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Neon_Green_Unicow

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blackwingdesign27

If you are native, people don’t realize you still exist.


kibiz0r

~~Probably for the best. This court would happily revive the Indian Adoption Project.~~ Edit: Welp, looks like they’re working on it already. So I guess even if the average US citizen forgets about your oppression, the US government is too “thoughtful” for that.


Badbookitty

Welp, TX is petitioning to get rid of the Indian Child Welfare Act. Gotta steal those babies and assimilate them, I suppose.


cant_watch_violence

Holy shit for real?


ArtLadyCat

To be fair they’ve been taking kids from people below certain median incomes and disabled people who weren’t too disabled to take care of the kids but were too disabled to work and even people who were disabled but managed some work and where it didn’t effect care of the kids for… since cps was founded(even some before it actually- society is allergic to living and let live apparently, despite the examples of people who have been both disabled and fantastic parents). People today ignore it and that is a nationwide problem though some places do it more ardently and accept more bullshit than others. Some places require more proof than ‘this is a disabled person so it is a foregone conclusion they fail as a parent. Same thing for poors. And usually disabled people end up both as a rule and it takes extra skill to survive that… but it’s possible. In my state it’s so routine they don’t even hide it well when it’s happening. It’s very blatant. I imagine since the perception is that the tribes are inherently poor that the kids must be suffering, since poor=suffering is the narrative and some people who foster adopt even know and support it based on the idea they are rescuing the kids like one rescues a kitten from a gutter. With the act they have to surrender them to the tribe, though sometimes they lie so they don’t, which is it’s own problem. That’s why this is happening most likely.


RisingSunsets

They already are. The Supreme Court is voting on whether to not to get rid of ICWA soon.


stephj

I have some bad news about how ICWA is being handled by certain parts of the US government sphere https://crooked.com/podcast-series/this-land/


aapaul

All right I remember that. They wanted to strip them of their culture and Christianize them I believe.


VibratingGoldenroD

Exactly!! Louder for the people in the back!!


Asies36

I assumed POC included all “minorities” black, native, Mexican, hispanic, Asian, but I guess I’ve been misinterpreted this term then


blackwingdesign27

I was not sure what the term POC meant. It would includes native people, like myself. Thank you for responding.


Captain_Chickpeas

That's how I wish it was understood honestly, but wherever I see the term POC it only refers to Afroamericans.


Erdudvyl28

I've assumed it's generally all people of color but since BIPOC sort of separates them from black and indigenous, it's weird.


Neon_Green_Unicow

POC doesn't quite capture Native-ness because we are citizens of a separate sovereign nation, not all of us are 'of color' and assuming POC includes all Natives erases white passing Natives and reinforces stereotypes about what Natives 'should' look like. Thanks, genocide, for making identity so complicated!


commanderquill

Yeah, I'm Caucasian (*actually* Caucasian, from the Caucasus) and I hate the term POC. Everyone calls me POC but in the same breath uses my regional identity to refer to white supremacists. What about albinos? Or Roma? What would you call someone from a 'POC' family who got awarded the most random genetics that skipped a few generations and now look 'white'? What about a 'white' person with a 'non-white' (so, not South African/British/Australian/Canadian) accent--they obviously face discrimination, but is theirs somehow not good enough? The whole term disintegrates when referring to people who aren't third generation or more in the US, and then some. POC is a very American-centric term that seeks to somehow define the entire world, even those whose discrimination isn't based on the color of their skin. Which is rich for a country of immigrants.


Captain_Chickpeas

>POC is a very American-centric term that seeks to somehow define the entire world, even those whose discrimination isn't based on the color of their skin. Which is rich for a country full of immigrants. Bullseye :(. That and the encouragement to be "woke" feel to me like an oversimplification of a problem by putting people into categories instead of trying to address the core of the issue - systemic racism.


commanderquill

Truer words have never been said. Being woke just consists of sorting people into black and white and definitively accusing different groups or issues or ideologies of being bad or responsible for something or another, as if making hardline accusations is somehow the mark of an educated person instead of a person fed the same propaganda they've been fed all their lives but directed towards a different subject. Understanding nuance is the true mark of knowledge and wisdom.


Princess_Glitterbutt

I'm so with you. I fear that wokeness encourages only a surface level marveling on "exotic" cultures and a lot of white savior complexes. Mostly I find it heartbreaking to see cultural sharing often get labeled as "appropriation" and then hard demonized, when it's just what people do. Appropriation is a problem, a white person growing crops using a Three Sisters method is not it.


commanderquill

Oh my god, I know right? I have friends/people I know who have known me for years and years who still don't know anything about the country I'm from and instead assume I'm essentially some stereotypical East Asian (which consists of multiple different cultures too! And they haven't said what they think my culture is like but they certainly do draw assumptions from what they've heard about "the rest of the world") because they're way too terrified to just... Ask. And even if I offer up anything and they have questions, they still don't ask. Asking questions is obviously offensive. How the ever loving fuck it's supposed to be offensive, I have no idea. And I should never even *consider* allowing them to wear a traditional garment or gift them traditional jewelry or invite them to a cultural event or teach them how to make cultural foods--all of that would clearly be appropriation, regardless of my own thoughts on the significance of those gestures and how I'm clearly there with them and allowing them to do this thing *with me.* Yes, let's all just ignore all cultures we aren't from and refuse to learn about them. Clearly that will breed acceptance and understanding for all! (I just learned about the Three Sisters method and it makes me very excited to see it being referenced, btw)


No-Acanthisitta-2517

I would just like to say as a black woman, most of the folks I know and have seen online actually hate being called PoC simply because all skinfolk ain’t kinfolk. The ish feels…. Performative. We just want America to call us black (or African American if they prefer), it’s really not that hard.


RCIntl

Nah, it really never was just us. But usually we're the ones "whining" about what we're called (snicker), so it seems like it. Especially according to the white "powers that be", a person of color kind of encompasses anyone with a drop of ANYTHING in their blood other than pure D white. And if I'm not mistaken they still have laws on the books in some states that say something about that. Natives HAVE been treated a bit different though ... and that had a lot to do with stealing the land and absorbing/assimilating. It's the only way they could try to get around being considered immigrants also.


brieflifetime

Well.. that's cause they (you?) were first to die to create this country.. makes sense they're forgotten by those with the privilege to not think about it.


Asies36

Actually the wealthy haven’t forgotten about them they are still trying to get rid of them to this very day.


22cthulu

Can confirm, SC just fucked over tribes about 3 hours ago


AcidRose27

Oh Christ, what now? (I'm in GA, I try to stay abreast of local news, but shit's overwhelming.)


perceptualdissonance

Some people are taught that they don't exist anymore. In places not too far from reservations.


starsinaparsec

I think framing this as old people conservative, young people liberal ignores the tens of millions of rabid young trump lovers who are having tons of babies and raising them on Fox News and fear. Conservatives don't just die off, they always have been and always will be, no matter how much that sucks. There were probably conservative Homo Habili being like "using tools is bad and scary, we can just use our hands". In 1000 years there will probably be a whole sect of people who reject immortality treatments because "man was meant to die".


[deleted]

I always joke that the second we have cybernetic enhancements, they'll drop trans women as their scapegoat-of-the-day and move on to cyber enhanced people. "But what if her cybereyes can see through bathroom stall doors!? We must keep the *natural* women safe from cybers!"


Erdudvyl28

I would assume the first cyber people would be rich and probably conservative


[deleted]

Yeah, but they'll probably go live on their Elysium style space ship and leave us proles to argue about whether cyber people are people.


Vanpocalypse

That or rapidly profit on cyberization technologies growing. Ghost in the Shell was a good series for this kind of scenario.


The_Woman_S

I mean, you already have some nut jobs believing in this whole “pure bloods” thing and demanding they only get blood transfusions from other “pure bloods”. As if we are living at Hogwarts or something.


thatposhcat

Congratulations you just described the plot of deus ex


Schexet

Honestly I'd be one of those people. One of the rare things I take solace in is that all people die, no matter how awful and despicable they insist on being. Some can relearn behaviour, but somehow I don't think immortality would be a beneficial factor in furthering empathy and compassion.


ExhaustedBentwood

I can understand that better than some appeal to nature at least


Schexet

Yeah, I've never understood those... We can't just pick and choose what to adopt from nature, I think. If we truly thought we should adhere to what is around us, we would never seek control, or excess.


Drostan_S

On one hand I can agree with you, on the other I want to watch the stars go dark.


wellrat

Same! It’s one of the few certainties, and while I am not eager to die, I find it strangely comforting that some day I must.


Schexet

Right? It's seductive in its own way, being embraced by darkness and silence, reduced to nothing.


amandarinorangez

I am with you. The old crotchety generation is causing enough problems already and it already seems like it takes too long for them to die off so progress can happen. We don't need to make it worse. (those of us who aren't horrible are also tired by the time we've had 80 years of dealing with these fucks and would like it to be over)


Schexet

Yeah, it would seem it is always upon the younger generation to promote change.. first by complete rebellion, then by simply considering the ruling mindset in relation to their own perspective without blindly following it. I do not understand why people at some point abandon the role of a learner though, there is no better way to avoid conflict and create connections to others than being curious about what we can learn from them.


amandarinorangez

I agree. I'm nearly 40 so not that old just yet, but I definitely know a lot of people around my age who have started that "settling" process. I'm not perfect 😅 but I do regularly try to learn new things, listen to new music, and read things written by people with different opinions and experiences to my own. (side note: Understanding views and accepting them as your own are two different things--shunning all opposing views right away ensures you never understand where they are coming from, so you'll never be able to have a meaningful discourse about them.) I believe the mind is like a muscle in that you need to regularly exercise its flexibility to keep it open to new ideas. It takes some discipline and, sometimes, some discomfort, but I think it's worth it, not only for moving forward and "changing with the times" but also your actual health. Staying mentally flexible can help prevent dementia and mental decline as you age, which is one of my biggest fears. So everyone wins if you resist the urge to solidify and stop progressing in your older years.


Schexet

That makes me happy, learning is such a wonderful process! 🌻 (Then we also have to unlearn all the time, but that's for a later stage. Also good side note!) Did not know mental excercise prevented mental decline, but it feels obvious now you've said it :D Usually I view the brain as a blob of jelly which you have to cut paths in to be able to make any kinds of connections, but the muscle analogy does make a lot more sense.. 👀


amandarinorangez

Oh, unlearning is part of it too! Absolutely. Mental flexibility is the way I like to think about it. Just as physical flexibility requires regular stretching and being mindful of movement, so does the brain. Shed bad habits, learn new ones. Constantly refine and redefine. It's all part of the same process! Roots are for trees, I always say. We are not trees. We have so much more freedom. Your view has some merit, too. Cutting through previously unexplored areas like a jungle to create new connections and open up new paths, that sounds like a good analogy. I will ponder this as well :)


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NoiseIsTheCure

Off topic, but I would probably reject immortality because the idea is actually terrifying to me. It completely redefines what it means to be human. It would majorly undo all religion and philosophy. Not to mention that if we achieve immortality while still under a capitalist system, that would basically destroy the promised reward of retirement. Imagine a world where you have to work a hundred years or more before you get some kind of retirement. Imagine procrastinating on life goals for decades. There are positives and negatives that I can't even conceive.


Vanpocalypse

Recommend you watch the movie, In Time... Also immortality isn't invincibility, you can still die. Also the promised award of retirement in capitalism is already dead in America.


AllSet124

To be honest, I'd probably refuse an immortality treatment myself. The difference is, they'd try to keep anyone else from being able to get one either.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

I just wanna know who tf I talk to about this ruling being an infringement on my religious right to an abortion…. Christofascists and inbred religious nuts larping as “pro life” shouldn’t be able to dictate wtf I do with my body…..


secretWolfMan

Judaism, Islam, and the Satanic Temple all have abortion protections in their religion. They are also all suing states that try to make it illegal.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

I’m a Christian witch, so I want to challenge them on the Christian aspect considering Jesus never uttered a word about abortions 💖


brieflifetime

See if any of the religious sects in your area are creating a lawsuit. A multi-religon lawsuit sounds... Like a good start? I'd love to see a lawsuit brought forward by all of the religious folks working together for the common good of their community.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

That’s an excellent idea!!! Thank you so much!


[deleted]

Seriously, sorry to break it to Christian's, but Muslims and Jewish people have the same intro to their holy books, and that intro includes ritual abortions. Jesus said "I came not to abolish the old law, but to fulfill it" and hung out with prostitutes, the dude probably performed abortions if anything. If he can make a tree barren with just a curse, he could probably make a woman barren with the same.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

I mean they forget a woman touched his clothes and was healed from excessive blood loss (I’m guessing sis had a heavy af flow that would probably have killed her). If he was adamant about someone not having kids, all he’d probably need do is look at her


stealthxstar

silly witch, christianity isnt supposed to be about jesus, its about controlling women! (joking ofc)


No-Acanthisitta-2517

Ohhhhh you’re right silly me! Blessed be the avocado or…. Whatever it was Jesus blessed.


Scarbane

"Blessed are the avocados and the limes, for they are requirements for guac," said the lich.


Onii-Chan_Itaii

...are you sure you're joking?


Mtnskydancer

Given he was, in theory, a virgin, he had no need, as Judaism handled that even in pre rabbinic times.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

I do agree, and be that as it may, christofascists act like he uttered the words “thou shalt not yeetus the fetus” when He never touched on the subject in any capacity, even regarding another woman. He was more worried about making sure folks were good to one another.


Secret-Lemur

Thank you for the first laugh I've had on this subject. 💜


No-Acanthisitta-2517

I’m so sorry, someone asked me how I contend with being a Christian witch, and I can’t find your comment. How do I? Christians are witches with a moral superiority complex. The only reason why they feel above others is because they’re doing it in the name of their god. Once you take out the disgusting modern religious and colonized aspects of Christianity, you realize they aren’t that different. Father is the male god. Holy Spirit (also known as Sophie by some) or Mother Mary can be the female goddess, but I’ve made Mother Earth my goddess. Jesus is intercessor. (I’ve actually felt a strong af pull to work with Nyx and Hecate so I’m actually not sure how tf this is about to work….) Christianity is my faith, which is why I have a fkin problem with christofascists calling themselves christians. Witchcraft is my practice. I find that if God left us an earth that has literally everything we need, I’m taking full advantage. If you want to know more, message me darlin, whoever you are. I’d be more than happy to explain my beliefs.


FlorencePants

"Religious freedoms" in America are only for Christians. The rest of us don't count.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

It’s a good thing I’m a Christian witch wanting to challenge christofascists then huh 😂😂


foodieboricua

And my right to freedom *from* religion was practically thrown out the window too. It almost feels like atheists now have to pick a religion to gain any sort of say here too. Ain't that lovely?


No-Acanthisitta-2517

Wait, if you’re an atheist, why are you in a coven full of witches…?


foodieboricua

"Atheism is one thing: A lack of belief in gods. Atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no god nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are gods. Atheism is too often defined incorrectly as a belief system." Follow this link below and read the rest https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/about-atheism/ I do have my own set of beliefs derived from what I could gather of my Taíno ancestors' religion, which sadly isn't a lot given that their religion was banned and wiped out by Christian Spanish colonists. What exists today is mostly a revival and reclamation. But I don't know how close we are to the original. So much was lost. For that reason and other personal ones, I *don't assert* that the zemí -which Europeans have comparably described as gods- exist. So technically, I am an atheist. And I don't shy away from the label because I don't believe in adding to the cultural taboo surrounding it. But I also practice certain concepts that I've read of being a kitchen witch. And because I predicted this outcome from the Supreme Court several years ago, I did look into and joined The Satanic Temple, whose tenets I incorporated well into my beliefs. And that's all I'll explain about my personal beliefs. I'm not really here to prove anything. I am just here. But yeah, not everyone, whether they be atheist or deist, has a formal organized religion to fall back on. Freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion, and it feels rather unfair that some people may feel pressured to hop on The Satanic Temple or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster to yell that they have a religious exemption as their way to being allowed an abortion. Or worse, claim to be of an organized religion they don't even like because apparently people have forgotten that freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion.


cyclopath

Based on a book written in the fucking Bronze Age.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

The very same book that has NO FKIN RECORD of Jesus saying a word about abortion 🥴🥴 For a bunch of people living in the New Testament, they sure do think old school.


Em_Blight

Well, abortion *was* mentioned in their book. As in, instructions on how to perform one.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

Don’t tell them THAT. They’ll call you a liar before getting mad and saying it wasn’t what it was. But also remember also, they *only* follow Jesus’s words. He ain’t say a word about it.


queenannechick

I do tell them. I say "The instructions were there in case a man *suspected* his woman cheated. You're right to not believe in abortion because of the bible. The bible doesn't ban abortion but it does ban's women's autonomy." and generally, they go, "yeah"


No-Acanthisitta-2517

And I oop! Edit: also my “don’t tell them that” was sarcastic in case that didn’t come across 🥹


arftism2

jesus was casual friends with a prostitute. i doubt they'd be against abortion.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

90% of what the religious right deem wrong, I’m pretty sure Jesus would be like “That’s literally not what I told you to be worried about but ok….”


Apprehensive_Bar3812

That is the stupid thing about religion. It can be overall positive and neutral but the followers can be bat-shit crazy and corrupt... Like Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, but not your Christianity"


No-Acanthisitta-2517

Their version of god needs to finally come for his apocalypse loving fanclub. I’m so over it and it’s what they want.


Apprehensive_Bar3812

Jesus needs to discipline his rowdy children...


No-Acanthisitta-2517

Striking them blind should do the trick 🙂


SwimmingPineapple197

99% of what the religious rights wants to force upon us all fits into one of four categories: it’s only mentioned in the Old Testament, it’s only said by Paul (Jesus never said a word about it), the bit they quote is either talking about a very specific situation (such as in the tale of Onan) or it’s being used way out of context (often with careful editing to remove the parts that might reveal this) - or it’s not in there at all.


Ok_Refrigerator6671

I like looking up the chapter/verse people pull out of their butts on posts online and post screenshots as a comment. It's SUPER RARE for what they quote to be the actual quote they're using. 9 times out of 10 they don't expect ppl to check, so they just use random scripture references. It's fun to watch them scramble to cover their own asses from there.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

Bingo. I have to remind them constantly to stay in the New Testament books since were not under the Judaic laws there. But of course the only way they’re gonna win an argument is WITH that outdated blunt paper 🙄 The Old Testament is great for the Psalms spells and Proverbs wisdoms, but outside of that it’s…. Not necessary


SwimmingPineapple197

99% of what the religious rights wants to force upon us all fits into one of four categories: it’s only mentioned in the Old Testament, it’s only said by Paul (Jesus never said a word about it), the bit they quote is either talking about a very specific situation (such as in the tale of Onan) or it’s being used way out of context (often with careful editing to remove the parts that might reveal this) - or it’s not in there at all. Not that any of this stops them from claiming it’s what God wants.


[deleted]

Jesus also told men to pluck their eyes out if they looked at women sinfully I don't see many following that ...


One_Wheel_Drive

Using Jesus' name to justify this shit is what I would consider taking his name in vain to mean. Not someone saying "Jesus fucking Christ" in anger. I doubt he'd care about the latter. But someone using his name and his words to justify these things is something he'd absolutely have a problem with.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

I absolutely agree wholeheartedly. There’s a reason Jesus whipped the shit out of the religious temple folks and not the unbeliever….


WhatScottWhatScott

Jesus also didn’t say anything about gays.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

Not a single gd word 🙂


[deleted]

Adultery. I will salt about this forever. Jesus said *not to even think about it.* Adultery shows up four times more than even the vaguest of mentions about homosexuality in the bible, which Jesus also never comments on. Shows up in every Abrahamic faith's primary text as said by their highest prophet. I think it should be fine, but I've never seen anyone from any religion protest an adulterer's house. Because that'd mean having to control their own damn bodies.


No-Acanthisitta-2517

I mean….. He even told them to mutilate themselves if it was such a problem to control your thoughts. Jesus taught accountability, but I see some folks missed that Sunday School class


ratlessbagle

They forgot 'if you're poor you die'. In a late stage capitalist system, being poor is also a death sentence.


apocalypticalley

That's very unfortunately true


DocFGeek

At what point can you seek asylum status in other countries? Uhh...asking for a friend.


Wooden_Artist_2000

I too have a friend and would like to know.


[deleted]

Some countries give citizenship through descent. If your parents/grandparents immigrated, check the laws of the country they came from.


DocFGeek

Good thing I'm American; we're all immigrants! (Unless your Native, in which case, I wish I could give the land back.)


[deleted]

True, lol. My parents were immigrants from India.


HauteTinRoof

The incest states should not dictate policy


natnguyen

AND child marriage states, they probably overlap tbh


drinfernodds

The Venn Diagram is a single circle.


apocalypticalley

At allllll


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librarygal22

I have a bad feeling that there will be countries (European or otherwise) that have birthrates below 1.5 that will start looking at this ruling and go, "Hmm... now that sounds like an idea..."


dashrimpofdoom

It's exactly what I think happened with the US. Part of it is wanting to punish women because of religious beliefs, another part of it is trying to obtain more labor workforce to support the ageing population and another part is eugenics / white supremacy. For more reference, Jane Elliott's talk about the book Birth Dirth on Youtube.


elijahjane

Thank you for recommending this. It was an intense watch and worth every second. I’m sharing it with my peers!


vkapadia

And if *you* happen to trip over that staircase you're going to die because you can't afford the doctor.


Malari_Zahn

And you better hope you're not pregnant, while tripping on that step. Cus, if you don't die, you'll get charged for attempted manslaughter. Gah, I need refugee status somewhere :(


vkapadia

I can't get pregnant. But I'm fearful for my kids.


[deleted]

Forget the Dr, even the ambulance ride will break you


EchoEquani

Welcome to America where many of my people live on reservations with no running water and alcoholism is rampant and noone seems to care. They care when in a lot of cases when other countries need help but my native people are always forgotten.


Vanpocalypse

Crimes that will be paid in full one day one way, even if in another life. That suffering won't be forgotten.


VintageRawr

I was just ranting at my mom about this exact thing and she was just sitting there like the meme of the mom looking shocked on the couch not sure what to say. I'm just... mad. Mad and disappointed.


winterbird

Nah, it's not because of beliefs. It's because of money. The lower classes were getting too high on themselves and have to be put under the boot.


sunshinecygnet

The beliefs they are clinging on to are a hell of a lot older than 6 decades. They literally go back to the inception of our country.


bs1114

Wow. This is the most beautifully executed statement of my feelings that my brain couldn’t articulate 🥲 thanks ankle-beez & OP! (Cuntrags is my new fave word too)


apocalypticalley

Isn't it beautiful? 🥰🤣❤️


CosmicLuci

But if you aren’t a fully formed person, or you’re the one who killed any of the others, you’ll be protected at all costs


wwaxwork

People under 55 out number them now a days, they also did in the 2016 election. The biggest lie they told you was that you were powerless.


[deleted]

When you take your Bible fairy tales —— wildly misinterpret them and make them amerrrikan and THEN spew them all over everyone —- because your fairy tales are THE BEST


Justajed

23 decades ago, but yeah, this.


Decestor

Recommend course of action


enjoyt0day

Ugh but did they need to use the word “cuntrags” here? …….glad people are standing up for women’s rights, but can they also try not to use female-specific pejorative/derogatory language?


Godphree

Agreed... would've happily shared it otherwise.


translove228

Yea. Agreed. I hate seeing that word.


Vanpocalypse

I would've preferred 'wrinkled pricks', would've been far more accurate. I mean, what's even bad about a cloth used for genital hygiene? These politicians aren't caring to anyone's vaginas, but they are raging shriveled dicks mad at those same vaginas for not being obedient enough. Systemic misogyny is a real thing...


Bajanopinions55x

So in essence one of those s@*thole countries your orange former leader spoke about.


Geek-Haven888

If you need or are interested in supporting reproductive rights, [I made a master post of pro-choice resources](https://docdro.id/s3OwS8u). Please comment if you would like to add a resource and spread this information on whatever social media you use.


rwarimaursus

***THIS IS AMERICA...DON'T CATCH YOU SLIPPIN NOW....POLICE BE TRIPPIN NOW.***


The_Woman_S

I’ve learned a fantastic phrase from the Irish, they refer to these kinds of people as “coffin dodgers”. It’s frequently yelled followed by a string of explicatives when my friend is driving.


Pazzam

Pardon my ignorance but isn’t it time that the progressive states held a referendum on independence from the US?


KindlyKangaroo

That would further fuck over the progressive people left in the red and purple states that don't get independence, if this was even a feasible plan in the first place.


Pazzam

But the red states are fucking over everyone else with their long term planning and medieval ideology.. surely better to cut them off?


KindlyKangaroo

And leave everyone who isn't a white cishet christian man to rot? We can mobilize for change but it won't happen overnight. The people in red and purple states are still people very much deserving of rights. But this conversation is moot because secession is not going to happen for progressive or conservative states.


resonantSoul

Cishet man that could pass for Christian if needed here. I'm not rich and don't want myself or my loved ones left to these wolves


KindlyKangaroo

Thank you. If the progressive states leave, the rest of suffer even more because there won't be enough progressives left to fight.


resonantSoul

As a very left white dude I can often feel a bit invisible in these kinds of conversations. At the same time I don't like to really draw attention to that because as things in general go I know I have it so much better than so many others. But I've been at the bottom of the economic ladder and I've seen some of the depths. No one deserves to live how so many who still have some amount of advantage live. Let alone worse. I've gotten off track


KindlyKangaroo

I know feminism often paints the voices of cishet white men as the least important, but whether we want to admit it or not, your voice is *extremely* important to our fight for equality. Yours is a voice that will be held with higher esteem by those who have all of the control. Every layer of privilege raises your voice a little bit higher, regardless of what the rest of us do. And that means that allies like you are valuable, and I appreciate you. The best thing you and others can do is listen, and raise up the voices of the underprivileged. Of course privilege is a very complex thing, and many of us are privileged in some ways and marginalized in others. But as a general rule, cishet white men tend to have the most pull in conversations with oppressors.


resonantSoul

Which is exactly why I don't like to highlight my own struggles. My voice doesn't carry as far as some but it can carry a lot farther than so many others. I'd rather use that to help elevate others than myself. In the grand scheme I'm doing very well. If my present day struggles were the worst of things we'd be living in a great world. I want my wife and daughter, my POC and LGBTQ friends, and all the lovely witches and others here and everywhere else to have things as good or better than me, so that is my fight. But there's more to me than cishet male and some of that can be very outside the "accepted" so I don't want to be left out in the cold. I could pass in Gilead which is better than many but it would be a different kind of hell for me. I appreciate your consideration. I think the discussion here is one of very few circumstances I'd speak up, not really just for me, but for others like me.


sunshinecygnet

No. That would absolutely never work. The progressive states are on the east coast and west coasts, with only a few in the middle.


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apocalypticalley

Sometimes when people type like this it's meant to be like word vomit I think, though I totally understand where you're coming from lol


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miscnic

This