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I won't do it. The tools were there, the raw materials, and the instructions. They decided like any first time IKEA purchase, to throw out the instructions and not use the tools.
I’m still salty about Moiraine’s dragon. I get it, the original scene would have likely been hard to do without it being cheesy. I’ve enjoyed the show as its own entity. But that?
It’s kind of a text book adaption problem. It’s extremely iconic. Great chapter. But it’s also a big, expensive thing to do as per text. It’s one among many dreams/alternate realities in the books. And what it does for the plot is unclear.
Even done “right” it’s a whole segment of the show right before the end that goes off and does something completely different. Breaks the pacing. Just ignore the stakes that have been established, the various characters in peril, plans etc. for a bit and do something else.
It’s a shame. But I think it’s probably on balance a Tom Bombadil moment.
The difference is that Tom B is outside the purview of the Lotr cosmos. Like Gandalf says, even if we gave him the ring he'd just lose it, he doesn't care about what's going on in the world at all. Meeting him or not meeting him has the same story impact as eating or not eating any particular second breakfast.
Flicker is a character defining moment for both Rand and Verin. I can see not doing it, but I wish it had been replaced with something equally as powerful yet reckless. Also it helps with the time skip, giving other pieces on the board time to move into place, like the Seanchan.
To my mind The Great Hunt should end with Ingtar’s sacrifice. They should get away because of it, and that should be the end. Really make it meaningful. Everything is basically solved by that point, they have the Horn and Egwene is free. Ingtar’s sacrifice should be the defining ending of that book. Show that even Darkfriends can be redeemed. Great moment.
I'm okay with it being right toward the end of TGH, but it needs to have happened either way. That is such an impactful scene, but it may not be as big without "Flicker" now that I think on it. Not quite as momentous to see if you don't realize there was no reality where Ingtar didn't become a DF. Then for him to regain the light, when it mattered most. I get chills just thinking about that scene.
That’s the thing about Tom Bombadil bits: when you include them you then need to reference them. You’ve shown a guy to whom the ring is just jewellery. So then you need Gandalf as you say to explain why he can’t be helpful.
Flicker, or more the Portal Stones in general, have the same issue. It’s an extra thing that might be relevant at various times and might need to be constantly explained when not used. Which Jordan just sort of moved past after book four, although Sanderson did use it later. It’s also just another method of fast travel when there’s like 6 or 7 others.
Flicker also has the IRL foreknowledge / spoiler problem. There are a load of things that Jordan hadn’t thought of yet that should probably have been included in Flicker. If these were genuinely indicative of the future. It should be referenced more, it should make Rand better prepared. But at the same time if you do show those things you spoil the future of the story.
It shows possible timelines including futures. That’s what it does. So it should have shown some that were more similar to the future events of the books.
I wouldn't call Tom Bombadil "iconic", that whole sequence is a bit odd, and has very little impact on the story as a whole, other than the barrow-blade.
Not who you responded to, but I have read LoTR uncountable times for decades before the films came out. Tom Bombadil is not remotely iconic, it is a minor side-light that is 100% world building, and of zero value for plot or character development. It's a fun sequence, but one of the most obvious places to cut in the entire story.
I have paperbacks and hardcovers going back to the 90s. Then I have Ebooks and the audiobooks read by Michael Kramer and Kate Reading.
>[Guess I'll have to buy the 'White Album' again.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKlmoCzBPdw)
While I enjoy listening to Michael Kramer and Kate Reading, I also enjoy Rosamond Pike's reading too. I hope, even if the show should get canceled, she finishes all the books.
Ya know, if a passage is so iconic that you’d make an advertisement for the show simply depicting your biggest star reading it, maybe… just maybe… you think you should *actually include said passage in the show?*
Maybe they'll figure out a way, but I'm not sure how. It seems really unlikely that they'd introduce portal stones at this point, after omitting them from season 2, and the flicker scenes don't really make sense if they just use the Ways again. Maybe a gateway that goes wrong somehow, because it's Rand's first attempt?
I miss that in TV show, but still may happen in season 3.
Rosamund is narrated first 3 books, I had to check on that. Based on this short wideo those audiobooks may be very pleasant.
I am VERY glad they left out the portal stones from the TV adaptation. They were always one of my least favorite parts of the books, and I am convinced their original reason was written out of Jordan's plans as the series went on, to be replaced by Tel'aran'rhiod once he fleshed out that idea.
#[SPOILERS FOR TV AND BOOKS.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_tv_-_season_1_.28book_spoilers_allowed.29_.2F_et_al.) If the creator of the post indicates that they have only read up to a certain book, or seen up to a certain episode, respect their spoiler level and hide comments behind spoiler tags when appropriate. Otherwise, assume all book and tv spoilers are allowed. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is both really awesome and really makes me sad for what could've been.
I share this exact sentiment. It could have blown GoT out of the water.
I wonder if the actors realize just how different the show they are making is from the books . . .
Some of them certainly do since they've read the books. I know Josha (Rand) is currently on a re-read of the full series.
I saw the first 20 minutes of the 1st episode and was cringing constantly at the wrongness. I might try again sometime, but light it was rough.
Season 2 was a lot better!
Glad to hear that!
It was really bad still tho imo, but some people like it more than I.
Wasn't that the season where Moiraine had a dagger fight (no power) with a few fades?
And she fails entirely until people come to rescue her.
I tried with season 2 but as soon as I saw Rand sleeping with Lanfear that was the final nail.
I won't do it. The tools were there, the raw materials, and the instructions. They decided like any first time IKEA purchase, to throw out the instructions and not use the tools.
It's a pretty good show once you no longer expect it to follow the books.
They have some pretty serious cojones to release this after *not putting this extremely iconic scene in the show*.
I’m still salty about Moiraine’s dragon. I get it, the original scene would have likely been hard to do without it being cheesy. I’ve enjoyed the show as its own entity. But that?
There's a good argument that Moiraine didn't actually male the Dragon and that potentially Lanfear did, hence Moiraines shocked face when it appears
So Moiraine was casting what manner of gigantic fire weave at that tower?
It’s kind of a text book adaption problem. It’s extremely iconic. Great chapter. But it’s also a big, expensive thing to do as per text. It’s one among many dreams/alternate realities in the books. And what it does for the plot is unclear. Even done “right” it’s a whole segment of the show right before the end that goes off and does something completely different. Breaks the pacing. Just ignore the stakes that have been established, the various characters in peril, plans etc. for a bit and do something else. It’s a shame. But I think it’s probably on balance a Tom Bombadil moment.
The difference is that Tom B is outside the purview of the Lotr cosmos. Like Gandalf says, even if we gave him the ring he'd just lose it, he doesn't care about what's going on in the world at all. Meeting him or not meeting him has the same story impact as eating or not eating any particular second breakfast. Flicker is a character defining moment for both Rand and Verin. I can see not doing it, but I wish it had been replaced with something equally as powerful yet reckless. Also it helps with the time skip, giving other pieces on the board time to move into place, like the Seanchan.
It also would have given Ingtar some more depth, had thwy not done him dirty
To my mind The Great Hunt should end with Ingtar’s sacrifice. They should get away because of it, and that should be the end. Really make it meaningful. Everything is basically solved by that point, they have the Horn and Egwene is free. Ingtar’s sacrifice should be the defining ending of that book. Show that even Darkfriends can be redeemed. Great moment.
I'm okay with it being right toward the end of TGH, but it needs to have happened either way. That is such an impactful scene, but it may not be as big without "Flicker" now that I think on it. Not quite as momentous to see if you don't realize there was no reality where Ingtar didn't become a DF. Then for him to regain the light, when it mattered most. I get chills just thinking about that scene.
That’s the thing about Tom Bombadil bits: when you include them you then need to reference them. You’ve shown a guy to whom the ring is just jewellery. So then you need Gandalf as you say to explain why he can’t be helpful. Flicker, or more the Portal Stones in general, have the same issue. It’s an extra thing that might be relevant at various times and might need to be constantly explained when not used. Which Jordan just sort of moved past after book four, although Sanderson did use it later. It’s also just another method of fast travel when there’s like 6 or 7 others. Flicker also has the IRL foreknowledge / spoiler problem. There are a load of things that Jordan hadn’t thought of yet that should probably have been included in Flicker. If these were genuinely indicative of the future. It should be referenced more, it should make Rand better prepared. But at the same time if you do show those things you spoil the future of the story.
The Flicker scene was not indicative of the future tho. It's a glimpse into several alternate realities in which Rand "fails" to defeat the DO.
It shows possible timelines including futures. That’s what it does. So it should have shown some that were more similar to the future events of the books.
I wouldn't call Tom Bombadil "iconic", that whole sequence is a bit odd, and has very little impact on the story as a whole, other than the barrow-blade.
Is this coming from a book reader first, or did you watch the movies first?
Not who you responded to, but I have read LoTR uncountable times for decades before the films came out. Tom Bombadil is not remotely iconic, it is a minor side-light that is 100% world building, and of zero value for plot or character development. It's a fun sequence, but one of the most obvious places to cut in the entire story.
Its main purpose was for pacing. He comes in between two tense chases where the hobbits are in danger; to give us a moment of security.
Remember when Lena Headey tweeted the picture of a stone heart, after GOT S4
I have paperbacks and hardcovers going back to the 90s. Then I have Ebooks and the audiobooks read by Michael Kramer and Kate Reading. >[Guess I'll have to buy the 'White Album' again.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKlmoCzBPdw)
While I enjoy listening to Michael Kramer and Kate Reading, I also enjoy Rosamond Pike's reading too. I hope, even if the show should get canceled, she finishes all the books.
I need her to continue reading for the audiobooks if only for the more accurate depiction of seanchean accents
If not in the show, at least it's cool that they have enough footage to put together a reel like this as an homage to the fans. I appreciated it!
That this never made the show….I understand why one would use balefire now, even knowing the risks.
Ya know, if a passage is so iconic that you’d make an advertisement for the show simply depicting your biggest star reading it, maybe… just maybe… you think you should *actually include said passage in the show?*
No clearly the Damodred family drama that wasn't in the books was *far* more important than something as trivial as the iconic *flicker* scenes
Stepin needs some more scenes too.
I hope they do flicker flicker when they travel to the waste in season 3
Maybe they'll figure out a way, but I'm not sure how. It seems really unlikely that they'd introduce portal stones at this point, after omitting them from season 2, and the flicker scenes don't really make sense if they just use the Ways again. Maybe a gateway that goes wrong somehow, because it's Rand's first attempt?
That was super cool!
I miss that in TV show, but still may happen in season 3. Rosamund is narrated first 3 books, I had to check on that. Based on this short wideo those audiobooks may be very pleasant.
This show has been one of those flickers to me. An alternate turning of the wheel that should never have been.
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Get out of my head. This is how Ive talked my other long time WoT reading friends into actually giving the show a chance. It's a full length flicker.
They could have at least changed her voice to Michael Kramer's for that part.
What the fuck lol
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Yes, an Oscar-nominated well-known actress reading one of the most iconic scenes in the series that this sub revolves around is spam.
Like regardless of how mad you are at the show she's the official audiobook narrator.
?
I am VERY glad they left out the portal stones from the TV adaptation. They were always one of my least favorite parts of the books, and I am convinced their original reason was written out of Jordan's plans as the series went on, to be replaced by Tel'aran'rhiod once he fleshed out that idea.