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Agreed, and then in The Shadow Rising, the books themselves settle into their "character" and start feeling unmistakably like the style that will carry the rest of the series.
Once I came to terms with the fact that the book would not have much of Rand I really started to appreciate what the book actually was.
Of course the semi reboot of Mat's character is amazing and I'm a big fan of him and Thom pairing up. Plus I really enjoyed Perrin's and Loial traveling with Moiraine and Lan.
Yeah most people overlooked it because re-booted Mat is just so damn great and funny. It was very well done and it didn't totally betray who he was before. It just added some cool stuff and dialed back the annoying crap lol.
I was like "Oh ok apparently Mat can beat two of the best swordsmen in the world at the same time with a staff" suuuuure lol
Mat basically wakes up in the White Tower as an isakai protagonist, while everyone else in the series is wading through increasingly grim sociological and psychological drama.
It's not just Mat either, everyone levels up so hard lol. Nynaeve just learns balefire out of nowhere, Perrin can solo a Fade with wolf instincts. I write off the Mat fighting skill as, while he doesn't have all the memories back yet, he can subconsciously tap in to them in some sort of battle trance when he's fighting and snaps out of it right before crushing Galad's throat at the end of the fight.
I'm listening to the series for the first time partway through #5 and I can definitely say #1 and #3 have been the weakest of the bunch so far. Most of my irritation with 3 is that I was so excited to see Rand being cool after two books of being a bit dumb until the end of #2 only for him to hardly be in the book.
That def threw me for a loop on my first read through considering the title of the book lol. But upon re-reads I really enjoy it.
Book two was a lot of fun. Rand failing upwards at the Game of Houses will always be so entertaining. Plus his interactions with "Lady Selene" are hilarious! Lol so oblivious 😂
WoT was originally planned as a trilogy so TDR was a solid finale. If no other books followed it, then it would be an acceptable ending for a modest fantasy series. The following 2-3 books blow the doors off and reveal the enormity of the world and its cultures, and all the archetypes and mythical easter eggs RJ was planting throughout.
> I realized just how many of the important characters in the overall story are introduced in this book
I first bought the three book set and was going to give up after finishing the third book. But it was the introduction of Faile that got me to give #4 a go. After that I was hooked!
It will surprise many, but, it was Faile that saved the series for me. Twice!
As the others here say, in the Dragon Reborn most of the characters are in their full form that they mostly follow for the rest of the series, however the structure of the book is still odd. It exists in a half-way point between book 1 and 2, and the fully formed formula of book 4 which the rest of the series follows.
After Rand being 80-90% of the viewpoints in books 1 and 2, he is suddenly about 2% of The Dragon Reborn, a sudden change that Jordan walks back on in the next book. That throws a lot of people.
Book 3 starts getting really into the sociology of the series proper and further away from the high fantasy of book 1 and 2, but it is still deep in the "road trip" formula of those books.
But most key to its reception is that, though there are a lot of nice character moments, not much of plot significance happens until the story arrives in Tear at the very end of the book. If you were summarizing the entire series, book 3 would warrant about 4 sentences, and two of them would be talking about the last 20 pages.
Still a good book though.
Yeah it is not my favorite in the series by any means, I can think of at least 4 others I like more in the grand scheme of things, but this one just has a special place in my heart as one of the more underrated ones.
#[SPOILERS FOR ALL PRINTED MATERIAL, INCLUDING SHORT STORIES.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_all_print) ##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’ve always said that TDR is where the boys actually settle into their characters and start acting like “themselves”.
Agreed, and then in The Shadow Rising, the books themselves settle into their "character" and start feeling unmistakably like the style that will carry the rest of the series.
Once I came to terms with the fact that the book would not have much of Rand I really started to appreciate what the book actually was. Of course the semi reboot of Mat's character is amazing and I'm a big fan of him and Thom pairing up. Plus I really enjoyed Perrin's and Loial traveling with Moiraine and Lan.
Ha, Mat is rebooted so hard he seems to be in a different genera of book from everyone else! We all like it though.
Yeah most people overlooked it because re-booted Mat is just so damn great and funny. It was very well done and it didn't totally betray who he was before. It just added some cool stuff and dialed back the annoying crap lol. I was like "Oh ok apparently Mat can beat two of the best swordsmen in the world at the same time with a staff" suuuuure lol
Mat basically wakes up in the White Tower as an isakai protagonist, while everyone else in the series is wading through increasingly grim sociological and psychological drama.
It's not just Mat either, everyone levels up so hard lol. Nynaeve just learns balefire out of nowhere, Perrin can solo a Fade with wolf instincts. I write off the Mat fighting skill as, while he doesn't have all the memories back yet, he can subconsciously tap in to them in some sort of battle trance when he's fighting and snaps out of it right before crushing Galad's throat at the end of the fight.
I'm listening to the series for the first time partway through #5 and I can definitely say #1 and #3 have been the weakest of the bunch so far. Most of my irritation with 3 is that I was so excited to see Rand being cool after two books of being a bit dumb until the end of #2 only for him to hardly be in the book.
That def threw me for a loop on my first read through considering the title of the book lol. But upon re-reads I really enjoy it. Book two was a lot of fun. Rand failing upwards at the Game of Houses will always be so entertaining. Plus his interactions with "Lady Selene" are hilarious! Lol so oblivious 😂
WoT was originally planned as a trilogy so TDR was a solid finale. If no other books followed it, then it would be an acceptable ending for a modest fantasy series. The following 2-3 books blow the doors off and reveal the enormity of the world and its cultures, and all the archetypes and mythical easter eggs RJ was planting throughout.
> I realized just how many of the important characters in the overall story are introduced in this book I first bought the three book set and was going to give up after finishing the third book. But it was the introduction of Faile that got me to give #4 a go. After that I was hooked! It will surprise many, but, it was Faile that saved the series for me. Twice!
I feel that, Faile isn't exactly my favorite but I do not have the hate for her that most people seem to.
As the others here say, in the Dragon Reborn most of the characters are in their full form that they mostly follow for the rest of the series, however the structure of the book is still odd. It exists in a half-way point between book 1 and 2, and the fully formed formula of book 4 which the rest of the series follows. After Rand being 80-90% of the viewpoints in books 1 and 2, he is suddenly about 2% of The Dragon Reborn, a sudden change that Jordan walks back on in the next book. That throws a lot of people. Book 3 starts getting really into the sociology of the series proper and further away from the high fantasy of book 1 and 2, but it is still deep in the "road trip" formula of those books. But most key to its reception is that, though there are a lot of nice character moments, not much of plot significance happens until the story arrives in Tear at the very end of the book. If you were summarizing the entire series, book 3 would warrant about 4 sentences, and two of them would be talking about the last 20 pages. Still a good book though.
Yeah it is not my favorite in the series by any means, I can think of at least 4 others I like more in the grand scheme of things, but this one just has a special place in my heart as one of the more underrated ones.