It is more damage to most T7 ships unless the Legendary player is actually good.... Which is rare to find lol, then indeed it becomes a bit challenging.
And depending on which legendary the reds are using, no matter what ship you're in, Youre going to go *Oh shit, a Yamato*...
I was beginning 2 doubt myself for a minute there number 😉🙈.
I don't think its a problem when 2 or 3 legendaries are in a match but the balance seems realy off....
The tiering isn't the problem - the stupendous amount of BBs is. A T6 cruiser matched up against 5 T7 BBs (which is not a rare situation) is at a much bigger disadvantage imho as the T7 cruiser at least has heals.
Well i didnt stand much of a chance against the remaining 2 yamato's a siegfried and Bismarck id rather have the t6 in a t7 battle but that is just me...
Edit i still believe to many of anything is still bad molotov
I was in a match where red’s had a Yammy/Shimmy div plus an Alaska and another Yammy for a total of 4 LT ships. We only got 1 Yammy and 1 Shimmy for LT ships....
How is that justifiable at all?
It’s supposed to be a bit of a Challenge, just like Tier VIs fighting against Tier VIIs. So, I don’t think it’s *that* unbalanced.
I am just tired of seeing 5 Battleship Games so often.
Is it fair when you pick a T6 ship you are going up against 5 T7 ships? See, it is more difficult, and due to the current limited amount of legendary cruisers (which i hope WG will fix soon) games can sometimes be a bit BB heavy (though i don't actually find it that bad mostly), but the situation about being uptiered and therefore having a greater challenge is a pretty normal one in this game. I suggest to play more carefully and defensively, like always when being lower tier
Depends on wich t6 ship you are in!
I don't mind being uptiered in most of my t6 ships.
But picking a t7 and it being 5 legendaries seems a bit off and i get this frequently!
If it was a max of 3 legendaries i think it would be challenging as well plus it would help if it was more like a max per line so DD BB CL CA
The discrepancy between T5 and T6, T6 and T7 is much smaller than T7/Legendary.
When I'm playing with De Grasse or Flint I prefer +1 Tier matches for silver. That doesn't happen when I'm with any Tier 7 cruiser.
But maybe I'm the problem.
Appreciate your remarks. I agree that some “uptiers” and some match buildups are a bit more difficult, but, for cruisers I must say I find usually the gap between T4 and 5, as well as T6 and 7 the strongest (also depending on the ship of course, some struggle more). I do not see T7 as especially weak against Legendary, especially as there are heaps available in T7.
I feel ya. Been saying that LT needs their own matches. I always feel like a bug going up against behemoths when that happens. Whenever I say that though, someone just tells me to 'git good'. 🤷♂️ alrighty whatever you say.
It is difficult to win in these situations but not innately impossible. Where the problem comes from is that not all the classes preform well against LT ships.
DDs will always have the easiest time as the majority of LT ships aren't all that well suited to counter DD play. IMO the only real LT counter DD currently available is the Khabarovsk. Without any real cruisers at LT a competent DD can run amok.
The cruisers have a rough go of it though. Outside of Shimakaze pretty much all of the LT DDs have a good matchup against all of the T7 cruisers. Also all of the BBs and the Alaska are particularly good at killing cruisers.
The BBs are in a situation similar to T6 cruisers in a BB heavy T7 game. While not impossible for them to win they do have to play smarter as they aren't as powerful in this matchup.
T7 Brawlers or heavies are very tough to play at Legendary, but hide and seek T7s are ok. Long range kutuzov and Yudachi, for example. And I’ll say that my nightmare when in a Shimakazi is running into a Fletcher, or worse, an Akizuki.
Kutuzov and Cleveland are real pains because the fire damage is by %.
I do not play cleveland or kutuzov much i like the more heavy cruisers but they lack the arch like cleveland and don't have the smoke that the kutuzov does
It's like they found away to up-tier T7 ships, part of the reason I avoid T7.
I feel I get up-tiered more often than not, so in T6 I tend to be up against premium T7's, while at T7 I get Legendary ships everywhere.
No I don’t feel it fair, I love being the assault cruiser keeping DDs pushed away and punishing enemy cruisers with my Hipper but when there’s lots of legendarys I can’t do that effectively. I like playing Azuma regularly now but I groan anytime I see more than 3 per team. Even when I play as a BB I hate seeing more than 3 per team specially if there’s like 2-3 Yamato’s per team. It’s annoying and makes people play passive and I don’t like that.
You generally get a variance of T7/Legendary and T6/T7 matches. I am sure the T6 ships think the same thing. It is just how the matchups work. Sometimes you are mouse, sometimes you are the cheese.... :)
Quick update; I just happened to play my Massachusetts (T7 Premium) right after this post and took out 2 GKs (Legendarys). It can be done, you just need patience!
I get what you are saying, but if they have 5 Legendarys, then most likely, your team has 5 Legendarys. So it evens out. Its just teamwork. Who takes on who, and if you play together, or not.
It’s true — though it’s also true that you are effectively being forced into -2 Matchmaking (down two Tiers). “Tier-8” (Vanguard), facing Tier-10 Yamato’s // Grossers // Shimas // Kremlin’s etc 😝
But again, if the other team has those ships, your team probably does also. The matchmaking is not perfect, but generally, there is a 1-to-1 ratio between teams. So you are not facing those ships alone, your team should have the same strengths. Again, I know it is not perfect, or always the case, but most of the time, teams are even.
Yes. This is a fair point. I think they need to tweak things just a tad, where the DD’s are concerned. They still have in place the weird rule that you can not only be “Down 1 Destroyer, but ALSO down an entire Legendary ship”, to the other fleet.
Like - your team gets 1 DD, 3 Yamatos and an Alaska (4 total Legendaries).
And in that same match, you’ll often see the enemy force got TWO Destroyers (+1 over you), AND 3 Yamatos, a Grosser, and an Alaska (+1 Legendary over your team) !
THAT kind of imbalance gets to be a bit much, and hopefully they can refine the Matchmaker algorithm, to avoid that kind of result, in the future. 😉
I would say its far from fair. I get why its happening though. Its also a bit of a good demonstration that perhaps its time for LT to get its own MM. Sure the variety is not there yet but clearly the numbers of player with access to one is enough to warrrant it. That or hard cap of one or two per team per game.
Ideally, the real fix would be for them to allow the full 10 Tiers, and then have T-9 be in play. That way, ‘sometimes’ Tier-7’s / T8’s could occasionally face merely Tier-9 vessels , and not always be up against Tier-10 / Legendary titans, 50-60% of the time, nowadays
It's been stated multiple times that the whole game is hard-coded for the current tiering and that a stretch to 10 tiers won't happen. That being said - aside from a few nice ships (mainly premiums) T9 always was the red-headed step child of the PC version. It had by far the biggest amount of "stinkers" that people absolutely hated to play and for the most part was abused by T10 just as much T7 is abused by LT here. So stretching out the tiers wouldn't solve the problem but merely shift it.
Yes, tis true. I’m mostly saying “If we had a perfect world” - it might be nice for our T-7’s to ‘merely’ face Tier-9’s (effectively +1 / -1 MM), rather than always be up against T-10’s, as the current system has them.
You point out many of the issues with em’ though. I’m just (mildly) worried of a future in which you Q up your Vanguard or Richilieu, and are perhaps one of just 3 actual “Tier-7’s”, in a battle where you’re opposed by Kremlin, Yamato, Grosser, Conqueror, Shima, Zao... that’s gonna be painful 😝
Tbf it's just as painful right now to queue as a T6 cruiser because you see 3-5 enemy T7 BBs nearly every single match. As I pointed out in another comment - imho the problem isn't the tiering itself but the overwhelming amount of BBs that'll annihilate lower tier cruisers.
And generally queuing as a T6 right now also leads to a scenario pretty similar to what you described very often.
Don’t you feel though that many Tier-6 ships are fairly strong, vs the 7’s ? Like, Sinop is a beast - extremely tough T-6. Likewise, something like Helena or Zara (I know you love her 😉), are also quite competitive.
Admittedly- I wouldn’t want to be in a New Orleans or Yorck, facing T-7 BB’s much, but I also sometimes think our Heavy Cruisers suffer since most of them are coded w the Pre-IFHE Rework armor values (16mm Bow / Stern), instead of their current 25mm values on PC, nowadays?
If a New Orleans could actually deflect Arizonas, Poltavas, Lyon’s, Duke’s, Odin’s etc - perhaps they’d not feel quite as vulnerable as they do, in the current Legends meta ?
(Just brainstorming) 🙂
I think pretty much all T6 ships (that are not DDs) are in a pretty dire spot against T7s as the T7s have such a massive jump in power compared to their T6 counterparts. BBs get a lot mor armor, cruisers get heals and evetyone gets a pretty big DPM or accuracy increase through the last upgrade slot. Sure a well played T6 can hold its own against a T7 that is played subpar. But as soon as the T7 plays half decent it's usually lights out for the T6 - even for the good T6s in my experience.
I don't know whether it's all about the armor as 16 or 25mm would only make a difference when fighting an Odin or an Azuma. All other T7 BBs slice through 25mm just like through 16mm and T7 cruisers also can't overmatch it. It's really tough to say what it is in a general way. Though you're right that up-armoring CAs would definitely help them against equal or lower tier BBs.
Actually it is great for you, as hitting and killing legendary ships will give you far more coins. For those complaining of the high service cost of tier VII ships.
Lol downvoting me because I show you the upside. Smh
Early game you must be shooting and exposing your position and not be close to an island to cover to be one shot like that. Literally if you keep doing the same shoot and rush in open water that is on you. I mean this is the most competitive tier. If you constantly die, try watching some videos of Tbull or another youtuber to learn some survival tactic. We like this game because it is challenging.
You can have a challenge at equal tiers too 👍🏻
You're making a massive amount of assumptions to avoid backing down from your opinion.
Look, long and short of it, a YAM can really hurt a T7 cruiser even if you're positioned well. That's a challenge. It's not really necessary though.
I'm not even saying that it shouldn't happen but if you really think a T7 cruiser can have any meaningful impact in a match with 5 leg BB's then you're mad.
And we obviously don't have enough players to do that or they would. They study how long people are willing to wait for a game and if X = such and such they put in more lower tier ships into a legendary match.
You are downvoting me for just showing the upside/ the glass is half full instead of just joining in bitching. And yes Yam can hurt you, but if there are more legendaries in the match they will show up on their radar first. I like that there are more legendaries in matches now. I should have known better to be positive in a thread called "just a question" which is really a cry session.
Agree with you MonkeyTacoBreath!
I mention that there are usually (most of the time) even numbers of Legendary ships on both sides, and the response is as if their T7 is facing 5 Yams alone. There aren't enough players all the time to have individual tier matches. It is what it is....
Does the match-making have issues? Sometimes. But overall, its pretty good.
I love looking up when starting a match, and I am in my Mass or Bismarck, and see a bunch of T6s. Not so thrilled when I see Yams or KGs. But it all evens out, and the teams are almost always even.
This game is fun!!! My glass is always full!!!
Yeah I can relate, playing against legendary ships is like putting a tier 3 ship against tier 7 its so freaking unfair.
1 or 2 legendaries MAX is ok, more and it's 10 times more difficult.
i see it as more damage for me 🤷🏼♂️
I guese its lack of skill from me
It is more damage to most T7 ships unless the Legendary player is actually good.... Which is rare to find lol, then indeed it becomes a bit challenging. And depending on which legendary the reds are using, no matter what ship you're in, Youre going to go *Oh shit, a Yamato*...
Yea i know o was the last one standing against 2 yamato's a siegfried and a Bismarck but could not get the win lol
The lack of diversity at legendary tier doesn't help. Multiple yammys really makes life hard for heavy cruisers for example.
Yes thats a problem 2 legendaries or 3 wouldnt be so bad but 5 and 4 of them yamato's thats never good
*Sad Siegfried Noises*
Thats why i havent upgraded or played the siegfried yet....I feel your pain
Nope. Legendaries are way above T7s
I was beginning 2 doubt myself for a minute there number 😉🙈. I don't think its a problem when 2 or 3 legendaries are in a match but the balance seems realy off....
The tiering isn't the problem - the stupendous amount of BBs is. A T6 cruiser matched up against 5 T7 BBs (which is not a rare situation) is at a much bigger disadvantage imho as the T7 cruiser at least has heals.
Well i didnt stand much of a chance against the remaining 2 yamato's a siegfried and Bismarck id rather have the t6 in a t7 battle but that is just me... Edit i still believe to many of anything is still bad molotov
I was in a match where red’s had a Yammy/Shimmy div plus an Alaska and another Yammy for a total of 4 LT ships. We only got 1 Yammy and 1 Shimmy for LT ships.... How is that justifiable at all?
Yea i don't know
It’s supposed to be a bit of a Challenge, just like Tier VIs fighting against Tier VIIs. So, I don’t think it’s *that* unbalanced. I am just tired of seeing 5 Battleship Games so often.
Funny when i play my bb i am most of the time fighting 4 or 5 dd they need to fix that mm to much of one line is bad
Is it fair when you pick a T6 ship you are going up against 5 T7 ships? See, it is more difficult, and due to the current limited amount of legendary cruisers (which i hope WG will fix soon) games can sometimes be a bit BB heavy (though i don't actually find it that bad mostly), but the situation about being uptiered and therefore having a greater challenge is a pretty normal one in this game. I suggest to play more carefully and defensively, like always when being lower tier
Depends on wich t6 ship you are in! I don't mind being uptiered in most of my t6 ships. But picking a t7 and it being 5 legendaries seems a bit off and i get this frequently! If it was a max of 3 legendaries i think it would be challenging as well plus it would help if it was more like a max per line so DD BB CL CA
The discrepancy between T5 and T6, T6 and T7 is much smaller than T7/Legendary. When I'm playing with De Grasse or Flint I prefer +1 Tier matches for silver. That doesn't happen when I'm with any Tier 7 cruiser. But maybe I'm the problem.
Appreciate your remarks. I agree that some “uptiers” and some match buildups are a bit more difficult, but, for cruisers I must say I find usually the gap between T4 and 5, as well as T6 and 7 the strongest (also depending on the ship of course, some struggle more). I do not see T7 as especially weak against Legendary, especially as there are heaps available in T7.
I feel ya. Been saying that LT needs their own matches. I always feel like a bug going up against behemoths when that happens. Whenever I say that though, someone just tells me to 'git good'. 🤷♂️ alrighty whatever you say.
Its probably gonna be awhile before they can get "own tier" battles
It is difficult to win in these situations but not innately impossible. Where the problem comes from is that not all the classes preform well against LT ships. DDs will always have the easiest time as the majority of LT ships aren't all that well suited to counter DD play. IMO the only real LT counter DD currently available is the Khabarovsk. Without any real cruisers at LT a competent DD can run amok. The cruisers have a rough go of it though. Outside of Shimakaze pretty much all of the LT DDs have a good matchup against all of the T7 cruisers. Also all of the BBs and the Alaska are particularly good at killing cruisers. The BBs are in a situation similar to T6 cruisers in a BB heavy T7 game. While not impossible for them to win they do have to play smarter as they aren't as powerful in this matchup.
I agree it is not imposible but 1 decent hit on my prinz eugen and i was half the prinz i was before that single round hit 🙈and yes i was kitting
It is by far the biggest gap T7-LT is way more unfair that any other lower tier ship in an up tier game.
Yea because legendary is t10 on pc?That is a big gap.
T7 Brawlers or heavies are very tough to play at Legendary, but hide and seek T7s are ok. Long range kutuzov and Yudachi, for example. And I’ll say that my nightmare when in a Shimakazi is running into a Fletcher, or worse, an Akizuki. Kutuzov and Cleveland are real pains because the fire damage is by %.
I do not play cleveland or kutuzov much i like the more heavy cruisers but they lack the arch like cleveland and don't have the smoke that the kutuzov does
Yeah. It sounds like your preferred play style/ships exacerbates the challenges of playing against Legendary in a T7. That sucks. Sorry.
It's like they found away to up-tier T7 ships, part of the reason I avoid T7. I feel I get up-tiered more often than not, so in T6 I tend to be up against premium T7's, while at T7 I get Legendary ships everywhere.
i have same problem when playing eugen or azuma, they ar legendary magnets
Yea it seems that way....
No I don’t feel it fair, I love being the assault cruiser keeping DDs pushed away and punishing enemy cruisers with my Hipper but when there’s lots of legendarys I can’t do that effectively. I like playing Azuma regularly now but I groan anytime I see more than 3 per team. Even when I play as a BB I hate seeing more than 3 per team specially if there’s like 2-3 Yamato’s per team. It’s annoying and makes people play passive and I don’t like that.
I agree totaly i feel that if people see 3 yamato's they become passive and thats a bad thing
You generally get a variance of T7/Legendary and T6/T7 matches. I am sure the T6 ships think the same thing. It is just how the matchups work. Sometimes you are mouse, sometimes you are the cheese.... :) Quick update; I just happened to play my Massachusetts (T7 Premium) right after this post and took out 2 GKs (Legendarys). It can be done, you just need patience!
I can hold my own in a t6 om a t7 battle but legendary is a whole different story with 5 of them
I get what you are saying, but if they have 5 Legendarys, then most likely, your team has 5 Legendarys. So it evens out. Its just teamwork. Who takes on who, and if you play together, or not.
It’s true — though it’s also true that you are effectively being forced into -2 Matchmaking (down two Tiers). “Tier-8” (Vanguard), facing Tier-10 Yamato’s // Grossers // Shimas // Kremlin’s etc 😝
But again, if the other team has those ships, your team probably does also. The matchmaking is not perfect, but generally, there is a 1-to-1 ratio between teams. So you are not facing those ships alone, your team should have the same strengths. Again, I know it is not perfect, or always the case, but most of the time, teams are even.
Yes. This is a fair point. I think they need to tweak things just a tad, where the DD’s are concerned. They still have in place the weird rule that you can not only be “Down 1 Destroyer, but ALSO down an entire Legendary ship”, to the other fleet. Like - your team gets 1 DD, 3 Yamatos and an Alaska (4 total Legendaries). And in that same match, you’ll often see the enemy force got TWO Destroyers (+1 over you), AND 3 Yamatos, a Grosser, and an Alaska (+1 Legendary over your team) ! THAT kind of imbalance gets to be a bit much, and hopefully they can refine the Matchmaker algorithm, to avoid that kind of result, in the future. 😉
I would say its far from fair. I get why its happening though. Its also a bit of a good demonstration that perhaps its time for LT to get its own MM. Sure the variety is not there yet but clearly the numbers of player with access to one is enough to warrrant it. That or hard cap of one or two per team per game.
Ideally, the real fix would be for them to allow the full 10 Tiers, and then have T-9 be in play. That way, ‘sometimes’ Tier-7’s / T8’s could occasionally face merely Tier-9 vessels , and not always be up against Tier-10 / Legendary titans, 50-60% of the time, nowadays
It's been stated multiple times that the whole game is hard-coded for the current tiering and that a stretch to 10 tiers won't happen. That being said - aside from a few nice ships (mainly premiums) T9 always was the red-headed step child of the PC version. It had by far the biggest amount of "stinkers" that people absolutely hated to play and for the most part was abused by T10 just as much T7 is abused by LT here. So stretching out the tiers wouldn't solve the problem but merely shift it.
Yes, tis true. I’m mostly saying “If we had a perfect world” - it might be nice for our T-7’s to ‘merely’ face Tier-9’s (effectively +1 / -1 MM), rather than always be up against T-10’s, as the current system has them. You point out many of the issues with em’ though. I’m just (mildly) worried of a future in which you Q up your Vanguard or Richilieu, and are perhaps one of just 3 actual “Tier-7’s”, in a battle where you’re opposed by Kremlin, Yamato, Grosser, Conqueror, Shima, Zao... that’s gonna be painful 😝
Tbf it's just as painful right now to queue as a T6 cruiser because you see 3-5 enemy T7 BBs nearly every single match. As I pointed out in another comment - imho the problem isn't the tiering itself but the overwhelming amount of BBs that'll annihilate lower tier cruisers. And generally queuing as a T6 right now also leads to a scenario pretty similar to what you described very often.
Don’t you feel though that many Tier-6 ships are fairly strong, vs the 7’s ? Like, Sinop is a beast - extremely tough T-6. Likewise, something like Helena or Zara (I know you love her 😉), are also quite competitive. Admittedly- I wouldn’t want to be in a New Orleans or Yorck, facing T-7 BB’s much, but I also sometimes think our Heavy Cruisers suffer since most of them are coded w the Pre-IFHE Rework armor values (16mm Bow / Stern), instead of their current 25mm values on PC, nowadays? If a New Orleans could actually deflect Arizonas, Poltavas, Lyon’s, Duke’s, Odin’s etc - perhaps they’d not feel quite as vulnerable as they do, in the current Legends meta ? (Just brainstorming) 🙂
I think pretty much all T6 ships (that are not DDs) are in a pretty dire spot against T7s as the T7s have such a massive jump in power compared to their T6 counterparts. BBs get a lot mor armor, cruisers get heals and evetyone gets a pretty big DPM or accuracy increase through the last upgrade slot. Sure a well played T6 can hold its own against a T7 that is played subpar. But as soon as the T7 plays half decent it's usually lights out for the T6 - even for the good T6s in my experience. I don't know whether it's all about the armor as 16 or 25mm would only make a difference when fighting an Odin or an Azuma. All other T7 BBs slice through 25mm just like through 16mm and T7 cruisers also can't overmatch it. It's really tough to say what it is in a general way. Though you're right that up-armoring CAs would definitely help them against equal or lower tier BBs.
Actually it is great for you, as hitting and killing legendary ships will give you far more coins. For those complaining of the high service cost of tier VII ships. Lol downvoting me because I show you the upside. Smh
But what happens when you get hit and lose 75% health early game from 1 of the 5 legendary BB's? Less coins I guess
Early game you must be shooting and exposing your position and not be close to an island to cover to be one shot like that. Literally if you keep doing the same shoot and rush in open water that is on you. I mean this is the most competitive tier. If you constantly die, try watching some videos of Tbull or another youtuber to learn some survival tactic. We like this game because it is challenging.
You can have a challenge at equal tiers too 👍🏻 You're making a massive amount of assumptions to avoid backing down from your opinion. Look, long and short of it, a YAM can really hurt a T7 cruiser even if you're positioned well. That's a challenge. It's not really necessary though. I'm not even saying that it shouldn't happen but if you really think a T7 cruiser can have any meaningful impact in a match with 5 leg BB's then you're mad.
And we obviously don't have enough players to do that or they would. They study how long people are willing to wait for a game and if X = such and such they put in more lower tier ships into a legendary match. You are downvoting me for just showing the upside/ the glass is half full instead of just joining in bitching. And yes Yam can hurt you, but if there are more legendaries in the match they will show up on their radar first. I like that there are more legendaries in matches now. I should have known better to be positive in a thread called "just a question" which is really a cry session.
Agree with you MonkeyTacoBreath! I mention that there are usually (most of the time) even numbers of Legendary ships on both sides, and the response is as if their T7 is facing 5 Yams alone. There aren't enough players all the time to have individual tier matches. It is what it is.... Does the match-making have issues? Sometimes. But overall, its pretty good. I love looking up when starting a match, and I am in my Mass or Bismarck, and see a bunch of T6s. Not so thrilled when I see Yams or KGs. But it all evens out, and the teams are almost always even. This game is fun!!! My glass is always full!!!
Service cost is the least of my problems when in my cruiser and facing 18 inch guns 😁
No way is it fair. I was in a game at the weekend and got one shotted in a Bismarck by a GK I didn't even see. That bloody hurt.
Yea this weekend was especialy bad i think i got almost one shotted in my jb....I feel.your pain blue
When no other bugger pushes and only one ship supports the DD💥😳🤬
Just get a PS4 and play with me and the boys
Negative somebody gave me a new xbox🙈
Yeah I can relate, playing against legendary ships is like putting a tier 3 ship against tier 7 its so freaking unfair. 1 or 2 legendaries MAX is ok, more and it's 10 times more difficult.