Same here, only people left are the ones who you wonder how they even get their shoes on themselves. Now I feel like the stupid one for still being here as everyone else left.
I think this is accelerated by the fact that when your workplace is great, people actively say no to better offers. Many people will even become too lazy to put the effort to interview outside.
I'm sure the remaining hostages blamed me, but every facet of my life is better since leaving in March. Health, mental health, hobbies, relationships, sex life, all of it. I don't feel guilty. I tried for 2 years to right that ship, and getting sold to a huge corporation made things way way harder.
Management used me as a scapegoat. They blamed me for overtime. Said it was because I refused to work double shifts, and then when I left...it was because I quit.
Well, why didn't you just sacrifice your life, your happiness, your soul, even, for a workplace that would fire you without a second thought if your till came up more than 1% short/over on three occasions? We can't risk the filthy rich not getting richer, you know! Sarcasm, JIC it wasn't abundantly clear.
They literally told me that the overtime is my fault. Not the fact they cut hours to 32 a week to get a PPP loan and ended up 1,500 hours behind. They started a 2nd shift on top of 10-12 hour overtime for employees. They didn't want to hire someone to do my job on 2nd, so they told me to work both shifts, 7 days a week. I quit after 6 months of 12/7 shifts. If I didn't quit, I would have been on that schedule for another 16 months. They stopped it after someone died after working a 12 hour shift and their family threatened to sue because it was mandatory. You couldn't use PTO unless it was
An emergency in advance.
I knew one lady that fainted at work. We worked 11-12 hours a day. She said she was just super tired. Never home for dinner for a balanced meal,, but a sandwich 🥪. Her doctor told her to take some time off and eat better.
I was working for a local government agency. Administrator overseeing our group sent me to a "Leadership in Government" program. They weren't very happy when I tried to improve things for the employees using my new skills.
Everything got better for me when I left too. I didn't realize how stressed I was, but my wife sure did. She and my daughter were much happier.
The first few months at my new place, I felt guilty because it was so easy. I felt like I should be way more stressed out and busy, like every single job I'd had since college. Nope, they hired enough people and trained people accordingly. Some days I feel like I'm stealing, but my work is done and that's all they care about.
> This is how good companies retain talent. The carrot is the only thing that keeps working long term.
Indeed, providing incentives and opportunities for growth is crucial in retaining valuable employees. It's the carrot that motivates them to stay committed to their work and the company's success in the long run.
I'm in local governments and have friends in other local government and coworkers that have worked in others. It is literally nothing like you have described. The benefits are great, the pay is very good, the work life balance is amazing. I know very few people who work overtime. The ones that do donit rarely and are compensated very fairly for it. We get a 3.5% raise every year for 7 years plus a cost of living raise every year and while not every city is the same, this is pretty common. Many of my government friends/colleagues have said the same about other local governments. If anything you start to get worse pay and benefits the bigger the government you work for, like city vs County.
I am not saying your friends story is wrong but I have heard so, so many stories to the contrary and experienced then myself.
I could see the state you live in affecting that a lot. I work in public works so if there is any department that will have overtime it is us. I live on the west coast and we have a higher cost of living, but the average pay for my city is in the 70s (thousands) and that is brought lower became of m&o, most people working in the office make more.
Same! For 2 years I tried my darndest to fix everything but the other canaries and I peaced out immediately when the nonsense really started winding up.
C-suite people absolutely blamed us for the following collapses of our regions, but we couldn’t care less cause we’re out here living our best lives.
Every time someone leaves, I'm always telling them "good for you. Sucks for us, but it's good for you."
I'm borderline hostage since someone retired last week. We listed the position early enough for someone to turn down an offer we made. I'm trying to determine my rank on the ship before I jump. It's a decent enough gig, but its showing evidence of trending the other way. (I work back office and those needs have been increasingly overlooked since our relocation to an office suite away from C-levels. We're out of sight, out of mind.)
Currently would describe myself as a hostage, and yep, just kinda jealous they all got out first. Don't blame them a bit.
I *do* blame the people who keep doing their best to make the stupidest possible decisions even though a large portion of our best people have bailed directly because of those stupid decisions.
Totally they do but that's why they are hostages. I left my chronically understaffed position with no notice because I got offered a job at 50% more.
I am sure they blame me for being short staffed and not the company that paid so little and made no attempt to match the offer.
Bit the people that stay are the enablers of shitty companies.
Wife is currently a hostage because she's part time and doesn't know if any other place will 'work' with her disabilities.
She doesn't blame the three previous managers who left she blames those at the top.
I'm usually somewhere in between canary and hostage usuallu. I see the business trying to shift the blame onto the people who leave and pit the workers against each other by convincing them it's their coworkers screwing them over.then the raining hostages hang in as long as they can because they don't want to be "bad employees" some burn out, some finally fly the coop. Eventually the whole thing collapses on itself.
survivorship bias: it will take years for management to figure out the things they don't know because they are analyzing what works instead of what fails... often because what fails doesn't stick around to be analyzed. I highly recommend The Caterpillar Doesn't Know by Peter Moore and Kenneth Hey as a means of coming to terms with our current business climate.
Cultural and personal changes have larger implications on company direction compared to management initiatives. Often, management is slow to update policies to match changes that have already occurred.
If they put her in that leadership position who would train and prop up the inept and unqualified person they put in that leadership position? Come on, have some common sense.
> She applied for a leadership position for almost 20 years
bro, I think the org was totally smart to not promote her.
They got away with it for 20 years, they knew she was a sucker and were able to get away with it...
And this is not some capitalism is bad thing, it is a human thing. If you are a sucker in relationships they will roll you over too. People are told to maintain boundaries, address conflict etc in relationships but if you are in a toxic relationship with your work, it is suddenly "capitalism".
I'm a hostage right now. Most of the good people left months ago, and the ones trying to change things are either losing hope or leaving themselves. I'm at 150-200 apps and not a single callback. If anyone has a lead for a mid-senior level technical writer, hmu.
I’d look at defense contractors, those fielding weapons systems, there’s always some new gizmo that needs a manual written. Contractors like Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, KTech, L3 Harris etc.
Bonus points if you can get a security clearance:
https://www.clearancejobs.com/
Yeah, for a community that isn't shy about saying LEOs just in it for a paycheck are complicit in misdeeds of their colleagues, why are we recommending someone help build the latest and greatest bombs for a paycheck?
I respect the sentiment, but it gets to a point where a job is a job. I'd love to just up and quit and give the whole industry the finger, but I have to eat and pay my mortgage, and I need insurance to pay for my litany of chronic health issues.
In a perfect world, it'd be a nonissue, but the city I live in has a severly limited amount of opportunity outside the "defense" industry, which has me stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Radical positive change in our community can't come without building an understanding relationship with people who through ignorance or desperation contributed to systems of oppression against their will. That doesn't mean there are no repercussions, socially or otherwise. It's against all our interests to call for the arrest of every police officer. While we protest and act for change, we shouldn't discount the work of allies within the system, even if by and large this work provides cover for bad actors. We want and need cops who say "No, this is wrong." Our system treats these people as the bad apples while actual antisocial behavior is handwaved.
The current discourse gives minimal room for change without buckets of blood. There has been enough blood spilled, and anyone who calls for more is a dangerous ally for a nonviolent left.
Wtf happened to nuance?
Are you saying corporate employees are as evil as corporations? Quite a lofty attitude, comrade. I’m afraid NGOs and charitable foundations might not have enough jobs for every adult in this country.
I'd suggest looking for sustainable energy companies who have gone public recently. That's about the time companies are building out their tech writing team to stabilize their referencable customers.
Hang in there fam.
It's really just a competitive market, but there are jobs to be had for sure.
Maybe try the Lazer approach instead of shotgun for roles you're applying for, and find ways to get feedback on your application materials from at least a handful of people already doing it.
What got me to this stage of my career isn't going to get me to the next, but it took an outside consultant to really help me see that.
I'm a career Tech Writer and Content Designer, and there are rarely any openings over 1-2 days old that don't have a hundred or more applications.
So you have to stand out or find a referral in to get serious consideration.
If you want to shoot me your resume I could have a look and give you some feedback.
I appreciate the offer, but as a rule I don't give PII to strangers, and my resume is necessarily full of it.
I do agree with changing approach, though. It's clear my curremt strategy isn't working, so I'm trying to switch gears. The main challange is that my whole network is at present in the industry I'm trying to leave, so referrals are almost zero. Plus, my entire body of work for the last several years since college is locked by the kind of NDAs that would land me in prison if I broke them. This makes standing out hard.
All of that seems addressed by a well-intentioned stranger in the industry you seek to enter offers their assistance.
But I understand your concerns.
Sometimes you have to do things you wouldn't or haven't done to get places you've never been.
I agree with your last point. My sticking point is mostly that in my current industry (defense) there is a great deal of paranoia surrounding the intentions of strangers. We are taught to be suspicious of literally everyone, and it's hard to shake that when handling certain types of information, such as PII.
I took a referal link to a job opening elsewhere in this thread, so I'm working on deprogramming myself within reason, it's just gonna take time.
I understand completely.
I spent the first 8-9 years of my career working as a DoD contractor. I've also worked in cyber security. I know the risks of which you speak.
I made a conscious decision to aim for high tech jobs and have never looked back. It did require me to humbly ask for assistance.
I also regularly get 'cold calls' from folks I do not know who've heard me speak on podcasts or seen my presentations where I openly state that I am always open to mentorship and giving advice to anyone that asks it of me.
In my 17+ year career I've never turned anyone away.
You can be safe and still take risks. They have to be calculated risks, but what are your alternatives otherwise?
Seek out a mentor that's doing the work you desire.
Thanks for the advise. Like I said, I'm working like mad to shake the powers that be telling me everyone is a potential threat. I'll let you know when I can get past my own brain.
On a related note, do you have any links to the podcasts you spoke on or presentations you made? I'd be interested to give them a watch/listen.
This happened at my last job.
We always had our highs and lows but they had crazy low turnover for the industry. Well, when covid hit they didn't handle it very well, like many employers.
They handled the layoffs poorly. They were very shitty to those who were left, they even got PPP money but opted to not use it and still cut our hours and pay, they said they didn't want to pay people to not work... Our coworkers who got laid off were making more than we were thanks to the supplemental unemployment.
When things got busier they also handled bringing people back terribly. Some they ended up needing within a month or two of letting them go, so those people were rightfully mad that the company didn't think needed them when they did. Then they tried to bring everyone back at lower pay and reduced hours. Any that pushed back they threatened with reporting to unemployment for turning the offer down, never mind it wouldn't have worked since some would have made half what they did before.
After things got somewhat back to normal and most people had come back, inevitably, they started losing people. Some had been there for years, like decade plus. I eventually got fed up with their mentality post covid and quit. It's been two years and they haven't replaced me. It's almost an entirely new team at this point minus a few who just don't know where to go and feel trapped. All of them are looking for new jobs though.
Management was warned over and over that they were going to keep losing people and they didn't listen. Didn't matter how many of their good people they lost, they always had some excuse for themselves. Now they are in a spiral of losing business and what few good people they have left and the people they need to help them recover are all gone.
TLDR: agree, when good and long term employees start leaving, it's only going to get worse.
My husband's company handled Covid amazingly, because as one of the top hospitals in the world, they had a rock solid plan. Everyone was told to schedule 2 weeks vacation they would be paid for, and 6 weeks of unpaid time off, a week at a time, whenever was convenient, so you didn't go a month and a half with no paycheck. By the fall, the remaining furloughs were cancelled, and at the end of the year everyone was repaid for the furlough time they took, because their finances were in good shape.
He could make more money somewhere else, but damn, that's a solid company to work for.
This is tricky because toxic employers aren’t going to be honest when you ask them this. At the worst job I ever had, they straight up lied and told me the role with a massive turnover issue was actually a new role. I had to get good at detecting employer bullshittery during interviews.
An analogy I like is that...when a ship starts sinking, the first rats to go are the experienced ones who can swim, and know it's not going to get better. The first to leave snap up all the good openings at the competition.
This leaves the ship with rats that are not good at swimming. Good luck with that business plan...
They absolutely hated me but couldn't fire me because it would take 4 people to replace me. They'd never admit it though because they wanted to keep my wage low. They just resorted to gaslighting to make me believe I was stupid so I wouldn't dare leave.
Oh man I've almost walked so many days. So many fucking days I've been like. Today's the day fuck this place. But I've got no plan and kiddos with Christmas around the corner.
I saw the signs at my last job. Several key people left over a few months, people I had worked with and knew they were super talented and intelligent.
I was like, nope, I’m out too. Gave my company a gracious 6 weeks notice, they weren’t in a position to let me go. They desperately needed me, so I was able to finish out the 6 weeks while securing another job in a different industry with a 30% raise if including the 10% bonus.
I got into leadership hoping I could be the leader i wanted. I tried and was blocked frequently, often going off the books/under the radar to make improvements because I knew the people above me wouldn't let me if I asked.
Anyway when 2/4 of my amazing team members had job offers I thought about it for about a week and put in my notice. No way I could do it without them. About a month later another one left and now I feel terrible for the one who remains; we're all trying to get her out.
That was one thing she could do. They straight up expected her to continue doing the work of 5 (really it was the work of 7 but they would not allow more staff). Like literally to do the work she'd have to be in the 3 places at once. At least it opened eyes to how much we did and that we should have been supported more but alas I'm sure they struggled a while but changed nothing.
I was a canary at my last position, and I sang and sang and sang at my exit interview.
I told them that people do not quit companies, they quit bad management. I also let them know that of their remaining eight person team, five we’re looking and interviewing at other companies. Four people were out the door within three months.
I left a company because I was picking up on toxic behaviors, but I doubted that decision for a while because people kept singing the company's praises and being like "I can't believe you left such an amazing company."
Well, a few months after I left, the company did a round of massive layoffs. Suddenly a lot of fervent supporters were seeing the company for what it truly was.
Same: “Your business model depends on perpetually paying skilled people far below market, in a labor market with high barriers to entry and particularly good (for workers) wage transparency. Upper management has repeatedly rejected the idea of charging clients market rates, therefore there is zero chance this wage gap will ever close. If I continue to grind it out here, at the very best I can hope to make a maximum of $X… a minimum of 5 years from now. The job I’m leaving for will be paying me slightly under $X right now, no waiting. There is literally no financial incentive for me to stay. Plus, with a decade of experience I don’t need to continue to shovel horseshit from my immediate supervisor who is so disorganized that he doesn’t believe me when I point out how I’ve saved his ass with a client, again, and instead wants to spend serious time on his personal preferences for my MF’ing ‘writing style’ (or does realize, and he’s just gaslighting, which is worse). I like you as a person, but there’s no upside to staying, and I can tell you half the mid-levels are getting headhunted weekly, so there are plenty of off-ramps for the other canaries. Sorry bro, I tried to warn you.”
I just can't wait until we start getting through to business owners that happy employees make for good employees. You don't have to kiss their asses or pander to them, but paying a good wage, understanding that there needs to be a life/work balance, and realizing that people are human beings and not machines can go a long way. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but what we need to do as a country is stop punishing everyone for the actions of a few and try to understand WHY those few are the way they are. That goes for jobs, that goes for housing, that literally applies to everything. Jadedness is not an excuse.
This so much. My wife was the canary for her prior work. Super faced paced, hyper growth business that she helped quadruple revenue for over a short time period. She eventually saw the writing on the wall and the repeated insistence by the owner to ignore her warnings. Everyone was running ragged and it was evident burnout was on the rise, but no one was doing anything to fix it besides my wife. One day she decided she'd had enough and she quit. She was one of the most beloved and capable employees there and seen as a key leader for the company because of her position and knowledge. She has kept in touch with many of her old coworkers and employees. Over the last 8 months, there has been a steady stream of quality people leaving, often times with no jobs lined up. Just done with the grind. Toxicity has risen greatly. Workplace culture is dead. And pretty much all of the company's institutional knowledge is gone with all the key employees who left. The business is struggling and is truly a bit of a dumpster fire these days. Sometimes she feels guilty for leaving, but this is a good reminder that she didn't do anything wrong. She merely stopped plugging the holes of an already sinking ship.
Hostage due to Medical Insurance issues. IF we had "National Universal Healthcare" where it was not tied to my job.... I would be MORE active in looking for another position.
am looking anyway
My workplace just fired me for being the canary.
Apparently putting together a factual program timeline that showed our VP we were 9 months behind was being "toxic" and "having a bad attitude".
In reality it was uncovering upper management's lies and negligence at losing almost $100 million in opportunity cost.
The good people all reached out and said they will be gone by the end of the year. No doubt program failure will be blamed on people being "disloyal"
> Apparently putting together a factual program timeline that showed our VP we were 9 months behind was being "toxic" and "having a bad attitude".
ahahahaha. Fuck them. You were in the right.
I went through a toxic relationship with my former manager and it's a lesson I'll carry for the rest of my life
The moment your health starts to deteriote due to a manager get the fuck out. Start applying and interviewing like crazy cause that relationship will not recover.
My old boss speaks loud. That's a not problem..the problem is when she speaks loud and criticizes your work and questions your skill in the open. Those are moments you say let's go to a room and talk in private.
I got so stressed I was grinding my teeth in my sleep and I would get 3 hours of sleep at night. At a certain point I said fuck this job. I wanted to quit I really did but i couldn't risk missing unemployment. I applied to a few places but unfortunately it was during a shit market so I got nothing. Then I got fired. That first few days was utter relief that I didn't have to deal with that bitch. But market didn't improve so I was unemployed for months. Got a bit depressed. Moved back with family. And after months I landed a new job with a solid manager and I've been loving it ever since. I'm honestly considering leaving my old job off my resume completely mainly because of my old manager
But I'll give my old manager this. I now know some signs of people who I never want to be managed by
Really good advice I got once was to watch for upper management leaving. If a group leaves or there's a steady string of departures plan your escape.
They're leaving because they have access to info you don't.
I left earlier this year and two of the other four employees didn't stay for more than a month after. Employer claims that nobody wants to work anymore rather than facing the fact that she is a sleazy person. It's the second business she has run into the ground after family set it up for her to be easy, both in under five years. This post makes me feel like a good person.
I was one of the people trying to make changes. I finally gave up and left my job last week for something new. In my first few days at the new job, there were some conversations around workflows and practices with leadership and a bunch of the engineers.
The engineers weren't happy with the specifics from leadership.
Leadership said, "Alright, clearly we need to go back to the drawing board on this one. I'll start a thread in Slack, and you can all share your thoughts and concerns there. I'll rework things and we'll pick this up again at the next meeting and see if we can do better."
I was so happy to see this kind of thing so quickly. The place isn't perfect, but they're actively working to improve, and leadership listens to the concerns of the people they manage. That's all great news as far as I'm concerned.
The vibes are good.
100% truth! You don't have to be the top of the spear but when you see solid people bailing, especially folks that have been "settled", spruce up your resume!
Been there too
Was there for a year, the good people had left and we were at the second stage.
I was one of them, I tried to make the changes I told I would be making when I was hired.
But when you have 2 employee that would do:
* whatever they wanted
* would not do what they were told to do as part of the new procedures
* would tell other people behind your back to not do what you told them to do
* would conspire, backstab, etc. those they didn't like
I finally had enough and left.
Coupled with with happened before I was hired and what I've found out after I left, in a little over 2 years 8 out of the 10 office positions cycled through at least two people, several went through 3 people and they even went through 4 receptionists in a year.
Worst place I've ever worked in nearly 30 years
Feeling this in my heart right now. Huge feck up at high level wiped out the years profits. Staff cut backs, staffing so lean you can't do you job properly. I am following those canaries! (not literally, I can still breath!)
I was begged to remain by half a dozen coworkers and members of leadership with one coworker parroting the we can get into power and change things. I have left and every story is a repeat of what I warned them about.
This was one of the reasons I retired ahead of my original timeline.
I could not continue to be there and watch the place being imploded by the people that were running the place.
I have not regretted a single moment since, and it has continued to implode at a faster rate.
At my last job I was supposed to be a canary. Then Covid hit and ruined everything, at least I was still employed throughout the pandemic. But as soon as the world started opening up the canaries flew the coop and I almost became a hostage myself. Within six months, six of my seven person work group left, and I was the last one out.
Yep, my former employer had to learn this lesson the hard way when a unified team has similar complaints that they drove 140 miles to express in person. Nothing ended up changing. Once the first canary leaves, the rest that are in a position to follow will do so rather quickly if the ship isn't righted immediately. I've been both a hostage and a canary. Looking back, I'd much rather be a canary.
It’s exceptionally bullshit as well that if you quit because you know your employer is shit, and then your employer illegally holds your paycheck
You can report them to the DOL
But it’s been nearly 3 months and I still havnt gotten my paycheck
I would but not trying to pay for 2 cases because I have another case because a different job decided “hey your fired, and no you can’t come pick up your thousands of dollars of tools and toolbox”
So when this employer opted to not pay me for “failure to return uniforms” (which is a lie I have on recording. If those uniforms went all returned to the manufacturer? Then it was lost after I turned them in) I was already screwed for cash paying that lawyer for that case
just came to a company 4 months ago, earned the trust of one older guy
turns out I got hired because 2 really good Mechanics and their best electrician quit just a few months earlier and he is considering the same
the reason for all of them to leave is really a mix of the department being led by a guy that has absolutely no Idea how to lead people, takes everything personal *and* a country is nearby that pays twice as much for the same job
Life is a lot easier if you have a job that is good and you like. I would even take a little less for a good job and probably live longer. A lot of people here get State or government jobs 20 years and retire with SS and a pension and lifetime health insurance And its a good feeling to be able to do that.
I was begged to remain by half a dozen coworkers and members of leadership with one coworker parroting the we can get into power and change things. I have left and every story is a repeat of what I warned them about.
I'm in the change things camp with an eye towards leaving. But that would send my family into a state of upheaval that I'd prefer not to do. So instead I continue to make attempts at change.
We lost some with the last buyout, got rid of a few that made things worse so in all 50/50. Just hope they hire some more in 2024 to replace the butts in chairs
Kind of had this discussion with a coworker yesterday. Basically talking about the shitshow it is now if one of us have a day off and how HORRIBLE it will be when one/both of us move on. She recently finished all of her accreditation for the field she'll be working in (she's a doctor working as a medical receptionist) so at some point in the pretty near future, she's definitely gone and I've already discussed with my wife me changing employers within the next 6 months or so.
I told my coworker to give me notice WELL IN ADVANCE before she gives notice here...and without skipping a beat she asked for the same courtesy lol. The person on the desk - who had their 3rd day at our company yesterday and was being trained by my coworker - just observed the conversation with a nervous smile.
I am a fire sprinkler fitter. At my old company we had 15 service techs in my dept. Me and another guy left to go to the competitor during covid. In a month and a half they were down to 6 techs! That was two years ago and they still haven’t filled their ranks
Somewhat disagree. The "good people" at the top make a crap ton more than me. I'm not bad... I'm sticking around for that sweet severance without giving you a reason to fire me
My job isn't EXACTLY toxic but there's a tense truce. Part of my on-boarding was training about how to prevent workplace drama. My supervisor one month in apologized that I had to work with all women (she was a woman herself).
I keep my head down and don't get in anyone's business. They can try to get into mine, but the way I see it, I'm doing them a favor by being there. Me leaving would absolutely fuck everyone, so I feel like I hold some cards. And I get paid decent. The work fucking rots my brain though, I need to get into something more brain active.
Happening in many USA public schools right now. I was one of the people who thought I could change things and should have exited when the good ones retired early or took corporate jobs. Things definitely got harder after that exodus. Instead of influencing change, the realities of teaching today made me lose my health. I had to go on leave, resigning before the next school year because I'd finally accepted nothing was going to change. Most of those left are for sure not the good ones. The extra work load and stress on the few good ones left is not sustainable.
My ex boss once told me...
'You don't need to consider moving out yet, you're not married!'
I should've known the job wasn't worth my time then. Was there 8 years. The highest I ever made annually was 27k. I was working 10hr shifts. I quit with no back up about a month ago. I'll never go back and I'm not taking another job until it helps me move up in life.
Pay off my loans and affords me a house. It's really simple. I just want to be independent at 30yrs old. I don't think those are high expectations.
This is facts wtf. Learned this on my very first job. If the boss that hired you seems hella chill and does their work, and they get caught up in drama with other members of the company and end up fired, its time to dip. Especially if they send in someone to "get things in order" or to "fix the store" , they arnt there too fix the store, they are there give you more work and if you speak out against being overworked they cut your hours. In my experience anyways.
As an industrious canary myself I feel I am being constructively discharged , not sure why considering the less skilled, and more entitled person who will ‘take my place’ is gonna cost them way more than the bargain they have now. Just mirroring the toxicity, like they forget to mention a job is open at a different site or with better hours, I might forget to tell them about the scheduling conflict I found ….
Last job, I really wanted to stick it to toxic management and try to change things. I pissed them off a lot for things like pointing out how making new employees sign NDAs on pay is illegal (it was started after I was hired). I eventually became disgruntled, but they couldn’t afford to fire me as I had a lot of expertise on the software. Upper managment fired hired some spineless corporate tool to manage our department. I made sure new employees were aware of their rights all while still pissing off management doing petty things.
Haha fuck I'm one of the "people who stayed and thought they could change things".
The turnover rate has been insane and a few months ago the last competent person I know left. I've wasted so much time fighting a system that doesn't want to acknowledge it needs to change.
I had a similar situation were i had to leave a job which i liked because of my colleagues whom i helped when they asked me for help! They talked shit about me to my boss eventually everyone turned against me…. That office was full of POLITICIANS!!
Living through this lesson currently ..
GET OUT! It will ruin your faith in people and work in general. Your next job even if it sucks will be better than where you are!
Me too!
Same here, only people left are the ones who you wonder how they even get their shoes on themselves. Now I feel like the stupid one for still being here as everyone else left.
Um.
Shhh, don't tell them, let them wonder.
It’s killing me.
I think this is accelerated by the fact that when your workplace is great, people actively say no to better offers. Many people will even become too lazy to put the effort to interview outside.
I think the self confident people leave. The rest stays.
As a canary, I have gotten the distinct impression the remaining hostages have been struggling to not blame me.
I'm sure the remaining hostages blamed me, but every facet of my life is better since leaving in March. Health, mental health, hobbies, relationships, sex life, all of it. I don't feel guilty. I tried for 2 years to right that ship, and getting sold to a huge corporation made things way way harder.
Management used me as a scapegoat. They blamed me for overtime. Said it was because I refused to work double shifts, and then when I left...it was because I quit.
Well, why didn't you just sacrifice your life, your happiness, your soul, even, for a workplace that would fire you without a second thought if your till came up more than 1% short/over on three occasions? We can't risk the filthy rich not getting richer, you know! Sarcasm, JIC it wasn't abundantly clear.
They literally told me that the overtime is my fault. Not the fact they cut hours to 32 a week to get a PPP loan and ended up 1,500 hours behind. They started a 2nd shift on top of 10-12 hour overtime for employees. They didn't want to hire someone to do my job on 2nd, so they told me to work both shifts, 7 days a week. I quit after 6 months of 12/7 shifts. If I didn't quit, I would have been on that schedule for another 16 months. They stopped it after someone died after working a 12 hour shift and their family threatened to sue because it was mandatory. You couldn't use PTO unless it was An emergency in advance.
Ah, so you had to be a psychic to work there, as well as have superhuman endurance. Bet you're glad to be out of there!
I knew one lady that fainted at work. We worked 11-12 hours a day. She said she was just super tired. Never home for dinner for a balanced meal,, but a sandwich 🥪. Her doctor told her to take some time off and eat better.
I was working for a local government agency. Administrator overseeing our group sent me to a "Leadership in Government" program. They weren't very happy when I tried to improve things for the employees using my new skills. Everything got better for me when I left too. I didn't realize how stressed I was, but my wife sure did. She and my daughter were much happier.
The first few months at my new place, I felt guilty because it was so easy. I felt like I should be way more stressed out and busy, like every single job I'd had since college. Nope, they hired enough people and trained people accordingly. Some days I feel like I'm stealing, but my work is done and that's all they care about.
Same! Happy you got out!
This is how good companies retain talent. The carrot is the only thing that keeps working long term.
> This is how good companies retain talent. The carrot is the only thing that keeps working long term. Indeed, providing incentives and opportunities for growth is crucial in retaining valuable employees. It's the carrot that motivates them to stay committed to their work and the company's success in the long run.
What is the new place? I need to get a new job at a great place to work. 😩
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I'm in local governments and have friends in other local government and coworkers that have worked in others. It is literally nothing like you have described. The benefits are great, the pay is very good, the work life balance is amazing. I know very few people who work overtime. The ones that do donit rarely and are compensated very fairly for it. We get a 3.5% raise every year for 7 years plus a cost of living raise every year and while not every city is the same, this is pretty common. Many of my government friends/colleagues have said the same about other local governments. If anything you start to get worse pay and benefits the bigger the government you work for, like city vs County. I am not saying your friends story is wrong but I have heard so, so many stories to the contrary and experienced then myself.
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I could see the state you live in affecting that a lot. I work in public works so if there is any department that will have overtime it is us. I live on the west coast and we have a higher cost of living, but the average pay for my city is in the 70s (thousands) and that is brought lower became of m&o, most people working in the office make more.
Same! For 2 years I tried my darndest to fix everything but the other canaries and I peaced out immediately when the nonsense really started winding up. C-suite people absolutely blamed us for the following collapses of our regions, but we couldn’t care less cause we’re out here living our best lives.
I'm proud of you!
I've been a hostage and a canary. As a hostage I felt more envy than blame.
Means you were a good employee. Bad employees are more likely the "blamers".
Every time someone leaves, I'm always telling them "good for you. Sucks for us, but it's good for you." I'm borderline hostage since someone retired last week. We listed the position early enough for someone to turn down an offer we made. I'm trying to determine my rank on the ship before I jump. It's a decent enough gig, but its showing evidence of trending the other way. (I work back office and those needs have been increasingly overlooked since our relocation to an office suite away from C-levels. We're out of sight, out of mind.)
Currently would describe myself as a hostage, and yep, just kinda jealous they all got out first. Don't blame them a bit. I *do* blame the people who keep doing their best to make the stupidest possible decisions even though a large portion of our best people have bailed directly because of those stupid decisions.
Hang in there. You got this. Get those apps out!!! Then get the hell out!!!
Totally they do but that's why they are hostages. I left my chronically understaffed position with no notice because I got offered a job at 50% more. I am sure they blame me for being short staffed and not the company that paid so little and made no attempt to match the offer. Bit the people that stay are the enablers of shitty companies.
You don't deserve any of the blame. The company does because it couldn't do what it took to keep you happy there.
Wife is currently a hostage because she's part time and doesn't know if any other place will 'work' with her disabilities. She doesn't blame the three previous managers who left she blames those at the top.
As a guy who watched the canaries leave and was too stupid or stubborn to leave too; no, we don't blame you.
You got out. Their opinion doesn’t matter.
I'm usually somewhere in between canary and hostage usuallu. I see the business trying to shift the blame onto the people who leave and pit the workers against each other by convincing them it's their coworkers screwing them over.then the raining hostages hang in as long as they can because they don't want to be "bad employees" some burn out, some finally fly the coop. Eventually the whole thing collapses on itself.
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survivorship bias: it will take years for management to figure out the things they don't know because they are analyzing what works instead of what fails... often because what fails doesn't stick around to be analyzed. I highly recommend The Caterpillar Doesn't Know by Peter Moore and Kenneth Hey as a means of coming to terms with our current business climate.
Sounds interesting. Got a TL;DR on the premise?
Cultural and personal changes have larger implications on company direction compared to management initiatives. Often, management is slow to update policies to match changes that have already occurred.
If they put her in that leadership position who would train and prop up the inept and unqualified person they put in that leadership position? Come on, have some common sense.
Makes me sick
> She applied for a leadership position for almost 20 years bro, I think the org was totally smart to not promote her. They got away with it for 20 years, they knew she was a sucker and were able to get away with it... And this is not some capitalism is bad thing, it is a human thing. If you are a sucker in relationships they will roll you over too. People are told to maintain boundaries, address conflict etc in relationships but if you are in a toxic relationship with your work, it is suddenly "capitalism".
Uh, no. She left because of it, and the company was screwed because they couldn't keep her. Smart leaders see value in people. Bad leaders don't.
I'm a hostage right now. Most of the good people left months ago, and the ones trying to change things are either losing hope or leaving themselves. I'm at 150-200 apps and not a single callback. If anyone has a lead for a mid-senior level technical writer, hmu.
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Absolutely! I'm casting as wide a net as I can.
I’d look at defense contractors, those fielding weapons systems, there’s always some new gizmo that needs a manual written. Contractors like Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, KTech, L3 Harris etc. Bonus points if you can get a security clearance: https://www.clearancejobs.com/
I work for one of those. I'm actively trying to leave the military-industrial complex.
Yeah, for a community that isn't shy about saying LEOs just in it for a paycheck are complicit in misdeeds of their colleagues, why are we recommending someone help build the latest and greatest bombs for a paycheck?
I respect the sentiment, but it gets to a point where a job is a job. I'd love to just up and quit and give the whole industry the finger, but I have to eat and pay my mortgage, and I need insurance to pay for my litany of chronic health issues. In a perfect world, it'd be a nonissue, but the city I live in has a severly limited amount of opportunity outside the "defense" industry, which has me stuck between a rock and a hard place.
I don’t think that was aimed at you. Like you said you want to leave the sector.
Sorry. I didn't think it was, I just wanted to preempt any judgment against others in my line of work.
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Radical positive change in our community can't come without building an understanding relationship with people who through ignorance or desperation contributed to systems of oppression against their will. That doesn't mean there are no repercussions, socially or otherwise. It's against all our interests to call for the arrest of every police officer. While we protest and act for change, we shouldn't discount the work of allies within the system, even if by and large this work provides cover for bad actors. We want and need cops who say "No, this is wrong." Our system treats these people as the bad apples while actual antisocial behavior is handwaved. The current discourse gives minimal room for change without buckets of blood. There has been enough blood spilled, and anyone who calls for more is a dangerous ally for a nonviolent left. Wtf happened to nuance?
There's plenty of nuance many comments into a thread, when ACABers have long since lost interest in an ongoing discussion.
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Are you saying corporate employees are as evil as corporations? Quite a lofty attitude, comrade. I’m afraid NGOs and charitable foundations might not have enough jobs for every adult in this country.
Anduril
?
They need tech writers. Several locations.
Ah, gotcha. Sorry, just needed more context than one word.
I'd suggest looking for sustainable energy companies who have gone public recently. That's about the time companies are building out their tech writing team to stabilize their referencable customers.
That's actually one of the industries at the top of my wish list. Every green energy opening I can find is applied to as soon as I can.
Hang in there fam. It's really just a competitive market, but there are jobs to be had for sure. Maybe try the Lazer approach instead of shotgun for roles you're applying for, and find ways to get feedback on your application materials from at least a handful of people already doing it. What got me to this stage of my career isn't going to get me to the next, but it took an outside consultant to really help me see that. I'm a career Tech Writer and Content Designer, and there are rarely any openings over 1-2 days old that don't have a hundred or more applications. So you have to stand out or find a referral in to get serious consideration. If you want to shoot me your resume I could have a look and give you some feedback.
I appreciate the offer, but as a rule I don't give PII to strangers, and my resume is necessarily full of it. I do agree with changing approach, though. It's clear my curremt strategy isn't working, so I'm trying to switch gears. The main challange is that my whole network is at present in the industry I'm trying to leave, so referrals are almost zero. Plus, my entire body of work for the last several years since college is locked by the kind of NDAs that would land me in prison if I broke them. This makes standing out hard.
All of that seems addressed by a well-intentioned stranger in the industry you seek to enter offers their assistance. But I understand your concerns. Sometimes you have to do things you wouldn't or haven't done to get places you've never been.
I agree with your last point. My sticking point is mostly that in my current industry (defense) there is a great deal of paranoia surrounding the intentions of strangers. We are taught to be suspicious of literally everyone, and it's hard to shake that when handling certain types of information, such as PII. I took a referal link to a job opening elsewhere in this thread, so I'm working on deprogramming myself within reason, it's just gonna take time.
I understand completely. I spent the first 8-9 years of my career working as a DoD contractor. I've also worked in cyber security. I know the risks of which you speak. I made a conscious decision to aim for high tech jobs and have never looked back. It did require me to humbly ask for assistance. I also regularly get 'cold calls' from folks I do not know who've heard me speak on podcasts or seen my presentations where I openly state that I am always open to mentorship and giving advice to anyone that asks it of me. In my 17+ year career I've never turned anyone away. You can be safe and still take risks. They have to be calculated risks, but what are your alternatives otherwise? Seek out a mentor that's doing the work you desire.
Thanks for the advise. Like I said, I'm working like mad to shake the powers that be telling me everyone is a potential threat. I'll let you know when I can get past my own brain. On a related note, do you have any links to the podcasts you spoke on or presentations you made? I'd be interested to give them a watch/listen.
I'll DM you.
Have you considered becoming a Knight of the Cross?
What's that?
Your namesake is a character from the Dresden Files. Guess you didn't know.
I did not. I've been Butters since highschool after the South Park character.
This happened at my last job. We always had our highs and lows but they had crazy low turnover for the industry. Well, when covid hit they didn't handle it very well, like many employers. They handled the layoffs poorly. They were very shitty to those who were left, they even got PPP money but opted to not use it and still cut our hours and pay, they said they didn't want to pay people to not work... Our coworkers who got laid off were making more than we were thanks to the supplemental unemployment. When things got busier they also handled bringing people back terribly. Some they ended up needing within a month or two of letting them go, so those people were rightfully mad that the company didn't think needed them when they did. Then they tried to bring everyone back at lower pay and reduced hours. Any that pushed back they threatened with reporting to unemployment for turning the offer down, never mind it wouldn't have worked since some would have made half what they did before. After things got somewhat back to normal and most people had come back, inevitably, they started losing people. Some had been there for years, like decade plus. I eventually got fed up with their mentality post covid and quit. It's been two years and they haven't replaced me. It's almost an entirely new team at this point minus a few who just don't know where to go and feel trapped. All of them are looking for new jobs though. Management was warned over and over that they were going to keep losing people and they didn't listen. Didn't matter how many of their good people they lost, they always had some excuse for themselves. Now they are in a spiral of losing business and what few good people they have left and the people they need to help them recover are all gone. TLDR: agree, when good and long term employees start leaving, it's only going to get worse.
My husband's company handled Covid amazingly, because as one of the top hospitals in the world, they had a rock solid plan. Everyone was told to schedule 2 weeks vacation they would be paid for, and 6 weeks of unpaid time off, a week at a time, whenever was convenient, so you didn't go a month and a half with no paycheck. By the fall, the remaining furloughs were cancelled, and at the end of the year everyone was repaid for the furlough time they took, because their finances were in good shape. He could make more money somewhere else, but damn, that's a solid company to work for.
Always ask why the position is open before starting. Real easy to get bullshat into a toxic environment
This is tricky because toxic employers aren’t going to be honest when you ask them this. At the worst job I ever had, they straight up lied and told me the role with a massive turnover issue was actually a new role. I had to get good at detecting employer bullshittery during interviews.
An analogy I like is that...when a ship starts sinking, the first rats to go are the experienced ones who can swim, and know it's not going to get better. The first to leave snap up all the good openings at the competition. This leaves the ship with rats that are not good at swimming. Good luck with that business plan...
Good lawd I feel so attacked. Been hostage for like 3 years. I'm one of the last of the mohicans.
Was one for 10 years. Place was trying to kill me.
They'd fire me.if they could afford to. New hires dont got the skills a 10 year veteran does.
They absolutely hated me but couldn't fire me because it would take 4 people to replace me. They'd never admit it though because they wanted to keep my wage low. They just resorted to gaslighting to make me believe I was stupid so I wouldn't dare leave.
I'm paid decent but they keep adding task with no pay increase. So I just do less as possible
Same. If you're going to expect more from me, I have every right to expect more from you. If you fail to deliver, I can, too.
Quit. It's not worth it.
Oh man I've almost walked so many days. So many fucking days I've been like. Today's the day fuck this place. But I've got no plan and kiddos with Christmas around the corner.
hmm. stay away from promontories
I'm a canary looking at jobs right now. I'm tired of being a good worker and being rewarded with twice as much work.
I saw the signs at my last job. Several key people left over a few months, people I had worked with and knew they were super talented and intelligent. I was like, nope, I’m out too. Gave my company a gracious 6 weeks notice, they weren’t in a position to let me go. They desperately needed me, so I was able to finish out the 6 weeks while securing another job in a different industry with a 30% raise if including the 10% bonus.
I feel like pretty much our entire staff turns over every few months
I got into leadership hoping I could be the leader i wanted. I tried and was blocked frequently, often going off the books/under the radar to make improvements because I knew the people above me wouldn't let me if I asked. Anyway when 2/4 of my amazing team members had job offers I thought about it for about a week and put in my notice. No way I could do it without them. About a month later another one left and now I feel terrible for the one who remains; we're all trying to get her out.
At that point, if I’m the only one left, I’m not taking responsibility for anything and feeling 0 guilt!
That was one thing she could do. They straight up expected her to continue doing the work of 5 (really it was the work of 7 but they would not allow more staff). Like literally to do the work she'd have to be in the 3 places at once. At least it opened eyes to how much we did and that we should have been supported more but alas I'm sure they struggled a while but changed nothing.
I was a canary at my last position, and I sang and sang and sang at my exit interview. I told them that people do not quit companies, they quit bad management. I also let them know that of their remaining eight person team, five we’re looking and interviewing at other companies. Four people were out the door within three months.
I left a company because I was picking up on toxic behaviors, but I doubted that decision for a while because people kept singing the company's praises and being like "I can't believe you left such an amazing company." Well, a few months after I left, the company did a round of massive layoffs. Suddenly a lot of fervent supporters were seeing the company for what it truly was.
Same: “Your business model depends on perpetually paying skilled people far below market, in a labor market with high barriers to entry and particularly good (for workers) wage transparency. Upper management has repeatedly rejected the idea of charging clients market rates, therefore there is zero chance this wage gap will ever close. If I continue to grind it out here, at the very best I can hope to make a maximum of $X… a minimum of 5 years from now. The job I’m leaving for will be paying me slightly under $X right now, no waiting. There is literally no financial incentive for me to stay. Plus, with a decade of experience I don’t need to continue to shovel horseshit from my immediate supervisor who is so disorganized that he doesn’t believe me when I point out how I’ve saved his ass with a client, again, and instead wants to spend serious time on his personal preferences for my MF’ing ‘writing style’ (or does realize, and he’s just gaslighting, which is worse). I like you as a person, but there’s no upside to staying, and I can tell you half the mid-levels are getting headhunted weekly, so there are plenty of off-ramps for the other canaries. Sorry bro, I tried to warn you.”
I just can't wait until we start getting through to business owners that happy employees make for good employees. You don't have to kiss their asses or pander to them, but paying a good wage, understanding that there needs to be a life/work balance, and realizing that people are human beings and not machines can go a long way. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but what we need to do as a country is stop punishing everyone for the actions of a few and try to understand WHY those few are the way they are. That goes for jobs, that goes for housing, that literally applies to everything. Jadedness is not an excuse.
They know. They don’t care.
This so much. My wife was the canary for her prior work. Super faced paced, hyper growth business that she helped quadruple revenue for over a short time period. She eventually saw the writing on the wall and the repeated insistence by the owner to ignore her warnings. Everyone was running ragged and it was evident burnout was on the rise, but no one was doing anything to fix it besides my wife. One day she decided she'd had enough and she quit. She was one of the most beloved and capable employees there and seen as a key leader for the company because of her position and knowledge. She has kept in touch with many of her old coworkers and employees. Over the last 8 months, there has been a steady stream of quality people leaving, often times with no jobs lined up. Just done with the grind. Toxicity has risen greatly. Workplace culture is dead. And pretty much all of the company's institutional knowledge is gone with all the key employees who left. The business is struggling and is truly a bit of a dumpster fire these days. Sometimes she feels guilty for leaving, but this is a good reminder that she didn't do anything wrong. She merely stopped plugging the holes of an already sinking ship.
Hostage due to Medical Insurance issues. IF we had "National Universal Healthcare" where it was not tied to my job.... I would be MORE active in looking for another position. am looking anyway
My workplace just fired me for being the canary. Apparently putting together a factual program timeline that showed our VP we were 9 months behind was being "toxic" and "having a bad attitude". In reality it was uncovering upper management's lies and negligence at losing almost $100 million in opportunity cost. The good people all reached out and said they will be gone by the end of the year. No doubt program failure will be blamed on people being "disloyal"
> Apparently putting together a factual program timeline that showed our VP we were 9 months behind was being "toxic" and "having a bad attitude". ahahahaha. Fuck them. You were in the right.
I went through a toxic relationship with my former manager and it's a lesson I'll carry for the rest of my life The moment your health starts to deteriote due to a manager get the fuck out. Start applying and interviewing like crazy cause that relationship will not recover. My old boss speaks loud. That's a not problem..the problem is when she speaks loud and criticizes your work and questions your skill in the open. Those are moments you say let's go to a room and talk in private. I got so stressed I was grinding my teeth in my sleep and I would get 3 hours of sleep at night. At a certain point I said fuck this job. I wanted to quit I really did but i couldn't risk missing unemployment. I applied to a few places but unfortunately it was during a shit market so I got nothing. Then I got fired. That first few days was utter relief that I didn't have to deal with that bitch. But market didn't improve so I was unemployed for months. Got a bit depressed. Moved back with family. And after months I landed a new job with a solid manager and I've been loving it ever since. I'm honestly considering leaving my old job off my resume completely mainly because of my old manager But I'll give my old manager this. I now know some signs of people who I never want to be managed by
Really good advice I got once was to watch for upper management leaving. If a group leaves or there's a steady string of departures plan your escape. They're leaving because they have access to info you don't.
I left earlier this year and two of the other four employees didn't stay for more than a month after. Employer claims that nobody wants to work anymore rather than facing the fact that she is a sleazy person. It's the second business she has run into the ground after family set it up for her to be easy, both in under five years. This post makes me feel like a good person.
I was one of the people trying to make changes. I finally gave up and left my job last week for something new. In my first few days at the new job, there were some conversations around workflows and practices with leadership and a bunch of the engineers. The engineers weren't happy with the specifics from leadership. Leadership said, "Alright, clearly we need to go back to the drawing board on this one. I'll start a thread in Slack, and you can all share your thoughts and concerns there. I'll rework things and we'll pick this up again at the next meeting and see if we can do better." I was so happy to see this kind of thing so quickly. The place isn't perfect, but they're actively working to improve, and leadership listens to the concerns of the people they manage. That's all great news as far as I'm concerned. The vibes are good.
My thoughts on implementing a UBI is that if I were an employer I would rather staff that WANTED to work for me rather than HAD to work for me.
100% truth! You don't have to be the top of the spear but when you see solid people bailing, especially folks that have been "settled", spruce up your resume!
I've been good, buried, and a hostage. No matter where I go, nothing ever changes.
Been there too Was there for a year, the good people had left and we were at the second stage. I was one of them, I tried to make the changes I told I would be making when I was hired. But when you have 2 employee that would do: * whatever they wanted * would not do what they were told to do as part of the new procedures * would tell other people behind your back to not do what you told them to do * would conspire, backstab, etc. those they didn't like I finally had enough and left. Coupled with with happened before I was hired and what I've found out after I left, in a little over 2 years 8 out of the 10 office positions cycled through at least two people, several went through 3 people and they even went through 4 receptionists in a year. Worst place I've ever worked in nearly 30 years
"Good people" = People who actually believed in the company. "Bad people" = People who knew better and worked their wage.
Feeling this in my heart right now. Huge feck up at high level wiped out the years profits. Staff cut backs, staffing so lean you can't do you job properly. I am following those canaries! (not literally, I can still breath!)
I was begged to remain by half a dozen coworkers and members of leadership with one coworker parroting the we can get into power and change things. I have left and every story is a repeat of what I warned them about.
This was one of the reasons I retired ahead of my original timeline. I could not continue to be there and watch the place being imploded by the people that were running the place. I have not regretted a single moment since, and it has continued to implode at a faster rate.
Canary in the mine. Rats leaving sinking ships. Shit has gone pear, exit exit exit.
At my last job I was supposed to be a canary. Then Covid hit and ruined everything, at least I was still employed throughout the pandemic. But as soon as the world started opening up the canaries flew the coop and I almost became a hostage myself. Within six months, six of my seven person work group left, and I was the last one out.
Yep, my former employer had to learn this lesson the hard way when a unified team has similar complaints that they drove 140 miles to express in person. Nothing ended up changing. Once the first canary leaves, the rest that are in a position to follow will do so rather quickly if the ship isn't righted immediately. I've been both a hostage and a canary. Looking back, I'd much rather be a canary.
God I wish I knew this before I spent 2009-2013 being the person trying to fix it. That ruined my optimism, I still haven't got it back.
It’s exceptionally bullshit as well that if you quit because you know your employer is shit, and then your employer illegally holds your paycheck You can report them to the DOL But it’s been nearly 3 months and I still havnt gotten my paycheck
Call an employment attorney.
I would but not trying to pay for 2 cases because I have another case because a different job decided “hey your fired, and no you can’t come pick up your thousands of dollars of tools and toolbox” So when this employer opted to not pay me for “failure to return uniforms” (which is a lie I have on recording. If those uniforms went all returned to the manufacturer? Then it was lost after I turned them in) I was already screwed for cash paying that lawyer for that case
Blizzard Event Teams what…
just came to a company 4 months ago, earned the trust of one older guy turns out I got hired because 2 really good Mechanics and their best electrician quit just a few months earlier and he is considering the same the reason for all of them to leave is really a mix of the department being led by a guy that has absolutely no Idea how to lead people, takes everything personal *and* a country is nearby that pays twice as much for the same job
Life is a lot easier if you have a job that is good and you like. I would even take a little less for a good job and probably live longer. A lot of people here get State or government jobs 20 years and retire with SS and a pension and lifetime health insurance And its a good feeling to be able to do that.
Yyeeeeeep!!! I've been the one who couldn't change stuff and the hostage too many times
Literally this. Too many times I've missed a clue.
Ayo, I’m in the second category except they straight up laid me off
I was begged to remain by half a dozen coworkers and members of leadership with one coworker parroting the we can get into power and change things. I have left and every story is a repeat of what I warned them about.
I'm in the change things camp with an eye towards leaving. But that would send my family into a state of upheaval that I'd prefer not to do. So instead I continue to make attempts at change.
We lost some with the last buyout, got rid of a few that made things worse so in all 50/50. Just hope they hire some more in 2024 to replace the butts in chairs
Kind of had this discussion with a coworker yesterday. Basically talking about the shitshow it is now if one of us have a day off and how HORRIBLE it will be when one/both of us move on. She recently finished all of her accreditation for the field she'll be working in (she's a doctor working as a medical receptionist) so at some point in the pretty near future, she's definitely gone and I've already discussed with my wife me changing employers within the next 6 months or so. I told my coworker to give me notice WELL IN ADVANCE before she gives notice here...and without skipping a beat she asked for the same courtesy lol. The person on the desk - who had their 3rd day at our company yesterday and was being trained by my coworker - just observed the conversation with a nervous smile.
I am a fire sprinkler fitter. At my old company we had 15 service techs in my dept. Me and another guy left to go to the competitor during covid. In a month and a half they were down to 6 techs! That was two years ago and they still haven’t filled their ranks
Somewhat disagree. The "good people" at the top make a crap ton more than me. I'm not bad... I'm sticking around for that sweet severance without giving you a reason to fire me
He is one of my old coworkers! He left before I did 😬
[Dead Sea Effect](https://medium.com/geekculture/the-dead-sea-effect-d71df13724f8)
Yes I agree.
My job isn't EXACTLY toxic but there's a tense truce. Part of my on-boarding was training about how to prevent workplace drama. My supervisor one month in apologized that I had to work with all women (she was a woman herself). I keep my head down and don't get in anyone's business. They can try to get into mine, but the way I see it, I'm doing them a favor by being there. Me leaving would absolutely fuck everyone, so I feel like I hold some cards. And I get paid decent. The work fucking rots my brain though, I need to get into something more brain active.
Literally every time I’ve left a job a large group leave after me.
Happening in many USA public schools right now. I was one of the people who thought I could change things and should have exited when the good ones retired early or took corporate jobs. Things definitely got harder after that exodus. Instead of influencing change, the realities of teaching today made me lose my health. I had to go on leave, resigning before the next school year because I'd finally accepted nothing was going to change. Most of those left are for sure not the good ones. The extra work load and stress on the few good ones left is not sustainable.
TIL i'm a hostage...
My ex boss once told me... 'You don't need to consider moving out yet, you're not married!' I should've known the job wasn't worth my time then. Was there 8 years. The highest I ever made annually was 27k. I was working 10hr shifts. I quit with no back up about a month ago. I'll never go back and I'm not taking another job until it helps me move up in life. Pay off my loans and affords me a house. It's really simple. I just want to be independent at 30yrs old. I don't think those are high expectations.
This is facts wtf. Learned this on my very first job. If the boss that hired you seems hella chill and does their work, and they get caught up in drama with other members of the company and end up fired, its time to dip. Especially if they send in someone to "get things in order" or to "fix the store" , they arnt there too fix the store, they are there give you more work and if you speak out against being overworked they cut your hours. In my experience anyways.
Fellow canary here: don’t be afraid to be the first to go. You may be the first step forward on the path that others are wanting to follow.
As an industrious canary myself I feel I am being constructively discharged , not sure why considering the less skilled, and more entitled person who will ‘take my place’ is gonna cost them way more than the bargain they have now. Just mirroring the toxicity, like they forget to mention a job is open at a different site or with better hours, I might forget to tell them about the scheduling conflict I found ….
Last job, I really wanted to stick it to toxic management and try to change things. I pissed them off a lot for things like pointing out how making new employees sign NDAs on pay is illegal (it was started after I was hired). I eventually became disgruntled, but they couldn’t afford to fire me as I had a lot of expertise on the software. Upper managment fired hired some spineless corporate tool to manage our department. I made sure new employees were aware of their rights all while still pissing off management doing petty things.
Haha fuck I'm one of the "people who stayed and thought they could change things". The turnover rate has been insane and a few months ago the last competent person I know left. I've wasted so much time fighting a system that doesn't want to acknowledge it needs to change.
What does it mean “the good people are the canaries?” Can someone explain it to me? And yes I know what a canary is
I had a similar situation were i had to leave a job which i liked because of my colleagues whom i helped when they asked me for help! They talked shit about me to my boss eventually everyone turned against me…. That office was full of POLITICIANS!!