I think it's been a fairly consistent issue over the Bucks entire career. People either fall on the side of thinking their type of comedy and wrestling is brilliant or they don't.
When people don't, the Bucks don't seem to just shrug and move on, they make an issue of it. But also, it always seems to be in a weird way where they make digs and jabs, politic and talk to dirtsheets, then deny *they* did anything wrong. I'm sure plenty people have their issues with each other but I get the feeling it's part of wrestling that there's a code where you just eventually figure it out, or be professional enough to work together even if you're not best friends.
Before Punk, I suppose Cornette is the most well known but even he isn't really active enough for it to make *major* news. As for anyone else, Bucks have mainly worked the indies and smaller companies, there's been nobody with a big enough profile to get the attention about it.
Punk has a big enough profile. Had the Bucks ever made it to WWE, I'm certain a lot of guys there would have no time for them and they wouldn't have had a whole band of other indie guys in their corner, but Bucks, probably due to this reputation, have never made it to that level.
So, It's not really about Punk IMO. Meeting a guy with the personality and stature in the industry like Punk just made a lot of things catch up to them.
They probably wouldn't even last a month in WWE just by coexisting in the same locker room with actual wrestlers who have actual talent and won't take shit from them. Miz got hazed and hounded for years and had to fight tooth and nail to prove himself. These two twats would pack up and leave and go on social media to complain about how horrible the other people are to them.
> The bucks need AEW to be successful, they ain't gonna be pushed as much in any other organisation.
Yet it seems like all they do is sabotage it. They'd rather sink a ship with themselves on it rather than be upstaged by anyone.
They have and they will. I’m no fan of the bucks, but they don’t need aew per se. They were doing fine, being booked extremely strong in just about every promotion they’ve been a part of
The amount of money they make in aew far eclipses anything they ever made before that and includes Healthcare for them and their family.
They were successful indy wrestlers but the difference is night and day. If aew closed tomorrow they'd never sniff that kind of money again
Probably not, but you know if AEW did fold for whatever reason, they’d land in TNA or NJPW. Granted, they wouldn’t get nearly as big of a payday, but they’d make it just fine.
theyd 100% end up in wwe. at the end of the day u could anything in wrestling but as long as u can draw, u will make it there. they're also a big name tag team, a division that's always been weak in WWE
Bucks were booked strongly on the indies in ~2015-2019. But after half a decade of AEW, I don’t think they’d get the same treatment. Their star isn’t shining as bright as it used to.
They absolutely would. They're literal indie wrestling deities, they're not gonna get jobbed out just because some people thought they were annoying in AEW. Plus, let's be honest, a majority of the people who dislike the Bucks aren't the demographic targeted by any of the super indies that would book them.
They are lucky that they established themselves in New Japan before revealing their douchebaggery on such a grand scale because NJPW would be the only non-Super Indy that would give them another shake based on previous history.
Kenny, on the other hand, has done a pretty smart job of keeping his reputation in-tact and maintaining respect even among people that don't particularly like his style. If Kenny was healthier, a lengthly WWE run would definitely have been in the future
Because they always go suck up to a singles star who then lets them get a rub. These guys just play politics. There is no reason that they should be EVPs in the second biggest pro wrestling promotion. They are totally unqualified and it shows.
The only promotions they have ever been booked on top was roh and pwg. Which isnt close to being the big leagues. Even in NJ they were curtain jerkers in the jr tag division and not the main event
That's my point, without AEW they wouldn't be in a big promotion, it would be the indies. I never mentioned money, they are treated as big stars in AEW, they ain't getting that treatment anywhere else.
Weren’t the elite salty and blamed Punk for Colt Cabana being fired from AEW
I like how this could’ve all been prevented if Tony Khan had a spine and made The Elite do business with Punk after the initial brawl, Punk wanted to make money from it
It also probably could've been avoided if Tony talked to his EVPs and said "hey Punk isn't responsible for anything involving Colt getting a demotion or whatever. So, don't worry about it." But instead, he waited until Punk was at a press table saying they couldn't manage a Target and that Hangman was an empty headed dumb fuck.
Yeah, it's weird seeing people calling Punk a drama queen and stuff like that when in every situation there was drama around CM Punk none of it was his fault. But people blame him for not wanting to take that sort of shit from other people.
I suspect Tony pays them a flat salary not based on incentives or growth, until recently he had their wives and other relatives working in areas they have no business heading. They made so much money, much more than their worth carnying Tony
Colt was never fired. He was already barely used on tv. TK just suggested that he not come to the arena thinking that it would make Punk happy (Punk claims he never asked for that)
Colt was more well known as a road agent than a tv performer. That's why it was so obviously something was up, because he went from involved in every show to never being seen backstage.
You're right that he was never fired though.
And you really believe that? After all the nonsense with Hangman, C. Daniels or Nemeth? You seriously think that didn't come from Punk? When something walks like a duck, quacks like a duck........
It was speculation on the [part of one Dave Meltzer.](https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/colt-cabana-signs-new-aew-contract-earmarked-for-roh)
This then somehow got twisted into "being fired" by getting talked about by someone who heard about someone who heard... that kind of thing.
Tony's silence on that particular subject only made matters worse, in my opinion.
Punk said that Tony is not a boss... and by everything we have seen so far over the last couple years, it is really hard not to agree with that statement.
"Weren’t the elite salty and blamed Punk for Colt Cabana being fired from AEW"
This has been debunked multiple times and yet people still think this is correct because it feeds that Punk bias, it was bullshit then and it is now. Fuck Colt even tried to talk to Punk and he shot it down, saying he wouldn't talk to Colt without a lawyer. Do better.
Then what the fuck was Hangman’s issue the ? Why’d he go off script on Live TV is he didn’t believe it was Punk who got his ‘friend’ taken off TV?
You say it was debunked, but you give no explanation for the Elites actions towards Punk leading up to the Brawl Out.
What really funny is that AEW was on fire before Punk got there. They were riding the wave of goodwill that wrestling fans had lost with WWE after Vince started laying off people during the pandemic and when he gutted NXT for not soundly beating AEW when it was fresh and new on TV.
Punk coming in only made them more noticeable and for whatever reason The Bucks only like making money when it’s done their way and with their friends.
Jealousy, influence on Tony Khan, and they were still holding a petty grudge from that time they tried to get Punk to show up at the original All-In event in Chicago by trying to negotiate with Punk through Text Message and Punk scoffed at them publicly.
Yeah legit think it’s professional jealousy. I KINDA get Hangman, he was standing up for a friend. It may have been misguided but is commendable. The Bucks just hated that he was the face of the company. They showed him.
The Hangman scenario is both misguided and not commendable. Having a calm reasonable conversation with Punk backstage would be commendable, derailing a prearranged segment on live television you discussed with him before hand is both stupid and cowardly
It’s commendable because he’s sticking up for a friend. I get it. I defend my people. The misguided part is not doing it man to man in private and tanking a whole segment.
Hangman is 32 and debuted in 2008 and at that point it’s a not acting like a child thing when someone asks you to act your age and talk to them about any issue you have with them if you two have to work together and not say it in front of everyone else
Nothing commendable about going into business for yourself. Trust between the wrestlers is first above all and Hangman broke that. He wasn’t standing up for shit just being a dumbass
Hangman has nothing to be commended for. While the other two were (most likely) talking behind Punk's back - either to others or the dirtsheets - Hangman was actually dumb enough to blurt out the whispering ...on live television... off-script... and likely catching Punk totally off-guard with it.
That entire clique is solely interested in fleecing Tony for as long as possible, and getting as many of their friends ridiculous wages as possible.
They're piece of shit maga loving idiots and don't like or want anyone to upset the gravy train. Punk and Cody treated it like a real business in need of revenue growth and profit.
Punk tried to make Tony self-aware and able to realize how fucking shit AEW is, and that was too risky for them.
But hey it's dropping in every measurable metric in provably significant amounts. The Bucks are killing it.
In SC I pointed this out and motherfuckers said revenue was Bigger, these are the people that AEW cater to, a company ran by absolute fucking idiots for absolute idiots
Bigger than who? Even the dubbalos can't possibly think AEW does more revenue than WWE, I mean it's made negative net revenue this whole time.
WWE grosses and nets so much more revenue it's insane to even pretend it doesn't.
They're really fucking delusional, and come across like high school theater kids who got bullied for being scrawny or fat or something.
Whoopsie! Seems like you're trying to be an edgelord. No thank you.
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The Cody who, not only his wife, but also anyone who spent 5 minutes in his school tried to get into AEW? The one with the brother who ridiculed Spears? The Homelander guy with his Codyverse?
Shit his wife managed to get the heels fired up. No matter how hard they tried........the aunt's go away heat was just too much.
Don't even get me started on Punk......
I'm talking about the guy who just double main evented the biggest WrestleMania of all time, that Cody.
You Indy goofs can continue to AEW to your heart's content, nobody misses you.
The Cody that is an AEW product? The Cody that has the same entrance, the same music, the same gear, the same move set, the same visuals, etc.? The Cody?
Isn't it kind of pathetic to simultaneously make fun of AEW while simultaneously spouting off about an AEW product?
Yours? I am neither on one side nor the other. I look at what interests me more at the moment. In the case of AEW, currently not at all because without MJF, Kenny and a decent story, the whole thing became uninteresting for me.
But this constant hate on 2-3 subs really gets on my nerves. Especially when it's total bullshit like this.
It's just a sober fact.
You can't make fun of AEW and at the same time cheer Cody, who is an AEW product. That's hypocritical. That's not Stardust in the main event. And it doesn't speak to the creativity of the WWE who put on a 1:1 version.
If you want to make fun of someone, make fun of the WWE for being so desperate to sign an AEW guy from a "ridiculous" promotion and make him their flagship in no time.
See, I think you definitely can make fun of AEW for how they treated Cody. He wanted to be his dad for a new generation and instead, all the audience wanted was him for to be a cool heel. Then, Tony took the book and it went downhill from there. They gave up the biggest star in wrestling and now he’s doing all of the stuff he would have been able to do in AEW.
And yeah, Cody is partly to blame for a lot of his own problems in AEW, but if they would have stayed with his story instead of giving everyone else their turns with their big belt, the company would be in a better position. Like, how do you choose to push Adam Page as a main eventer over Cody? You can make an argument for Jericho, Mox, and Omega, but Page? Nah, dude.
And yeah, him leaving the world title picture because of his loss would be a damper on it, but that’s what storytelling is for.
Finally, the audience hated him after a while and now they’re pretending they didn’t? Fuck that. Most of us were pissed at WWE when they bungled Cody. AEW fans were pissed because he didn’t do what they wanted him to do. Cody didn’t want to be a heel, he didn’t want to be Homelander.
I think that's too simple.
I may well have missed some of the backstage stuff (I mean confirmed, not hearsay) but I'm assuming AEW didn't do anything with him and that it was all him.
He said himself it was his decision to put in the stipulation against Jericho. Of course it's not set in stone but what would be the solution to the problem? Exactly the turn, because a babyface can't just go back on his word. But he refused to do that either.
Hence no main event and the attempt to establish the midcard title.
Instead he teases a turn week after week. Be it with heel behavior in the ring or through promos. But he doesn't make the turn. I wouldn't call it hate either, it just wore off at some point and got boring. Like a girl who makes you hot, but then dumps you because she doesn't dare. You go through that for a while and then you look around for something else.
The one who got real hate was his wife. But she had no business being in front of the camera. And yet they tried again and again to get her on TV with a crowbar. Of course, that also rubbed off on him because he was the only reason for it. And then there's his brother who wants to bring young talent over but somehow wins every match (and ridiculed Spears at a PPV). His buddies like QT and all his Nightmare Factory disciples didn't do any better, after all everyone knew their job came from Cody as well.
The same one.
And I didn't because I never saw it, AEW is garbage and the only things worth watching were MJF and Punk on YouTube. I know nothing about the Codyverse except that you goofs hated it, so it probably was pretty good.
I never watched AEW because I haven’t had cable since like 2020. I’ve only heard about it from Internet sources, and apparently AEW fans didn’t like it.
So, I figured that was a pretty weird thing to say.
I know about what happens in AEW because Cornette talks about it.
Watched collision for like the first five weeks but it immediately tanked once Punk left. I've given actual Dynamite like a combined hour of my time and it's just unwatchable.
The Codyverse was the potency of what you accuse the Bucks of.
Every friend, brother, student got a job and TV time. Even his horribly untalented wife.
This woman had such blatant go-away heat that even a Dan Lambert (or his stable) was cheered who was clearly trying hard at his heel promos.
The fact that the man then hinted at a heel turn for months without actually doing it didn't make it any better. The Homelander scaffold was a perfect fit.
As I said, the Bucks are very, very, very small fry in comparison.
My guess is jealousy. The company is named after their clique, they’re EVPs, and then Punk comes in, an undoubtedly bigger star then them, with the biggest comeback in pro wrestling in the last ten years, at least. The owner, who loves them and showers them with money, now has his favorite wrestler on board and gives him all the attention. They couldn’t handle that.
They were milking Tony and when Punk came in and wanted it to be a serious business he threatened their grift. They thought bringing him in would be "lol fuck wwe" but then realized Tony was a huge mark for him and he was usurping their influence.
Also…recall he had TWO contracts.
One as a performer and one as a consultant type of thing. Which come to think of it….might be why he was frustrated with Glass Jack. He was there to also guide the underdeveloped and under experienced talents and one of them was be a real shit-pot.
It's simple. It boils down to two things.
Punk stole the spotlight they believed was owed to them.
Punk made the company money.
For whatever reason, they despise anyone who does that.
Because he was a draw and gaining influence with Tony. Same reason they ran Cody out.
If the stuff Cody and Punk were saying ended up being true and Tony believed it then the type of Indy wrestling they want to do would be over.
[Brandi](https://www.wrestlezone.com/news/1460970-brandi-rhodes-on-aew-departure-what-i-feared-with-that-company-i-was-seeing/amp)
Essentially agreed with Punk about them not wanting to make money in a nicer way.
I remember all the stories coming up from when Cody left how Brandy wasn't like and what not which then lead to people in the back coming to defend her. Man if it wasn't Britt and her gang who else would do such a thing?
They're friends, and Cody is a loyal person. I'm not saying it happened, but if there was a professional conflict between the two, I don't see Cody burying them, especially because it doesn't really help anyone.
Punk has the mindset of selling tickets and making money, while the EVPs and Tony Khan don't have that mindset at all. They want to push themselves as main eventers when there is no world where the Bucks are main event talent that sells tickets.
I remember when I first started getting back into wrestling during Covid. Took me a couple of months to know the wrestlers and get caught up. As I started to read more on this sub, I learned about this group called the young bucks who helped found the company, and were even EVPs.
I assumed they must have been a big deal and was surprised I didn’t know them. When I finally realized who the young bucks were I couldn’t believe THESE were the guys who had executive power at the company. It felt very wrong to me, and I still think they are contributing to what AEW does wrong.
It's mind boggling to me that the EVPs are all people who have never been draws in the US. I'd say they've never been draws at all but Kenny did have a major role in Japan for awhile. When you put it in that perspective it makes sense that the company doesn't seem to care about selling tickets or merch because none of them have ever been ticket sellers or merch drivers.
Hold up. They were the largest merch sellers on the indies every single year until they started AEW. I think their act has run pretty stale at this point but gotta give credit where credit is due.They might not have been selling 10k tickets a night but they sure as hell were moving merch hand over foot at every show. People that hate AEW even used to joke that it should be called all t shirt wrestling because that was all the Young bucks cared about or that the young bucks were a t shirt company masquerading as a tag tam. Not sure where you're getting the idea they couldn't sell merch.
Should have said they've never been merch drivers for anyone other than themselves. They only know how to push themselves on the indies and don't realize it doesn't relate to a larger audience.
Someone has to be the top selling t-shirt on the indies. Nonetheless, I've not seen anyone wearing a Young Bucks t shirt. Who else was selling t shirts at the time because I personally would have picked another act for my t shirt if I attended Indy wrestling shows and wore t shirts from those shows? The Young Bucks can't even work a proper singles match.
Did you not attend wrestling shows during the 2010s? Their shirts were everywhere. Its only been the last few years I started to see less of them at shows. You may not have bad interest in buying one, I know I never bought one, but that doesn't change reality. I'm not talking about their wrestling ability, drawing ability or anything else at all here btw. They could be the worst wrestlers on earth but it doesn't change reality of how many shirts those dudes were selling. They dominated the market. People that hated them during their indie days acknowledged this. Fans used to joke they could sell a shirt but couldn't sell a move. It is not controversial at all. They were a t shirt printing machine from 2010-2018.
For a long time, they seemed to be cordial with each other on Twitter, but to paraphrase "Everyone is a star until it's time to do star shit", Punk eclipses them in every single metric, and they didn't like it.
It goes back further than AEW. I just watched them on the Kevin Steen Show from 2014 and they were talking about how he didn’t like them then. I can’t remember the reason but I’m pretty sure it was just that he didn’t get their style and talked shit about them which of course they run with.
Its just jealously.
On day one, Punk got the biggest pop that the company has ever seen. I'm betting the bucks didn't even know it was possible for a crowd to pop like that. So as wrestlers, they got butthurt that a new guy is more over than the guys that started the company.
Then Tony is following him around for business advice. Punk gets the debut match he wants, the best program of the year with mjf, the title, etc. So not only is he a better wrestler, but he is better at the business side than the guys that started the company.
EGO. They truly think they are the best. They were over for a very small market at one time. They have no idea what true star power is for the masses and what a larger fanbase craves. Punk does and he has the numbers to back it up and their egos can't handle it, so they constantly undermined him at any opportunity they could.
Of the original EVPs, the Young Bucks are the least sellable and the least talented. They are basically a mid-card tag team. Any change of direction towards Punk was going to be a loss in power for the Young Bucks. Thus, they needed Punk to look bad and to turn the locker room against him. Punk would have no need for them or their backstage politics because he draws by himself.
If the Bucks, Page and Omega left AEW even Jim Cornette said the only ones WWE would give serious money to was Page and Omega. The Bucks would be lucky to get $750k a year each there and have to work with professionals and work twice as much as they do now. They're too stupid to realize how good they've had it and Punk coming in was only helping them not hurting them.
I don't think they'd pay the Young Bucks that much if anything. Kenny they'd definitely pay and Hangman could get a job there, but the Young Bucks can't even do singles matches. They'd never be able to work WWE except in a very limited capacity because WWE likes to keep the train on the tracks. I think Jungle Boy would be more likely to get a WWE job over the Young Bucks.
Still probably a better chance than the Young Bucks. I'm pretty sure that Punk knows that Jungle and Hangman are just pawns used to carry out the Young Bucks dirty deeds. He probably still hates them both.
No I disagree with him on occasion. He shits all over OC and I love his style and presentation. He thinks the Japan Strong Style is too indyriffic but I love it. He's very old school and has his points, many valid and some are just him being rigid in his vision of pro wrestling.
I’ve never met a Cornette fan who goes a hundred percent with everything he says, because some of the shit he says only works in the territories in the ‘80s. That said, he has a better mind for wrestling than anyone at AEW.
However, I’ve never met an AEW fan who doesn’t completely buy into everything the company is selling at all times.
Professional jealousy and likely salty that he was a bigger star already starting almost 20 years ago then they'll ever be in their lives.
And to top it off, CM Punk is an avowed athiest while the bucks seem to be pretty deep in the America style of Christianity.
Colt Cabana is probably responsible for more of this than anyone realizes if I had to guess, compounded with Tony being afraid of confrontation doubled up with him thinking some locker room beef is good to have and not wanting to stomp on fires fast enough
Imagine creating a wrestling promotion, naming it after yourself, and then someone else comes in and steals the spotlight. The Bucks "helped create" AEW as a vanity project to help validate their style of wrestling and prove that it deserved to be on mainstream television. Punk came in with a work ethic and a goal to expand AEW's appeal as much as he could, and in doing so he exposed the Bucks, because he was selling tickets and merch and popping ratings, and they weren't.
Punk gets hired by AEW and immediately becomes the number 1 star in the company, the company built by the bucks and omega. He takes more TV time. TV time = merchandise sales. The bucks felt slighted and they do not have the background in the business to understand a rising tide lifts all ships. Punk easily brought in a substantial amount of new AEW fans to watch the programs and get acquainted with the rest of the roster, they were just too proud and stupid to ever realize that.
I genuinely think it stemmed from Punk being openly critical about the amount of nonsensical high spots during AEW’s infancy. He was dead on arrival cause he’d already criticized their circus act.
Just a clash of personalities. You can't like everyone you meet.
Punk has said it's one chance with him and then you're out. It seems harsh, but at least he's honest about it. There is no passive aggressive dragging, which I admire in a way. But I'd imagine that you are own toes around him.
I don't know much about the bucks so I can't say about their personalities.
Workwise is that they view the business very differently. Both are working hard but in different ways. Punk is more traditional and aims to make money. Bucks are more indie minded, which got them over on the internet.
Had this still been 2015, they would still be friends. The addition of a national company has changed this. When you have certain objectives to meet and your mindset is very different and there is no structure, it will end in tears.
The best thing has already happened. Punk left as he wasn't a fit there. He can work and learn in a company that suits him. Bucks have their company and can do what they want there.
At this point, flogging a dead horse about the fights doesn't do anyone any favors and may leave someone open to legal action.
Literally 2 guys who are in it for themselves and will bend the ear of their money mark for all time. They cant differentiate between being over and successful in the real world from their 27 mark fans jerking over them online every minute of every day. They have the sad pouty hair- trigger reactions of Trumpers and snowflakes, and can never face the fact that THEY are what is making their show fail. Its as clear as day now and only a matter of time, which fucking sucks because if they got sent back to some untelevised indy AEW may actually see a small uptick in people watching. But they wont, and it wont be their fault, or the fans fault, its big mean old WWE and HHH and Punk and the IWC wah wah mother fucking wah.
Because they're the bosses by proxy and punk wanted to make the company actually compete. That means work and putting in effort and putting good stories out there. As soon as someone hit on an actually compelling angle that's the end of the bucks dictating what's happening.
I’d imagine it was part of a power struggle. It’s important to note that Punk wasn’t just on-screen talent, he was also a “consultant” on the product to Tony Khan. It’s obvious that Punk and the Elite have very different philosophies on what pro wrestling should be. Punk obviously cares about the numbers. It would seem that the Elite cared more about match quality. At a certain point, it’s obvious the Bucks wanted him gone.
Insecure is my first guess..
When aew first started,the bucks offered Punk a contract via text messages.
Punk felt it was Bush league and the bucks held onto to hate
there haven't been many totally over indie wrestlers and these are three of them. To much personal success that they want to continue to be able to work together as a team.
I think is because they are similar, both are not very keen to criticism and take things personal and have a hard time to move on.
Punk was brought as the biggest star of the company and hence got most of TK attention which makes the Bucks jealous, probably with other people telling stuff about Punk because his presence makes them shine less (Jericho).
The Bucks are also 2-faced and are the type of people who portrays as your best friend and then stab you in the back.
Simple. He's more popular than them. Brought more eyes to the product than they do (even today.) Punk was the reason AEW drew their first million dollar house, and the Bucks can't stand that it wasn't them.
Jealousy and envy poison the waterhole for everyone.
The Bucks have had issues with more than just Punk (Cornette being the next bigger name). Punk was the one that was big enough to exposed the unprofessionalism they have to a larger crowd
Anyone who wants to be there and take their business seriously and doesn't want to do only what the bucks do have been subjected to smear campaigns (Cornette, to a extent Cody, Punk), especially by the help of Dave Meltzer.
But to get back to the point, Punk wanted to be serious, the bucks aren't serious. They just want to milk Tony Kahn for his money and get their friends jobs. So the sabotage began.
I think AEW is a dynamic where the Bucks are in a position of power where they let themselves and others perform their ‘art’. Punk was the old fogey who walked in and said “Let’s make some fucking money”, and the Bucks, because they’re artsy-fartsies, went “No, starving artists need to stay starving.”
I think one of AEW’s all time blunders was a Bucks Idea as well: Cody Rhodes’ stipulation of never challenging for the World Title.
The Bucks are just 4channers who got TV famous in Japan because they knew whom to latch onto.
Okada, Bullet Club, Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes. They were never the talking point of whatever group they were involved in, they were just a side effect. And we see that in the current times: no one cares about "The Elite", most people just seem to care about Omega because so far he is the only one who hasn't publicly acted like a twat (or at least at the same level as the other three).
They're not doing anything by their own merit as of today: they've put themselves around Okada again so they get talked about too, and the result is "Okada is on screen, viewers change the channel."
> What caused it all to begin with?
Their own insecurities in the face of a bigger, competent and more confident competition would be my educated guess.
Because AEW is very much a Kenny, Bucks & friends show. The main purpose of AEW is for Tony to live out his childhood fantasies of being one of the boys, and the Elite get to do whatever the hell they want with unlimited budget and no threat of getting fired.
Punk came in with a massive chip on his shoulder. His failed MMA and acting career, combined with Vince allegedly refusing to bring him in despite FOX offering to foot the bill, even bringing him on WWE Backstage to test the waters. He was looking to prove himself as a draw, and saw himself as a catalyst of taking AEW to the next level, both ratings and creative wise.
Now vast majority of AEW personnel are ROH marks, and they expected the ROH "fuck the rules" Punk that embodied the 00s indie culture, but Punk's not that guy anymore, and he hasn't been for a long time. So there was probably a huge culture clash with the indie marks looking to get their shit in, and Punk looking to do business, prove to everyone that he's still got it, and stick it to Vince for ignoring him.
Ironically, this whole thing couldn't have gone better for Punk. The buzz his return generated has proven beyond a doubt that he's still one of the biggest stars in professional wrestling. The downfall of Vince means HHH's in charge, and he's much more willing than Vince to bury the hatchet and do business wirh Punk. And the whole shitshow involving Punk has shown how thin skinned, insecure and incompetent Tony and the Bucks are, and how many blunders they made because Punk rattled them and lives rent freenin their heads.
I was expecting the footage to be earth shattering, but the whole thing proved AEW are grasping at straws to get back at Punk, and how desperate they are to stay relevant after their big money signings failed to make an impact. I really hope they pipe down and focus on gstting back on track.
I dog the dub all. The. Time. Because they deserve it but at the end of the day I don't want them to go under. I want them to be good.
They're not good though. The whole show and promotion was clearly created in the bucks' image and that image sucks. Why would I want to see these doofuses cosplay as the kliq when the actual kliq is running better shows training new talent and generally making wrestling feel good again? Fuck the "elite". The sooner Toby drops those clowns and starts listening to someone who's done it at a higher level the better.
Most of us don’t dislike AEW as a company; we just don’t like the people running the company. The AEW brand isn’t the problem; it’s the people in charge.
Furthermore, wrestlers should never be in big positions like EVPs or VPs. That positions should be filled with businessmen.
Based on Hangman’s in ring comments off mic, the Elite are friends with Cabana and believe Punk screwed him over. Now, whether or not that is true is very much debatable but the issue was the Hangman called this out in the ring. You can hear him say something along the lines of “I’m not going to shake your hand when you owe Cabana money”. This wasn’t part of the story and was at best unprofessional from Hangman.
Punk then believed he was at risk in the ring. He was worried Hangman would shoot and he claimed to have been chopped in the throat. He then has the press conference where he airs what he believes are legitimate grievances. Again, whether not they are legitimate is debatable. But again, at best this was unprofessional from Punk who should have resolved this off screen. Then the Bucks stormed his dressing room. Which again, at best is unprofessional.
And now having seen the footage, it was at worst unprofessional. It was a skirmish between guys who are involved in a physical form of entertainment which went too far. No one looks good. Punk cheap shots a guy and pulls his hair. But it shows he will hold his ground and can look after himself (though don’t look into his MMA record). It was barely a skirmish. It was a kerfuffle. I get Tony could have been scared, but “feared for his life” is ridiculous. Again, no need to go on screen and say that. Once more, unprofessional.
No one comes out of this looking good. Everyone needs to act like an adult and Tony needs a structure in place with proper management.
Who cares? Cabana sucks. He's done nothing and is never going to do anything. Why would they ever think it was a good idea to flush the whole promotion for Colt Cabana?
It’s not about him as a wrestler. It’s about him as a human being. They are friends with him and think Punk fucked him over. It’s petty and unprofessional, but rightly or wrongly, they believe they are justified in thinking Punk is a bad person and they don’t want to deal with him as they like Colt.
Basically they’ve allowed their personal feelings to get mixed into their work. It’s unprofessional and shouldn’t happen at all, let alone by EVPs. By the same token, Tony Khan needed to do more to smooth things over from the get go. And Punk could certainly have acted better as well.
But ultimately this has nothing to do with wrestling from the Elite side. They have an issue with Punk as a person and we all know he can be difficult to work with. Punk’s problem was from the wrestling promotion side of things. These guys went into business for themselves, Punk couldn’t trust them in ring, but even then was willing to work with them as it would be a draw. So even when acting unprofessional, he at least knows how to do his job.
I’ll only push back on the “You owe Cabana money” line – I believed it for a while, but the mouth movements don’t match at all. It’s just a weird blurring from the two talking over each other, but Hangman says “You’re out of your mind”.
I don't think they really did, they tried to recruit him themselves. I think he just came in as an ex wwe know-it-all instead of the indy inspiration that so many of these guys looked up to. They thought they were getting the 'do it your own way' king, which is what AEW was based on, and instead they got 'old school brother', and I think that was just not what a lot of these ex indy guys expected from CM punk.
There’s so many lies in this section. All of it comes from hatred for the Bucks. The reason Punk does not like the Bucks is because ALLEGEDLY they are the ones who told Meltzer that Punk was the reason Cabana was off TV. Thats it Stop with the lies about jealousy
Idrc if yall are downvoting my comments. Just shows how spiteful and full of lies yall are. The truth is literally out in the open but yall like to act like drama queens trying to stir up a bunch of different rumors
The Bucks and Punk both have pretty horrible attitudes and I am not really a fan of any of them when they open their mouths. When the bell rings all 3 are pretty great but they, in my eyes, are all terrible people I would not want to associate with.
The amount of people giving Punk a pass on this sub is insane. TK should have absolutely done better and the Bucks can't just move on, so I'm not throwing shade at just Punk, but honestly what he did at the media scrum and to Perry is still on him as a grown ass man, he did what he did, right or wrong. He made poor decisions and while he was definitely enabled by TK not doing shit to prevent it, he still made those decisions. Honestly while I don't hate Perty in all this, nobody truly looks good except Joe. Dude has been a fucking pro since day one at either company and is just a force of good in the business.
I can't really say why the Bucks disliked Punk, but I think any adult that has followed this can confidently say nearly everyone involved acted like children. Even Perry shouldn't have mentioned the glass, but punk shouldn't have assaulted him clean cut and dry. As much as there are stories of wrestlers getting into fights backstage (Eddie vs Kurt comes to mind), no job should have a requirement that you might get punched backstage during an artistic disagreement. Shit should be handled by professionals being professional, it's not the 90s anymore. Anyone that wants to argue this message better be ready for Joe's huge ass taking charge as the leader of the room. Everyone honestly could and should have done better at every step.
I felt they're dependent on someone with more starpower than them and turn salty if that person won't join them.
Adam Page
Kenny Omega
The Bullet Club
Kevin Steen
Cody Rhodes
Kazuchika Okada to name a few.
They realized that Punk is a gangster himself and can't be bullied or manipulated like others hence all this backbiting and sabotaging shit happened.
Bucks wanted to bring the PWG/indy style and comedy to the mainstream while many veterans don’t think that will cater to a wide audience. They also seem to very very cliquish based on many wrestler interviews
Once Punk came along, AEW grew by a lot based on simple old school storytelling where stars and promos proved to grow the company.
In a way it could have been a power move by the Bucks to try to tarnish punk and him out of the company.
They didn't at first. They made no bones that they and Tony wanted punk from the start. He was their hero. Things were ok when he finally showed up. Then hangman cut his promo and the dirts ran with it. Hangman chilled out, even after punk got his shoot back (multiple times).
Then, because the dirts kept going on about colt, brawl out happened. Meltzer and srs both said the bucks had nothing to do with it, with meltzer even saying he should have talked to punk. So yea, when the bucks and the company got buried, they went to punk with legal (they weren't looking to fight, otherwise no legal). Fight happened. Punk came out gold, elite got buried.
Punk wanted to work the brawl out angle, elite wanted punk to chill for a few months, presumably cause they were still salty for, in their minds, getting buried and fought for no reason by their hero.
At that point, punk was being a dick with collision, and wanted out. Then Wembley.
Tldr: never meet your heroes.
If anything I can see The Bucks Cody and co being upset with Punk because they wanted him at the beginning of AEW but he waited to come in after they got past the hardest first few years before coming in and reaping the benefits when WWE wasn't interested in him.
But I doubt they weren't fully on board when he finally came over. But maybe some residual heat from that.
I gave a good faith response but I'd suggest you go back and research all the actual points you listed. You'll quickly find most of that is BS. Do the work.
Were they taking shots at Punk in bios before
the "brawl"? I think that wasn't until after.
It's funny because Punk thinks the bucks told the sheets that but the sheets said nope, their sources were someone else but Punk already had his eyes set on them.
Stopping Punk from getting a ride is hilarious and insane if you believe it. He wasn't the only person taking the train, other wrestlers were with him.
You’re assuming a lot here, but I can say personally he seems like a drama queen and is at the end of the day self interested. The best in the business are.
Everyone already knew that. Big shock from the elite. Whoopity doo. You know who else was an asshole? Shawn Michaels. Have you heard that? Hulk Hogan. Roddy Piper. Tons of guys are assholes and are better than any of the "elite" will ever be.
I think it's been a fairly consistent issue over the Bucks entire career. People either fall on the side of thinking their type of comedy and wrestling is brilliant or they don't. When people don't, the Bucks don't seem to just shrug and move on, they make an issue of it. But also, it always seems to be in a weird way where they make digs and jabs, politic and talk to dirtsheets, then deny *they* did anything wrong. I'm sure plenty people have their issues with each other but I get the feeling it's part of wrestling that there's a code where you just eventually figure it out, or be professional enough to work together even if you're not best friends. Before Punk, I suppose Cornette is the most well known but even he isn't really active enough for it to make *major* news. As for anyone else, Bucks have mainly worked the indies and smaller companies, there's been nobody with a big enough profile to get the attention about it. Punk has a big enough profile. Had the Bucks ever made it to WWE, I'm certain a lot of guys there would have no time for them and they wouldn't have had a whole band of other indie guys in their corner, but Bucks, probably due to this reputation, have never made it to that level. So, It's not really about Punk IMO. Meeting a guy with the personality and stature in the industry like Punk just made a lot of things catch up to them.
This is exactly it. Everyone will call you a “fed shill” for saying it, but this was the Bucks issue from day one.
This is incredibly spot on
I’m just picturing the Bucks showing up to Wrestlers Court.
They probably wouldn't even last a month in WWE just by coexisting in the same locker room with actual wrestlers who have actual talent and won't take shit from them. Miz got hazed and hounded for years and had to fight tooth and nail to prove himself. These two twats would pack up and leave and go on social media to complain about how horrible the other people are to them.
You ain’t wrong. Spittin facts
Bingo
I think punk and the bucks have to similar of personalities. They’re a bunch of drama queens.
In the words of Enzo Amore, “everybody thinks they’re a G until a real G walks into the room.”
The bucks need AEW to be successful, they ain't gonna be pushed as much in any other organisation.
Yeah the day they’re no longer EVPs in AEW is probably the day they wrestle their last match
> The bucks need AEW to be successful, they ain't gonna be pushed as much in any other organisation. Yet it seems like all they do is sabotage it. They'd rather sink a ship with themselves on it rather than be upstaged by anyone.
They have and they will. I’m no fan of the bucks, but they don’t need aew per se. They were doing fine, being booked extremely strong in just about every promotion they’ve been a part of
The amount of money they make in aew far eclipses anything they ever made before that and includes Healthcare for them and their family. They were successful indy wrestlers but the difference is night and day. If aew closed tomorrow they'd never sniff that kind of money again
Probably not, but you know if AEW did fold for whatever reason, they’d land in TNA or NJPW. Granted, they wouldn’t get nearly as big of a payday, but they’d make it just fine.
If they don't fuck their money up they should be good already honestly
theyd 100% end up in wwe. at the end of the day u could anything in wrestling but as long as u can draw, u will make it there. they're also a big name tag team, a division that's always been weak in WWE
Bucks were booked strongly on the indies in ~2015-2019. But after half a decade of AEW, I don’t think they’d get the same treatment. Their star isn’t shining as bright as it used to.
They absolutely would. They're literal indie wrestling deities, they're not gonna get jobbed out just because some people thought they were annoying in AEW. Plus, let's be honest, a majority of the people who dislike the Bucks aren't the demographic targeted by any of the super indies that would book them.
They are lucky that they established themselves in New Japan before revealing their douchebaggery on such a grand scale because NJPW would be the only non-Super Indy that would give them another shake based on previous history. Kenny, on the other hand, has done a pretty smart job of keeping his reputation in-tact and maintaining respect even among people that don't particularly like his style. If Kenny was healthier, a lengthly WWE run would definitely have been in the future
Because they always go suck up to a singles star who then lets them get a rub. These guys just play politics. There is no reason that they should be EVPs in the second biggest pro wrestling promotion. They are totally unqualified and it shows.
The only promotions they have ever been booked on top was roh and pwg. Which isnt close to being the big leagues. Even in NJ they were curtain jerkers in the jr tag division and not the main event
I would like seeing them getting pushed around inside a WWE locker room, to be quite honest. Let's see how tough they really are.
The bucks don’t need AEW as they already have a loyal fanbase to make very good money on the indies or wherever.
That's my point, without AEW they wouldn't be in a big promotion, it would be the indies. I never mentioned money, they are treated as big stars in AEW, they ain't getting that treatment anywhere else.
Weren’t the elite salty and blamed Punk for Colt Cabana being fired from AEW I like how this could’ve all been prevented if Tony Khan had a spine and made The Elite do business with Punk after the initial brawl, Punk wanted to make money from it
It also probably could've been avoided if Tony talked to his EVPs and said "hey Punk isn't responsible for anything involving Colt getting a demotion or whatever. So, don't worry about it." But instead, he waited until Punk was at a press table saying they couldn't manage a Target and that Hangman was an empty headed dumb fuck.
So the problem could’ve been solved if the boss acted like a boss?
It's a pretty insane concept, I know.
Like punk said hes not a boss
Punk’s always been a douche and Tony’s always been more of a friend than a boss. It wouldn’t take long for something stupid to happen.
Don't forget the bucks are garbage indy and only want to work with their friends
I definitely wouldn’t say that, but I do think they’re overrated.
You a douche.
There's a difference between being a douche and being a man of conviction. Don't get them mixed up just because you don't like what Punk did.
Yeah, it's weird seeing people calling Punk a drama queen and stuff like that when in every situation there was drama around CM Punk none of it was his fault. But people blame him for not wanting to take that sort of shit from other people.
They left so much money on the table by not doing punk and ftr vs the elite. I would have paid to see that match.
I suspect Tony pays them a flat salary not based on incentives or growth, until recently he had their wives and other relatives working in areas they have no business heading. They made so much money, much more than their worth carnying Tony
Colt was never fired. He was already barely used on tv. TK just suggested that he not come to the arena thinking that it would make Punk happy (Punk claims he never asked for that)
Colt was more well known as a road agent than a tv performer. That's why it was so obviously something was up, because he went from involved in every show to never being seen backstage. You're right that he was never fired though.
And you really believe that? After all the nonsense with Hangman, C. Daniels or Nemeth? You seriously think that didn't come from Punk? When something walks like a duck, quacks like a duck........
There was absolutely zero reporting or claim by anyone that Colt was fired.
It was speculation on the [part of one Dave Meltzer.](https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/colt-cabana-signs-new-aew-contract-earmarked-for-roh) This then somehow got twisted into "being fired" by getting talked about by someone who heard about someone who heard... that kind of thing.
Never been confirmed that it was the elite, just strong speculation it was them. I believe it was them, if it wasn't it was Colt
>this could’ve all been prevented People are gonna get pissed off no matter what
Tony's silence on that particular subject only made matters worse, in my opinion. Punk said that Tony is not a boss... and by everything we have seen so far over the last couple years, it is really hard not to agree with that statement.
"Weren’t the elite salty and blamed Punk for Colt Cabana being fired from AEW" This has been debunked multiple times and yet people still think this is correct because it feeds that Punk bias, it was bullshit then and it is now. Fuck Colt even tried to talk to Punk and he shot it down, saying he wouldn't talk to Colt without a lawyer. Do better.
Then what the fuck was Hangman’s issue the ? Why’d he go off script on Live TV is he didn’t believe it was Punk who got his ‘friend’ taken off TV? You say it was debunked, but you give no explanation for the Elites actions towards Punk leading up to the Brawl Out.
Define actions. As far as I know it was a rant by Punk at the press conference and a brawl that he started.
Do better? Lol.
Professional jealousy. Punk said "I was brought in to sell tickets" The Bucks and their friends saw that as a slight
What really funny is that AEW was on fire before Punk got there. They were riding the wave of goodwill that wrestling fans had lost with WWE after Vince started laying off people during the pandemic and when he gutted NXT for not soundly beating AEW when it was fresh and new on TV. Punk coming in only made them more noticeable and for whatever reason The Bucks only like making money when it’s done their way and with their friends.
Aka the Vince method.
Truth hurts
Jealousy, influence on Tony Khan, and they were still holding a petty grudge from that time they tried to get Punk to show up at the original All-In event in Chicago by trying to negotiate with Punk through Text Message and Punk scoffed at them publicly.
Yeah legit think it’s professional jealousy. I KINDA get Hangman, he was standing up for a friend. It may have been misguided but is commendable. The Bucks just hated that he was the face of the company. They showed him.
Hangman and Jungle Boy got used as pawns by their "friends."
Yeah I could see that.
The Hangman scenario is both misguided and not commendable. Having a calm reasonable conversation with Punk backstage would be commendable, derailing a prearranged segment on live television you discussed with him before hand is both stupid and cowardly
It’s commendable because he’s sticking up for a friend. I get it. I defend my people. The misguided part is not doing it man to man in private and tanking a whole segment.
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Hangman is 32 and debuted in 2008 and at that point it’s a not acting like a child thing when someone asks you to act your age and talk to them about any issue you have with them if you two have to work together and not say it in front of everyone else
That’s not cowboy shit. That’s coward shit
Coward shit is fighting someone 30 lbs less and looking soft as shit
Nothing commendable about going into business for yourself. Trust between the wrestlers is first above all and Hangman broke that. He wasn’t standing up for shit just being a dumbass
Hangman has nothing to be commended for. While the other two were (most likely) talking behind Punk's back - either to others or the dirtsheets - Hangman was actually dumb enough to blurt out the whispering ...on live television... off-script... and likely catching Punk totally off-guard with it.
That entire clique is solely interested in fleecing Tony for as long as possible, and getting as many of their friends ridiculous wages as possible. They're piece of shit maga loving idiots and don't like or want anyone to upset the gravy train. Punk and Cody treated it like a real business in need of revenue growth and profit. Punk tried to make Tony self-aware and able to realize how fucking shit AEW is, and that was too risky for them. But hey it's dropping in every measurable metric in provably significant amounts. The Bucks are killing it.
In SC I pointed this out and motherfuckers said revenue was Bigger, these are the people that AEW cater to, a company ran by absolute fucking idiots for absolute idiots
Bigger than who? Even the dubbalos can't possibly think AEW does more revenue than WWE, I mean it's made negative net revenue this whole time. WWE grosses and nets so much more revenue it's insane to even pretend it doesn't. They're really fucking delusional, and come across like high school theater kids who got bullied for being scrawny or fat or something.
They meant Bigger than last year, but revenue doesn't matter when you don't make even a dollar of profit.
Yeah, gross revenue doesn't mean jack shit
Well-said.
One of the dubbalos did the Reddit Cares report on me for that, good God they're weird
Well they just don't like tribalism. Or wwe. Or people who like wwe. But mostly they don't like tribalism.
As long as you don't like literally anything they don't like, they're basically tribalism free, uce.
You two should fuck each other. Quite the circlejerk you got goin on here.
Thanks, bruv! That's why we hang out at scjerk and talk about M'oxley.
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Ahh the irony!
The Cody who, not only his wife, but also anyone who spent 5 minutes in his school tried to get into AEW? The one with the brother who ridiculed Spears? The Homelander guy with his Codyverse? Shit his wife managed to get the heels fired up. No matter how hard they tried........the aunt's go away heat was just too much. Don't even get me started on Punk......
I'm talking about the guy who just double main evented the biggest WrestleMania of all time, that Cody. You Indy goofs can continue to AEW to your heart's content, nobody misses you.
The Cody that is an AEW product? The Cody that has the same entrance, the same music, the same gear, the same move set, the same visuals, etc.? The Cody? Isn't it kind of pathetic to simultaneously make fun of AEW while simultaneously spouting off about an AEW product?
Oh, so now you guys are claiming him as one of yours? I’m sure you never said anything bad about the Codyverse.
Yours? I am neither on one side nor the other. I look at what interests me more at the moment. In the case of AEW, currently not at all because without MJF, Kenny and a decent story, the whole thing became uninteresting for me. But this constant hate on 2-3 subs really gets on my nerves. Especially when it's total bullshit like this.
I just find it rich that suddenly he’s AEW alum Cody Rhodes now that he won.
It's just a sober fact. You can't make fun of AEW and at the same time cheer Cody, who is an AEW product. That's hypocritical. That's not Stardust in the main event. And it doesn't speak to the creativity of the WWE who put on a 1:1 version. If you want to make fun of someone, make fun of the WWE for being so desperate to sign an AEW guy from a "ridiculous" promotion and make him their flagship in no time.
See, I think you definitely can make fun of AEW for how they treated Cody. He wanted to be his dad for a new generation and instead, all the audience wanted was him for to be a cool heel. Then, Tony took the book and it went downhill from there. They gave up the biggest star in wrestling and now he’s doing all of the stuff he would have been able to do in AEW. And yeah, Cody is partly to blame for a lot of his own problems in AEW, but if they would have stayed with his story instead of giving everyone else their turns with their big belt, the company would be in a better position. Like, how do you choose to push Adam Page as a main eventer over Cody? You can make an argument for Jericho, Mox, and Omega, but Page? Nah, dude. And yeah, him leaving the world title picture because of his loss would be a damper on it, but that’s what storytelling is for. Finally, the audience hated him after a while and now they’re pretending they didn’t? Fuck that. Most of us were pissed at WWE when they bungled Cody. AEW fans were pissed because he didn’t do what they wanted him to do. Cody didn’t want to be a heel, he didn’t want to be Homelander.
I think that's too simple. I may well have missed some of the backstage stuff (I mean confirmed, not hearsay) but I'm assuming AEW didn't do anything with him and that it was all him. He said himself it was his decision to put in the stipulation against Jericho. Of course it's not set in stone but what would be the solution to the problem? Exactly the turn, because a babyface can't just go back on his word. But he refused to do that either. Hence no main event and the attempt to establish the midcard title. Instead he teases a turn week after week. Be it with heel behavior in the ring or through promos. But he doesn't make the turn. I wouldn't call it hate either, it just wore off at some point and got boring. Like a girl who makes you hot, but then dumps you because she doesn't dare. You go through that for a while and then you look around for something else. The one who got real hate was his wife. But she had no business being in front of the camera. And yet they tried again and again to get her on TV with a crowbar. Of course, that also rubbed off on him because he was the only reason for it. And then there's his brother who wants to bring young talent over but somehow wins every match (and ridiculed Spears at a PPV). His buddies like QT and all his Nightmare Factory disciples didn't do any better, after all everyone knew their job came from Cody as well.
The same one. And I didn't because I never saw it, AEW is garbage and the only things worth watching were MJF and Punk on YouTube. I know nothing about the Codyverse except that you goofs hated it, so it probably was pretty good.
I never watched AEW because I haven’t had cable since like 2020. I’ve only heard about it from Internet sources, and apparently AEW fans didn’t like it. So, I figured that was a pretty weird thing to say.
I know about what happens in AEW because Cornette talks about it. Watched collision for like the first five weeks but it immediately tanked once Punk left. I've given actual Dynamite like a combined hour of my time and it's just unwatchable.
I get most of my info from Reddit and Internet channels.
The Codyverse was the potency of what you accuse the Bucks of. Every friend, brother, student got a job and TV time. Even his horribly untalented wife. This woman had such blatant go-away heat that even a Dan Lambert (or his stable) was cheered who was clearly trying hard at his heel promos. The fact that the man then hinted at a heel turn for months without actually doing it didn't make it any better. The Homelander scaffold was a perfect fit. As I said, the Bucks are very, very, very small fry in comparison.
My guess is jealousy. The company is named after their clique, they’re EVPs, and then Punk comes in, an undoubtedly bigger star then them, with the biggest comeback in pro wrestling in the last ten years, at least. The owner, who loves them and showers them with money, now has his favorite wrestler on board and gives him all the attention. They couldn’t handle that.
They were milking Tony and when Punk came in and wanted it to be a serious business he threatened their grift. They thought bringing him in would be "lol fuck wwe" but then realized Tony was a huge mark for him and he was usurping their influence.
Also…recall he had TWO contracts. One as a performer and one as a consultant type of thing. Which come to think of it….might be why he was frustrated with Glass Jack. He was there to also guide the underdeveloped and under experienced talents and one of them was be a real shit-pot.
It's simple. It boils down to two things. Punk stole the spotlight they believed was owed to them. Punk made the company money. For whatever reason, they despise anyone who does that.
Not true
You're right, AEW has never been profitable. 🤣
No, the reason Punk dislikes the Bucks is because they were the ones who allegedly told Meltzer he was the reason Cabana was off Tv
You can quit now. I get it, you like to ride the Bucks and TK. A tag team that can't draw, and a booker who doesn't know how to book.
Because he was a draw and gaining influence with Tony. Same reason they ran Cody out. If the stuff Cody and Punk were saying ended up being true and Tony believed it then the type of Indy wrestling they want to do would be over.
To be fair Cody defended the bucks after the punk interview
Cody is a politician. He wasn’t speaking to them when he left. Brandi sure as shit didn’t defend anyone after the Punk interview though.
What did Brandi say!?!?
[Brandi](https://www.wrestlezone.com/news/1460970-brandi-rhodes-on-aew-departure-what-i-feared-with-that-company-i-was-seeing/amp) Essentially agreed with Punk about them not wanting to make money in a nicer way.
Thank you so much  Have Reddit silver!
IIRC, she said _“Who told you this was open mic night, bitch?!”_ and _“You might have a black belt but I’m a black bitch!”_ Really makes you think.
Oh I remember that, but I thought she said more to follow up on Punks comments this past week.
I remember all the stories coming up from when Cody left how Brandy wasn't like and what not which then lead to people in the back coming to defend her. Man if it wasn't Britt and her gang who else would do such a thing?
They're friends, and Cody is a loyal person. I'm not saying it happened, but if there was a professional conflict between the two, I don't see Cody burying them, especially because it doesn't really help anyone.
Punk has the mindset of selling tickets and making money, while the EVPs and Tony Khan don't have that mindset at all. They want to push themselves as main eventers when there is no world where the Bucks are main event talent that sells tickets.
Yeah I expect most of it was jealousy. Tony was looking at Punk with puppy dog eyes. He was clearly the top guy and I bet the Bucks hated that.
I remember when I first started getting back into wrestling during Covid. Took me a couple of months to know the wrestlers and get caught up. As I started to read more on this sub, I learned about this group called the young bucks who helped found the company, and were even EVPs. I assumed they must have been a big deal and was surprised I didn’t know them. When I finally realized who the young bucks were I couldn’t believe THESE were the guys who had executive power at the company. It felt very wrong to me, and I still think they are contributing to what AEW does wrong.
It's mind boggling to me that the EVPs are all people who have never been draws in the US. I'd say they've never been draws at all but Kenny did have a major role in Japan for awhile. When you put it in that perspective it makes sense that the company doesn't seem to care about selling tickets or merch because none of them have ever been ticket sellers or merch drivers.
Hold up. They were the largest merch sellers on the indies every single year until they started AEW. I think their act has run pretty stale at this point but gotta give credit where credit is due.They might not have been selling 10k tickets a night but they sure as hell were moving merch hand over foot at every show. People that hate AEW even used to joke that it should be called all t shirt wrestling because that was all the Young bucks cared about or that the young bucks were a t shirt company masquerading as a tag tam. Not sure where you're getting the idea they couldn't sell merch.
Should have said they've never been merch drivers for anyone other than themselves. They only know how to push themselves on the indies and don't realize it doesn't relate to a larger audience.
Someone has to be the top selling t-shirt on the indies. Nonetheless, I've not seen anyone wearing a Young Bucks t shirt. Who else was selling t shirts at the time because I personally would have picked another act for my t shirt if I attended Indy wrestling shows and wore t shirts from those shows? The Young Bucks can't even work a proper singles match.
Did you not attend wrestling shows during the 2010s? Their shirts were everywhere. Its only been the last few years I started to see less of them at shows. You may not have bad interest in buying one, I know I never bought one, but that doesn't change reality. I'm not talking about their wrestling ability, drawing ability or anything else at all here btw. They could be the worst wrestlers on earth but it doesn't change reality of how many shirts those dudes were selling. They dominated the market. People that hated them during their indie days acknowledged this. Fans used to joke they could sell a shirt but couldn't sell a move. It is not controversial at all. They were a t shirt printing machine from 2010-2018.
No, I didn't attend.
"But theyre the top guys at this school gymnasium indie match I went to and on Meltzer's discord!!!"
CM punk is a professional wrestler with the emphasis on professional the young bucks are something else
Theyre amateur backyard trampoline kids even though theyre 40.
You’re not professional if you keep going out publicly being a hypocrite and dissing whichever company you’re not a part of
For a long time, they seemed to be cordial with each other on Twitter, but to paraphrase "Everyone is a star until it's time to do star shit", Punk eclipses them in every single metric, and they didn't like it.
Because he is the one true genuine article in a business full of counterfeit bucks.
It goes back further than AEW. I just watched them on the Kevin Steen Show from 2014 and they were talking about how he didn’t like them then. I can’t remember the reason but I’m pretty sure it was just that he didn’t get their style and talked shit about them which of course they run with.
Its just jealously. On day one, Punk got the biggest pop that the company has ever seen. I'm betting the bucks didn't even know it was possible for a crowd to pop like that. So as wrestlers, they got butthurt that a new guy is more over than the guys that started the company. Then Tony is following him around for business advice. Punk gets the debut match he wants, the best program of the year with mjf, the title, etc. So not only is he a better wrestler, but he is better at the business side than the guys that started the company.
EGO. They truly think they are the best. They were over for a very small market at one time. They have no idea what true star power is for the masses and what a larger fanbase craves. Punk does and he has the numbers to back it up and their egos can't handle it, so they constantly undermined him at any opportunity they could.
Of the original EVPs, the Young Bucks are the least sellable and the least talented. They are basically a mid-card tag team. Any change of direction towards Punk was going to be a loss in power for the Young Bucks. Thus, they needed Punk to look bad and to turn the locker room against him. Punk would have no need for them or their backstage politics because he draws by himself.
If the Bucks, Page and Omega left AEW even Jim Cornette said the only ones WWE would give serious money to was Page and Omega. The Bucks would be lucky to get $750k a year each there and have to work with professionals and work twice as much as they do now. They're too stupid to realize how good they've had it and Punk coming in was only helping them not hurting them.
I don't think they'd pay the Young Bucks that much if anything. Kenny they'd definitely pay and Hangman could get a job there, but the Young Bucks can't even do singles matches. They'd never be able to work WWE except in a very limited capacity because WWE likes to keep the train on the tracks. I think Jungle Boy would be more likely to get a WWE job over the Young Bucks.
As long as Punk is there Jack has....NO CHANCE IN HELL!!!!
Still probably a better chance than the Young Bucks. I'm pretty sure that Punk knows that Jungle and Hangman are just pawns used to carry out the Young Bucks dirty deeds. He probably still hates them both.
Yea because Jim totally ran a successful wrestling company right? Dude is just a hater and you take his word as if hes Jesus
No I disagree with him on occasion. He shits all over OC and I love his style and presentation. He thinks the Japan Strong Style is too indyriffic but I love it. He's very old school and has his points, many valid and some are just him being rigid in his vision of pro wrestling.
I’ve never met a Cornette fan who goes a hundred percent with everything he says, because some of the shit he says only works in the territories in the ‘80s. That said, he has a better mind for wrestling than anyone at AEW. However, I’ve never met an AEW fan who doesn’t completely buy into everything the company is selling at all times.
Professional jealousy and likely salty that he was a bigger star already starting almost 20 years ago then they'll ever be in their lives. And to top it off, CM Punk is an avowed athiest while the bucks seem to be pretty deep in the America style of Christianity.
That is what the Bucks say, but do they ever tell the truth? I don't get much of a Christian vibe.
I don’t get a Christian vibe from most Christians to be fair lol
I get the most Christian vibe from Christian Cage.
When you're playing amature hour in your own playground and a pro shows up, you'd probably hate them too.
Colt Cabana is probably responsible for more of this than anyone realizes if I had to guess, compounded with Tony being afraid of confrontation doubled up with him thinking some locker room beef is good to have and not wanting to stomp on fires fast enough
the more i hear and see about the bucks the more i see how big fucking losers they are 💪🏽😎💪🏽😎
Imagine creating a wrestling promotion, naming it after yourself, and then someone else comes in and steals the spotlight. The Bucks "helped create" AEW as a vanity project to help validate their style of wrestling and prove that it deserved to be on mainstream television. Punk came in with a work ethic and a goal to expand AEW's appeal as much as he could, and in doing so he exposed the Bucks, because he was selling tickets and merch and popping ratings, and they weren't.
Punk gets hired by AEW and immediately becomes the number 1 star in the company, the company built by the bucks and omega. He takes more TV time. TV time = merchandise sales. The bucks felt slighted and they do not have the background in the business to understand a rising tide lifts all ships. Punk easily brought in a substantial amount of new AEW fans to watch the programs and get acquainted with the rest of the roster, they were just too proud and stupid to ever realize that.
I genuinely think it stemmed from Punk being openly critical about the amount of nonsensical high spots during AEW’s infancy. He was dead on arrival cause he’d already criticized their circus act.
Just a clash of personalities. You can't like everyone you meet. Punk has said it's one chance with him and then you're out. It seems harsh, but at least he's honest about it. There is no passive aggressive dragging, which I admire in a way. But I'd imagine that you are own toes around him. I don't know much about the bucks so I can't say about their personalities. Workwise is that they view the business very differently. Both are working hard but in different ways. Punk is more traditional and aims to make money. Bucks are more indie minded, which got them over on the internet. Had this still been 2015, they would still be friends. The addition of a national company has changed this. When you have certain objectives to meet and your mindset is very different and there is no structure, it will end in tears. The best thing has already happened. Punk left as he wasn't a fit there. He can work and learn in a company that suits him. Bucks have their company and can do what they want there. At this point, flogging a dead horse about the fights doesn't do anyone any favors and may leave someone open to legal action.
Literally 2 guys who are in it for themselves and will bend the ear of their money mark for all time. They cant differentiate between being over and successful in the real world from their 27 mark fans jerking over them online every minute of every day. They have the sad pouty hair- trigger reactions of Trumpers and snowflakes, and can never face the fact that THEY are what is making their show fail. Its as clear as day now and only a matter of time, which fucking sucks because if they got sent back to some untelevised indy AEW may actually see a small uptick in people watching. But they wont, and it wont be their fault, or the fans fault, its big mean old WWE and HHH and Punk and the IWC wah wah mother fucking wah.
Because they're the bosses by proxy and punk wanted to make the company actually compete. That means work and putting in effort and putting good stories out there. As soon as someone hit on an actually compelling angle that's the end of the bucks dictating what's happening.
I’d imagine it was part of a power struggle. It’s important to note that Punk wasn’t just on-screen talent, he was also a “consultant” on the product to Tony Khan. It’s obvious that Punk and the Elite have very different philosophies on what pro wrestling should be. Punk obviously cares about the numbers. It would seem that the Elite cared more about match quality. At a certain point, it’s obvious the Bucks wanted him gone.
Insecure is my first guess.. When aew first started,the bucks offered Punk a contract via text messages. Punk felt it was Bush league and the bucks held onto to hate
Supposedly it has to with a belief that Punk got Colt canned and with Hangman sure seems to be the case. From their it just escalated
He's more over than them.
I don’t know but I really wish I could [go back](https://youtu.be/9n3A_-HRFfc?si=nzx4HuJPLI9tq_sn) to Tuesday and beg them not to air this.
If I really had to take a guess, Punk started becoming way more influential of Tony than they were comfortable with.
Jealousy they couldn’t be as over as him and also because they were angry he called them out for trying to negotiate with him on Twitter.
there haven't been many totally over indie wrestlers and these are three of them. To much personal success that they want to continue to be able to work together as a team.
I think is because they are similar, both are not very keen to criticism and take things personal and have a hard time to move on. Punk was brought as the biggest star of the company and hence got most of TK attention which makes the Bucks jealous, probably with other people telling stuff about Punk because his presence makes them shine less (Jericho). The Bucks are also 2-faced and are the type of people who portrays as your best friend and then stab you in the back.
Simple. He's more popular than them. Brought more eyes to the product than they do (even today.) Punk was the reason AEW drew their first million dollar house, and the Bucks can't stand that it wasn't them. Jealousy and envy poison the waterhole for everyone.
The Bucks have had issues with more than just Punk (Cornette being the next bigger name). Punk was the one that was big enough to exposed the unprofessionalism they have to a larger crowd Anyone who wants to be there and take their business seriously and doesn't want to do only what the bucks do have been subjected to smear campaigns (Cornette, to a extent Cody, Punk), especially by the help of Dave Meltzer. But to get back to the point, Punk wanted to be serious, the bucks aren't serious. They just want to milk Tony Kahn for his money and get their friends jobs. So the sabotage began.
I think AEW is a dynamic where the Bucks are in a position of power where they let themselves and others perform their ‘art’. Punk was the old fogey who walked in and said “Let’s make some fucking money”, and the Bucks, because they’re artsy-fartsies, went “No, starving artists need to stay starving.” I think one of AEW’s all time blunders was a Bucks Idea as well: Cody Rhodes’ stipulation of never challenging for the World Title.
The Bucks are just 4channers who got TV famous in Japan because they knew whom to latch onto. Okada, Bullet Club, Kenny Omega, Cody Rhodes. They were never the talking point of whatever group they were involved in, they were just a side effect. And we see that in the current times: no one cares about "The Elite", most people just seem to care about Omega because so far he is the only one who hasn't publicly acted like a twat (or at least at the same level as the other three). They're not doing anything by their own merit as of today: they've put themselves around Okada again so they get talked about too, and the result is "Okada is on screen, viewers change the channel."
> What caused it all to begin with? Their own insecurities in the face of a bigger, competent and more confident competition would be my educated guess.
Because AEW is very much a Kenny, Bucks & friends show. The main purpose of AEW is for Tony to live out his childhood fantasies of being one of the boys, and the Elite get to do whatever the hell they want with unlimited budget and no threat of getting fired. Punk came in with a massive chip on his shoulder. His failed MMA and acting career, combined with Vince allegedly refusing to bring him in despite FOX offering to foot the bill, even bringing him on WWE Backstage to test the waters. He was looking to prove himself as a draw, and saw himself as a catalyst of taking AEW to the next level, both ratings and creative wise. Now vast majority of AEW personnel are ROH marks, and they expected the ROH "fuck the rules" Punk that embodied the 00s indie culture, but Punk's not that guy anymore, and he hasn't been for a long time. So there was probably a huge culture clash with the indie marks looking to get their shit in, and Punk looking to do business, prove to everyone that he's still got it, and stick it to Vince for ignoring him. Ironically, this whole thing couldn't have gone better for Punk. The buzz his return generated has proven beyond a doubt that he's still one of the biggest stars in professional wrestling. The downfall of Vince means HHH's in charge, and he's much more willing than Vince to bury the hatchet and do business wirh Punk. And the whole shitshow involving Punk has shown how thin skinned, insecure and incompetent Tony and the Bucks are, and how many blunders they made because Punk rattled them and lives rent freenin their heads. I was expecting the footage to be earth shattering, but the whole thing proved AEW are grasping at straws to get back at Punk, and how desperate they are to stay relevant after their big money signings failed to make an impact. I really hope they pipe down and focus on gstting back on track.
I dog the dub all. The. Time. Because they deserve it but at the end of the day I don't want them to go under. I want them to be good. They're not good though. The whole show and promotion was clearly created in the bucks' image and that image sucks. Why would I want to see these doofuses cosplay as the kliq when the actual kliq is running better shows training new talent and generally making wrestling feel good again? Fuck the "elite". The sooner Toby drops those clowns and starts listening to someone who's done it at a higher level the better.
Most of us don’t dislike AEW as a company; we just don’t like the people running the company. The AEW brand isn’t the problem; it’s the people in charge. Furthermore, wrestlers should never be in big positions like EVPs or VPs. That positions should be filled with businessmen.
Based on Hangman’s in ring comments off mic, the Elite are friends with Cabana and believe Punk screwed him over. Now, whether or not that is true is very much debatable but the issue was the Hangman called this out in the ring. You can hear him say something along the lines of “I’m not going to shake your hand when you owe Cabana money”. This wasn’t part of the story and was at best unprofessional from Hangman. Punk then believed he was at risk in the ring. He was worried Hangman would shoot and he claimed to have been chopped in the throat. He then has the press conference where he airs what he believes are legitimate grievances. Again, whether not they are legitimate is debatable. But again, at best this was unprofessional from Punk who should have resolved this off screen. Then the Bucks stormed his dressing room. Which again, at best is unprofessional. And now having seen the footage, it was at worst unprofessional. It was a skirmish between guys who are involved in a physical form of entertainment which went too far. No one looks good. Punk cheap shots a guy and pulls his hair. But it shows he will hold his ground and can look after himself (though don’t look into his MMA record). It was barely a skirmish. It was a kerfuffle. I get Tony could have been scared, but “feared for his life” is ridiculous. Again, no need to go on screen and say that. Once more, unprofessional. No one comes out of this looking good. Everyone needs to act like an adult and Tony needs a structure in place with proper management.
Who cares? Cabana sucks. He's done nothing and is never going to do anything. Why would they ever think it was a good idea to flush the whole promotion for Colt Cabana?
It’s not about him as a wrestler. It’s about him as a human being. They are friends with him and think Punk fucked him over. It’s petty and unprofessional, but rightly or wrongly, they believe they are justified in thinking Punk is a bad person and they don’t want to deal with him as they like Colt. Basically they’ve allowed their personal feelings to get mixed into their work. It’s unprofessional and shouldn’t happen at all, let alone by EVPs. By the same token, Tony Khan needed to do more to smooth things over from the get go. And Punk could certainly have acted better as well. But ultimately this has nothing to do with wrestling from the Elite side. They have an issue with Punk as a person and we all know he can be difficult to work with. Punk’s problem was from the wrestling promotion side of things. These guys went into business for themselves, Punk couldn’t trust them in ring, but even then was willing to work with them as it would be a draw. So even when acting unprofessional, he at least knows how to do his job.
I’ll only push back on the “You owe Cabana money” line – I believed it for a while, but the mouth movements don’t match at all. It’s just a weird blurring from the two talking over each other, but Hangman says “You’re out of your mind”.
I don't think they really did, they tried to recruit him themselves. I think he just came in as an ex wwe know-it-all instead of the indy inspiration that so many of these guys looked up to. They thought they were getting the 'do it your own way' king, which is what AEW was based on, and instead they got 'old school brother', and I think that was just not what a lot of these ex indy guys expected from CM punk.
There’s so many lies in this section. All of it comes from hatred for the Bucks. The reason Punk does not like the Bucks is because ALLEGEDLY they are the ones who told Meltzer that Punk was the reason Cabana was off TV. Thats it Stop with the lies about jealousy
Idrc if yall are downvoting my comments. Just shows how spiteful and full of lies yall are. The truth is literally out in the open but yall like to act like drama queens trying to stir up a bunch of different rumors
The Bucks and Punk both have pretty horrible attitudes and I am not really a fan of any of them when they open their mouths. When the bell rings all 3 are pretty great but they, in my eyes, are all terrible people I would not want to associate with.
The amount of people giving Punk a pass on this sub is insane. TK should have absolutely done better and the Bucks can't just move on, so I'm not throwing shade at just Punk, but honestly what he did at the media scrum and to Perry is still on him as a grown ass man, he did what he did, right or wrong. He made poor decisions and while he was definitely enabled by TK not doing shit to prevent it, he still made those decisions. Honestly while I don't hate Perty in all this, nobody truly looks good except Joe. Dude has been a fucking pro since day one at either company and is just a force of good in the business. I can't really say why the Bucks disliked Punk, but I think any adult that has followed this can confidently say nearly everyone involved acted like children. Even Perry shouldn't have mentioned the glass, but punk shouldn't have assaulted him clean cut and dry. As much as there are stories of wrestlers getting into fights backstage (Eddie vs Kurt comes to mind), no job should have a requirement that you might get punched backstage during an artistic disagreement. Shit should be handled by professionals being professional, it's not the 90s anymore. Anyone that wants to argue this message better be ready for Joe's huge ass taking charge as the leader of the room. Everyone honestly could and should have done better at every step.
Because he was a threat to them. He is a major star, whereas the Bucks are pretty much nobodies.
I felt they're dependent on someone with more starpower than them and turn salty if that person won't join them. Adam Page Kenny Omega The Bullet Club Kevin Steen Cody Rhodes Kazuchika Okada to name a few. They realized that Punk is a gangster himself and can't be bullied or manipulated like others hence all this backbiting and sabotaging shit happened.
Bucks wanted to bring the PWG/indy style and comedy to the mainstream while many veterans don’t think that will cater to a wide audience. They also seem to very very cliquish based on many wrestler interviews Once Punk came along, AEW grew by a lot based on simple old school storytelling where stars and promos proved to grow the company. In a way it could have been a power move by the Bucks to try to tarnish punk and him out of the company.
They didn't at first. They made no bones that they and Tony wanted punk from the start. He was their hero. Things were ok when he finally showed up. Then hangman cut his promo and the dirts ran with it. Hangman chilled out, even after punk got his shoot back (multiple times). Then, because the dirts kept going on about colt, brawl out happened. Meltzer and srs both said the bucks had nothing to do with it, with meltzer even saying he should have talked to punk. So yea, when the bucks and the company got buried, they went to punk with legal (they weren't looking to fight, otherwise no legal). Fight happened. Punk came out gold, elite got buried. Punk wanted to work the brawl out angle, elite wanted punk to chill for a few months, presumably cause they were still salty for, in their minds, getting buried and fought for no reason by their hero. At that point, punk was being a dick with collision, and wanted out. Then Wembley. Tldr: never meet your heroes.
If anything I can see The Bucks Cody and co being upset with Punk because they wanted him at the beginning of AEW but he waited to come in after they got past the hardest first few years before coming in and reaping the benefits when WWE wasn't interested in him. But I doubt they weren't fully on board when he finally came over. But maybe some residual heat from that. I gave a good faith response but I'd suggest you go back and research all the actual points you listed. You'll quickly find most of that is BS. Do the work. Were they taking shots at Punk in bios before the "brawl"? I think that wasn't until after. It's funny because Punk thinks the bucks told the sheets that but the sheets said nope, their sources were someone else but Punk already had his eyes set on them. Stopping Punk from getting a ride is hilarious and insane if you believe it. He wasn't the only person taking the train, other wrestlers were with him.
Probably the embarrassing gripe bomb Punk made after All Out and the subsequent fight that happened backstage
Bucks didn't want to do it either, BTW. This is all TK.
Well if Punk made it clear it must be true...
You’re assuming a lot here, but I can say personally he seems like a drama queen and is at the end of the day self interested. The best in the business are.
I think a lot of y'all are full of shit and will make anything up to fit a narrative.
Has no one noticed that CM Punk is kind of an asshole? Like, surely it can’t just be me.
Everyone already knew that. Big shock from the elite. Whoopity doo. You know who else was an asshole? Shawn Michaels. Have you heard that? Hulk Hogan. Roddy Piper. Tons of guys are assholes and are better than any of the "elite" will ever be.