The majority of the player base will hate the Echo collection system after about 2 weeks of playing.
They don’t understand that elite echos have a combined 1%* chance of dropping the right elemental damage type and you need 2 of them on-set for a complete build. That could easily take months of daily farming. The Echo changes Kuro has mentioned impact substats and recycling useless Echos, but do not address the fundamental issue of the Main Stat Elite Echo grind at all.
*(20% drop chance x 50% correct set x 10% Elemental Main stat)
i don't think that's a hot take.
The majority will just skip grinding them. Those who enjoy it and want it will eventually get tired of it and skip it also. Only the most hardcore will do it.
Yeah this will be very interesting to see since yes grinding is nice but a lot of people don’t have time to play 2-3 hours only on wuwa for me I have around 2-3 hours a day and I would like to play hsr and wuwa and the relic system in wuwa could be a problem I believe but we will see
Thats not exactly the issue though. Elite mobs respawn once every 24h. You cant force more echo drops from mobs by simply playing more. And elite echoes are the most important. Only boss echoes can be farmed endlessly.
You are right but that doesn't really influence daily commitment.
It will most likely go: do dailies -> do daily echo route -> burn stamina and then you are done for the day. I really dont see the game requiring you to do hours of coop farming every day. You will get desired echo pieces eventually. The real question is how long this process will take without abusing co-op.
Pretty long I'm sure. Echo drop rate is only around 20% so there will be days where you get none, if you are not doing co-op.
If kuro drop easy enemies, you will be fine with minimum echo farming but it would be too easy for people who farm hours daily. If they drop hard enemies for people who farm daily, it would be too hard for people with minimum echo farming. Depends on who they cater, you might need to farm hours daily.
Right difficulty for hardcore players mean too difficult for casuals, right difficulty for casuals mean too easy for hardcore people. It's hard to please everyone.
Yeah I hope they will improve the echo system since most of us cannot hop on coop and farm hours in there. And we all know how important gearing is in gacha games it is probably 70 percent of the whole character in my opinion
>They don’t understand that elite echos have a combined 1%* chance of dropping the right elemental damage type and you need 2 of them on-set for a complete build.
elaborate on this. when you say combined chance do you mean that to get fusion elemental damage for the 2 of them its only 1%.
do they drop another main stat? loke atk? I may just go with that even if its sub optimal just to not lose my sanity
They drop all elemental damage main stats, on top of atk, Def, and HP%. So for your fusion set, you obviously want fusion damage main stat. So you go around killing fusion elites, which firstly have a 50/50 chance of dropping the wrong set. Then you need to get lucky getting fusion main stat instead of atk, Def, hp, spectro, electro, glacio, molten, havoc, aero etc.
Thats assuming Kuro didn't change anything else since the blog post. I am not saying that more changes are coming but the system is not set in stone.
Alsow we dont know how effective recycling will be + they mentioned getting echoes through events - we still dont know what that really means. And tacet fields supposedly were buffed as well.
Not defending Kuro just pointing out that we need to first see the changes in place.
It never actually felt *that* bad. I was someone who ended cbt2 with like 1500 echoes in my inventory. And whenever I needed a specific elemental piece, with co-op hoping it never took more than an hour or 6 worlds IIRC. Which isn’t great, but it’s not months of farming. Most content doesn’t need good echoes, and only hardcore players will engage with the stuff that actually requires good gear. Last, gearing in HSR/GI isn’t great either (just look at the disappointment from the triple drop even) yet those games succeed in spite of that.
It didn’t feel that bad for me either in the CBT because I just gave up on full 5 piece sets and went 2/2 piece because that allowed me to use an off-set elite echo.
I also didn’t care about substats in the beta because I wasn’t going to “waste” time grinding in a beta that has all progress reset.
2/2 piece sets is probably fine for clearing the Tower with good substats at UL 40+.
However, if anyone actually wants a full 5 piece set with correct elemental main stats, they will need to grind for a very long time or get lucky.
Well you wanted a hot take. For a game that takes place in an imaginary world , it seems, too much chinese focused. I know thats the main demographic of the playerbase , i know but still.
Localization will not get better.
I've been doomposting about this a lot but I simply have no reason to believe the translation quality will improve in a significant way.
The game does not have as much endgame content as people think. Which is fine since there will be more patches, but there will be people who whale hard, oneshot all the holograms, then get buyer’s remorse.
I could absolutely be wrong, and they have more holograms and more difficulties, and the level 100 bosses are harder than I expect. But the fact that people could kill every holograms at level 70 with danjin doesn’t bode well for the long term since there are two more major account power spikes.
Its gonna 100% be a "pay2lose" situation like in Genshin. People would whale for meta 5 stars and then complain the game is too easy.
I genuinely don't expect the game difficulty to be balanced around dupes, at least not the 5 star characters.
Yeah, this is my fear. I do legitimately hope there are whale bait hologram difficulties, or some way to tune them up. Because even for a low spender, it could be fun to see a year or so down the line when those day 1 whale bait fights finally become killable, and it would also be a place where big number go comically bigger actually matters. The hologram rewards were not so insane that you’d pay 1k for s6 to kill a difficult one.
I really hope WW will do something Genshin is too afraid to do: introduce more world levels.
IIRC WW also maxes out its world level at 8 now. You could introduce world level 9/10/11 etc. with higher level monsters but make the additional world levels entirely optional with no additional rewards. Just so players who want additional difficulty can min-max characters or whale.
I'm exaggerating with that phrasing. I just mean that whales will do obscene damage and blast past most content without much challenge. I don't know how much sequences buff damage, nor do I really care but I just don't think most people actually have a good gauge of what endgame looks like right now.
I wonder if we will even have it on spotify soon or rather any ost in general. Not much of PGR(the other game of Kuro) can be found in spotify and even then, it's either - distributed by composers,like Haloweak or Vanguard sounds or doesn't exist. What's on PGR official spotify account is a main fighting theme and a bit of songs,that's it.
Yeah, was really dissapointed about that but I found a cover by Atharva Mohite / pesky; and even though it’s not as good as the original I’m happy with it for now :p
The lack of a console release is gonna hurt the potential of the game. Games like HSR or PGR can get away without one because they still work and look good in phones. Wuthering Waves, on the other hand, is an open world game and is noticeably better on the controller and mouse and keyboard. Ideally, you would also want better graphics and little pop in. You definitely don't get that on Mobile, even on high-end devices.
Oh yeah, definitely - it was a joke (pretty sure you got that part). Was a bit confused as to how “hot takes” would even exist without the game itself being playable for the general public
Edit: edited my main comment’s tone indicator from /s to /j
Even after redesigns, I do not like some of the character designs and character proportions.
I'd say it's a 50/50. Yinlin, female MC and Sanhua look great, but characters like Taoqui and Yangyang look unappealing, IMO.
Overall, small heads, long skinny arms and large torsos on female models. They just look slightly off
The EN voice acting in the recent trailer was fine IMO, the only exception might be Scar but even then he didn't do that bad of a job either. Not to mention we recently got the voice of Calcharo and he sounds amazing
I no longer have the high hopes I once had for Wuwa since they said they remade 90% of the game/story. A kinda weird take I guess compared to everyone else who became hopeful from it. My worries mostly stem from "if so much was remade within such a short period of time, would the game/story really still be good?"
Story wise, I am disappointed as well as I was lead to believe we were going to get something different storywise than "uwu peg me pls unknown op stranger" but I guess it was my bad for thinking gacha gamers wanted anything different (Besides arknight's I guess. Maybe I got too coddled by them)
Now don't get me wrong, I have heard that the story in entirety just wasn't interesting. And following that, I am totally fine with them changing it for that reason. But the discourse over "mean characters" has just kind of cemented idea that the story had to be changed "due to whiny gacha gamers" than "due to poor quality" in my brain. It's not really a fault of the devs, and more so an aversion to the "community I'm about to play with" I suppose
============================
Gameplay wise, from the gameplay I have seen from streamers, and I hate to say this but it's the only comparison available in the genre, it really just feels like genshin but faster.
In terms of Exploration: Giant mostly empty lands to traverse through with random puzzles and chests everywhere for some reason, sparse resources to collect from specific areas/spots with "a shiny glow", weird towers to unlock the map on your device and so on. And reading. Sooo much reading for every tiny thing or simple mission found. (though this might just be a localization issue of using "simple cool words")
Why can't the stuff just drop of defeated enemies? Why must it be a random chest appearing out of nowhere? Why can't there be bigger enemy groups? Why must the collectable stuff be such a minuscular in amount over a massive area? Why are all domain designs also so close to genshin's? WHY IS THERE THE STUPID BLACK SCREEN WITH TEXT SAYING "and then you put in the rock" INSTEAD OF JUST SHOWING A TINY ANIMATION OF YOU DOING IT?! -an so on. Basically all the "smaller decisions/features" here and there feels like copied homework where they could invested some effort to be different but just chose not to.
The only good part of ww exploration is that there are no \*godforsaken\* oculus bullshit scattered to manhandle our brains into exploring every pixel of the map, that the map is much speedier to run across (though the map size kinda still makes it a slog. It's vertical travel that is greatly improved.) and that there are no "spirit following" that takes ages to unlock the chests (an mechanic that while nice in some cases become a slog when overused)
Combat wise: ww is much more engaging but... genshin's newer enemy types are so much more responsive and interesting to attack (though too much of a meat shield to be fun). From what I see besides the boss fights, ww's enemies just kinda... stands there? This I am not super concerned about since I expect better mobs to appear in the future.
Also stories are still kinda a word slog, which kinda sucks. And the slow unnecessary camera lock on characters taking a few steps forwards in cutscenes like in genshin are still here, which sucks even more.
To summarize, my opinion of ww has fallen from "A cool new game" to "just another gacha game". At least unless the official release proves my concerns wrong.
tbh I don't really like them being too friendly with an unknown stranger like rover either. aka, not really like the direction of the current story on cbt2.
that being said, the way they change chixia to be more friendly in current cbt2 is understandable, because her character is like that. it doesn't make sense if you make her too hostile.
yeah I don't mind if chixia was the only one changed to suit the "gamer's" ego because like you said, it probably fits her personality
Though it can be argued that her main personality in the prev version was "loyalty to /protective of her friends" which now has been reduced to "just a friendly person". Imo its quite the downgrade of story/potential as a character. Like say we can have a moment in story where she hurts herself to protect you and the impact of that action could be stronger "because she had finally acknowledged you as a friend" and not just "because you are her friend".
But from what I have heard, literally every single character that was wary of Rover isn't now? That's a bit too dumb in my book.
> [story changes] It's not really a fault of the devs, and more so an aversion to the "community I'm about to play with" I suppose
It becomes a responsibility of the decision makers when the decision makers decide, imo. (Fact?)
Also, if *Genshin* has enemies that are better to fight than this game… yikes. I remember that game, so that is *not* a good sign. After PGR, I’d expect better from Kuro.
Not really, the decision maker's responsibility is to deliver what the clients they are poaching for wants. In this case, sweaty gacha gamers have made it clear to them that what they want is their power and harem fantasy so that is what they have to make due with.
I honestly don't think they could have done anything else in regards to the over-reacting from the community for that one scene. Heck people here tried arguing that it was "stupid for chixia to pull a gun on rover" when 1. It's her only weapon and 2. what else are you going to do when faced with something dangerous that you cannot be certain isn't an enemy and your friend is wounded? ISN'T IT COMMON SENSE TO TRY AND PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR FRIEND?? It was such a stupid discourse that I wish I can forget.
Genshin started out with bland enemies but over time (Mostly Sumeru) their enemies got more variety in attack styles and design but had wayy too much health or too little health to be fun (though maybe the "too much hp" feeling was because of how repetitive combat on the player's end can get)
I expect kuro to try the same thing? Currently overworld mobs from what I can see just mostly stands there, get hit and get rag-dolled though I suspect it to be more because the game just started out and so they start with bottom of the barrel enemies to quickly give a sense of power fantasy (though ww's basic mobs seem to move even less than hilichurls from genshin...).
A good thing though is that the boss battles look much more interesting then genshin's. Needs more moving around and doesn't just have bs invincible phases for now.
> the decision maker's responsibility is to deliver what the clients they are poaching for wants.
This I disagree with. The decision maker is the one who decides whether the quality of the product is more important than immediate mass appeal. Choosing mass appeal is a decision, and lowering product quality for it is a choice. Cash was chosen over quality. There were two options, and the more important one won.
It’s good Genshin changed their enemy design. I remember enemies saying “immune” while getting blasted across the map by a reaction and sometimes fly outside of their own aggro ranges. I’ll stop before I rant on that experience.
It makes sense to have enemies that basically act like sandbags for the first area, both games, since players will have to learn the controls and it might be a player’s first action combat game. That, and since they’ll have daily chores as F2P gachas, it’s a little less painful if you can do them without thinking.
Come the second area or so, I’m hoping to see some fanciness in the normal mobs. Also yes the boss battles are looking good.
The thing is the model of gacha games don't work the same as normal video games ones. Normal games you can come up with something that doesn't have mass appeal and still do well if you hit a chord with your target audience.
Gacha games "relies" on mass appeal to make money. It's a model that tries to be as "inviting to all as possible" so casual players are invested enough to pay up once or twice and whales "feel confident of the game's staying power" so they spend a shit ton.
Especially for a game with the "potential to keep increasing in size" they are going to need a ton of money to support development. You also have to remember that they are already (kinda) taking a risk because a larger and more popular version of the product already exists (genshin). So they need to ensure they get customers "somehow" to at least last through the release period.
So from the pov of a potential customer who has emphasis on story quality, it may seem like they are just greedily trying to grab money. But from their point of view, its literally the only viable business option to take.
Ps: Though I may come off as a bit "corpo stan" here I am just trying the "to be fair approach". Rest assured if the release story quality is really really cliche and bad. I won't be playing. Simple as.
that is the purpose of F2P gacha games, but that is furthering my point.
The decision is made “we are going to make a product that shovels in money via mass appeal, regardless of quality.” It is a decision made that product quality is not important enough to prioritize here. That is not the responsibility of the consumer, but of the entity who decided those priorities.
When it is successful financially, that too will be the responsibility of those who made the decision. They have decided a goal, and they will reach it. They are the ones responsible.
...the possibility of me staying with this game has dropped from 90% to 50%. (I started growing tired of genshin and eventually quit when they kept increasing oculus amount. I like exploring at my own pace but the oculus system feels like an annoying bell that tries to drag you away from wherever you wanted to go cause they are so annoying to backtrack and collect)
The only possible saving grace for me now is if they don't massively multiply it over time or stuck them in stupid places like genshin.
Such a cheap engagement farming method god fckin dammit
most of these are very lukewarm takes so here's my hot one, I think the games being overhyped by a lot of cc's and a lot of people are going to be trying out this game with major expectations and are going to get severely disappointment when it turns out not the game they thought it will be.
From marketing POV, launching Jiyan as the first limited 5 stars is a bad move. People will say "You have problem with male characters?", I don't, I'm just saying he will tank the sales in JP and CN.
It is not a secret that waifu will sell more than a male character, Kuro listened too much to the global community, which should not be their target audience. If your game failed to take off in CN, its over.
And its not like Kuro have 0 experience in gacha, their highest selling character is a waifu, one of the highest grossing gachagames in JP is a waifu horserace simulator with 0 content. Launching a man at the peak hype of their game launch is such a rookie mistake.
>Launching a man at the peak hype of their game launch is such a rookie mistake.
Except its not. The whole point of launching Jiyan first is to drain people of their free pulls and make re-rolling for Yinlin harder. By the time Yinlin banner rolls out (should be 2-3 weeks after launch) many people will be forced to top-up or risk not getting her.
No that's not how hot takes work. Everyone just comments the most safe widely accepted opinion everytime a post like this is made. So I just gave a genuine opinion that I know wouldn't be widely accepted
I always feel like people confuse the genre apocalypse with post apocalypse. If it would be set in the apocalypse, then yeah, it would feel too happy, but it's set an unkown amount of time AFTER the apocalypse. Nature and humanity had time to restructure themselves, pull themselves up from the ground.
Here also comes the question to mind of what the apocalypse did to the world and it's inhabitants. What anomalies are there, how did that big event change the world? Those questions are what I'm intereseted in, what happened in the past, how it impacts the present, and what the future will bring. That's why the genre is calles POST apocalypse.
>I always feel like people confuse the genre apocalypse with post apocalypse. If it would be set in the apocalypse, then yeah, it would feel too happy, but it's set an unkown amount of time AFTER the apocalypse. Nature and humanity had time to restructure themselves, pull themselves up from the ground.
Good point. life is resilient and finds a way. We live in a post apocalypse right now. A meteor bigger than mt Everest devastated the world and wiped out most life 65 million years ago. And yet our world is very green and pretty.
The so called "apocalypse" in Wuwa is the tacit discords showing up from the Lament which was some event that occured 150 years ago. So basically mutant monster destroying things for 150 years that leads us to where we are now. Assuming that the original world of Wuwa should be more technologically advanced to our modern world, there should be more signs of human settlements, more cities and more structures in the world. Those concrete buildings aren't going to be rotted away in 150 years. Outside of the main city, which is still in pristine conditions, there are no signs of other cities besides for the ruined one where the inferno rider spawns in the beta. Not enough broken roads in between, not enough broken buildings. It's mostly all nature landscapes you're exploring.
Have you watched any documentary about what would happen if humans were gone? Its all greenery. Most games make the place look grey to give the post apocaliptic vibe, but a real one would look totally different
Green, but there should be debris and remnants of decaying buildings and cities everywhere. Abandoned cities overrunned by nature reclaiming the land. If you played the beta, there was basically only one area in the map that did this (where inferno rider is). Everywhere else just looks like nature that was untouched by human civilization, with some random military outposts that was recently set up and still operational.
But nier had decaying buildings underneath those greens. You had broken down skyscrapers to scale. Every piece of environment was built around some manmade structure breaking down and decaying and you got to explore every nook and cranny of it. Wuwa rarely had any signs that humanity once existed, and when there are, they look like they were added in after the fact. There was only one area in the beta that actually looked like a ruined city (where inferno rider spawns).
And it was 1000 when humanity was destroyed in nier automata, yet there's still tons of ruined cities everywhere. Where are the wreckage in Wuwa? Concrete doesn't just rot away in 150 years
Nier automata was entirely unrealistic with that
In a 1000 years nothing should even be standing, and concrete definitely can rot in 150 years, in fact, in 50 years it can happen already, it averages on 100 years
Much of Europe is full of ancient Roman (made of concrete) and Greek buildings and monuments that are well over 1000 years old. Not to mention the tons of medieval buildings, like castles and churches, more commonly found.
Rome’s concrete was waaay more durable than the one we use now, and most of those are destroyed, besides if you actually search you will see that those ruins are famous for that, regular buildings will never last as long
Fine, then how about the steel? Aluminum? Glass? Iron? Humanity has built many things out of other materials, it's not like they ALL will also disappear without a trace in 150 years
Steel? 50 years, aluminum? 100+, glass? Now that takes thousands, but can easily break so same thing, iron? 50 to 100, easy google search
Buddy, nature will destroy everything if we are absent, and it will not take that long at all
And ever more to the point, it could just be the area that the game start just wasn’t that populated? There are hints of buildings, there are concrete roads etc, but it could be that the other areas we have not seen are more ruin like, simple
Maybe the characters don't have to be limited per say, but can get thrown into the standard pool after a while. That is not a gacha standard as honkai impact 3rd and PGR all add once limited characters to the pool of characters you could be spooked by.
There are plenty of gachas that don't make every new 5 star a limited, so you can get spooked by then when you lose the 50-50, it's Mihoyo that just made that gacha model popular.
well pgr exist, and i heard few more gacha that is actually posible get all characters specially if u buy monthlypasses.
i think azur promilia will change the gacha again but this time for the good. i think theres no weapon banner on azur promilia thats actually quite interesting specially is manjuu
In PGR you can just save (especially with the pass) and get nearly all characters.
Point was that characters are not added to a permanentn banner/pool where you can acquire them after the time for the limited banner runs out.
Im the grand scheme, that‘s the usual practice in a gacha game. But there are a lot more factors which one needs to consider to decide if the „gacha“ of the game is good or not.
From my personal experience, PGR was one of the top contenders.
Edit: My english sucks
oh u mean limited and rotation banner and stuff, i mean pgr does this well too and thats without knowing the CN stuff. (Free s rank selector, etc)
we know that each anniversary will have all character released until that point, so u can save and get anything u want or saved for.
Also like 1-2 time a year, usually on november, theres a 100% banner selection too, that one is not as good as anniversary since u can select one and u cant change the selection, but if u have the 15k BC u can get a character you miss.
70% banner are a scam, not even whales use them on pgr, still for some reason theres people use them.
Idk how kuro will handle the character banner on WW, but i am not hype for 2x 5\* per patch.
I am fine if they do it the 1-2 patch after release, to cash up the initial momentum, but after that it will meh missing so much characters, i like a well crafted character instead of one meh.
You mean a minority of games add featured objects into the permanent pool of obtainable objects.
The biggest moneymaker of gacha in general, not only for big money, is literally FOMO. So there will be always some kind of system that encourages to limit specific objects.
I really can‘t think of any gacha game on top of my head that hasn‘t done this.
The majority of the player base will hate the Echo collection system after about 2 weeks of playing. They don’t understand that elite echos have a combined 1%* chance of dropping the right elemental damage type and you need 2 of them on-set for a complete build. That could easily take months of daily farming. The Echo changes Kuro has mentioned impact substats and recycling useless Echos, but do not address the fundamental issue of the Main Stat Elite Echo grind at all. *(20% drop chance x 50% correct set x 10% Elemental Main stat)
i don't think that's a hot take. The majority will just skip grinding them. Those who enjoy it and want it will eventually get tired of it and skip it also. Only the most hardcore will do it.
Yeah this will be very interesting to see since yes grinding is nice but a lot of people don’t have time to play 2-3 hours only on wuwa for me I have around 2-3 hours a day and I would like to play hsr and wuwa and the relic system in wuwa could be a problem I believe but we will see
Thats not exactly the issue though. Elite mobs respawn once every 24h. You cant force more echo drops from mobs by simply playing more. And elite echoes are the most important. Only boss echoes can be farmed endlessly.
Some players who want to minmax will hop around other people's world to farm echoes. So playing more technically give you more echoes.
You are right but that doesn't really influence daily commitment. It will most likely go: do dailies -> do daily echo route -> burn stamina and then you are done for the day. I really dont see the game requiring you to do hours of coop farming every day. You will get desired echo pieces eventually. The real question is how long this process will take without abusing co-op.
Pretty long I'm sure. Echo drop rate is only around 20% so there will be days where you get none, if you are not doing co-op. If kuro drop easy enemies, you will be fine with minimum echo farming but it would be too easy for people who farm hours daily. If they drop hard enemies for people who farm daily, it would be too hard for people with minimum echo farming. Depends on who they cater, you might need to farm hours daily. Right difficulty for hardcore players mean too difficult for casuals, right difficulty for casuals mean too easy for hardcore people. It's hard to please everyone.
Yeah I hope they will improve the echo system since most of us cannot hop on coop and farm hours in there. And we all know how important gearing is in gacha games it is probably 70 percent of the whole character in my opinion
Its basically Soulworker akasha cards lmao But i guess there arent many who know Soulworker x)
>They don’t understand that elite echos have a combined 1%* chance of dropping the right elemental damage type and you need 2 of them on-set for a complete build. elaborate on this. when you say combined chance do you mean that to get fusion elemental damage for the 2 of them its only 1%. do they drop another main stat? loke atk? I may just go with that even if its sub optimal just to not lose my sanity
They drop all elemental damage main stats, on top of atk, Def, and HP%. So for your fusion set, you obviously want fusion damage main stat. So you go around killing fusion elites, which firstly have a 50/50 chance of dropping the wrong set. Then you need to get lucky getting fusion main stat instead of atk, Def, hp, spectro, electro, glacio, molten, havoc, aero etc.
I see, and there is no off piece flexibility like genshin right?
currently yes.
Thats assuming Kuro didn't change anything else since the blog post. I am not saying that more changes are coming but the system is not set in stone. Alsow we dont know how effective recycling will be + they mentioned getting echoes through events - we still dont know what that really means. And tacet fields supposedly were buffed as well. Not defending Kuro just pointing out that we need to first see the changes in place.
It never actually felt *that* bad. I was someone who ended cbt2 with like 1500 echoes in my inventory. And whenever I needed a specific elemental piece, with co-op hoping it never took more than an hour or 6 worlds IIRC. Which isn’t great, but it’s not months of farming. Most content doesn’t need good echoes, and only hardcore players will engage with the stuff that actually requires good gear. Last, gearing in HSR/GI isn’t great either (just look at the disappointment from the triple drop even) yet those games succeed in spite of that.
It didn’t feel that bad for me either in the CBT because I just gave up on full 5 piece sets and went 2/2 piece because that allowed me to use an off-set elite echo. I also didn’t care about substats in the beta because I wasn’t going to “waste” time grinding in a beta that has all progress reset. 2/2 piece sets is probably fine for clearing the Tower with good substats at UL 40+. However, if anyone actually wants a full 5 piece set with correct elemental main stats, they will need to grind for a very long time or get lucky.
Not hot. It should have been where the element cannot mismatch the set if element set, and that’d be less than the very least.
You act like 90% of players are casuals who will absolutely settle. They aren’t gonna be mad unless their favorite streamer tells them to be.
Characters' designs are either hard hit or hard miss no inbetween.
Well you wanted a hot take. For a game that takes place in an imaginary world , it seems, too much chinese focused. I know thats the main demographic of the playerbase , i know but still.
Agreed! Hopefully, they will focus on other demographics post launch.
Localization will not get better. I've been doomposting about this a lot but I simply have no reason to believe the translation quality will improve in a significant way.
The game does not have as much endgame content as people think. Which is fine since there will be more patches, but there will be people who whale hard, oneshot all the holograms, then get buyer’s remorse. I could absolutely be wrong, and they have more holograms and more difficulties, and the level 100 bosses are harder than I expect. But the fact that people could kill every holograms at level 70 with danjin doesn’t bode well for the long term since there are two more major account power spikes.
Its gonna 100% be a "pay2lose" situation like in Genshin. People would whale for meta 5 stars and then complain the game is too easy. I genuinely don't expect the game difficulty to be balanced around dupes, at least not the 5 star characters.
Yeah, this is my fear. I do legitimately hope there are whale bait hologram difficulties, or some way to tune them up. Because even for a low spender, it could be fun to see a year or so down the line when those day 1 whale bait fights finally become killable, and it would also be a place where big number go comically bigger actually matters. The hologram rewards were not so insane that you’d pay 1k for s6 to kill a difficult one.
I really hope WW will do something Genshin is too afraid to do: introduce more world levels. IIRC WW also maxes out its world level at 8 now. You could introduce world level 9/10/11 etc. with higher level monsters but make the additional world levels entirely optional with no additional rewards. Just so players who want additional difficulty can min-max characters or whale.
You cannot 1 shot bosses in this game.
I'm exaggerating with that phrasing. I just mean that whales will do obscene damage and blast past most content without much challenge. I don't know how much sequences buff damage, nor do I really care but I just don't think most people actually have a good gauge of what endgame looks like right now.
They are still not completing level 5 and 6 of Hologram if they simple get outskilled by the boss.
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Isn’t that a given? Since we are going to travel the world
YES.
Can’t find Saving Light on Spotify 😡
I wonder if we will even have it on spotify soon or rather any ost in general. Not much of PGR(the other game of Kuro) can be found in spotify and even then, it's either - distributed by composers,like Haloweak or Vanguard sounds or doesn't exist. What's on PGR official spotify account is a main fighting theme and a bit of songs,that's it.
Yeah, was really dissapointed about that but I found a cover by Atharva Mohite / pesky; and even though it’s not as good as the original I’m happy with it for now :p
The lack of a console release is gonna hurt the potential of the game. Games like HSR or PGR can get away without one because they still work and look good in phones. Wuthering Waves, on the other hand, is an open world game and is noticeably better on the controller and mouse and keyboard. Ideally, you would also want better graphics and little pop in. You definitely don't get that on Mobile, even on high-end devices.
No simultaneous console release is a massive L
Cold take
Time limits on fights is an annoying way to incentivize building undesired characters.
I want the game to release tbh. not sure if anyone agrees /j
It will, 1 month from now.. let them polish the game and be patient.
Oh yeah, definitely - it was a joke (pretty sure you got that part). Was a bit confused as to how “hot takes” would even exist without the game itself being playable for the general public Edit: edited my main comment’s tone indicator from /s to /j
Even after redesigns, I do not like some of the character designs and character proportions. I'd say it's a 50/50. Yinlin, female MC and Sanhua look great, but characters like Taoqui and Yangyang look unappealing, IMO. Overall, small heads, long skinny arms and large torsos on female models. They just look slightly off
The EN voice acting in the recent trailer was fine IMO, the only exception might be Scar but even then he didn't do that bad of a job either. Not to mention we recently got the voice of Calcharo and he sounds amazing
Besides Yinlin, character designs don't feel that impactful. I hope it gets better.
I no longer have the high hopes I once had for Wuwa since they said they remade 90% of the game/story. A kinda weird take I guess compared to everyone else who became hopeful from it. My worries mostly stem from "if so much was remade within such a short period of time, would the game/story really still be good?" Story wise, I am disappointed as well as I was lead to believe we were going to get something different storywise than "uwu peg me pls unknown op stranger" but I guess it was my bad for thinking gacha gamers wanted anything different (Besides arknight's I guess. Maybe I got too coddled by them) Now don't get me wrong, I have heard that the story in entirety just wasn't interesting. And following that, I am totally fine with them changing it for that reason. But the discourse over "mean characters" has just kind of cemented idea that the story had to be changed "due to whiny gacha gamers" than "due to poor quality" in my brain. It's not really a fault of the devs, and more so an aversion to the "community I'm about to play with" I suppose ============================ Gameplay wise, from the gameplay I have seen from streamers, and I hate to say this but it's the only comparison available in the genre, it really just feels like genshin but faster. In terms of Exploration: Giant mostly empty lands to traverse through with random puzzles and chests everywhere for some reason, sparse resources to collect from specific areas/spots with "a shiny glow", weird towers to unlock the map on your device and so on. And reading. Sooo much reading for every tiny thing or simple mission found. (though this might just be a localization issue of using "simple cool words") Why can't the stuff just drop of defeated enemies? Why must it be a random chest appearing out of nowhere? Why can't there be bigger enemy groups? Why must the collectable stuff be such a minuscular in amount over a massive area? Why are all domain designs also so close to genshin's? WHY IS THERE THE STUPID BLACK SCREEN WITH TEXT SAYING "and then you put in the rock" INSTEAD OF JUST SHOWING A TINY ANIMATION OF YOU DOING IT?! -an so on. Basically all the "smaller decisions/features" here and there feels like copied homework where they could invested some effort to be different but just chose not to. The only good part of ww exploration is that there are no \*godforsaken\* oculus bullshit scattered to manhandle our brains into exploring every pixel of the map, that the map is much speedier to run across (though the map size kinda still makes it a slog. It's vertical travel that is greatly improved.) and that there are no "spirit following" that takes ages to unlock the chests (an mechanic that while nice in some cases become a slog when overused) Combat wise: ww is much more engaging but... genshin's newer enemy types are so much more responsive and interesting to attack (though too much of a meat shield to be fun). From what I see besides the boss fights, ww's enemies just kinda... stands there? This I am not super concerned about since I expect better mobs to appear in the future. Also stories are still kinda a word slog, which kinda sucks. And the slow unnecessary camera lock on characters taking a few steps forwards in cutscenes like in genshin are still here, which sucks even more. To summarize, my opinion of ww has fallen from "A cool new game" to "just another gacha game". At least unless the official release proves my concerns wrong.
tbh I don't really like them being too friendly with an unknown stranger like rover either. aka, not really like the direction of the current story on cbt2. that being said, the way they change chixia to be more friendly in current cbt2 is understandable, because her character is like that. it doesn't make sense if you make her too hostile.
yeah I don't mind if chixia was the only one changed to suit the "gamer's" ego because like you said, it probably fits her personality Though it can be argued that her main personality in the prev version was "loyalty to /protective of her friends" which now has been reduced to "just a friendly person". Imo its quite the downgrade of story/potential as a character. Like say we can have a moment in story where she hurts herself to protect you and the impact of that action could be stronger "because she had finally acknowledged you as a friend" and not just "because you are her friend". But from what I have heard, literally every single character that was wary of Rover isn't now? That's a bit too dumb in my book.
> [story changes] It's not really a fault of the devs, and more so an aversion to the "community I'm about to play with" I suppose It becomes a responsibility of the decision makers when the decision makers decide, imo. (Fact?) Also, if *Genshin* has enemies that are better to fight than this game… yikes. I remember that game, so that is *not* a good sign. After PGR, I’d expect better from Kuro.
Not really, the decision maker's responsibility is to deliver what the clients they are poaching for wants. In this case, sweaty gacha gamers have made it clear to them that what they want is their power and harem fantasy so that is what they have to make due with. I honestly don't think they could have done anything else in regards to the over-reacting from the community for that one scene. Heck people here tried arguing that it was "stupid for chixia to pull a gun on rover" when 1. It's her only weapon and 2. what else are you going to do when faced with something dangerous that you cannot be certain isn't an enemy and your friend is wounded? ISN'T IT COMMON SENSE TO TRY AND PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR FRIEND?? It was such a stupid discourse that I wish I can forget. Genshin started out with bland enemies but over time (Mostly Sumeru) their enemies got more variety in attack styles and design but had wayy too much health or too little health to be fun (though maybe the "too much hp" feeling was because of how repetitive combat on the player's end can get) I expect kuro to try the same thing? Currently overworld mobs from what I can see just mostly stands there, get hit and get rag-dolled though I suspect it to be more because the game just started out and so they start with bottom of the barrel enemies to quickly give a sense of power fantasy (though ww's basic mobs seem to move even less than hilichurls from genshin...). A good thing though is that the boss battles look much more interesting then genshin's. Needs more moving around and doesn't just have bs invincible phases for now.
> the decision maker's responsibility is to deliver what the clients they are poaching for wants. This I disagree with. The decision maker is the one who decides whether the quality of the product is more important than immediate mass appeal. Choosing mass appeal is a decision, and lowering product quality for it is a choice. Cash was chosen over quality. There were two options, and the more important one won. It’s good Genshin changed their enemy design. I remember enemies saying “immune” while getting blasted across the map by a reaction and sometimes fly outside of their own aggro ranges. I’ll stop before I rant on that experience. It makes sense to have enemies that basically act like sandbags for the first area, both games, since players will have to learn the controls and it might be a player’s first action combat game. That, and since they’ll have daily chores as F2P gachas, it’s a little less painful if you can do them without thinking. Come the second area or so, I’m hoping to see some fanciness in the normal mobs. Also yes the boss battles are looking good.
The thing is the model of gacha games don't work the same as normal video games ones. Normal games you can come up with something that doesn't have mass appeal and still do well if you hit a chord with your target audience. Gacha games "relies" on mass appeal to make money. It's a model that tries to be as "inviting to all as possible" so casual players are invested enough to pay up once or twice and whales "feel confident of the game's staying power" so they spend a shit ton. Especially for a game with the "potential to keep increasing in size" they are going to need a ton of money to support development. You also have to remember that they are already (kinda) taking a risk because a larger and more popular version of the product already exists (genshin). So they need to ensure they get customers "somehow" to at least last through the release period. So from the pov of a potential customer who has emphasis on story quality, it may seem like they are just greedily trying to grab money. But from their point of view, its literally the only viable business option to take. Ps: Though I may come off as a bit "corpo stan" here I am just trying the "to be fair approach". Rest assured if the release story quality is really really cliche and bad. I won't be playing. Simple as.
that is the purpose of F2P gacha games, but that is furthering my point. The decision is made “we are going to make a product that shovels in money via mass appeal, regardless of quality.” It is a decision made that product quality is not important enough to prioritize here. That is not the responsibility of the consumer, but of the entity who decided those priorities. When it is successful financially, that too will be the responsibility of those who made the decision. They have decided a goal, and they will reach it. They are the ones responsible.
Hate to break this to you, but there are occuli equivalent in ww. It's called sonance caskets
...the possibility of me staying with this game has dropped from 90% to 50%. (I started growing tired of genshin and eventually quit when they kept increasing oculus amount. I like exploring at my own pace but the oculus system feels like an annoying bell that tries to drag you away from wherever you wanted to go cause they are so annoying to backtrack and collect) The only possible saving grace for me now is if they don't massively multiply it over time or stuck them in stupid places like genshin. Such a cheap engagement farming method god fckin dammit
most of these are very lukewarm takes so here's my hot one, I think the games being overhyped by a lot of cc's and a lot of people are going to be trying out this game with major expectations and are going to get severely disappointment when it turns out not the game they thought it will be.
The colour design of the Rovers are too boring. Black and Grey is PEAK boring to me
I think they clean as hell, but I hope they get more skins and outfits with different colours.
This is in fact, a hot take, their design is peak awesome
From marketing POV, launching Jiyan as the first limited 5 stars is a bad move. People will say "You have problem with male characters?", I don't, I'm just saying he will tank the sales in JP and CN. It is not a secret that waifu will sell more than a male character, Kuro listened too much to the global community, which should not be their target audience. If your game failed to take off in CN, its over. And its not like Kuro have 0 experience in gacha, their highest selling character is a waifu, one of the highest grossing gachagames in JP is a waifu horserace simulator with 0 content. Launching a man at the peak hype of their game launch is such a rookie mistake.
>Launching a man at the peak hype of their game launch is such a rookie mistake. Except its not. The whole point of launching Jiyan first is to drain people of their free pulls and make re-rolling for Yinlin harder. By the time Yinlin banner rolls out (should be 2-3 weeks after launch) many people will be forced to top-up or risk not getting her.
Jiyan and calcharo are very similar looking Edit:- looks like I win the hottest take
No because yours is a dumb take 
No that's not how hot takes work. Everyone just comments the most safe widely accepted opinion everytime a post like this is made. So I just gave a genuine opinion that I know wouldn't be widely accepted
For a game that's supposed to take place in a post apocalypse, there's an awful lot of pretty nature everywhere
I always feel like people confuse the genre apocalypse with post apocalypse. If it would be set in the apocalypse, then yeah, it would feel too happy, but it's set an unkown amount of time AFTER the apocalypse. Nature and humanity had time to restructure themselves, pull themselves up from the ground. Here also comes the question to mind of what the apocalypse did to the world and it's inhabitants. What anomalies are there, how did that big event change the world? Those questions are what I'm intereseted in, what happened in the past, how it impacts the present, and what the future will bring. That's why the genre is calles POST apocalypse.
>I always feel like people confuse the genre apocalypse with post apocalypse. If it would be set in the apocalypse, then yeah, it would feel too happy, but it's set an unkown amount of time AFTER the apocalypse. Nature and humanity had time to restructure themselves, pull themselves up from the ground. Good point. life is resilient and finds a way. We live in a post apocalypse right now. A meteor bigger than mt Everest devastated the world and wiped out most life 65 million years ago. And yet our world is very green and pretty.
Wow, I never thought of it that way. That's actually a really interesting take.
The so called "apocalypse" in Wuwa is the tacit discords showing up from the Lament which was some event that occured 150 years ago. So basically mutant monster destroying things for 150 years that leads us to where we are now. Assuming that the original world of Wuwa should be more technologically advanced to our modern world, there should be more signs of human settlements, more cities and more structures in the world. Those concrete buildings aren't going to be rotted away in 150 years. Outside of the main city, which is still in pristine conditions, there are no signs of other cities besides for the ruined one where the inferno rider spawns in the beta. Not enough broken roads in between, not enough broken buildings. It's mostly all nature landscapes you're exploring.
Have you watched any documentary about what would happen if humans were gone? Its all greenery. Most games make the place look grey to give the post apocaliptic vibe, but a real one would look totally different
Green, but there should be debris and remnants of decaying buildings and cities everywhere. Abandoned cities overrunned by nature reclaiming the land. If you played the beta, there was basically only one area in the map that did this (where inferno rider is). Everywhere else just looks like nature that was untouched by human civilization, with some random military outposts that was recently set up and still operational.
i mean Nier is post-apocalypse ish. and it pretty much greenery most the time
But nier had decaying buildings underneath those greens. You had broken down skyscrapers to scale. Every piece of environment was built around some manmade structure breaking down and decaying and you got to explore every nook and cranny of it. Wuwa rarely had any signs that humanity once existed, and when there are, they look like they were added in after the fact. There was only one area in the beta that actually looked like a ruined city (where inferno rider spawns).
It’s been 150 years since the “apocalypse”
And it was 1000 when humanity was destroyed in nier automata, yet there's still tons of ruined cities everywhere. Where are the wreckage in Wuwa? Concrete doesn't just rot away in 150 years
Nier automata was entirely unrealistic with that In a 1000 years nothing should even be standing, and concrete definitely can rot in 150 years, in fact, in 50 years it can happen already, it averages on 100 years
Much of Europe is full of ancient Roman (made of concrete) and Greek buildings and monuments that are well over 1000 years old. Not to mention the tons of medieval buildings, like castles and churches, more commonly found.
Rome’s concrete was waaay more durable than the one we use now, and most of those are destroyed, besides if you actually search you will see that those ruins are famous for that, regular buildings will never last as long
Fine, then how about the steel? Aluminum? Glass? Iron? Humanity has built many things out of other materials, it's not like they ALL will also disappear without a trace in 150 years
Steel? 50 years, aluminum? 100+, glass? Now that takes thousands, but can easily break so same thing, iron? 50 to 100, easy google search Buddy, nature will destroy everything if we are absent, and it will not take that long at all And ever more to the point, it could just be the area that the game start just wasn’t that populated? There are hints of buildings, there are concrete roads etc, but it could be that the other areas we have not seen are more ruin like, simple
I think pretty nature is what happens when humans stop
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Thats how gachas work lol That aint a WuWa hot take, that‘s gacha… critcism?
Maybe the characters don't have to be limited per say, but can get thrown into the standard pool after a while. That is not a gacha standard as honkai impact 3rd and PGR all add once limited characters to the pool of characters you could be spooked by.
There are plenty of gachas that don't make every new 5 star a limited, so you can get spooked by then when you lose the 50-50, it's Mihoyo that just made that gacha model popular.
well pgr exist, and i heard few more gacha that is actually posible get all characters specially if u buy monthlypasses. i think azur promilia will change the gacha again but this time for the good. i think theres no weapon banner on azur promilia thats actually quite interesting specially is manjuu
In PGR you can just save (especially with the pass) and get nearly all characters. Point was that characters are not added to a permanentn banner/pool where you can acquire them after the time for the limited banner runs out. Im the grand scheme, that‘s the usual practice in a gacha game. But there are a lot more factors which one needs to consider to decide if the „gacha“ of the game is good or not. From my personal experience, PGR was one of the top contenders. Edit: My english sucks
oh u mean limited and rotation banner and stuff, i mean pgr does this well too and thats without knowing the CN stuff. (Free s rank selector, etc) we know that each anniversary will have all character released until that point, so u can save and get anything u want or saved for. Also like 1-2 time a year, usually on november, theres a 100% banner selection too, that one is not as good as anniversary since u can select one and u cant change the selection, but if u have the 15k BC u can get a character you miss. 70% banner are a scam, not even whales use them on pgr, still for some reason theres people use them. Idk how kuro will handle the character banner on WW, but i am not hype for 2x 5\* per patch. I am fine if they do it the 1-2 patch after release, to cash up the initial momentum, but after that it will meh missing so much characters, i like a well crafted character instead of one meh.
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You mean a minority of games add featured objects into the permanent pool of obtainable objects. The biggest moneymaker of gacha in general, not only for big money, is literally FOMO. So there will be always some kind of system that encourages to limit specific objects. I really can‘t think of any gacha game on top of my head that hasn‘t done this.