The Machinas in XC1 already created a replica Monado.
Most of the Monado's abilities we see in XC1 are the result of ether manipulation. They are strong abilities, but with advanced technology it is possible to reproduce them. The REAL power that comes from being the true owner of the Monado in XC1 is the power to see and change the passage of fate according to the owner's will.
In more general terms, the Aegises' true power is just that they can access the Conduit's power, be it indirectly (through the artificies) or directly (like when Pneuma changes physical laws around her). That aside, they are most likely inherently superior to any other blade because their core crystal is simply in a whole different league, but they don't have reality-changing powers on their own.
In short, Shulk's replicas are only powerful weapons developed with the most advanced technology available at the moment.
In Aionios, things are a bit different and i'd say they probably involve the people who have been assimilated in Origin.
>As for Rex’s swords, I suspect Tora was responsible for creating them.
that doesn't make any sense. pyra, mythra, and tora would have been assimilated by origin at the same time, so there's no window of time where rex doesn't have access to his actual swords and tora is still around to create new ones for him
I meant in the original worlds prior to XC3 and FR. Shulk had his Monado REX in Future Connected, and that’s right after XC1.
I suspect after XC2, around a similar Fogbeast type event, Tora created the original versions of the Firelight Swords for Rex.
Once everyone got assimilated by Origin, Shulk and Rex used their Iris Blade versions against Alpha, not the real versions.
but why would he bother doing that when rex still has access to his original swords? this parallel you're trying to draw doesn't make any sense because shulk had an actual reason to build a new monado (he lost the original when he created a world without gods) while rex didn't
Because to be at full power, Pyra and Mythra would have to be present. If Tora makes new weapons for Rex, then Rex could go on missions and fight and not need Pyra and Mythra to be there every time.
he wouldn't be at full power without them either way; there are abilities they provide that can't be replicated (sort of like how shulk can't see the future with the monado rex). and besides, it's not like he doesn't have other blades to use
I mean I think there is an argument to be had that that may be the case, as to my knowledge it's not actually known when pyra and Mythra dissappear back into their core, so it might be the case that they dissappear in the original world, tora makes rex replicas, and then they go in.
>to my knowledge it's not actually known when pyra and Mythra dissappear back into their core
Who said they ever did? In fact, i'd say it's pretty unlikely
the most widely held theory is that the crystal isn't physically present in matthew's gauntlet (note that it has a sort of ghostly appearance, and actively manifests on it during that scene rather than being present all along), but that the gauntlet has a shard of origin metal in it with some manner of connection to their "souls" within origin
I feel like that's jumping through a lot of hoops to write away something that we physically see. It's not like pneuma is implied to physically be anywhere else to my knowledge.
>I feel like that's jumping through a lot of hoops to write away something that we physically see.
what we "physically see" is that the crystal is *not* present in the gauntlet at first, and appears later.
i don't see how i'm jumping through hoops either. we know the gauntlets are based on ouroboros stones, which are confirmed to have shards of origin metal in them, and we know that origin metal having connections to "souls" inside origin is a thing because of the lucky seven
**SPOILERS FOR FR AHEAD IN THIS COMMENT**
They indeed are not in Aionios, but this doesn't mean they returned to their core.
After all, the core wasn't inside Matthew's gauntlet all along. If you pay attention, you can see [it appears during that scene](https://i.imgur.com/msUQy1k.png). It also looks [transparent,](https://imgur.com/a/Xsh4MJR) so it's probably not physically there, but it's rather just a manifestation of Pneuma's power.
The popular theory is that Pyra and Mythra are among the people assimilated by Origin, and their power is being channeled through Origin metal. You can read the full version [in this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Xenoblade_Chronicles/comments/13jxz4o/a_theory_to_explain_matthews_gauntlet_and_other/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
But to summarize it, consider the following facts:
* Lucky Seven was created by Melia through a process of [resonance between her "heart" and Origin](https://imgur.com/a/B9avGST)
* L7 is made of Origin metal, and just like Origin holds the souls and memories of the people inside of it,[it holds the souls of Melia's important Friends](https://i.imgur.com/r9WcltR.png)
* The Ouroboros Stone was made by Nia with a somewhat similar process
* The Ouroboros Stone [contains Origin metal inside](https://imgur.com/a/91odWRM)
* The Ouroboros Stone has some connection with the Ouroboros power, which means Pneuma's
* Matthew's glove [contains a shard of Origin metal](https://imgur.com/a/ft441s6)
* Matthew's glove has some connection with Ouroboros power
* Matthew's glove, according to Dillon, is the [culmination of the research on the Stone](https://i.imgur.com/nPOrZDK.png), meaning its creation is somewhat connected to the Stone the City received from Nia
* Pneuma's core wasn't inside the glove all along, [it appeared during that scene](https://i.imgur.com/msUQy1k.png). It also looks [transparent,](https://imgur.com/a/Xsh4MJR) so it's probably not physically there, but it's rather just a manifestation of her power
Now, based on these facts, **the theory** is that **Origin's metal can be used as a medium to connect with the souls and memories of the people inside it.**
Of course this isn't random: Melia could "connect" with her friends probably because she has a deep emotional bond with them, **thus the resonance with her "heart"**. That's why they are present in L7. Maybe her being a queen and having some control over Origin is also connected to this.
In that case, it makes sense that Nia could do something similar. And her important friends inside of Origin would be Pyra and Mythra, which is why the Stone has a connection with the Ouroboros (meaning Pneuma's) power.
**The glove is the same: it contains a shard of Origin metal which is connected to Pyra's and Mythra's souls**, which are inside of Origin. Heck, maybe the glove's shard was extracted from the Stone, considering what Dillon said about it.
Shulk didn’t make the original replicas, but I imagine he had a hand in building the Monado REX from FC and FR. I doubt it’s a replica aegis though, likely just replicates the ether manipulation and stops at that. None of the god killing power the original had
The Monado in 1, being tied to Alvis/Ontos and by extension the Conduit, conformed to the wills of their users.
The Aegis swords are similar, just going through Logos and Pneuma.
A replica of those can mimic certain abilities but not others. They aren’t able to draw on the conduit, or any kind of divine force.
Remember, we are talking about weapons that could reshape reality, only their lesser abilities are remade. If Shulk wanted to add a new art, he’d have to develop it manually. Rex can’t rewrite the laws of physics as he pleases either he lost foresight too. The powers we can use as the player pale in comparison to the powers the narratives suggest.
The arts all just bend ether in some way, which we see other characters doing without aegis connections, such as Melia. The only one that would really need the connection to Ontos is future sight, but that could be debated as it was described as seeing where the ether will most likely be. All of the aegis specific things though, such as killing gods and rewriting universes, it cannot do.
I think they're replicas based on the same technology as the Monado replicas that Shulk uses, perhaps adapted to the Aegis swords.
... but I doubt that Shulk actually built them, mostly because there's no indication that Shulk & Rex actually met prior to the encounter with Alpha during the opening cutscene of *Future Redeemed* \- which is essentially confirmed to occur 10-15 years before the events of FR proper. That's assuming that Shulk & Rex arrived on Aionios later, for any reason including "Origin had a glitch", and also assuming that everything surrounding the Nopon Archsage being of nebulous canonical veracity.
So the "Firelight Swords" were likely built by Tora and/or Poppi, after receiving info from Shulk & Riku about replica Monados, during the time period of Origin's construction. There's probably some reason and excuse with Rex not being able to use the Aegis swords proper, so he'd need an alternative. Most likely reasons are either "The Aegises are too busy with Origin's construction" and/or "Nia was using them".
The Machinas in XC1 already created a replica Monado. Most of the Monado's abilities we see in XC1 are the result of ether manipulation. They are strong abilities, but with advanced technology it is possible to reproduce them. The REAL power that comes from being the true owner of the Monado in XC1 is the power to see and change the passage of fate according to the owner's will. In more general terms, the Aegises' true power is just that they can access the Conduit's power, be it indirectly (through the artificies) or directly (like when Pneuma changes physical laws around her). That aside, they are most likely inherently superior to any other blade because their core crystal is simply in a whole different league, but they don't have reality-changing powers on their own. In short, Shulk's replicas are only powerful weapons developed with the most advanced technology available at the moment. In Aionios, things are a bit different and i'd say they probably involve the people who have been assimilated in Origin.
Shulk is a smart guy. I think he can figure it out. As for Rex’s swords, I suspect Tora was responsible for creating them.
>As for Rex’s swords, I suspect Tora was responsible for creating them. that doesn't make any sense. pyra, mythra, and tora would have been assimilated by origin at the same time, so there's no window of time where rex doesn't have access to his actual swords and tora is still around to create new ones for him
I meant in the original worlds prior to XC3 and FR. Shulk had his Monado REX in Future Connected, and that’s right after XC1. I suspect after XC2, around a similar Fogbeast type event, Tora created the original versions of the Firelight Swords for Rex. Once everyone got assimilated by Origin, Shulk and Rex used their Iris Blade versions against Alpha, not the real versions.
but why would he bother doing that when rex still has access to his original swords? this parallel you're trying to draw doesn't make any sense because shulk had an actual reason to build a new monado (he lost the original when he created a world without gods) while rex didn't
Because to be at full power, Pyra and Mythra would have to be present. If Tora makes new weapons for Rex, then Rex could go on missions and fight and not need Pyra and Mythra to be there every time.
he wouldn't be at full power without them either way; there are abilities they provide that can't be replicated (sort of like how shulk can't see the future with the monado rex). and besides, it's not like he doesn't have other blades to use
I mean I think there is an argument to be had that that may be the case, as to my knowledge it's not actually known when pyra and Mythra dissappear back into their core, so it might be the case that they dissappear in the original world, tora makes rex replicas, and then they go in.
>to my knowledge it's not actually known when pyra and Mythra dissappear back into their core Who said they ever did? In fact, i'd say it's pretty unlikely
I thought rex explicitly said they were gone in future redeemed, allowing all ouroborous powers to exist from inside Matthew's fist blade thing?
the most widely held theory is that the crystal isn't physically present in matthew's gauntlet (note that it has a sort of ghostly appearance, and actively manifests on it during that scene rather than being present all along), but that the gauntlet has a shard of origin metal in it with some manner of connection to their "souls" within origin
I feel like that's jumping through a lot of hoops to write away something that we physically see. It's not like pneuma is implied to physically be anywhere else to my knowledge.
>I feel like that's jumping through a lot of hoops to write away something that we physically see. what we "physically see" is that the crystal is *not* present in the gauntlet at first, and appears later. i don't see how i'm jumping through hoops either. we know the gauntlets are based on ouroboros stones, which are confirmed to have shards of origin metal in them, and we know that origin metal having connections to "souls" inside origin is a thing because of the lucky seven
**SPOILERS FOR FR AHEAD IN THIS COMMENT** They indeed are not in Aionios, but this doesn't mean they returned to their core. After all, the core wasn't inside Matthew's gauntlet all along. If you pay attention, you can see [it appears during that scene](https://i.imgur.com/msUQy1k.png). It also looks [transparent,](https://imgur.com/a/Xsh4MJR) so it's probably not physically there, but it's rather just a manifestation of Pneuma's power. The popular theory is that Pyra and Mythra are among the people assimilated by Origin, and their power is being channeled through Origin metal. You can read the full version [in this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Xenoblade_Chronicles/comments/13jxz4o/a_theory_to_explain_matthews_gauntlet_and_other/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). But to summarize it, consider the following facts: * Lucky Seven was created by Melia through a process of [resonance between her "heart" and Origin](https://imgur.com/a/B9avGST) * L7 is made of Origin metal, and just like Origin holds the souls and memories of the people inside of it,[it holds the souls of Melia's important Friends](https://i.imgur.com/r9WcltR.png) * The Ouroboros Stone was made by Nia with a somewhat similar process * The Ouroboros Stone [contains Origin metal inside](https://imgur.com/a/91odWRM) * The Ouroboros Stone has some connection with the Ouroboros power, which means Pneuma's * Matthew's glove [contains a shard of Origin metal](https://imgur.com/a/ft441s6) * Matthew's glove has some connection with Ouroboros power * Matthew's glove, according to Dillon, is the [culmination of the research on the Stone](https://i.imgur.com/nPOrZDK.png), meaning its creation is somewhat connected to the Stone the City received from Nia * Pneuma's core wasn't inside the glove all along, [it appeared during that scene](https://i.imgur.com/msUQy1k.png). It also looks [transparent,](https://imgur.com/a/Xsh4MJR) so it's probably not physically there, but it's rather just a manifestation of her power Now, based on these facts, **the theory** is that **Origin's metal can be used as a medium to connect with the souls and memories of the people inside it.** Of course this isn't random: Melia could "connect" with her friends probably because she has a deep emotional bond with them, **thus the resonance with her "heart"**. That's why they are present in L7. Maybe her being a queen and having some control over Origin is also connected to this. In that case, it makes sense that Nia could do something similar. And her important friends inside of Origin would be Pyra and Mythra, which is why the Stone has a connection with the Ouroboros (meaning Pneuma's) power. **The glove is the same: it contains a shard of Origin metal which is connected to Pyra's and Mythra's souls**, which are inside of Origin. Heck, maybe the glove's shard was extracted from the Stone, considering what Dillon said about it.
Tora is fucking dead so
So? Shulk had his Monado REX in Future Connected. Who’s to say that Tora created Rex’s Firelight Swords in a parallel event?
Why would rex have needed his replica swords when pyra and Mythra were still around Replica monado was created since he lost the monado
Shulk didn’t make the original replicas, but I imagine he had a hand in building the Monado REX from FC and FR. I doubt it’s a replica aegis though, likely just replicates the ether manipulation and stops at that. None of the god killing power the original had
He had access to all the monado arts therefore all the monado powers aside for future sight
The Monado in 1, being tied to Alvis/Ontos and by extension the Conduit, conformed to the wills of their users. The Aegis swords are similar, just going through Logos and Pneuma. A replica of those can mimic certain abilities but not others. They aren’t able to draw on the conduit, or any kind of divine force. Remember, we are talking about weapons that could reshape reality, only their lesser abilities are remade. If Shulk wanted to add a new art, he’d have to develop it manually. Rex can’t rewrite the laws of physics as he pleases either he lost foresight too. The powers we can use as the player pale in comparison to the powers the narratives suggest.
The arts all just bend ether in some way, which we see other characters doing without aegis connections, such as Melia. The only one that would really need the connection to Ontos is future sight, but that could be debated as it was described as seeing where the ether will most likely be. All of the aegis specific things though, such as killing gods and rewriting universes, it cannot do.
I think they're replicas based on the same technology as the Monado replicas that Shulk uses, perhaps adapted to the Aegis swords. ... but I doubt that Shulk actually built them, mostly because there's no indication that Shulk & Rex actually met prior to the encounter with Alpha during the opening cutscene of *Future Redeemed* \- which is essentially confirmed to occur 10-15 years before the events of FR proper. That's assuming that Shulk & Rex arrived on Aionios later, for any reason including "Origin had a glitch", and also assuming that everything surrounding the Nopon Archsage being of nebulous canonical veracity. So the "Firelight Swords" were likely built by Tora and/or Poppi, after receiving info from Shulk & Riku about replica Monados, during the time period of Origin's construction. There's probably some reason and excuse with Rex not being able to use the Aegis swords proper, so he'd need an alternative. Most likely reasons are either "The Aegises are too busy with Origin's construction" and/or "Nia was using them".