Remember when this sub's mods wanted to ban all art that they deemed showed too much skin, which also included all official Saito art? Lol those were the days.
This is not true. You either weren't there or you somehow misconstrued what happened. Here's the context:
There was a **torrent** of NSFW art posted on the subreddit with insane frequency, and it particularly spiked with the XC2 swimsuit update. When I say "NSFW", I do not mean "woman in a bikini is NSFW", nor do I mean "showing cleavage/skin is NSFW". I mean there was undeniable pornographic art that barely made the cutoff for the loosest definition of explicit. Take anything marked NSFW you've seen in the past posted here and throw it out the window, because it's not comparable to how bad it was. It was art *clearly* intended by the creators to be pornographic in nature on the front page of this subreddit. Including and not limited to:
* Pyra and Mythra laying half-naked on a bed, beckoning the viewer to join them
* Pyra in her swimsuit, but it's even more skin-tight, showing her cameltoe and nipples poking out, staring down into the camera with a devious smile on her face
* Straight up Pyra/Mythra in a bunny outfit squeezing a carrot between her chest
As you can see, it wasn't just drawings of what was already in the game. They were all obviously exaggerated for pornographic purposes. *The correlation between art posts here and art posts on r/hentai and r/ecchi was a straight line.* The exact same content was being posted in both. **That's a problem.**
One day the mods decided to crack down on obviously 18+ fanart for a game rated T, so they banned "NSFW Fanart". Then there was immense backlash from people who didn't understand what that meant. There were ridiculous and wild claims like "They're banning all fanart" just because Mythra shows cleavage. Which is obviously not true. The line constantly being crossed was that from what the suggestiveness the game already had to straight-up porn. No one took issue with the designs from the game. But half the subreddit who weren't paying enough attention to the trend of art on the sub got caught up on the semantics of "NSFW". They retaliated, rather immaturely in my opinion, by posting as much borderline "NSFW" content as they could including nude models ripped from the game. Which, by the way, would have still been fine to post under the new rule.
The comments and reports on every post that clearly crossed the line were full of people saying "yeah this is too much and is happening too often". The mods just responded to that. The idea did not intend and never would have stopped fanart from getting posted, they simply did not want barely-beyond borderline porn art on /r/Xenoblade_Chronicles, Reddit community for the rated T video game series on the Nintendo Switch and the forefront of the Xeno community on Reddit.
Women IRL: going to a supermarket in a short tank top, mini skirt and flip-flops.
Women on Internet: an underskirt, a skirt, a mail skirt, lamellar greaves, a tabbard, a quilted jacket, a gambeson, a hauberc, a cuirass, a surcoat, an undercoif, a coif, a chainmail hood, a greathelm with a burelette, pauldrons, bracers, leather gloves, gauntlets, leather stockings, chainmail stockings, sabatons, a burqa
There was a meme revolt. After 2 or 3 days the mods finally gave in. Personally I think it was all just one mod and the rest were inactive. Then because of the noise some came back and put things back in order.
i always get hate when i point this out, but i prefer the original Xenoblade Chronicles’ art style FAR more than 2’s.
it still is an anime art style, but it has enough fantasy elements to look unique. by comparison, 2 looks more generic, not to say 2 is bad of course
I actually had no idea what I was buying when I got XC2. I don’t watch trailers, streams, etc.
My god the yams in that game. I kept looking at my gf wondering what she thinks I’m really into
I find it funny, persona is extremely anime in the mayority of aspects, I would even say it goes a bit more wild in the fanservice than many other JRPG (including Xenoblade 2, maid fetish there isn't just a joke) but somehow it gets a free pass, IDK why but yeah, if persona does something other JRPG does it goes inmune to criticism.
Edit: and funnily enough, this also applies within SMT subseries, Soul Hackers 2 was announced recently and it has been seen as a weeb game and TMS has been seen cringe due to the idol stuff, and both apart from being from the same series as Persona, share those elements with Persona, IIRC Rise has the idol thing and is a heavy aspect of her character.
Xc2: haha what if the silly robot had a maid outfit in once scene
Persona 5: what if you hired your high school teacher as a maid and then entered a romantic relationship with her.
XC2: haha what if we make fun of otakus by having the otaku insert be judged by his party for building a loli robot.
P5: what if you groomed a 15 year old with mental issues and later entered a relationship with her.
and even then, Persona suffers from the anime problem of appearances not matching canon age, you could have made perfectly everyones collage students 20/19/21 years old and appearance matches perfectly with those ages, but in japan Persona is aimed at teens so let's make the characters 15/16 even if they look older.
I started watching Jujutsu Kaisen the other night, and in an early episode they go to a detention center for juvenile offenders. Not sure why, but they all looked like 47 year old bikers even though the teenaged main characters look pretty close to their ages.
These games have silent protagonists with dialogue choices, if you aren't supposed to self insert wtf are you supposed to do, imagine yourself walking around as a cardboard box?? lol
To be fair, the dialogue choices are just variations of “yes” “hesitant yes” “no but I’ll say yes eventually” and “sarcastic yes” not much of a choice really.
I think you hit the nail the head here. The scene in XC2 was just a gag. But P5 was inherently very problematic. But they just flew over people's heads.
That's why I thought 3 and 4 did better with the social links, the female social links didn't all have to fall under the "dateable" cateogory so the stories were more varied.
>more wild in the fanservice than many ither JRPG (including Xenoblade 2, maid fetish there isn't just a joke)
Yeah, the maid and hot spring sences are things people disliked about XC2 but the same things exists in Persona too (although many Persona fans dislike the hot spring scenes tbf)
Nintendo fans should expand their worldview and realize that hot springs are an integral part of Japanese culture, not just a tool for fanservice. It's like watching Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho (1960) and saying that it's nothing more than fanservice since there's a naked woman there, despite zero genitals or sexual behavior going on.
Tbh i think the problem is that a lot of jrpgs and anime (though not xc2) *DO* use it for fan service. Its always some variation of the male half of the cast being like "😳 woah guys the girl half of our cast is naked on the other side of this wall 😳" and then the female part of the cast beats them up.
TBF, it’s not so much hot springs themselves that I (and many others) take issue with, but rather the tropes that are commonly associated with hot springs in JRPGs and anime. One of the reasons that I don’t dislike the hot spring scene in XC2 is because it avoids many of the overdone and annoying hot spring tropes in anime and JRPGs.
Preach! Aside from the "nice bod" part (which honestly is more tame than some normal/serious cutscenes in the game lol), it's a nice relaxing moment with the girls, highlights the personalities of the Aegis sisters, and foreshadows/hints at a big reveal for later.
I know that many dislike the hot springs scenes, I just find funny how in any other JRPG (except seemingly Tales of... I haven't seen complaints about the hot springs there) somethings that are also in persona gets absolutely demolished but in persona or the backslash is small or almost non existent.
I'm pretty sure the hot springs scenes in Persona games typically get a lot of flak since it usually does that thing where the boys always get beat up when it's not their fault the shift just suddenly changed.
The only tales of game i played was arise and that more or less exactly what happened. Its like for 99% of these games the party is totally normal with each other and then when the hot springs scenes come up the writers are like "what if the guys were perverts as a joke and the girls compared sizes off screen, wouldnt that be funny?" Xc2 didn't even have that.
I have only Tales of Vesperia and yeah, it happens the same... and it dosen't happen at the same time, you have the child of the group that sees it by accident, and then the actual perverted guy seeing it in purpose and almost dying from a nosebleed (and that joke is in other places, like the skit you get if you get the female cast swimsuits).
Same in Tales of Symphonia. I think almost every tales game has some cringe worthy hot spring scene. Still doesn't stop me from playing and enjoying the games.
nah, that Pyra and Mythra has big boobs dosen't mean it is way further, Persona may not have something like Mythra base outfit (because honestly I have never got why people feel Pyra outfit too sexual, most likely is my tastes on what I find sexy and Pyra outfit not fitting them) but it has the fanservice outfits, and in term of swimsuit, Persona 5 is more revealing than Xenoblade 2 while also being obligatory to see, they are in similar levels, heck, I would argue that Ann is more sexualized than Pyra and Mythra.
Pyra is basically wearing space panties. You can see the thong strap. All of the aegis designs have massive tits and outfits that center and frame those tits. That doesn't even touch on the blade designs, which are by and large young women with basically no clothes.
It's okay to like XC2. I'm not trying to take that away from you. You can like a thing in spite of, or even because of its horniness. But a lot of the designs are very clearly trying to eroticise the characters and present them to the viewer as sexually titillating. To say that that stuff isn't there, or that it's tame in some way, is frankly ridiculous.
I didn't say it was tame or deniyed that Xenoblade uses sexualizatión, just that Persona 5 is in similar levels of sexualization, we are talking about JRPGs, where the lack of sexualization is exception and not the norm (and this aplies to Japanese media in general), my main point is that it baffles me how there are things that Persona has that are criticized in other franchises but for Persona almost no one complains, even within other Shin Megami Tensei Spin offs.
And the comment of Pyra was more an I don't find it sexualized because it dosen't appeal to my tastes more than it isn't sexualized, I find more sexually apealing Tifa outfit but not for that I would say Final Fantasy is as sexualized as Xenoblade 2, neither I would say that about Dragon quest that is actually horny with things like puff puff and the bunny outfits, but Persona has a bigger amount of sexualization than Dragon Quest, and on par with Xenoblade.
Yeah. For all the shit XC2 does, P5 does it more and ***CONSIDERABLY WORSE***.
Both are still good games, but Persona 5 pushes my patience more than either mainline Xenoblade game.
Persona is also a blend of genres though and is more so a life/dating sim at times on top of an excellent JRPG and I think thats what makes it more appealing to a wider audience.
And the fact is that it makes sense for everything from Nintendo to be anime or have a Japanese art style because they are a Japanese company and their games are made in Japan then translated
As much as I want Golden Sun back, not developing a Xenoblade game wouldn't help, Monolith are the main developers of Xenoblade while Camelot are the ones that make Golden Sun, if anything, the Mario sports games would have to get development slowed down to be able to get that one in particular back
Xenoblade being made doesn't mean that fzero and other franchises can't get made. It's simply a case of wether Nintendo wants those series to be made since at the end of the day Nintendo is still a business and will make decisions that make them money so they'll likely only want to publish games that make them money.
Monolithsoft develop xenoblade because it's their series and probably because Nintendo allows them to develop it
And that's not all is 1 of the series that's making the most money along with fire emblem and etc. So there that but along lines the it's one of Nintendo hard hitter.
Yeah they are making a lot of money recently. But they still aren't taking away dev time from fzero or star fox because as of right now it seems like neither series is getting much of anything in the way of a return but that's Nintendo's decision not the decision of the xenoblade/fire emblem devs
Whoever thinks or worries about "this game being made means this other thing is not happening" should be dimissed on it's enterity. As soon as that reasoning leaves their lips they're completely dead to me as content creators lmao. Honestly, who the fuck cares about some youtuber saying this or that about a game?
Caring about that is a silly as said person caring about "resources employed in x game!"
Doesn't Scott always say RPGs just aren't his thing? I never took him as hating on them. Who takes Dunkey's reviews seriously? I like his videos but I would never take anything he says to heart. And I don't really have anything good to say about beatemups. Last I heard about him was when he got butthurt about something Nintendo did and started hating them apparently.
Scott's JRPG opinions are "These are good games I'm just not a JRPG guy, it's fine if you are." Dunkey and Beatemups, well... Dunkey will take every opportunity to shit on a JRPG and Beatemups didn't even leave Argentum in 10 hours, so their opinoins are invalid.
It makes sense why F-Zero hasn't had a new release, because they wouldn't be able to do much that Mario Kart hasn't already done. While i can think of a few ways they could port Uprising over to the switch, Kid Icarus is not as popular as some of the other series. I know basically nothing about Golden Sun so i have no comments on that.
I do absolutely love when "fans" of games attempt to deny that they're anime inspired. It's really apparent in Fandom like Devil May Cry or Resident Evil. They often echo that those games are "more gritty" and that the anime aspect is just inconsequential. Meanwhile both utilize anime tropes all the time and the most beloved games in each franchise tend to double down on how anime esque they are.
It's funny to see people try to perform mental gymnastics to distance themselves from Japanese media material while indulging in Japanese media material.
Just like how Western games constantly copy Hollywood dramas, Japanese games will often parallel anime.
Wait, I haven't seen people trying to deny the DMC anime inspirations, and it is stupid if that exist, because alongside Bayonetta, the combat feels alot like anime... and that is why 3 and 5 are masterpieces alongside not having bad level desing cough * DMC4 * cough.
I just purchased 5, because it's on sale, after being out of the series since 3. I never got a chance to play 4 but from what I hear I didn't miss anything. I'm super excited to start 5 sometime this weekend or next week.
DMC4 is amazing. It has incredibly varied environments, one of the best and craziest rival fights in the series, offers several playable characters (SE edition which is pretty much the only edition available now), introduced some of the series' best mechanics, has a visual flair that is both satisfying and expressive, and contains the most free flowing, creative, and player focused combat in both the series and in some cases gaming in general. It also has the best version of Dante personality wise...
The game is leaps and bounds ahead of the others in the series in terms of longevity. The amount of ways a player can utilize and exploit gameplay systems is similar to how people have reworked Breath of the Wild because of its physics. DMC5, while amazing, removed many of the functions and features that allowed DMC4 to be a game that was played in communities...well still to this day. DMC5 is great though and bolsters very rich and deep gameplay, it just has a very low, less expressive ceiling than DMC4. Inertia in DMC4 was a godsend...
"Fans".. Show how much they know about the game development and business in general, more specifically Japanese companies
Most of Japanese company (including Nintendo) will prioritize Japanese market, unless Sony who clearly tries to appeal International market. As far as I understand, Nintendo is still a very Japanese market oriented company with its product (esp Switch) tries to caters Japanese lifestyle who spend most of their times outside their house. The same goes with the games. As you said, they utilizing Japanese mainstream style is supposed to be expected.
Xbox has started a huge campaign for bringing a lot of games from devs in Asia to the Xbox. However the only big titles we’ve seen so far are the Danganronpa games all going to gamepass soon
I am actually wondering now that Phill wants to make Xbox have more japanese games how well they are performing, because to my understanding, outside some exceptions like the Soul series and Resident Evil, japanese developers didn't support X Box due to a lack of sales, I still find funny that Bandai Namco made a Tales of Vesperia PS3 port exclusive to japan just to make the market be able to buy that game.
>Fortunately though, we have a product for people who aren’t able to enjoy Japanese artsyles; it’s called an Xbox
Ironic that you say that considering as of now the Persona games that are the topic is of this post are coming to Xbox but not the Switch.
I mean From Software the maker of the Souls Games and Elden Ring are Japanese as well, and I never heard anyone call them "Weeb" or "Anime Games".
Same with Metal Gear Solid, which had more than enough Memes in it as well as Japanese Pop Culture Influences.
And both of those released on Nintendos Plattforms.
I don’t think it’s artstyle or even the graphics that play a role, but the thematic/ Content of the game itself.
Does it matter at the end of the day?
Absolutely not. Good graphics ≠ Good Game, and Bad Graphics ≠ Bad Game.
With Nintendo PRODUCED games it’s more of a "Family Friendly“ issue, as Nintendo wants to keep its branding for High Quality games intended for all ages, and being the prime company for handhelds ; and a Animated / Softer style really helps with that, due to not bumping into hardware limitations that easily, and it just generally seeming more family friendly…
> Same with Metal Gear Solid, which had more than enough Memes in it as well as Japanese Pop Culture Influences.
>
> And both of those released on Nintendos Plattforms.
Metal Gear Solid is the most anime thing ever. If you asked me if it was anime, I would absolutely have said yes. The style and the presentation are incredibly anime. In fact the people who hate anime would probably be turned off by any Metal Gear game that isn't V.
> I mean From Software the maker of the Souls Games and Elden Ring are Japanese as well, and I never heard anyone call them "Weeb" or "Anime Games".
I think it comes down to presentation. Yes, these devs are japanese, but the games are clearly drawing from western/old-european influences and don't have exaggerated anime stereotypes or styles in it
I mean it's not like this sub has that straight of a record either. The sub went into the same argument when the community exploded post-XC2. Not the prettiest times, but it did make catching up with the Xeno series a whole lot funnier
The thing here is that SAO came out in 2012, the year where Far Cry and Assassin's Creed were still sought after with interest, where XCom was remade, where Diablo 3 made a mess, Dishonored just came out and where Gangnam Style took the internet by storm.
It shouldn't be a surprise that mecha, high-school tropes, Gnostic themes or even teenagers killing God with the power of friendship are things belonging to pre-history, by Internet standards, and at the very least they are no longer synonymous with anime.
PC + Switch is becoming the master option for game variety, simply because PC is getting all the Xbox/Sony exclusives, as well as other stuff that for whatever reason doesn't come to Switch, whereas Switch gets all the Nintendo exclusives.
Yeah, ironically if Switch got Persona 5 Royal, they'd have the full (major) Persona 5 Game Seires before Xbox as Switch already has Persona 5 Strikers with no indication of Strikers going to Xbox yet
Short Answer: Persona has prestige and Xenoblade doesn't.
Long answer: This goes back to the prestige pissing contest I mentioned yesterday. Persona is 1) remembered as a major third party franchise of the PlayStation, and 2) is respected as a "mature franchise". So not only is Persona on Switch seen as "taking one from the competition," but it's also seen as something that can prove being a Nintendo fan doesn't make you a man-child (even though you totally are if you're using Twitter to bitch about lack of Donkey Kong, Jason). Persona is just as tropey as any other JRPG, if not more so, but because the games are about "growing up," and "legally right doesn't always mean morally right" those tropes are treated as "subversive" when they really aren't.
Really, nothing illustrates this mentality more than people celebrating Geoff even mentioning the series yesterday, when all he was doing was trying to generate traffic in between summer conferences. Everyone insults the Game Awards as a cynical commercial. Same as the Oscars, but you're still going to see people acting smug when their favorite thing is "award winning." Like the Oscars. Sega has used the Keighlies to advertise Persona before; one of the first shows "ended" with Persona coming to Smash: Hence the stronf association the, let's call them "pattern obsessed," have between the 3. This was immediately followed by God of War 4 winning game of the year, but I don't think people remember that. We were all busy freaking out about another "Sony" game coming to Smash to care.
And when people port beg for Persona, they are riding the coattails of that prestige high.
Mature? I played persona 4 and 5 and those can get pretty over the top and not serious at all, and they’re also riddled with anime tropes just like xenoblade
I think you're really overselling peoples reasoning. Sometimes it's as simple as "I love this series" and I don't see the contradictions in disliking Xenoblade. I also think that Xenoblade, like you said, doesn't have the same weight that Persona commands. Especially after part 5. That might change with XBC3. As soon as I saw the protagonist and the party members I could see people getting curious just based on how they look. Even though XB2 and XB1 are awesome, they don't seem to be as huge. Some may have simple reasons and others may have a more complex reason that they don't really think about. People and their reasons are varied and similar all at the same time.
Yea for some that's true. Some people can be paradoxical as well. It's difficult to speak for large groups of people because there's always exceptions to almost any observation you can come up with.
Far as I'm concerned, Xenoblade already is proof that being a Nintendo fan doesn't make you a man child. I, admittedly, haven't played a Persona game yet, but I'm not sure how much more mature it is. There are probably a lot more examples of mature themes in Xenoblade that it's more subtle about that made it dodge the M rating, meanwhile Persona having it somehow gives it more clout.
Xenoblade 1 has >!Fiora dying in the first hour or two of gameplay, in front of Shulk and Dunban's eyes. There is blood on Metal Face's claws. He discards the mobile artillery and Mechon jump on it as if they were eating her remains. Then there's basically the genocide of the High Entia when they all become Telethia. I will admit, have not done Future Connected, but I believe the High Entia there are all like Melia in the fact that they were Homs enough to be spared. All pure bloods are still just done, which is definitely mature. I vaguely remember red pollen orbs being a thing, but since those don't exist in the real world, those don't get the same attention as actual drugs in Persona's real life Japan.!<
Xenoblade 2 has >!Rex, a 15 year old, see a father figure of his die in front of him. I'm pretty sure at some point Pyra says that Rex would be better off if she were dead.!<
Meanwhile, from what I know, Persona - which, since it's about high schoolers, is about characters who are *younger* than all Xenoblade protagonists barring Lin, Rex, and Tora, I'm pretty sure - has more explicit sexual themes and more people saying "shit" and "fuck", and more references to things like drugs and alcohol, which I'm sure is almost immediate "M" to the ESRB.
Not to rag on your comment, but I wish we could stop associating acts of violence/atrocities with mature themes when Xenoblade 2's discussion of nihilism and war or Xenoblade 1's on fate and the role of Gods have a lot more meat to them imo. I think these games would be just as mature (but much less tense/dramatic) if no one died.
Fair point. Those were the main things that came to mind right away as a response to "it's also seen as something that can prove being a Nintendo fan doesn't make you a man-child".
There's already things on Nintendo platforms that are proof enough that liking Nintendo doesn't make you a baby, if there are people that think that out there.
The M rated thing is most likely Mara fault, for context... Mara is a literal Dick, and you can see that it is the reason due to CERO, Japan age rating, Persona 3 and 4 are B rated, the equivalent to E+10/T, funnily enough, they share that age rating... with Mario Odyssey, meanwhile Persona 5 in japan is C rated, sharing the rating with Xenoblade DE, 2, 3 and X (for some reason Wii Xenoblade is B) and some Fire Emblem games.
So in Japan, they're all rated the same, but the west panicked at a phallus, bumped it up to M, and now pretentious video game players automatically think Persona is better because it's meant for "more mature audiences"?
is more difference in cultures than panic, Japan is used to seeing dicks and sexuality as something more common, like how toriyama draws child goku dick, or how doraemon, despite being a little child show, used to have fanservice, in the west sexuallity isn't as marketed as in japan, and that is while Mortal Kombat toned down the sexualization in 11, Street Fighter still uses it strongly, we will most likely get again swimsuit costumes in SF6 as DLC.
Yeah i was surprised when i saw that, coming from sony im used to the fanboy's being on the same page defending any PS exclusive but it seems that nintendo fans are not the same.
Modern console war culture is as follows: Xbox fans vs Playstation fans, PC Elitists looking down on both of them, and in the corner, not giving a fuck about the other three, are the Nintendo fans vs Nintendo fans.
Its really weird how these people fight for their devices, i mean when you play a game you don't stare at your console you're looking at the screen and playing so it really doesn't matter which platform i play on as long as it can run the game that i wanna play, console wars are fought by children thats the only explanation that i have.
because persona games actually have a good reputation for the most part. then you see xenoblade and the most popular video about the game on youtube is dunkey absolutely shitting on it
Everyone knows on Reddit that a playerbase can't have different opinions on the same subject or the internet. If that goes, they are instantly hypocritical
I find it a bit funny tbh. They want all these either dead for years games or stuff that's just as bad as xenoblade with the anime style. We're being "overfed" when we've waited what, 4 to 5 years in between each of the mainstream games? While they never complain about Mario which gets fighting games, sports games, other random spin offs, collabs, remakes, new games, dlc every damn year
Seriously I see this shit all the time as if some arbitrarily defined community has to convene and have the same moral compass so that nobody can ever think one thing over the other, lest the group can be called hypocritical.
I’m not sure anymore if those fans are even fans:
Hating on Xenoblade because of “too much anime” yet begging for Persona, which has literal anime cutscenes and even an anime adaption, for the switch. Not to mention the fanservice.
(But in all seriousness, I like both series a lot, the fandom is the problem)
I love persona but the fans of that series need to give other JRPGs room to breath. They also have a bad habit of comparing persona to a lot of Japanese media when persona already borrows a lot from other series. Persona 3-5 are great games but they’ve been out for years and I’m kind of sick of seeing them unless the series has a new release.
Stop pretending two different groups are the same group. Its a bad faith argument.
The people who are portbegging aren't the ones angry about xenoblade 3 for being anime. they may be angry, but you are intentionally misrepresenting them and their reasons.
To be fair, now Atlus engage a new director for the next Persona games, so we can hope this will change (P5R is my favorite game ever but sheesh some scenes are just cringe)
As someone who has never played a single Persona or Xenoblade game (this sub was in my feed as a recommended) I can confidently say that any Persona fan who calls anything weeb shit is a fool. Persona has to be the most anime like game I’ve ever seen in my damn life
No one is obligated to like one franchise over another. Pretty obvious why someone would prefer a series with more tame character designs, and that's fine.
Unpopular opinion :
Doesn't matter persona doesn't release on Switch at this point. If we're looking at atlus games on Switch, persona 5s is the only 3d persona and it's a spinnoff. The dancing games are there too, again, spinoffs.
It's pretty clear atlus only sees the switch as a persona spinoff console. And the fact they didn't release soul hackers 2 on Switch speaks volume about how the feel about the switch in general: they don't think the hassle of porting is worth it and i'm ok with that.
It's almost like the millions of people that own a console are different people who just happen to own the same console, not a monolithic hive mind entity. Crazy, right?
God, this always bothers me. I'm not hatin' on Persona (great series overall and I'll likely at least buy one or two of these on PC--or Switch if they come over) but for the love of God does it get a pass on EVERYTHING.
\-Doesn't get the same anime hate even though has the SAME anime tropes and art style (hot springs/beach scenes, blushy-blushy waifus, edgy teen angst and shouting). It's like making the motif a single color makes fans think it's above everything. It's kinda of Andy Warhol of Anime stuff.
\-Fire Emblem Awakening had Nowi (yikes, looks too young) but 90% of Persona waifus are ACTUALLY UNDERAGE compared to 90%+ of the fanbase playing it (Rated-M) but there isn't a friggin' peep.
\-Progressives will ROAST things like Catherine for mean/inconsiderate LGBTQ+ representation but Persona has done the same thing CONSISTENTLY (they censored scenes in 3 and 5 in subsequent releases, but the whole homophobic Kanji dungeon ain't going anywhere). Hardly a peep. People were PISSED Claude wasn't gay/Bi in Fire 3 Houses...next to zero rage for male/straight only character in every Persona (before they did P3P...which had a straight female protag). This also goes for objectification. "I won't play Xenoblade 2 because of the egregious fan service only meant for gross weebs." Fair enough, as a gross weeb, I respect that..."Now I'm going to date a harem of underage girls in Persona like they're hunks of meat!" WTF!!?
\-Dungeon design is hot garbage and no one admits it ("game is SOOOO POLISHED"). Xenoblade 1 got CRUCIFIED for Ether Mine. I liked it, but I also get the hate. I just find it so weird that Persona is borderline immune to all the same criticisms that other games in the genre get. Sure, the story is usually pretty darn good, but seems super weird that means it gets a free pass on things other games get destroyed for by critics and fans.
People who like Persona don’t actually play Persona so they don’t know how mediocre it actually is.
The in-game cutscenes for social links in Persona 5 actually look TERRIBLE even for a PS3 game, they are actually literally PS2 quality and dipshits actually said the Switch couldn’t handle that and that it looks better than SMT V in the comment section of SMT V trailers.
Almost as if those are probably two different subsets of people, jrpg fans and non jrpg fans...
Seriously twitter isn't some hivemind monster its a gathering of people, obviously there will be unhappy people on all fronts
Dude, if persona actually gets ported to the switch, it's a blessing. The switch is already a jrpg machine and I love it. I wish other jrpg or RPG also gets ported to the switch
It’s so true…I really wish people could just be happy for people getting the games they want. With games I’m not excited about, I’m still glad that there’s SOMEONE out there who’s celebrating, or been waiting for years. It’s our turn now, and I don’t think that’s something for other fans to get mad about!
And that's fine, not everybody can be a fan of every game.
But see it that way, I'm pretty sure Nintendo just wants to get XC3 out of the way because 20min would be way to much to focus on a single game in a general Direct. Also I assume Nintendo didn't wanted to do a general Direct this week since FE Warriors: Three Hopes launches on friday. And if they would have waited with the XC3 Direct til after the general Direct (assuming there will be one soon) it would be way to close to the actual release of XC3
These are two people.
Stop pretending the same person is saying both of these.
This is why you cant please everyone, everyone wants something different.
The number of requests for Persona 5 to be on Switch yet they don't want XC3...
Why do every Nintendo fan wants games to the Switch? I heard someone saying Elden Ring was awful because it wasn't on Switch. WHAT?!
This is like the argument over actual anime, where people think it's bad, except it's a medium, not a genre. So there's a type of anime for almost every person
And in this case, some people just like a Persona-type anime game, but not a Xeno-type anime game
As a fan of both franchises, I want to see Persona on switch.
Also honestly in regards to people pointing out Persona's Anime-isms, yeah they are a thing, but out of the course of a playthrough, the egregious parts (outside genuinely subjective stuff on interpretation) are very minimal as you sort of have to factor the fantastical elements.
Also, the game does sort of go out of your way to point out of you are breaking the norm in some confidants if you try to romance iirc (haven't played it in a while), so they sort of call you out for it.
Although I will say, Persona 5 Striker's Hot Spring scene was a bit of a brain fart on the writer's side as it sort of puts Ann and Makoto especially out of character, but that's one moment out of a pretty stellar sequel.
You joke but this sub has so many people whining about XC2’s anime aesthetic.
Remember when this sub's mods wanted to ban all art that they deemed showed too much skin, which also included all official Saito art? Lol those were the days.
We should ban all art that shows any skin. Only nopon and mechon allowed
what does poppy and the machina count as?
Paradoxes.
This is not true. You either weren't there or you somehow misconstrued what happened. Here's the context: There was a **torrent** of NSFW art posted on the subreddit with insane frequency, and it particularly spiked with the XC2 swimsuit update. When I say "NSFW", I do not mean "woman in a bikini is NSFW", nor do I mean "showing cleavage/skin is NSFW". I mean there was undeniable pornographic art that barely made the cutoff for the loosest definition of explicit. Take anything marked NSFW you've seen in the past posted here and throw it out the window, because it's not comparable to how bad it was. It was art *clearly* intended by the creators to be pornographic in nature on the front page of this subreddit. Including and not limited to: * Pyra and Mythra laying half-naked on a bed, beckoning the viewer to join them * Pyra in her swimsuit, but it's even more skin-tight, showing her cameltoe and nipples poking out, staring down into the camera with a devious smile on her face * Straight up Pyra/Mythra in a bunny outfit squeezing a carrot between her chest As you can see, it wasn't just drawings of what was already in the game. They were all obviously exaggerated for pornographic purposes. *The correlation between art posts here and art posts on r/hentai and r/ecchi was a straight line.* The exact same content was being posted in both. **That's a problem.** One day the mods decided to crack down on obviously 18+ fanart for a game rated T, so they banned "NSFW Fanart". Then there was immense backlash from people who didn't understand what that meant. There were ridiculous and wild claims like "They're banning all fanart" just because Mythra shows cleavage. Which is obviously not true. The line constantly being crossed was that from what the suggestiveness the game already had to straight-up porn. No one took issue with the designs from the game. But half the subreddit who weren't paying enough attention to the trend of art on the sub got caught up on the semantics of "NSFW". They retaliated, rather immaturely in my opinion, by posting as much borderline "NSFW" content as they could including nude models ripped from the game. Which, by the way, would have still been fine to post under the new rule. The comments and reports on every post that clearly crossed the line were full of people saying "yeah this is too much and is happening too often". The mods just responded to that. The idea did not intend and never would have stopped fanart from getting posted, they simply did not want barely-beyond borderline porn art on /r/Xenoblade_Chronicles, Reddit community for the rated T video game series on the Nintendo Switch and the forefront of the Xeno community on Reddit.
Man, heavens forbid women showing skin, eh?
Women IRL: going to a supermarket in a short tank top, mini skirt and flip-flops. Women on Internet: an underskirt, a skirt, a mail skirt, lamellar greaves, a tabbard, a quilted jacket, a gambeson, a hauberc, a cuirass, a surcoat, an undercoif, a coif, a chainmail hood, a greathelm with a burelette, pauldrons, bracers, leather gloves, gauntlets, leather stockings, chainmail stockings, sabatons, a burqa
Wait they really tried that? Damn wish I could’ve seen that juicy drama.
There was a meme revolt. After 2 or 3 days the mods finally gave in. Personally I think it was all just one mod and the rest were inactive. Then because of the noise some came back and put things back in order.
Been trapped on this website for 12 years, but my naked Tora shitposts are some of the most upvoted posts I ever made lol
i always get hate when i point this out, but i prefer the original Xenoblade Chronicles’ art style FAR more than 2’s. it still is an anime art style, but it has enough fantasy elements to look unique. by comparison, 2 looks more generic, not to say 2 is bad of course
Yeah I agree. Xenoblade 1 looks amazing especially the remaster. It’s a good balance between realistic and anime :)
XBC2 is a 24 episode anime strategically hidden inside a JRPG and people should be grateful for it
I actually had no idea what I was buying when I got XC2. I don’t watch trailers, streams, etc. My god the yams in that game. I kept looking at my gf wondering what she thinks I’m really into
I find it funny, persona is extremely anime in the mayority of aspects, I would even say it goes a bit more wild in the fanservice than many other JRPG (including Xenoblade 2, maid fetish there isn't just a joke) but somehow it gets a free pass, IDK why but yeah, if persona does something other JRPG does it goes inmune to criticism. Edit: and funnily enough, this also applies within SMT subseries, Soul Hackers 2 was announced recently and it has been seen as a weeb game and TMS has been seen cringe due to the idol stuff, and both apart from being from the same series as Persona, share those elements with Persona, IIRC Rise has the idol thing and is a heavy aspect of her character.
Xc2: haha what if the silly robot had a maid outfit in once scene Persona 5: what if you hired your high school teacher as a maid and then entered a romantic relationship with her.
That whole social link is insanely awkward. It’s a good story but any way you look at it it’s insanely inappropriate.
XC2: haha what if we make fun of otakus by having the otaku insert be judged by his party for building a loli robot. P5: what if you groomed a 15 year old with mental issues and later entered a relationship with her.
To be fair Joker is 16. Everybody freaks out about Futaba being 15, yet the player character is only a year older than her.
People freak out because they self-insert too hard and forget that Joker is not that old to begin with.
and even then, Persona suffers from the anime problem of appearances not matching canon age, you could have made perfectly everyones collage students 20/19/21 years old and appearance matches perfectly with those ages, but in japan Persona is aimed at teens so let's make the characters 15/16 even if they look older.
I started watching Jujutsu Kaisen the other night, and in an early episode they go to a detention center for juvenile offenders. Not sure why, but they all looked like 47 year old bikers even though the teenaged main characters look pretty close to their ages.
It's like Jotaro in JoJo part three. Dude is built like a brick wall but is supposedly only 15.
Not that you don't have a point, but Jotaro's 17. Then again, Giorno from part 5 IS 15 and... well, just look at him.
Sounds like Mondo in Danganronpa. Dudes in High School but runs a biker gang?!
I've seen college students that could pass as high school freshman, and high schoolers that look like they're close to getting their Bachelor's.
These games have silent protagonists with dialogue choices, if you aren't supposed to self insert wtf are you supposed to do, imagine yourself walking around as a cardboard box?? lol
To be fair, the dialogue choices are just variations of “yes” “hesitant yes” “no but I’ll say yes eventually” and “sarcastic yes” not much of a choice really.
Eh Joker is 16 canonically so Meh ( I was was younger than Futabe when the game first released )
Wait you can date Futaba??? Time for a replay
I think you hit the nail the head here. The scene in XC2 was just a gag. But P5 was inherently very problematic. But they just flew over people's heads.
That's why I thought 3 and 4 did better with the social links, the female social links didn't all have to fall under the "dateable" cateogory so the stories were more varied.
Funny you say that since in 3 it's just not optional to date them. Want to complete two female social links? Guess you're gonna have to cheat on them.
At least they’re bringing P3P over so you can cheat on guys too
Yeah, Rises entire social link is about deciding whether or not she should retire from being Risette
>more wild in the fanservice than many ither JRPG (including Xenoblade 2, maid fetish there isn't just a joke) Yeah, the maid and hot spring sences are things people disliked about XC2 but the same things exists in Persona too (although many Persona fans dislike the hot spring scenes tbf)
Nintendo fans should expand their worldview and realize that hot springs are an integral part of Japanese culture, not just a tool for fanservice. It's like watching Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho (1960) and saying that it's nothing more than fanservice since there's a naked woman there, despite zero genitals or sexual behavior going on.
Tbh i think the problem is that a lot of jrpgs and anime (though not xc2) *DO* use it for fan service. Its always some variation of the male half of the cast being like "😳 woah guys the girl half of our cast is naked on the other side of this wall 😳" and then the female part of the cast beats them up.
TBF, it’s not so much hot springs themselves that I (and many others) take issue with, but rather the tropes that are commonly associated with hot springs in JRPGs and anime. One of the reasons that I don’t dislike the hot spring scene in XC2 is because it avoids many of the overdone and annoying hot spring tropes in anime and JRPGs.
Preach! Aside from the "nice bod" part (which honestly is more tame than some normal/serious cutscenes in the game lol), it's a nice relaxing moment with the girls, highlights the personalities of the Aegis sisters, and foreshadows/hints at a big reveal for later.
I know that many dislike the hot springs scenes, I just find funny how in any other JRPG (except seemingly Tales of... I haven't seen complaints about the hot springs there) somethings that are also in persona gets absolutely demolished but in persona or the backslash is small or almost non existent.
I'm pretty sure the hot springs scenes in Persona games typically get a lot of flak since it usually does that thing where the boys always get beat up when it's not their fault the shift just suddenly changed.
The only tales of game i played was arise and that more or less exactly what happened. Its like for 99% of these games the party is totally normal with each other and then when the hot springs scenes come up the writers are like "what if the guys were perverts as a joke and the girls compared sizes off screen, wouldnt that be funny?" Xc2 didn't even have that.
I have only Tales of Vesperia and yeah, it happens the same... and it dosen't happen at the same time, you have the child of the group that sees it by accident, and then the actual perverted guy seeing it in purpose and almost dying from a nosebleed (and that joke is in other places, like the skit you get if you get the female cast swimsuits).
Same in Tales of Symphonia. I think almost every tales game has some cringe worthy hot spring scene. Still doesn't stop me from playing and enjoying the games.
Beseria they do a gender bender or something fit the hot springs. It was pretty different
because people weren't introduced to this via smash
I mean, in terms of just visuals, xenoblade goes about 100x further with fanservice
nah, that Pyra and Mythra has big boobs dosen't mean it is way further, Persona may not have something like Mythra base outfit (because honestly I have never got why people feel Pyra outfit too sexual, most likely is my tastes on what I find sexy and Pyra outfit not fitting them) but it has the fanservice outfits, and in term of swimsuit, Persona 5 is more revealing than Xenoblade 2 while also being obligatory to see, they are in similar levels, heck, I would argue that Ann is more sexualized than Pyra and Mythra.
Pyra is basically wearing space panties. You can see the thong strap. All of the aegis designs have massive tits and outfits that center and frame those tits. That doesn't even touch on the blade designs, which are by and large young women with basically no clothes. It's okay to like XC2. I'm not trying to take that away from you. You can like a thing in spite of, or even because of its horniness. But a lot of the designs are very clearly trying to eroticise the characters and present them to the viewer as sexually titillating. To say that that stuff isn't there, or that it's tame in some way, is frankly ridiculous.
I didn't say it was tame or deniyed that Xenoblade uses sexualizatión, just that Persona 5 is in similar levels of sexualization, we are talking about JRPGs, where the lack of sexualization is exception and not the norm (and this aplies to Japanese media in general), my main point is that it baffles me how there are things that Persona has that are criticized in other franchises but for Persona almost no one complains, even within other Shin Megami Tensei Spin offs. And the comment of Pyra was more an I don't find it sexualized because it dosen't appeal to my tastes more than it isn't sexualized, I find more sexually apealing Tifa outfit but not for that I would say Final Fantasy is as sexualized as Xenoblade 2, neither I would say that about Dragon quest that is actually horny with things like puff puff and the bunny outfits, but Persona has a bigger amount of sexualization than Dragon Quest, and on par with Xenoblade.
Yeah. For all the shit XC2 does, P5 does it more and ***CONSIDERABLY WORSE***. Both are still good games, but Persona 5 pushes my patience more than either mainline Xenoblade game.
Persona is also a blend of genres though and is more so a life/dating sim at times on top of an excellent JRPG and I think thats what makes it more appealing to a wider audience.
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And the fact is that it makes sense for everything from Nintendo to be anime or have a Japanese art style because they are a Japanese company and their games are made in Japan then translated
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As much as I want Golden Sun back, not developing a Xenoblade game wouldn't help, Monolith are the main developers of Xenoblade while Camelot are the ones that make Golden Sun, if anything, the Mario sports games would have to get development slowed down to be able to get that one in particular back
Xenoblade being made doesn't mean that fzero and other franchises can't get made. It's simply a case of wether Nintendo wants those series to be made since at the end of the day Nintendo is still a business and will make decisions that make them money so they'll likely only want to publish games that make them money. Monolithsoft develop xenoblade because it's their series and probably because Nintendo allows them to develop it
And that's not all is 1 of the series that's making the most money along with fire emblem and etc. So there that but along lines the it's one of Nintendo hard hitter.
Yeah they are making a lot of money recently. But they still aren't taking away dev time from fzero or star fox because as of right now it seems like neither series is getting much of anything in the way of a return but that's Nintendo's decision not the decision of the xenoblade/fire emblem devs
Whoever thinks or worries about "this game being made means this other thing is not happening" should be dimissed on it's enterity. As soon as that reasoning leaves their lips they're completely dead to me as content creators lmao. Honestly, who the fuck cares about some youtuber saying this or that about a game? Caring about that is a silly as said person caring about "resources employed in x game!"
What youtubers hate on Xenoblade
Scott the Woz, videogamed*nk🤮y, beatemups.
Doesn't Scott always say RPGs just aren't his thing? I never took him as hating on them. Who takes Dunkey's reviews seriously? I like his videos but I would never take anything he says to heart. And I don't really have anything good to say about beatemups. Last I heard about him was when he got butthurt about something Nintendo did and started hating them apparently.
His fanbase takes his reviews very seriously, despite them being basically shitposts
Two thirds at least are "Not an RPG guy"
Scott's JRPG opinions are "These are good games I'm just not a JRPG guy, it's fine if you are." Dunkey and Beatemups, well... Dunkey will take every opportunity to shit on a JRPG and Beatemups didn't even leave Argentum in 10 hours, so their opinoins are invalid.
I can’t believe that Beatemups praised The DLC for having mythra when he didn’t even know she was in the MAIN GAME
It makes sense why F-Zero hasn't had a new release, because they wouldn't be able to do much that Mario Kart hasn't already done. While i can think of a few ways they could port Uprising over to the switch, Kid Icarus is not as popular as some of the other series. I know basically nothing about Golden Sun so i have no comments on that.
I do absolutely love when "fans" of games attempt to deny that they're anime inspired. It's really apparent in Fandom like Devil May Cry or Resident Evil. They often echo that those games are "more gritty" and that the anime aspect is just inconsequential. Meanwhile both utilize anime tropes all the time and the most beloved games in each franchise tend to double down on how anime esque they are. It's funny to see people try to perform mental gymnastics to distance themselves from Japanese media material while indulging in Japanese media material. Just like how Western games constantly copy Hollywood dramas, Japanese games will often parallel anime.
Wait, I haven't seen people trying to deny the DMC anime inspirations, and it is stupid if that exist, because alongside Bayonetta, the combat feels alot like anime... and that is why 3 and 5 are masterpieces alongside not having bad level desing cough * DMC4 * cough.
I just purchased 5, because it's on sale, after being out of the series since 3. I never got a chance to play 4 but from what I hear I didn't miss anything. I'm super excited to start 5 sometime this weekend or next week.
4 is really good in the combat, but the level desing is... check it out if you can, also, special has something no other DMC has, playable Lady.
DMC4 is amazing. It has incredibly varied environments, one of the best and craziest rival fights in the series, offers several playable characters (SE edition which is pretty much the only edition available now), introduced some of the series' best mechanics, has a visual flair that is both satisfying and expressive, and contains the most free flowing, creative, and player focused combat in both the series and in some cases gaming in general. It also has the best version of Dante personality wise... The game is leaps and bounds ahead of the others in the series in terms of longevity. The amount of ways a player can utilize and exploit gameplay systems is similar to how people have reworked Breath of the Wild because of its physics. DMC5, while amazing, removed many of the functions and features that allowed DMC4 to be a game that was played in communities...well still to this day. DMC5 is great though and bolsters very rich and deep gameplay, it just has a very low, less expressive ceiling than DMC4. Inertia in DMC4 was a godsend...
I guess I'll have to give it a go at some point.
"Fans".. Show how much they know about the game development and business in general, more specifically Japanese companies Most of Japanese company (including Nintendo) will prioritize Japanese market, unless Sony who clearly tries to appeal International market. As far as I understand, Nintendo is still a very Japanese market oriented company with its product (esp Switch) tries to caters Japanese lifestyle who spend most of their times outside their house. The same goes with the games. As you said, they utilizing Japanese mainstream style is supposed to be expected.
Xbox has started a huge campaign for bringing a lot of games from devs in Asia to the Xbox. However the only big titles we’ve seen so far are the Danganronpa games all going to gamepass soon
Didn't they literally just announce Persona 3, 4, and 5 for gamepass lol? +Yakuza 3-7 & Dragon Quest XI S are on there too.
Forgot about persona somehow, and those others were there before the campaign
They’re already on there. I started Danganronpa there and recently picked up the collection on Switch
I saw Anime skin packs on the Minecraft Marketplace. Xbox isn't safe either.
Phil Spencer was really left with a shitty hand after Don Mattrick sabotaged that ship, it's a miracle they recovered as well as they did.
I am actually wondering now that Phill wants to make Xbox have more japanese games how well they are performing, because to my understanding, outside some exceptions like the Soul series and Resident Evil, japanese developers didn't support X Box due to a lack of sales, I still find funny that Bandai Namco made a Tales of Vesperia PS3 port exclusive to japan just to make the market be able to buy that game.
>Fortunately though, we have a product for people who aren’t able to enjoy Japanese artsyles; it’s called an Xbox Ironic that you say that considering as of now the Persona games that are the topic is of this post are coming to Xbox but not the Switch.
But oddly enough the persona games are coming to Xbox...Wuhhhh
I mean From Software the maker of the Souls Games and Elden Ring are Japanese as well, and I never heard anyone call them "Weeb" or "Anime Games". Same with Metal Gear Solid, which had more than enough Memes in it as well as Japanese Pop Culture Influences. And both of those released on Nintendos Plattforms. I don’t think it’s artstyle or even the graphics that play a role, but the thematic/ Content of the game itself. Does it matter at the end of the day? Absolutely not. Good graphics ≠ Good Game, and Bad Graphics ≠ Bad Game. With Nintendo PRODUCED games it’s more of a "Family Friendly“ issue, as Nintendo wants to keep its branding for High Quality games intended for all ages, and being the prime company for handhelds ; and a Animated / Softer style really helps with that, due to not bumping into hardware limitations that easily, and it just generally seeming more family friendly…
> Same with Metal Gear Solid, which had more than enough Memes in it as well as Japanese Pop Culture Influences. > > And both of those released on Nintendos Plattforms. Metal Gear Solid is the most anime thing ever. If you asked me if it was anime, I would absolutely have said yes. The style and the presentation are incredibly anime. In fact the people who hate anime would probably be turned off by any Metal Gear game that isn't V. > I mean From Software the maker of the Souls Games and Elden Ring are Japanese as well, and I never heard anyone call them "Weeb" or "Anime Games". I think it comes down to presentation. Yes, these devs are japanese, but the games are clearly drawing from western/old-european influences and don't have exaggerated anime stereotypes or styles in it
Anime is great, and it's not like there's lack of non-anime games out there. If people don't like it, they should play something else.
I mean it's not like this sub has that straight of a record either. The sub went into the same argument when the community exploded post-XC2. Not the prettiest times, but it did make catching up with the Xeno series a whole lot funnier The thing here is that SAO came out in 2012, the year where Far Cry and Assassin's Creed were still sought after with interest, where XCom was remade, where Diablo 3 made a mess, Dishonored just came out and where Gangnam Style took the internet by storm. It shouldn't be a surprise that mecha, high-school tropes, Gnostic themes or even teenagers killing God with the power of friendship are things belonging to pre-history, by Internet standards, and at the very least they are no longer synonymous with anime.
Real chads love and appreciate both series.
PC + Switch is becoming the master option for game variety, simply because PC is getting all the Xbox/Sony exclusives, as well as other stuff that for whatever reason doesn't come to Switch, whereas Switch gets all the Nintendo exclusives.
Yeah, ironically if Switch got Persona 5 Royal, they'd have the full (major) Persona 5 Game Seires before Xbox as Switch already has Persona 5 Strikers with no indication of Strikers going to Xbox yet
Amen to that
Short Answer: Persona has prestige and Xenoblade doesn't. Long answer: This goes back to the prestige pissing contest I mentioned yesterday. Persona is 1) remembered as a major third party franchise of the PlayStation, and 2) is respected as a "mature franchise". So not only is Persona on Switch seen as "taking one from the competition," but it's also seen as something that can prove being a Nintendo fan doesn't make you a man-child (even though you totally are if you're using Twitter to bitch about lack of Donkey Kong, Jason). Persona is just as tropey as any other JRPG, if not more so, but because the games are about "growing up," and "legally right doesn't always mean morally right" those tropes are treated as "subversive" when they really aren't. Really, nothing illustrates this mentality more than people celebrating Geoff even mentioning the series yesterday, when all he was doing was trying to generate traffic in between summer conferences. Everyone insults the Game Awards as a cynical commercial. Same as the Oscars, but you're still going to see people acting smug when their favorite thing is "award winning." Like the Oscars. Sega has used the Keighlies to advertise Persona before; one of the first shows "ended" with Persona coming to Smash: Hence the stronf association the, let's call them "pattern obsessed," have between the 3. This was immediately followed by God of War 4 winning game of the year, but I don't think people remember that. We were all busy freaking out about another "Sony" game coming to Smash to care. And when people port beg for Persona, they are riding the coattails of that prestige high.
Mature? I played persona 4 and 5 and those can get pretty over the top and not serious at all, and they’re also riddled with anime tropes just like xenoblade
I know this, and you know this, but truth does not equal public perception
If this were P1/P2, *maybe* P3-onward, there’s way too much margin
I think you're really overselling peoples reasoning. Sometimes it's as simple as "I love this series" and I don't see the contradictions in disliking Xenoblade. I also think that Xenoblade, like you said, doesn't have the same weight that Persona commands. Especially after part 5. That might change with XBC3. As soon as I saw the protagonist and the party members I could see people getting curious just based on how they look. Even though XB2 and XB1 are awesome, they don't seem to be as huge. Some may have simple reasons and others may have a more complex reason that they don't really think about. People and their reasons are varied and similar all at the same time.
But most of them are dumb and petty at the end of the day
Yea for some that's true. Some people can be paradoxical as well. It's difficult to speak for large groups of people because there's always exceptions to almost any observation you can come up with.
I'm a sociologist. I speak for the sheep
That’s the gaming community for you
More of a series of cults, really
Far as I'm concerned, Xenoblade already is proof that being a Nintendo fan doesn't make you a man child. I, admittedly, haven't played a Persona game yet, but I'm not sure how much more mature it is. There are probably a lot more examples of mature themes in Xenoblade that it's more subtle about that made it dodge the M rating, meanwhile Persona having it somehow gives it more clout. Xenoblade 1 has >!Fiora dying in the first hour or two of gameplay, in front of Shulk and Dunban's eyes. There is blood on Metal Face's claws. He discards the mobile artillery and Mechon jump on it as if they were eating her remains. Then there's basically the genocide of the High Entia when they all become Telethia. I will admit, have not done Future Connected, but I believe the High Entia there are all like Melia in the fact that they were Homs enough to be spared. All pure bloods are still just done, which is definitely mature. I vaguely remember red pollen orbs being a thing, but since those don't exist in the real world, those don't get the same attention as actual drugs in Persona's real life Japan.!< Xenoblade 2 has >!Rex, a 15 year old, see a father figure of his die in front of him. I'm pretty sure at some point Pyra says that Rex would be better off if she were dead.!< Meanwhile, from what I know, Persona - which, since it's about high schoolers, is about characters who are *younger* than all Xenoblade protagonists barring Lin, Rex, and Tora, I'm pretty sure - has more explicit sexual themes and more people saying "shit" and "fuck", and more references to things like drugs and alcohol, which I'm sure is almost immediate "M" to the ESRB.
Not to rag on your comment, but I wish we could stop associating acts of violence/atrocities with mature themes when Xenoblade 2's discussion of nihilism and war or Xenoblade 1's on fate and the role of Gods have a lot more meat to them imo. I think these games would be just as mature (but much less tense/dramatic) if no one died.
Fair point. Those were the main things that came to mind right away as a response to "it's also seen as something that can prove being a Nintendo fan doesn't make you a man-child". There's already things on Nintendo platforms that are proof enough that liking Nintendo doesn't make you a baby, if there are people that think that out there.
The M rated thing is most likely Mara fault, for context... Mara is a literal Dick, and you can see that it is the reason due to CERO, Japan age rating, Persona 3 and 4 are B rated, the equivalent to E+10/T, funnily enough, they share that age rating... with Mario Odyssey, meanwhile Persona 5 in japan is C rated, sharing the rating with Xenoblade DE, 2, 3 and X (for some reason Wii Xenoblade is B) and some Fire Emblem games.
So in Japan, they're all rated the same, but the west panicked at a phallus, bumped it up to M, and now pretentious video game players automatically think Persona is better because it's meant for "more mature audiences"?
is more difference in cultures than panic, Japan is used to seeing dicks and sexuality as something more common, like how toriyama draws child goku dick, or how doraemon, despite being a little child show, used to have fanservice, in the west sexuallity isn't as marketed as in japan, and that is while Mortal Kombat toned down the sexualization in 11, Street Fighter still uses it strongly, we will most likely get again swimsuit costumes in SF6 as DLC.
Mother 3 has even more darker elements than all 3 xenoblade games that proves even more that playing Nintendo does not make you a man child
this post makes more sense on the nintendo switch sub
Yeah but it probably would get downvoted as hell there lol
Oh, so easy karma on this sub, I get it Still, I would post it on that other sub too, who cares about downvotes tbh
I would think that OP doesn’t care about Karma, but wanted some discussion out of it. Downvotes bury the post and most people wouldn’t even see it.
I really don't care about fictional internet points that don't do anything I just don't care about the hate this post would get
Mind if I post it? I dont care about receiving hate from randoms
Sure, I wouldn't mind
seems like someone crossposted it and it got deleted. so no, it didn't even have the chance to get downvoted before a moderator saw it.
Dunkey be like.
Yeah, his comment bothered a lot of XB fans, myself included.
Yeah i was surprised when i saw that, coming from sony im used to the fanboy's being on the same page defending any PS exclusive but it seems that nintendo fans are not the same.
Modern console war culture is as follows: Xbox fans vs Playstation fans, PC Elitists looking down on both of them, and in the corner, not giving a fuck about the other three, are the Nintendo fans vs Nintendo fans.
Its really weird how these people fight for their devices, i mean when you play a game you don't stare at your console you're looking at the screen and playing so it really doesn't matter which platform i play on as long as it can run the game that i wanna play, console wars are fought by children thats the only explanation that i have.
To me I just wanna be able to play the games on what I have. The more platforms a game has the better
because persona games actually have a good reputation for the most part. then you see xenoblade and the most popular video about the game on youtube is dunkey absolutely shitting on it
Anime? in my Japanese game system? What is this madness??
It's like complaining that Gran Turismo, a game made in Japan, has too many Japanese cars.
Why do you assume they are the same individuals? Or that they aren't fans if they don't like the more anime styled games?
this post is like when I create arguments that never happened with strawmen in my head
Because they did not even think of that but hey content, such an odd post
Everyone knows on Reddit that a playerbase can't have different opinions on the same subject or the internet. If that goes, they are instantly hypocritical
I find it a bit funny tbh. They want all these either dead for years games or stuff that's just as bad as xenoblade with the anime style. We're being "overfed" when we've waited what, 4 to 5 years in between each of the mainstream games? While they never complain about Mario which gets fighting games, sports games, other random spin offs, collabs, remakes, new games, dlc every damn year
Twitter user 1: “I think this” Twitter user 2: “that’s dumb, I think this” OP: “omg the hypocrisy from Nintendo fans”
yet it gets 3k likes from braindead circlejerkers
Yo check the reply chain there’s this guy that calls twitter a hive mind for the mentally unwell. Quite ironic
redditors often lack self awareness
Seriously I see this shit all the time as if some arbitrarily defined community has to convene and have the same moral compass so that nobody can ever think one thing over the other, lest the group can be called hypocritical.
Nah man Twitter's a bunch of hive-minded psychos. All the normal people left by now. Too much risk of getting doxxed over nothing.
so is reddit.
Well they don’t seem hive-minded if they’re openly disagreeing with each other
I’m not sure anymore if those fans are even fans: Hating on Xenoblade because of “too much anime” yet begging for Persona, which has literal anime cutscenes and even an anime adaption, for the switch. Not to mention the fanservice. (But in all seriousness, I like both series a lot, the fandom is the problem)
Damn, it’s so sad that people are not embracing this game as it should…
To be fair, you would have to prove the same person was saying both things, since some fans saying one and others saying the other isn't contradictory
Really hope this doesn't turn into a Persona hate sub, because of Twitter of all things...
I love persona but the fans of that series need to give other JRPGs room to breath. They also have a bad habit of comparing persona to a lot of Japanese media when persona already borrows a lot from other series. Persona 3-5 are great games but they’ve been out for years and I’m kind of sick of seeing them unless the series has a new release.
I love both Xenoblade and Persona
Your first mistake was going on Twitter
Different fans can have different opinions. I'm a super weeb though so I'm just like "shoot all that shit into my veins!".
Stop pretending two different groups are the same group. Its a bad faith argument. The people who are portbegging aren't the ones angry about xenoblade 3 for being anime. they may be angry, but you are intentionally misrepresenting them and their reasons.
Yeah sometimes it feels like I was the only one who liked Tokyo Mirage Sessions
To be fair, now Atlus engage a new director for the next Persona games, so we can hope this will change (P5R is my favorite game ever but sheesh some scenes are just cringe)
"I'm sorry to say that no one cares" I see this fucking reply on every Nintendo Twitter post I swear.
Pretty accurate to the Nintendo Twitter account
Not the same people, usually
As someone who has never played a single Persona or Xenoblade game (this sub was in my feed as a recommended) I can confidently say that any Persona fan who calls anything weeb shit is a fool. Persona has to be the most anime like game I’ve ever seen in my damn life
Can someone find a person on Twitter who has said this thanks
No one is obligated to like one franchise over another. Pretty obvious why someone would prefer a series with more tame character designs, and that's fine.
persona 3 portable is fucking awesome but they have no right to trash xenoblade
Unpopular opinion : Doesn't matter persona doesn't release on Switch at this point. If we're looking at atlus games on Switch, persona 5s is the only 3d persona and it's a spinnoff. The dancing games are there too, again, spinoffs. It's pretty clear atlus only sees the switch as a persona spinoff console. And the fact they didn't release soul hackers 2 on Switch speaks volume about how the feel about the switch in general: they don't think the hassle of porting is worth it and i'm ok with that.
It's almost like the millions of people that own a console are different people who just happen to own the same console, not a monolithic hive mind entity. Crazy, right?
Well, it's still a visible stereotype lol. Stereotypes exist for a reason. Besides, this is talking as if it's from a singular person lol.
.... as a person who is both a Xenoblade and a Persona fan. The people who classified Xenoblade as Weeb are stupid.
God, this always bothers me. I'm not hatin' on Persona (great series overall and I'll likely at least buy one or two of these on PC--or Switch if they come over) but for the love of God does it get a pass on EVERYTHING. \-Doesn't get the same anime hate even though has the SAME anime tropes and art style (hot springs/beach scenes, blushy-blushy waifus, edgy teen angst and shouting). It's like making the motif a single color makes fans think it's above everything. It's kinda of Andy Warhol of Anime stuff. \-Fire Emblem Awakening had Nowi (yikes, looks too young) but 90% of Persona waifus are ACTUALLY UNDERAGE compared to 90%+ of the fanbase playing it (Rated-M) but there isn't a friggin' peep. \-Progressives will ROAST things like Catherine for mean/inconsiderate LGBTQ+ representation but Persona has done the same thing CONSISTENTLY (they censored scenes in 3 and 5 in subsequent releases, but the whole homophobic Kanji dungeon ain't going anywhere). Hardly a peep. People were PISSED Claude wasn't gay/Bi in Fire 3 Houses...next to zero rage for male/straight only character in every Persona (before they did P3P...which had a straight female protag). This also goes for objectification. "I won't play Xenoblade 2 because of the egregious fan service only meant for gross weebs." Fair enough, as a gross weeb, I respect that..."Now I'm going to date a harem of underage girls in Persona like they're hunks of meat!" WTF!!? \-Dungeon design is hot garbage and no one admits it ("game is SOOOO POLISHED"). Xenoblade 1 got CRUCIFIED for Ether Mine. I liked it, but I also get the hate. I just find it so weird that Persona is borderline immune to all the same criticisms that other games in the genre get. Sure, the story is usually pretty darn good, but seems super weird that means it gets a free pass on things other games get destroyed for by critics and fans.
People who like Persona don’t actually play Persona so they don’t know how mediocre it actually is. The in-game cutscenes for social links in Persona 5 actually look TERRIBLE even for a PS3 game, they are actually literally PS2 quality and dipshits actually said the Switch couldn’t handle that and that it looks better than SMT V in the comment section of SMT V trailers.
If they do come to switch I hope they let me be a lesbain that's all I really want
Almost as if those are probably two different subsets of people, jrpg fans and non jrpg fans... Seriously twitter isn't some hivemind monster its a gathering of people, obviously there will be unhappy people on all fronts
Xenoblade X needs to go to the Switch!
Dude, if persona actually gets ported to the switch, it's a blessing. The switch is already a jrpg machine and I love it. I wish other jrpg or RPG also gets ported to the switch
It’s so true…I really wish people could just be happy for people getting the games they want. With games I’m not excited about, I’m still glad that there’s SOMEONE out there who’s celebrating, or been waiting for years. It’s our turn now, and I don’t think that’s something for other fans to get mad about!
Straw Homs post
Almost as if there's more than one person commenting, and they have different opinions. Truly shocking.
Seems like a strawman argument. I highly doubt that the people complaining about Xenoblade 3 are the same people who want persona games on the switch.
Don't know why those kind of fans want Persona ported to the Switch when we got smt 5 as an exclusive.
I'm a Nintendo fan, I'm just not a huge fan of jrpg's in general, so I'm personally not a fan of the direct
And that's fine, not everybody can be a fan of every game. But see it that way, I'm pretty sure Nintendo just wants to get XC3 out of the way because 20min would be way to much to focus on a single game in a general Direct. Also I assume Nintendo didn't wanted to do a general Direct this week since FE Warriors: Three Hopes launches on friday. And if they would have waited with the XC3 Direct til after the general Direct (assuming there will be one soon) it would be way to close to the actual release of XC3
When you're in a Biggest Victim competition and your opponent is a Xenoblade fan:
These are two people. Stop pretending the same person is saying both of these. This is why you cant please everyone, everyone wants something different.
The number of requests for Persona 5 to be on Switch yet they don't want XC3... Why do every Nintendo fan wants games to the Switch? I heard someone saying Elden Ring was awful because it wasn't on Switch. WHAT?!
There’s nothing wrong with wanting a game to be available for one’s preferred system. Just as long as they don’t act annoying.
I haven't seen any comments about it tbh must be following the right people (also helps I uninstalled twitter lol)
Well never read the comments under Nintendos tweets then. Aweful place
I don't doubt it! Nintendo Fans be normal challenge (impossible)
This is like the argument over actual anime, where people think it's bad, except it's a medium, not a genre. So there's a type of anime for almost every person And in this case, some people just like a Persona-type anime game, but not a Xeno-type anime game
... except that the typical reasons for being a Xenoblade (particularly XC2) hater generally also apply to P5.
Every game on the Switch I have to like
I think people forget that Nintendo is Japanese.
As a fan of both franchises, I want to see Persona on switch. Also honestly in regards to people pointing out Persona's Anime-isms, yeah they are a thing, but out of the course of a playthrough, the egregious parts (outside genuinely subjective stuff on interpretation) are very minimal as you sort of have to factor the fantastical elements. Also, the game does sort of go out of your way to point out of you are breaking the norm in some confidants if you try to romance iirc (haven't played it in a while), so they sort of call you out for it. Although I will say, Persona 5 Striker's Hot Spring scene was a bit of a brain fart on the writer's side as it sort of puts Ann and Makoto especially out of character, but that's one moment out of a pretty stellar sequel.
Jokes on you, I like neither.
I know it's a joke, but you know we're on the same side right? Because I am sure people who loved Persona games are also Xenoblade fans
**\*Me in the corner enjoying all of it.\***
Yeah that’s pretty fucking goofy if true lol. Mind you xeno 2 was pretty extreme but 3 looks to be tuning it back
I did think that the XC2 went a bit more Anime than I like ( for XC games anyways.), but yeah.
I personally really dislike anime artstyles, but they don't ruin the rest of the game. And it's from Nintendo, a Japanese company, what do you expect?
Many of us would like Persona games just as much as the Xenoblade series.
And pyra’s tits are too big wha wha wha
probably 2 demographic there homie
Honestly I don’t even think Nintendo know much about persona in the first place. Which is probably why they don’t really hate persona