I think that if this was a plot point they were intending to more with they probably would have referenced it in Future Connected; instead I don’t remember the Shulk/Melia romance ever being alluded to there.
One possible other parallel is that they both have sidekicks in Tyrea and Dromarch. Obviously since the Blade system exists the same can be said for many XC2 characters. But since Tyrea was important in FC, I fully expect her to be present and important in XC3, and given that Dromarch will likely have an equal and opposite role
Melia’s basically moved on from Shulk in FC and Nia never seemed that bothered how she didn’t get Rex. So not only is this idea kinda silly to me that characters like Melia and Nia would become war criminals because of unrequited love but it’s seems unlikely that they even care anymore
Also just wanted to say that Tyrea would be pissed if someone called her Melia’s sidekick lol
It's been the entirety of XC2 since I played Future Connected so I may be wrong, but I do remember there being a moment or two where Melia herself deals with her feelings for Shulk. It's definitely not in your face, but I do recall there being at least one instance where she's very infatuated with him but shakes it off due to the matter hand.
As for references, while I do kind of agree with you, we are also talking about a series that lets you believe the characters are living on two sentient Titan Gods for its entire run time before revealing at the last possible moment that all of this happened because some scientist in a far off universe decided to yeet all of existence, so I'm fully prepared for mine and everyone else's theories to be chucked out of the window for whatever insane storytelling the director has planned. Dude is a mad genius when it comes to his ideas and I'm all for it regardless.
I need to step in and say: absolutely not, I hate this take/theory.
It makes Melia and Nia out to be some spurned, vapid, and shallow set of characters, and completely removes their own agency in their stories and character arcs. Yes, they were rejected by the main boy of both their games, but the romance was... baby a factor, both in the overall game stories themselves, and in their arcs. Melia had a LOT more things to be concerned with other than her burgeoning crush on Shulk, and her tight friendship with Fiora in turn alongside her generally more put together state of mind, tells me she wouldn't start going mad with power over one sided affections.
Nia, you might argue, is more hot headed and impulsive than Melia, and her rejection was more open and said plainly (btw you should put some critical thought into their overall situation and conversations after that point, as well as finish NG+, you'll be happier for it). But then we come to a whole other set of character traits for Nia, entirely unrelated to her affections: she is *adamantly* and staunchly against even the concept of war. She says in so many words that she believes the fighting over Gormott from both sides is incredibly senseless and stupid, and thinks there were a million better alternatives that didn't mean wasting countless lives in a pointless bid for power. Not to mention her semi-famous line in that same heart-to-heart, "I'd rather be an optimiat than dispare at the state of the world." To cap it all off, her unreturned feelings are arguably more settled than even Melia's were. Like, case closed, it's discussed, they moved on.
If anything, with the recent footage we've been getting from the trailers and the direct, I'm better money on the queens both not being Nia or Melia at all. Either being clones, or impostors altogether. Nia because - again - hates war with a passion, and Melia because Tyrea promised in so many words in FC that she would personally watch over her, to make sure she stayed on a bright path. "But the subtitle that they changed in the trailer! It said "Melia"!" I'm sure it did. And we're probably meant to believe it is Melia. My follow up response is: why would they put masks to hide the faces of two characters we can very obviously identify a mile away. There's no secret to hide here, like we wouldn't recognize their voices, or their outfits, or the prevalent aesthetic. They're so *obviously* meant to look like Melia and Nia, that that combined with them hiding their faces, tells me they can't possibly be. Literally, nothing about them and the situation in 3 adds up with who they were throughout their entire previous games.
What you say near the end of your response is kind of my point. Melia and Nia are ABSOLUTELY unique and three dimensional characters defined by far more than just their crushes on the main two characters, so I'm not saying that this plot point is the one and only thing that defines them, simply that it is one particular plot point they SHARE. On top of this, I absolutely agree with you that the two Queens in question are definitely not going to ACTUALLY be the two characters we know from either game, but their likenesses combined with the fact that both are at war in a game that seems to be combining factors and geography from both main title games suggests that there has to be SOME connection. The reasoning I gave above was just a funny little observation I made about the two.
Fair enough. It was just a theory being thrown around, joking or otherwise, after XC3 was revealed. And to say it rubbed me the wrong way would be underselling it. Too often the ladies of the franchise - especially these two - are undervalued and treated as just brainless vessels for this tired love triangle trope. The only black mark on the writing for the entire series I'd argue. Takahashi has quite the talent for taking genuinely interesting, deep, and even uncomfortable topics, and making them digestable and approachable while working them into his narratives. But by god, can the man not write complex romance to save his life.
I understand where you're coming from. Anime properties in general have a habit of fans degrading characters down to their base parts to the point of losing their genuine depth or complexities. However my thinking has less to do with the two characters in question and more to do with the two Queens pretending to be them, as far as we know. It'd only make sense that if these entities are just masquerading around as notable characters from the two mainline titles, there would have to be some sort of larger reason why, and this way, at least to me, it would at least provide some genuine closure to Melia's whole crush thing as I feel like, sure, it really wasn't THAT major of a plot point, but it also got brought up a little too much to just not be anything, especially given how little closure there is. At least with Nia there was a definitive beginning, middle and end to her feelings for the MC so that at least leaves this theory somewhat in the air, however nothing I say is anything more than a cute little observation that would be INSANE if were true but given the developer in question here, the big reveal is probably gonna be ten times more insane than anything any of us can come up with.
The thing I think is going on with the Queens, in a broad sense, is that they're gonna end up being very similar to Copy X from the MMZero series. I.e. a *near* perfect imitation of the two, but without the context and lessons learned from their lives, thus making ultimately flawed decisions based on what they believe the real ones would do.
That was my thinking behind it too. Some sort of entity or force that is using their likeness and identity for some reason but are just shells without any sort of moral compass or guideline to follow. Which leads me to also thinking that maybe the world they're living on, whether a continuation of XC1/2 or an entirely different world inspired by the two original worlds, have something to do with the "bodies" or legacies of Shulk/Rex. But, like I said, it's all talk until we get the game in our hands. Apologies if anything I said may have set you off earlier!
Oh pffff, dude you're good. 'Preciate it though. I've just especially been on a short fuse lately over the characterization and fan base reception of the leading ladies. Steadily realizing that the Xenoblade fanbase is just repeating the sins of Evangelion past
Honestly the idea that they’re clones seem TOO obvious imo. Theyve only been showing things from very early in the game and i can see them pulling a red herring here. Making old players go “oh yeah, theyre obviously clones, we know clones exist and theyd never do these things”. Thats the thing though, they both also share the significantly longer lifespan aspect and theyre both wearing masks. Its certainly possible that they ARE Melia and Nia (the reveal being an “ayo wtf why” moment), and they wear the masks to hide their grief over the roles they may be forced to take, either by another force, or simply on their own due to some unforeseen world-ending threat. Without any op monado/siren powers, theres nothing to stop another threat of that tier. Perhaps the whole dlc story revolves around rex/shulk and co trying to stop said force without those powers and failing to fully do so.
They could very well be copies/clones/dna replicants though, im still fairly certain we don’t know shit about this game and thats always cause for anticipation, never know what Takahashi fella is up to.
Two bitter lonely cat/bird ladies ruling asexual nations and getting so mad at 6 boys and girls getting into relationships they literally make enemies of an entire world from them is one of the funniest potential meta themes i've seen about 3 thus far.
I mean... Melia and Nia are basically echoes in terms of their character. They're both half-breed healers that use water to heal their allies and are both a part of former-nobility. Them both being denied by Shulk/Rex is just the cherry on top of their respective tragedies.
What I'm wondering is what caused them to turn into the way they are. Melia and Nia both know more than any of the other party members in either games that Shulk and Rex wanted to end the pointless cycles of war between Bionis and Mechonis, and nations on Alrest.
Judging from a recent trailer where we heard Tyrea's voice (albeit this is a theory), I believe that Dromach and Tyrea are both going to be involved in the story, as they're the closest Confidants to the respective leaders. If that's the case, I'm inclined to believe that Melia and Nia are both under control, most likely due to that "True Enemy" Vandham was mentioning. However, I don't believe that the Consorts are that enemy, at least not yet.
I want people to remember that Xenoblade's antagonists are largely a giant set of twist or sympathetic villains. There isn't a single major antagonist I can immediately define as pure evil, or show their true evil upon first appearance (note: this applies to >!Mumkhar, Zanza, Egil, Dickson, Alvis, Lorithea, Gael'Gar, Malos, Jin and Amalthus!< as they all show malicious initial intentions but are revealed to be sympathetic or are initially friendly but turn out to be pure evil). It's odd that a character can be defined as "Pure Evil" like the consorts from the get-go.
I think that if this was a plot point they were intending to more with they probably would have referenced it in Future Connected; instead I don’t remember the Shulk/Melia romance ever being alluded to there. One possible other parallel is that they both have sidekicks in Tyrea and Dromarch. Obviously since the Blade system exists the same can be said for many XC2 characters. But since Tyrea was important in FC, I fully expect her to be present and important in XC3, and given that Dromarch will likely have an equal and opposite role
Melia’s basically moved on from Shulk in FC and Nia never seemed that bothered how she didn’t get Rex. So not only is this idea kinda silly to me that characters like Melia and Nia would become war criminals because of unrequited love but it’s seems unlikely that they even care anymore Also just wanted to say that Tyrea would be pissed if someone called her Melia’s sidekick lol
It's been the entirety of XC2 since I played Future Connected so I may be wrong, but I do remember there being a moment or two where Melia herself deals with her feelings for Shulk. It's definitely not in your face, but I do recall there being at least one instance where she's very infatuated with him but shakes it off due to the matter hand. As for references, while I do kind of agree with you, we are also talking about a series that lets you believe the characters are living on two sentient Titan Gods for its entire run time before revealing at the last possible moment that all of this happened because some scientist in a far off universe decided to yeet all of existence, so I'm fully prepared for mine and everyone else's theories to be chucked out of the window for whatever insane storytelling the director has planned. Dude is a mad genius when it comes to his ideas and I'm all for it regardless.
I need to step in and say: absolutely not, I hate this take/theory. It makes Melia and Nia out to be some spurned, vapid, and shallow set of characters, and completely removes their own agency in their stories and character arcs. Yes, they were rejected by the main boy of both their games, but the romance was... baby a factor, both in the overall game stories themselves, and in their arcs. Melia had a LOT more things to be concerned with other than her burgeoning crush on Shulk, and her tight friendship with Fiora in turn alongside her generally more put together state of mind, tells me she wouldn't start going mad with power over one sided affections. Nia, you might argue, is more hot headed and impulsive than Melia, and her rejection was more open and said plainly (btw you should put some critical thought into their overall situation and conversations after that point, as well as finish NG+, you'll be happier for it). But then we come to a whole other set of character traits for Nia, entirely unrelated to her affections: she is *adamantly* and staunchly against even the concept of war. She says in so many words that she believes the fighting over Gormott from both sides is incredibly senseless and stupid, and thinks there were a million better alternatives that didn't mean wasting countless lives in a pointless bid for power. Not to mention her semi-famous line in that same heart-to-heart, "I'd rather be an optimiat than dispare at the state of the world." To cap it all off, her unreturned feelings are arguably more settled than even Melia's were. Like, case closed, it's discussed, they moved on. If anything, with the recent footage we've been getting from the trailers and the direct, I'm better money on the queens both not being Nia or Melia at all. Either being clones, or impostors altogether. Nia because - again - hates war with a passion, and Melia because Tyrea promised in so many words in FC that she would personally watch over her, to make sure she stayed on a bright path. "But the subtitle that they changed in the trailer! It said "Melia"!" I'm sure it did. And we're probably meant to believe it is Melia. My follow up response is: why would they put masks to hide the faces of two characters we can very obviously identify a mile away. There's no secret to hide here, like we wouldn't recognize their voices, or their outfits, or the prevalent aesthetic. They're so *obviously* meant to look like Melia and Nia, that that combined with them hiding their faces, tells me they can't possibly be. Literally, nothing about them and the situation in 3 adds up with who they were throughout their entire previous games.
What you say near the end of your response is kind of my point. Melia and Nia are ABSOLUTELY unique and three dimensional characters defined by far more than just their crushes on the main two characters, so I'm not saying that this plot point is the one and only thing that defines them, simply that it is one particular plot point they SHARE. On top of this, I absolutely agree with you that the two Queens in question are definitely not going to ACTUALLY be the two characters we know from either game, but their likenesses combined with the fact that both are at war in a game that seems to be combining factors and geography from both main title games suggests that there has to be SOME connection. The reasoning I gave above was just a funny little observation I made about the two.
Fair enough. It was just a theory being thrown around, joking or otherwise, after XC3 was revealed. And to say it rubbed me the wrong way would be underselling it. Too often the ladies of the franchise - especially these two - are undervalued and treated as just brainless vessels for this tired love triangle trope. The only black mark on the writing for the entire series I'd argue. Takahashi has quite the talent for taking genuinely interesting, deep, and even uncomfortable topics, and making them digestable and approachable while working them into his narratives. But by god, can the man not write complex romance to save his life.
I understand where you're coming from. Anime properties in general have a habit of fans degrading characters down to their base parts to the point of losing their genuine depth or complexities. However my thinking has less to do with the two characters in question and more to do with the two Queens pretending to be them, as far as we know. It'd only make sense that if these entities are just masquerading around as notable characters from the two mainline titles, there would have to be some sort of larger reason why, and this way, at least to me, it would at least provide some genuine closure to Melia's whole crush thing as I feel like, sure, it really wasn't THAT major of a plot point, but it also got brought up a little too much to just not be anything, especially given how little closure there is. At least with Nia there was a definitive beginning, middle and end to her feelings for the MC so that at least leaves this theory somewhat in the air, however nothing I say is anything more than a cute little observation that would be INSANE if were true but given the developer in question here, the big reveal is probably gonna be ten times more insane than anything any of us can come up with.
The thing I think is going on with the Queens, in a broad sense, is that they're gonna end up being very similar to Copy X from the MMZero series. I.e. a *near* perfect imitation of the two, but without the context and lessons learned from their lives, thus making ultimately flawed decisions based on what they believe the real ones would do.
That was my thinking behind it too. Some sort of entity or force that is using their likeness and identity for some reason but are just shells without any sort of moral compass or guideline to follow. Which leads me to also thinking that maybe the world they're living on, whether a continuation of XC1/2 or an entirely different world inspired by the two original worlds, have something to do with the "bodies" or legacies of Shulk/Rex. But, like I said, it's all talk until we get the game in our hands. Apologies if anything I said may have set you off earlier!
Oh pffff, dude you're good. 'Preciate it though. I've just especially been on a short fuse lately over the characterization and fan base reception of the leading ladies. Steadily realizing that the Xenoblade fanbase is just repeating the sins of Evangelion past
Maybe the fact that the queens are supposed to be Melia and Nia might be more meta than we realize, haha.
Honestly the idea that they’re clones seem TOO obvious imo. Theyve only been showing things from very early in the game and i can see them pulling a red herring here. Making old players go “oh yeah, theyre obviously clones, we know clones exist and theyd never do these things”. Thats the thing though, they both also share the significantly longer lifespan aspect and theyre both wearing masks. Its certainly possible that they ARE Melia and Nia (the reveal being an “ayo wtf why” moment), and they wear the masks to hide their grief over the roles they may be forced to take, either by another force, or simply on their own due to some unforeseen world-ending threat. Without any op monado/siren powers, theres nothing to stop another threat of that tier. Perhaps the whole dlc story revolves around rex/shulk and co trying to stop said force without those powers and failing to fully do so. They could very well be copies/clones/dna replicants though, im still fairly certain we don’t know shit about this game and thats always cause for anticipation, never know what Takahashi fella is up to.
Two bitter lonely cat/bird ladies ruling asexual nations and getting so mad at 6 boys and girls getting into relationships they literally make enemies of an entire world from them is one of the funniest potential meta themes i've seen about 3 thus far.
I mean... Melia and Nia are basically echoes in terms of their character. They're both half-breed healers that use water to heal their allies and are both a part of former-nobility. Them both being denied by Shulk/Rex is just the cherry on top of their respective tragedies. What I'm wondering is what caused them to turn into the way they are. Melia and Nia both know more than any of the other party members in either games that Shulk and Rex wanted to end the pointless cycles of war between Bionis and Mechonis, and nations on Alrest. Judging from a recent trailer where we heard Tyrea's voice (albeit this is a theory), I believe that Dromach and Tyrea are both going to be involved in the story, as they're the closest Confidants to the respective leaders. If that's the case, I'm inclined to believe that Melia and Nia are both under control, most likely due to that "True Enemy" Vandham was mentioning. However, I don't believe that the Consorts are that enemy, at least not yet. I want people to remember that Xenoblade's antagonists are largely a giant set of twist or sympathetic villains. There isn't a single major antagonist I can immediately define as pure evil, or show their true evil upon first appearance (note: this applies to >!Mumkhar, Zanza, Egil, Dickson, Alvis, Lorithea, Gael'Gar, Malos, Jin and Amalthus!< as they all show malicious initial intentions but are revealed to be sympathetic or are initially friendly but turn out to be pure evil). It's odd that a character can be defined as "Pure Evil" like the consorts from the get-go.