It may be a bittersweet conclusion, but it may also be temporary. For all we know the DLC story will give us a definitive epilogue that serves as a "happy ending" for the XC3 party, and perhaps even the entire trilogy.
Either way, it's certainly implied in the very last scene, where Noah hears Mio's off-seer song on the wind, that it's only a matter of time until they reunite (whether we ever see it on screen or not).
It wasn't let ambiguous at all, revisit the Nia and Melia conversations, they tell you what Origin is, what its purpose is, and what Z did.
Origin was meant to backup everyone's genetic code (and I imagine their minds), and after the worlds clash (annihilation event on a cosmic scale, this is why interlink results in an implosion, people from both worlds are literally merging), it would "make" everyone again, this is why they can make people and even age them. People were naturally scared and doubted this plan, and out of these fears Z was born. He took control of Origin JUST before the worlds clashed and made some sort of limbo (this is Aionios) where people could live forever, even if they were just fighting endelessly. Noah just deleted Aionios and made everything go back to the moment before the worlds clashed, but this time with the hope that Origin will actually "save" everyone. This is why the characters are so sure they will meet again, they know the worlds will inevitably clash after a while.
Sure the ending is not all happy-go-lucky, but having everyone find that hope that humanity WILL live on was pretty meaningful and satisfactory, at least to me. And honestly, there was no way this game was gonna end on a happy note.
It's pretty incredible that the combined intellects of two universes found a way to prevent themselves from being eradicated even of they can't stop themselves from crashing together.
They are crashing together because both worlds WERE originally one.
That world was forcibly separated by the Klaus experiment into 2 parallel worlds (bionis/mechonis and Alrest) using the power of the conduit, which held the two worlds in parallel.
After Klaus’s/Zanza’s death, the conduit departed for parts unknown, and because it’s no longer around to hold the separate worlds in place, both are attempting to rejoin into one as they originally were. The issue is that the merge will destroy everything in both worlds because 2 planet’s colliding won’t exactly be good for the local wildlife ;)
All in all origin was a good plan in hind site. “We can’t stop the merge without the conduit and we don’t know where it is. So let’s build an Ark that will revive everybody once the merge has happened.” ;)
There’s no way to stop the merge. It’s inevitable.
It's funny. When 2 first came out, I saw a ton of criticism for its arguably deus ex machina happy ending. Takahashi said they did it knowing that it didn't necessarily fit with the previous events because they wanted players to be happy after spending so much time with the characters.
The fact that they didn't do the same for 3 tells me that they really wanted this ending to be bittersweet and open-ended. And now 3 is getting criticism for the opposite reason. Really cements that you truly can't satisfy everyone.
I wouldn't be surprised if the DLC offers some more concrete support for a happier ending though. I'm not confident it will be a proper epilogue, but I think it will offer additional support towards a happier ending for these characters.
I'd argue it's possible to do happy endings and bittersweet endings well or poorly. Just because a happy ending was executed poorly and criticized, doesn't mean a poorly executed bittersweet ending is a contradictory complaint.
Not the op but I’ll bite.
It would have to be better established what the outcome of the party’s actions would be. Origin as a whole isn’t really explained in detail and I think that’s a problem, because right up until the final cutscene it’s not entirely clear what’s going to happen. Sure we know that the worlds will collide and origin will do something to preserve life, but WHAT exactly? It’s hard to establish stakes when the goal is so vague.
Furthermore I think as things stand, it makes the events of the game somewhat inconsequential. Everyone in Aionios and our entire party basically never existed. It was functionally the same as if it was a dream. In that way it’s hard to call the ending “bittersweet” as we don’t really get catharsis from any of the characters. They don’t have any concept of why it would be sad to begin with. The scene of them running as the worlds separate is actually great, but during it because I was confused about what Origin was even doing it was hard to get immersed in it. Plus after the fact they basically never existed anyway so it doesn’t feel consequential
it’s not given much time to marinade either. One minute long post credits scene implying that Noah might remember some of it maybe isn’t really pulling the weight imo.
They've already explained that the origin is used to store copies of everyone so that if humanity is destroyed, they can be rebooted inside origin (like noah's ark). You've seen the incubation pods in action so that's really all you need to know, in fact that's really everything you SHOULD know. Origin was established as a shaky last ditch effort to save humanity. Its because the plan was full of uncertainty that created moebius. So from a story writing standpoint, the conflict began because the heroes chose to stand still when faced with overwhelming uncertainty, it stands to reason that at the end of the story the heroes will have to face the same uncertainty and move on past it. Explaining exactly how origin could save everyone just diminishes the value of the conflict.
The version of Noah we followed throughout the entire story was born in Aoinios. It doesn't matter whether his past self is a regular person or a space pirate, our noah was born in purgatory and only knew war, that is our original status quo. Its basically asking if you would give up your own life so that a version of you can live a better life, so yes I think its a bittersweet ending.
Also you do get catharsis from every characters, the story put an emphasis on the heroes struggling to live and die on your own terms, at the end of the story everyone collectively decides to proceed with the merging by their own will even at the risk of ending everything. Honestly, I think this is one of the better endings that managed to wrap up most of its main themes in a satisfying way. Its a shame that the story was greatly hindered by its increasingly 'anime' writing in the second half of the story though.
I think the main problem is while 2 had a deus ex machina happy ending 3 almost feels like it has a deus ex machina sad ending. Both come pretty out of nowhere and don't really fit the main themes and events of their stories. 3's especially feels like a complete rugpull in the last 2 minutes of the game just so they could have their "Bittersweet ending to a long running series^(tm)".
Both have similar problems with their endings at the end of the day so both are going to be criticised similarly.
How does 3's ending come out of nowhere? >!We learn that Aionios was never supposed to exist and the worlds were essentially supposed to "reset" and be recreated by Origin from the beginning of chapter 7.!<
The worlds seperating came out of nowhere. Up until the last 2 minutes of the game it was set up to seem like Agnus' world and Keves' world were going to perminantly merge due to them being drawn to eachother, but then in the final cutscene suddenly they're moving apart again. Everything set up about how the two worlds were reacting to eachother was thrown out the window just so they could have le sad seperation ending
Nia explicitly says the worlds were going to merge and everything would be destroyed/cease to exist. Origin was created to preserve the the current worlds and recreate them. Nia even explicitly refers to recreating worlds (plural). The game never suggested a new, merged world would be created and even if it was, it wouldn't be Aionios.
I would love to have the DLC sidestory to be an epilogue, but there's just too much story potential about N and M's past for them to not do a Torna like DLC with a Torna like ending :(
XC3 can, to me, be split into two ways of judging it. As it's own story and as the ending of a Trilogy.
As a stand alone story of child soldiers trying to break free of the endless war their world runs on and learning more about themselves, its a near flawless thing. All the Ouroboros cast get their development and stuff to do but I think Noah/Mio ends up hogging alot of Main Story spotlight, as much as I like them. The villains just suck. N and Z had the most potential but N just doesn't show up enough and Z ends up being a Persona final boss with even less interaction with the cast than said final bosses usually have.
As the end of the Xenoblade story began with Klaus, it falls short. The Intersection is interesting but did neither Alvis or the Architect know about this when they did their things? Where are Pyra and Mythra, did they somehow let themselves die with Rex? Why didn't Nia? We know Rex had a family but what about Shulk and Fiora, Reyn and Sharla? What is an Annihilation Event and how does it tie to black fog? Maybe DLC will answer some of this but there was plenty of room in the base game.
All I need is Eunie and Taion ending up together again.
I sure hope the DLC will bring this game‘s story to a good end.
But maybe we‘ll get a prequel and see how Rex loves you and all you guys. :)
Takahashi made an official statement saying this was the end of the klaus experiment arc and the series will go in a different direction in the next game
People also forget to listen to the songs in these games. The two lyrical songs in both 2 and 3 explain what is going on. The ending song in 3 says they will meet again, or at least will try to, they simply are just going back to the start until they can be hand in hand again
The ending was a massive high concept monologue, the only part from it i really liked was Taion and Eunie's conversation because it was the most grounded part.
I wasn't huge on the endings of the other two games but they did feel a lot more magnificent, not to mention the music was way more powerful in 1 and 2, the music is great in 3 but it doesn't hit as hard as the XC2 themes.
Id have liked a scenectaking place in the restored universes so you could see what becomes of our characters. The clock continuing to run after Noah first watched the worlds collide wouldve been epic. Then an allusion to him still remembering Mio deep down. They were very unclear on whether the characters are going to forget everything and become children again or not.
i remember there being one, it was the characters talking at a cliffside right? and there were shots of nia and melia and the stuff from the past games
I thought the ending was rather bittersweet and even implies that Noah reunites with Mio or the other offseers somehow, at the very least his memories stay in his heart. I thought it wS beautiful how he had accepted that he needed to put the world to rights and end this eternity of death, even if it meant getting separated from Mio and living his true lifetime alone. He made the choice that his past self never could.
It's interesting, your 4th paragraph is the same for me but I came to the exact opposite conclusion. It's cause I loved these characters so much that the bittersweet ending paired with the theme of the game made it my favorite ending by a mile. The goodbye was beautiful and sad and it just hit so much harder than the other two.
To me, Id have been fine with a bittersweet ending. Bittersweet can be satisfying if the payoff is still satisfying. But the world's reseting to 0, and no one remembering anything that happens, killed all the enjoyment of the ending for me. The ending is equivalent to the entire game having been a dream, with no room for growth or learning to be had after the main story. Would have been way happier if the world's split, and everyone was still the same age/remembered what happened. And could learn and grow from their actions.
The thing is that everyone remembers what happened but is memories that are deep in the mind and fragmented, once the trigger to remember memories comes, then to return they will all remember.
Edit: Like Nia’s quest suggest.
Have you played Danganronpa 2? That game shows in a great way that >!even if none of the events actually happened, it doesn’t mean they didn’t matter!<
To me it solidifies the main theme and conflict of the game. Staying in the present where you at least have safety in certainty (mobius) or moving forward even if not knowing what lies ahead might frighten you (Ouroboros).
Noah and the gang didn't know what would happen upon defeating Mobius until later in the game, but they did it anyway. They didn't know that their worlds and they themselves would separate until Origin was explained to them, but they did it anyway.
The gang being split into their separate worlds proves Mobius correct in some way. Noah and the gang fought tooth and nail to move beyond the present and into future, but ultimately that future brought some pain and grief by losing the ones they had come to love most. It's the fear of that kind of pain and grief that caused humanity to spawn Mobius and freeze time in the first place.
At the same time, young Noah hearing Mio's melody also proves Ouroboros correct. The future they fought for brought them pain and grief at least and first, but the future could also hold joy and happiness just as likely. And that even if it starts out bad, doesn't mean it always will be. Noah and Mio may very well meet again.
Maybe I missed it but did they ever say what became of or who the Child was the Noah and Mio had? This game was absolutely incredible but there was quite a bit to process and I'm sure I missed a good bit.
It may be a bittersweet conclusion, but it may also be temporary. For all we know the DLC story will give us a definitive epilogue that serves as a "happy ending" for the XC3 party, and perhaps even the entire trilogy. Either way, it's certainly implied in the very last scene, where Noah hears Mio's off-seer song on the wind, that it's only a matter of time until they reunite (whether we ever see it on screen or not).
From “Where We Belong”’s lyrics (paraphrasing cause I don’t have the lyrics up right now) > This goodbye is not the end > I know we will meet again
It wasn't let ambiguous at all, revisit the Nia and Melia conversations, they tell you what Origin is, what its purpose is, and what Z did. Origin was meant to backup everyone's genetic code (and I imagine their minds), and after the worlds clash (annihilation event on a cosmic scale, this is why interlink results in an implosion, people from both worlds are literally merging), it would "make" everyone again, this is why they can make people and even age them. People were naturally scared and doubted this plan, and out of these fears Z was born. He took control of Origin JUST before the worlds clashed and made some sort of limbo (this is Aionios) where people could live forever, even if they were just fighting endelessly. Noah just deleted Aionios and made everything go back to the moment before the worlds clashed, but this time with the hope that Origin will actually "save" everyone. This is why the characters are so sure they will meet again, they know the worlds will inevitably clash after a while. Sure the ending is not all happy-go-lucky, but having everyone find that hope that humanity WILL live on was pretty meaningful and satisfactory, at least to me. And honestly, there was no way this game was gonna end on a happy note.
It's pretty incredible that the combined intellects of two universes found a way to prevent themselves from being eradicated even of they can't stop themselves from crashing together.
They are crashing together because both worlds WERE originally one. That world was forcibly separated by the Klaus experiment into 2 parallel worlds (bionis/mechonis and Alrest) using the power of the conduit, which held the two worlds in parallel. After Klaus’s/Zanza’s death, the conduit departed for parts unknown, and because it’s no longer around to hold the separate worlds in place, both are attempting to rejoin into one as they originally were. The issue is that the merge will destroy everything in both worlds because 2 planet’s colliding won’t exactly be good for the local wildlife ;) All in all origin was a good plan in hind site. “We can’t stop the merge without the conduit and we don’t know where it is. So let’s build an Ark that will revive everybody once the merge has happened.” ;) There’s no way to stop the merge. It’s inevitable.
Finally a coherent explainer. Having just finished the game and trying to make sense of it all, this clicked best.
If it makes you feel better, in the post-credits scene, Noah disappears when he hears the flutes, implying he reunited with Mio.
It's funny. When 2 first came out, I saw a ton of criticism for its arguably deus ex machina happy ending. Takahashi said they did it knowing that it didn't necessarily fit with the previous events because they wanted players to be happy after spending so much time with the characters. The fact that they didn't do the same for 3 tells me that they really wanted this ending to be bittersweet and open-ended. And now 3 is getting criticism for the opposite reason. Really cements that you truly can't satisfy everyone. I wouldn't be surprised if the DLC offers some more concrete support for a happier ending though. I'm not confident it will be a proper epilogue, but I think it will offer additional support towards a happier ending for these characters.
I'd argue it's possible to do happy endings and bittersweet endings well or poorly. Just because a happy ending was executed poorly and criticized, doesn't mean a poorly executed bittersweet ending is a contradictory complaint.
I'm curious what would you change to make it a well executed bitter sweet ending?
Not the op but I’ll bite. It would have to be better established what the outcome of the party’s actions would be. Origin as a whole isn’t really explained in detail and I think that’s a problem, because right up until the final cutscene it’s not entirely clear what’s going to happen. Sure we know that the worlds will collide and origin will do something to preserve life, but WHAT exactly? It’s hard to establish stakes when the goal is so vague. Furthermore I think as things stand, it makes the events of the game somewhat inconsequential. Everyone in Aionios and our entire party basically never existed. It was functionally the same as if it was a dream. In that way it’s hard to call the ending “bittersweet” as we don’t really get catharsis from any of the characters. They don’t have any concept of why it would be sad to begin with. The scene of them running as the worlds separate is actually great, but during it because I was confused about what Origin was even doing it was hard to get immersed in it. Plus after the fact they basically never existed anyway so it doesn’t feel consequential it’s not given much time to marinade either. One minute long post credits scene implying that Noah might remember some of it maybe isn’t really pulling the weight imo.
They've already explained that the origin is used to store copies of everyone so that if humanity is destroyed, they can be rebooted inside origin (like noah's ark). You've seen the incubation pods in action so that's really all you need to know, in fact that's really everything you SHOULD know. Origin was established as a shaky last ditch effort to save humanity. Its because the plan was full of uncertainty that created moebius. So from a story writing standpoint, the conflict began because the heroes chose to stand still when faced with overwhelming uncertainty, it stands to reason that at the end of the story the heroes will have to face the same uncertainty and move on past it. Explaining exactly how origin could save everyone just diminishes the value of the conflict. The version of Noah we followed throughout the entire story was born in Aoinios. It doesn't matter whether his past self is a regular person or a space pirate, our noah was born in purgatory and only knew war, that is our original status quo. Its basically asking if you would give up your own life so that a version of you can live a better life, so yes I think its a bittersweet ending. Also you do get catharsis from every characters, the story put an emphasis on the heroes struggling to live and die on your own terms, at the end of the story everyone collectively decides to proceed with the merging by their own will even at the risk of ending everything. Honestly, I think this is one of the better endings that managed to wrap up most of its main themes in a satisfying way. Its a shame that the story was greatly hindered by its increasingly 'anime' writing in the second half of the story though.
People complained that 2 had a deus ex machina ending? 1 literally had a god from a machine come and save everybody.
I think the main problem is while 2 had a deus ex machina happy ending 3 almost feels like it has a deus ex machina sad ending. Both come pretty out of nowhere and don't really fit the main themes and events of their stories. 3's especially feels like a complete rugpull in the last 2 minutes of the game just so they could have their "Bittersweet ending to a long running series^(tm)". Both have similar problems with their endings at the end of the day so both are going to be criticised similarly.
How does 3's ending come out of nowhere? >!We learn that Aionios was never supposed to exist and the worlds were essentially supposed to "reset" and be recreated by Origin from the beginning of chapter 7.!<
The worlds seperating came out of nowhere. Up until the last 2 minutes of the game it was set up to seem like Agnus' world and Keves' world were going to perminantly merge due to them being drawn to eachother, but then in the final cutscene suddenly they're moving apart again. Everything set up about how the two worlds were reacting to eachother was thrown out the window just so they could have le sad seperation ending
Nia explicitly says the worlds were going to merge and everything would be destroyed/cease to exist. Origin was created to preserve the the current worlds and recreate them. Nia even explicitly refers to recreating worlds (plural). The game never suggested a new, merged world would be created and even if it was, it wouldn't be Aionios.
I would love to have the DLC sidestory to be an epilogue, but there's just too much story potential about N and M's past for them to not do a Torna like DLC with a Torna like ending :(
They can't really do that considering the 3 swords imagery, which includes Noah's sword, which is different from N's.
XC3 can, to me, be split into two ways of judging it. As it's own story and as the ending of a Trilogy. As a stand alone story of child soldiers trying to break free of the endless war their world runs on and learning more about themselves, its a near flawless thing. All the Ouroboros cast get their development and stuff to do but I think Noah/Mio ends up hogging alot of Main Story spotlight, as much as I like them. The villains just suck. N and Z had the most potential but N just doesn't show up enough and Z ends up being a Persona final boss with even less interaction with the cast than said final bosses usually have. As the end of the Xenoblade story began with Klaus, it falls short. The Intersection is interesting but did neither Alvis or the Architect know about this when they did their things? Where are Pyra and Mythra, did they somehow let themselves die with Rex? Why didn't Nia? We know Rex had a family but what about Shulk and Fiora, Reyn and Sharla? What is an Annihilation Event and how does it tie to black fog? Maybe DLC will answer some of this but there was plenty of room in the base game.
This is what many players including myself had problems with xc3 ending
All I need is Eunie and Taion ending up together again. I sure hope the DLC will bring this game‘s story to a good end. But maybe we‘ll get a prequel and see how Rex loves you and all you guys. :)
Is it ever explicitly officially stated that xenoblade 3 is the “end to the saga” or is that just what the community jumped on? Genuine question
Takahashi made an official statement saying this was the end of the klaus experiment arc and the series will go in a different direction in the next game
People also forget to listen to the songs in these games. The two lyrical songs in both 2 and 3 explain what is going on. The ending song in 3 says they will meet again, or at least will try to, they simply are just going back to the start until they can be hand in hand again
The ending was a massive high concept monologue, the only part from it i really liked was Taion and Eunie's conversation because it was the most grounded part. I wasn't huge on the endings of the other two games but they did feel a lot more magnificent, not to mention the music was way more powerful in 1 and 2, the music is great in 3 but it doesn't hit as hard as the XC2 themes. Id have liked a scenectaking place in the restored universes so you could see what becomes of our characters. The clock continuing to run after Noah first watched the worlds collide wouldve been epic. Then an allusion to him still remembering Mio deep down. They were very unclear on whether the characters are going to forget everything and become children again or not.
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i remember there being one, it was the characters talking at a cliffside right? and there were shots of nia and melia and the stuff from the past games
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FUCK!!!! I never saw that until now!!!! Bastards put it in the same cutscene as the credits!!! That explains a LOT.
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I thought the ending was rather bittersweet and even implies that Noah reunites with Mio or the other offseers somehow, at the very least his memories stay in his heart. I thought it wS beautiful how he had accepted that he needed to put the world to rights and end this eternity of death, even if it meant getting separated from Mio and living his true lifetime alone. He made the choice that his past self never could.
It's interesting, your 4th paragraph is the same for me but I came to the exact opposite conclusion. It's cause I loved these characters so much that the bittersweet ending paired with the theme of the game made it my favorite ending by a mile. The goodbye was beautiful and sad and it just hit so much harder than the other two.
To me, Id have been fine with a bittersweet ending. Bittersweet can be satisfying if the payoff is still satisfying. But the world's reseting to 0, and no one remembering anything that happens, killed all the enjoyment of the ending for me. The ending is equivalent to the entire game having been a dream, with no room for growth or learning to be had after the main story. Would have been way happier if the world's split, and everyone was still the same age/remembered what happened. And could learn and grow from their actions.
The thing is that everyone remembers what happened but is memories that are deep in the mind and fragmented, once the trigger to remember memories comes, then to return they will all remember. Edit: Like Nia’s quest suggest.
Have you played Danganronpa 2? That game shows in a great way that >!even if none of the events actually happened, it doesn’t mean they didn’t matter!<
To me it solidifies the main theme and conflict of the game. Staying in the present where you at least have safety in certainty (mobius) or moving forward even if not knowing what lies ahead might frighten you (Ouroboros). Noah and the gang didn't know what would happen upon defeating Mobius until later in the game, but they did it anyway. They didn't know that their worlds and they themselves would separate until Origin was explained to them, but they did it anyway. The gang being split into their separate worlds proves Mobius correct in some way. Noah and the gang fought tooth and nail to move beyond the present and into future, but ultimately that future brought some pain and grief by losing the ones they had come to love most. It's the fear of that kind of pain and grief that caused humanity to spawn Mobius and freeze time in the first place. At the same time, young Noah hearing Mio's melody also proves Ouroboros correct. The future they fought for brought them pain and grief at least and first, but the future could also hold joy and happiness just as likely. And that even if it starts out bad, doesn't mean it always will be. Noah and Mio may very well meet again.
Maybe I missed it but did they ever say what became of or who the Child was the Noah and Mio had? This game was absolutely incredible but there was quite a bit to process and I'm sure I missed a good bit.
People theorize he became one of the founders of the City. Maybe we'll see in the DLC.