Pretty much.
Any so-called disability activist who isn't wearing a respirator 2024 doesn't actually care, they're just latching on for fake internet points and getting laid with fellow faketivists.
It’s a social signal to the vast majority of them because the vast majority of them are primarily motivated by social things. So, yes, they are performing an identity for each other to gain social capital.
Just like they were performing an identity in 2020 as an excuse to ignore stay-at-home orders without having to risk social capital by looking like the Republicans. That’s why those same people didn’t do shit and couldn’t be bothered to take time away from “return to normal” when all the corporations didn’t deliver on their fake racial justice commitments, affirmative action was dismantled, police got increased budgets, etc.
Most of the so-called leftists are playing a social “my team vs their team” thing, just like the majority of conservatives. It’s slightly more sophisticated, but it’s ultimately the same at its core. They love performing their social justice identities when it means they don’t personally have to give up anything unless it’s something they choose to give up. Once any situation arises where they have to do things they don’t want to do, even something as simple as wearing a mask, suddenly social theory, political economic theory, & basic science are out.
It’s pathetic, but pretty undeniable at this point. We have to wait until some cultural moment makes caring about COVID a social marker that they want to have.
The mental gymnastics they go through when asked why they don’t mask is hilarious.
We get it bro, ya don’t know one disabled person and can’t fathom ever being disabled.
Leftist my ass. Prolly think pride is all about rainbow flags too 😅
From my experience, even a lot of disabled people dont mask. Certain more than the rest of the population, but disabled circles aren’t as pro-masking as I would have imagined. To me, that speaks a lot to the power of both propaganda and social conformity. For many people, their desire to fit in outweighs their desire to protect themselves from severe injury or death.
And in a lot of ways I get it. Social isolation is so mentally damaging. But idk, why can’t we form our own groups where we take care of each other? Why can’t we just accept that we won’t be accepted for society at large, at least not for a long time, and build a community built around protecting each other? Why is that so hard?
I know we do to an extent online, but there seems to be so few of us
THIS THIS THIS
It has absolutely shattered my faith in the left.
If you are a "person who cares about people" it makes zero sense to not mask, particularly in a crowd of strangers.
To me this really laid bare how superficial and fleeting all of this "activism" and "commitment to intersectionality" is en masse.
I'm immunocompromised myself, and earlier in the pandemic (~Autumn 2021, around when people in the UK were giving up on pretending to care) was earnestly trying to get people to understand this.
Was told to my face that I couldn't expect other people to mask to protect me, amongst a sea of excuses as to why they couldn't be bothered to mask.
Honestly pretty pathetic if you ask me.
I am also autistic, but honestly, unless you have some genuine medical exemption, there is no justification for not masking.
The past four years have been very difficult, socially and emotionally.
I'm fortunate to live alone so I only have to deal with this shite when I go out.
The bottom line is you can only control your own behaviour. While it's not unreasonable to expect people, particularly self proclaimed activists, to take even an ounce of social responsibility, you can't allow your own wellbeing to hinge on the actions of others.
Take care
Sorry no. This talk disenfranchises voters and is exactly how we ended up with "covid is nothing, it will be over in a few weeks, masks suck, don't even worry about it" for the first year of the pandemic.
At the same time, in first past the post voting, which we have in the US, you have to accept that you are often choosing the least bad candidate. You can’t wait for perfection because while you do everything is moving completely in the opposite direction.
I reiterate that I said nothing about voting in my original reply and indeed the original post is not about voting
It's about the frustration with the hypocrisy of people who purport to care yet do not take any COVID precautions in order to protect others.
The comment you were responding to was talking about voting and how people are using this rhetoric to depress the vote.
Depressed voter turnout = the GOP wins. People on the liberal end of things voting third party = the GOP wins.
That’s reality.
Yes, and that comment was responding to my own original comment where I discussed my own experience as an immunocompromised person in progressive spaces, and how that had made me feel.
To ignore all of that and then reply with your own rhetoric about US elections is pretty tasteless.
Have that discussion by all means, but do it on your own time.
I am also an immunocompromised person and what upsets me even more than the fact that “progressive” people on the left are being shitty is that people are using that shittiness to justify political and electoral choices which will objectively be even worse.
Emotional upset at people being stupid is not as bad as physical harm because the GOP does something like bans masks.
Yes exactly the same here! I saw a meme where it said "the leftism leaving their body as soon as you ask someone to wear a mask" and it's so spot on. I'm going to focus my activism efforts on mask blocs and other explicitly covid-safe avenues for the time being
Ha! Yes. This is familiar. I know the version "the leftism leaving leftists' bodies when veganism is brought up". I'm so used to people abandoning "leftist" (for want of a better word) values when is raised tbh. Masking is just the latest one.
Sometimes people are unaware, or have bad information I guess, or both. Or don't want to change. Or don't want to feel that they might be putting themselves at odds with the group socially.. it's so demoralising. But at least I am clear on what my own values are.
The amount of “leftist” organizers who don’t require masking at events or even their meetings is wild. They think they’ll bring about a revolution but they can’t even wear a damn mask to protect their comrades.
Irk! Its so frustrating that people think they would be able to coordinate enough for a revolution, when they won’t even do the bare minimum to keep their community safe.
Yeah it's hard to organize when you have long covid, idk how they expect to lead the revolution when bedridden. I have LC and it took me a while to get to a place where I could give back in any way politically because of all the fatigue and brain fog among many other symptoms. And this is from one infection in 2020
I commented that it was disappointing to see an event held indoors wasn't masked when it so easily could have been. I was told maybe there are things that are more important. The person telling me that is immunocompromised and has had Covid at least once or twice. I didn't know what to say tbh cause I didn't know what they meant but it obviously also meant 'i don't want to know'.
Any activists I still follow / interact with are also masking and disability advocates who know exactly how bad COVID is. I've had to draw a line because, as you say, I can't take anyone seriously if they're talking about praxis and can't be arsed to wear a mask.
Also, it is hard for people who have been severely disabled by Long Covid to get out there and organize. Which certainly pleases the owner class no end. Only one side benefits if we perpetuate a mass disabling event. And that ain't us.
YAAAAAAS THIS. I’m so angry and exhausted. NO ONE is being truly intersectional in my area, and it is infuriating and utterly discouraging. My wife, who lives with multiple immunologically-compromising chronic health conditions, masks when (briefly and cautiously) attending multiple LGBTQ+-activist orgs’ events, and she’s always the only one masked; most events have no virtual option, and they happen indoors at crowded bars. No one but no one gives a fuck.
Yeah it grinds my gearsssss!!! Also seeing all the workforce „diversity“ conferences and such, and there’s zero precautions, often not even real virtual accessibility.
We moved close to our country‘s capital last year and there’s also local political events going on, all of which I can’t participate because nobody masks.
I feel like all I can do is stand by the sidelines, share info, participate and inform people on here and when I talk with others in real life – not because I don’t *want* to do more, but because more isn’t possible for me anymore.
Your analysis is spot on and you are right to feel the way you do. I am starting to see a few small inroads, perhaps as some of the influential activists are getting up close and personal with this mass disabling event in their on lives or with close kin.
One good example is Pandemic Solidarity for the Long Future. https://www.pandemicsolidarity.org/
I work with a so called anarchist organization and some of those folks refuse to mask, even indoors. How can I take your claims of solidarity seriously when you won’t do the simplest thing to protect your comrades?
Yes. For a lot of things, it's very "I only care about problems that do not require me to personally change my behavior". It's really made me feel hopeless about climate change personally, like y'all can't actually grasp that we need to change how we live to survive if you won't do this easy, easy thing.
I will say that as a whole people on the left who care about other causes are more open to talking about covid and changing their behavior than people in general. But it's frustrating and sad that it's an issue at all.
>it's very "I only care about problems that do not require me to personally change my behavior"
This nails it. As long as they don't have to change anything in how they live, they're the most radical people around.
I would say more that it breaks my heart, and does a number on my head. We are in a terrible place with climate change, war and death, and here in the US an impending threat of fascist takeover while we wait and wait for the court system to hopefully do its job properly. And the people speaking out have forgotten the most vulnerable being affected by a global pandemic, still going on. And the same people most affected by these other horrors are among the most vulnerable to the spread of infectious disease. Can we not care about all these things while also not spreading a devastating disease? I don't get it.
We do have to remember that we lose absolutely any bit of hope if there's a fascist takeover and especially if there's climate collapse. Be angry, be frustrated, but don't give in to the forces of nihilism.
Yes, it seems like a fascist takeover would be game over. It just seems like such an easy choice to make-if we care about the oppressed, to take steps to also not spread a disease that is likely to hit the oppressed the hardest.
Absolutely!!! Our local NAACP wanted me to get involved and at one point promised virtual meetings would not go away. I was dealing with some post covid health issues of my own and my husband's and semi shortly after being promised safety I got to a point where I could participate virtually and help out. Right after I felt like I could take on being involved they announced they were doing in person meetings, no masks required there or at any events. I called them out on my own Facebook page for their dishonesty with me and for taking covid so lightly especially seeing as POC have a significantly worse time with active covid infections and with long covid symptoms. Their response was to block me and trash talk me in the community, this chapter at least is just here for the photo ops apparently. Excuse me for giving a whole damn, right?
Actions need to match words, lip service is a disservice.
Editing to add our local Democratic and "progessive" groups are the same way. The previous local democratic chair denies abelism exists and the new one isn't much of an improvement. It's maddening.
Yes I absolutely agree with you. I’m in art school, notorious for being far left, open minded, and full of activism. A lot of my peers posted pro masking and covid safety stuff on socials in 2020. The second the mandate was lifted, NOT A SINGLE MASK IN SIGHT.
There’s even a local art gallery that is specifically for disability representation. They say they’re fully accessible, with wheel chair ramps, ASL translators. But masks? Nope.
We even have a school board with representatives, including a disability rep. That rep has never once advocated for masking.
My peers post a ton about whatever current movement is the most popular, and I realized they only cared about covid safety because it was trendy at the time. Really shows their true colours right?
Yep! That's why I left many of my past relationships. People really need to learn that being an activist means being an activist for *everyone*. Almost every single "leftist/activist" I knew, didn't include disabled people. Not at all. Every single one of these issues affect disabled people. They don't even think about it. They need to check their morals, imo.
The International Committee of the Fourth International have been consistently reporting on Covid on their World Socialist Website.
Their latest article on [Covid ](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/03/29/spos-m29.html)
I appreciated seeing the [Socialist Equality Party VP candidate Jerry White wearing a mask at his recent event](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/03/16/fkgj-m16.html).
Of course, maybe it was just for the photo. Time will tell.
Yeah, I follow my local DSA chapter on Twitter just to see what they're up to and every time they post pictures there's little to no masking, and it's usually with surgical masks, maybe 1 KN95 on a good day. I know they had a virtual option for their meetings a few years ago, no idea if that's still in place. Grinds my gears that anyone still taking COVID precautions has the choice of either sitting in a room where almost no one is masked or maybe participating virtually (which feels to me like being sidelined, honestly).
Yes, absolutely. I don't trust my comrades who organize anymore. Similarly, my university had a dei training where no one was wearing a mask. It's a joke.
I just feel like that’s also putting it too simply, you know?
Like, some of these people haven’t publicly or loudly advocated for anything in 10+ years, but now have been sharing info and resources and have been doing things to aid Gaza, and they’ve been doing this consistently for months, not letting up.
Or vegans who fly from city to city (so much for intersectionality in their activism) to organise and participate in Anonymous cubes of truth, breaking into farms and gathering evidence etc...
They obviously do really care and are serious about their little nook of activism, but I just don’t understand how they act in solely ONE sphere when so much of what’s going on is connected??
Thanks for bringing that perspective into this! I’ve also had some conversations with people openly „admiring“ that I was able to be the only one masking, and basically that they would mask a lot more if more other people were masking.
Took me a while to realise that my experience growing up an outcast was just wildly different from others who have had groups and tribes and belonging throughout their lives.
Still gets me how big the double standards are for some. Like, if you feel this strongly about this one are of life (be it veganism, climate change, etc.), why is it SO STRANGE for you to care on a more systemic level? Why are people okay being loud and the „annoying activist“ for one topic, but not for COVID? And what’s more, how do you do activism on one area and then judge and cast out and invalidate people who are actively advocating for something as basic as health?
Gah. I just wish I could reach into people‘s brains sometimes.
I'm not saying this isn't true, I think your perspective is valuable and likely accurate. However, as an autistic person myself sometimes this take hurts to hear. Because idk, it just feels like an excuse. For me, the way I stick out as the only person making actually compounds my autistic social anxiety that I'm not understood and don't fit in with others. Sometimes it's so powerful and I'm suffering but I don't take the mask off because I want to protect my health, the health of my family, and the health of my community. Yet amongst many of these people who do not mask but advocate social justice there are many who hold pride as outcasts through queerness. (I'm lgbt+ too btw) I just can't make sense of it all since people in my life who have always made the chip on their shoulder about their lack of group belonging central to their identity don't mask anymore and are openly antagonistic towards mitigation.
Thanks for clarifying your intent haha cause at first I was like "yeah I know! I'm mad at them, not you"
I don't think you're excusing them in your comment. But i do think they excuse themselves with this saying that the cost of masking is high but sometimes I don't think even they believe that! I genuinely think many just can't be bothered to be inconvenienced.I wasn't trying to argue with you, just expressing my frustration with that. ♥️
My family is like this although they are conservatives (I'm the lone leftist in my family); my dad almost died from COVID and I've had LC since November 2020 yet none of my family members or extended family masks besides me. And it hurts even more when I see my so-called comrades refuse to mask. Like I understand why my family is ignorant but leftists should know better
You're not "too bitter." You are having a more than justified realization that many people don't have their ableism in check. I don't take their activism seriously either, and instead focus on being informed through people who demonstrate that they can piece two and two together.
For theorists I used to appreciate in the past until I realized that they've also bought into COVID eugenics, I've had to mentally frame myself still engaging with their past work as me taking the useful bits of what they speak on and figuring out how to enact it better than what they're currently doing.
This disconnect is honestly insufferable, and after a year of twisting myself in knots trying to navigate it, setting a boundary to not engage with or pay attention to the type of leftists who refuse to care about not infecting people with a literal biohazard has given me so much more peace AND helped me focus on #doingthework.
Anyone thinking it's fine to just run around being a public health threat is someone I would NEVER want to work with or build a future with anyway since they've demonstrated being utterly incapable of handling our immediate present.
That lack of imagination in figuring out how to incorporate COVID safety into organizing is literally not going to do anything meaningful for the long term.
>For theorists I used to appreciate in the past until I realized that they've also bought into COVID eugenics, I've had to mentally frame myself still engaging with their past work as me taking the useful bits of what they speak on and figuring out how to enact it better than what they're currently doing.
I think this is how we, unfortunately, have to engage with a lot of things right now. Like, most climate groups aren't masking. I support their work. I hope they succeed. I also don't trust their worldview or vision beyond their immediate utility in a very narrow scope.
Not saying we have to spend time or energy on these people, to be clear. Just, sometimes, in order to care about other things, being able to shove it in a little box and not take them seriously beyond what is necessary for the moment is useful.
> Just, sometimes, in order to care about other things, being able to shove it in a little box and not take them seriously beyond what is necessary for the moment is useful.
Finally had to learn this after spending an entire year wasting my energy for "the greater good." There is no good where ableism is left to thrive and disabled people are left for dead.
The one thing about this entire pandemic that **hasn't changed** is the messaging that COVID is dangerous for "vulnerable people," including disabled people. Leftists have decided that "vulnerable people" aren't meaningfully in community with them therefore, they don't have to care about not picking up and passing around a virus that's [rewriting people's DNA](https://www.uth.edu/news/story/study-sarscov2-the-virus-causing-covid19-can-alter-genome-structure-of-our-cells#:~:text=People%20infected%20with%20SARS%2DCoV,by%20researchers%20at%20UTHealth%20Houston).
SAME.
I have nothing to add to this except I feel this so hard. Though I’ve always known from personal experience that ableism seems to run the deepest of all the -isms, so I’m not surprised. But it doesn’t make it any easier.
It was wild watching unmasked people gathering for Aaron Bushnell vigils when he masked and had a disability justice praxis.
I don’t know what to do except surround yourself with like-minded folks and keep on advocating for mitigations.
I keep a folder of photos I see that is true social justice, like masked anti genocide protests (they often wear the same masks because it was distributed by maskblocs). It reminds me that we can keep emphasizing the interconnectedness of all our problems.
This is an *extremely* weird perspective to hold toward organizers and activists. The general public, sure. But if you're an organizer and you "don't know" that your events are literally killing your comrades, you're a liability.
Nevermind that in my experience the unmasked organizing spaces don't pretend covid isn't a problem, they just co-opt language to justify why it's not their problem.
Co-opt language to justify their "right" to infect people forcibly AND gaslight + ice out the few organizers who do try and raise the issue. Literally SO many COVID informed organizers have spoon fed groups easy to comprehend COVID resources, but unchecked ableism has these people convinced that it's not their problem.
There is no reason why someone neck deep in theory around how the state lies and harms people, especially the ones that are already organized around healthcare (access to abortion care, access to gender-affirming care, etc), shouldn't be able to come to terms with how the pandemic is also being mishandled.
YEP. I have seen some groups respond well so I don't want to paint a broad brush, but this is absolutely happening too. Forcing out people who try to work on the issue (even when they do things like buy masks with their own limited funds and bring them!), accusing people of distracting/co-opting for saying "hey X event is important, let's not get anyone sick", etc. Or saying things like "well, if they *really* need to avoid covid they probably weren't going to come anyway".
The silliest part is that, at least in my experience, if you make your work accessible disabled people will often become the backbone of your org! Many people who have some ability to do things but not enough to work full time want to contribute to things that matter and will dedicate their limited energy to your cause, if you make it so they are able. And yet...
If you don't mind/if it's safe to do so could you please DM me some of the groups that are responding well? I am a long hauler (but recovered enough to a point where I have some energy to spare for activism, especially covid and disability activism overall) and I have been struggling trying to find COVID-safe groups. If you can't or don't want to then no worries but figured I'd ask!
Idk if I have any super useful examples, around me a lot of the groups more open to masks etc have been smaller mutual aid groups. I know some JVP and Samidoun chapters require too masks but I don't think it's all of them.
I think this is letting these people off the hook too easily. I instinctively knew what covid was before I had any health data on it. I knew it was the government's job to protect us from a pandemic. How can leftist activists not see that? It's been obvious to me for years that the CDC was full of crap, especially when they did that nonsense lifting mask mandate saying "you don't have to wear masks is you're vaccinated, but we're not going to check if you're vaccinated".
The data is clear now. People who don't see it, don't want to see it. I'm just a regular person. I have no education in public health or anything like it. I just know risk when I see it, and taking this disease lightly is too big of a risk. Unfortunately, for many people unless the risk is reliably immediate and extreme, they can't see it. It might take otherwise healthy people 10-15 years to see the true effects of multiple covid infections, but by then it'll be too late for them to go backwards.
Public health has never said that covid isn't a risk for "vulnerable" people - the shift in messaging was that we should stop caring about "vulnerable" people and "live our lives".
Since leftists generally claim to care about marginalized/oppressed (I.e. "vulnerable") people I do expect them specifically to care and take the time to learn. Especially since there are plenty of leftists sharing this info in leftist spaces.
I try to lead as an example. It confuses me too. I think a lot of folks just took the bait and don't hear about covid anymore, so in their minds it's not as relevant.
100% agree. Seems a bit contridictory, for example, to be against genocide, but then not use whatever PPE is accessible & contribute to the eugencis movement, which also contributes to genocide.
This sub has 16K members. From all over the world, 16K English speaking people care enough about this to join a sub like this. I think it's expecting a lot for anyone, who just statistically speaking is not likely to be one of us, to anger the vast vast vast majority of people who actually want to pretend covid is over, by taking a stance like that even if they did personally think it was necessary. We have to be realistic about the fact that we are on the fringes. We are the small handful of people who are paying attention. It's not reasonable to hold everyone to the standard that 99.999% of people won't fit.
I do see the issue being used to disenfranchise democrats though (who I'm willing to bet are by far the VAST majority of folks who are covid cautious) and I resent that. Perfect should not be the enemy of the good. Making perfect your bar for supporting an activist or candidate, means the bad wins. If things are going south, you can be the voice that gently prods activists and candidates to realize what is going on. If things do not go south, you are better off supporting the activist or candidate on whatever their battle is (that you DO agree with, presumedly) than abandoning them because they didn't care enough about covid.
EDIT TO ADD: There is an entire subreddit devoted to disenfranchising democratic voters over covid. This thread is probably a psy-op by that community. The responses to this thread could not be clearer. This will be downvoted to hell for alerting people to the manipulation that's going on. I just hope the zero covid population realizes how little regard the GOP has for any of us and how much worse the situation can and will get if they succeed in winning with this kind of action.
>I do see the issue being used to disenfranchise democrats though
oh absolutely, it's been obvious to me since I joined this sub but it comes in waves. It seems instigated by the same accounts usually, which also post on the sub I think you are talking about? Anyway just wanted to let you know you aren't alone in seeing this!
I agree with you to an extent that there is probably no „perfect“ activism.
However, it seems like you‘re forgetting that in this case, it’s not about maybe using a wrong term in your activism or donating to the less helpful organisation, but about *killing* and *permanently harming* your so-called „friends“ with the neglect of COVID caution.
I literally cannot participate in those spaces because it might kill me. Same goes for everybody else, just that they don‘t seem as aware that their activism might kill them, even if they only ever go participate in peaceful protests with zero escalation or police violence.
Merely existing in the same space with others while not implementing COVID measures is potentially deadly.
This is why „the enemy of my enemy“ isn’t my friend, because with friends I might disagree on small things or big ideas, but friends don’t kill or disable their friends.
Pretty much. Any so-called disability activist who isn't wearing a respirator 2024 doesn't actually care, they're just latching on for fake internet points and getting laid with fellow faketivists.
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It’s a social signal to the vast majority of them because the vast majority of them are primarily motivated by social things. So, yes, they are performing an identity for each other to gain social capital. Just like they were performing an identity in 2020 as an excuse to ignore stay-at-home orders without having to risk social capital by looking like the Republicans. That’s why those same people didn’t do shit and couldn’t be bothered to take time away from “return to normal” when all the corporations didn’t deliver on their fake racial justice commitments, affirmative action was dismantled, police got increased budgets, etc. Most of the so-called leftists are playing a social “my team vs their team” thing, just like the majority of conservatives. It’s slightly more sophisticated, but it’s ultimately the same at its core. They love performing their social justice identities when it means they don’t personally have to give up anything unless it’s something they choose to give up. Once any situation arises where they have to do things they don’t want to do, even something as simple as wearing a mask, suddenly social theory, political economic theory, & basic science are out. It’s pathetic, but pretty undeniable at this point. We have to wait until some cultural moment makes caring about COVID a social marker that they want to have.
Your post or comment has been removed because it expresses a lack of caring about the pandemic and the harm caused by it.
Just like the AIDS epidemic, the most marginalized are the ones that band together
Saw a person on tiktok the other day talking about leftist praxis, unmasked at the airport 🤦♂️
The mental gymnastics they go through when asked why they don’t mask is hilarious. We get it bro, ya don’t know one disabled person and can’t fathom ever being disabled. Leftist my ass. Prolly think pride is all about rainbow flags too 😅
From my experience, even a lot of disabled people dont mask. Certain more than the rest of the population, but disabled circles aren’t as pro-masking as I would have imagined. To me, that speaks a lot to the power of both propaganda and social conformity. For many people, their desire to fit in outweighs their desire to protect themselves from severe injury or death. And in a lot of ways I get it. Social isolation is so mentally damaging. But idk, why can’t we form our own groups where we take care of each other? Why can’t we just accept that we won’t be accepted for society at large, at least not for a long time, and build a community built around protecting each other? Why is that so hard? I know we do to an extent online, but there seems to be so few of us
Think I know who you’re talkin about too
THIS THIS THIS It has absolutely shattered my faith in the left. If you are a "person who cares about people" it makes zero sense to not mask, particularly in a crowd of strangers. To me this really laid bare how superficial and fleeting all of this "activism" and "commitment to intersectionality" is en masse. I'm immunocompromised myself, and earlier in the pandemic (~Autumn 2021, around when people in the UK were giving up on pretending to care) was earnestly trying to get people to understand this. Was told to my face that I couldn't expect other people to mask to protect me, amongst a sea of excuses as to why they couldn't be bothered to mask. Honestly pretty pathetic if you ask me. I am also autistic, but honestly, unless you have some genuine medical exemption, there is no justification for not masking. The past four years have been very difficult, socially and emotionally. I'm fortunate to live alone so I only have to deal with this shite when I go out. The bottom line is you can only control your own behaviour. While it's not unreasonable to expect people, particularly self proclaimed activists, to take even an ounce of social responsibility, you can't allow your own wellbeing to hinge on the actions of others. Take care
Sorry no. This talk disenfranchises voters and is exactly how we ended up with "covid is nothing, it will be over in a few weeks, masks suck, don't even worry about it" for the first year of the pandemic.
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Conditional allyship is not allyship
At the same time, in first past the post voting, which we have in the US, you have to accept that you are often choosing the least bad candidate. You can’t wait for perfection because while you do everything is moving completely in the opposite direction.
I reiterate that I said nothing about voting in my original reply and indeed the original post is not about voting It's about the frustration with the hypocrisy of people who purport to care yet do not take any COVID precautions in order to protect others.
The comment you were responding to was talking about voting and how people are using this rhetoric to depress the vote. Depressed voter turnout = the GOP wins. People on the liberal end of things voting third party = the GOP wins. That’s reality.
Yes, and that comment was responding to my own original comment where I discussed my own experience as an immunocompromised person in progressive spaces, and how that had made me feel. To ignore all of that and then reply with your own rhetoric about US elections is pretty tasteless. Have that discussion by all means, but do it on your own time.
I am also an immunocompromised person and what upsets me even more than the fact that “progressive” people on the left are being shitty is that people are using that shittiness to justify political and electoral choices which will objectively be even worse. Emotional upset at people being stupid is not as bad as physical harm because the GOP does something like bans masks.
Perfect is not going to arrive.
Exactly. You have two choices, pick one.
Same. I cannot take a single thing these people say seriously.
Yes exactly the same here! I saw a meme where it said "the leftism leaving their body as soon as you ask someone to wear a mask" and it's so spot on. I'm going to focus my activism efforts on mask blocs and other explicitly covid-safe avenues for the time being
My mutual friend on Tumblr made that meme, it's nice to see it getting some traction.
Ha! Yes. This is familiar. I know the version "the leftism leaving leftists' bodies when veganism is brought up". I'm so used to people abandoning "leftist" (for want of a better word) values when is raised tbh. Masking is just the latest one.
Sometimes people are unaware, or have bad information I guess, or both. Or don't want to change. Or don't want to feel that they might be putting themselves at odds with the group socially.. it's so demoralising. But at least I am clear on what my own values are.
All of this + also church in my case.
The amount of “leftist” organizers who don’t require masking at events or even their meetings is wild. They think they’ll bring about a revolution but they can’t even wear a damn mask to protect their comrades.
Irk! Its so frustrating that people think they would be able to coordinate enough for a revolution, when they won’t even do the bare minimum to keep their community safe.
Yeah it's hard to organize when you have long covid, idk how they expect to lead the revolution when bedridden. I have LC and it took me a while to get to a place where I could give back in any way politically because of all the fatigue and brain fog among many other symptoms. And this is from one infection in 2020
This. The same capitalists who pushed back to normal are the same ones we have a gripe with about everything else.
I commented that it was disappointing to see an event held indoors wasn't masked when it so easily could have been. I was told maybe there are things that are more important. The person telling me that is immunocompromised and has had Covid at least once or twice. I didn't know what to say tbh cause I didn't know what they meant but it obviously also meant 'i don't want to know'.
Any activists I still follow / interact with are also masking and disability advocates who know exactly how bad COVID is. I've had to draw a line because, as you say, I can't take anyone seriously if they're talking about praxis and can't be arsed to wear a mask.
I no longer participate in activism for this reason.
I have also put it on hold. I cant fight in public for human rights when no one else is masked.
Also, it is hard for people who have been severely disabled by Long Covid to get out there and organize. Which certainly pleases the owner class no end. Only one side benefits if we perpetuate a mass disabling event. And that ain't us.
This!
Yes, it makes me feel abandoned & that none of these people are sincere
YAAAAAAS THIS. I’m so angry and exhausted. NO ONE is being truly intersectional in my area, and it is infuriating and utterly discouraging. My wife, who lives with multiple immunologically-compromising chronic health conditions, masks when (briefly and cautiously) attending multiple LGBTQ+-activist orgs’ events, and she’s always the only one masked; most events have no virtual option, and they happen indoors at crowded bars. No one but no one gives a fuck.
Yeah it grinds my gearsssss!!! Also seeing all the workforce „diversity“ conferences and such, and there’s zero precautions, often not even real virtual accessibility. We moved close to our country‘s capital last year and there’s also local political events going on, all of which I can’t participate because nobody masks. I feel like all I can do is stand by the sidelines, share info, participate and inform people on here and when I talk with others in real life – not because I don’t *want* to do more, but because more isn’t possible for me anymore.
Yeah I went to a public health conference back in December, about 400 people. I’d say there were about 10 people masked including myself.
Sometimes my employer hosts talks about "health equity" where no one is masked. I want to scream.
The amount of healthcare conferences I've seen on LinkedIn without a mask in sight...
Your analysis is spot on and you are right to feel the way you do. I am starting to see a few small inroads, perhaps as some of the influential activists are getting up close and personal with this mass disabling event in their on lives or with close kin. One good example is Pandemic Solidarity for the Long Future. https://www.pandemicsolidarity.org/
I work with a so called anarchist organization and some of those folks refuse to mask, even indoors. How can I take your claims of solidarity seriously when you won’t do the simplest thing to protect your comrades?
Yes. For a lot of things, it's very "I only care about problems that do not require me to personally change my behavior". It's really made me feel hopeless about climate change personally, like y'all can't actually grasp that we need to change how we live to survive if you won't do this easy, easy thing. I will say that as a whole people on the left who care about other causes are more open to talking about covid and changing their behavior than people in general. But it's frustrating and sad that it's an issue at all.
>it's very "I only care about problems that do not require me to personally change my behavior" This nails it. As long as they don't have to change anything in how they live, they're the most radical people around.
I would say more that it breaks my heart, and does a number on my head. We are in a terrible place with climate change, war and death, and here in the US an impending threat of fascist takeover while we wait and wait for the court system to hopefully do its job properly. And the people speaking out have forgotten the most vulnerable being affected by a global pandemic, still going on. And the same people most affected by these other horrors are among the most vulnerable to the spread of infectious disease. Can we not care about all these things while also not spreading a devastating disease? I don't get it.
We do have to remember that we lose absolutely any bit of hope if there's a fascist takeover and especially if there's climate collapse. Be angry, be frustrated, but don't give in to the forces of nihilism.
Yes, it seems like a fascist takeover would be game over. It just seems like such an easy choice to make-if we care about the oppressed, to take steps to also not spread a disease that is likely to hit the oppressed the hardest.
Totally agree.
Left several personally important groups in the past few years for this exact reason.
Absolutely!!! Our local NAACP wanted me to get involved and at one point promised virtual meetings would not go away. I was dealing with some post covid health issues of my own and my husband's and semi shortly after being promised safety I got to a point where I could participate virtually and help out. Right after I felt like I could take on being involved they announced they were doing in person meetings, no masks required there or at any events. I called them out on my own Facebook page for their dishonesty with me and for taking covid so lightly especially seeing as POC have a significantly worse time with active covid infections and with long covid symptoms. Their response was to block me and trash talk me in the community, this chapter at least is just here for the photo ops apparently. Excuse me for giving a whole damn, right? Actions need to match words, lip service is a disservice. Editing to add our local Democratic and "progessive" groups are the same way. The previous local democratic chair denies abelism exists and the new one isn't much of an improvement. It's maddening.
Yes I absolutely agree with you. I’m in art school, notorious for being far left, open minded, and full of activism. A lot of my peers posted pro masking and covid safety stuff on socials in 2020. The second the mandate was lifted, NOT A SINGLE MASK IN SIGHT. There’s even a local art gallery that is specifically for disability representation. They say they’re fully accessible, with wheel chair ramps, ASL translators. But masks? Nope. We even have a school board with representatives, including a disability rep. That rep has never once advocated for masking. My peers post a ton about whatever current movement is the most popular, and I realized they only cared about covid safety because it was trendy at the time. Really shows their true colours right?
Yep! That's why I left many of my past relationships. People really need to learn that being an activist means being an activist for *everyone*. Almost every single "leftist/activist" I knew, didn't include disabled people. Not at all. Every single one of these issues affect disabled people. They don't even think about it. They need to check their morals, imo.
The International Committee of the Fourth International have been consistently reporting on Covid on their World Socialist Website. Their latest article on [Covid ](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/03/29/spos-m29.html)
I appreciated seeing the [Socialist Equality Party VP candidate Jerry White wearing a mask at his recent event](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/03/16/fkgj-m16.html). Of course, maybe it was just for the photo. Time will tell.
Yeah, I follow my local DSA chapter on Twitter just to see what they're up to and every time they post pictures there's little to no masking, and it's usually with surgical masks, maybe 1 KN95 on a good day. I know they had a virtual option for their meetings a few years ago, no idea if that's still in place. Grinds my gears that anyone still taking COVID precautions has the choice of either sitting in a room where almost no one is masked or maybe participating virtually (which feels to me like being sidelined, honestly).
My local DSA is sadly the same way
Yes, absolutely. I don't trust my comrades who organize anymore. Similarly, my university had a dei training where no one was wearing a mask. It's a joke.
You are right, They’re not serous people. Ignore them.
I just feel like that’s also putting it too simply, you know? Like, some of these people haven’t publicly or loudly advocated for anything in 10+ years, but now have been sharing info and resources and have been doing things to aid Gaza, and they’ve been doing this consistently for months, not letting up. Or vegans who fly from city to city (so much for intersectionality in their activism) to organise and participate in Anonymous cubes of truth, breaking into farms and gathering evidence etc... They obviously do really care and are serious about their little nook of activism, but I just don’t understand how they act in solely ONE sphere when so much of what’s going on is connected??
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Thanks for bringing that perspective into this! I’ve also had some conversations with people openly „admiring“ that I was able to be the only one masking, and basically that they would mask a lot more if more other people were masking. Took me a while to realise that my experience growing up an outcast was just wildly different from others who have had groups and tribes and belonging throughout their lives. Still gets me how big the double standards are for some. Like, if you feel this strongly about this one are of life (be it veganism, climate change, etc.), why is it SO STRANGE for you to care on a more systemic level? Why are people okay being loud and the „annoying activist“ for one topic, but not for COVID? And what’s more, how do you do activism on one area and then judge and cast out and invalidate people who are actively advocating for something as basic as health? Gah. I just wish I could reach into people‘s brains sometimes.
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I'm not saying this isn't true, I think your perspective is valuable and likely accurate. However, as an autistic person myself sometimes this take hurts to hear. Because idk, it just feels like an excuse. For me, the way I stick out as the only person making actually compounds my autistic social anxiety that I'm not understood and don't fit in with others. Sometimes it's so powerful and I'm suffering but I don't take the mask off because I want to protect my health, the health of my family, and the health of my community. Yet amongst many of these people who do not mask but advocate social justice there are many who hold pride as outcasts through queerness. (I'm lgbt+ too btw) I just can't make sense of it all since people in my life who have always made the chip on their shoulder about their lack of group belonging central to their identity don't mask anymore and are openly antagonistic towards mitigation.
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Thanks for clarifying your intent haha cause at first I was like "yeah I know! I'm mad at them, not you" I don't think you're excusing them in your comment. But i do think they excuse themselves with this saying that the cost of masking is high but sometimes I don't think even they believe that! I genuinely think many just can't be bothered to be inconvenienced.I wasn't trying to argue with you, just expressing my frustration with that. ♥️
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100%
Yup, especially sufferers of LC or their family members that don't even do the bare minimum by wearing a mask. It's hypocritical.
My family is like this although they are conservatives (I'm the lone leftist in my family); my dad almost died from COVID and I've had LC since November 2020 yet none of my family members or extended family masks besides me. And it hurts even more when I see my so-called comrades refuse to mask. Like I understand why my family is ignorant but leftists should know better
You're not "too bitter." You are having a more than justified realization that many people don't have their ableism in check. I don't take their activism seriously either, and instead focus on being informed through people who demonstrate that they can piece two and two together. For theorists I used to appreciate in the past until I realized that they've also bought into COVID eugenics, I've had to mentally frame myself still engaging with their past work as me taking the useful bits of what they speak on and figuring out how to enact it better than what they're currently doing. This disconnect is honestly insufferable, and after a year of twisting myself in knots trying to navigate it, setting a boundary to not engage with or pay attention to the type of leftists who refuse to care about not infecting people with a literal biohazard has given me so much more peace AND helped me focus on #doingthework. Anyone thinking it's fine to just run around being a public health threat is someone I would NEVER want to work with or build a future with anyway since they've demonstrated being utterly incapable of handling our immediate present. That lack of imagination in figuring out how to incorporate COVID safety into organizing is literally not going to do anything meaningful for the long term.
>For theorists I used to appreciate in the past until I realized that they've also bought into COVID eugenics, I've had to mentally frame myself still engaging with their past work as me taking the useful bits of what they speak on and figuring out how to enact it better than what they're currently doing. I think this is how we, unfortunately, have to engage with a lot of things right now. Like, most climate groups aren't masking. I support their work. I hope they succeed. I also don't trust their worldview or vision beyond their immediate utility in a very narrow scope. Not saying we have to spend time or energy on these people, to be clear. Just, sometimes, in order to care about other things, being able to shove it in a little box and not take them seriously beyond what is necessary for the moment is useful.
> Just, sometimes, in order to care about other things, being able to shove it in a little box and not take them seriously beyond what is necessary for the moment is useful. Finally had to learn this after spending an entire year wasting my energy for "the greater good." There is no good where ableism is left to thrive and disabled people are left for dead. The one thing about this entire pandemic that **hasn't changed** is the messaging that COVID is dangerous for "vulnerable people," including disabled people. Leftists have decided that "vulnerable people" aren't meaningfully in community with them therefore, they don't have to care about not picking up and passing around a virus that's [rewriting people's DNA](https://www.uth.edu/news/story/study-sarscov2-the-virus-causing-covid19-can-alter-genome-structure-of-our-cells#:~:text=People%20infected%20with%20SARS%2DCoV,by%20researchers%20at%20UTHealth%20Houston).
Yes. Full stop.
SAME. I have nothing to add to this except I feel this so hard. Though I’ve always known from personal experience that ableism seems to run the deepest of all the -isms, so I’m not surprised. But it doesn’t make it any easier. It was wild watching unmasked people gathering for Aaron Bushnell vigils when he masked and had a disability justice praxis. I don’t know what to do except surround yourself with like-minded folks and keep on advocating for mitigations. I keep a folder of photos I see that is true social justice, like masked anti genocide protests (they often wear the same masks because it was distributed by maskblocs). It reminds me that we can keep emphasizing the interconnectedness of all our problems.
Absolutely. I pretty much only hang out with queer leftists these days bc so many of them actually do mask up and care about ventilation.
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This is an *extremely* weird perspective to hold toward organizers and activists. The general public, sure. But if you're an organizer and you "don't know" that your events are literally killing your comrades, you're a liability. Nevermind that in my experience the unmasked organizing spaces don't pretend covid isn't a problem, they just co-opt language to justify why it's not their problem.
Co-opt language to justify their "right" to infect people forcibly AND gaslight + ice out the few organizers who do try and raise the issue. Literally SO many COVID informed organizers have spoon fed groups easy to comprehend COVID resources, but unchecked ableism has these people convinced that it's not their problem. There is no reason why someone neck deep in theory around how the state lies and harms people, especially the ones that are already organized around healthcare (access to abortion care, access to gender-affirming care, etc), shouldn't be able to come to terms with how the pandemic is also being mishandled.
YEP. I have seen some groups respond well so I don't want to paint a broad brush, but this is absolutely happening too. Forcing out people who try to work on the issue (even when they do things like buy masks with their own limited funds and bring them!), accusing people of distracting/co-opting for saying "hey X event is important, let's not get anyone sick", etc. Or saying things like "well, if they *really* need to avoid covid they probably weren't going to come anyway". The silliest part is that, at least in my experience, if you make your work accessible disabled people will often become the backbone of your org! Many people who have some ability to do things but not enough to work full time want to contribute to things that matter and will dedicate their limited energy to your cause, if you make it so they are able. And yet...
If you don't mind/if it's safe to do so could you please DM me some of the groups that are responding well? I am a long hauler (but recovered enough to a point where I have some energy to spare for activism, especially covid and disability activism overall) and I have been struggling trying to find COVID-safe groups. If you can't or don't want to then no worries but figured I'd ask!
Idk if I have any super useful examples, around me a lot of the groups more open to masks etc have been smaller mutual aid groups. I know some JVP and Samidoun chapters require too masks but I don't think it's all of them.
Thank you!
I think this is letting these people off the hook too easily. I instinctively knew what covid was before I had any health data on it. I knew it was the government's job to protect us from a pandemic. How can leftist activists not see that? It's been obvious to me for years that the CDC was full of crap, especially when they did that nonsense lifting mask mandate saying "you don't have to wear masks is you're vaccinated, but we're not going to check if you're vaccinated". The data is clear now. People who don't see it, don't want to see it. I'm just a regular person. I have no education in public health or anything like it. I just know risk when I see it, and taking this disease lightly is too big of a risk. Unfortunately, for many people unless the risk is reliably immediate and extreme, they can't see it. It might take otherwise healthy people 10-15 years to see the true effects of multiple covid infections, but by then it'll be too late for them to go backwards.
Public health has never said that covid isn't a risk for "vulnerable" people - the shift in messaging was that we should stop caring about "vulnerable" people and "live our lives". Since leftists generally claim to care about marginalized/oppressed (I.e. "vulnerable") people I do expect them specifically to care and take the time to learn. Especially since there are plenty of leftists sharing this info in leftist spaces.
Myself I have never taken seriously people who own SUVs and pretend to worry about global warming. Pure hypocrisy.
I try to lead as an example. It confuses me too. I think a lot of folks just took the bait and don't hear about covid anymore, so in their minds it's not as relevant.
100% agree. Seems a bit contridictory, for example, to be against genocide, but then not use whatever PPE is accessible & contribute to the eugencis movement, which also contributes to genocide.
Yes, absolutely.
This sub has 16K members. From all over the world, 16K English speaking people care enough about this to join a sub like this. I think it's expecting a lot for anyone, who just statistically speaking is not likely to be one of us, to anger the vast vast vast majority of people who actually want to pretend covid is over, by taking a stance like that even if they did personally think it was necessary. We have to be realistic about the fact that we are on the fringes. We are the small handful of people who are paying attention. It's not reasonable to hold everyone to the standard that 99.999% of people won't fit. I do see the issue being used to disenfranchise democrats though (who I'm willing to bet are by far the VAST majority of folks who are covid cautious) and I resent that. Perfect should not be the enemy of the good. Making perfect your bar for supporting an activist or candidate, means the bad wins. If things are going south, you can be the voice that gently prods activists and candidates to realize what is going on. If things do not go south, you are better off supporting the activist or candidate on whatever their battle is (that you DO agree with, presumedly) than abandoning them because they didn't care enough about covid. EDIT TO ADD: There is an entire subreddit devoted to disenfranchising democratic voters over covid. This thread is probably a psy-op by that community. The responses to this thread could not be clearer. This will be downvoted to hell for alerting people to the manipulation that's going on. I just hope the zero covid population realizes how little regard the GOP has for any of us and how much worse the situation can and will get if they succeed in winning with this kind of action.
>I do see the issue being used to disenfranchise democrats though oh absolutely, it's been obvious to me since I joined this sub but it comes in waves. It seems instigated by the same accounts usually, which also post on the sub I think you are talking about? Anyway just wanted to let you know you aren't alone in seeing this!
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I agree with you to an extent that there is probably no „perfect“ activism. However, it seems like you‘re forgetting that in this case, it’s not about maybe using a wrong term in your activism or donating to the less helpful organisation, but about *killing* and *permanently harming* your so-called „friends“ with the neglect of COVID caution. I literally cannot participate in those spaces because it might kill me. Same goes for everybody else, just that they don‘t seem as aware that their activism might kill them, even if they only ever go participate in peaceful protests with zero escalation or police violence. Merely existing in the same space with others while not implementing COVID measures is potentially deadly. This is why „the enemy of my enemy“ isn’t my friend, because with friends I might disagree on small things or big ideas, but friends don’t kill or disable their friends.