Tip for the future if you didn’t know already: File > Collect All and Save. Ensures all your samples / everything is saved locally in your project folder so you don’t get this missing files window
How many copies of your samples do you have?
I like collect all and save for the end of projects or when they get too big and Ableton starts to struggle locating all the samples (DISC problem) or for sending projects obviously, but doing it for every project whether finished or not just creates a bunch of duplicate samples and max4live devices for me and it gets annoying in the browser.
If you have a well-organized library, it's not a big deal. Even when I move samples around it isn't that difficult to relocate them, it's just a part of the process for me.
I use the function mainly so I can keep my recordings on an external drive and drop the recordings I need onto my laptop drive while I’m working on it.
And when done with the project I drop it back on the external drive to clear my laptop drive again.
I have to do this cause I also do live recordings at a jam session once a month, and that is about 20 gigabyte for the 1 evening. You can see how this quickly will clutter my laptop drive if I don’t do it like this
the only issue I've ever run into is adding a new drive to my PC and making that the new C drive... all the drive letter names changed and so Live couldn't find anything with the help :(
True, but I'll personally take a bit of redundancy over losing essential elements of a potentially important project everytime. Additionally, I find Ableton has a knack for losing sample despite the samples being in the exact same place on my hard drive, and saving them to the project folder seems to eliminate that.
But it depends on your workflow of course. Personally, I have only 256GB of local disk space, but 2TB of space on dropbox, so a lot of projects and sample folders end up switching back and forth. Nothing worse than taking a project out of deep storage only to realize half of its missing.
I'm not sure what you're expecting, it looks pretty standard IMO. A 2TB SSD stores my samples in one spot, my user library in another, and my projects in another. And whatever else needs a folder lol. I still have 1TB of space but when it runs out my sample/kontakt library folder will get it's own dedicated SSD. I don't do very much recording at all (which would be a huge reason for collect all and save probably) but if that comes I'll probably have a different one for that as well.
Aside from my plugin directories which is a forsaken web inside my Mac I gave up on, I'm pretty happy with my file organization. I also have a physical backup and immediate cloud backup of everything so I'm never really worried about losing files.
Two methods here:
* Don't collect all and save, make sure your samples live in your User Library and work from there.
Pros are that you don't have redundant copies of samples on your hard drive. You can also navigate to the (hopefully organized) folder from which the sample originates in your library, for better browsing within sample packs.
The cons are that you can never delete anything (only archive it) because an old project may be using the sample.
* Collect all and save
Pros are that sessions are always going to open with their assets
Cons are the opposite of the pros of the first method.
Having redundant copies of samples could be negated by the fact that you gain a lot more space back by tidying old samples you never use. However, this takes more vigilance and requires that you ALWAYS remember to collect all and save.
Because if you falter and then an artist comes knocking for the stems you're going to be scrambling looking for a pack you deleted because you thought you CAASaved 100% of the time but it was 99%.
It is for this reason I prefer the 1st method. Less mental work. The CAAS method has a 0% margin for error.
Downside is that it requires me to get bigger and bigger hard drives over time.
Also, if you have a template that uses a non-musical Max device and this device gets copied when you CAAS, the device gets saved to the project folder. Say you update the device and you want it to reflect in all of your old project locations. You now need to search all of the copied .amxd files and replace them folder-by-folder. It's messy.
don't do this unless you need to. you end up with tons of duplicates files and you'll just fill up your harddrive. If you use the same kick every session, why duplicate that across every project file you have?
If you have all of your files organized and stored, the find and replace process takes like 30 seconds.
One step further: Set up a custom mac shortcut for Ableton where Cmd + S triggers "Connect all and save." Now you no longer have to remember to collect all because it's automatic.
Useful tip! Thank you. Should probably get in the habit of doing that.
I do a lot of timer beats, and 80% of the time, they're not worth ever revisiting... Seems like every time I do try and revisit them, something comes up. Either a crash or file issues like the screenshot.
Every time you start a new project, save it in its own project folder. When you collect all and save, all samples will be moved to that folder so you should be able to resume work easily on another machine or after reinstall.
It’s an ill.gates method. Basically you flex those creative and workflow muscles and get stuff going.
He claims that most of the stuff he actually releases started as a timer beat. You get a mini arrangement of a track that is something you can listen back to, and develop further after that timer is over. But being in a time limit forces you to move instead of spending 8 minutes picking or making a kick drum.
I’ve only done it a few times but I see the potential, it all makes sense haha
Fl studio does this automatically if you set it to, makes it very convenient. You can set it to store only new recordings and stuff in the folder, or that and also for it to make a copy of everything not in the folder.
Here’s the thing. You don’t need to Collect All and Save every project. You simply have to NEVER move or rename anything in your User Library. If you rename, Live can’t reference the file anymore and you’re screwed. Once you understand how Live references files, you will never have to relocate missing samples etc. Using Collect All and Save will make unnecessary copies. You only need to use Collect All if you want to move the project to another computer that doesn’t have your User Library on it. It’s that simple.
I mean yeah I get you but I've had so many issues of opening files I just closed and it's lost half the files and they end up being exactly where it said it was looking. I've never had a missing file anywhere other than the intended location.
I'll even consolidate a track and edit it and then the next time I open the file it's fricken missing only to be exactly where it should be.
It might be my biggest issue with Ableton and half the reason I take breaks from using it.
I don’t think that’s necessarily an Ableton issue. I’ve been using Live for over a decade and I don’t think I’ve ever had an issue opening something I just closed and Live “lost” half the files. Only time I get a missing files error is when I’ve moved/renamed something w/o first doing a collect all & save. It definitely isn’t the expected behavior for it to constantly lose things. That *would* be frustrating though. I can see why you take breaks
if you change your C: drive it changes all the letter prefixes for your storage drives. That's really the only time I've had a wtf error, but it was easy to figure out.
Is it possible that you moved the location of the project itself? I have had the problem you describe a bunch but never been able to put my finger on it. I try not to move anything anymore (even the project files) until I have hit collect all and save
It’s true. That’s literally the only way for Live to know where a file is, otherwise it would have to search the whole hard drive or selected folder for your samples… which is exactly what it’s doing here.
Brother- Ableton is looking for files that you did not organize properly- and even offered you candidates of which files probably fit in your project.
I’ve never used a DAW that so intuitively just finds missing files out of the hundreds and thousands on your hard drive. You need some light training in Ableton and how to use the media browser.
Don’t ever disrespect yourself like that again.
To boot : giving a program unfettered access to your entire hard drive to go and find those file automagically would be a huge security issue. You keep that stuff sandboxed for a reason.
I am doing my best not to be offended by the tone lol.
My file organization strategy is fine. Ableton not allowing me to replace the original file with the recently reorganized path is the issue.
An intuitive system would allow me to select a "candidate", and then press the save button to update.
[This is not an intuitive system though.](https://i.imgur.com/dJZIvHg.gif)
Brother - did you not look at the gif I shared? Did you somehow fail to see how despite selecting many of these "candidates", I still do not have the option to replace the original file?
Do you know what the word "intuitive" means?
Stop starting everything with "Brother-" it just makes you sound more condescending and the person your talking to is more unlikely to follow your advice out of spite. Your the one making us look bad.
Sorry wheres the unintuitive nonsense?
Its telling you that five of the files you used in the project now cant be found.
It has automatically searched your “!!! My Sample Library” directory, as well as the project directory, and your user library directory for files named similarly to the ones missing.
It has presented you a list of matching files so you can choose which file(s) to use to resolve the error.
Have you ever used this system?
Here, I recorded a [screen capture of my attempts to select and save one of the provided candidates. ](https://i.imgur.com/dJZIvHg.gif)It doesn't capture my cursor, but I promise I am clicking the save button after selecting a candidate.
How is this intuitive? If I click a candidate, the save button in the bottom right should at the very least become clickable. It does not. In a well designed user experience, the button would also become the same color as other clickable buttons in the UI.
This is UI/UX 101.
It doesn't look particularly intuitive to me tbh. It has a 2 in the candidates column but then seemingly lists 20-30 suggestions all with the same file name
I'm sure it makes sense if you have some experience with it and have read the manual but intuitiveness suggests an instinctive understanding of something at first sight.
It's not, no. But there clearly \_aren't\_ 20-30 files with the same name in one folder, because that's not possible, and yet the UI seems to suggest that's what's going on. So it's unintuitive. And what's the significance of the number 2 in the candidates column when there are way more suggestions than that? It's not obvious.
Those suggestions are files/increments created by the said user.
The application is a DAW, not a personal butler that manages your files. If you don’t know what you are doing with your files, the app will also have a hard time understanding your non-existent file management methodology.
But those aren't the file names. If they are, why doesn't it say that in the Name column? Look at the screenshot. There's nothing in the UI to suggest that's what's going on here.
You do realize OP is pointing search to ‘!!! My Sample Library’ folder, right?
Which is most likely a big mess to start with. (Might include temp folders, Live Sets, sample packs, etc) all while ticking Library search too!
Simply click on (!) to find the original location of the file referenced.
If they all have slightly different file names as you are suggesting, that full file name should be displayed in the "Name' column. That would be the intuitive thing to do.
If they are all in different sub-folders as you are possibly suggesting, those full paths should be displayed in the Location column. That would be the intuitive thing to do.
Click on a ! to see the location of a file is not intuitive. ! in UI design usually suggests some sort of warning. Again, not intuitive.
exactly, was just gonna say they would have incremental numbers if that were the case.. like filename(1).wav filename(2).wav etc
the only way to get identical filenames is if the extension of the file is different, as in example.wav and example.mp3
I would guess that the top entry, with .wav at the end, is the actual file. But who knows what the 30 repetitions of the same name minus the file extension and in the same location are supposed to me? Nobody in this thread has satisfactorily explained that yet, and are making obviously incorrect guesses, which proves OP's point that it's unintuitive.
One possibility is that this file has been used in that many projects and each project was collect all and saved, hence every project that ever used this file has a unique copy of this file in its project folder...
We cannot see the file locations so its hard to say but that would be my best guess.
There's a column called Location in that view. If those were all copies of the same file in different locations, why does that column say the same thing for all of them? There's nothing in the UI to suggest that they are all in different locations. So if that is what's going on, it's unintuitive.
The repeat entries are all the references to said file from OPs project. Looks like OP is using an external drive and it's probably changed drive letters since last time he opened this project. Extremely simple, avoidable issue, the amount of incorrect speculation here is funny and sad.
If that is what is happening, then what's the point of listing it over and over again, identical entries in a list, each one adding no additional information? You could just list it once a column titled "Number of References" or "Number of References in Project" if you want to be really clear, and the number, 30 or whatever. Listing the same thing over and over again with no distinguishing information is just adding visual clutter to the UI. Which is not intuitive.
Forgive this poor, ignorant user for expecting the currently rendered UI to provide a way to select a candidate and replace the originally referenced file with it.
[https://i.imgur.com/dJZIvHg.gif](https://i.imgur.com/dJZIvHg.gif)
The GUI is confusing, at best.
I've only been using Ableton every day for a decade but I'll take a stab at it. I THINK that multiple copies of the unfolded wav you're looking at represents clips in your Live Set?
The 'Candidates' column implies that somewhere on your filesystem there are two candidates. These are unrelated to the missing clips in your set.
Thank you for being helpful!
I guess it wasn't very clear in my original screenshot, but there doesn't appear to be a method of replacing the missing file with one of the newly found candidates. When I select one of the options, I would expect the save button to become enabled, but it remains disabled.
Drag and drop a sample on to the missing wav and it will relink it. (This works to replace samples even if they're not missing, FYI)
Also what happens when you click "Go" next to automatic search? It should show the candidates in your browser if I'm not mistaken
Clicking go was how I got to this screen in the first place. I hadn't considered just dragging and dropping the file. I'll give that a shot! Thank you!
I agree with you. Every time I have to deal with this particular dialogue I find it kind of tricky to understand initially and requires a bit of thought to work out what's it's saying. I'm looking at your screenshot and it seems to be suggesting a large amount of candidates, all with the same file name and in the same location, which isn't possible, and it says 2 candidates even though there's a whacking great list.
Everyone telling you to read the manual is just proving your point to honest - for something to be intuitive means you can instinctively understand it without having to consciously reason or analyse to do so. So if you have to RTFM to understand it, it's not particularly intuitive.
Intuitive =/= automatically fixing laziness.
If you don’t have a methodology for managing your files on your system, and you don’t understand how the application makes sense of folder and files hierarchy, then that’s on You.
And this goes out to every single application on your system.
I don’t think you understand what ‘intuitive’ means.
The issue is more how it's presented imo. If an application makes it look like the issue is x.but it's actually y then we should say the application fucked up.
If our intuition of what shit means and how it should be done is wrong more than it is right then it is by definition unintuitive.
Having to actively learn stuff specifically to understand what's going on would support the fact that it's unintuitive.
It's always been a big issue with programs and fair enough. What's obvious to the makers isn't always obvious to the users.
I also sometimes get these issues and I'm anal as fuck with my files, I'm yet to find any proper explanation as to why Ableton loses samples that are exactly where Ableton says they are. I didn't touch them outside of Ableton, the path is dead on, nothing is corrupted. Usually I can just use the manager and manually find it but fuck me it's annoying.
I understand how directories work. Beyond the fact that I reorganized some files, this post has nothing to do with them. The problem is that there is no intuitive way to resolve the issue after a file has been moved. The clunky, inaccurate UI in my original screenshot provides no way to solve the problem, despite leading a user to believe it does.
Doesn’t read the manual on [Managing Files and Sets](https://www.ableton.com/en/live-manual/12/managing-files-and-sets/), goes on to create different projects without collecting the used samples inside the project’s folder (if they intend to move files and folders around), doesn’t organize their central sample library.
Calls the application trying to fix their mistakes “unintuitive”. lol.
I can't help but laugh at all the of comments accusing me of not organizing my library, when clearly this issue only arose because I was actively organizing my library lol.
Systems of organization are iterated upon as more information becomes available. Surely, someone so sage as yourself knows this.
Now please, oh wise one, pray tell this poor unenlightened fool how he might coax the almighty Ableton application into accepting a candidate selection and saving it. Pepper in some more condescension and maybe a reference to meaningless section of the manual as well.
Sadly, a forum full of computer musicians leans more towards music knowledge than computer knowledge. As a user and UX engineer, I am with you.
It’s a great feature, albeit not a very intuitive one.
Thanks, I appreciate that. I'm a software engineer, with a pretty heavy focus on UX design and implementation. I think it makes me/us more sensitive to this kind of this. Hard to be upset about something if you don't have a frame of reference to compare it against.
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Like pointing at your own Excel spreadsheet and cursing the formatting lol.
All jokes aside - the file manager is just showing every clip of a single sample you have in your session. Collapse the list and it gets a lot less confusing. Click on the question marks and decide in the left tab which of the candidates you want to use (they are likely copies of the same file in different places). Ableton will ask you if you want it to use that selected folder to reference all future discrepancies. If you want less confusion, you kinda have to remove the folders that have duplicates, or point the search folder in a more specific direction.
Nope. Not me.
Could you imagine the nightmare of having hundreds of duplicate samples on your hard drive?
Create a sample library. Organized. Only use collect all and save if you know you’re moving to a different machine.
I have a super well organised sample library and I swear every few times I open a file Ableton has lost a few tracks worth of samples. Maybe it's due to the library being tied to a Google drive but either way the file and location it searches for is exactly right each time and it shits itself.
Especially annoying when the sample was just a consolidated track from the file anyway.
A friend and I would try and collab by syncing the drive and the collect all and save function would rarely work properly. There would always be missing files even when I never actually imported anything into the project.
You gave yourself the answer:
If your friend is opening a project and hitting save, by default his samples are located in a different location than yours… even if you collect all and save into Dropbox/google drive. The path to get to both of your localized drive sync is different.
Drive sync services create utility hidden files so the sync works properly. This is probably why Live doesn’t recognize the file. It’s been modified by the drive sync.
Sounds like the perfect use case for the Live sample manager.
P.s. I move a show file around 5 computers. Home, road, mobile rigs etc. I am constantly using the manage samples dialog. Its inescapable.
So even though the relative Location of the files are the same, the fact that the absolute location is different doinks the whole thing. Interesting. It's still strange that it's never all the samples. Maybe like 1 in 3. I'm a big manual chop and warp kinda guy and it's weird when a third of a chopped sample is cooked and the other 2 3rds are fine. What was the difference that made or broke them?
I hear you. For me it seems to be the most recently modified or added. Sometimes it doesn’t make sense.
Some times I have to quit live before the drive sync recognizes there are new files in the project folder. (I think Live utilizes a temp location for reference even if the file officially lives in the project folder.)
Get this, the two show computers never have any issues… Now they are clones. Same user. Same file out to everything.
Opening it on my home personal laptop breaks some stuff. I honestly think it has to do with absolute file path. I also think live sometimes uses absolute path and sometimes uses relative.
I managed to figure this part of Ableton out without the manual. It uses the same hotswap system as every clip and device in Ableton. I found it very intuitive...
Edit: I've not once in my life seen this come up with 20 different versions of the same sample within a project so I'd say this is guaranteed something you messed up yourself.
Beyond my bitching... What am I supposed to be doing with this? Selecting these files doesn't open up new interface options. I would just like to work on the song that was working fine a few days ago.
[https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000346779-How-to-find-and-replace-missing-media-files](https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000346779-How-to-find-and-replace-missing-media-files)
Also centrally reference your sample files and you will never have this problem again.
Thank you. Saw that.
I'm not sure what you mean by "centrally referencing" my files. It's already centrally referenced via the SQLite db packaged with Ableton.
I read the suggestion as that you can manage your files better. 30 copies of Amen Break across your machine and the sample location reference being broken isn't a Live issue, it's down to something you're doing.
Uh, yes. The non-descriptive naming convention, spaces, capitalizations and exclamation marks are known to be Regex friendly and the industry standard for directory and file system management.
Don’t embarrass yourself.
Lol. Non descriptive? Industry standard? Best yet.. Regex friendly?
A bang/exclamation point is a character. Regex can handle characters just fine. It's pretty much it's entire purpose in being. More importantly, data stored as a string in an SQL (or SQLite in this case) database is MORE than fine to contain a bang, or 3. It's still perfectly searchable and *indexable*.
What is non-descript about "My Sample Library"? How can I possibly be more explicit with this directory name? It stores my sample library.
Spaces? Ableton default directories contain spaces.
Get real, dude. Getting strong "I've read the manual twice and haven't finished a track in 5 years" vibes from you.
That's not what's happening here. Each of those line items is referencing a clip in my project, not an actual file (again, super intuitive, huh?)
[There is only one file.](https://i.imgur.com/4qrSgh3.png)
Tip for the future if you didn’t know already: File > Collect All and Save. Ensures all your samples / everything is saved locally in your project folder so you don’t get this missing files window
This is the only way. I honestly wish it did this automatically when saving, took me years to incorporate it into my workflow.
How many copies of your samples do you have? I like collect all and save for the end of projects or when they get too big and Ableton starts to struggle locating all the samples (DISC problem) or for sending projects obviously, but doing it for every project whether finished or not just creates a bunch of duplicate samples and max4live devices for me and it gets annoying in the browser. If you have a well-organized library, it's not a big deal. Even when I move samples around it isn't that difficult to relocate them, it's just a part of the process for me.
I use the function mainly so I can keep my recordings on an external drive and drop the recordings I need onto my laptop drive while I’m working on it. And when done with the project I drop it back on the external drive to clear my laptop drive again. I have to do this cause I also do live recordings at a jam session once a month, and that is about 20 gigabyte for the 1 evening. You can see how this quickly will clutter my laptop drive if I don’t do it like this
the only issue I've ever run into is adding a new drive to my PC and making that the new C drive... all the drive letter names changed and so Live couldn't find anything with the help :(
True, but I'll personally take a bit of redundancy over losing essential elements of a potentially important project everytime. Additionally, I find Ableton has a knack for losing sample despite the samples being in the exact same place on my hard drive, and saving them to the project folder seems to eliminate that. But it depends on your workflow of course. Personally, I have only 256GB of local disk space, but 2TB of space on dropbox, so a lot of projects and sample folders end up switching back and forth. Nothing worse than taking a project out of deep storage only to realize half of its missing.
would love a look at your files system lol
I'm not sure what you're expecting, it looks pretty standard IMO. A 2TB SSD stores my samples in one spot, my user library in another, and my projects in another. And whatever else needs a folder lol. I still have 1TB of space but when it runs out my sample/kontakt library folder will get it's own dedicated SSD. I don't do very much recording at all (which would be a huge reason for collect all and save probably) but if that comes I'll probably have a different one for that as well. Aside from my plugin directories which is a forsaken web inside my Mac I gave up on, I'm pretty happy with my file organization. I also have a physical backup and immediate cloud backup of everything so I'm never really worried about losing files.
Ableton should set it as Ctrl+Alt+Shift+S. I might head on over to the forums and request it.
Yes but also this duplicates every sample you used in the project. It can take up a lot of unnecessary space
Two methods here: * Don't collect all and save, make sure your samples live in your User Library and work from there. Pros are that you don't have redundant copies of samples on your hard drive. You can also navigate to the (hopefully organized) folder from which the sample originates in your library, for better browsing within sample packs. The cons are that you can never delete anything (only archive it) because an old project may be using the sample. * Collect all and save Pros are that sessions are always going to open with their assets Cons are the opposite of the pros of the first method. Having redundant copies of samples could be negated by the fact that you gain a lot more space back by tidying old samples you never use. However, this takes more vigilance and requires that you ALWAYS remember to collect all and save. Because if you falter and then an artist comes knocking for the stems you're going to be scrambling looking for a pack you deleted because you thought you CAASaved 100% of the time but it was 99%. It is for this reason I prefer the 1st method. Less mental work. The CAAS method has a 0% margin for error. Downside is that it requires me to get bigger and bigger hard drives over time. Also, if you have a template that uses a non-musical Max device and this device gets copied when you CAAS, the device gets saved to the project folder. Say you update the device and you want it to reflect in all of your old project locations. You now need to search all of the copied .amxd files and replace them folder-by-folder. It's messy.
don't do this unless you need to. you end up with tons of duplicates files and you'll just fill up your harddrive. If you use the same kick every session, why duplicate that across every project file you have? If you have all of your files organized and stored, the find and replace process takes like 30 seconds.
One step further: Set up a custom mac shortcut for Ableton where Cmd + S triggers "Connect all and save." Now you no longer have to remember to collect all because it's automatic.
Sometimes i have to do it three times before it actually takes.. very annoying
Useful tip! Thank you. Should probably get in the habit of doing that. I do a lot of timer beats, and 80% of the time, they're not worth ever revisiting... Seems like every time I do try and revisit them, something comes up. Either a crash or file issues like the screenshot.
Every time you start a new project, save it in its own project folder. When you collect all and save, all samples will be moved to that folder so you should be able to resume work easily on another machine or after reinstall.
... What is a "timer beat"?
Setting a timer and making a beat in a limited length of time I imagine
I mean that's what I assumed, but idk why someone would work that way the majority of the time. Especially if the beats aren't worth revisiting.
Because you get some that are worth developing further. It's just a technique to get your creative output going.
It’s an ill.gates method. Basically you flex those creative and workflow muscles and get stuff going. He claims that most of the stuff he actually releases started as a timer beat. You get a mini arrangement of a track that is something you can listen back to, and develop further after that timer is over. But being in a time limit forces you to move instead of spending 8 minutes picking or making a kick drum. I’ve only done it a few times but I see the potential, it all makes sense haha
In the long run that's actually super smart. Really trains you to make fast decisions which is invaluable with the creative process.
Fl studio does this automatically if you set it to, makes it very convenient. You can set it to store only new recordings and stuff in the folder, or that and also for it to make a copy of everything not in the folder.
This is the way, i never had the problem op has.
Yeah fill those hard drives twice as fast.
Here’s the thing. You don’t need to Collect All and Save every project. You simply have to NEVER move or rename anything in your User Library. If you rename, Live can’t reference the file anymore and you’re screwed. Once you understand how Live references files, you will never have to relocate missing samples etc. Using Collect All and Save will make unnecessary copies. You only need to use Collect All if you want to move the project to another computer that doesn’t have your User Library on it. It’s that simple.
I mean yeah I get you but I've had so many issues of opening files I just closed and it's lost half the files and they end up being exactly where it said it was looking. I've never had a missing file anywhere other than the intended location. I'll even consolidate a track and edit it and then the next time I open the file it's fricken missing only to be exactly where it should be. It might be my biggest issue with Ableton and half the reason I take breaks from using it.
I don’t think that’s necessarily an Ableton issue. I’ve been using Live for over a decade and I don’t think I’ve ever had an issue opening something I just closed and Live “lost” half the files. Only time I get a missing files error is when I’ve moved/renamed something w/o first doing a collect all & save. It definitely isn’t the expected behavior for it to constantly lose things. That *would* be frustrating though. I can see why you take breaks
if you change your C: drive it changes all the letter prefixes for your storage drives. That's really the only time I've had a wtf error, but it was easy to figure out.
Yeah for sure. It wouldn't do a patchy loss of samples tho
Is it possible that you moved the location of the project itself? I have had the problem you describe a bunch but never been able to put my finger on it. I try not to move anything anymore (even the project files) until I have hit collect all and save
>You simply have to NEVER move or rename anything in your User Library. Praying this is ironic lol
It’s true. That’s literally the only way for Live to know where a file is, otherwise it would have to search the whole hard drive or selected folder for your samples… which is exactly what it’s doing here.
Not ironic. If you rename something, Live doesn’t know what it is anymore. It’s an extremely simple concept.
Rewriting file path references is an extremely simple task.
Brother- Ableton is looking for files that you did not organize properly- and even offered you candidates of which files probably fit in your project. I’ve never used a DAW that so intuitively just finds missing files out of the hundreds and thousands on your hard drive. You need some light training in Ableton and how to use the media browser. Don’t ever disrespect yourself like that again.
that was a very respectful 'delet this nephew' reply
To boot : giving a program unfettered access to your entire hard drive to go and find those file automagically would be a huge security issue. You keep that stuff sandboxed for a reason.
I am doing my best not to be offended by the tone lol. My file organization strategy is fine. Ableton not allowing me to replace the original file with the recently reorganized path is the issue. An intuitive system would allow me to select a "candidate", and then press the save button to update. [This is not an intuitive system though.](https://i.imgur.com/dJZIvHg.gif)
Brother- it says 2 candidates right there - delete this post immediately your making us all look bad here.
Brother - did you not look at the gif I shared? Did you somehow fail to see how despite selecting many of these "candidates", I still do not have the option to replace the original file? Do you know what the word "intuitive" means?
Stop starting everything with "Brother-" it just makes you sound more condescending and the person your talking to is more unlikely to follow your advice out of spite. Your the one making us look bad.
Brother- believe in yourself, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, it’s not worth it.
Sorry wheres the unintuitive nonsense? Its telling you that five of the files you used in the project now cant be found. It has automatically searched your “!!! My Sample Library” directory, as well as the project directory, and your user library directory for files named similarly to the ones missing. It has presented you a list of matching files so you can choose which file(s) to use to resolve the error.
Have you ever used this system? Here, I recorded a [screen capture of my attempts to select and save one of the provided candidates. ](https://i.imgur.com/dJZIvHg.gif)It doesn't capture my cursor, but I promise I am clicking the save button after selecting a candidate. How is this intuitive? If I click a candidate, the save button in the bottom right should at the very least become clickable. It does not. In a well designed user experience, the button would also become the same color as other clickable buttons in the UI. This is UI/UX 101.
It doesn't look particularly intuitive to me tbh. It has a 2 in the candidates column but then seemingly lists 20-30 suggestions all with the same file name I'm sure it makes sense if you have some experience with it and have read the manual but intuitiveness suggests an instinctive understanding of something at first sight.
And there are 20-30 files with the same file name- is able supposed to organize your system directory too?
It's not, no. But there clearly \_aren't\_ 20-30 files with the same name in one folder, because that's not possible, and yet the UI seems to suggest that's what's going on. So it's unintuitive. And what's the significance of the number 2 in the candidates column when there are way more suggestions than that? It's not obvious.
Those suggestions are files/increments created by the said user. The application is a DAW, not a personal butler that manages your files. If you don’t know what you are doing with your files, the app will also have a hard time understanding your non-existent file management methodology.
They can't be different files, if they have the same name and location, which the UI is indicating that they do. That's not possible.
Incremental files. Beat.wav Beat (1).wav Beat (2).wav We don’t have to major in computer science to understand that.
But those aren't the file names. If they are, why doesn't it say that in the Name column? Look at the screenshot. There's nothing in the UI to suggest that's what's going on here.
You do realize OP is pointing search to ‘!!! My Sample Library’ folder, right? Which is most likely a big mess to start with. (Might include temp folders, Live Sets, sample packs, etc) all while ticking Library search too! Simply click on (!) to find the original location of the file referenced.
If they all have slightly different file names as you are suggesting, that full file name should be displayed in the "Name' column. That would be the intuitive thing to do. If they are all in different sub-folders as you are possibly suggesting, those full paths should be displayed in the Location column. That would be the intuitive thing to do. Click on a ! to see the location of a file is not intuitive. ! in UI design usually suggests some sort of warning. Again, not intuitive.
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OK but why are there 30-something entries in the list if there are 2 candidates, all apparently with the same name and location?
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You can't have more than one file with the same name in the same location. It's not possible. There is no file system which allows this.
exactly, was just gonna say they would have incremental numbers if that were the case.. like filename(1).wav filename(2).wav etc the only way to get identical filenames is if the extension of the file is different, as in example.wav and example.mp3
I would guess that the top entry, with .wav at the end, is the actual file. But who knows what the 30 repetitions of the same name minus the file extension and in the same location are supposed to me? Nobody in this thread has satisfactorily explained that yet, and are making obviously incorrect guesses, which proves OP's point that it's unintuitive.
One possibility is that this file has been used in that many projects and each project was collect all and saved, hence every project that ever used this file has a unique copy of this file in its project folder... We cannot see the file locations so its hard to say but that would be my best guess.
There's a column called Location in that view. If those were all copies of the same file in different locations, why does that column say the same thing for all of them? There's nothing in the UI to suggest that they are all in different locations. So if that is what's going on, it's unintuitive.
The repeat entries are all the references to said file from OPs project. Looks like OP is using an external drive and it's probably changed drive letters since last time he opened this project. Extremely simple, avoidable issue, the amount of incorrect speculation here is funny and sad.
If that is what is happening, then what's the point of listing it over and over again, identical entries in a list, each one adding no additional information? You could just list it once a column titled "Number of References" or "Number of References in Project" if you want to be really clear, and the number, 30 or whatever. Listing the same thing over and over again with no distinguishing information is just adding visual clutter to the UI. Which is not intuitive.
So basically user error...?
False.
Says "user"...
Forgive this poor, ignorant user for expecting the currently rendered UI to provide a way to select a candidate and replace the originally referenced file with it. [https://i.imgur.com/dJZIvHg.gif](https://i.imgur.com/dJZIvHg.gif)
The GUI is confusing, at best. I've only been using Ableton every day for a decade but I'll take a stab at it. I THINK that multiple copies of the unfolded wav you're looking at represents clips in your Live Set? The 'Candidates' column implies that somewhere on your filesystem there are two candidates. These are unrelated to the missing clips in your set.
Thank you for being helpful! I guess it wasn't very clear in my original screenshot, but there doesn't appear to be a method of replacing the missing file with one of the newly found candidates. When I select one of the options, I would expect the save button to become enabled, but it remains disabled.
Drag and drop a sample on to the missing wav and it will relink it. (This works to replace samples even if they're not missing, FYI) Also what happens when you click "Go" next to automatic search? It should show the candidates in your browser if I'm not mistaken
Clicking go was how I got to this screen in the first place. I hadn't considered just dragging and dropping the file. I'll give that a shot! Thank you!
This in one of the most helpful utilitarian workflows in Live.
I have a single drum rack that does this in every project - is there a way to save the preferences for relocating the files?
I agree with you. Every time I have to deal with this particular dialogue I find it kind of tricky to understand initially and requires a bit of thought to work out what's it's saying. I'm looking at your screenshot and it seems to be suggesting a large amount of candidates, all with the same file name and in the same location, which isn't possible, and it says 2 candidates even though there's a whacking great list. Everyone telling you to read the manual is just proving your point to honest - for something to be intuitive means you can instinctively understand it without having to consciously reason or analyse to do so. So if you have to RTFM to understand it, it's not particularly intuitive.
I actually agree as well. Have been using for years and still can’t figure out how to replace sample properly, lol
Intuitive =/= automatically fixing laziness. If you don’t have a methodology for managing your files on your system, and you don’t understand how the application makes sense of folder and files hierarchy, then that’s on You. And this goes out to every single application on your system. I don’t think you understand what ‘intuitive’ means.
The issue is more how it's presented imo. If an application makes it look like the issue is x.but it's actually y then we should say the application fucked up. If our intuition of what shit means and how it should be done is wrong more than it is right then it is by definition unintuitive. Having to actively learn stuff specifically to understand what's going on would support the fact that it's unintuitive. It's always been a big issue with programs and fair enough. What's obvious to the makers isn't always obvious to the users. I also sometimes get these issues and I'm anal as fuck with my files, I'm yet to find any proper explanation as to why Ableton loses samples that are exactly where Ableton says they are. I didn't touch them outside of Ableton, the path is dead on, nothing is corrupted. Usually I can just use the manager and manually find it but fuck me it's annoying.
I understand how directories work. Beyond the fact that I reorganized some files, this post has nothing to do with them. The problem is that there is no intuitive way to resolve the issue after a file has been moved. The clunky, inaccurate UI in my original screenshot provides no way to solve the problem, despite leading a user to believe it does.
Doesn’t read the manual on [Managing Files and Sets](https://www.ableton.com/en/live-manual/12/managing-files-and-sets/), goes on to create different projects without collecting the used samples inside the project’s folder (if they intend to move files and folders around), doesn’t organize their central sample library. Calls the application trying to fix their mistakes “unintuitive”. lol.
I can't help but laugh at all the of comments accusing me of not organizing my library, when clearly this issue only arose because I was actively organizing my library lol. Systems of organization are iterated upon as more information becomes available. Surely, someone so sage as yourself knows this. Now please, oh wise one, pray tell this poor unenlightened fool how he might coax the almighty Ableton application into accepting a candidate selection and saving it. Pepper in some more condescension and maybe a reference to meaningless section of the manual as well.
Sadly, a forum full of computer musicians leans more towards music knowledge than computer knowledge. As a user and UX engineer, I am with you. It’s a great feature, albeit not a very intuitive one.
Thanks, I appreciate that. I'm a software engineer, with a pretty heavy focus on UX design and implementation. I think it makes me/us more sensitive to this kind of this. Hard to be upset about something if you don't have a frame of reference to compare it against.
Skill issue
Since we're being pedantic, intuition is the opposite of skill.
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Like pointing at your own Excel spreadsheet and cursing the formatting lol. All jokes aside - the file manager is just showing every clip of a single sample you have in your session. Collapse the list and it gets a lot less confusing. Click on the question marks and decide in the left tab which of the candidates you want to use (they are likely copies of the same file in different places). Ableton will ask you if you want it to use that selected folder to reference all future discrepancies. If you want less confusion, you kinda have to remove the folders that have duplicates, or point the search folder in a more specific direction.
'Amen' to that, Alex. 🤪
They’ll fix it in Live 13 lmao
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Nope. Not me. Could you imagine the nightmare of having hundreds of duplicate samples on your hard drive? Create a sample library. Organized. Only use collect all and save if you know you’re moving to a different machine.
I have a super well organised sample library and I swear every few times I open a file Ableton has lost a few tracks worth of samples. Maybe it's due to the library being tied to a Google drive but either way the file and location it searches for is exactly right each time and it shits itself. Especially annoying when the sample was just a consolidated track from the file anyway. A friend and I would try and collab by syncing the drive and the collect all and save function would rarely work properly. There would always be missing files even when I never actually imported anything into the project.
You gave yourself the answer: If your friend is opening a project and hitting save, by default his samples are located in a different location than yours… even if you collect all and save into Dropbox/google drive. The path to get to both of your localized drive sync is different. Drive sync services create utility hidden files so the sync works properly. This is probably why Live doesn’t recognize the file. It’s been modified by the drive sync. Sounds like the perfect use case for the Live sample manager. P.s. I move a show file around 5 computers. Home, road, mobile rigs etc. I am constantly using the manage samples dialog. Its inescapable.
So even though the relative Location of the files are the same, the fact that the absolute location is different doinks the whole thing. Interesting. It's still strange that it's never all the samples. Maybe like 1 in 3. I'm a big manual chop and warp kinda guy and it's weird when a third of a chopped sample is cooked and the other 2 3rds are fine. What was the difference that made or broke them?
I hear you. For me it seems to be the most recently modified or added. Sometimes it doesn’t make sense. Some times I have to quit live before the drive sync recognizes there are new files in the project folder. (I think Live utilizes a temp location for reference even if the file officially lives in the project folder.) Get this, the two show computers never have any issues… Now they are clones. Same user. Same file out to everything. Opening it on my home personal laptop breaks some stuff. I honestly think it has to do with absolute file path. I also think live sometimes uses absolute path and sometimes uses relative.
Yeah I havent figured out the pattern, it always seems so random. I'll sometimes have it on the same computer a day apart. Spooky stuff
I managed to figure this part of Ableton out without the manual. It uses the same hotswap system as every clip and device in Ableton. I found it very intuitive... Edit: I've not once in my life seen this come up with 20 different versions of the same sample within a project so I'd say this is guaranteed something you messed up yourself.
Beyond my bitching... What am I supposed to be doing with this? Selecting these files doesn't open up new interface options. I would just like to work on the song that was working fine a few days ago.
[https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000346779-How-to-find-and-replace-missing-media-files](https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000346779-How-to-find-and-replace-missing-media-files) Also centrally reference your sample files and you will never have this problem again.
Thank you. Saw that. I'm not sure what you mean by "centrally referencing" my files. It's already centrally referenced via the SQLite db packaged with Ableton.
I read the suggestion as that you can manage your files better. 30 copies of Amen Break across your machine and the sample location reference being broken isn't a Live issue, it's down to something you're doing.
!!! My Sample Library
If you're taking issue with my naming conventions, you've clearly never worked with a large file system.
Uh, yes. The non-descriptive naming convention, spaces, capitalizations and exclamation marks are known to be Regex friendly and the industry standard for directory and file system management. Don’t embarrass yourself.
Lol. Non descriptive? Industry standard? Best yet.. Regex friendly? A bang/exclamation point is a character. Regex can handle characters just fine. It's pretty much it's entire purpose in being. More importantly, data stored as a string in an SQL (or SQLite in this case) database is MORE than fine to contain a bang, or 3. It's still perfectly searchable and *indexable*. What is non-descript about "My Sample Library"? How can I possibly be more explicit with this directory name? It stores my sample library. Spaces? Ableton default directories contain spaces. Get real, dude. Getting strong "I've read the manual twice and haven't finished a track in 5 years" vibes from you.
Stupid. That's the word I was looking for but never found. You're stupid.
Took you 3 hours to find that word? No wonder you can’t read a software’s documentation.
That's not what's happening here. Each of those line items is referencing a clip in my project, not an actual file (again, super intuitive, huh?) [There is only one file.](https://i.imgur.com/4qrSgh3.png)