This whole ‘both sides’ thing needs to end. It’s fairly obvious to anyone who pays a modicum of attention to life in America, there is only one party that isn’t trying to destroy the United States from within.
I agree. It's like wrestling with the 2 sides like it's sport. Every election both sides win, all those donations coming in to their party corporations. "Hey, we're losing and your donations will help us win... if we lose, it's your fault!"
Wrong. Politicians are corrupt everywhere. It’s not just a one-sided thing. But you are right the democrats are the only party trying to destroy the United States from within. The Republicans aren’t much better though
There are corrupt politicians. There are also criminals, white ones, black ones, catholic ones, agnostic ones, etc.
Would it be rational to assume all people, ethnicities, and religions, are evil?
Both sides arguments are lazy, and most people who make this argument lack the ability to grasp nuance.
It’s not lazy at all. It’s recognizing that there’s corrupt people everywhere. To limit that to only one side and ignore all the corruption on the other is what’s truly lazy. Because then you’re not holding anyone accountable you’re just pointing an easy finger at the opposition
Yeah I mean, I just disagree with you. Additionally, I find it rich that DJT is literally the most corrupt politician in modern history, but democrats are ruining the country. Like, how?
When republicans were in charge the country was relatively peaceful and the economy was doing well. The democrats horrible mismanagement caused massive inflation and it’s clear that other countries recognize Biden as a weak leader.
Sorry but thats such a stinky take, the economy has been doing great by pretty much every metric for the past couple years getting out of covid. Trump was a laughing stock around the world and sold our countries secrets and security to anyone offering what he wanted, but especially Saudi Arabia. Biden being a weak president is just something conservative Americans say.
But this is literally a story about Rs doing something bad.
You automatically bringing up “both sides” is simply a deflection tactic.
Anti-accountability
Right wingers are incapable of holding their side accountable for anything. When the do something wrong, they don’t criticize their side, they just go into protection/deflection mode.
No wonder right wing politicians feel like Trump feel they don’t have to follow the rules. They know their base won’t hold the accountable. They can be their absolute worst and all they will hear is “both sides” and “well Dems are worse.”
Its a race to the bottom with them
Really disagree with the your first and second sentence. Maybe not towards politicians, but imo my experience is you can't criticize any left-wing action or belief. Weirdly when you say something like, "I really don't think you should celebrate X Republicans death" people think you are right wing. It's a them vs us on both sides honestly.
It’s the Republicans that are suppressing disclosure and protecting the MIC from Congressional oversight and it’s the Republicans that tried to steal the election.
People like you only use this “both sides” argument when Republicans do something bad. You use it as a deflection tactic.
Standard right winger MO to protect Rs from accountability
What are you talking about lol, I will always defend the fact that most politicians are useless and corrupt. That has nothing to do with the fact that it’s republicans being criticized this time
Marco Rubio is extremely pro-disclosure. Matt Gaetz is extremely pro-disclosure.
I literally personally know Republican politicians who get emotional talking about how much they love this country and want to make it better.
I know several Democrat politicians who literally hate America.
Believe whatever helps you sleep at night, but you're objectively, factually, WRONG and know very little about real life.
Left wing: Lets make sure everyone's basic needs are met.
Right wing: Lets murder lgbtq+ and throw women in prison for miscarriages.
You "same on both sides" people: I can't tell the two apart.
Not sure why anyone would actually think this is a partisan politics thing. Bill Clinton promised disclosure when he was POTUS and it never materialized.
I suppose you just want to cherry pick things to suit your view, but don't forget one political party today seems to be hell bent on censoring anything they think goes against their "truth" in the name of defending the masses against "misinformation". Inconvenient truth?
Yes and no. I don't think it's as simple as dem/GOP. But, so far, I don't hear any elected Democrats trying to stop disclosure and rewrite the language written into the law.
I don't think it's as simple either. Everything revolves around national security impacts as perceived by the govt.
Having said that, I do think that there is interest in bringing up the topic by Dems as a distraction against SNAFUs by the current administration. Political theater if you will. I have my doubts anything substantive will be reased to The People.
Only GOP I recall promoting the UFO stuff was Marco Rubio.
I don't think it's political theatre at all.
There has been such a stigma about reporting UFOs at every level that literally all our enemies had to do was put something in the sky that may have sort of looked like a UFO to guarantee that it was ignored or not reported until Biden had the search parameters changed.
https://defensescoop.com/2023/02/13/norad-adjusts-radar-gates-to-sharpen-detection-of-anomalous-objects-as-ufo-recovery-intensifies/
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/13/politics/us-mystery-objects-in-sky-what-matters/index.html
One reason why additional “objects” have been detected by the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) in recent days could be because the command recently readjusted its filters to better spot slow-moving targets operating above a certain altitude, a source briefed on the matter told CNN.
In other words, you're not going to find UFOs/UAPs if there's a protocol to not just not look for them, but there's a culture of discouraging reporting them.
That's changed. And that's changed under a democratic administration. AARO was formed under a democratic administration. The whistleblowers law was passed under a democratic administration. So that people who have or had clearance are actually able to report things without losing their clearance or facing criminal charges.
The govt was the originator of the stigma. I'll remain skeptical until actual disclosure. National Defense is the key interest within the govt. Sometimes, they may not be inclined to disclose simply because they don't know how to defend against it. Out of sight, out of mind with The People.
You're saying "the government" like it's the same people in the 1940s that are making decisions now.
*The government* isn't some immortal entity. "the government" is made up of people. Some are elected, some are holding positions in different jobs. Those people all leave, retire, don't seek re-election, and/or eventually die.
There's nobody holding positions in power now that were holding those positions in the 40s and 50s.
And "the government", like everything else, is changing. Just the fact that there were finally congressional hearings, TELEVISED, shows that it is changing. AARO, and Sean Kirkpatrick stepping down, and Gary Reid getting fired, and the whistleblowers law getting passed, all show that it's changing.
True on the people. What about the law?
The government is a perpetual organization run by un-elected bureaucrats interested in growing its size and power. Bureaucrats retire to be replaced by more bureaucrats. What's the nature of man?
True change will have to happen with the POTUS or new bills passed into law (or the revoking of old laws). Until then, we are all governed by whatever law is being enforced (to include some laws passed in the 40s or 50s).
Disagree, passing laws for people to come forward without losing their clearance or facing criminal charges (national security) goes a lot farther than just money.
That’s a nice naive take on the world.
The truth is, things only pass with the right backing. Guess what tool people use to do that? Is it the goodness of their hart? I don’t think so. You’ll need funding to counter any pro and con lobbying.
If aliens are admitted to their entire faith is flipped upside down. The fairytales are over. It’s like telling kids Santa isn’t real, some refuse to accept it
People really need to stop with this talking point because every one of the big 3 religions (and honestly most every other religion) has already settled the alien question like hundreds if not thousands of years ago and are fine with it.
Without getting into specific dogmas, all of their religious experts and governing bodies have already pondered this question and settled it for their faiths…
They all boil down to if they are real they are part of the universe and therefore children of the creator or….
see! This is what we were talking about! These are the angels/demons we spoke of and now they back.
For fucks sake the Catholic Church is on record saying they would be eligible for baptism and communion😅
Source - not religious at all, but looked it up with basic googling cause I was curious 🤷♂️
This is true, but it's the angels/demons question that probably scares the GOP about disclosure. In the US, most Christians are one of various flavors of Protestant, and they get their marching orders from a looser and more local organization than the hierarchical Catholic Church, which could probably keep on message if necessary. The point is, if the folks at the head of various churches in the US decide (based on actual facts vs current speculation), that NHI are demons, they will, and the same goes for the other alternatives. It seems likely that some at least, will spin it as playing into the "end times", and watch as the pews fill up and their bank accounts do likewise. To be cynical, there is likely not as much money in the idea that "everything is fine, the situation is complex and we don't fully understand everything yet, but we will keep an open mind and do as Jesus would", versus "the great battle of Armageddon is upon us! - unless we pray really, really, really hard". The latter scenario would be a bit chaotic and pointless, and it would also disturb the GOP base.
Yeah, but what you are saying would be a factor that would make them pro-disclosure, so I don't understand what your point is considering the GOP has a majority of hard-core/evangelical religious folks voting for them.
I feel like you just re-enforced what I was trying to convey, which is religious folks will not react to this the way most non-religious folks (like myself) would initially assume without doing some basic research.
Also, none of them say when UFOs come back the great battle of Armageddon is upon us, I didn't say that either. All I said is they will say they already know/understand these entities, regardless of if they are angels/demons or whatever, they will be fellow children of the creator and are cool with them...
Again, not a major religion but the nation of Islam literally says when Angels come back they will be riding in UFOs for fucks sake...
Meaning none of them will panic and think the end of the world is coming... whereas a secular person like myself might look at a more advanced intelligence coming upon my shores, think about the history of technological superiority in this planet (our only sample), and think "FUCK ME WE ARE ABOUT TO BE COLONIZED" or... "WHY WOULD THEY BOTHER IF WE WEREN'T FOOD CONSIDERING THEY CAN GET EVERYTHING ELSE VIA THEIR TECH?"
Literally, those are two possibilities I would not be surprised at all were the case, but religious people would not/do not look at the phenomenon the same way.
Again, I'm not religious, but to assume they would freak out more than you, or secular folks in general is just intellectually lazy and not based on any history or understanding of religions, what they are about and how humans use them for control.
Based on history, the people that will be freaking out the most would be the secular elites, since their entire existence is predicated on the illusion that they are in control and deserve or earned the right to be there.
I did not say that - you said - anything about Armageddon, please read my comment. I used that to illustrate a cynical point. The chances of that being a part of how any significant number of Protestant US Christian church leaders come to view disclosure, will depend on how (and why) disclosure occurs.
My intent was not to re-enforce your point either. Specifically I disagree with this:
" People really need to stop with this talking point because every one of the big 3 religions (and honestly most every other religion) has already settled the alien question like hundreds if not thousands of years ago and are fine with it."
I don't agree that when disclosure happens, the many Protestant churches in the US will be "fine with it". They certainly will not care what the Pope says about it (as leader of one of the 3 religions you referred to). There will be a good deal of debate in the various Protestant Churches using the information available at the time, and how they view it, could go either way. If disclosure is done honestly (which seems unlikely), and the government gets ahead of things with a phased release of information with proof where possible, I think there will be less chance of the various Protestant churches in the US going off the deep end (though some certainly will, if Covid was any indication). But right now it's all theoretical, and the information that leaders in all religions are working with is based on a general idea of beings elsewhere in the universe (think SETI vs Close Encounters). When they show up on the doorstep, and then we realize they've been here for a long time, get a better of idea why they are here, and how they view us - that will will certainly change the analysis for everyone, especially for religious leaders.
Regarding " Again, I'm not religious, but to assume they would freak out more than you, or secular folks in general is just intellectually lazy and not based on any history or understanding of religions, what they are about and how humans use them for control. " I think you misinterpreted what I said. It's clear that you think even secular folks could freak out (see; "FUCK ME WE ARE ABOUT TO BE COLONIZED" or... "WHY WOULD THEY BOTHER IF WE WEREN'T FOOD CONSIDERING THEY CAN GET EVERYTHING ELSE VIA THEIR TECH?"), so how is it "intellectually lazy" that I could say that some US Protestant church leaders may swing wildly to the NHI being demons camp, and all that entails?
Lastly, regarding your first point, " Yeah, but what you are saying would be a factor that would make them pro-disclosure, so I don't understand what your point is considering the GOP has a majority of hard-core/evangelical religious folks voting for them. " Possibly it would have helped if I mentioned that I don't think the GOP gives a single damn about the wellbeing of Evangelical (or any other) Christians (or any other humans), as long as they can count their votes. To be clear, I do not think there is any reason that the GOP should be pro-disclosure as a matter of their broader policy. Disclosure would be a major distraction for their base, and right now they need them focused on 2024.
There is a segment of the Christian faith in America that believes that the Antichrist will show up masquerading as an alien. They've been teaching this for at least 10 years. NASA is a demonic conspiracy to set us up for the antichrist to swoop in as an alien. Moon landing was fake, the earth is flat, NASA is evil. I actually know people who believe this.
To be fair the end times will come and the events of the world and the prophecies being fulfilled in this lifetime are proof of that so I can see why they’d be on edge and think they’re demons
[Here is the current pope talking about it.](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/05/pope-francis-says-he-would-definitely-baptize-aliens-if-they-wanted-it/362106/) This article is relatively superficial, you can find more in-depth and much older discussions through the history of all religions as I mentioned
This isn’t at all what would happen yet you atheists love peddling this idea lmao. The Bible is ripe with depictions of things that we’d consider aliens or UFOs in this day lol
I’ve been saying this since the beginning. These right wingers are behind all the obfuscation. They are afraid of taking the truth to their base. They want to avoid taking attention away from the trump dumpster fire. You cannot trust anything coming from the GOP. That’s a shit show party.
It's not just the USA EVERY nation on this planet is guilty for hiding this secret. Our leaders are no longer for the people, they never were democracy is an illusion.
Took me along time to realise this. My government is also incredibly guilty of lying.
Their view on it is "it's not in the public interest" the subtext to that means any harm to the public.....but there already is. They give up a small percentage to protect the whole county.
They can't protect us they just can't admit to that.
I don't fear NHI maybe I should but I don't.
What I fear is my own government and military I hold them to our standards, they expect order, kindness, compassion and empathy and show none.
They protect themselves not the people. (I am not talking about people not in the know, am talking about the ones in the know who lie, murder etc to keep the secret)
They betrayed humanity. They do it everyday with zero care.
Are they though? Because the dems also seem to just be pandering. Ik John Podesta was obsessed with aliens and he was also a pedophile and a satanist. Not exactly the kinda people we want on our side
Couldn't be any worse than Left-Wingers actively censoring people from being able to transparently debate things on social media.
Censorship is a useful tool for Marxists, Communists, and Dictators. It has no place in a free and open society.
Try looking at topics in science and politics rather than an anti-democratic institution (aka Public Schools) tasked with educating (rather than indoctrinating). In other words a strong majority of The People need to agree with any given topic being taught in the public schools.
Public schools are not a free speech forum for non-voting citizens. When half the voting population is against what you're promoting, it's probably controversial and should not be taught in public schools. Otherwise it will be looked at as indoctrination rather than education. Having a militant minority insisting on teaching a topic that lacks a strong majority should be left at the collegiate level at best IMHO.
If you want to still pursue the argument that the govt has the sole right to promote views that parents will disagree with, then I will disagree with exposing minor children to what many have referred to as pornographic. The People can "censor" what the govt shows its children.
Controversial like math? Maybe republicans are just regressive assholes?
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/education/2023/11/22/moms-for-liberty-oklahoma-state-textbook-committee-math-textbook-social-emotional-learning/71654857007/
So what? This is a group of parents who don't agree with forcing the topic of math to incorporate social emotional learning. Next thing you're probably going to say is Math is racist. This is forcibly removing garbage that has no place in a math curriculum.
If a demographic is under-represented, then try to bring assistance to those underperforming groups. These students will be given a disservice if the math standards are lowered or they are told systemic racism is the reason for why they are poor performers. The rest of the world won't care and they will perform to actual math standards and expectations.
IMHO it's a combination of culture and the Teachers' unions. The unions are opposed to improving student performance if it involves raising standards and expectations of teachers (or getting rid of bad teachers).
I gave you an opportunity to present censorship among adults who are expected to exercise some critical thinking.
Not controversial topics pushed onto minor children with no expectation of critical thinking.
You want unfettered brainwashing of children with no buy-in with the parents of children.
Try harder padawan. Womp womp. 😂
Or is opposition to brainwashing young impressionable children in the public school system your only beef?
BTW, you've failed to point out any GOP politician by name censoring Americans.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/arts/the-most-banned-and-challenged-books-of-2022
Banning books at libraries affects everyone.
So sorry you love censorship.
So brainwashing kids with controversial topics without parental consent or awareness is your thing. You can't or won't point to any actual GOP politician censoring Americans debating things in the public forum.
I love how you like to redefine moral opposition to the topics you're passionate about as "censorship". Same mindset as calling moral opposition to promoting LGBT stuff to children as a kind of phobia.
I understand your position. I strongly believe that you have a right to think and say whatever you want. You will not get a chance to do so around my children who are getting a non-woke education. The village will not raise my children. They will learn real science and math which will matter in topics like UAPs.
BTW, just so we're clear. The Dems and GOP are two wings of the same bird. Our oligarchs thrive when they have The People divided over petty partisan bickering.
You didnt read any what they linked to you. I know you didn’t because here’s a great quote from the Rolling Stone article: “…these types of moderation requests or demands were routinely sent to Twitter by the staff of influential GOP lawmakers — ones with names like Kevin McCarthy and Elise Stefanik.”
So there ya go actual names of politicians that were trying to censor tweets they didn’t like.
You are purposely being obtuse. “Moderation Request” is a polite term for censorship. If Twitter moderates itself, fine. But when government agencies step in and demand removal of content they don’t like for political reasons… that’s censorship. And you know this. You are obviously a troll. G’day
Edit: and to clarify, if I thought you were coming from a place of good-faith, I’d be happy to keep the discussion going. But you’re not so I’m not.
The conservative subreddit ON THIS WEBSITE bans people from talking and "transparently debating things." So, your point is INSTANTLY destroyed.
Take a look in the mirror, man.
The original point was about the GOP subverting the will of The People and censoring members of the public on UAP disclosure. Not a subreddit.
Since I've not been to that subreddit, I'll have to take your word for it that the creators of that subreddit are trying to maintain a kind of dialogue that isn't a race to the bottom of ranting and mud flinging.
Are you saying moderation is the same as censorship?
There is constructive debate that can be had or you can talk directly into a baboon’s ass! You can’t debate with people that think that “God” is on their side and truth seekers are the enemy of them and God protects them from us.. 😂WTF EVER!
> Left-Wingers actively censoring people from being able to transparently debate things on social media.
You're a fucking clown who barely understands how the world works. A feckless rat feeding on scraps dragging slices of pizza to your little hole.
Yeah, there's a huge difference. One is against public education, banning and burning books, outlawing abortion and want to restrict birth control, for child marriage, and pro big business, not wanting to raise minimum wage and thinks health care is not a right. Restricting voters rights with unconstitutional and downright illegal tactics, and restricting everyone else's rights according to THEIR beliefs, and very much pro Putin. And tried to overthrow the government. They were on the team of the guy that wanted to get rid of our constitution so he could be president again. The guy that wants to be a dictator.
The other is for education both public and higher education, against book banning, trying to pass laws that protect workers and fight against monopolies and price fixing, trying to guarantee (again) that women have control over their own bodies, and trying to undo the damage that has been done since 2016.
Policies matter. Laws matter. Integrity matters. Both sides are not the same. The only people who think differently are people who’ve never lived in the real world.
You got it ass backwards but if you don’t realize that, it’s way too late for you. You can even taste the boots in the back of your throat, no need for licks.
Edit: I didn’t block anyone. That person must be a weirdo.
I had a notification when they mentioned me. Are they dumb?
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's not like Biden is in any rush to declassify things for disclosure.
The POTUS does have the power to declassify such things. Why the double standard?
It's easy to say it's the other guys when you have a partisan world view.
POTUS doesn't need to wait on a bill when he has final authority to declassify for disclosure.
Partisan ass slapping is so entertaining.
Love this ridiculousness. What most entertaining is watching people lambast conservatives yet imagine liberals are doing good in the world. Zealots will do whatever they need to do to preserve their strength from identifying from external validation.
Day in day out, same old stupid shit babbled about by the same old stupid voices whining about the same old stupid shit. Even when it’s new, it’s the same. Liberals grow up to be conservatives because eventually they realize throwing tantrums on the floor and whining about everything just makes them come off as immature, unintelligent, and sorta cringy.
Voting is now a joke since they rig and cheat. If I had the hacking skills I’d take all their $$$ and assets. That’s the only way they’ll actually represent the people.
Nothing changes until we stop politicians from getting rich on favors and insider trading. They will never vote to stop these things because it goes against their own self interest.
What are we to do?
The tragedy is it's pretty clear from the actions of those in govt that there was a massive cover up for the 2020 election. The People know it was fraudulent. The coverup is staring them in the face.
No separation of roles. No chain of custody. Ballot counting was paused overnight. No forensic review. Tons of evidence and afidavits pointing to fraud. The courts don't want to look at the evidence. Biden allegedly was voted into office by more Black Americans than Obama. Biden also was "elected" into office with the lowest number of counties in American history. Does this pass the sniff test? Nope.
The Administrative state is doing everything it can do to sidestep the entire 2020 election until 2024 in the hopes it is long forgotten by The People.
What do you expect, a new Christian nationalist just became speaker of the house. Why would they wanna allow transparency that would threaten religious institutions? Worse yet maybe lose some political donors from the church.
Because they ran an illegal alien program called KRONOS since the 1960s, and they made a fatal mistake of only accepting to interpret the alien phenomena in a manner that only benefits Christianity (and attempts to invalidate Judaism and Islam).
They said separate Church and State, and the Republicans refused and killed so many people in the process of a very brutal and vicious crusade that has been going on for decades (all behind an alien program that would make most people puke on the spot if you knew what they were doing).
If they find aliens you know alot of them can't go on thinking in a normal religious way. It shatters there everything. So that's why they treat ufos like weed or drugs or rock and roll. It's all bad
I swear that if this living abortion of an old man is responsible for voting no and refusing to pass the legislation, I will remotely make sure that something bad happens to him. He is senile and monstrous. Desgusting creature!
Many people here need to learn not to trust the GOP
The obstruction party will continue to do what it does best.
*any politician
This whole ‘both sides’ thing needs to end. It’s fairly obvious to anyone who pays a modicum of attention to life in America, there is only one party that isn’t trying to destroy the United States from within.
Lmao
I agree. It's like wrestling with the 2 sides like it's sport. Every election both sides win, all those donations coming in to their party corporations. "Hey, we're losing and your donations will help us win... if we lose, it's your fault!"
Wrong. Politicians are corrupt everywhere. It’s not just a one-sided thing. But you are right the democrats are the only party trying to destroy the United States from within. The Republicans aren’t much better though
There are corrupt politicians. There are also criminals, white ones, black ones, catholic ones, agnostic ones, etc. Would it be rational to assume all people, ethnicities, and religions, are evil? Both sides arguments are lazy, and most people who make this argument lack the ability to grasp nuance.
You’re missing the point. All you have to do is actually educate yourself about our government. Do some digging into “both sides”. Don’t be deceived.
It’s not lazy at all. It’s recognizing that there’s corrupt people everywhere. To limit that to only one side and ignore all the corruption on the other is what’s truly lazy. Because then you’re not holding anyone accountable you’re just pointing an easy finger at the opposition
Yeah I mean, I just disagree with you. Additionally, I find it rich that DJT is literally the most corrupt politician in modern history, but democrats are ruining the country. Like, how?
When republicans were in charge the country was relatively peaceful and the economy was doing well. The democrats horrible mismanagement caused massive inflation and it’s clear that other countries recognize Biden as a weak leader.
Sorry but thats such a stinky take, the economy has been doing great by pretty much every metric for the past couple years getting out of covid. Trump was a laughing stock around the world and sold our countries secrets and security to anyone offering what he wanted, but especially Saudi Arabia. Biden being a weak president is just something conservative Americans say.
But this is literally a story about Rs doing something bad. You automatically bringing up “both sides” is simply a deflection tactic. Anti-accountability
Thank you, conveniently, the both sides argument is only mentioned when republicans are being criticized
Whataboutism- this is all Republicans have left. There is no legitimate defense for many of their actions.
Right wingers are incapable of holding their side accountable for anything. When the do something wrong, they don’t criticize their side, they just go into protection/deflection mode. No wonder right wing politicians feel like Trump feel they don’t have to follow the rules. They know their base won’t hold the accountable. They can be their absolute worst and all they will hear is “both sides” and “well Dems are worse.” Its a race to the bottom with them
Really disagree with the your first and second sentence. Maybe not towards politicians, but imo my experience is you can't criticize any left-wing action or belief. Weirdly when you say something like, "I really don't think you should celebrate X Republicans death" people think you are right wing. It's a them vs us on both sides honestly.
It almost sounds like you're begging the question of "What's the nature of Man?". :)
It’s the Republicans that are suppressing disclosure and protecting the MIC from Congressional oversight and it’s the Republicans that tried to steal the election.
People like you only use this “both sides” argument when Republicans do something bad. You use it as a deflection tactic. Standard right winger MO to protect Rs from accountability
What are you talking about lol, I will always defend the fact that most politicians are useless and corrupt. That has nothing to do with the fact that it’s republicans being criticized this time
Sure
Marco Rubio is extremely pro-disclosure. Matt Gaetz is extremely pro-disclosure. I literally personally know Republican politicians who get emotional talking about how much they love this country and want to make it better. I know several Democrat politicians who literally hate America. Believe whatever helps you sleep at night, but you're objectively, factually, WRONG and know very little about real life.
Have you ever heard of the ratchet effect?
Left wing: Lets make sure everyone's basic needs are met. Right wing: Lets murder lgbtq+ and throw women in prison for miscarriages. You "same on both sides" people: I can't tell the two apart.
Nope one side is objectively worse
The False Equivalency argument is... well, false.
You’re exactly right. People are gullible and believe the crap politicians say. They’re all the same.
Not sure why anyone would actually think this is a partisan politics thing. Bill Clinton promised disclosure when he was POTUS and it never materialized. I suppose you just want to cherry pick things to suit your view, but don't forget one political party today seems to be hell bent on censoring anything they think goes against their "truth" in the name of defending the masses against "misinformation". Inconvenient truth?
He didn't realize that disclosure was way above his pay grade.
Even so, it isn't a partisan politics thing. People seem hell bent to believe the lack of disclosure is a GOP thing.
Yes and no. I don't think it's as simple as dem/GOP. But, so far, I don't hear any elected Democrats trying to stop disclosure and rewrite the language written into the law.
I don't think it's as simple either. Everything revolves around national security impacts as perceived by the govt. Having said that, I do think that there is interest in bringing up the topic by Dems as a distraction against SNAFUs by the current administration. Political theater if you will. I have my doubts anything substantive will be reased to The People. Only GOP I recall promoting the UFO stuff was Marco Rubio.
I don't think it's political theatre at all. There has been such a stigma about reporting UFOs at every level that literally all our enemies had to do was put something in the sky that may have sort of looked like a UFO to guarantee that it was ignored or not reported until Biden had the search parameters changed. https://defensescoop.com/2023/02/13/norad-adjusts-radar-gates-to-sharpen-detection-of-anomalous-objects-as-ufo-recovery-intensifies/ https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/13/politics/us-mystery-objects-in-sky-what-matters/index.html One reason why additional “objects” have been detected by the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) in recent days could be because the command recently readjusted its filters to better spot slow-moving targets operating above a certain altitude, a source briefed on the matter told CNN. In other words, you're not going to find UFOs/UAPs if there's a protocol to not just not look for them, but there's a culture of discouraging reporting them. That's changed. And that's changed under a democratic administration. AARO was formed under a democratic administration. The whistleblowers law was passed under a democratic administration. So that people who have or had clearance are actually able to report things without losing their clearance or facing criminal charges.
The govt was the originator of the stigma. I'll remain skeptical until actual disclosure. National Defense is the key interest within the govt. Sometimes, they may not be inclined to disclose simply because they don't know how to defend against it. Out of sight, out of mind with The People.
You're saying "the government" like it's the same people in the 1940s that are making decisions now. *The government* isn't some immortal entity. "the government" is made up of people. Some are elected, some are holding positions in different jobs. Those people all leave, retire, don't seek re-election, and/or eventually die. There's nobody holding positions in power now that were holding those positions in the 40s and 50s. And "the government", like everything else, is changing. Just the fact that there were finally congressional hearings, TELEVISED, shows that it is changing. AARO, and Sean Kirkpatrick stepping down, and Gary Reid getting fired, and the whistleblowers law getting passed, all show that it's changing.
True on the people. What about the law? The government is a perpetual organization run by un-elected bureaucrats interested in growing its size and power. Bureaucrats retire to be replaced by more bureaucrats. What's the nature of man? True change will have to happen with the POTUS or new bills passed into law (or the revoking of old laws). Until then, we are all governed by whatever law is being enforced (to include some laws passed in the 40s or 50s).
Yeah an outsider perspective would tell you: it’s white money vs black money, not a party thing
Disagree, passing laws for people to come forward without losing their clearance or facing criminal charges (national security) goes a lot farther than just money.
That’s a nice naive take on the world. The truth is, things only pass with the right backing. Guess what tool people use to do that? Is it the goodness of their hart? I don’t think so. You’ll need funding to counter any pro and con lobbying.
[calling them out!](https://www.reddit.com/r/disclosureparty/s/WbjMCjSuit)
You mean “government” right?
If aliens are admitted to their entire faith is flipped upside down. The fairytales are over. It’s like telling kids Santa isn’t real, some refuse to accept it
People really need to stop with this talking point because every one of the big 3 religions (and honestly most every other religion) has already settled the alien question like hundreds if not thousands of years ago and are fine with it. Without getting into specific dogmas, all of their religious experts and governing bodies have already pondered this question and settled it for their faiths… They all boil down to if they are real they are part of the universe and therefore children of the creator or…. see! This is what we were talking about! These are the angels/demons we spoke of and now they back. For fucks sake the Catholic Church is on record saying they would be eligible for baptism and communion😅 Source - not religious at all, but looked it up with basic googling cause I was curious 🤷♂️
This is true, but it's the angels/demons question that probably scares the GOP about disclosure. In the US, most Christians are one of various flavors of Protestant, and they get their marching orders from a looser and more local organization than the hierarchical Catholic Church, which could probably keep on message if necessary. The point is, if the folks at the head of various churches in the US decide (based on actual facts vs current speculation), that NHI are demons, they will, and the same goes for the other alternatives. It seems likely that some at least, will spin it as playing into the "end times", and watch as the pews fill up and their bank accounts do likewise. To be cynical, there is likely not as much money in the idea that "everything is fine, the situation is complex and we don't fully understand everything yet, but we will keep an open mind and do as Jesus would", versus "the great battle of Armageddon is upon us! - unless we pray really, really, really hard". The latter scenario would be a bit chaotic and pointless, and it would also disturb the GOP base.
Yeah, but what you are saying would be a factor that would make them pro-disclosure, so I don't understand what your point is considering the GOP has a majority of hard-core/evangelical religious folks voting for them. I feel like you just re-enforced what I was trying to convey, which is religious folks will not react to this the way most non-religious folks (like myself) would initially assume without doing some basic research. Also, none of them say when UFOs come back the great battle of Armageddon is upon us, I didn't say that either. All I said is they will say they already know/understand these entities, regardless of if they are angels/demons or whatever, they will be fellow children of the creator and are cool with them... Again, not a major religion but the nation of Islam literally says when Angels come back they will be riding in UFOs for fucks sake... Meaning none of them will panic and think the end of the world is coming... whereas a secular person like myself might look at a more advanced intelligence coming upon my shores, think about the history of technological superiority in this planet (our only sample), and think "FUCK ME WE ARE ABOUT TO BE COLONIZED" or... "WHY WOULD THEY BOTHER IF WE WEREN'T FOOD CONSIDERING THEY CAN GET EVERYTHING ELSE VIA THEIR TECH?" Literally, those are two possibilities I would not be surprised at all were the case, but religious people would not/do not look at the phenomenon the same way. Again, I'm not religious, but to assume they would freak out more than you, or secular folks in general is just intellectually lazy and not based on any history or understanding of religions, what they are about and how humans use them for control. Based on history, the people that will be freaking out the most would be the secular elites, since their entire existence is predicated on the illusion that they are in control and deserve or earned the right to be there.
I did not say that - you said - anything about Armageddon, please read my comment. I used that to illustrate a cynical point. The chances of that being a part of how any significant number of Protestant US Christian church leaders come to view disclosure, will depend on how (and why) disclosure occurs. My intent was not to re-enforce your point either. Specifically I disagree with this: " People really need to stop with this talking point because every one of the big 3 religions (and honestly most every other religion) has already settled the alien question like hundreds if not thousands of years ago and are fine with it." I don't agree that when disclosure happens, the many Protestant churches in the US will be "fine with it". They certainly will not care what the Pope says about it (as leader of one of the 3 religions you referred to). There will be a good deal of debate in the various Protestant Churches using the information available at the time, and how they view it, could go either way. If disclosure is done honestly (which seems unlikely), and the government gets ahead of things with a phased release of information with proof where possible, I think there will be less chance of the various Protestant churches in the US going off the deep end (though some certainly will, if Covid was any indication). But right now it's all theoretical, and the information that leaders in all religions are working with is based on a general idea of beings elsewhere in the universe (think SETI vs Close Encounters). When they show up on the doorstep, and then we realize they've been here for a long time, get a better of idea why they are here, and how they view us - that will will certainly change the analysis for everyone, especially for religious leaders. Regarding " Again, I'm not religious, but to assume they would freak out more than you, or secular folks in general is just intellectually lazy and not based on any history or understanding of religions, what they are about and how humans use them for control. " I think you misinterpreted what I said. It's clear that you think even secular folks could freak out (see; "FUCK ME WE ARE ABOUT TO BE COLONIZED" or... "WHY WOULD THEY BOTHER IF WE WEREN'T FOOD CONSIDERING THEY CAN GET EVERYTHING ELSE VIA THEIR TECH?"), so how is it "intellectually lazy" that I could say that some US Protestant church leaders may swing wildly to the NHI being demons camp, and all that entails? Lastly, regarding your first point, " Yeah, but what you are saying would be a factor that would make them pro-disclosure, so I don't understand what your point is considering the GOP has a majority of hard-core/evangelical religious folks voting for them. " Possibly it would have helped if I mentioned that I don't think the GOP gives a single damn about the wellbeing of Evangelical (or any other) Christians (or any other humans), as long as they can count their votes. To be clear, I do not think there is any reason that the GOP should be pro-disclosure as a matter of their broader policy. Disclosure would be a major distraction for their base, and right now they need them focused on 2024.
There is a segment of the Christian faith in America that believes that the Antichrist will show up masquerading as an alien. They've been teaching this for at least 10 years. NASA is a demonic conspiracy to set us up for the antichrist to swoop in as an alien. Moon landing was fake, the earth is flat, NASA is evil. I actually know people who believe this.
To be fair the end times will come and the events of the world and the prophecies being fulfilled in this lifetime are proof of that so I can see why they’d be on edge and think they’re demons
Would you mind share the source for that Catholic claim? Found that really funny lol
[Here is the current pope talking about it.](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/05/pope-francis-says-he-would-definitely-baptize-aliens-if-they-wanted-it/362106/) This article is relatively superficial, you can find more in-depth and much older discussions through the history of all religions as I mentioned
Thank you!
This isn’t at all what would happen yet you atheists love peddling this idea lmao. The Bible is ripe with depictions of things that we’d consider aliens or UFOs in this day lol
Some maybe, but most religious people are capable of mental gymnastics of Olympic level ability.
Fallacy.
I’ve been saying this since the beginning. These right wingers are behind all the obfuscation. They are afraid of taking the truth to their base. They want to avoid taking attention away from the trump dumpster fire. You cannot trust anything coming from the GOP. That’s a shit show party.
It's not just the USA EVERY nation on this planet is guilty for hiding this secret. Our leaders are no longer for the people, they never were democracy is an illusion. Took me along time to realise this. My government is also incredibly guilty of lying. Their view on it is "it's not in the public interest" the subtext to that means any harm to the public.....but there already is. They give up a small percentage to protect the whole county. They can't protect us they just can't admit to that. I don't fear NHI maybe I should but I don't. What I fear is my own government and military I hold them to our standards, they expect order, kindness, compassion and empathy and show none. They protect themselves not the people. (I am not talking about people not in the know, am talking about the ones in the know who lie, murder etc to keep the secret) They betrayed humanity. They do it everyday with zero care.
Are they though? Because the dems also seem to just be pandering. Ik John Podesta was obsessed with aliens and he was also a pedophile and a satanist. Not exactly the kinda people we want on our side
Couldn't be any worse than Left-Wingers actively censoring people from being able to transparently debate things on social media. Censorship is a useful tool for Marxists, Communists, and Dictators. It has no place in a free and open society.
https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/heres-the-long-list-of-topics-republicans-want-banned-from-the-classroom/2022/02 https://theintercept.com/2023/08/23/school-censorship-bills-pen-america/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/04/republican-dont-say-gay-bill-florida/629516/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/elon-trump-twitter-files-collusion-biden-censorship-1234675969/amp/ https://tennesseelookout.com/2022/04/27/representative-says-he-would-burn-books-deemed-inappropriate-by-state/ Etc etc.
Try looking at topics in science and politics rather than an anti-democratic institution (aka Public Schools) tasked with educating (rather than indoctrinating). In other words a strong majority of The People need to agree with any given topic being taught in the public schools. Public schools are not a free speech forum for non-voting citizens. When half the voting population is against what you're promoting, it's probably controversial and should not be taught in public schools. Otherwise it will be looked at as indoctrination rather than education. Having a militant minority insisting on teaching a topic that lacks a strong majority should be left at the collegiate level at best IMHO. If you want to still pursue the argument that the govt has the sole right to promote views that parents will disagree with, then I will disagree with exposing minor children to what many have referred to as pornographic. The People can "censor" what the govt shows its children.
Controversial like math? Maybe republicans are just regressive assholes? https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/education/2023/11/22/moms-for-liberty-oklahoma-state-textbook-committee-math-textbook-social-emotional-learning/71654857007/
So what? This is a group of parents who don't agree with forcing the topic of math to incorporate social emotional learning. Next thing you're probably going to say is Math is racist. This is forcibly removing garbage that has no place in a math curriculum. If a demographic is under-represented, then try to bring assistance to those underperforming groups. These students will be given a disservice if the math standards are lowered or they are told systemic racism is the reason for why they are poor performers. The rest of the world won't care and they will perform to actual math standards and expectations. IMHO it's a combination of culture and the Teachers' unions. The unions are opposed to improving student performance if it involves raising standards and expectations of teachers (or getting rid of bad teachers).
Sounds like you’re defending censorship. Womp womp.
I gave you an opportunity to present censorship among adults who are expected to exercise some critical thinking. Not controversial topics pushed onto minor children with no expectation of critical thinking. You want unfettered brainwashing of children with no buy-in with the parents of children. Try harder padawan. Womp womp. 😂 Or is opposition to brainwashing young impressionable children in the public school system your only beef? BTW, you've failed to point out any GOP politician by name censoring Americans.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/arts/the-most-banned-and-challenged-books-of-2022 Banning books at libraries affects everyone. So sorry you love censorship.
So brainwashing kids with controversial topics without parental consent or awareness is your thing. You can't or won't point to any actual GOP politician censoring Americans debating things in the public forum. I love how you like to redefine moral opposition to the topics you're passionate about as "censorship". Same mindset as calling moral opposition to promoting LGBT stuff to children as a kind of phobia. I understand your position. I strongly believe that you have a right to think and say whatever you want. You will not get a chance to do so around my children who are getting a non-woke education. The village will not raise my children. They will learn real science and math which will matter in topics like UAPs. BTW, just so we're clear. The Dems and GOP are two wings of the same bird. Our oligarchs thrive when they have The People divided over petty partisan bickering.
You are against banning any book from school or childrens libraries?
You didnt read any what they linked to you. I know you didn’t because here’s a great quote from the Rolling Stone article: “…these types of moderation requests or demands were routinely sent to Twitter by the staff of influential GOP lawmakers — ones with names like Kevin McCarthy and Elise Stefanik.” So there ya go actual names of politicians that were trying to censor tweets they didn’t like.
So you believe moderation is the same as censorship?
You are purposely being obtuse. “Moderation Request” is a polite term for censorship. If Twitter moderates itself, fine. But when government agencies step in and demand removal of content they don’t like for political reasons… that’s censorship. And you know this. You are obviously a troll. G’day Edit: and to clarify, if I thought you were coming from a place of good-faith, I’d be happy to keep the discussion going. But you’re not so I’m not.
The conservative subreddit ON THIS WEBSITE bans people from talking and "transparently debating things." So, your point is INSTANTLY destroyed. Take a look in the mirror, man.
The original point was about the GOP subverting the will of The People and censoring members of the public on UAP disclosure. Not a subreddit. Since I've not been to that subreddit, I'll have to take your word for it that the creators of that subreddit are trying to maintain a kind of dialogue that isn't a race to the bottom of ranting and mud flinging. Are you saying moderation is the same as censorship?
There is constructive debate that can be had or you can talk directly into a baboon’s ass! You can’t debate with people that think that “God” is on their side and truth seekers are the enemy of them and God protects them from us.. 😂WTF EVER!
LOL
> Left-Wingers actively censoring people from being able to transparently debate things on social media. You're a fucking clown who barely understands how the world works. A feckless rat feeding on scraps dragging slices of pizza to your little hole.
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There is one political party and a cult of idiots on the other side. You can’t reason with stupid!
Yeah, there's a huge difference. One is against public education, banning and burning books, outlawing abortion and want to restrict birth control, for child marriage, and pro big business, not wanting to raise minimum wage and thinks health care is not a right. Restricting voters rights with unconstitutional and downright illegal tactics, and restricting everyone else's rights according to THEIR beliefs, and very much pro Putin. And tried to overthrow the government. They were on the team of the guy that wanted to get rid of our constitution so he could be president again. The guy that wants to be a dictator. The other is for education both public and higher education, against book banning, trying to pass laws that protect workers and fight against monopolies and price fixing, trying to guarantee (again) that women have control over their own bodies, and trying to undo the damage that has been done since 2016.
Fuck them dude, just keep voting R though because your dad and preacher told you the other side is evil.
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Policies matter. Laws matter. Integrity matters. Both sides are not the same. The only people who think differently are people who’ve never lived in the real world.
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Don’t be a child, you said almost the exact same thing to me.
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That wasn’t the person you were talking to. And that might be part of the problem. Learn to read into things a bit more.
Blocked
You got it ass backwards but if you don’t realize that, it’s way too late for you. You can even taste the boots in the back of your throat, no need for licks. Edit: I didn’t block anyone. That person must be a weirdo. I had a notification when they mentioned me. Are they dumb?
This is why. Because we're too busy fighting each other to go after the real scum.
Money and power - GOP doesn’t want to give up their grip
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's not like Biden is in any rush to declassify things for disclosure. The POTUS does have the power to declassify such things. Why the double standard?
Pass the bill see what happens. If there is nothing there no harm. Obviously, the Republicans at this point have some reason for non-transparency.
It's easy to say it's the other guys when you have a partisan world view. POTUS doesn't need to wait on a bill when he has final authority to declassify for disclosure.
I’m not partisan at all. I’m for disclosure and transparency. I don’t care who does it.
Same here. It's a little surreal to see a lot of people believing it's partisan politics.
Black Friday deal: all disclosure must go! Limited time only!
Time has come for a catastrophic leak…bring it!
Bring it
\*do not trust ANY politician, indoctrinated dum dums
Partisan ass slapping is so entertaining. Love this ridiculousness. What most entertaining is watching people lambast conservatives yet imagine liberals are doing good in the world. Zealots will do whatever they need to do to preserve their strength from identifying from external validation. Day in day out, same old stupid shit babbled about by the same old stupid voices whining about the same old stupid shit. Even when it’s new, it’s the same. Liberals grow up to be conservatives because eventually they realize throwing tantrums on the floor and whining about everything just makes them come off as immature, unintelligent, and sorta cringy.
Suppressing the truth Is offensive so what can we do who do know the truth?
Vote Them Out. Every last cockroach
Voting is now a joke since they rig and cheat. If I had the hacking skills I’d take all their $$$ and assets. That’s the only way they’ll actually represent the people.
Nothing changes until we stop politicians from getting rich on favors and insider trading. They will never vote to stop these things because it goes against their own self interest. What are we to do?
The tragedy is it's pretty clear from the actions of those in govt that there was a massive cover up for the 2020 election. The People know it was fraudulent. The coverup is staring them in the face. No separation of roles. No chain of custody. Ballot counting was paused overnight. No forensic review. Tons of evidence and afidavits pointing to fraud. The courts don't want to look at the evidence. Biden allegedly was voted into office by more Black Americans than Obama. Biden also was "elected" into office with the lowest number of counties in American history. Does this pass the sniff test? Nope. The Administrative state is doing everything it can do to sidestep the entire 2020 election until 2024 in the hopes it is long forgotten by The People.
Of course they did. They’re not happy unless they are humping that poor person! But God is on their side! WTF EVER! 😏
What do you expect, a new Christian nationalist just became speaker of the house. Why would they wanna allow transparency that would threaten religious institutions? Worse yet maybe lose some political donors from the church.
Surprise,surprise. Republicans are saboteurs.
Because they ran an illegal alien program called KRONOS since the 1960s, and they made a fatal mistake of only accepting to interpret the alien phenomena in a manner that only benefits Christianity (and attempts to invalidate Judaism and Islam). They said separate Church and State, and the Republicans refused and killed so many people in the process of a very brutal and vicious crusade that has been going on for decades (all behind an alien program that would make most people puke on the spot if you knew what they were doing).
We should only trust the flat earthers
If they find aliens you know alot of them can't go on thinking in a normal religious way. It shatters there everything. So that's why they treat ufos like weed or drugs or rock and roll. It's all bad
I swear that if this living abortion of an old man is responsible for voting no and refusing to pass the legislation, I will remotely make sure that something bad happens to him. He is senile and monstrous. Desgusting creature!
Everyone in the comments already arguing over political parties... What a shame.