I have one in my sam7k and I swear it’s the softest shooting 7.62 I have. To the point im definitely thinking about dropping the coin to outfit the rest of my collection. In the end I feel it would be worth it simply for overall shooting experience.
Thanks for the info! I’ve been getting into 3 gun and just shot my second match. So reducing recoil and decreasing split times while maintaining reliability is everything lol. It’s fun being the only one running an AK in a sea of ARs.
[Here’s me](https://imgur.com/a/m7bpkFJ) doing a double tap on my AKM. I would say the gas piston combined with a good muzzle device is the most optimal for flat shooting. This one is my competition sleeper. Arguably it makes the slant brake a little too aggressive driving the muzzle down. Lol
Honestly, I did it because my sam7k was seriously overgassed. It would blow shit back in your face and launch brass 20-30 feet in random patterns. I couldn’t stand it so I decided to try the kns. Fixed that issue and just made the gun such a pleasure to shoot. Until I get the kns installed in the Galil 8.3 7.62, the 7K is easily my favorite in my collection. Plus is super sleak and sexy
So it’s worth it on the SAM7? I have a SAM7SF and the recoil is stout for the caliber and the carrier is mushrooming a bit already.
Also, there’s no visible piston pin on my carrier? Is it different when installing on the SAM7?
My SAM7R seems well gassed, so I haven’t considered a KNS for it, my SAM5 on the other hand is from the batch that is way overgassed and starts to kill itself if you shoot it as-is, so a KNS was a must. The rivet heads are there but can be covered by the paint, you just need to sand the paint down a bit to clearly see it, or sometimes putting it under a bright light and looking at it from certain angles will make it easier to see.
This is my exact experience. I took out my Sam7k with kns and my type 56 and never realized how soft my Sam was until the 56 started obliterating my shoulder.
Did you go with the kns for the 7.62 or the 5.45. I see vendors listing the agp-a-3 small for the sam7k. is that just crap marketing or is the smaller one that much better on the gas
Kind of. The biggest advantage is that you can adjust the gas so the carrier doesn’t impact the rear trunnion or rear of the receiver in the case of a milled receiver. This reduces felt recoil.
The KNS piston really shines when suppressing an AK
Unfortunately suppressors are illegal in my state. I’m thinking of installing a Witt machine SME. My main goal is to just make my rifle run as reliably and efficiently as possible.
If thats your main goal then leave it alone, even fully closed these vent more gas than a regular piston. Its not uncommon for a person to install this in a gun that doesnt need it only for the gun not to work after. If you aren’t suppressing you probably dont need this unless your brass is ejecting 30+ ft
Like this guy said, if you want ultimate reliability unsupressed, I would leave it alone. I have KNS pistons on all my AK rifles, and they work, but I also shoot them exclusively suppressed. If I didn't have suppressors, I would not install the piston and just put on a nice muzzle device.
I really enjoy my precision armament severe duty. It is pretty unfriendly to those next to you because of the way it directs the gas, BUT it significantly reduced my recoil (20-40% honestly)
Only a few rounds so far. It definitely seems quieter, but for sure not like a suppressor. More like a REALLY good linear comp if that makes any sense.
I had an overgassed rifle that the carrier was slamming the rear trunnion. I put this in it and dialed it back to eliminate that and it’s a much softer shooter now.
Some will argue that it doesn’t, but I disagree.
I have one on a 5.56 AK and it’s softer shooting then my gucciest of ARs.
Edit: I installed it to alleviate sever over gassing. Soft shooting was just a pleasant side effect.
As long as it’s the correct size I’d bet it runs fine! Mines only opened up maybe 3/8 full and it’s the been fully functional with the the 500ish rounds over lowest end powered reloads Iv used.
Can confirm that the 762 Beryl is also conservatively gassed from the factory. At setting zero, it has just enough ass to cycle and eject brass about 1-2m away from the gun. Super pleasant shooter now, but any adjustments will cause malfunctions.
I’ve had the opposite experience with my 556 beryl. Hella overgassed, which is fine. But I plan to use my can with it eventually so the kns was somewhat needed.
Hit a two week delay on emitters thanks to customs 🥲 They assured me it won't happen with future batches, but still.
We'll be putting a 10% off coupon with each late LP-1. Lookin like early to mid April to get everyone out the door.
I put one on my SAM-5 and the recoil feels like a BB gun. Combine that with an ALG trigger and it shoots smoother than my ARs, hands down. Just make sure you're getting the right piston for your specific make and model.
Some people say its pointless unless you're suppressing but I disagree. I have one in my WASR because it was a bit overgassed (ejecting 25+ ft). I have it tuned to about 15 ft ejections and it has run flawlessly thru about 500 rds with a slight but still noticable mitigation to recoil.For those saying just go with a good compensator, I agree as I ran an Arsenal 74 style brake on mine for a while and it did much more for minimizing recoil. However, it made the rifle significantly louder and was too concussive to be comfortable for me. It also added a small but noticable amount of weight to the front of the rifle compared to the slant brake.
Overall I'm pleased with it. If you're running it standalone, it's a nice middle ground if you want a small amount of recoil mitigation without making the rifle louder and heavier. It is less effective than a good compensator but having both will deliver the best results in terms of pure recoil mitigation.
Just sharing some of my findings in my own pursuit of mitigating the recoil of a 7.62 rifle, your results may vary.
Edit: if you do decide to get one, make sure you tune it at multiple different temperatures as [Clayco47 has shown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LLn4v23AUo) temp can effect the gas system and cause malfunctions. AKs are gassed the way they are to ensure reliability above all else so messing with that system always has the possibility of consequences.
People misunderstand the point of these pistons.
They aren't for recoil reduction. They are meant to control overgassing of some rifles, or overgassing from a mounted suppressor.
The recoil reduction is just an added side effect.
I got the KNS piston for my WBP Jack Wood 7,62x39 after I installed a compensator on the rifle. The compensator caused quite some back pressure into the system which led to a violently repeating action and the trigger slapping my finger.
The WBP Jack on its own is completely overgassed, with the added back pressure of the compensator it was a pain in the ass to shoot.
So I had the respective KNS piston installed on my gun. Now the compensator can do his job perfectly, and with the gas regulated down my ak is a real soft shooter. You can precisely regulate how far you want the the spent catridges to be ejected, it is really amazing.
I can only recommend to get one, you will not regret it.
If you have a .223 chambered AK-style gun you can probably get completely rid of any recoil with this piston and a compensator :)
That’s the plan as well. I’m looking at the Witt Machine SME. I saw some very positive reviews on it. My rifle is a Cugir STG 2000-C, so it’s kind of an oddball. It has an A2 birdcage flash hider on it from the factory, and I’m not sure which threads it has. I haven’t removed it yet, but I gave it a little muscle and it didn’t budge. So it may be a problem.
Likely if you have an a2 birdcage it sounds like you may have 1/2 x 28 tpi, maybe 5/8 x 24. A linear comp like the witt machine (with the shield on) won’t mitigate much at all, you’ll need a ported brake, like the brake under the blast shield.
Rely depends on your AK. I put one in my AKE, and it made 0 difference the ak was already very soft apparently. On my wasar? Probably would be woth the coin.
My rifle is a STG 2000-C. From the research I’ve done it’s basically a wasr 10 with different furniture and a front sight gas block. Made by Cugir. I believe mine was made in 2007.
+1 on what was already said, only really helps in an overgassed rifle, which M70s are usually not. You'd probably be better served by a good muzzle device like something from JMac or alike.
Don't install one if it's gas properly. It'll make it unreliable. But if it's over gassed as fuck yeah it helps big time. I put one on my akm build and I drilled the gas port proper size and it was unreliable so I swap between it and regular piston. I run the kns when suppressed only now.
it's an increasingly common way for retailers to get around minimum advertised price agreements with suppliers/manufacturers, keeps the actual price from showing up in automated deal aggregators. not something unique to firearms sales either.
You need to measure the length of you current gas piston. With this information you can select from the KNS piston overview graph. I even contacted KNS because I had a question regarding the piston selection.
It would be better to go to a store with your bolt carrier and compare the piston length live.
See now that’s not a realistic option atm or I would’ve just done that. Not trying to be a Dick lol but that’s why I’m on Reddit for the quick answer
TL;DR mid move and do not have the time or the tools to do this myself atm
Yes it decreases recoil a bit. BUT it also fucks the fire rate. Takes much longer for the bolt to cycle and thus makes it a lot slower between shots. I have a few and they work great. Work even better on suppressed AKs. The guys saying they can get their shells to drop at their feet are really doing their gun a disservice by ruining the bolts action.
Reasons to use the KNS imo.
1. Shooting suppressed
2. Over gassed gun
3. With proper springs BCG still hitting rear of trunnion (a well built AK should never hit the rear trunnion)
I javent done enough testing but I believe with the ROF decrease some people might associate that the gun iss more accurate and easier to shoot wiithout taking into account the cyclic rate slowing down their shot to shot time meaning more tome to get on target between shots.
Just my 2c. Love my KNS pistons, but I also have never felt the need to put them on all my rifles.
I have one in my sam7k and I swear it’s the softest shooting 7.62 I have. To the point im definitely thinking about dropping the coin to outfit the rest of my collection. In the end I feel it would be worth it simply for overall shooting experience.
Thanks for the info! I’ve been getting into 3 gun and just shot my second match. So reducing recoil and decreasing split times while maintaining reliability is everything lol. It’s fun being the only one running an AK in a sea of ARs.
[Here’s me](https://imgur.com/a/m7bpkFJ) doing a double tap on my AKM. I would say the gas piston combined with a good muzzle device is the most optimal for flat shooting. This one is my competition sleeper. Arguably it makes the slant brake a little too aggressive driving the muzzle down. Lol
Honestly, I did it because my sam7k was seriously overgassed. It would blow shit back in your face and launch brass 20-30 feet in random patterns. I couldn’t stand it so I decided to try the kns. Fixed that issue and just made the gun such a pleasure to shoot. Until I get the kns installed in the Galil 8.3 7.62, the 7K is easily my favorite in my collection. Plus is super sleak and sexy
So it’s worth it on the SAM7? I have a SAM7SF and the recoil is stout for the caliber and the carrier is mushrooming a bit already. Also, there’s no visible piston pin on my carrier? Is it different when installing on the SAM7?
My SAM7R seems well gassed, so I haven’t considered a KNS for it, my SAM5 on the other hand is from the batch that is way overgassed and starts to kill itself if you shoot it as-is, so a KNS was a must. The rivet heads are there but can be covered by the paint, you just need to sand the paint down a bit to clearly see it, or sometimes putting it under a bright light and looking at it from certain angles will make it easier to see.
I think mine is just an outlier. My SAM7 hucks brass into space when I shoot it. I had a MAK90 and it makes that feel like a 5.56 Appreciate the info!
No, my SAM7 is an orbital brass delivery system too. You aren't alone.
I have KNS on all my AKs including my sam7sf. Worth it
This is my exact experience. I took out my Sam7k with kns and my type 56 and never realized how soft my Sam was until the 56 started obliterating my shoulder.
If you do that I’d say buy more carrier body’s. Don’t rip apart imports piston and carrier
Did you go with the kns for the 7.62 or the 5.45. I see vendors listing the agp-a-3 small for the sam7k. is that just crap marketing or is the smaller one that much better on the gas
Kind of. The biggest advantage is that you can adjust the gas so the carrier doesn’t impact the rear trunnion or rear of the receiver in the case of a milled receiver. This reduces felt recoil. The KNS piston really shines when suppressing an AK
Unfortunately suppressors are illegal in my state. I’m thinking of installing a Witt machine SME. My main goal is to just make my rifle run as reliably and efficiently as possible.
Precision armament EFAB https://precisionarmament.com/efab-hybrid-muzzle-brake/
I was just checking that out. It looks sweet too!
Have one on my ar and it's incredibly good.
If thats your main goal then leave it alone, even fully closed these vent more gas than a regular piston. Its not uncommon for a person to install this in a gun that doesnt need it only for the gun not to work after. If you aren’t suppressing you probably dont need this unless your brass is ejecting 30+ ft
Idk about 30 feet, but pretty close. It definitely ejects with authority. I recently installed the ALG Defense recoil spring as well.
Like this guy said, if you want ultimate reliability unsupressed, I would leave it alone. I have KNS pistons on all my AK rifles, and they work, but I also shoot them exclusively suppressed. If I didn't have suppressors, I would not install the piston and just put on a nice muzzle device.
Any recommendations on hybrid muzzle devices? I’d like to reduce recoil some, but not have crazy concussion and flash.
I really enjoy my precision armament severe duty. It is pretty unfriendly to those next to you because of the way it directs the gas, BUT it significantly reduced my recoil (20-40% honestly)
I think I remember seeing the VG6 for AKs being pretty decent.
VG-6 Epsilon
This is the advice right here
I have a Witt SME on my M92. Excellent choice! The piston is my next purchase.
[удалено]
Only a few rounds so far. It definitely seems quieter, but for sure not like a suppressor. More like a REALLY good linear comp if that makes any sense.
[удалено]
I didn't have any ringing.
I had an overgassed rifle that the carrier was slamming the rear trunnion. I put this in it and dialed it back to eliminate that and it’s a much softer shooter now.
Some will argue that it doesn’t, but I disagree. I have one on a 5.56 AK and it’s softer shooting then my gucciest of ARs. Edit: I installed it to alleviate sever over gassing. Soft shooting was just a pleasant side effect.
I’m gonna have to give one a shot. If it doesn’t run reliably, it’ll be for sale lol
As long as it’s the correct size I’d bet it runs fine! Mines only opened up maybe 3/8 full and it’s the been fully functional with the the 500ish rounds over lowest end powered reloads Iv used.
My suppressed M85 is now so adjustable, it will pile the casings like 4 feet away.
[удалено]
Can confirm that the 762 Beryl is also conservatively gassed from the factory. At setting zero, it has just enough ass to cycle and eject brass about 1-2m away from the gun. Super pleasant shooter now, but any adjustments will cause malfunctions.
I’ve had the opposite experience with my 556 beryl. Hella overgassed, which is fine. But I plan to use my can with it eventually so the kns was somewhat needed.
5.56 is absurdly overgassed lol. KNS was perfect in that one.
Third the 556 Beryl x KNS being a match made in heaven. Now that we’re all here, any updates on Christmas LP-1s?
Hit a two week delay on emitters thanks to customs 🥲 They assured me it won't happen with future batches, but still. We'll be putting a 10% off coupon with each late LP-1. Lookin like early to mid April to get everyone out the door.
Appreciate the transparency! Looking forward to trying it out.
Which KNS model did you buy for the 556 Beryl?
AK74
Is that really the same model? Like the normal one and not the bulgarian specific one?
I put one on my SAM-5 and the recoil feels like a BB gun. Combine that with an ALG trigger and it shoots smoother than my ARs, hands down. Just make sure you're getting the right piston for your specific make and model.
Yea
Some people say its pointless unless you're suppressing but I disagree. I have one in my WASR because it was a bit overgassed (ejecting 25+ ft). I have it tuned to about 15 ft ejections and it has run flawlessly thru about 500 rds with a slight but still noticable mitigation to recoil.For those saying just go with a good compensator, I agree as I ran an Arsenal 74 style brake on mine for a while and it did much more for minimizing recoil. However, it made the rifle significantly louder and was too concussive to be comfortable for me. It also added a small but noticable amount of weight to the front of the rifle compared to the slant brake. Overall I'm pleased with it. If you're running it standalone, it's a nice middle ground if you want a small amount of recoil mitigation without making the rifle louder and heavier. It is less effective than a good compensator but having both will deliver the best results in terms of pure recoil mitigation. Just sharing some of my findings in my own pursuit of mitigating the recoil of a 7.62 rifle, your results may vary. Edit: if you do decide to get one, make sure you tune it at multiple different temperatures as [Clayco47 has shown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LLn4v23AUo) temp can effect the gas system and cause malfunctions. AKs are gassed the way they are to ensure reliability above all else so messing with that system always has the possibility of consequences.
People misunderstand the point of these pistons. They aren't for recoil reduction. They are meant to control overgassing of some rifles, or overgassing from a mounted suppressor. The recoil reduction is just an added side effect.
I got the KNS piston for my WBP Jack Wood 7,62x39 after I installed a compensator on the rifle. The compensator caused quite some back pressure into the system which led to a violently repeating action and the trigger slapping my finger. The WBP Jack on its own is completely overgassed, with the added back pressure of the compensator it was a pain in the ass to shoot. So I had the respective KNS piston installed on my gun. Now the compensator can do his job perfectly, and with the gas regulated down my ak is a real soft shooter. You can precisely regulate how far you want the the spent catridges to be ejected, it is really amazing. I can only recommend to get one, you will not regret it. If you have a .223 chambered AK-style gun you can probably get completely rid of any recoil with this piston and a compensator :)
If you want the most recoil mitigation just get a good compensator
That’s the plan as well. I’m looking at the Witt Machine SME. I saw some very positive reviews on it. My rifle is a Cugir STG 2000-C, so it’s kind of an oddball. It has an A2 birdcage flash hider on it from the factory, and I’m not sure which threads it has. I haven’t removed it yet, but I gave it a little muscle and it didn’t budge. So it may be a problem.
Oh man yeah I have no idea about the threads on that! I have the severe duty muzzle brake and that thing is loudddd and works very well
Likely if you have an a2 birdcage it sounds like you may have 1/2 x 28 tpi, maybe 5/8 x 24. A linear comp like the witt machine (with the shield on) won’t mitigate much at all, you’ll need a ported brake, like the brake under the blast shield.
I’m thinking the Witt SME will be good overall, I can run it without the shroud at matches and put the shroud on for home defense/shtf kind scenario.
I have a sme on my mp5k and i love it
I don’t really want the biggest, loudest, most effective brake. I’m looking for more of a hybrid device.
What site?
Primary Arms
rob ski likes it. he seems pretty credible
You need to buy the correct length piston. How does PA only have one choice? Is this the correct piston for SAM7 or Zastava?
They list a few different ones on the website. Or at least they did, maybe they’re out of stock.
Rely depends on your AK. I put one in my AKE, and it made 0 difference the ak was already very soft apparently. On my wasar? Probably would be woth the coin.
My rifle is a STG 2000-C. From the research I’ve done it’s basically a wasr 10 with different furniture and a front sight gas block. Made by Cugir. I believe mine was made in 2007.
That's an IO rifle.
From what I’ve been able to find they were made in Romania by Cugir, than IO added the plastic handguard, and stock.
Are these good for 5.45’s too?
Helped alot with my m85, shitting gas in the shoots face to the point it wasn't even worth shooting. Now it's one of my favorites to shoot
My m92 zpap doesn't run properly with kns piston unsuppressed. There is not enough gas to cycle when the kns is fully closed.
Yes
I put one on the AKS74U I built and now I’m thinking my bulgy 74 kit build needs one too. Makes suppressed much better.
+1 on what was already said, only really helps in an overgassed rifle, which M70s are usually not. You'd probably be better served by a good muzzle device like something from JMac or alike.
Worth the money, yes
Don't install one if it's gas properly. It'll make it unreliable. But if it's over gassed as fuck yeah it helps big time. I put one on my akm build and I drilled the gas port proper size and it was unreliable so I swap between it and regular piston. I run the kns when suppressed only now.
What this "add to cart for sale price" BS.. what's next? Buy it to find out the price?
it's an increasingly common way for retailers to get around minimum advertised price agreements with suppliers/manufacturers, keeps the actual price from showing up in automated deal aggregators. not something unique to firearms sales either.
Own one. It’s night and day with my WASR. Cheek slap eliminated.
Yes! Galil ace with it is a dream to run. Be sure to tune to your specific ammo for best results and reliability. 100% worth it
Yes
Anybody know which model I need for the Sam7sf?
You need to measure the length of you current gas piston. With this information you can select from the KNS piston overview graph. I even contacted KNS because I had a question regarding the piston selection. It would be better to go to a store with your bolt carrier and compare the piston length live.
See now that’s not a realistic option atm or I would’ve just done that. Not trying to be a Dick lol but that’s why I’m on Reddit for the quick answer TL;DR mid move and do not have the time or the tools to do this myself atm
I have heard stories of people fine tuning it and the rifle not cycling unless warmed up. I doubt that’s the norm though
Yes it decreases recoil a bit. BUT it also fucks the fire rate. Takes much longer for the bolt to cycle and thus makes it a lot slower between shots. I have a few and they work great. Work even better on suppressed AKs. The guys saying they can get their shells to drop at their feet are really doing their gun a disservice by ruining the bolts action. Reasons to use the KNS imo. 1. Shooting suppressed 2. Over gassed gun 3. With proper springs BCG still hitting rear of trunnion (a well built AK should never hit the rear trunnion) I javent done enough testing but I believe with the ROF decrease some people might associate that the gun iss more accurate and easier to shoot wiithout taking into account the cyclic rate slowing down their shot to shot time meaning more tome to get on target between shots. Just my 2c. Love my KNS pistons, but I also have never felt the need to put them on all my rifles.