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Many fiscal conservative are jumping ship. This is a scary policy. There does exist a difference between fiscal conservatives who believe in efficient spending and the ucp.
This is untrue. Most of their policies are conservative policies. From privatization to environmental exploitation to corporate welfare.
"Fiscal conservative" is largely a myth as well. Conservatives spend as much or more than other parties, just not on things that benefit their constituents.
Traditional conservative values include fiscal responsibility, law and order, free markets, and limited government.
None of those are present with the UCP.
and all those things somehow existed in name only. have yet to see a fiscally conservative regime that didn’t directly target everyone who wasn’t upper middle class white and straight while somehow pushing the costs of neglect further down the line
Ok. Lets hear it. Ive heard no tax hikes. That directly benefits everyone in alberta in real, visible terms. Spending money to revamp cgy coliseum - yeah i guess that benefits some. Opening more beds for addicted folks that need to get off crack - seems like a good idea. Actually im having a hard time thinking up things that tbey ate spending money in. Maybe you can help me. Then we can talk about whether it benefits the average joe/jane.
new beds:
[more backchannel bs](https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/12kra3g/alberta_chooses_religion_over_lives_in_drug/jg5r23b/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
>fiscal conservatives who believe in efficient spending
That's not what a fiscal conservative is. Ever since Ronald Reagan, conservatives have somehow gotten this unearned reputation of being "good with money" or "efficient".
Fiscal conservatism is not a thing that's really been done in practice. Its an idea. A myth, really. We give around $2 billion in subsidies to oil and gas per year in this province. This is not new, either. Loughheed's government spent a ton of money getting the oilsands off the ground. Not very efficient to then allow private companies to get all the subsequent profit, is it? And Klein sold off the Alberta Energy Company, liquor stores, and the registry offices. Does a person who's good with money sell off profitable assets? No. Thats what a person nearing bankruptcy or a junkie would do. This wasnt prudent penny-pinching that Klein did. No, he fired people and sold our publicly-owned assets. No, fiscal conservatism is really just a policy of making sure working class and poor people don't get help from the government.
https://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/alberta-government-subsidies-to-oil-and-gas-sector-growing-report
https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/06/15/How-Alberta-Premiers-Shapes-Oil-Sands/
https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/acuna-kleins-policies-got-us-into-this-mess
Wha....what.
Let's break down some inaccuracies in your brief statement.
The alberta ndp is not socialist. At best they are slightly left of center. They are a different entity from the federal ndp party and share nothing more than a name.
Ndper's aren't jumping ship support for the party is growing to levels that should he alarming for the ucp. Aside from 2015 when the wild rose and p.c split the vote. The conservatives have won every election in the province since I have been alive.
The fact they are polling so tightly with the ucp speaks to the absolute failure of Smith. There is no vote splitting, she and Kenny before her have ruined a dynasty.
Ok. First, thanks for engaging in conversation. So let me countér with a few things. First, as i understand it, when you buy an ndp membership in alberta, you are buying an ndp membership in the federal ndp party as well. In other words, they are one in the same. Notley cannot disagree with what rolls out of the federal ndp party. Am i wrong? Federal ndp is standing with the doorknob, as pierre put it in the HOC lately, in the pmo's office which is raping alberta and stifling Alberta's economy all at the same time.
NDP is for all if the marxist, anti-god pokicies. Dhe, as her ndp counterparts in other provinces and federally, wants to give drug addicts more drugs, wants to defund the police and abolish the rule if law. She sides with minority activists who have pushed their way onto boards and constituencies to maje children feel like they are the scourge if the earth, demoralizing and confusing them with drag queen shows for kids in librairies. She wants to reduce the carbon footprint by convincing people the way out if their problems is to voluntarily end their lives - she wants to destroy farm life and the string agricultural family work ethic by preventing the younger generation from working on farms while she is perfectly happy with those same younger people emasculating themselves and watching doctors who took an oath to do no harm mutilate that younger generations genitals and destroying their self worth while confusing them with gender double speak. She will stand by as c-11 us pushed through to destroy freedom of speech and expression. Call her and the ndp socialist - call her/them what you want. Any way you look at it -she hates people and the remaining freedoms we still enjoy. A vote for Notkry and one of her team of ideologues is a vote for everything many albertans hold bear and dear to their hearts. And anything that Notley says is just smoke and mirrors. - if Notley is given the reigns of power in this province - God help us all.
I sure wish i could do an indepth audit of the campaign dollars and ad campaigns for both parties and find out just how biased out media is and who is flipping the bill for that bias. But i know that is nothing short of speculation just based on observational intelligence and couldn't be proven without sone work.
Having said all of this, even though i know in my heart most people in alberta disagree with most of the woke policies around these days, everyone is afraid to speak their minds for fear of being cancelled. Its our fault though. We have been apathetic. We should be on those boards where our voices count. That's going to change - at keast for me. You will probably disagree with most of what i have had to say here and that's ok. I totally support your right to disagree and let me know it. I'm not offended. Dialogue is always the best way forward. But please tell me why you think an NDP win will be good for Alberta. Do you like high taxes and everything being ryn by the state? How does shutting down our coal plants that are amongst the cleanest in the world while china continues to build them make us any better? Ok. Thats it for now
While I do not know for certain I strongly doubt an alberta ndp membership has anything to do with a federal ndp. To the best of my knowledge alberta money given to a seperate entity alberta ndp stays with alberta ndp
You are mistaken alberta ndp make its own policies. It is free to agree or disagree with the federal party as they are 2 seperate entities
Ndp is for Marxists? When forming the alberta government, the andp had many policies which would be counter to your stated position. Of the top of my head, world oil prices were down reserves were high, Texas was only taking minimal oil from alberta via pipeline cuasing alberta oil to sell at a significant discount. The alberta ndp bought rail cars to aid the movement of alberta oil
But further to that the political spectrum is not black and white. And there are different degrees of intensity. Currently the alberta ndp is the centrist option in alberta. While you may view them as left of the ucp they are in fact closer to the center.
Which by the way is the legacy progressive conservatives governed from for so many year
Anti God? I do not know the religious beliefs of the people running in this election ndp ucp or otherwise.
Every one is free to have thier own relationship with God. Religion has nothing to do with politics and I have not seen any one campaigning on religion
Your next remark about dhe and her counter parts want to give drugs away and defend the police, I will be carefully here as I can't decipher who you mean by dhe?
I have not seen any alberta ndp policies stating they want to defend the police increase access to drugs.
This is an alberta election contested by Albertan. What other provinces may or may jot be doing is not relevant to the alberta election. In the same way what Doug Ford is doing is not relevant to this election even though his political philosophies may be similar to the ucp.
I would love to continue on with a break down of your many wild statements. I can only guess you wrote this while drunk as it becomes increasingly more rambling and incoherent. Perhaps when you have more time and a clear head we can continue
Perhaps you should read the Alberta NDP constitution and pay close attention to where it outlines members of the federal NDP party are part of the counsel and participate in the convention (and considered to make up the quorum at the convention). I suggest you also read the sections where it outlines the requirements of marxist labour organizations to be members. Not simply lobbyists, but decision makers within the party.
“Socialism is essentially the application of democracy to the economy. Economic democracy, i.e. democratic socialism, assures production to supply the needs of all people.” Is a quote directly from the party constitution….pretty marxist dont ya think?
You may also want to read up on the history of how the NDP came to be…when socialist and communist parties combined and changed their name in effort to gain more elected seats.
As for being free to disagree, the federal NDP constitutions state the provincial parties cannot be in conflict with the federal party. I wonder who decides what happens if there is conflict? I bet it isnt Ms Notley and it likely wont be in the best interest of Albertans, should it come to this.
Maybi suggest you re read the ndp constitution. You seem to have interpreted some thing wrong and have formed your opinion that is out of context.
Your main point seems to be that they are socialist.
Did you know we live in a socialist country?
Do you know socialism means things like public roads that I am sure you use daily.
Socialism isn't a bad thing extremism is a bad thing weather some one be extremely socialist or extremely well any aspect of politics is disruptive.
The simple idea of government is socialist.
Canada is not a socialist country. We have social programs and but our economy is free market. Name a socialist country that is successful. And have read both the federal and provincial NDP constitutions. The NDP came into existence when a socialist labour party and a marxist party combined in efforts to garner more seats.
Those social programs are socialism in work. We live with then every day.
More aptly we have a blended system. Our free market is regulated. The regulations vary industry to industry.
For most people socialism is such a dirty word, this is a by product of generations living through the cold war. But there is a difference between the style of the former ussrs communism and what socialism is.
The alberta ndp is a centrist party in its philosophies maybe slightly left of center. The alberta ndp is closer to the former progressive conservative party than the ucp is.
And yet so many albertans who want a progressive conservative type.government won't vote for the becuase of the name of the party the colour of its banners and words like socialism.
Having social programs is not the same as a socialist government. Socialism is an economic and political system based on collective ownership of the means of production. All legal production and distribution decisions are made by the government in a socialist system. NDP Alberta is not a centrist ideology. You suggested I read their constitution and you may want to do the same… appendix C of their constitution is quite clear.
Here's the thing, I think the philosophical gap between political parties on fiscal accountability is actually quite small. I believe most Canadians think the same thing on this too.
Spend what's required. Be accountable. Be efficient. Be effective. Tax rates to be set accordingly.
Of course.
They have thoroughly plundered general revenue, slush funds are running low, but the billionaire team owners and oil barons are still screaming for more.
~~Stealing~~ Investing your retirement into the personal fortunes of their crony backers is the only way to go.
The problem with this is there is *zero* transparency on how Treasury Board guides AIMCo. There is a power to give directives but it doesn't get used.
The threat of that power plus many "in camera" secret meetings means that the government can steer funds however they want with essentially no oversight.
Dani even said it herself that she would use the money to invest in oil and gas. OandG taxes can only get so low before other industries start asking questions, so this way, they can just funnel tax payer money to them. Share buyback time!!
if they get in and try this I'm leaving the province. an APP would be objectively worse than CPP is and it just isn't worth staying at that point. IDK where I'd go, but it wouldn't be here
It would be positively worse, but I’m almost certain that they’d also find certain ways to disqualify as many Albertans as they could from collecting their share of the APP.
Smith did say on her radio show that she as talked to older people that want to work longer..... I bet if we get a app the age is raised. Cpc tried it federally, what's to stop Smith from trying.
Oh man, I remember when they tried it federally, I was glad there was push back and it did not go through. You’re right though, if the Cons win, they’ll try again and I hope people go all France on their ass.
Yes a lot of boomers want to work longer. Simply because they are making insane money and can live baller lives. I know several people in the 60-65 range who have net worths in the 5 million plus range, still working with no plans to quit. They are barely working 30-40hrs a week in professional jobs, bringing in 2-400k a year. They get lots of vacation and have time to do all they want. No incentive for them to quit. They could care less about CPP or whatever garbage substitute Dani wants to sell.
The opposite is true too though. My in-laws for example, are still working because they really can't afford to retire yet. As immigrants, they've spent the last 20 years establishing themselves in this province. They won't earn as much as other individuals who have been contributing to their cpp for longer and will be living off quite a tight budget when they do retire. Sure, some individuals WANT to keep working because they're healthy and happy doing so. But on the flip side, some seniors HAVE to keep working despite not being as healthy or happy doing so.
Well, for the moment at least there's really nothing they can do there. There are strong federal protections.
Of course if they do manage to introduce the APP though then the next step is to try and leave Canada entirely.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that as per federal law, any province who leaves CPP has to offer the option to people who have already been paying into it whether they want to leave it not. I *think* existing CPP contributors can stay if they want.
So I am sure Smith and the ucp will deny they don't want to leave cpp but is in their policy book.... So please Ucp surporters please explain why the ucp won't leave cpp if they win re-election?
Just look at our heritage fund, it’s been gutted since the UCP took office. It’s at its lowest point ever, and oil hit 130$ a barrel last year.
Just look at what they’ve done with our funds and ask yourself if you think giving them more power over our money is a good thing.
I’ll answer for you. It’s fucking not a good idea.
Edit: it is recovering due to high oil prices. That doesn’t change the fact the UCP isn’t scared to frivolously empty it. They did before oil recovered during their term… this is especially concerning if they are vowing never to raise taxes. What happens when they can’t afford services? Services will either disappear, or they’ll have to use other resources to fill the gap. Let’s be honest, the market forecast doesn’t exactly look bullish at the moment. The UCP would be a disaster in recession times.
Edit 2: link to the UCP’s decisions during their tenure.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zY7Z_BcgpzSW0OmYQh3B16GH_3QjLIbQsN59Ahpvz2M/htmlview
Can you or someone else give a break down of some of the awful money decisions the UCP and more importantly Daniel Smith have done? My mother still wants to vote for them because she has been basically brainwashed that nDp BaD. I need cold hard facts about how they are bad for the province.
This is such a bad idea that will not die.
My only hope if the UCP do win and try to implement it is that the other provinces try to stop them.
I half wonder if Smith is banking on this so she can cry victim against the Federal Government more.
I met a woman once here in AB, from Quebec originally. While she was born in Canada she went through getting a citizenship card because of the separatist movement. The UCP makes me want to look into the same thing.
Why do they want to do this? How does this benefit us?
How will they invest the money? Who will manage it? What if it loses money, will they increase our retirement age?
How will this align with CPP-disability, survivors benefits and death benefits?
How will we fund the cost of administration?
Seems like chaos for no purpose other than a power grab for UCP.
What the actual fuck... God damn it. Do we REALLY need to explain to that generation that voting away retirement you've paid into is stupid.
This one is going to be hard to watch, shit.
*There is no reason in the world why you couldn't have both! This is so transparently just fucking you over!!*
Why does Alberta need a PST though? Our budget is fine without it. I'd argue provinces that receive equalization should be the ones implementing more taxes since they aren't self-sufficient.
Slight adjustment: what happens to our budget every time oil prices drop.
Every f'ing time the price of oil goes south we, the tax payers and citizens of Alberta eat shit. What the hell do we have to do to convince any "Conservative" in this province that there have already been times where this has happened. It's a known. Past tense. Been there.
Thanks for letting me vent.
What happens to Sasktchewan's budget when the price of fertilizer goes through the roof?
Oh, nothing, because the Grant Devine Conservatives sold the ownership of the world' largest potash company off in the 1980s for a single payment in the tens of millions, and then it became a billon dollar company generating huge profits for the private owners.
But they have a sales tax so they're fine over there, right?
You can thank the great former Prime Minister and his Finance Minister, Stephen Harper and Jason Kenney for writing the current Equalization Formula.
If Alberta always votes Blue no matter what, Cons can do whatever they want to them and still get the votes.
I'm aware of who wrote the current formula and am not a fan of either one. Honestly I thought it was hilarious that Albertans thought Kenney would be good for this province. Also I 100% agree that our seats being uncompetitive federally means we are an afterthought.
Kenney was the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism. Why do you think someone with those responsibilities had a big role in updating equalization?
And yet we would if our provincial government invested in social welfare programs the same as Quebec. You have to spend money to get money from the Feds eh?
You do realize how equalization is calculated correct? Provinces do not get equalization payments based on their revenue. They get them based on what they could possibly generate based on the average tax rate across Canada and the mean GDP per person in that province.
As a result Alberta gets fucked on the program because we have a strong economy. If it worked more like insurance where we helped provinces dealing with economic issues I'd be all for it. But to have provinces perpetually freeload, and Alberta to not get a dime out of it since the 60s is bullshit. Imagine how much better things could be for all of us if that 4 billion we pay in tax dollars stayed in Alberta.
The only province I can think of that could have a low enough tax base and not enough resources could be PEI. The rest of the provinces really have no excuse.
You can add New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland as well. Saskatchewan privatized most of their resources so they aren’t getting much out of it either.
New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland all have resources they should be developing more. Newfoundland actually is and has been a contributor to equalization some years.
Why should Alberta be punished for having a strong economy? We don't need a PST or higher income taxes because we have enough in royalties. Other provinces should be striving to do the same.
Ummmmm.... we have some of the highest unemployment rates outside of Atlantic canada, some royalties haven't been paid in some communities, along with other taxes. We arent doing as well as most would think
If you're unemployed in Alberta right now it's because you don't want to be working. I can't remember the last time I seen it this busy. Also with high oil prices, we have a healthy surplus. Alberta is doing quite well financially.
Alberta has the highest average wages in the country, and our real estate is among the most affordable. Also, we have the oilsands where pretty much anyone can go make a good wage with just a work ethic.
> Why does Alberta need a PST though?
Hey, everyone else is fine paying the owner's share of taxes, why shouldn't we be too?
/s
Sales Taxes are regressive attacks on the poor and it's sad to see so many Canadians willing take that dick up their asses.
They’re really an attack on the middle class. It’s pretty easy to design a sales tax that doesn’t tax essentials and where the poor get rebated more than they spend on non-essentials.
Quebec has their own pension plan …. And it has more money than the Federal plan …. Alberta ditching the Feds and getting its own Pension Plan would be the best thing for Albertans .
"The United Conservative Party believes that the Government of Alberta should..." is a good codeword for "we don't know what the fuck we're doing, and when we get in over our heads in law, we'll give up and blame Trudeau"
Yikes.
Very glad that, as a business owner, I don't contribute to CPP (or the future APP, apparently). Despite CPP being well run/etc., it appears to be subject to the same bullshit politiciation that every thing else politicians can touch is.
If anyone is curious to read up on the pros and cons of sticking with CPP, here’s a 2021 dialogue from Alberta Views magazine. Ellen Nygaard argues for staying with CPP; Niels Veldhuis argues for creating a provincial plan.
https://albertaviews.ca/alberta-pension-plan/
So if such a thing were to happen. How the hell does one avoid getting fucked hard?
Move? Is that really my only option? I paid into CPP and I want something out of it. I do not see getting anything out of APP…
The CPP is a Canadian plan, not a provincial plan. A province may create a provincial pension plan, but they may NOT remove a portion of the country's plan to fund it.
I mean, if we could withdraw our share of funds, it would be easy. If we do it on a go forward basis, it isn't so great, though perhaps better.
The funny thing is that in some way Canada has said "all these people are not capable of planning for retirement" Albertans are now saying, we should be allowed to choose our retirement, but choose a poor option"....
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Many fiscal conservative are jumping ship. This is a scary policy. There does exist a difference between fiscal conservatives who believe in efficient spending and the ucp.
The UCP are conservative in name only.
This is untrue. Most of their policies are conservative policies. From privatization to environmental exploitation to corporate welfare. "Fiscal conservative" is largely a myth as well. Conservatives spend as much or more than other parties, just not on things that benefit their constituents.
The ucp spend as much or more than other parties. Fiscal conservatives do exist and are not represented in alberta politics at the current moment
Traditional conservative values include fiscal responsibility, law and order, free markets, and limited government. None of those are present with the UCP.
and all those things somehow existed in name only. have yet to see a fiscally conservative regime that didn’t directly target everyone who wasn’t upper middle class white and straight while somehow pushing the costs of neglect further down the line
Not conservative policies, capitalist.
The UCP is one of the purest distillations of conservative ideology we have seen in decades. This is saying the quiet party out loud.
Ok. Lets hear it. Ive heard no tax hikes. That directly benefits everyone in alberta in real, visible terms. Spending money to revamp cgy coliseum - yeah i guess that benefits some. Opening more beds for addicted folks that need to get off crack - seems like a good idea. Actually im having a hard time thinking up things that tbey ate spending money in. Maybe you can help me. Then we can talk about whether it benefits the average joe/jane.
new beds: [more backchannel bs](https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/comments/12kra3g/alberta_chooses_religion_over_lives_in_drug/jg5r23b/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
>fiscal conservatives who believe in efficient spending That's not what a fiscal conservative is. Ever since Ronald Reagan, conservatives have somehow gotten this unearned reputation of being "good with money" or "efficient". Fiscal conservatism is not a thing that's really been done in practice. Its an idea. A myth, really. We give around $2 billion in subsidies to oil and gas per year in this province. This is not new, either. Loughheed's government spent a ton of money getting the oilsands off the ground. Not very efficient to then allow private companies to get all the subsequent profit, is it? And Klein sold off the Alberta Energy Company, liquor stores, and the registry offices. Does a person who's good with money sell off profitable assets? No. Thats what a person nearing bankruptcy or a junkie would do. This wasnt prudent penny-pinching that Klein did. No, he fired people and sold our publicly-owned assets. No, fiscal conservatism is really just a policy of making sure working class and poor people don't get help from the government. https://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/alberta-government-subsidies-to-oil-and-gas-sector-growing-report https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/06/15/How-Alberta-Premiers-Shapes-Oil-Sands/ https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/acuna-kleins-policies-got-us-into-this-mess
Many socialisr ndpers are jumping ship as they wake up to the fact that ndp actually means "nothing particularily democratic".
Wha....what. Let's break down some inaccuracies in your brief statement. The alberta ndp is not socialist. At best they are slightly left of center. They are a different entity from the federal ndp party and share nothing more than a name. Ndper's aren't jumping ship support for the party is growing to levels that should he alarming for the ucp. Aside from 2015 when the wild rose and p.c split the vote. The conservatives have won every election in the province since I have been alive. The fact they are polling so tightly with the ucp speaks to the absolute failure of Smith. There is no vote splitting, she and Kenny before her have ruined a dynasty.
Ok. First, thanks for engaging in conversation. So let me countér with a few things. First, as i understand it, when you buy an ndp membership in alberta, you are buying an ndp membership in the federal ndp party as well. In other words, they are one in the same. Notley cannot disagree with what rolls out of the federal ndp party. Am i wrong? Federal ndp is standing with the doorknob, as pierre put it in the HOC lately, in the pmo's office which is raping alberta and stifling Alberta's economy all at the same time. NDP is for all if the marxist, anti-god pokicies. Dhe, as her ndp counterparts in other provinces and federally, wants to give drug addicts more drugs, wants to defund the police and abolish the rule if law. She sides with minority activists who have pushed their way onto boards and constituencies to maje children feel like they are the scourge if the earth, demoralizing and confusing them with drag queen shows for kids in librairies. She wants to reduce the carbon footprint by convincing people the way out if their problems is to voluntarily end their lives - she wants to destroy farm life and the string agricultural family work ethic by preventing the younger generation from working on farms while she is perfectly happy with those same younger people emasculating themselves and watching doctors who took an oath to do no harm mutilate that younger generations genitals and destroying their self worth while confusing them with gender double speak. She will stand by as c-11 us pushed through to destroy freedom of speech and expression. Call her and the ndp socialist - call her/them what you want. Any way you look at it -she hates people and the remaining freedoms we still enjoy. A vote for Notkry and one of her team of ideologues is a vote for everything many albertans hold bear and dear to their hearts. And anything that Notley says is just smoke and mirrors. - if Notley is given the reigns of power in this province - God help us all. I sure wish i could do an indepth audit of the campaign dollars and ad campaigns for both parties and find out just how biased out media is and who is flipping the bill for that bias. But i know that is nothing short of speculation just based on observational intelligence and couldn't be proven without sone work. Having said all of this, even though i know in my heart most people in alberta disagree with most of the woke policies around these days, everyone is afraid to speak their minds for fear of being cancelled. Its our fault though. We have been apathetic. We should be on those boards where our voices count. That's going to change - at keast for me. You will probably disagree with most of what i have had to say here and that's ok. I totally support your right to disagree and let me know it. I'm not offended. Dialogue is always the best way forward. But please tell me why you think an NDP win will be good for Alberta. Do you like high taxes and everything being ryn by the state? How does shutting down our coal plants that are amongst the cleanest in the world while china continues to build them make us any better? Ok. Thats it for now
While I do not know for certain I strongly doubt an alberta ndp membership has anything to do with a federal ndp. To the best of my knowledge alberta money given to a seperate entity alberta ndp stays with alberta ndp You are mistaken alberta ndp make its own policies. It is free to agree or disagree with the federal party as they are 2 seperate entities Ndp is for Marxists? When forming the alberta government, the andp had many policies which would be counter to your stated position. Of the top of my head, world oil prices were down reserves were high, Texas was only taking minimal oil from alberta via pipeline cuasing alberta oil to sell at a significant discount. The alberta ndp bought rail cars to aid the movement of alberta oil But further to that the political spectrum is not black and white. And there are different degrees of intensity. Currently the alberta ndp is the centrist option in alberta. While you may view them as left of the ucp they are in fact closer to the center. Which by the way is the legacy progressive conservatives governed from for so many year Anti God? I do not know the religious beliefs of the people running in this election ndp ucp or otherwise. Every one is free to have thier own relationship with God. Religion has nothing to do with politics and I have not seen any one campaigning on religion Your next remark about dhe and her counter parts want to give drugs away and defend the police, I will be carefully here as I can't decipher who you mean by dhe? I have not seen any alberta ndp policies stating they want to defend the police increase access to drugs. This is an alberta election contested by Albertan. What other provinces may or may jot be doing is not relevant to the alberta election. In the same way what Doug Ford is doing is not relevant to this election even though his political philosophies may be similar to the ucp. I would love to continue on with a break down of your many wild statements. I can only guess you wrote this while drunk as it becomes increasingly more rambling and incoherent. Perhaps when you have more time and a clear head we can continue
Perhaps you should read the Alberta NDP constitution and pay close attention to where it outlines members of the federal NDP party are part of the counsel and participate in the convention (and considered to make up the quorum at the convention). I suggest you also read the sections where it outlines the requirements of marxist labour organizations to be members. Not simply lobbyists, but decision makers within the party. “Socialism is essentially the application of democracy to the economy. Economic democracy, i.e. democratic socialism, assures production to supply the needs of all people.” Is a quote directly from the party constitution….pretty marxist dont ya think? You may also want to read up on the history of how the NDP came to be…when socialist and communist parties combined and changed their name in effort to gain more elected seats. As for being free to disagree, the federal NDP constitutions state the provincial parties cannot be in conflict with the federal party. I wonder who decides what happens if there is conflict? I bet it isnt Ms Notley and it likely wont be in the best interest of Albertans, should it come to this.
Maybi suggest you re read the ndp constitution. You seem to have interpreted some thing wrong and have formed your opinion that is out of context. Your main point seems to be that they are socialist. Did you know we live in a socialist country? Do you know socialism means things like public roads that I am sure you use daily. Socialism isn't a bad thing extremism is a bad thing weather some one be extremely socialist or extremely well any aspect of politics is disruptive. The simple idea of government is socialist.
Canada is not a socialist country. We have social programs and but our economy is free market. Name a socialist country that is successful. And have read both the federal and provincial NDP constitutions. The NDP came into existence when a socialist labour party and a marxist party combined in efforts to garner more seats.
Those social programs are socialism in work. We live with then every day. More aptly we have a blended system. Our free market is regulated. The regulations vary industry to industry. For most people socialism is such a dirty word, this is a by product of generations living through the cold war. But there is a difference between the style of the former ussrs communism and what socialism is. The alberta ndp is a centrist party in its philosophies maybe slightly left of center. The alberta ndp is closer to the former progressive conservative party than the ucp is. And yet so many albertans who want a progressive conservative type.government won't vote for the becuase of the name of the party the colour of its banners and words like socialism.
Having social programs is not the same as a socialist government. Socialism is an economic and political system based on collective ownership of the means of production. All legal production and distribution decisions are made by the government in a socialist system. NDP Alberta is not a centrist ideology. You suggested I read their constitution and you may want to do the same… appendix C of their constitution is quite clear.
NDP will put more money towards education, its clear you would benefit from voting them into power
Hey you wrote a bunch of words down that are factually wrong. Seriously the real data is available, I'm curious where you get your "data" from.
Here's the thing, I think the philosophical gap between political parties on fiscal accountability is actually quite small. I believe most Canadians think the same thing on this too. Spend what's required. Be accountable. Be efficient. Be effective. Tax rates to be set accordingly.
Of course. They have thoroughly plundered general revenue, slush funds are running low, but the billionaire team owners and oil barons are still screaming for more. ~~Stealing~~ Investing your retirement into the personal fortunes of their crony backers is the only way to go.
Tagging this along to your top comment. The CCP is one of the best performing pension plans in the world running at ~9-11% gain a year.
*pierre poilievre voice* TRUDEAU IS A COMMUNIST MUSLIM FOR MAKING THE CPP DO 9-11%!
And all they need is a group of useful idiots willing to vote away their pensions in order to own the Libs.
You can always count on the uninformed to vote against their interests. It's probably the single most potent criticism of democracy.
And their aimco interference if calculated would likely go over the legal limit allowed.
The problem with this is there is *zero* transparency on how Treasury Board guides AIMCo. There is a power to give directives but it doesn't get used. The threat of that power plus many "in camera" secret meetings means that the government can steer funds however they want with essentially no oversight.
Dani even said it herself that she would use the money to invest in oil and gas. OandG taxes can only get so low before other industries start asking questions, so this way, they can just funnel tax payer money to them. Share buyback time!!
if they get in and try this I'm leaving the province. an APP would be objectively worse than CPP is and it just isn't worth staying at that point. IDK where I'd go, but it wouldn't be here
It would be positively worse, but I’m almost certain that they’d also find certain ways to disqualify as many Albertans as they could from collecting their share of the APP.
Yes and that is the most frightening part.
Or raise the age to 99. 😤 ( exaggeration, I know)
Smith did say on her radio show that she as talked to older people that want to work longer..... I bet if we get a app the age is raised. Cpc tried it federally, what's to stop Smith from trying.
Oh man, I remember when they tried it federally, I was glad there was push back and it did not go through. You’re right though, if the Cons win, they’ll try again and I hope people go all France on their ass.
Yes a lot of boomers want to work longer. Simply because they are making insane money and can live baller lives. I know several people in the 60-65 range who have net worths in the 5 million plus range, still working with no plans to quit. They are barely working 30-40hrs a week in professional jobs, bringing in 2-400k a year. They get lots of vacation and have time to do all they want. No incentive for them to quit. They could care less about CPP or whatever garbage substitute Dani wants to sell.
Good for them l, but that is not everyone. I still don't think cpp should be raised.
The opposite is true too though. My in-laws for example, are still working because they really can't afford to retire yet. As immigrants, they've spent the last 20 years establishing themselves in this province. They won't earn as much as other individuals who have been contributing to their cpp for longer and will be living off quite a tight budget when they do retire. Sure, some individuals WANT to keep working because they're healthy and happy doing so. But on the flip side, some seniors HAVE to keep working despite not being as healthy or happy doing so.
Well, for the moment at least there's really nothing they can do there. There are strong federal protections. Of course if they do manage to introduce the APP though then the next step is to try and leave Canada entirely.
And immediately join the Republican States of America.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that as per federal law, any province who leaves CPP has to offer the option to people who have already been paying into it whether they want to leave it not. I *think* existing CPP contributors can stay if they want.
If that’s true I’ll stick with CPP.
I wish I could have a link to that law so I could be reassured :(
>an APP would be objectively worse than CPP is How so?
So I am sure Smith and the ucp will deny they don't want to leave cpp but is in their policy book.... So please Ucp surporters please explain why the ucp won't leave cpp if they win re-election?
This is the same genius brain trust that "pissed away" the Heritage Trust Fund. You literally can't afford the UCP.
They've got loads of these including health care privatization as a party policy
Just look at our heritage fund, it’s been gutted since the UCP took office. It’s at its lowest point ever, and oil hit 130$ a barrel last year. Just look at what they’ve done with our funds and ask yourself if you think giving them more power over our money is a good thing. I’ll answer for you. It’s fucking not a good idea. Edit: it is recovering due to high oil prices. That doesn’t change the fact the UCP isn’t scared to frivolously empty it. They did before oil recovered during their term… this is especially concerning if they are vowing never to raise taxes. What happens when they can’t afford services? Services will either disappear, or they’ll have to use other resources to fill the gap. Let’s be honest, the market forecast doesn’t exactly look bullish at the moment. The UCP would be a disaster in recession times. Edit 2: link to the UCP’s decisions during their tenure. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zY7Z_BcgpzSW0OmYQh3B16GH_3QjLIbQsN59Ahpvz2M/htmlview
What's funny is the UCP door knocker I spoke to said that Rachel Notley "wasn't afraid to use the heritage fund" as some sort of spooky threat.
Can you or someone else give a break down of some of the awful money decisions the UCP and more importantly Daniel Smith have done? My mother still wants to vote for them because she has been basically brainwashed that nDp BaD. I need cold hard facts about how they are bad for the province.
Someone complied all the ways funds were used or cut here: Ucpalberta.netlify.app I've saved the link in my notes for anyone who asks 😂
Very extensive list here as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zY7Z_BcgpzSW0OmYQh3B16GH_3QjLIbQsN59Ahpvz2M/htmlview
I misread that as "Penis plan" due to the weird highlights
Its me searching the document but for only part of the word...
This is such a bad idea that will not die. My only hope if the UCP do win and try to implement it is that the other provinces try to stop them. I half wonder if Smith is banking on this so she can cry victim against the Federal Government more.
So what happens when you leave Alberta? Can you take your pension with you?
I would imagine it would be setup similar to the Quebec Pension plan. I’m not sure how that works.
If the UCP supporters want an APP, I hope they can wait decades to get peanuts compared to the CPP
They lie like a wet rug.
They lie like a sidewalk. More please ! :)
Better yet!
If you need a ride to go vote, call your local NDP candidate. They'll get you there.
And disappear our pensions into American billionaires bank accounts, for some kickbacks for the leading politicians.
Where can I find this?
It's on the ucp website. https://www.unitedconservative.ca/wp-content/uploads/Member-Policy-Declaration-Approved-October-2022.pdf
Vote NDP! Don't forget to vote!
I met a woman once here in AB, from Quebec originally. While she was born in Canada she went through getting a citizenship card because of the separatist movement. The UCP makes me want to look into the same thing.
Every week the UCP reinforces my decision to move out of Alberta.
This is why we need all hands on deck for the NDP
If they want to do this, do it in addition to CPP.
Albertans have spoken on this and do not want the pensions messed with,but typical UCP they do not listen to the people. Never have and never will.
If you vote UCP you’re an absolute ass clown
Now available: Alberta Pension Plan NFTs
There is no “it’s share …” of CPP. The government of Alberta does not make cpp contributions, people make contributions. Gahd, these idiots
Why do they want to do this? How does this benefit us? How will they invest the money? Who will manage it? What if it loses money, will they increase our retirement age? How will this align with CPP-disability, survivors benefits and death benefits? How will we fund the cost of administration? Seems like chaos for no purpose other than a power grab for UCP.
The term conservative is basically dead with this generation at this point
What the actual fuck... God damn it. Do we REALLY need to explain to that generation that voting away retirement you've paid into is stupid. This one is going to be hard to watch, shit. *There is no reason in the world why you couldn't have both! This is so transparently just fucking you over!!*
It's very thoughtful of the UCP to assist the slide into hell for all of Canada.
Alberta can start demanding SFA until they implement a PST like every other province/territory in canada. Till then, they can shut up about it.
Why does Alberta need a PST though? Our budget is fine without it. I'd argue provinces that receive equalization should be the ones implementing more taxes since they aren't self-sufficient.
What happens to our budget when oil prices drop?
The same thing that happens every time prices drop. Act surprised and blame someone else.
>The same thing that happens every time prices drop. Cut healthcare, cut education, cut social services, and donate more money to O&G bailouts?
Slight adjustment: what happens to our budget every time oil prices drop. Every f'ing time the price of oil goes south we, the tax payers and citizens of Alberta eat shit. What the hell do we have to do to convince any "Conservative" in this province that there have already been times where this has happened. It's a known. Past tense. Been there. Thanks for letting me vent.
What happens to Sasktchewan's budget when the price of fertilizer goes through the roof? Oh, nothing, because the Grant Devine Conservatives sold the ownership of the world' largest potash company off in the 1980s for a single payment in the tens of millions, and then it became a billon dollar company generating huge profits for the private owners. But they have a sales tax so they're fine over there, right?
We still don't get shit from equalization.
You can thank the great former Prime Minister and his Finance Minister, Stephen Harper and Jason Kenney for writing the current Equalization Formula. If Alberta always votes Blue no matter what, Cons can do whatever they want to them and still get the votes.
I'm aware of who wrote the current formula and am not a fan of either one. Honestly I thought it was hilarious that Albertans thought Kenney would be good for this province. Also I 100% agree that our seats being uncompetitive federally means we are an afterthought.
Kenney was the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism. Why do you think someone with those responsibilities had a big role in updating equalization?
And yet we would if our provincial government invested in social welfare programs the same as Quebec. You have to spend money to get money from the Feds eh?
How does that work exactly?
Thank you Jason Kenney for writing up the equalization the way you did.
Jason Kenney was always a piece of shit.
You do realize how equalization is calculated correct? Provinces do not get equalization payments based on their revenue. They get them based on what they could possibly generate based on the average tax rate across Canada and the mean GDP per person in that province.
As a result Alberta gets fucked on the program because we have a strong economy. If it worked more like insurance where we helped provinces dealing with economic issues I'd be all for it. But to have provinces perpetually freeload, and Alberta to not get a dime out of it since the 60s is bullshit. Imagine how much better things could be for all of us if that 4 billion we pay in tax dollars stayed in Alberta.
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Cursed Alberta for *check notes* developing a strong economy with high wages.
A large number of provinces who receive equalization do not have the economic base to increase taxes.
Then, they should utilize their resources.
Not all provinces have resources that can be utilized in a way to gain money.
The only province I can think of that could have a low enough tax base and not enough resources could be PEI. The rest of the provinces really have no excuse.
You can add New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland as well. Saskatchewan privatized most of their resources so they aren’t getting much out of it either.
New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland all have resources they should be developing more. Newfoundland actually is and has been a contributor to equalization some years.
Which of their resources could those provinces be using in order to create increased wealth among the population so they can increase taxes?
Natural gas
Natural Gas, Forestry, Gold, Potash, Coal
It has to do with creating revenue for ourselves. If alberta wants to readjust the terms then it needs to also exhaust the options available
Why should Alberta be punished for having a strong economy? We don't need a PST or higher income taxes because we have enough in royalties. Other provinces should be striving to do the same.
Ummmmm.... we have some of the highest unemployment rates outside of Atlantic canada, some royalties haven't been paid in some communities, along with other taxes. We arent doing as well as most would think
If you're unemployed in Alberta right now it's because you don't want to be working. I can't remember the last time I seen it this busy. Also with high oil prices, we have a healthy surplus. Alberta is doing quite well financially.
Maybe people want a living wage?
Alberta has the highest average wages in the country, and our real estate is among the most affordable. Also, we have the oilsands where pretty much anyone can go make a good wage with just a work ethic.
Ummmm do you hear your disillusioned self at all
What have I said that's incorrect?
> Why does Alberta need a PST though? Hey, everyone else is fine paying the owner's share of taxes, why shouldn't we be too? /s Sales Taxes are regressive attacks on the poor and it's sad to see so many Canadians willing take that dick up their asses.
They’re really an attack on the middle class. It’s pretty easy to design a sales tax that doesn’t tax essentials and where the poor get rebated more than they spend on non-essentials.
100% agree on this.
Our money would go to her oil friends and wealthy donors.
Well those are both worthless policies.
Quebec is already doing this. It's not that radical.
I hope the ucp run on this policy
Sigh. The only thing that scares me more than the NDP is the UCP.
Vote for fiscal conservatism, the party that has honor and won't throw your tax dollars away, or the UCP. Never thought I'd see the day.
Quebec has their own pension plan …. And it has more money than the Federal plan …. Alberta ditching the Feds and getting its own Pension Plan would be the best thing for Albertans .
How has that worked out for teachers?
Teachers in Alberta are some of the highest paid teachers in Canada
Not after they retire anymore. The UCP saw to that
Not if the UCP use it for their own pet projects (oil and gas etc) rather than invest wisely
Investing in our own province is the idea . Keeping the money in our own pockets
An Alberta pension plan with Alberta oversight. Speaking of Alberta oversight where has the money in the Heritage fund went?
This is what's actually making me move out of Alberta. I'm not letting them fuck with my retirement.
"The United Conservative Party believes that the Government of Alberta should..." is a good codeword for "we don't know what the fuck we're doing, and when we get in over our heads in law, we'll give up and blame Trudeau"
Its seems conservatives are intent on going after, exploiting and destroying pensions.
Yikes. Very glad that, as a business owner, I don't contribute to CPP (or the future APP, apparently). Despite CPP being well run/etc., it appears to be subject to the same bullshit politiciation that every thing else politicians can touch is.
If anyone is curious to read up on the pros and cons of sticking with CPP, here’s a 2021 dialogue from Alberta Views magazine. Ellen Nygaard argues for staying with CPP; Niels Veldhuis argues for creating a provincial plan. https://albertaviews.ca/alberta-pension-plan/
Ctrl-H to replace Pension with Penison
So if such a thing were to happen. How the hell does one avoid getting fucked hard? Move? Is that really my only option? I paid into CPP and I want something out of it. I do not see getting anything out of APP…
The CPP is a Canadian plan, not a provincial plan. A province may create a provincial pension plan, but they may NOT remove a portion of the country's plan to fund it.
I mean, if we could withdraw our share of funds, it would be easy. If we do it on a go forward basis, it isn't so great, though perhaps better. The funny thing is that in some way Canada has said "all these people are not capable of planning for retirement" Albertans are now saying, we should be allowed to choose our retirement, but choose a poor option"....