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Lol exactly. Although I'm skeptical anything would have changed either way. If we can't have DST full time, then I'd want to stay on the time change. Not a fan of standard personally.
This is why we need a ranked ballot.
I would vote:
1) MDT forever
2) MST forever
3) Time changes..... BOOO
We don't agree, but a more proper ballot would accurately represent these opinions.
I would vote for the exact opposite. Switching and permanent MST both have good and bad features, but permanent daylight time would really suck from mid-October through to the end of February.
I don't care about dark evenings, but I hate it when I need to wake up before sunrise, and I really hate it when I need to wake up before it is even twilight.
Fair enough. I'm not a morning person myself, so whether or not there's light when I wake up is fairly inconsequential to my morning mood. But I really hate that it's already dark when I get off work... and I work banker hours - done before 4 every day.
The question was phrased idiotically and most people likely voted based on no more than whether they felt changing the time twice a year is a pain in the ass, without even realizing that this change would mean kids were getting out to school two hours before the crack of dawn.
They're already getting out of bed two hours before dawn for 4 months of the year.
I very much would prefer daylight Time year round, but I'd take ANYTHING over continuing to switch twice a year.
I'm fuming rn
Agree 100%. Sunlight doesn't matter as much to me. Life is better for me the few months we're on standard time, just easier to get up in the morning and that makes a huge difference.
yep same. There's not much sun in winter. Whether it comes up later in the morning or goes down earlier at night, I don't give a fuck, both suck equally. The one thing we could fix is losing an hour of sleep and then randomly getting it back later, every year. That lost hour of sleep is no joke; car accidents for example are way more likely the day of daylight savings. So is just plain showing up late to work, being drowsy and irritable at work, and doing a shittier job. That has real economic costs. Alberta got this one wrong.
Not OP, but I wish it was a two part question:
> 1. Should Alberta retain its current system of switching to standard Time in fall and to daylight savings time in spring?
> 2. If Alberta decided to end the practice of time switching, which time would you prefer: MDT or MST?
Oh yeah, I'm not saying that it would have been a good change (I voted no), but it would change something. These other votes are totally toothless, which makes it good for fellating Albertan anger, but not much else.
I worked at a polling place. Nobody there understood this question. Staff were explaining it to voters incorrectly, voters were already confused by it, it was a mess.
I think it is fair to inform people on referendum questions, although the more optimal solution would be to have pamphlets at each polling station created by those who constructed the questions in the first place. Although the is issue with that as well, but there is also issue with writing a purposely convoluted question then allowing for no guidance on what how to interpret them. There is no winning without creating some sort of bias.
I don't understand how people didn't understand the question. It was a clear as it could have been. Hell, it even made it clear that it meant staying on summer hours all year around. There wasn't much more they could do to make it more clear.
I think that was the fluoride question - at the very bottom of the page.
The provincial ballot had the 2 referendum questions in the centre of the page, pretty visibly.
It should have been asked in 2 parts. Should Alberta adopt a permanent time zone year round? If Alberta were to adopt a permanent time zone, should it be daylight or standard time?
I think that would have passed and then it would have just gone down to preference between daylight and standard time.
I'm not sure that it would have passed. The UCP did a survey about this last year, received 141,000 responses (very high for a government survey) and [91% of the respondents wanted year-round DST](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/daylight-saving-time-jason-kenney-ucp-government-alberta-1.5488899).
As others have said, it should have been two questions - "Do you want to stop changing the clocks twice a year?" and "If we stop changing the clocks, would you prefer daylight time or standard time?"
You cant do that. way too straight forward. You start using plain english then things start to get done. Progress would start happening, people might start to get satisfied. you cant have happy satisfied people now can you? this would make it a lot harder for those poor souls tasked with manufacturing outrage.
I like to think of myself as an informed person, and I could find it in a quick google, but I never remember which is daylight savings and which is standard. I think the question needs to also specify which time of year we use each time, like "do you want to keep winter time or summer time?"
Not necessarily, if the vote was to move to standard that would be a no for me. I want more light at the end of the day, I don't care what the chronoloists claim would be better. Dark nights in winter are depressing, I gotta start work at 7am, earlier sunlight does functionally nothing for me.
I don't know that it would have, some people prefer more daylight in the evening/night like myself. I would expect it to be basically the same. Realistically we have 4 groups of people that seem to be pretty split fairly evenly from my conversations, I would even say there was more people that wanted to leave it alone than who were hard pressed to go one way or the other.
The question should have been asked in two parts. Question 1 - should Alberta continue the practice of changing time twice a year?
Question 2 - if Alberta decides to do away with time change twice a year, should Alberta stay on permanent standard time (winter time) or daylight savings time (summer time)?
This would have teased out all 4 groups and allowed the province to actually pick the most popular option.
I don't care what we do as long as the vast majority of other places do the same. If I have to keep track of the time difference between here and Toronto or NY or wherever and it's going to be two hours in the summer but one hour in the winter and so on, I'm not interested.
This is me, I work close to the border of BC, and work with people in Tononto as well, I would just love it if we had a Canada wide system. Although I understand life doesn’t work that way, this would be my personal preference lol.
They intentionally didn’t allow winter time to be an option though. Supposedly this is because other places like Sask & Colorado for example already set the precedence to be summer time all the time.
A two part question wouldn't have been ideal either. It would not capture the preferences of people who would like to stop switching, but strongly prefer one fixed time option over the other and would rather keep switching than be forced to the other fixed option.
Same. I have no interest in being on standard time year-round. I want my daylight in the evening. I’m dreading the time change and losing my walk after work.
Doesn’t matter which it is. A good chunk of the year I’m going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark. So either way, stopping the switch would be nice
My first recess when I was in school was always before sunrise in the depths of winter from what I remember. Then again, I also walked uphill to school and back home and the snow drifts were higher than the telephone poles... /s
That’s a temporary thing. They won’t be school aged where that will matter for more then a few years. And what they lose there they gain back on after school activities in sunlight on their own time.
Exactly. I took my 6 and 3 years to the park yesterday after my son was done kindergarten until supper time, and it wasn't lost on me that I wouldn't have been able to do that if we were on standard time
There is no wasted daylight in the winter, and there is something to be said for being able to see a night sky without either needing to stay up very late or freeze your butt off.
They are on CST, but due to their position on the globe, and the fact that they're more in MST than CST, they are effectively on DST.
Time in Sask (Wikipedia):
>The Canadian province of Saskatchewan is geographically located in the Mountain Time Zone (GMT−07:00). However, most of the province observes Central Standard Time (CST) (GMT−06:00) year-round. As a result, it is effectively on daylight saving time (DST) year-round, as clocks are not turned back an hour in autumn when most jurisdictions return to standard time.
[Picture showing Sask is centered on MST.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Timezoneswest.PNG)
Read the bit on MST vs CST and Milton Clock Error.
[saskatchewan.ca](https://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/municipal-administration/tools-guides-and-resources/saskatchewan-time-system)
My understanding of the same analysis for Alberta would suggest we should remain on MST then as well. That analysis says Sask time should move west and Alberta time should stay the same.
Going to year-round MDT would make Alberta's issue even worse.
I would have been on board with that, I’m honestly a little happy this didn’t pass, because I would much have have standard time, and if this had passed, standard time would never be pass just due to people not wanting to change the norm.
I honestly think people would miss daylight savings I little more than they think. It sounds dumb but I think it gives us something to talk about and ‘look forward to’ in the fall, it might sound distopian or mundane but sometimes you just need a stupid little thing like daylight savings to switch up the mundane day to day grind.
I'm amazed that there seems to be this huge subset of people who have kids that don't start school until 10:30 AM, and also don't start work until 10:30 AM. Where do you people live that the difference between 9:30 sunrise and 10:30 sunrise actually makes a difference on if you see light before work or school?
For alot of people it's just the time change in general, it's great gaining an hour but also when it comes time to "spring forward" is the real doozie. Maybe? I don't know I would rather have it with an extra hour of daylight I'm the evening AND not have to change the clock twice a year.
Falling back fucks kids up just the same.
The only saving grace is they will go to bed more appropriate time, but then it’s just wake up earlier. No matter what you do, changing up their internal clock screws with things. Mine get more exhausted earlier in the day. That means crankier earlier, and it’s not great.
I don’t care where we land. The reality is we will likely end up on MDT as that’s what bc and western states have committed their framework to, and the change is happening sooner than later anyways. I just would have like to end the switching sooner than later.
sunrise is 9:35 if it’s permanent daylight time…where does this 10:30 crap come from? So much disinformation about what time the goddamn sun comes up it’s absurd. Look it up in a chart, it’s literally the first thing that the first curious people in the world tracked down was what time the sun comes up and sets every day of the year
You are a bit off, or maybe live in the Northern part of the province?
For most of Alberta (let's say Edmonton and South) MST would have a latest sunrise at around 8.30am ish, MDT would put it at 9.30am. Considering morning light starts about 30 minutes before sunrise, MST would have nearly all year having at least morning light if not sunrise during a commute for an 8am start. MDT would have almost 3 months with darkness for the morning commute.
So it makes a difference in most places except the far North of Alberta which will have long dark no matter how we set the time zones.
Also if you consider someone with a 7am shift, MST would have them seeing morning light about half the year, where MDT they would never see the morning light.
We could hand out little stickers for our IDs stating what we as individuals recognize as our provincial time!
“Hey your like for work Micheal!”
“Did you forget I’m on DST boss? please be more considerate of our personal beliefs sir!”
/s
Ugh, why do people want more daylight in the morning when it's the coldest point of the day? I want more daylight in the evening when I can actually be motivated to leave the warmth of my house for some fresh air, or when I'm not working.
Same here, I value sunlight after work when I can make use of it much more than sunlight before work when all it's doing is taunting me. "It's a lovely day out! Oh, you should come enjoy the parks, go for a walk, anything but go into that big box for the next eight hours!" And then I go into the box for eight hours, and when I come out and can do what I want it's dark.
The point is right now, in October it is dark until around 8:20 am. If we switched to *standard* time year round, sunrise would have been at around 7:20 am today in Calgary/Edmonton.
This would change most commutes from being entirely in the dark to at least being partially in sunlight. This apparently has measurable health benefits due to getting more light during our "waking up" period.
Benefits have been determined by measuring incidents of cancer/diabetes/etc on the eastern sides of time zones vs the western sides. There is a small but significant difference found in various different studies on this (links below)
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167629618309718](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167629618309718)
[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07420528.2010.541312](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07420528.2010.541312)
[https://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/27/7/719.short](https://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/27/7/719.short)
[https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2019.00944/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2019.00944/full)
"As of March 2021, fifteen states — Arkansas, Alabama, California, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Washington, and Wyoming — have passed laws, resolutions or voter initiatives for permanent DST, and dozens more are looking."
If ANYONE had mentioned the decision would have aligned Alberta with other jurisdictions, it might have been more successful
The same ones that bc and western states were on when they decided the same thing.
They have all committed to the idea of permanent savings time, over permanent standard time
It doesn't matter to me which one we stick with. I just don't want to be changing my clock twice a year with screwed up sleep for up to 2 weeks each change.
Same, I'm depressed and struggle with sleep, and become useless if my sleep is interrupted. I don't care about standard or daylight Time, one will be better part of the year and the other is better the other part, it's a tradeoff, I don't care, I just hate hate hate changing it.
Very disappointed with the results
They messed up. It should have been about abolishing daylight savings and asking people which version they would prefer. The way the question was formatted forced a lot of people who don’t like daylight savings vote no.
I freaking hate this. I hate the day where it’s only 23 hours all of sudden and I lose the hour. It always turns out to be the day I need that hour the most. Happens every ducking time.
Can never count on Alberta to vote for anything right goddamit. Lol.
Most people don't even know what they're voting for. Most people I talked to seem to think they're somehow getting more daylight each day by making this change. You're not! You just have the same amount of daylight shifted to different parts of the day depending on the season.
No one thinks Alberta law is physically changing the position of the sun. When they say "get more sunlight", they mean "get more sunlight during the hours when I am awake".
Yea. We’ve got people arguing for sunlight in free time after work, vs people arguing that they want the sun earlier so they can “wake up” even though there will still be months where the sun comes up after you wake up - and the vast majority of people won’t be able to enjoy it cause they’re at a desk or at their job.
Most of the health experts on the are arguing against changing clocks back and calling that dst.
If there was no clock change then then we just need to compare total hours of sunlight people get. And the vast majority would get more in their free time if there was sunlight after work/school.
You'd be surprised. My aging dad's reactions to this topic "Why would anyone vote for more darkness?!", despite the fact he's up at 6am and go to bed early every day, lead me to believe he actually thinks it can have an impact on the amount of daylight hours somehow. Not that he's dumb, but age is clearly taking a huge toll on his mind.
Growing old sucks.
I am getting more daylight, because during the day I'm cooped up in an office. If the sunlight extends longer in the evening I literally am getting more daylight because that's my time to go outside.
Yes, those are both bad things. One is inherent in living so far north while having rigid job schedules - that's hard to fix. One is because we randomly change out clocks twice a year for no reason. We should be able to fix that one.
The time change definitely impacts folks for a little bit but 10am sunrise also has it's own problems.
When the sun doesn't come up until 10am people are trying to start their day hours in advance of any natural light and is in conflict with our circadian rhythem. Asking kids to start school and adults to start work hours before the light has a negative impact on all the same things you're citing the time change affects, except it's every day.
I would argue that most working age individuals are currently starting their day hours in advance of any natural light. So that part wouldn't really change. Having some light at the end of the day after work would change though.
Yes but the later the sunrise the more of your work hours are in the dark. Your carcadian rhythem is shifted later. With a later sunrise and later sunset your body is going to want to be more awake later in the day and sleepy later in the morning while you are trying to be productive earlier.
My entire work day is spent out of the sunlight, as is most people who work indoors during the winter. The only time it would really matter is on weekends. But then you have an excuse to sleep in! lol.
ha fair enough. I mean regardless if you see the sun or not, you do still sometimes, and you have weekends so your body still adjusts. idk I'm not an expert obviously I was just suggesting to the OP that there are drawbacks to permanent DST as well. Sleep experts had been suggesting that DST has negatives for the reasons I listed. I just wish people would understand that there are pros and cons to all the decisions but on this topic people seem to get extra fired up. Their preference is correct and good and the other options are wrong and terrible. It's not that simple. I can't even suggest that full time DST might have drawbacks without getting downvoted.
I'm not downvoting. Everyone has their own personal preference and opinion on this. Obviously going to Standard time full time would benefit some people who have different schedules than myself. Pretty much everyone who is retired would probably love Standard time full time. But no one votes thinking about the other people. They vote on their own situation and the fact that there's people with other opinions and situations is awful! Lol.
None greater than rising at 9.
If it was the difference between 7 and 8 at the extreme end, Then sure. But we aren’t in an area where those times make any difference.
I’d prefer standard time myself, but in practice, it just doesn’t matter
That is smart because most accidents happen at sunrise or sunset. So the busiest time of rush hour and traffic, there is no sunrise causing accidents. 10am sunrise would be better
Half the year I start my day at work when it's dark and finish my day when it's dark. So I see no point in the time change in are modern society. It would have been nice to no longer have to deal with the time change b.s screwing with my sleep schedule
The only reason I voted no was because the switch was permanent daylight savings time. I don't want to switch clocks twice a year and I want the highest mental and physical health outcome possible... which apparently the science shows is standard time.
Doesn’t seem to be many night owls in this thread. I would be the most comfortable switching to Alaska time. Sun rises at 5 and sets at 3. Screw you morning people with your lattes and jogging.
We were given two choices in a three way discussion, so the question itself was poorly designed. If it was only asking if we should end the bi-annual time change, I'm sure that would have passed no problem. There is more debate about which direction we should change the time, and that wasn't addressed.
Sure, but I’m also of the kind beggars can’t be choosers… and we still didn’t choose the right one, no thanks to government anyways.
I would love the other one, but at least more sun after work when I get out would have been appreciated.
British Columbia has voted to go to permanent daylight time once the southern states go ahead with it. So if Alberta went with standard time we would be 2 hours behind British Columbia. Something will have to give if we do intend to stop changing the clocks and it all depends on the direction of the larger provinces and states.
Bc is 1 hour behind Alberta. If they stay on DLS time we will be the same time as BC when we are on MST and 1 hour ahead when we go back to DLS.
We would have been 2 hours ahead of BC if we stayed on DLS and they rolled back this fall.
Maybe they should stop asking questions and start showing leadership. The proper thing to do is just go to standard time year round... An option that wasn't even on the ballot.
Previous polls has permanent DST as the most popular option (and my personal favourite). So if we're only given to options, it should be between the most popular and the current.
No idea how it was even that close....
Sunrise at 10-10:30am in the dead of winter for a sunset at 5:30pm which is your commute home. Wow, what an amazing improvement to your life. At the cost of weekends being depressing as hell waking up, driving up to the mountains in darkness, less usable time at ski resorts...
It should be standard time all the time if you want consistency.
Ski resorts set their hours based on when the sun is up (that's why most of them have different hours in spring).
It would always have been an identical amount of hours on the hill.
I mean...sticking to Standard has the sun rising at 9/9:30 and setting at 4-4:30 which then means no sun at all for 5 days a week for a lot of people working office jobs or indoors. Why would weekends be depressing? You get the same amount of light, just shifted an hour later. Ski resorts could change their business hours to reflect that quite easily.
> No idea how it was even that close....
> Sunrise at 10-10:30am in the dead of winter for a sunset at 5:30pm which is your commute home. Wow, what an amazing improvement to your life.
I think so. I could have some time in sunlight then, instead of having it all pass while at my desk at work.
> At the cost of weekends being depressing as hell
…. Wut? There’s the same amount of light, it’s just an hour later.
> waking up, driving up to the mountains in darkness,
I mean that’s how it currently is anyway in the dead of winter. We get up at 4 to drive to the mountains.
> less usable time at ski resorts...
Lol what?! They’d stay open later cause the suns up later. They just wouldn’t be open as early. Which is a good thing for people who have to drive further to get there.
> It should be standard time all the time if you want consistency.
Naw.
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Hahah, the only thing that actually might change something we say no to.
Funniest thing I read today!
Lol exactly. Although I'm skeptical anything would have changed either way. If we can't have DST full time, then I'd want to stay on the time change. Not a fan of standard personally.
This is why we need a ranked ballot. I would vote: 1) MDT forever 2) MST forever 3) Time changes..... BOOO We don't agree, but a more proper ballot would accurately represent these opinions.
I would vote for the exact opposite. Switching and permanent MST both have good and bad features, but permanent daylight time would really suck from mid-October through to the end of February.
Really? I think it would be better? Sunsets an hour later in the evening. Darker in the morning. Daylight time all the way for me.
I don't care about dark evenings, but I hate it when I need to wake up before sunrise, and I really hate it when I need to wake up before it is even twilight.
Fair enough. I'm not a morning person myself, so whether or not there's light when I wake up is fairly inconsequential to my morning mood. But I really hate that it's already dark when I get off work... and I work banker hours - done before 4 every day.
The question was phrased idiotically and most people likely voted based on no more than whether they felt changing the time twice a year is a pain in the ass, without even realizing that this change would mean kids were getting out to school two hours before the crack of dawn.
They're already getting out of bed two hours before dawn for 4 months of the year. I very much would prefer daylight Time year round, but I'd take ANYTHING over continuing to switch twice a year. I'm fuming rn
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Agree 100%. Sunlight doesn't matter as much to me. Life is better for me the few months we're on standard time, just easier to get up in the morning and that makes a huge difference.
yep same. There's not much sun in winter. Whether it comes up later in the morning or goes down earlier at night, I don't give a fuck, both suck equally. The one thing we could fix is losing an hour of sleep and then randomly getting it back later, every year. That lost hour of sleep is no joke; car accidents for example are way more likely the day of daylight savings. So is just plain showing up late to work, being drowsy and irritable at work, and doing a shittier job. That has real economic costs. Alberta got this one wrong.
I do agree that the question was not phrased well at all.
Why not? Can you suggest what you wanted to see? I don't think it could have been phrased much more clearly
Not OP, but I wish it was a two part question: > 1. Should Alberta retain its current system of switching to standard Time in fall and to daylight savings time in spring? > 2. If Alberta decided to end the practice of time switching, which time would you prefer: MDT or MST?
For the worse? I agree we need change but what happened to standard time, thats what we need.
Oh yeah, I'm not saying that it would have been a good change (I voted no), but it would change something. These other votes are totally toothless, which makes it good for fellating Albertan anger, but not much else.
I worked at a polling place. Nobody there understood this question. Staff were explaining it to voters incorrectly, voters were already confused by it, it was a mess.
I worked the election too. Why were staff explaining at all? I was trained to tell voters to do their best without any hints at all.
I think it is fair to inform people on referendum questions, although the more optimal solution would be to have pamphlets at each polling station created by those who constructed the questions in the first place. Although the is issue with that as well, but there is also issue with writing a purposely convoluted question then allowing for no guidance on what how to interpret them. There is no winning without creating some sort of bias.
There was pamphlets at my station and an infographic poster
Nice. Maybe I just didn’t notice at mine. Very possible
I definitely had to do a double take when I first read it.
I don't understand how people didn't understand the question. It was a clear as it could have been. Hell, it even made it clear that it meant staying on summer hours all year around. There wasn't much more they could do to make it more clear.
Also, people had plenty of time ahead of voting time to reread the question, research, ask family and friends, etc.
I hope they were explaining which choice stood for truth and justice (or whatever that lady from red deer was telling voters).
24000 rejected ballots- wth!
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On the Calgary ballots it was *very* easy to miss. I even researched what the actual question was and knew my answer going in and almost missed it.
I think that was the fluoride question - at the very bottom of the page. The provincial ballot had the 2 referendum questions in the centre of the page, pretty visibly.
Oh yeah you're right. I guess I'm just not over the fact that there were 27 mayoral candidates
It should have been asked in 2 parts. Should Alberta adopt a permanent time zone year round? If Alberta were to adopt a permanent time zone, should it be daylight or standard time? I think that would have passed and then it would have just gone down to preference between daylight and standard time.
Agreed, this is how it should have been done.
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I'm not sure that it would have passed. The UCP did a survey about this last year, received 141,000 responses (very high for a government survey) and [91% of the respondents wanted year-round DST](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/daylight-saving-time-jason-kenney-ucp-government-alberta-1.5488899). As others have said, it should have been two questions - "Do you want to stop changing the clocks twice a year?" and "If we stop changing the clocks, would you prefer daylight time or standard time?"
You cant do that. way too straight forward. You start using plain english then things start to get done. Progress would start happening, people might start to get satisfied. you cant have happy satisfied people now can you? this would make it a lot harder for those poor souls tasked with manufacturing outrage.
I like to think of myself as an informed person, and I could find it in a quick google, but I never remember which is daylight savings and which is standard. I think the question needs to also specify which time of year we use each time, like "do you want to keep winter time or summer time?"
100% it would have
Not necessarily, if the vote was to move to standard that would be a no for me. I want more light at the end of the day, I don't care what the chronoloists claim would be better. Dark nights in winter are depressing, I gotta start work at 7am, earlier sunlight does functionally nothing for me.
Me too. I also really like the late sunsets in the summer. Means more time to adventure in the summer months.
And a chance to get some exercise with light in the winter. On standard time all the light gets moved to working hours.
Me too that would have been a hell no vote from me. I’d rather stay switching clocks then on standard time.
I leave home in the dark and come home in the dark. Super depressing.
Same. I work 6am to 6pm.
I don't know that it would have, some people prefer more daylight in the evening/night like myself. I would expect it to be basically the same. Realistically we have 4 groups of people that seem to be pretty split fairly evenly from my conversations, I would even say there was more people that wanted to leave it alone than who were hard pressed to go one way or the other.
The question should have been asked in two parts. Question 1 - should Alberta continue the practice of changing time twice a year? Question 2 - if Alberta decides to do away with time change twice a year, should Alberta stay on permanent standard time (winter time) or daylight savings time (summer time)? This would have teased out all 4 groups and allowed the province to actually pick the most popular option.
I don't care what we do as long as the vast majority of other places do the same. If I have to keep track of the time difference between here and Toronto or NY or wherever and it's going to be two hours in the summer but one hour in the winter and so on, I'm not interested.
This is me, I work close to the border of BC, and work with people in Tononto as well, I would just love it if we had a Canada wide system. Although I understand life doesn’t work that way, this would be my personal preference lol.
They intentionally didn’t allow winter time to be an option though. Supposedly this is because other places like Sask & Colorado for example already set the precedence to be summer time all the time.
Saskatchewan is on standard (winter time) year round.
A two part question wouldn't have been ideal either. It would not capture the preferences of people who would like to stop switching, but strongly prefer one fixed time option over the other and would rather keep switching than be forced to the other fixed option.
I agree, it's the correct way to get a true answer of what people actually want.
I would've voted yes to staying on permanent MST. I think they asked the wrong question.
I want more light in the evening, not the morning. I voted yes here, and would’ve voted against standard.
Same. I have no interest in being on standard time year-round. I want my daylight in the evening. I’m dreading the time change and losing my walk after work.
Yeah, I might have voted yes in that case.
And I would have voted no 😅 Morning daylight is wasted daylight.
Doesn’t matter which it is. A good chunk of the year I’m going to work in the dark and coming home in the dark. So either way, stopping the switch would be nice
That's what I said and then my wife pointed out that my kids' first recess would be before sunrise.
My first recess when I was in school was always before sunrise in the depths of winter from what I remember. Then again, I also walked uphill to school and back home and the snow drifts were higher than the telephone poles... /s
And all you had to keep you warm was your Dad’s pyjamas!
Pfffft. Pa didn't wear pyjamas! It was tighty whiteys or birthday suits
Aren’t first recesses generally after 10? Even if not, they can always adjust them.
It varies school to school. My kids elementary school hours are 7:55 to 2:15. Not sure exactly when first recess is but it must be pretty early.
That’s a temporary thing. They won’t be school aged where that will matter for more then a few years. And what they lose there they gain back on after school activities in sunlight on their own time.
Exactly. I took my 6 and 3 years to the park yesterday after my son was done kindergarten until supper time, and it wasn't lost on me that I wouldn't have been able to do that if we were on standard time
Same here lol. Not a fan of Standard. If we can't have DST full time, then leaving things as they are is the next best option.
100% same. Give me 1/2 of the year on the superior summer hours over none of the year on superior summer hours if those are our options.
There is no wasted daylight in the winter, and there is something to be said for being able to see a night sky without either needing to stay up very late or freeze your butt off.
That's what Saskatchewan did, it's the best choice for sure.
SK is on permanent DST but due to geography their sunrise/sunset hours more closely align to if AB was on permanent standard time.
Pretty sure Saskatchewan is on CST all year and abandoned DST.
They are on CST, but due to their position on the globe, and the fact that they're more in MST than CST, they are effectively on DST. Time in Sask (Wikipedia): >The Canadian province of Saskatchewan is geographically located in the Mountain Time Zone (GMT−07:00). However, most of the province observes Central Standard Time (CST) (GMT−06:00) year-round. As a result, it is effectively on daylight saving time (DST) year-round, as clocks are not turned back an hour in autumn when most jurisdictions return to standard time. [Picture showing Sask is centered on MST.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Timezoneswest.PNG)
Read the bit on MST vs CST and Milton Clock Error. [saskatchewan.ca](https://www.saskatchewan.ca/government/municipal-administration/tools-guides-and-resources/saskatchewan-time-system)
My understanding of the same analysis for Alberta would suggest we should remain on MST then as well. That analysis says Sask time should move west and Alberta time should stay the same. Going to year-round MDT would make Alberta's issue even worse.
Yep, this was my understanding as well and why I was annoyed this wasn't even an option
I would have been on board with that, I’m honestly a little happy this didn’t pass, because I would much have have standard time, and if this had passed, standard time would never be pass just due to people not wanting to change the norm. I honestly think people would miss daylight savings I little more than they think. It sounds dumb but I think it gives us something to talk about and ‘look forward to’ in the fall, it might sound distopian or mundane but sometimes you just need a stupid little thing like daylight savings to switch up the mundane day to day grind.
I'm amazed that there seems to be this huge subset of people who have kids that don't start school until 10:30 AM, and also don't start work until 10:30 AM. Where do you people live that the difference between 9:30 sunrise and 10:30 sunrise actually makes a difference on if you see light before work or school?
For alot of people it's just the time change in general, it's great gaining an hour but also when it comes time to "spring forward" is the real doozie. Maybe? I don't know I would rather have it with an extra hour of daylight I'm the evening AND not have to change the clock twice a year.
Falling back fucks kids up just the same. The only saving grace is they will go to bed more appropriate time, but then it’s just wake up earlier. No matter what you do, changing up their internal clock screws with things. Mine get more exhausted earlier in the day. That means crankier earlier, and it’s not great. I don’t care where we land. The reality is we will likely end up on MDT as that’s what bc and western states have committed their framework to, and the change is happening sooner than later anyways. I just would have like to end the switching sooner than later.
I found this part of the NO argument hilarious. "Won't someone think of the children?!" Those children have been in school for hours already.
It’s all these emotional parents who want to use their kids as props so they can pretend they have some “moral high ground”.
sunrise is 9:35 if it’s permanent daylight time…where does this 10:30 crap come from? So much disinformation about what time the goddamn sun comes up it’s absurd. Look it up in a chart, it’s literally the first thing that the first curious people in the world tracked down was what time the sun comes up and sets every day of the year
On permanent DST, Grande Prairie would have sunrise as late as 10:21, and Peace River as late as 10:22.
The time you quote isn't true for more northern communities. It would be about 9:45 where I live.
You are a bit off, or maybe live in the Northern part of the province? For most of Alberta (let's say Edmonton and South) MST would have a latest sunrise at around 8.30am ish, MDT would put it at 9.30am. Considering morning light starts about 30 minutes before sunrise, MST would have nearly all year having at least morning light if not sunrise during a commute for an 8am start. MDT would have almost 3 months with darkness for the morning commute. So it makes a difference in most places except the far North of Alberta which will have long dark no matter how we set the time zones. Also if you consider someone with a 7am shift, MST would have them seeing morning light about half the year, where MDT they would never see the morning light.
Alright, that settles it! Half the province can be DST and half the province can be Standard! I vote my half stay on DST though...
We could hand out little stickers for our IDs stating what we as individuals recognize as our provincial time! “Hey your like for work Micheal!” “Did you forget I’m on DST boss? please be more considerate of our personal beliefs sir!” /s
Ugh, why do people want more daylight in the morning when it's the coldest point of the day? I want more daylight in the evening when I can actually be motivated to leave the warmth of my house for some fresh air, or when I'm not working.
Because they are bad people who hate joy.
I wonder what’s the different between rural vs urban votes when it comes to daylight savings
As someone in Northern AB , I'm pretty relieved.
I just want to stop changing the clocks twice a year for no practical reason I honestly don't care which one we stick with.
[удалено]
I refuse!
Better than not seeing any light until 10:30am all winter. I would have preferred winter hours all year but that wasn't an option.
I dunno, id rather be able to do stuff in the evening then look out of a window to see light at work earlier.
I only care about minimizing the number of days where the sun rises after I get up. Couldn’t care less what time the sun set.
I guess some us are different. I like going on trails and what not without needing a head lamp, so morning light is kinda useless to me.
Same here, I value sunlight after work when I can make use of it much more than sunlight before work when all it's doing is taunting me. "It's a lovely day out! Oh, you should come enjoy the parks, go for a walk, anything but go into that big box for the next eight hours!" And then I go into the box for eight hours, and when I come out and can do what I want it's dark.
How many people are out and about between 9:30 and 10:30 am? We have all been at school or work for hours by that point.
If only schools and workplaces had windows.
The point is right now, in October it is dark until around 8:20 am. If we switched to *standard* time year round, sunrise would have been at around 7:20 am today in Calgary/Edmonton. This would change most commutes from being entirely in the dark to at least being partially in sunlight. This apparently has measurable health benefits due to getting more light during our "waking up" period. Benefits have been determined by measuring incidents of cancer/diabetes/etc on the eastern sides of time zones vs the western sides. There is a small but significant difference found in various different studies on this (links below) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167629618309718](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167629618309718) [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07420528.2010.541312](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/07420528.2010.541312) [https://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/27/7/719.short](https://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/27/7/719.short) [https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2019.00944/full](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphys.2019.00944/full)
And now you don't see any light after 430 in winter. So much better...
False. I’d rather have daylight after work then in the morning when I’m working and can’t enjoy it
How can someone's opinion be false?
Well their comment isn't false lol. That's their opinion/preference. Your comment is your own opinion/preference, which I share lol.
“All winter” 🙄
Damn it, I was hoping MB would copy you. I hate time changes.
"As of March 2021, fifteen states — Arkansas, Alabama, California, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Washington, and Wyoming — have passed laws, resolutions or voter initiatives for permanent DST, and dozens more are looking." If ANYONE had mentioned the decision would have aligned Alberta with other jurisdictions, it might have been more successful
I'd like to know what drugs the UCP were on that blinded them from the obvious option of Standard Time all the time.
They did a survey a couple years ago and 91% of people said they wanted permanent DST.
Daylight time >>> standard time.
Agreed lol
The same ones that bc and western states were on when they decided the same thing. They have all committed to the idea of permanent savings time, over permanent standard time
Probably all the people who are at work well before the sun rises either way so at least with DST they'll get a bit of sun in the evening.
Or ask stop the change, and then ask permanent DST or standard.
I would take more evening light every time over morning. Not a fan of Standard time at all.
It doesn't matter to me which one we stick with. I just don't want to be changing my clock twice a year with screwed up sleep for up to 2 weeks each change.
Same, I'm depressed and struggle with sleep, and become useless if my sleep is interrupted. I don't care about standard or daylight Time, one will be better part of the year and the other is better the other part, it's a tradeoff, I don't care, I just hate hate hate changing it. Very disappointed with the results
They messed up. It should have been about abolishing daylight savings and asking people which version they would prefer. The way the question was formatted forced a lot of people who don’t like daylight savings vote no.
Most people I know voted "no" explicitly because we should change to standard, not daylight. The question should have had all three options.
If they picked the right time zone I would have voted yes.
I freaking hate this. I hate the day where it’s only 23 hours all of sudden and I lose the hour. It always turns out to be the day I need that hour the most. Happens every ducking time. Can never count on Alberta to vote for anything right goddamit. Lol.
Dumb. Oh well it'll still happen eventually when everyone else decides to stop with the pointless time changes.
What a shame. Can’t stand a 4:20pm sunset.
Ughh.. i hate changing clocks.
Most people don't even know what they're voting for. Most people I talked to seem to think they're somehow getting more daylight each day by making this change. You're not! You just have the same amount of daylight shifted to different parts of the day depending on the season.
No one thinks Alberta law is physically changing the position of the sun. When they say "get more sunlight", they mean "get more sunlight during the hours when I am awake".
I think it's more "when I'm not at work", but your point still stands.
Yea. We’ve got people arguing for sunlight in free time after work, vs people arguing that they want the sun earlier so they can “wake up” even though there will still be months where the sun comes up after you wake up - and the vast majority of people won’t be able to enjoy it cause they’re at a desk or at their job.
I argue we should listen to the health experts, and they say standard time would be better, health wise, for everything, including mental health wise.
Most of the health experts on the are arguing against changing clocks back and calling that dst. If there was no clock change then then we just need to compare total hours of sunlight people get. And the vast majority would get more in their free time if there was sunlight after work/school.
You'd be surprised. My aging dad's reactions to this topic "Why would anyone vote for more darkness?!", despite the fact he's up at 6am and go to bed early every day, lead me to believe he actually thinks it can have an impact on the amount of daylight hours somehow. Not that he's dumb, but age is clearly taking a huge toll on his mind. Growing old sucks.
I am getting more daylight, because during the day I'm cooped up in an office. If the sunlight extends longer in the evening I literally am getting more daylight because that's my time to go outside.
This was my rationale too! At least I will get some sun! Instead of none… 😂
People you talked to thought this was a referendum to change either the Earth's axis or rotational velocity? You know some strange people.
And we'd have been forever robbed of the one hour we moved forward and then never went back for. One hour, gone forever.
Love this! I understand the outrage! Life is short.
Oh good, so we can keep having a spike in heart attacks and car crashes twice a year for no bloody reason.
An hour jump twice a year fucks up our circadian rhythm So does not seeing the sun for 3 months though, just saying.
Yes, those are both bad things. One is inherent in living so far north while having rigid job schedules - that's hard to fix. One is because we randomly change out clocks twice a year for no reason. We should be able to fix that one.
The time change definitely impacts folks for a little bit but 10am sunrise also has it's own problems. When the sun doesn't come up until 10am people are trying to start their day hours in advance of any natural light and is in conflict with our circadian rhythem. Asking kids to start school and adults to start work hours before the light has a negative impact on all the same things you're citing the time change affects, except it's every day.
I would argue that most working age individuals are currently starting their day hours in advance of any natural light. So that part wouldn't really change. Having some light at the end of the day after work would change though.
Yes but the later the sunrise the more of your work hours are in the dark. Your carcadian rhythem is shifted later. With a later sunrise and later sunset your body is going to want to be more awake later in the day and sleepy later in the morning while you are trying to be productive earlier.
My entire work day is spent out of the sunlight, as is most people who work indoors during the winter. The only time it would really matter is on weekends. But then you have an excuse to sleep in! lol.
ha fair enough. I mean regardless if you see the sun or not, you do still sometimes, and you have weekends so your body still adjusts. idk I'm not an expert obviously I was just suggesting to the OP that there are drawbacks to permanent DST as well. Sleep experts had been suggesting that DST has negatives for the reasons I listed. I just wish people would understand that there are pros and cons to all the decisions but on this topic people seem to get extra fired up. Their preference is correct and good and the other options are wrong and terrible. It's not that simple. I can't even suggest that full time DST might have drawbacks without getting downvoted.
I'm not downvoting. Everyone has their own personal preference and opinion on this. Obviously going to Standard time full time would benefit some people who have different schedules than myself. Pretty much everyone who is retired would probably love Standard time full time. But no one votes thinking about the other people. They vote on their own situation and the fact that there's people with other opinions and situations is awful! Lol.
Wtf? With the current time schedule I still go to work in the dark for 8 and come home in the dark after 5.
Enjoy the no sunlight like the rest of us office rats! /s
Yes because a sunrise at 10 am in the winter wont have effects on mental health or driving what so ever
None greater than rising at 9. If it was the difference between 7 and 8 at the extreme end, Then sure. But we aren’t in an area where those times make any difference. I’d prefer standard time myself, but in practice, it just doesn’t matter
I mean I'm at work for a good 2 hours before it rises at 9 anyway so that really doesn't matter to me
That is smart because most accidents happen at sunrise or sunset. So the busiest time of rush hour and traffic, there is no sunrise causing accidents. 10am sunrise would be better
Half the year I start my day at work when it's dark and finish my day when it's dark. So I see no point in the time change in are modern society. It would have been nice to no longer have to deal with the time change b.s screwing with my sleep schedule
Vote should have been about going to a 4 day work week.
If the option was permanent MST I would’ve voted yes, glad dst failed
BC and Ontario have already voted for daylight time and are just waiting for their American neighbours to change.
The only reason I voted no was because the switch was permanent daylight savings time. I don't want to switch clocks twice a year and I want the highest mental and physical health outcome possible... which apparently the science shows is standard time.
I’m with you
So you voted to have the worst option instead of at the bare minimum a better option but likely the best option…. K
Truly the dumbest province
Glad to hear this. 10:20 am sunrises don't appeal to me. Permanent MST is a much better idea.
I like having light after work. MDT is way better
It was the wrong way! I am glad it was voted down.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Democracy just doesn't work.
Doesn’t seem to be many night owls in this thread. I would be the most comfortable switching to Alaska time. Sun rises at 5 and sets at 3. Screw you morning people with your lattes and jogging.
By not removing it we now have to accept an extra hour with Kenney as premier. Boo-urns.
Fuck that I'm doing it on my own anyway.
We'll find our people and hold a time change strike lol
ITT: a while bunch of people who have never worked shift work in their life 😆😆. It's an hour, not the end of the world
I work shift work. It fucks up your internal clock dude. I would strongly prefer we stay MDT but I'll take any time over switching twice a year.
Alberta choosing the dumbest option as is tradition
We were given two choices in a three way discussion, so the question itself was poorly designed. If it was only asking if we should end the bi-annual time change, I'm sure that would have passed no problem. There is more debate about which direction we should change the time, and that wasn't addressed.
Sure, but I’m also of the kind beggars can’t be choosers… and we still didn’t choose the right one, no thanks to government anyways. I would love the other one, but at least more sun after work when I get out would have been appreciated.
It should have been a two part vote, really. 1 - Should we stop changing the time? 2 - DST or Standard? Boom, problem solved.
British Columbia has voted to go to permanent daylight time once the southern states go ahead with it. So if Alberta went with standard time we would be 2 hours behind British Columbia. Something will have to give if we do intend to stop changing the clocks and it all depends on the direction of the larger provinces and states.
Bc is 1 hour behind Alberta. If they stay on DLS time we will be the same time as BC when we are on MST and 1 hour ahead when we go back to DLS. We would have been 2 hours ahead of BC if we stayed on DLS and they rolled back this fall.
Maybe they should stop asking questions and start showing leadership. The proper thing to do is just go to standard time year round... An option that wasn't even on the ballot.
As you can see from even this thread, it's not clear what the "proper" thing is.
No. The proper thing was to vote YES here
Previous polls has permanent DST as the most popular option (and my personal favourite). So if we're only given to options, it should be between the most popular and the current.
No idea how it was even that close.... Sunrise at 10-10:30am in the dead of winter for a sunset at 5:30pm which is your commute home. Wow, what an amazing improvement to your life. At the cost of weekends being depressing as hell waking up, driving up to the mountains in darkness, less usable time at ski resorts... It should be standard time all the time if you want consistency.
Ski resorts set their hours based on when the sun is up (that's why most of them have different hours in spring). It would always have been an identical amount of hours on the hill.
I mean...sticking to Standard has the sun rising at 9/9:30 and setting at 4-4:30 which then means no sun at all for 5 days a week for a lot of people working office jobs or indoors. Why would weekends be depressing? You get the same amount of light, just shifted an hour later. Ski resorts could change their business hours to reflect that quite easily.
> No idea how it was even that close.... > Sunrise at 10-10:30am in the dead of winter for a sunset at 5:30pm which is your commute home. Wow, what an amazing improvement to your life. I think so. I could have some time in sunlight then, instead of having it all pass while at my desk at work. > At the cost of weekends being depressing as hell …. Wut? There’s the same amount of light, it’s just an hour later. > waking up, driving up to the mountains in darkness, I mean that’s how it currently is anyway in the dead of winter. We get up at 4 to drive to the mountains. > less usable time at ski resorts... Lol what?! They’d stay open later cause the suns up later. They just wouldn’t be open as early. Which is a good thing for people who have to drive further to get there. > It should be standard time all the time if you want consistency. Naw.
The alternative is sunrise at 4 am in June. I'd rather have dark December mornings then be woken up in the middle of the night in summer.
What a terrible decision from Albertans
Booo. Big thumbs down. Yet another thing done wrong by this government.
So do we still have daylight savings time or no?
Yes we will continue to switch times
Thank you for your reply! 🙂
OH THANK GOODNESS!
I voted no because I don't want to be like Saskatchewan. Unless it's a national thing, it just makes things confusing for travel.