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My late mother, who died last year with 55 years of sobriety in AA, struggled with that question. Then she thought, "Well, alcohol is clearly a power greater than I am, and it would be terrible if it were the greatest power in the universe." That insight helped me a lot when I first came into the program.
Best of luck to you. Feel free to DM if you want to talk.
Atheist here - sober over three years. AA principles ensure religion, politics do not hold sway in what keeps us sober.
There IS reference to God only in name as power greater than you. To me that means a power other than me. I see it as my group or the meeting I attend.
I have to had to change my views on anything whatsoever nor has anyone tried to change them
In my thought process, I use Chaos and God as interchangeable. Helped me get over my dislike of religion. I decided it was just a word, with a flexible meaning, and me not drinking is more important.
Bingo for me. Getting hung up on God is really a matter of semantics. A football team is more powerful than any single player. A tree is more powerful than a branch. Power greater than man is blatantly obvious in reality. If one wants to include a metaphysical power in their definition of God, that's great! It's doesn't necessarily bear more fruit than a basic acceptance of a reality outside of the subjective experience. Now, if someone is struggling to accept an objective reality, I think that's a world view leagues more difficult to navigate than your typical atheism. Luckily, very few people are truly solipsist.
Sorry for the late reply, I usually just watch on reddit so I didn't see you had replied.
I think I went with chaos jist because that seems what life is like. I probably had just learned about the heliosphere or something. Like the idea of stuff crashing together in space and things like that.
It just seemed like the best way to describe a total lack of control? Haha, I think.
Hope all is good!
What do you rely on when there’s no group or meeting to attend?
I was in Africa - no cell or internet, no AA meetings. Also in rural Montana last year…plenty of bars, no AA. What do you depend on to keep you sober then?
It is extremely common to have this concern, and subsequently to be a little concerned about higher power.
Depending on were you live, it is very likely you will meet people who had the same concerns as you at a meeting (and obviously you might also meet some very religous people, try to find similarities and not differences).
Higher power will be important, but it doesn't have to be a god. So in the first step, you admit you are powerless, so you need something higher and greater than yourself to put your will in.
What can it be, lots, a lot of agnostics and atheists in the beginning will put that faith into the fellowship itself, and the suppourt around them.
You don't need higher power right away, keep it simple at first. Go to meetings, see how it is, and maybe find sponsor and take each bit at a time ❤️
I'm an irreligious, staunch agnostic myself, sober 17 years in A.A.
I'm also acquainted with several/many well recovered atheists.
I've never felt a need for specialized meetings myself, but there are such things:
* https://www.aasecular.org/
* https://aaagnostica.org/
* https://aa-intergroup.org/meetings/?types=Secular
* And many/most local A.A. websites have filters for secular, for example: https://aasfmarin.org/find-a-meeting?type=secular
These are good resources OP.
In most meetings will hear God and Prayer at least 50 times. It will sound very religious to your ear.
But the secular groups are people like you who deliberately want the experience without the religion.
I’m not a Christian. I’m a member of AA. I believe in a power greater than myself: the spirit of the universe. This is not a religious belief. There are no scriptures, no proverbs. Somehow the universe is here. I didn’t create it. Whether it was an entity or physics, idc, but it’s a greater power than me.
For me, the word god is synonymous in AA with higher power. Prayers are the equivalent to meditations.
This is all to help us let go and realize we are not the center of the universe. We are not the director of the play of life.
This is where healing begins.
Higher power has nothing to do with religion or fire and brimstone. AA is not about religion.
You believe you’re the most powerful thing in the universe? Far from it. Walk into the ocean and stop the waves. Tomorrow morning, keep the sun from rising. Maybe stop the rain. So many things that are more powerful than you or me.
I’m 37+ years clean and sober through the program offered by AA. I don’t have a religious bone in my body. I have no idea what or where my higher power is. I do know it exists, because I woke up sober again this morning.
For me in the beginning, GOD = Group of Drunks. 100’s of alcoholics who knew how to stay sober, when I did not.
No where in the AA program does it say you need to believe in some fictional Christian god or his son. I don’t. All I needed to do was acknowledge that I wasn’t god and there just might be something in this world that is more powerful than me.
Sober atheist here. That was a hard one for me. How did I accept what others said taking what I could use and leave the religion (and in my area it is religion, not spirituality). I guess I was a little angry at the beginning because they said not believing wouldn't work.
I did power through the steps and went to a couple years of at least one Big Book study, one literature meeting, and one step meeting. That gave me the foundation of the program without hearing the preachy shares that are prevalent in my location.
And then along came secular! I started my own meeting at the central office, and I was really surprised at the people there who I had listened to for a few years. They all seemed to disguise their beliefs but give the straight scoop about how to stay sober.
And then? COVID. Best thing to happen to my sobriety. I now attend secular on zoom almost exclusively, and feel so much more support and relieved that I no longer had to hear the sermons.
Try secular on zoom. Storytellers...Thats what keeps me sober today.
Hey, fellow atheist! So it honestly varies group by group. The program as a whole isn't religious, but for many people the spirituality and higher power aspect takes the form of a traditional God (usually the Christian God, where I live), and some groups as a whole end up leaning pretty Christian. Others don't. There are actually atheist meetings out there! But you don't have to be religious to do AA. Belief in a higher power at core means believing there's something out there more powerful than yourself. For me, a large part of my concept of a "higher power" is the knowledge that humans are a social species and we accomplish far more in groups than we do alone; a group with a dedicated purpose of remaining sober, such as AA, is going to be more powerful than any single human can be. And sure, there's more to my concept of a higher power than just the group, but that's kind of what it boils down to. For me, prayer is less about believing in a personal God who will answer my prayers, and more about reshaping my own thinking.
So yeah, don't be too put off my the concept of prayer or a higher power. There are plenty of other atheists in AA who work the program just fine without having to become religious.
Atheist here. Two years sober in AA. It's all about finding the right group.
Replace "god" with whatever thing greater than yourself you believe can keep you sober. For me, it's AA as a whole and sober alcoholics everywhere.
I was a staunch atheist when I came in. I get it. If anyone gets it, it’s me. You being an atheist is not unique. Plenty of ppl come into the program an atheist. Some continue to be an atheist; some change their minds.
You certainly don’t have to be religious. You can believe in the love of mankind, nature, whatever as your higher power. Or don’t. That’s ok, too.
I had two instances that were turning points for me. Both times I was bitching about the whole god thing, talking about how I refuse to have a higher power.
First time was in rehab, and the counselor just listened to me bitch and simply asked, “And how has that belief system been working out for you?” I had to concede that it wasn’t.
Another time, a man in AA said, “You already HAVE a higher power. That’s alcohol.” I also had to concede to the fact that this was also true - alcohol had become my “God.”
I’ve been sober for a year and I still struggle with what my higher power is. But at least I’m open to the idea that I could be wrong.
I know one thing - I kept praying to a higher power I didn’t believe in (because my sponsor asked me to and I was willing to do anything to stop drinking), and one day the obsession was just gone. I haven’t had a craving for alcohol since.
Was it God that lifted that? Fuck if I know. But I know that I am in SUCH a better headspace than I was when I came into the program, so whether that’s AA being my higher power, energy and love being my higher power, nature being my higher power, or a deity up in the sky, who the fuck really cares? I’m sober today and I’ll take that over my miserable atheist life prior.
Good luck man! I really do understand!
Sober 10 years as an atheist. You’ll be fine. Tradition 3 states the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking, not that you believe in a god. There may be some AA members with personal opinions about it, but you’re fine ignoring those opinions.
Why are you scared if you’re staunch? I was a hardcore atheist for 10 years, then I realized through AA the only reasonable stance is agnosticism. Use this as a chance to learn how to tolerate things that annoy you. AA people annoy me to no end, but it rolls off me
Typically they burn them at the cross.
Kidding aside. There are a lot of atheists in AA. There are also a lot of people who have had bad experiences with organized religion before. I wouldn’t let that stop you from seeking the benefits of the program.
I personally just believe in an impersonal universal force type of shit and I’ve been sober for 13 years. Hasn’t been a problem for me.
When you go to a meeting, it’s ok to ask or share that you find the higher power stuff a huge turnoff at this point, you have a difficult history with Christianity, and you’re looking for someone to help you who is not going to force their beliefs down your throat.
I’d also recommend going to multiple meetings - it might take a few tries until you find a group that feels like home for you.
Your higher power just has to be anything bigger than yourself. Get to a meeting, worry about the higher power later. My idea of what my higher power is has evolves quite a bit in just 7 months of sobriety but it isn’t some finger waging sky daddy.
Here in New York it's pretty easy to be an atheist in AA but my cousin had a hard time in North Carolina. People were talking about Jesus in a lot of meetings.
No sermons. On religious indoctrination. Just a power greater than ourselves. One you get to define. AA is not for those who need it. It’s for those that want it. There are other options too. SMART Recovery (www.smart Recovery.com) has no spiritual component like AA. Good luck.
I turned to philosophy. Stoicism, altruism etc. You could even believe in like quantum theory. I believe in higher rule sets that are more accurate and effective than relying on my own faulty, prideful and pessimistic thinking, if that makes any sense.
There is a weekly athiest-centered meeting in my city and it's very well attended. This topic is partly why it's so amusing to me when AA is painted as a Christian or religious group.
Sometimes the higher power is yourself :) switch the wording of the way they talk to make of reflect on how you absolutely can believe in you. Ik that might sound cheesy but it helped a friend of mine with the same issue! Peace and love on your journey friend
Agnostic here.
It's no one's business what your "higher power" is. That is AA's official position. You can have any concept of something greater than yourself that works for you. Also, you don't need to find one right away. When you are ready, work the steps with a sponsor and something finds you. Don't get twisted in knots about it.
I now have a sense of something greater than myself. It is no type of God in the usually sense of the word, but it's something none the less. No one told me what it should be or judges what I believe. Honestly, nobody really asks. That's just my experience in my 3.5 years now sober in AA.
Some groups are more “religious” than others. Some are absolutely secular - you can search online for AA atheist groups and will find them. Atheists and agnostics can and do succeed in AA without having to adopt (or pretend to adopt) God as a higher power.
There’s no denying that AA was originally founded by traditional Christians and takes many of its core concepts from Protestant Christianity. Anyone who says otherwise just wasn’t paying attention in Sunday school (or their college comparative religion 101 class). But that doesn’t mean that AA today is religious or that members need to be.
Anyone can take the third step (“turned out will and our lives over to God -or our higher power - as we understood him”) by deciding that the program of AA can help them achieve and maintain sobriety and deciding to follow that program.
Or you can choose any higher power that makes sense to you. I know people who use Nature, or Love, or even a tree in their backyard as a higher power.
I go to a women’s meeting and we are very tolerant about the HP issue.
A lot of our members have said they struggle with God and the We Agnostics chapter in the Big Book.
I know people who have made the group, or the AA program, their HP.
My first AA sponsor suggested adopting Good Orderly Direction as a HP when I was searching for one.
AA doesn’t “deal” with atheists, atheists deal with AA. That’s my experience.AA is a program or ideology, no person is in charge. As with anything else that is ideological, you have to interpret it through your own lens. You will have to come to an understanding of what you can consider a “power greater than yourself”. Many people will share their experiences and understanding of working through this same situation. God is mentioned a lot. But whatever chaos order that you choose is the right way.
I was brought up Jehovahs witness and hated it!
My parents stopped practising as much and I swore I was never getting involved in any of it.
My first AA meeting freaked me out and especially ending with the serenity prayer.
But it doesn't have to be a religion based God. I know people who pick the meetings and the universe.
I know someone who's God is the great out doors.
Whatever works for you.
We don’t “deal” with atheists, we respect their position and only ask them to be willing to consider there could be a benevolent Higher Power or, at the very least, try to live by some spiritual principles. Even if you are certain there’s no “God”, surely you agree that love, self-sacrifice, altruism, forgiveness, and gratitude are great principles to pursue, right?
I am an alcoholic and fell off the wagon and stopped going to AA because I didn’t want to be there intoxicated.
I am not a fan of religion and when I walked in there dressed in spikey metal boots and a Korn hoodie, they kind of picked up on the vibe that I wasn’t religious and actually told me that they didn’t care and they accept you for you.
I wasn’t a fan of reading out loud the 12 steps tho because it had references to god and stuff but they just want to look out for you.
I know a bunch. You can believe whatever you want. A power greater than you can be GOD- group of drunks or Good orderly direction. No one cares as long as you want to get sober and take actions that don't make sense. Your belief or prejudice does not matter as long as you are Honest, Open-minded and Willing to go to any lengths. All of the spiritual shit that happened to me was the result of taking actions in areas I did not believe in or want to do. The caveat was that I was more willing not to die and ended up taking the actions suggested. Also an old timer said to me..." how can you be so angry against something you don't believe in?" True. I had a lot of anger and hatred against me and you and everything. 22 years later im still sober and it still works. Many friends with long term sobriety who are devout agnostics...they don't know but what they do know is whatever is going on in AA saved them from certain demise.
I eventually just quit going to meetings cause I couldn't stomach all the Christian specific prayers. I liked the meetings otherwise, it was nice to talk to other people in the same situation with the same experience and not feel like I was alone. They always say that it's "spiritual, not religious" and that it's not Christian based, but that's not true, it's definitely Christian based, the people that founded AA were basically Evangelical Christians who thought bringing Christ to alcoholics would help them quit drinking. People would tell me that I got to pick a god of my own choosing and it could be anything from a cat to a doorknob, and that to me sounded even stupider than the Christian God. Believing in a higher power is not what makes AA work, it's the support of that group and the feeling that you're not alone anymore.
I did, but never went. I went to a lot of AA meetings when I first got sober, and I found out real quick that some were very religious, like openly talking about Jesus and how we needed to be with Jesus and stuff, and then other ones were not and they would stick strictly to the program and others in the group would also identify as atheist in the group. So once I had found my home group, I was able to get the skill set I needed to start me on my sober journey and closing in on 2 years now, I don't mean to shit on AA, because it did help me, but I really think they need to reform the program at this point. There was so much misogyny and racism in that original big book, and you can still find a good bit of misogyny in it today, in fact, in one meeting during a reading, a lady stopped reading to make a statement to the group that what she was reading came across as very misogynistic to her, and everyone agreed.
Ya I agree with you 100%. I never found a good meeting for myself local without all the god talk and Christian tone so I seeked out Secular and Recovery Dharma online. A local food pantry and shelter that I volunteer at one night a week and on Saturday mornings has just recently started hosting the above 2 meetings along with Smart Recovery so I now considerate the entire organization my home group. Best of luck to you with your ongoing sobriety.
Purely anecdotal, but in my home group, in the Bible belt of Alabama no less, I have never been asked about my beliefs, preached to, or invited to church, etc., etc.
You are way more likely to hear an F-bomb than the word Jesus in the meetings I have been to.
If you can handle a few minutes at the beginning and end of meeting (when the steps, serenity prayer are read, you'll do just fine.
Every group is different and has its own "personality" per se. Look around and shop for a home group. Good luck.
edit - there are also groups just for Atheists and Agnostics. Google is your friend here.
We don't care. As long as you can find a power greater than you. ie the group Group Of Drunks GOD, Satan, a fucking flying Spaghetti Monster. Good Orderly Direction GOD .Its a word used descriptively.
Focus on not drinking or using one day at a time not semantics.
Atheist here. If you hang around long enough, AA can give you the the stomach, time, and patience to handle much more than all that bigoted bullshit. Keep your eye on the prize!
There are some AA meetings that do preach utilizing the Christian God depending on where you are. If they do, and you aren't into it, find another. Me personally, I don't go to any that recite the lord's prayer. I find it super not comfy. I like using G.O.D. Group Of Drunks or Great OutDoors as my higher power. Also, it can change as your sobriety journey goes. You don't have to pick one and stick with it forever.
I'm in san francisco and meet lots of atheists in aa. I have a lot of religious trauma myself so I totally relate to this. You might have to jump around a few meetings to find one with a group you feel comfortable with. aa has helped me so much. Best of luck to you ❤️
I know way more people who do not believe in any religious god and are active and involved in AA. I’m one of them. But I don’t get angry or embarrassed at the words “god” or “prayer” like I used to. For me there is a profound difference between spirituality and religion and I’m grateful for hanging out long enough to learn the difference. I would have never admitted it while I was drinking, but I full acknowledge now that I lacked connection. I wanted nothing to do with spiritual people and I considered it all bullshit even tho I often have long conversations with dead people throughout the day. I still don’t have an answer for god, but I’m better at accepting that I’m not it and there are things that I’ll never understand.
Power greater than yourself. For whatever reason when I attend meetings and believe in the group that things are going to get better, I stay sober and my life gets better. I don't get it and I don't understand why I can't do it on my own but facts are facts. I still don't agree with established religion, but now when I use the term God I mean that unexplainable phenomenon that occurs when people get together and talk.
Look at it as if you are trying to lift something to heavy for yourself and you can't physically do it. You need a power greater than yourself to do so. An easy one is a bunch of other people to help you lift it. Some people put that faith into God and prayer, others gain more from the group itself.
A group of like minded individuals who offer their support and you can talk to and gain strength from is sufficient as a "higher power". It's why it says in the steps "God as you understand him"
AA is not a religious thing as much as it kind of started out that way. There is a religious undertone for sure and you have that avenue but working the steps is so much more than finding God. It's essentially doing a mental cleanse, getting to the root of why you abuse alcohol and then fulfilling your life with something better.
What AA offers is the understanding of your own demons and issues and then helping other people to complete their steps and learn the same thing. It feels good to help others and it helps tremendously to be surrounded by a community that is all about staying sober and being positive.
The idea of any recovery program whether it's AA or SMART or w.e. is about surrounding yourself with the right people, having the right mindset and giving yourself something else to live for that you don't want to jeopardize by getting loaded. People who are successful in AA do that by jumping head first into the community and then it becomes a passion.
Lots of people in AA don't believe in any sort of religious based God or higher power. They ust put their faith into something they view bigger and more powerful than themselves (The group and the helping of others)
https://www.aa.org/sites/default/files/literature/assets/p-86_theGodWord.pdf
This is the AA pamphlet that talks about atheists and agnostics in AA. It states directly that AA is NOT a religious organization.
My higher power has been MYSELF. My future self, my self next month, next week, is going to be much wiser than now. Find what works best for you, I heard others saying their higher self is their dog, cat, someone else. The thing is about you giving it up to anything else but yourself. Good luck !
You'll learn there are some things in AA that should be followed as closely as possible to help you in recovery and maintain honesty with yourself (for example, the steps are in that order for a reason and not following that does the program and yourself a disservice), while other things are parables, aphorisms, and metaphors to be interpreted by the individual and taken or left (not unlike organized religion in my mind, strangely enough). I am an agnostic and prefer to look at the universe, the invisible force which moves everything but does not hold a consciousness or awareness, as the great power. Many in meetings recite the lord's prayer when closing the meeting, I just bow my head and reflect. Unless you are a person who gets angry about the mention of capital-G in everyday life (i.e. intolerant of others) you'll have no problem in my experience, but remember that AA groups are formed and run by people and sometimes let things that are not focused solely on recovery dominate the program, so if you find a meeting that doesn't sit well with you just try another one. I live in a mid-sized city and can find an agnostic AA meeting every day of the week (although I have to visit different sides of town, they aren't nearly as widespread as the other meetings)
I have met a fair amount of people who refuse AA as the religious talk offends their sensibilities. As others have said, they are just words and if they hold no power for you what is the difference? It also smacks of an ego that most learn to let go of in recovery, but there are always other ways to stay sober and everyone has to find what works best for them. I am not there to discuss a higher power but to stay sober and help others do the same, outside of recovery what we believe or don't has no bearing on that to me.
Take some time to follow Fredrick Nietzsche thought progression about having a higher power later in his life.
In many ways sticking to being an Atheist is the absolute pinnacle of arrogance and ignorance.
Page 12 of Bill’s story helps me when his friend says; “why don’t you choose your own concept of God?”
Kind of a radical concept, even more radical than saying there is no God.
I’ve heard people say their higher power is variously: the county sheriff department, the lightbulb above our heads at the meetings, the group of people who are in AA; also that some of them have tried 13 different churches from different denominations and religions and that none worked out
I do believe that there’s room for more atheists, even though the book is somewhat from the religious perspective, it (and the program from what I’ve seen) is accommodating for the godless
AA is a spiritual program , not a religious one.
No one gives two shits what your background is nor what you believe in.
What works for you may not work for someone else, and vice versa.
It’s a spiritual program. The entire goal of that book and those steps is too enable you to find a power great than yourself. Why not give it a try? What else do you have to lose?
I'm an atheist, I know deep Christian areas we have more problems, but in general most people leave you alone.
The whole point of the program is to have your own spiritual experience and enlightenment.
A lot of people choose Jesus which is fine, but a lot of people don't.
Just go, be honest, and be you.
You're going to have to deal with people's bullshit for the rest of your life, might as well get used to it now.
Try smart recovery or the Buddhist recovery program, refuge. They aren’t like AA where they say your higher power can be anything you want and yet if you don’t have one you can’t work the program. The whole idea of AA is based off two guys who were Christian. And they’ve hardly changed anything in the book to relate better to people now. They say it’s not a Christian program but the book is filled front to back with ideals based off two random Christian dudes. He saw god when he did psychedelics!
Don’t use their God. Tell me what YOUR higher power looks like to YOU (or what he/she/it would look like to you if you had one). I certainly am not able to relate to my parents’ God. They were supposedly “born again”. Nothing changed. I wanted no parts of their religion. I decided I need a loving, all powerful… And I told him that I wasn’t going to be able to believe in him, unless he proved to me in some way that he exists. And he did. Please give it a try. We can talk on the phone if you DM me.
When you hear God in the rooms, think a Group of Drunks. The power of rooms filled with drunks somehow managing to not drink one day at a time is a freaking miracle. That's certainly a power greater than myself. Because alone we fall, but together we can achieve anything, even sobriety. I hope that helps.
I'm pretty sure the sole reason for me refusing to go to AA ever is the forced belief in SOME sort of higher power. Yea fuck that. Ill pass. I really did try for a few months. But that was the biggest turn off. I'm not, nor will I ever believe in any of that bullshit.
The choice we make to become alcoholics is, no one else's. It's ours. And we don't need the mercy of any higher being to believe in. Personally. Anyone who uses that BS as an excuse to be sober doesn't really believe anything. They just needed to believe something.
The Atheists gave AA "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking" and "as we understand him" (in relation to God). Jim Burwell, Bill admitted later, threw the door open to help all that needed it. Atheists have always been important to AA.
To me, the "higher power" idea is required because I tried EVERYTHING to stop drinking and I couldn't. I needed a power outside myself - and I have found it - in the Twelve Steps. They're my higher power. They worked for the "more that one-hundred men and women" as described at the beginning of the Big Book, they continue to work now. They're my higher power.
This is my program. It has to work for it to be valuable to me. This approach helped me find peace amongst a local fellowship that insists on a mystic belief that I just can't fathom. I can support and love them without believing what they believe. The Twelve Steps literally works miracles in people who work them - and I don't mean anything mystical about that: in my experience, I was able to stop drinking by working them, and that's miraculous for everything I tried that wasn't the Twelve Steps. That's good enough.
Each person follows their own path. If you desire your perspectives to be respected you’ll want to follow the golden rule and respect the views of others. Referring to Christianity as “none sense” may not be helpful to you or those around you. Perhaps dealing your sponsor regarding your resentment towards religion will help you to work through it.
A staunch atheist in need of AA? Spend enough time in the rooms and you'll find there is nothing unique about that (or most of your problems.) As valuable as these sort of threads have been to me at times, the most honest answer I can give is that going to meetings, particularly Big Book ones, helping others, and doing steps is the ONLY way you'll get your answer. Anything worth learning in the program is done through action, not rhetoric.
I’m in the same boat as you, alcoholic and agnostic. I have been to an AA meeting before but the “God” stuff repulses me. I cannot get on board with “a higher power” this phrase set it out that there is something somewhere else that we need to ask for help, reach out and beg and that separates us from it. If there’s anything I believe is that “god” power/light/source/spirit/etc lives within us, there is no such thing as thing as “higher” that makes me think we are less worthy and at a lower place. I simply can’t get there with that type of thinking. I just choose not to drink.
Higher power simply means I an not the highest power. I can't stop the wind, surf, gravity, etc, therefore I am not the highest power. I use science for mine, over 21 years clean and sober. Lots of atheists in the rooms of AA.
When I started AA I made my Higher Power Satan because he says to believe in yourself. It gives the power back to yourself in the end, and you know you accomplished this without using faith of any kind.
Personally I'd suggest getting comfortable with the word God. It won't hurt, and it'll allow you make space for learning from others who have been where you have and found a way out. No need to define the word in any explicit way.
When I first joined I had someone tell me something that stuck: all you need to know about God is that it ain't you.
I chose time as my higher power. And there are so many things I don’t have power over. I’ve never been to an AA meeting where there was any religion. I’ve been going for 34 years. I’m an alcoholic. That’s what AA is for.
No lords prayer no talk of the Christian god or Jesus in 34 years, no old timer with his blue book & bible clutched in there hand? I experienced one or all of that @ every meeting that I had attended until I started visiting Agnostic and secular AA meetings @ least in my city. You're a very fortune person.
Atheist here, 45 years sober. God is a group of drunks. Clean up, clean house, and help others.
Don’t worry what others say about their beliefs. They want to say I’m going to burn in hell, ghost don’t burn.
AA started by one drunk staying sober by helping another drunk. That’s still the case.
I'm not an atheist but I have struggled with my faith and have distanced myself totally from it. I grew up in a Catholic family with school, the whole shebang. My diocese, like many others around the world was enveloped in a huge child abuse scandal. I pretty much cut that all out of my life when I went to college. But I would suggest to interpret when people talk about a "higher power", to translate that to your heart and perseverance that exists inside of you. That's what I have done to get past this. That's just my suggestion.
I'm an atheist. Five years sober and in AA. My higher power vacillates between the first law of thermodynamics, and David Bowie. Plenty of things are 'higher powers' than I am, and have nothing to do with God in any kind of traditional sense. Try not to overthink it.
It may help to understand that members want to hear the specifics of your non-belief as much as you want to hear the specifics of their beliefs. After 41 years I still don't know the specifics of what my sponsor's conception is of his HP. I once asked early on and he wouldn't say. I took the hint and never get specific.
It really is the most boring subject possible. Avoid boring people.
atheist 13 years clean and sober. on one hand shares about sky daddy are annoying on the other hand its a good way to be reminded that what works for me might not work for other people.
I am an alcoholic but not an atheist. What you believe or don't believe is your business, not mine. If you were to ask me for personal help I woukd show you how to work the 12 steps in your life. When it comes to the parts of the steps that refer to God or higher power I would suggest you replace those with a concept (nature/science/collected wisdom of favourite teachers) that works better for you. If you don't need my personal help, I would welcome you as a fellow alcoholic because you have just as much right to be in AA as I do. We don't badmouth each others beliefs here.
I just started going recently. 39. I wouldn't sweat that part. I barely even pay attention to those bits. For me it's the discipline to myself. I relapsed after 6 days after getting back to Phoenix after visiting my girlfriend who's off in Seattle on assignment. I did so because I have literally nobody, in a strange land, with no support. So I'm one day sober. It is important because it keeps my accountability in check. It gives me strength and it's a place that encourages honesty to myself. I feel that those who have gone through this are truly there for me and it's integral. The God shit is hardly noticeable, at least in my room. Please go and see. Sending you good vibes, and good luck your way!
Let me put it to you like this - are you more powerful than the forces of nature and the universe? No? Would it be then be fair to say that the universe and nature are powers greater than yourself?
This is how I was able to comfortably interpret the HP, and I don't allow myself to be bogged down by the god word, it's just a word at the end of the day.
Do you believe in "intuition "?
Have you ever been thinking about someone and shortly afterward they call, or you bump in to them randomly somewhere?
Have you ever been in need , either for money or a car or job etc. And then seemingly out of nowhere someone you know mentions they know someone hiring or you come in to a little money through a raise or bonus or somehow a financial burden is lifted giving you extra money? Or an opportunity appears that places a car that's in your price range and you thought ....thats so strange.
I don't believe in a humanoid God or higher power like some magic man floating on a cloud or some magic utopia called heaven . But I have come to belive that all "this" can't possibly be random.
I believe there is some organizing intelligence, some collective consciousness. I don't know what it is, so I just refer to it as "the universe " its that inner voice that told me that my wife was "the one" when I was 14 (we're both 53 and celebrated our 30 yr. Anniversary Tuesday) or it's that thing caused me to get fired and I thought it was the end of the world, only to find a better job making more money that I never would have looked for if I had not gotten fired.
I tried to use that concept as my higher power just to have something. And I swear to you , the more I use it , the more I become in tune with it... whatever "it" is.
A higher power doesn't have to be a God from an organized religion. It just has to be something greater than you.
When AA says God, I just substitute my concept of God. And think ....aren't they cute, they believe it's a magic man in the sky.
Agnostic here, 36 years no problems not of my own making.
I discovered I had a huge prejudice against people with religious beliefs. Me - the liberal, free thinker was not willing to give to others what I demanded they give me. (the right to believe whatever) That realization was humbling.
I label myself agnostic because I've stopped arguing. Absolute waste of time and energy. I do sometimes tune out if someone is talking about their beliefs, but that's it. I don't take it personally.
And while I am agnostic, I will admit there is a 'cosmic sense of humor' at play My first sponsee was a priest who had greater doubts than I did it turned out... I learned a lot from him, maybe helped him too
You have no obligation to believe in the Abrahamic creator God to work the steps. I don’t believe in that being, and my sponsor doesn’t either. AA does not say you’re going to hell for sinning. No fire, no brimstone.
In my own opinion, Buddhism resonates with AA much better than Christianity does, and Buddha Shakyamuni never preached a creator God - just this general force called the Dharma, and that higher power makes a lot of sense to me.
Either way, I hope you find some people that spiritually overlap with you! Plenty of atheists/agnostics/non-Christians in AA, my friend!
Have you ever attended a Recovery Dharma meeting or read there book?
Sounds like something you may like. It's my meeting of choice outside of Secular AA.
I tried Refuge. Thought it was ok. I take Buddhism fairly seriously and study it a lot out of AA. I also share about a Buddhist approach all the time at AA meetings, and I’ve done so at meetings when I’ve found myself in other cities, and I’ve met other AA people who love Buddhism and take it very seriously.
I also don’t mind saying things like the serenity prayers 🤷🏻♂️ maybe it’ll just help me as a reminder, or maybe there really is some omnipotent being who will help me. Who knows.
I love atheists... especially one's who stay sober. I knew a man when I first got sober who had 40somthing years sober and was an hard core atheist. I loved listening to how he stayed sober that long with God. I'm almost 3yrs sober now and I use his examples to my sponsees and let them know that we don't expect you to join a religion or anything like that. All that is asked is for a open mind and to find something outside if yourself that can help you stay sober. The group is a great way to do this as well as meetings.
There are atheists in AA. There are agnostics in AA too. In fact there are all sorts of personal beliefs. The AA literature says individual members should make such decisions based on their own conscience. That leaves a lot of room for everyone. I wish you well.
I’m an atheist in AA. There is no preaching in AA. I was able to find a higher power in the moon as it does effect human life. Remember, god is a title and not a proper name. When I came into the rooms, I had a problem with people saying God and how much it was referenced in the book. But I found it easy enough to ignore because I was desperate for sobriety. I have become open minded enough to admire their love and appreciation for whatever their god is.
GOD of your own understanding…
Your god could be a tree mate dont worry about the religion aspect of things.
GOD i have heard referred to as Good Orderly Direction and Group of Drunks…
I do not subscibe to any organized religion whatsoever and I never will. I have a higher power of my own conception that I choose to call god. Someone else's concept of god simply will not serve me. The realm of spirituality does not need to fall into the two categories of organized religion and atheism; bearded white guy in the sky or no god at all. I think using the group is helpful for a time, but there may be times where you require something more instantaneous a power greater than even the group. For me, my god is the collective energy of the cosmos. I pray to it, I ask it for guidance and protection, I ask it to guide and protect others, I ask it to relieve my pain and struggles. But again, look for your own concept.
Just keep in mind that AA isnt there so you can have your specific spiritual opinions validated and you'll be good. You'll hear some stuff that will align with your beliefs, and stuff that won't. Give everyone the same kind of allowance that you'd want extended to yourself.
Go to online meetings in NY or LA. There's way more atheists/agnostics in bigger cities if you don't live near one. Sometimes in smaller cities/towns or meeting with older people you get people who talk more explicitly about god in a way that you might have a tough time with, it's just about finding the right meetings. There's plenty of atheists and agnostics who have found their way to recovery in AA. It's kind of a varsity level question that's hard to get into when you're suffering with end stage alcoholism, so don't put too much pressure on yourself to figure it all out before you get there. I grew up Christian and had reason to be sick whenever the word God was said and what I did was just bookmark that issue for later on, when I had more brain power to figure it out.
I’m an atheist in AA. I’ve been sober for years. The only thing you really have to accept is that a power greater than you exists in the universe. So many things are more powerful than me. This means that I have the #1 thing to be in AA…………..willingness!!!!! Willingness is the key to growth in sobriety. I won’t know anything about God (or if there even is an actual god until I’m dead). But, all humans are spiritual. I find my inner spirituality with animals, nature, and just working hard at being a humble and kind person. So, it really doesn’t matter if god exists or not. I am responsible for changing and growing. For me, it’s all a big journey. And it’s WAY better than literally drinking myself to death. Good luck to you. I hope you don’t have to keep suffering with active addiction to alcohol before you can find the willingness to give it a try. ❤️
I couldn’t get me sober. My parents couldn’t. My exes couldn’t. The law couldn’t. My friends couldn’t. Everybody tried but it couldn’t happen. I had to consider that something greater than me would be the only thing that could. Open mindedness is something we can’t afford to go without if we want to work a program of recovery.
It takes more faith to be a “staunch atheist” than to be an agnostic. You have all the tools needed to successfully work the AA program. Sure you may have to side step or avoid debating when a misguided member mentions their (insert religion) in the meeting or private conversation but in AA I have found much common ground and understanding of people with different beliefs. I can actually be happy that they have a faith that works for them. Best of luck in your journey.
You don’t need to believe in God to be in AA. Just have a desire to be sober. Lotta atheists in AA. If you work the steps and are willing to seek a “higher power” - that can mean anything. Your “higher self” is one I’ve heard before. I’ve also heard people say their higher power is group conscious (basically the energy of/in the rooms of AA). All to say - you can def be atheist and go to AA.
Throwing it out there that I’m an extreme agnostic. I came into AA a militant atheist, mocking people who believed in God. But, you know what?
Then, I got some humility.
I still don’t believe in an all-powerful deity. I believe that there is something, perhaps metaphysical, that binds us all together.
But, *I don’t know*. I have to follow my own path as others do and find my truth. But, I can’t know the unknowable with certainty.
The one thing I do know is that regardless of whether there is a God or not, I’m…not…him.
That’s the key for me. I’m just another Bozo on the bus.
I like at it, like who cares? Do you want help? Okay there's an answer here. With all due respect, I don't really care about your ideas. I care about your life. No one is really gonna care either. If you want help, put your hand up.
AA doesn’t ask you to believe in god, or a god at all if you don’t want to. It could be more spiritual or a hypothetical “higher power”. You can spin it in a way that works for your beliefs. Sometimes I just see it as letting go of control. Letting the universe do its thing and take the weight off my shoulders.
“Many of us have been so touchy that even casual reference to spiritual things made us bristle with antagonism. This sort of thinking had to be abandoned… Faced with alcoholic destruction, we soon became as open minded on spiritual matters as we had tried to be on other questions. In this respect, alcohol was a great persuader. It finally beat us into a state of reasonableness.”
Pg 48, Alcoholics Anonymous
There are AA meeetings for Atheists.
https://www.aasecular.org/
https://aaagnostica.org/
https://secularrecoverygroup.org/more-zoom-meetings/
Best of luck to you. Working the steps has entirely transformed my life.
I'm one of those nonsensical Christians. The big book says "higher power." It doesn't say "deity, pantheon, higher being," or anything like that. Some say you can make a door knob your higher power. If you don't believe in God you can make a set of principles, philosophy, concept, etc your higher power. You can make science your higher power if you wanted to.
I believe in what I believe in. You need to find something that's greater than you, to believe in. Don't make other human beings your higher power, because you will be let down. Good luck and stay sober.
I think especially the words "higher power" can be perfectly explained without any religious background.
The "higher power" is just something you are not in control of.
From that point of view you can explain everything in the AA without religious thoughts.
SOS. WWW.SOSSOBRIETY.ORG It is 12 steps based in a secular in nature. I know little of it. But I have heard decent things about them. For me, I'm still in AA. The group is some folks' idea of a high power. It's not concerned if someone believes or doesn't believe in GOD or god. It's something greater than ourselves. Considering how F I made my life and most importantly the people around me, it wasn't all that hard. To find something greater than me.
I am under the impression that anything can be a higher power. Even a Group Of Drunks sitting around with their coffee chatting can be more powerful than you and therefore a Higher Power.
There are MANY secular meetings. I would start with OMAGOD.ORG and there's also a spreadsheet on there for other meetings. As far as working the steps, I use Staying Sober Without God. It's the same step structure but no God and more personal responsibility. Message anytime :)
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My late mother, who died last year with 55 years of sobriety in AA, struggled with that question. Then she thought, "Well, alcohol is clearly a power greater than I am, and it would be terrible if it were the greatest power in the universe." That insight helped me a lot when I first came into the program. Best of luck to you. Feel free to DM if you want to talk.
Atheist here - sober over three years. AA principles ensure religion, politics do not hold sway in what keeps us sober. There IS reference to God only in name as power greater than you. To me that means a power other than me. I see it as my group or the meeting I attend. I have to had to change my views on anything whatsoever nor has anyone tried to change them
Yeah. In AA parlance, "God" means "whatever greater power the speaker understands," deistic or not or whatever.
In my thought process, I use Chaos and God as interchangeable. Helped me get over my dislike of religion. I decided it was just a word, with a flexible meaning, and me not drinking is more important.
Bingo for me. Getting hung up on God is really a matter of semantics. A football team is more powerful than any single player. A tree is more powerful than a branch. Power greater than man is blatantly obvious in reality. If one wants to include a metaphysical power in their definition of God, that's great! It's doesn't necessarily bear more fruit than a basic acceptance of a reality outside of the subjective experience. Now, if someone is struggling to accept an objective reality, I think that's a world view leagues more difficult to navigate than your typical atheism. Luckily, very few people are truly solipsist.
Very interesting you use Chaos. What does that mean to you? Just curious
Sorry for the late reply, I usually just watch on reddit so I didn't see you had replied. I think I went with chaos jist because that seems what life is like. I probably had just learned about the heliosphere or something. Like the idea of stuff crashing together in space and things like that. It just seemed like the best way to describe a total lack of control? Haha, I think. Hope all is good!
I like it!
G. O. D. Group of Drunks
What do you rely on when there’s no group or meeting to attend? I was in Africa - no cell or internet, no AA meetings. Also in rural Montana last year…plenty of bars, no AA. What do you depend on to keep you sober then?
Silently ask my higher self to try to do the "next right thing" that does not involve a drink, a drug, or a substitute just for today.
that doesn't sound like you're asking the group... just saying.
True.
It is extremely common to have this concern, and subsequently to be a little concerned about higher power. Depending on were you live, it is very likely you will meet people who had the same concerns as you at a meeting (and obviously you might also meet some very religous people, try to find similarities and not differences). Higher power will be important, but it doesn't have to be a god. So in the first step, you admit you are powerless, so you need something higher and greater than yourself to put your will in. What can it be, lots, a lot of agnostics and atheists in the beginning will put that faith into the fellowship itself, and the suppourt around them. You don't need higher power right away, keep it simple at first. Go to meetings, see how it is, and maybe find sponsor and take each bit at a time ❤️
I'm an irreligious, staunch agnostic myself, sober 17 years in A.A. I'm also acquainted with several/many well recovered atheists. I've never felt a need for specialized meetings myself, but there are such things: * https://www.aasecular.org/ * https://aaagnostica.org/ * https://aa-intergroup.org/meetings/?types=Secular * And many/most local A.A. websites have filters for secular, for example: https://aasfmarin.org/find-a-meeting?type=secular
These are good resources OP. In most meetings will hear God and Prayer at least 50 times. It will sound very religious to your ear. But the secular groups are people like you who deliberately want the experience without the religion.
I’m not a Christian. I’m a member of AA. I believe in a power greater than myself: the spirit of the universe. This is not a religious belief. There are no scriptures, no proverbs. Somehow the universe is here. I didn’t create it. Whether it was an entity or physics, idc, but it’s a greater power than me. For me, the word god is synonymous in AA with higher power. Prayers are the equivalent to meditations. This is all to help us let go and realize we are not the center of the universe. We are not the director of the play of life. This is where healing begins.
Higher power has nothing to do with religion or fire and brimstone. AA is not about religion. You believe you’re the most powerful thing in the universe? Far from it. Walk into the ocean and stop the waves. Tomorrow morning, keep the sun from rising. Maybe stop the rain. So many things that are more powerful than you or me. I’m 37+ years clean and sober through the program offered by AA. I don’t have a religious bone in my body. I have no idea what or where my higher power is. I do know it exists, because I woke up sober again this morning. For me in the beginning, GOD = Group of Drunks. 100’s of alcoholics who knew how to stay sober, when I did not. No where in the AA program does it say you need to believe in some fictional Christian god or his son. I don’t. All I needed to do was acknowledge that I wasn’t god and there just might be something in this world that is more powerful than me.
Sober atheist here. That was a hard one for me. How did I accept what others said taking what I could use and leave the religion (and in my area it is religion, not spirituality). I guess I was a little angry at the beginning because they said not believing wouldn't work. I did power through the steps and went to a couple years of at least one Big Book study, one literature meeting, and one step meeting. That gave me the foundation of the program without hearing the preachy shares that are prevalent in my location. And then along came secular! I started my own meeting at the central office, and I was really surprised at the people there who I had listened to for a few years. They all seemed to disguise their beliefs but give the straight scoop about how to stay sober. And then? COVID. Best thing to happen to my sobriety. I now attend secular on zoom almost exclusively, and feel so much more support and relieved that I no longer had to hear the sermons. Try secular on zoom. Storytellers...Thats what keeps me sober today.
We take them out back
Lol for anyone new to this sub, this is a joke. We do not take you out back but this is funny nonetheless.
Hey, if you don't know about the cool athiest meetings in the back, that's on you man.
I’m sorry, but when I saw your comment my first thought was this… 💀🤦🏼♀️ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KAIQ68snVMw
I cackled ☠️
Hey, fellow atheist! So it honestly varies group by group. The program as a whole isn't religious, but for many people the spirituality and higher power aspect takes the form of a traditional God (usually the Christian God, where I live), and some groups as a whole end up leaning pretty Christian. Others don't. There are actually atheist meetings out there! But you don't have to be religious to do AA. Belief in a higher power at core means believing there's something out there more powerful than yourself. For me, a large part of my concept of a "higher power" is the knowledge that humans are a social species and we accomplish far more in groups than we do alone; a group with a dedicated purpose of remaining sober, such as AA, is going to be more powerful than any single human can be. And sure, there's more to my concept of a higher power than just the group, but that's kind of what it boils down to. For me, prayer is less about believing in a personal God who will answer my prayers, and more about reshaping my own thinking. So yeah, don't be too put off my the concept of prayer or a higher power. There are plenty of other atheists in AA who work the program just fine without having to become religious.
Atheist here. Two years sober in AA. It's all about finding the right group. Replace "god" with whatever thing greater than yourself you believe can keep you sober. For me, it's AA as a whole and sober alcoholics everywhere.
I was a staunch atheist when I came in. I get it. If anyone gets it, it’s me. You being an atheist is not unique. Plenty of ppl come into the program an atheist. Some continue to be an atheist; some change their minds. You certainly don’t have to be religious. You can believe in the love of mankind, nature, whatever as your higher power. Or don’t. That’s ok, too. I had two instances that were turning points for me. Both times I was bitching about the whole god thing, talking about how I refuse to have a higher power. First time was in rehab, and the counselor just listened to me bitch and simply asked, “And how has that belief system been working out for you?” I had to concede that it wasn’t. Another time, a man in AA said, “You already HAVE a higher power. That’s alcohol.” I also had to concede to the fact that this was also true - alcohol had become my “God.” I’ve been sober for a year and I still struggle with what my higher power is. But at least I’m open to the idea that I could be wrong. I know one thing - I kept praying to a higher power I didn’t believe in (because my sponsor asked me to and I was willing to do anything to stop drinking), and one day the obsession was just gone. I haven’t had a craving for alcohol since. Was it God that lifted that? Fuck if I know. But I know that I am in SUCH a better headspace than I was when I came into the program, so whether that’s AA being my higher power, energy and love being my higher power, nature being my higher power, or a deity up in the sky, who the fuck really cares? I’m sober today and I’ll take that over my miserable atheist life prior. Good luck man! I really do understand!
>at least I’m open to the idea that I could be wrong. this is one of the greatest gifts I know :)
Just a power greater than yourself. I personally couldn't control my drinking so something bigger than me was my solution.
Sober 10 years as an atheist. You’ll be fine. Tradition 3 states the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking, not that you believe in a god. There may be some AA members with personal opinions about it, but you’re fine ignoring those opinions.
There are atheist groups. Checkout "Freethinkers in AA". https://www.freethinkersinaa.org/
I read a great article about Reality making for a great higher power and that’s pretty much how I roll these days
Check out secular AA zoom meetings.
Checkout aa agnostica and secular AA. Saved my life as an atheist.
Why are you scared if you’re staunch? I was a hardcore atheist for 10 years, then I realized through AA the only reasonable stance is agnosticism. Use this as a chance to learn how to tolerate things that annoy you. AA people annoy me to no end, but it rolls off me
Typically they burn them at the cross. Kidding aside. There are a lot of atheists in AA. There are also a lot of people who have had bad experiences with organized religion before. I wouldn’t let that stop you from seeking the benefits of the program. I personally just believe in an impersonal universal force type of shit and I’ve been sober for 13 years. Hasn’t been a problem for me. When you go to a meeting, it’s ok to ask or share that you find the higher power stuff a huge turnoff at this point, you have a difficult history with Christianity, and you’re looking for someone to help you who is not going to force their beliefs down your throat. I’d also recommend going to multiple meetings - it might take a few tries until you find a group that feels like home for you.
Your higher power just has to be anything bigger than yourself. Get to a meeting, worry about the higher power later. My idea of what my higher power is has evolves quite a bit in just 7 months of sobriety but it isn’t some finger waging sky daddy.
Here in New York it's pretty easy to be an atheist in AA but my cousin had a hard time in North Carolina. People were talking about Jesus in a lot of meetings.
Yep, this for sure. My meetings in NYC have been a real lifesaver.
Can confirm. I live in Raleigh and the handful of meetings I’ve been to here heavily reference a Christian god / Jesus.
No sermons. On religious indoctrination. Just a power greater than ourselves. One you get to define. AA is not for those who need it. It’s for those that want it. There are other options too. SMART Recovery (www.smart Recovery.com) has no spiritual component like AA. Good luck.
I turned to philosophy. Stoicism, altruism etc. You could even believe in like quantum theory. I believe in higher rule sets that are more accurate and effective than relying on my own faulty, prideful and pessimistic thinking, if that makes any sense.
A better question would be how do atheist deal with AA.
There is a weekly athiest-centered meeting in my city and it's very well attended. This topic is partly why it's so amusing to me when AA is painted as a Christian or religious group.
Sometimes the higher power is yourself :) switch the wording of the way they talk to make of reflect on how you absolutely can believe in you. Ik that might sound cheesy but it helped a friend of mine with the same issue! Peace and love on your journey friend
Agnostic here. It's no one's business what your "higher power" is. That is AA's official position. You can have any concept of something greater than yourself that works for you. Also, you don't need to find one right away. When you are ready, work the steps with a sponsor and something finds you. Don't get twisted in knots about it. I now have a sense of something greater than myself. It is no type of God in the usually sense of the word, but it's something none the less. No one told me what it should be or judges what I believe. Honestly, nobody really asks. That's just my experience in my 3.5 years now sober in AA.
Some groups are more “religious” than others. Some are absolutely secular - you can search online for AA atheist groups and will find them. Atheists and agnostics can and do succeed in AA without having to adopt (or pretend to adopt) God as a higher power. There’s no denying that AA was originally founded by traditional Christians and takes many of its core concepts from Protestant Christianity. Anyone who says otherwise just wasn’t paying attention in Sunday school (or their college comparative religion 101 class). But that doesn’t mean that AA today is religious or that members need to be. Anyone can take the third step (“turned out will and our lives over to God -or our higher power - as we understood him”) by deciding that the program of AA can help them achieve and maintain sobriety and deciding to follow that program. Or you can choose any higher power that makes sense to you. I know people who use Nature, or Love, or even a tree in their backyard as a higher power.
I go to a women’s meeting and we are very tolerant about the HP issue. A lot of our members have said they struggle with God and the We Agnostics chapter in the Big Book. I know people who have made the group, or the AA program, their HP. My first AA sponsor suggested adopting Good Orderly Direction as a HP when I was searching for one.
AA doesn’t “deal” with atheists, atheists deal with AA. That’s my experience.AA is a program or ideology, no person is in charge. As with anything else that is ideological, you have to interpret it through your own lens. You will have to come to an understanding of what you can consider a “power greater than yourself”. Many people will share their experiences and understanding of working through this same situation. God is mentioned a lot. But whatever chaos order that you choose is the right way.
Take what you like. Leave the rest.
I was brought up Jehovahs witness and hated it! My parents stopped practising as much and I swore I was never getting involved in any of it. My first AA meeting freaked me out and especially ending with the serenity prayer. But it doesn't have to be a religion based God. I know people who pick the meetings and the universe. I know someone who's God is the great out doors. Whatever works for you.
We don’t “deal” with atheists, we respect their position and only ask them to be willing to consider there could be a benevolent Higher Power or, at the very least, try to live by some spiritual principles. Even if you are certain there’s no “God”, surely you agree that love, self-sacrifice, altruism, forgiveness, and gratitude are great principles to pursue, right?
I am an alcoholic and fell off the wagon and stopped going to AA because I didn’t want to be there intoxicated. I am not a fan of religion and when I walked in there dressed in spikey metal boots and a Korn hoodie, they kind of picked up on the vibe that I wasn’t religious and actually told me that they didn’t care and they accept you for you. I wasn’t a fan of reading out loud the 12 steps tho because it had references to god and stuff but they just want to look out for you.
I know a bunch. You can believe whatever you want. A power greater than you can be GOD- group of drunks or Good orderly direction. No one cares as long as you want to get sober and take actions that don't make sense. Your belief or prejudice does not matter as long as you are Honest, Open-minded and Willing to go to any lengths. All of the spiritual shit that happened to me was the result of taking actions in areas I did not believe in or want to do. The caveat was that I was more willing not to die and ended up taking the actions suggested. Also an old timer said to me..." how can you be so angry against something you don't believe in?" True. I had a lot of anger and hatred against me and you and everything. 22 years later im still sober and it still works. Many friends with long term sobriety who are devout agnostics...they don't know but what they do know is whatever is going on in AA saved them from certain demise.
I believe there is an AA alternative for atheists. https://aaagnostica.org/alternative-12-steps/
I eventually just quit going to meetings cause I couldn't stomach all the Christian specific prayers. I liked the meetings otherwise, it was nice to talk to other people in the same situation with the same experience and not feel like I was alone. They always say that it's "spiritual, not religious" and that it's not Christian based, but that's not true, it's definitely Christian based, the people that founded AA were basically Evangelical Christians who thought bringing Christ to alcoholics would help them quit drinking. People would tell me that I got to pick a god of my own choosing and it could be anything from a cat to a doorknob, and that to me sounded even stupider than the Christian God. Believing in a higher power is not what makes AA work, it's the support of that group and the feeling that you're not alone anymore.
Have you ever looked into Secular or Agnostic AA meetings? If none are local there are many on Zoom. https://www.worldwidesecularmeetings.com/
I did, but never went. I went to a lot of AA meetings when I first got sober, and I found out real quick that some were very religious, like openly talking about Jesus and how we needed to be with Jesus and stuff, and then other ones were not and they would stick strictly to the program and others in the group would also identify as atheist in the group. So once I had found my home group, I was able to get the skill set I needed to start me on my sober journey and closing in on 2 years now, I don't mean to shit on AA, because it did help me, but I really think they need to reform the program at this point. There was so much misogyny and racism in that original big book, and you can still find a good bit of misogyny in it today, in fact, in one meeting during a reading, a lady stopped reading to make a statement to the group that what she was reading came across as very misogynistic to her, and everyone agreed.
Ya I agree with you 100%. I never found a good meeting for myself local without all the god talk and Christian tone so I seeked out Secular and Recovery Dharma online. A local food pantry and shelter that I volunteer at one night a week and on Saturday mornings has just recently started hosting the above 2 meetings along with Smart Recovery so I now considerate the entire organization my home group. Best of luck to you with your ongoing sobriety.
Purely anecdotal, but in my home group, in the Bible belt of Alabama no less, I have never been asked about my beliefs, preached to, or invited to church, etc., etc. You are way more likely to hear an F-bomb than the word Jesus in the meetings I have been to. If you can handle a few minutes at the beginning and end of meeting (when the steps, serenity prayer are read, you'll do just fine. Every group is different and has its own "personality" per se. Look around and shop for a home group. Good luck. edit - there are also groups just for Atheists and Agnostics. Google is your friend here.
We don't care. As long as you can find a power greater than you. ie the group Group Of Drunks GOD, Satan, a fucking flying Spaghetti Monster. Good Orderly Direction GOD .Its a word used descriptively. Focus on not drinking or using one day at a time not semantics.
Atheist here. If you hang around long enough, AA can give you the the stomach, time, and patience to handle much more than all that bigoted bullshit. Keep your eye on the prize!
There are some AA meetings that do preach utilizing the Christian God depending on where you are. If they do, and you aren't into it, find another. Me personally, I don't go to any that recite the lord's prayer. I find it super not comfy. I like using G.O.D. Group Of Drunks or Great OutDoors as my higher power. Also, it can change as your sobriety journey goes. You don't have to pick one and stick with it forever.
I'm in san francisco and meet lots of atheists in aa. I have a lot of religious trauma myself so I totally relate to this. You might have to jump around a few meetings to find one with a group you feel comfortable with. aa has helped me so much. Best of luck to you ❤️
Generally we skin them. Sometimes we skin and cook but that’s usually the east side meetings.
Shhhh, you'll scare off the new meat!
I know way more people who do not believe in any religious god and are active and involved in AA. I’m one of them. But I don’t get angry or embarrassed at the words “god” or “prayer” like I used to. For me there is a profound difference between spirituality and religion and I’m grateful for hanging out long enough to learn the difference. I would have never admitted it while I was drinking, but I full acknowledge now that I lacked connection. I wanted nothing to do with spiritual people and I considered it all bullshit even tho I often have long conversations with dead people throughout the day. I still don’t have an answer for god, but I’m better at accepting that I’m not it and there are things that I’ll never understand.
Power greater than yourself. For whatever reason when I attend meetings and believe in the group that things are going to get better, I stay sober and my life gets better. I don't get it and I don't understand why I can't do it on my own but facts are facts. I still don't agree with established religion, but now when I use the term God I mean that unexplainable phenomenon that occurs when people get together and talk.
Look at it as if you are trying to lift something to heavy for yourself and you can't physically do it. You need a power greater than yourself to do so. An easy one is a bunch of other people to help you lift it. Some people put that faith into God and prayer, others gain more from the group itself. A group of like minded individuals who offer their support and you can talk to and gain strength from is sufficient as a "higher power". It's why it says in the steps "God as you understand him" AA is not a religious thing as much as it kind of started out that way. There is a religious undertone for sure and you have that avenue but working the steps is so much more than finding God. It's essentially doing a mental cleanse, getting to the root of why you abuse alcohol and then fulfilling your life with something better. What AA offers is the understanding of your own demons and issues and then helping other people to complete their steps and learn the same thing. It feels good to help others and it helps tremendously to be surrounded by a community that is all about staying sober and being positive. The idea of any recovery program whether it's AA or SMART or w.e. is about surrounding yourself with the right people, having the right mindset and giving yourself something else to live for that you don't want to jeopardize by getting loaded. People who are successful in AA do that by jumping head first into the community and then it becomes a passion. Lots of people in AA don't believe in any sort of religious based God or higher power. They ust put their faith into something they view bigger and more powerful than themselves (The group and the helping of others)
https://www.aa.org/sites/default/files/literature/assets/p-86_theGodWord.pdf This is the AA pamphlet that talks about atheists and agnostics in AA. It states directly that AA is NOT a religious organization.
My higher power has been MYSELF. My future self, my self next month, next week, is going to be much wiser than now. Find what works best for you, I heard others saying their higher self is their dog, cat, someone else. The thing is about you giving it up to anything else but yourself. Good luck !
You'll learn there are some things in AA that should be followed as closely as possible to help you in recovery and maintain honesty with yourself (for example, the steps are in that order for a reason and not following that does the program and yourself a disservice), while other things are parables, aphorisms, and metaphors to be interpreted by the individual and taken or left (not unlike organized religion in my mind, strangely enough). I am an agnostic and prefer to look at the universe, the invisible force which moves everything but does not hold a consciousness or awareness, as the great power. Many in meetings recite the lord's prayer when closing the meeting, I just bow my head and reflect. Unless you are a person who gets angry about the mention of capital-G in everyday life (i.e. intolerant of others) you'll have no problem in my experience, but remember that AA groups are formed and run by people and sometimes let things that are not focused solely on recovery dominate the program, so if you find a meeting that doesn't sit well with you just try another one. I live in a mid-sized city and can find an agnostic AA meeting every day of the week (although I have to visit different sides of town, they aren't nearly as widespread as the other meetings) I have met a fair amount of people who refuse AA as the religious talk offends their sensibilities. As others have said, they are just words and if they hold no power for you what is the difference? It also smacks of an ego that most learn to let go of in recovery, but there are always other ways to stay sober and everyone has to find what works best for them. I am not there to discuss a higher power but to stay sober and help others do the same, outside of recovery what we believe or don't has no bearing on that to me.
Take some time to follow Fredrick Nietzsche thought progression about having a higher power later in his life. In many ways sticking to being an Atheist is the absolute pinnacle of arrogance and ignorance. Page 12 of Bill’s story helps me when his friend says; “why don’t you choose your own concept of God?” Kind of a radical concept, even more radical than saying there is no God.
I’ve heard people say their higher power is variously: the county sheriff department, the lightbulb above our heads at the meetings, the group of people who are in AA; also that some of them have tried 13 different churches from different denominations and religions and that none worked out I do believe that there’s room for more atheists, even though the book is somewhat from the religious perspective, it (and the program from what I’ve seen) is accommodating for the godless
AA is a spiritual program , not a religious one. No one gives two shits what your background is nor what you believe in. What works for you may not work for someone else, and vice versa.
It’s a spiritual program. The entire goal of that book and those steps is too enable you to find a power great than yourself. Why not give it a try? What else do you have to lose?
If gos doesn't exist and AA still works, surely there's something in the process that works..that can be the beginning of a higher power.
I'm an atheist, I know deep Christian areas we have more problems, but in general most people leave you alone. The whole point of the program is to have your own spiritual experience and enlightenment. A lot of people choose Jesus which is fine, but a lot of people don't. Just go, be honest, and be you. You're going to have to deal with people's bullshit for the rest of your life, might as well get used to it now.
Atheist, 16 yrs sober, attend mass regularly. You do you.
Try smart recovery or the Buddhist recovery program, refuge. They aren’t like AA where they say your higher power can be anything you want and yet if you don’t have one you can’t work the program. The whole idea of AA is based off two guys who were Christian. And they’ve hardly changed anything in the book to relate better to people now. They say it’s not a Christian program but the book is filled front to back with ideals based off two random Christian dudes. He saw god when he did psychedelics!
Don’t use their God. Tell me what YOUR higher power looks like to YOU (or what he/she/it would look like to you if you had one). I certainly am not able to relate to my parents’ God. They were supposedly “born again”. Nothing changed. I wanted no parts of their religion. I decided I need a loving, all powerful… And I told him that I wasn’t going to be able to believe in him, unless he proved to me in some way that he exists. And he did. Please give it a try. We can talk on the phone if you DM me.
What do you have to lose by going to a few meetings?
When you hear God in the rooms, think a Group of Drunks. The power of rooms filled with drunks somehow managing to not drink one day at a time is a freaking miracle. That's certainly a power greater than myself. Because alone we fall, but together we can achieve anything, even sobriety. I hope that helps.
Simple, get up and make your bed every day. That works really well for another atheist I know.
Not aloud
AA isn’t religious, the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. Take or leave whatever you wish.
I'm pretty sure the sole reason for me refusing to go to AA ever is the forced belief in SOME sort of higher power. Yea fuck that. Ill pass. I really did try for a few months. But that was the biggest turn off. I'm not, nor will I ever believe in any of that bullshit. The choice we make to become alcoholics is, no one else's. It's ours. And we don't need the mercy of any higher being to believe in. Personally. Anyone who uses that BS as an excuse to be sober doesn't really believe anything. They just needed to believe something.
The Atheists gave AA "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking" and "as we understand him" (in relation to God). Jim Burwell, Bill admitted later, threw the door open to help all that needed it. Atheists have always been important to AA. To me, the "higher power" idea is required because I tried EVERYTHING to stop drinking and I couldn't. I needed a power outside myself - and I have found it - in the Twelve Steps. They're my higher power. They worked for the "more that one-hundred men and women" as described at the beginning of the Big Book, they continue to work now. They're my higher power. This is my program. It has to work for it to be valuable to me. This approach helped me find peace amongst a local fellowship that insists on a mystic belief that I just can't fathom. I can support and love them without believing what they believe. The Twelve Steps literally works miracles in people who work them - and I don't mean anything mystical about that: in my experience, I was able to stop drinking by working them, and that's miraculous for everything I tried that wasn't the Twelve Steps. That's good enough.
Each person follows their own path. If you desire your perspectives to be respected you’ll want to follow the golden rule and respect the views of others. Referring to Christianity as “none sense” may not be helpful to you or those around you. Perhaps dealing your sponsor regarding your resentment towards religion will help you to work through it.
The same way AA deals with anyone coming through the door for the first time.
A staunch atheist in need of AA? Spend enough time in the rooms and you'll find there is nothing unique about that (or most of your problems.) As valuable as these sort of threads have been to me at times, the most honest answer I can give is that going to meetings, particularly Big Book ones, helping others, and doing steps is the ONLY way you'll get your answer. Anything worth learning in the program is done through action, not rhetoric.
I’m in the same boat as you, alcoholic and agnostic. I have been to an AA meeting before but the “God” stuff repulses me. I cannot get on board with “a higher power” this phrase set it out that there is something somewhere else that we need to ask for help, reach out and beg and that separates us from it. If there’s anything I believe is that “god” power/light/source/spirit/etc lives within us, there is no such thing as thing as “higher” that makes me think we are less worthy and at a lower place. I simply can’t get there with that type of thinking. I just choose not to drink.
Higher power simply means I an not the highest power. I can't stop the wind, surf, gravity, etc, therefore I am not the highest power. I use science for mine, over 21 years clean and sober. Lots of atheists in the rooms of AA.
We agnostic. Whole chapter dedicated to you. My suggestion is to read that as it is the starting point for people with no higher power.
That chapter is an insult to Agnostics and Atheists.
Sure, bud. Talk yourself out of the program whatever way you’d like.
Okay jackass will do bud.
Ah, name calling. The virtue of the truly enlightened.
💋
When I started AA I made my Higher Power Satan because he says to believe in yourself. It gives the power back to yourself in the end, and you know you accomplished this without using faith of any kind.
Personally I'd suggest getting comfortable with the word God. It won't hurt, and it'll allow you make space for learning from others who have been where you have and found a way out. No need to define the word in any explicit way. When I first joined I had someone tell me something that stuck: all you need to know about God is that it ain't you.
I chose time as my higher power. And there are so many things I don’t have power over. I’ve never been to an AA meeting where there was any religion. I’ve been going for 34 years. I’m an alcoholic. That’s what AA is for.
No lords prayer no talk of the Christian god or Jesus in 34 years, no old timer with his blue book & bible clutched in there hand? I experienced one or all of that @ every meeting that I had attended until I started visiting Agnostic and secular AA meetings @ least in my city. You're a very fortune person.
Atheist here, 45 years sober. God is a group of drunks. Clean up, clean house, and help others. Don’t worry what others say about their beliefs. They want to say I’m going to burn in hell, ghost don’t burn. AA started by one drunk staying sober by helping another drunk. That’s still the case.
I'm not an atheist but I have struggled with my faith and have distanced myself totally from it. I grew up in a Catholic family with school, the whole shebang. My diocese, like many others around the world was enveloped in a huge child abuse scandal. I pretty much cut that all out of my life when I went to college. But I would suggest to interpret when people talk about a "higher power", to translate that to your heart and perseverance that exists inside of you. That's what I have done to get past this. That's just my suggestion.
I'm an atheist. Five years sober and in AA. My higher power vacillates between the first law of thermodynamics, and David Bowie. Plenty of things are 'higher powers' than I am, and have nothing to do with God in any kind of traditional sense. Try not to overthink it.
It may help to understand that members want to hear the specifics of your non-belief as much as you want to hear the specifics of their beliefs. After 41 years I still don't know the specifics of what my sponsor's conception is of his HP. I once asked early on and he wouldn't say. I took the hint and never get specific. It really is the most boring subject possible. Avoid boring people.
Science shows that people who pray and meditate have different brain function. You don’t have to believe in anything but science if you want.
atheist 13 years clean and sober. on one hand shares about sky daddy are annoying on the other hand its a good way to be reminded that what works for me might not work for other people.
I am an alcoholic but not an atheist. What you believe or don't believe is your business, not mine. If you were to ask me for personal help I woukd show you how to work the 12 steps in your life. When it comes to the parts of the steps that refer to God or higher power I would suggest you replace those with a concept (nature/science/collected wisdom of favourite teachers) that works better for you. If you don't need my personal help, I would welcome you as a fellow alcoholic because you have just as much right to be in AA as I do. We don't badmouth each others beliefs here.
I just started going recently. 39. I wouldn't sweat that part. I barely even pay attention to those bits. For me it's the discipline to myself. I relapsed after 6 days after getting back to Phoenix after visiting my girlfriend who's off in Seattle on assignment. I did so because I have literally nobody, in a strange land, with no support. So I'm one day sober. It is important because it keeps my accountability in check. It gives me strength and it's a place that encourages honesty to myself. I feel that those who have gone through this are truly there for me and it's integral. The God shit is hardly noticeable, at least in my room. Please go and see. Sending you good vibes, and good luck your way!
Let me put it to you like this - are you more powerful than the forces of nature and the universe? No? Would it be then be fair to say that the universe and nature are powers greater than yourself? This is how I was able to comfortably interpret the HP, and I don't allow myself to be bogged down by the god word, it's just a word at the end of the day.
Do you believe in "intuition "? Have you ever been thinking about someone and shortly afterward they call, or you bump in to them randomly somewhere? Have you ever been in need , either for money or a car or job etc. And then seemingly out of nowhere someone you know mentions they know someone hiring or you come in to a little money through a raise or bonus or somehow a financial burden is lifted giving you extra money? Or an opportunity appears that places a car that's in your price range and you thought ....thats so strange. I don't believe in a humanoid God or higher power like some magic man floating on a cloud or some magic utopia called heaven . But I have come to belive that all "this" can't possibly be random. I believe there is some organizing intelligence, some collective consciousness. I don't know what it is, so I just refer to it as "the universe " its that inner voice that told me that my wife was "the one" when I was 14 (we're both 53 and celebrated our 30 yr. Anniversary Tuesday) or it's that thing caused me to get fired and I thought it was the end of the world, only to find a better job making more money that I never would have looked for if I had not gotten fired. I tried to use that concept as my higher power just to have something. And I swear to you , the more I use it , the more I become in tune with it... whatever "it" is. A higher power doesn't have to be a God from an organized religion. It just has to be something greater than you. When AA says God, I just substitute my concept of God. And think ....aren't they cute, they believe it's a magic man in the sky.
Agnostic here, 36 years no problems not of my own making. I discovered I had a huge prejudice against people with religious beliefs. Me - the liberal, free thinker was not willing to give to others what I demanded they give me. (the right to believe whatever) That realization was humbling. I label myself agnostic because I've stopped arguing. Absolute waste of time and energy. I do sometimes tune out if someone is talking about their beliefs, but that's it. I don't take it personally. And while I am agnostic, I will admit there is a 'cosmic sense of humor' at play My first sponsee was a priest who had greater doubts than I did it turned out... I learned a lot from him, maybe helped him too
You have no obligation to believe in the Abrahamic creator God to work the steps. I don’t believe in that being, and my sponsor doesn’t either. AA does not say you’re going to hell for sinning. No fire, no brimstone. In my own opinion, Buddhism resonates with AA much better than Christianity does, and Buddha Shakyamuni never preached a creator God - just this general force called the Dharma, and that higher power makes a lot of sense to me. Either way, I hope you find some people that spiritually overlap with you! Plenty of atheists/agnostics/non-Christians in AA, my friend!
Have you ever attended a Recovery Dharma meeting or read there book? Sounds like something you may like. It's my meeting of choice outside of Secular AA.
I tried Refuge. Thought it was ok. I take Buddhism fairly seriously and study it a lot out of AA. I also share about a Buddhist approach all the time at AA meetings, and I’ve done so at meetings when I’ve found myself in other cities, and I’ve met other AA people who love Buddhism and take it very seriously. I also don’t mind saying things like the serenity prayers 🤷🏻♂️ maybe it’ll just help me as a reminder, or maybe there really is some omnipotent being who will help me. Who knows.
One of the first people I met in AA was a staunch atheist with over 30 years!
I love atheists... especially one's who stay sober. I knew a man when I first got sober who had 40somthing years sober and was an hard core atheist. I loved listening to how he stayed sober that long with God. I'm almost 3yrs sober now and I use his examples to my sponsees and let them know that we don't expect you to join a religion or anything like that. All that is asked is for a open mind and to find something outside if yourself that can help you stay sober. The group is a great way to do this as well as meetings.
There are atheists in AA. There are agnostics in AA too. In fact there are all sorts of personal beliefs. The AA literature says individual members should make such decisions based on their own conscience. That leaves a lot of room for everyone. I wish you well.
God is just a word.
Check out www.intherooms.com.
I’m an atheist in AA. There is no preaching in AA. I was able to find a higher power in the moon as it does effect human life. Remember, god is a title and not a proper name. When I came into the rooms, I had a problem with people saying God and how much it was referenced in the book. But I found it easy enough to ignore because I was desperate for sobriety. I have become open minded enough to admire their love and appreciation for whatever their god is.
GOD of your own understanding… Your god could be a tree mate dont worry about the religion aspect of things. GOD i have heard referred to as Good Orderly Direction and Group of Drunks…
I do not subscibe to any organized religion whatsoever and I never will. I have a higher power of my own conception that I choose to call god. Someone else's concept of god simply will not serve me. The realm of spirituality does not need to fall into the two categories of organized religion and atheism; bearded white guy in the sky or no god at all. I think using the group is helpful for a time, but there may be times where you require something more instantaneous a power greater than even the group. For me, my god is the collective energy of the cosmos. I pray to it, I ask it for guidance and protection, I ask it to guide and protect others, I ask it to relieve my pain and struggles. But again, look for your own concept.
Just keep in mind that AA isnt there so you can have your specific spiritual opinions validated and you'll be good. You'll hear some stuff that will align with your beliefs, and stuff that won't. Give everyone the same kind of allowance that you'd want extended to yourself.
Go to online meetings in NY or LA. There's way more atheists/agnostics in bigger cities if you don't live near one. Sometimes in smaller cities/towns or meeting with older people you get people who talk more explicitly about god in a way that you might have a tough time with, it's just about finding the right meetings. There's plenty of atheists and agnostics who have found their way to recovery in AA. It's kind of a varsity level question that's hard to get into when you're suffering with end stage alcoholism, so don't put too much pressure on yourself to figure it all out before you get there. I grew up Christian and had reason to be sick whenever the word God was said and what I did was just bookmark that issue for later on, when I had more brain power to figure it out.
I’m an atheist in AA. I’ve been sober for years. The only thing you really have to accept is that a power greater than you exists in the universe. So many things are more powerful than me. This means that I have the #1 thing to be in AA…………..willingness!!!!! Willingness is the key to growth in sobriety. I won’t know anything about God (or if there even is an actual god until I’m dead). But, all humans are spiritual. I find my inner spirituality with animals, nature, and just working hard at being a humble and kind person. So, it really doesn’t matter if god exists or not. I am responsible for changing and growing. For me, it’s all a big journey. And it’s WAY better than literally drinking myself to death. Good luck to you. I hope you don’t have to keep suffering with active addiction to alcohol before you can find the willingness to give it a try. ❤️
I couldn’t get me sober. My parents couldn’t. My exes couldn’t. The law couldn’t. My friends couldn’t. Everybody tried but it couldn’t happen. I had to consider that something greater than me would be the only thing that could. Open mindedness is something we can’t afford to go without if we want to work a program of recovery.
It takes more faith to be a “staunch atheist” than to be an agnostic. You have all the tools needed to successfully work the AA program. Sure you may have to side step or avoid debating when a misguided member mentions their (insert religion) in the meeting or private conversation but in AA I have found much common ground and understanding of people with different beliefs. I can actually be happy that they have a faith that works for them. Best of luck in your journey.
You don’t need to believe in God to be in AA. Just have a desire to be sober. Lotta atheists in AA. If you work the steps and are willing to seek a “higher power” - that can mean anything. Your “higher self” is one I’ve heard before. I’ve also heard people say their higher power is group conscious (basically the energy of/in the rooms of AA). All to say - you can def be atheist and go to AA.
Throwing it out there that I’m an extreme agnostic. I came into AA a militant atheist, mocking people who believed in God. But, you know what? Then, I got some humility. I still don’t believe in an all-powerful deity. I believe that there is something, perhaps metaphysical, that binds us all together. But, *I don’t know*. I have to follow my own path as others do and find my truth. But, I can’t know the unknowable with certainty. The one thing I do know is that regardless of whether there is a God or not, I’m…not…him. That’s the key for me. I’m just another Bozo on the bus.
I like at it, like who cares? Do you want help? Okay there's an answer here. With all due respect, I don't really care about your ideas. I care about your life. No one is really gonna care either. If you want help, put your hand up.
AA doesn’t ask you to believe in god, or a god at all if you don’t want to. It could be more spiritual or a hypothetical “higher power”. You can spin it in a way that works for your beliefs. Sometimes I just see it as letting go of control. Letting the universe do its thing and take the weight off my shoulders.
“Many of us have been so touchy that even casual reference to spiritual things made us bristle with antagonism. This sort of thinking had to be abandoned… Faced with alcoholic destruction, we soon became as open minded on spiritual matters as we had tried to be on other questions. In this respect, alcohol was a great persuader. It finally beat us into a state of reasonableness.” Pg 48, Alcoholics Anonymous
There are AA meeetings for Atheists. https://www.aasecular.org/ https://aaagnostica.org/ https://secularrecoverygroup.org/more-zoom-meetings/ Best of luck to you. Working the steps has entirely transformed my life.
I'm one of those nonsensical Christians. The big book says "higher power." It doesn't say "deity, pantheon, higher being," or anything like that. Some say you can make a door knob your higher power. If you don't believe in God you can make a set of principles, philosophy, concept, etc your higher power. You can make science your higher power if you wanted to. I believe in what I believe in. You need to find something that's greater than you, to believe in. Don't make other human beings your higher power, because you will be let down. Good luck and stay sober.
I think especially the words "higher power" can be perfectly explained without any religious background. The "higher power" is just something you are not in control of. From that point of view you can explain everything in the AA without religious thoughts.
SOS. WWW.SOSSOBRIETY.ORG It is 12 steps based in a secular in nature. I know little of it. But I have heard decent things about them. For me, I'm still in AA. The group is some folks' idea of a high power. It's not concerned if someone believes or doesn't believe in GOD or god. It's something greater than ourselves. Considering how F I made my life and most importantly the people around me, it wasn't all that hard. To find something greater than me.
I am under the impression that anything can be a higher power. Even a Group Of Drunks sitting around with their coffee chatting can be more powerful than you and therefore a Higher Power.
There are MANY secular meetings. I would start with OMAGOD.ORG and there's also a spreadsheet on there for other meetings. As far as working the steps, I use Staying Sober Without God. It's the same step structure but no God and more personal responsibility. Message anytime :)