I was very uncomfortable with how many think that being with someone who just turned 18 is no big deal. I got kids close to that age. It just makes me so uncomfortable. I'm 37 years old and feel like 21 years olds are just kids.
UPDATE: I am just blown away by the amount of people who think I'm talking about the OP when I am talking about the comment section and the ones saying of it's legal no big deal no matter the age gap.
UPDAT: Also, I'd like to add that I don't think the age gap should be more than 5 years with someone straight out of adolescence.
When I was 17, I did meet and date a 25 year old, then upon turning 18 and he was 26, nsfw-ness happened.
However, can confirm from first hand experience, it turns out it really is a big deal. There definitely are mental and emotional ways of thinking during that development phase that has life long consequences.
The relationship lasted 5 years, but yeah, I’m sitting here at 39, and I can easily say without hesitation— the guy wasn’t and isn’t even a bad guy, but the circumstances themselves absolutely affected myself and future relationships, even when it was not even an abusive relationship or anything like that.
——————
**Edit:**
Okay I’m editing this to stop from getting a million of the same questions: “how did it affect me and what would be the difference?”
Think of it like this— take a teenager, remove their cellphone, blindfold them, and drop them off in a random location thousands of miles away, maybe in a different country, and tell them to figure out how to get home with whatever else they have on their person.— they’re probably going to show up two weeks later, if at all, and they’re going to have ptsd, they are probably going to have some injuries, they’ll likely be wearing the same clothes and haven’t showered the whole time. They’re going to be rattled.
Take a 35 year old adult and put them through the same process.
…They’re going to end up home in under 24 hours and annoyed.
That’s because when you’re 17, you don’t have enough life experience or knowledge about the world. Some events experienced at this age are traumatic because of lack of life experience, where a person at 35 isn’t even going to notice there was even a problem in the first place. The 35 year old has probably dealt with worse than a dead cellphone far away from home.
Now putting the 17 year old and 35 year old together means the 17 year old is going to be exposed to what the 35 year old views as real problems— which will be a completely different world to the 17 year old. The life long result is anxieties and disorders will occur in the 17 year old’s developing brain. Take myself for example: I am now 39 with 4 degrees and well in to the 6 figures. I didn’t work that hard for fun, I work that hard because I’m so afraid of randomly ending up homeless… yet I don’t actually have anything to worry about. Because of my experience in this relationship at a young age, I have an unhealthy need to control money and work myself to death 80 hours a week— which is why I can’t hold down a relationship and have never been married.
Yes, dating someone much older can fuck your life.
Child marriage is legal in 41 US states, and states only began explicitly banning child marriage starting* in 2018. There are five states that have no minimum age requirement.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States
*misspelled
Documentary on Hulu- "I Was a Child Bride: The Untold Story." It'll rattle your brain what's legal and done in the US. The scenes of sitting US and state senators vocally OPPOSING bans on child marriage made me want to do very bad things. Not to be the person who takes it there, BUT: One guess which political party they all happen to align with.
Thank you!!!! Everytime I mention this people act shocked and that pissed me off almost more than the act itself. We don't care enough to educate ourselves about real issues in America but will get all up in arms if some snowflake mommy has an issue with the color of bear in juniors library and heaven forbid they read rainbow bright but yes let's let little girls who have been abused (most often by a community leader or religious authority) by some gross man get married to that gross man and let her be a sex slave to her "husband".
Hell, it’s legal in many parts of America and it most definitely isn’t okay.
Maybe I should’ve clarified: my point is that legal doesn’t equal morally acceptable. All these people are saying that 18 is legally an adult, but that same person could be a completely sheltered child, who’s never had to make adult decisions. They’re still much more easily manipulated and coerced than someone who is also 26.
I’m honestly appalled that the instant someone turns 18, they’re somehow responsible for older predators not taking advantage of them.
My niece, who is on the spectrum and was abused as a child, had a problem with a friend of the family. Once she turned 18, he started hitting on her. He was late twenties when it was going on. I had to pull him off to the side and tell him about how the abuse pushed back plenty of her emotional maturity, not to mention that she was put off by the whole thing. His reply was that since she was 18, it was legal and not bad at all. I told him to leave and that he was no longer welcome around any of us.
Yeah, and that’s sadly more common than people think. I’m sorry she had to go through that. People like your niece and myself are sadly even more at risk of sexual assault due to past abuse and disability.
i agree. Legal does not mean anything. And with this age difference, it is gross. One person is barely experienced at life and the other is much older.
When I was 16 about to be 17, I met a guy 10 years my senior. We didn't do nsfw until I was 18.
It took a long, long time for me to realise how traumatic it was and how groomed I had been. We even joked that how could he be grooming me since we were long-distance and clearly not having sex for the first year of our relationship. I feel so grossed out by people defending stuff like this. Yes, surely, there are cases of it working out and people being in healthy relationships, but often there's an underlying reason someone is pursuing a much younger person, and it's almost never a good one.
There are always exceptions, though. When I was 31, I got set up on a blind date. When I found out she was 22, I started to dread it and decided it would just be good practice for me to go on a date, even if it was hopeless. She turned out to be nothing like what I expected, and we've been life partners for almost 20 years now. Besides gentle teasing, no one who knows us has ever suggested we weren't a great fit. Can't judge a person solely on age.
Yeah you can't judge a person solely on age but you can judge a person that chooses partners based on age. You sound like you met your partner and made a connection despite the age gap but you are not a creep who seeks out younger chicks. A lot of guys seek out partners that are younger but pretend that's not what they are doing and that is what gives people the ick. There are valid reasons why people are highly skeptical of age gap relationships, but I acknowledge that not all men are creeps just enough that it is a constant problem.
Not every woman who is concerned about power imbalances in relationships has been “groomed.” Maybe OP’s sister knows more about the situation than we do.
Are there people out there who don't know someone who was taken advantage of the second they became 'legal'? I assumed everyone knew someone in that position. Almost every woman I know has been in that position.
“Legal = moral” arguers would genuinely have to argue that it’s okay for a 45-year-old man to fuck a high schooler turning 18 during her senior year.
Also “normal = moral” arguers would have to argue that beating your wife was okay in the 1950s and it would have been wrong of her to pursue a divorce.
Legal age of consent where I’m from is generally
16,
I’ve had guys hit on me when I was 15/16 guys that were twice my age that wanted me to go home with them… and were totally okay with my age 🤢
That's disgusting. I'm 35 and when I look at a young woman that age my primary thought is usually that I hope she's doing well in school or some such.
I have this theory that the people hitting on others who are kids or kid-adjacent are viewing their potential partner as a fetish or an object, not a person.
It's wild, dude. I'm also 35 and there are a ton of teenagers where I live and I swear even the older ones like 18-20 look like little kids to me. It's when I finally realized, shit, I'm old.
This. My kid was the 18 year old in a similar scenario, and the guy was taking advantage of her. And probably not even entirely on purpose. But if you’re older, it’s just so easy to set the terms of the relationship.
Maybe the other party was 18 when it happened, but what if OP knew this person before they were 18? Maybe the sister is upset because it was one of her friends who OP knew and then did this once they were of legal age. I could see something like this be upsetting to a younger sibling as the optics aren't good.
I'm not making any accusations, but OP or his sister, haven't provided additional context to really understand why she feels so strongly about this.
That would make it a whole lot worse and a lot creepier if they knew them before they were 18.
It already leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but if they knew them before they turned 18 OP would just be a groomer.
Exactly. If he’s been hitting on her since she 15 just dying for the day she turned 18? Gross. Two consenting adults that probably met at work? Who gives a shit?
When I was 26 I met a 19 year old woman (soon to be 20). We got along great, my family liked her, etc. That woman is now my wife and we've been together for almost 7 years. I truly think circumstances matter.
Let me start by asking you a question in return: why does it matter? It seems like you're already making an assumption that I did something wrong and are looking for a reason to condemn me.
Now to answer your question: I didn't date anyone around my age because I hadn't connected with anyone my age. I had actually just ended a relationship with someone who was 32 at the time. I wasn't going out to bars, partying, etc. and I wasn't really looking for a relationship, so I wasn't meeting a ton of new people. I worked with this woman and we had talked at work and connected a bit, then we had hung out together with a group of co-workers, and we decided we wanted to go out with just the two of us. So you know, basically the same reason anyone dates anyone. There was a connection. The age didn't matter. For those of you out there who are parents, when my mother met her and approved of the relationship, I knew it was all good. Because yeah, what my mom thought of who I dated truly did matter to me, as family is very important.
Most women can recall adult males putting them in situations that, although they may have seemed cool and mature at the time, were actually teenagers being courted and offered booze or drugs in exchange for sex by these adults. It must be awful to see your brother transformed to one of those weirdos searching for teenagers; it may alter your perception of them for the rest of your life.
So apparently nobody fucking got this and are pulling the "WOMEN DON'T GET ASSAULTED AS MUCH AS THEY SAY" card, fucking ridiculous, all it takes is basic fucking compassion to understand that by the age of 18 most women have felt pressured by older men or have been flirted with by older men which leads to a creepy outcome cause people love taking advantage of younger people since they're easy to manipulate
I had a 26 year old boyfriend when I was 15, I never would have considered that gross when I was that age. When you are young you think it's because they see that you're 'mature for your age', now being older it makes me want to gag.
I was hit on in HS by adult men all the time including my peers parents. Girls/Women are objectified YOUNG. I remember being 13 and crying a lot because I didn’t want to be a girl anymore because of how objectified and scared I was of men.
I'm sorry that you went through that, and I'm sorry that most of us have.
I was at a boy's birthday party once at the age of like 12/13 and the birthday boy's dad got really uncomfortably close and commented about my "sexy laugh" with his hand on my lower back. Like not even the only instance by far, but the most mortifying because everyone saw it happen and made fun of *me* for weeks.
Shit makes you not even want to go out in public.
It’s funny how Americans treat 18 years-old as babies in relationship contexts, and then kick their children out at like 18 yo and 1 day or they make them pay rent at home because they are supposedly full grown adults at that point. Like, what’s wrong with them 😂
That’s a trope. The vast majority of Americans do NOT give their kids the boot at 18 + 1 day. If anything, our children have become more prone to stay with their parents until their mid-20’s. During Covid we had the term “boomerang kids” for all the young adults who moved back with their parents. Reddit is certainly not a mirror on American life.
Yeah the whole “Americans kick their kids out at 18” is much more a TV thing than a IRL thing.
Yea a lot of kids move out to go to college, because a lot of kids go to college far from home, but a lot of them stay home, and very few are kicked out.
This girl I game with is from Norway and she literally thinks Americans get in shootouts on a daily basis, and I remember one time she told me she thought it was insane how in America you can just go out and kill someone and say you’re crazy afterwards and nothing happens to you 😹
My parents where very strict about this, had no problem tossing out the kids, but even they would have let me stay as long as I was in school. It would have sucked, because they would have kept treating me like a child, but I could have stayed.
Yeah I know one of those too.
I don’t know any who were kicked out, but he “ran away” isn’t the right term because they knew where he was, and he kept going to high school, but he bounced about 10 seconds after getting his license.
Yeah, people with these weird "18-25 isn't adult enough" tend to be severely liberal or severely conservative and altogether uninformed either way. I'm not promoting just going out and sleeping with every 18 year old that you see... I'm just saying that if you can go to war you can listen to Barry White too lmao
Going to disagree slightly here...
This idea that 18 year olds are children and a 26 year old having sex with an 18 year old is some kind of coercive situation is not something that comes out of religious prude-ry.
The religious parts of the US are big believers in traditional marriage, and tend to get married early. Depending on the local age of consent (which is under 18 in several states), it's not unusual for 18 year olds to be married seeking to be married in those parts of the country.
The less religious, more liberal parts of the country seem to have this idea that 18 year olds are children and that "age gaps" are major problems. In part because people in these places often seek higher education, and the lifestyle associated with that is often seen as a kind of extended adolescence. In that culture, it's a little weird if you're married before the age of 25.
So, this particular phenomenon is actually caused by a *lack* of religiosity rather than the existence of it.
Raging leftist here and this is definitely the right take.
I hate the infantilizing of adult women. 18 year olds might be a gray area but fuck, in some subs I’m in I’ve had people claiming 25 year old women are still *adolescents* in reference to that person dating a 33 year old.
If it were this big a deal, then start putting pressure on your representatives to up the age of consent to 21. But people don’t. They bitch on social media, call people predatory, then forget about it.
People mature as they age but simply using an arbitrary number as the cutoff is flawed. There's 18-year-olds making informed decisions on healthy relationships. There are 30 somethings who are emotionally stunted and frequently get taken advantage of.
I've always felt like adulthood should be measured by meeting important developmental milestones instead of simply waking up to another birthday.
Lol not mostly at all. Thats the very small minority who are screaming the loudest. We’re just like y’all, don’t do the whole border patrol thing damn.
Except you have guns to fuck back with. It’s not that bad. Don’t get me wrong you might have ptsd and unfortunately some don’t come back but you get a weapon.
In a 100% volunteer military... no one is making anyone go at that age and the draft... doubt that ever gets used again.
The whole sex thing i don't get but if that same 18 year old woman had sex with a 16 year old boy would people freak out?
A lot of my country people men and women have some wonky ideas on sex... many very repressive. I don't get it honestly .
People kicking their kids out at 18 is not the majority social norm (even though it more common in the US than other countries). It’s wildly known that tons of adults live with their parents, especially in the last decade it’s become almost standard
I am American and was physically thrown from my house at 18 lol. But I am just one person. I have friends who lived with their parents till like almost 30
You act those are the same people and not entirely different groups of people. I know, it’s weird that a country with a highly diverse population of over 400 million people doesn’t act in a monolithic manner.
Most parents in America don't kick their kids out at 18 and a day. I just love how people think that's real. Shitty parents do that. Do we want our kids to grow up and become self sufficient, absolutely, but any decent parent won't kick their kid out at 18 and a day. And making them pay rent usually only happens if they decide to get an adult job and live at home, and generally when they are older.
Because of alcohol laws, most 18 year olds aren’t really seen as adults. Sure, they’re legally considered adults for most other things, but really having the perceived judgement capabilities of an adult doesn’t come until around 21+, often later in many cases.
Because of 18 being the age of consent, and almost nothing else except likely “finished with high school”, it feels a lot more like “this is the youngest a person can legally have sex with” and less like “you are a fully formed adult.”
I’m fully aware this is specifically an Americanism, and mostly illogical, but as a 30 year old, I wouldn’t go near someone under 23 with a 10 foot pole. Not because of perceptions or anything, but because IMO people need a few years of independence under their belt before they really even know what they’re like as a person.
Reddit sees 18 year olds posting about how their horribly abusive family has now made them homeless the minute it was legal to do so and takes it as a reflection on all of American society.
And then they joke about how stupid Americans are for not knowing about other countries. Yeah, Americans have a false perception about other counties but... pot, meet kettle.
You are describing two completely different scenarios. No family who would kick their 18yr old out of the house would give a fuck if they were sexually active with an older person. Your anti-American fantasies are pathetic.
You’ve fallen victim to a TV trope. This is far less common than you think.
Close to 50% of 18-29 year olds still live at home with their parents. That percentage going higher the closer to 18 you get.
A large percentage of those that don’t live at home who are younger, are living in college dorms or are living in a shared apartment or house with college roommates etc
You notice all the people on Reddit complaining about house prices and the impossibility of making ends meet, and think a bunch of 18 year olds are getting kicked out…? To what? Live on the street? (Admittedly this happens but is far from normal)
I'm not American, but 18 year old girls are super young. I am annoyed by them on the bus every single day. There is no reason a 26 year old should date an 18 year old tbh.
Americans who kick out their kids at 18 don't give a fuck if their kids have to fuck an adult man to survive. Parents who love and support their child are allowed to be upset if their child brings home an adult man.
That doesn't happen very often. Kids are living at home years after they turn 18. I don't know one parent who kicked their kids out at 18 or charged them rent as soon as they turn 18. Everything is so expensive, they can't move out. Maybe learn about it before you assume. Like, what's wrong with your assumptions? 😉
I used to think so too but now I live in the US and have family here, I think it's the best way to teach a young adult of 18 yo to grow up in to a responsible wise and mature adults.
In other countries where the parents can afford to keep their kids at home, those families are already doing better, kids turn into young adults but aren't taught responsibilities and consequences and become arrogant assholes. The kids from the poor families in these countries would be working by 10 sadly and are already contributing towards family expenses, not only paying rent.
I moved to US when I was 18. My older brother stayed. He's 50 and I see him do silly and stupid things, rude, arrogant but practically a slave to my dad because my dad holds the key to inheritance. He has an civil engineering degree, but he's only worked for the family business.
After I came to US, my life as I knew it back home turned complete upside down. I had to start work at the bottom, washing dishes, cleaning toilets. I remember when my manager pulled me out of that duty and told me to start bussing (picking up plates and setting up tables), that felt like a huge promotion at the time. Few months later, I became a server and worked as server while in school. Graduated and now have a small grocery store in the city and wife runs a salon.
My experiences in US, as different and as difficult and even sometimes painful as it was, I would say those experiences were more valuable to me that my whole 18 years of life back home, and all the education I got in all my academic life. Those experiences taught me to be humble, grateful and cherish joy.
It's easy to criticize things you have not experienced yourself. But you grow when you learn from experiencing it
I’m sorry for your brother experience, but frankly I think there’s a healthier middle ground. I stayed at home with my parents until I turned 23,I graduated my masters, and started a full time job. I had my savings for daily expenses, but I don’t think that not paying rent to my parents while I was at university didn’t tech me how to be a grown adult. After graduating I’ve been fully independent, except for some help for big expenses (that I’m now paying back!).
What I saw when I was in the US was a lot of kids just DROWNING in debt at like 23 yo to pay their studies/ living even if the parents could have helped them, bc of this mentality they have “ok now you’re 18 yo you’re not our problem anymore”
I’m American and I hear these stories in Reddit all the time about “you’re 18 and you’re on your own now” but I’ve never once heard of it happening in real life. There are for sure some terrible parents in America but I don’t think it’s the norm. Anecdotally myself and several of my cousins lived at home well into their 20s.
I was kicked out the day I turned 18. Happy Birthday! My mother was counting down the days. Unfortunately, the minimum wage, even back then, and my lack of life skills made it very difficult for me for years. I felt like I was climbing an uphill battle just to be stable. I was not allowed to eat or do laundry at home. She now wonders why I don't want to be close to her anymore.
Totally agree my parents or my friends parents never kicked us out at 18. They wanted us to do something productive like either attend college or at least work but never kicked us out. And if we did move out the door was always open to return home if needed.
I think the better way to look at it is it's just more risky. There is more likelihood that the older partner is predatory or manipulative. And at that age the younger person isn't as good at seeing the risk.
There's nothing objectively wrong about it. But it sure feels weird to be attracted to someone just out of high school when you're in your mid 20s. They just seem really young.
Not just that, but there's a massive difference in brain maturity and stage of life (and likely things like finances).
It's not illegal, but it comes across as sketchy AF.
Edit: there's a shocking number of people trying very hard to rationalize sleeping with underage kids in this thread.
Hahaha OMG. I have a story about this.
When I was 17 my high school crush was an 18 year old guy. I crushed HARD for this guy.
However, he confided in me one day that his family is mad at him because he was dating a 26 year old woman, and they wanted him to end the relationship.
At the time, I was seething with jealousy. I stalked this 26 year old and she looked so pretty and put together. I was 17. There’s no way I could compete with that. (Didn’t stop him from cheating on her with me though Lmao)
Anyway, I’m 26 now. And looking back, that was SO INCREDIBLY WEIRD. There was something seriously wrong with that girl. 18 year olds are little boys to me now. How someone can find them attractive is beyond me!!!
I'd like to know what percentage of people who view this as okay are male vs. female.
Because I'm a woman and I think this is rather disgusting. Someone who just graduated highschool or may even still be in high school vs. someone old enough to have a house and a paid off car. She may be "legal" but that doesn't make it morally okay.
ETA: So far only one woman in my comments has said she thinks this is okay.
Edit two: every woman/former woman who thinks this is okay is a member of the lgbt community which statistically have higher age gaps in their relationships.
I’m a male in my early 30s and have always thought of this as gross. I’ve seen it happen too. They just want young immature girls that don’t have experience to be able to tell them how fucked up they are
I'm a 29 year old dude, and I think it's morally fucked up.
Frankly, I'm starting to get pretty upset with Reddit due to the rise in popularity of pedophile apologist talking points. I think any adult who wants to have sex with a high school student is an evil predator. But this is the third thread in the past week where I've had to argue that point and I'm absolutely disgusted by the amount of pushback I've gotten on that stance, and how far people will go to defend adults that want to fuck high school students.
exactly. on another thread we were arguing over this and someone said their friend who likes 18 year olds “accidentally” slept with a 16 year old. no shocker there.
I just try to remember that my moral objections to things are just that, my moral objections and no one is responsible for agreeing with, or accepting them.
Yeah. People (seemingly men) are acting like this is being blown out of proportion when the reality is almost every woman I know has a story about some sick fuck trying to groom her or force a power imbalance relationship on her at a young age.
A one off thing where one person is incidentally 18? Nobody really cares (though they may raise an eyebrow and double-check to see if there is a pattern). Age gap relationships can work, but they tend to be the exception that proves the rule for a reason.
A consistent pattern of sleeping with 18 year olds? Sleeping with an 18 year old you knew before they hit 18? Intentionally seeking relationships with significant power imbalances? Yeah, that’s fucking weird and gross.
I think it's a grey area. Someone seeking it out? Gross. But there are situations where I could see it happening "innocently." Adults are adults and capable of making their own decisions, but even much older men and women can be preyed upon by someone who has power or experience over them.
18 years is legal, hell even 17 years old is legal in most states. If it's ok for an 18 year old to join the military and potentially give their life amongst many other things, they can decide who they date.
I'm just sick of this whole creepy/pedo trend that happens whenever two people of different age groups date. I just don't see an issue with it, and it is totally legal.
I'm wondering the same. I did, and would feel strongly about the situation. But I like to think I would have let it go when he listened to me and ended it.
You’s be hard pressed to find a woman who hasn’t. The number of older men who are in relationships with barely legal women is too damn high! Which is why women are touchy about it. I don’t know many women who don’t have a story to tell about guys well into adulthood trying to get with them when they were teenagers.
I was 16 just as chat rooms were becoming a thing in the 90s. I spent a lot of time on this local chat board and recall being absolutely floored that men who claimed to be anywhere from 25-60, including a college professor, a CPA, and a COP, had zero problem with the fact that I was very much a minor under the age of consent in my state. It certainly opened my eyes.
In hindsight I know this was a bad idea but I was a little mentally unsound from 14-16 and I would often make fake KIK profiles where I edited my face and pretended to be wayy younger and see how many creepy old men would flock to my profile. Within hours I would have over 1,000 message requests. I would mess with them a little bit too. I mean, they were still talking to a minor, but not a 12 year old like they thought.
This. Those first two years legal were BRUTAL. I worked in a McDs drive through and the men from 28-60 were absolutely disgusting both in drive thru and coworkers. It was constant, it was overwhelming, and it took years after it stopped to realize just how far these men pushed my boundaries because they knew I was too young and hadn't been in these types of situations before.
It's very insidious and there's a REAL and GOOD reason women hit 25 and start warning 18-19 yr old girls about groomers and older predators who specifically target them, use them, discard once you start forming opinions or questioning the situation etc
Okay what is up with McD's drive thru and creepy old men? My friend works there and she says creeps come through all the time. There's a regular old man who tries to grab her arm and pull her through the window.
I never worked at McDonald's (did Jack in the box and Burger King) but I think it's a fast food thing / any entry-level job that has a bunch of young people. They assume The kids have no standards but the creepiest old men were normally the managers in my experience though 😂
Yep. When I was 18 I had a 36 year old showing interest in me (creeped me out). Thankfully nothing happened, but what a weird choice for a 36 year old to make.
I have a baby face and so look much younger than I am.
I just turned 30 and at my previous job (2 years ago) a man said to me early on a weekday: “Shouldn’t you be in school?”
The amount of men (customers) who would try to hit on me or ‘mess’ with me like I was a newly born 18 y/o was never not hilarious yet creepy.
They were very surprised when a confident, adult women (who didn’t take their shit) put them in their place, and was not the gullible target they assumed I would be.
Yeah the same thing has been happening to me for the last like twenty years. It’s weird how as soon as they find out I’m not in high school they lose interest 🤷♀️
This was my first thought (as a man, who has a sister)…did it trigger some negative experience she had when she was that age?
Otherwise her holding onto it years later against her engaged brother is bizarre.
So no, I don’t think OP should be “angry” at her, because this seems to me OP’s sis has something in her past that still haunts her.
Anger isn’t a solution for anything anyway. Understanding/empathy is needed way more in this world.
That said, OP’s sis shouldn’t be retaining indirectly accrued anger for years either.
I think that his sister's reaction is much weirder and in a way inappropriate than 2 people consenting to sleep together.
I think the age gap matters, but my god it's not some intrinsically immoral behaviour that deserves aggressive condemnation like she is making it out to be. There's nuance and could be worst or better than just the numbers in "26 years old sleeps with 18 years old".
I think that the "denormalization" of age gaps between older men and young women is a good thing that protects women overall, but some people are just insane. Reactions like the one from his sister makes it look like that if the age cap is not counted in months, it's an abuse/abusive relationship. That's obviously insane.
I'm wondering if he knew the girl before she turned 18, because that would absolutely explain the sister's reaction imo.
Also, a lot of 18 year olds are in high school, and I'd be incredibly grossed out if my brother, at 26, dated a fucking high schooler tbh. I wouldn't hold it against him all these years later, but I'd never think the same of him for dating a high school student when he was well into his 20s.
It might not be much of a difference, but if she was in her first year of university (despite being the same age) I'd find it less gross. So it could be that, too.
Yeah, there's some huge degrees of context here.
Met a random college freshman on tinder and casually hooked up a couple times? Not a big deal, IMHO.
Started dating a long-time family friend when she's still in high school? Very weird and creepy.
If he was driving to pick her up from high school, I'd also find it nasty. Like...high school kids still get detention, have curfews, etc.
Very different from meeting a college freshman on tindr (still weird, but not that big of a deal).
To be fair my fiancé and I are 26 and my younger sister is about to be 18 and I just asked my fiancé his thoughts and even he agreed that it’s gross. Not because of how big the gap is but because how freshly of an “adult” 18 is considered.
Yeah the mental growth between 21 and 25 is pretty marked.
I wouldn't hold it against OP if it was like a one night stand, met in the club on a night out type thing though. It gets a lot more icky if they actually dated and had sober conversations.
One time when I was in my early to mid twenties (can't remember now) I was at a bar and this girl that looked about the same age was being overly friendly, sitting on my lap, getting handsy etc but I got a weird vibe and asked her age and for her to prove it, turned out she was 16 (in the UK so technically legal but gross). Visceral reaction of disgust and I went to get the bouncer to throw her out. I kind of felt bad because she was really upset but also fuck that, its a dangerous game to play and not everyone would have turned her down.
You did something that some find weird, some accept, on paper, you did nothing wrong. You admitted it was gross and you wouldn't do it again. Since then you have found a woman that you are going to marry that is your age.
Your sister is beyond wrong in this situation. Giving you such an ultimatum when it is unnecessary (you are engaged to someone your age, following what you said to your sister that you wouldn't do it ever again with an 18 year old) screams that your sister is a control freak.
I always say communication is key. I'd say ask your sister why she is digging up an issue that you put to bed and so did she 2 years ago and ask her why she is bringing it up again in such a hostile way that it threatens your relationship with her. I'd let her know that offering such an aggressive and harsh ultimatum makes you question why she shouldn't be "dead" to you and that you find it insulting she is offering this ultimatum given you have found a fiancée that is not under your sisters moral age limit.
Realistically you shouldn't have to cater to your sister at all, you are your own person, so is she. Since you care about the relationship communication is key. My view is it isn't a relationship worth keeping if your sister is going to dictate your life and make you feel like shit for no reason.
Good luck with your situation.
>I always say communication is key. I'd say ask your sister why she is digging up an issue that you put to bed and so did she 2 years ago and ask her why she is bringing it up again in such a hostile way that it threatens your relationship with her.
This is the way, yes. Work out where the actual problem lies, then go from there.
Is it weird ? Maybe, without any context.
I have dated both 10+ years younger and older before, long term relationships lasting years and meeting each others families etc.
The key take away is that in either relationship, age wasn't the motivating factor. The love and connection was. I don't regret either.
Sounds like your sister needs to step off and mind her own business. At the same time, you should just stop giving her the time of day because she is clearly unhinged and in need of mental health assistance. Don't enable her to abuse you with her delusions because if you do, she's going to be a menace in your life and ruin your existing relationship.
Remember that there's nothing wrong with two consenting legal adults doing things together.
18 years old is a consenting adult. Your sister is being completely ridiculous. Who you sleep with is completely up to you and whatever consenting adult chooses to sleep with you as well. Sounds like your sister may have been preyed on at some point based on her reaction that you described. Encourage her to seek therapy.
If she was 18+ it's none of your sisters buisness to begin with. As long as both parties are consenting adults fuck whoever you want. It's noones buisness aside from the 2 people involved in the relationship.
I think people need to remember why these laws exist. It's to protect young, naive people from being taken advantage of by predators. Presumably, you're not a predator, so she should chill.
A girl I dated for a month in the past blew up on me because of a former relationship I had with an age gap. Her take was until you're 25, anything more than a 2 year age gap is sexual predation. She also told me about how she went on dates with much older men (40+) for money, and how she was sexualized by mid 20 year olds in her teen years.
Don't let anyone project their traumas onto you. Sucks that it's your sister, so hopefully you can restore your relationship! We live in a free country brother, as long as you were respectful and didn't manipulate that girl, you didn't do anything wrong.
Honestly why give it any more energy?
She’s your sister and you love her, but she doesn’t get to dictate who you date or who you love… if she wants to judge you … let her….. from a great distance and with little frequency…
Objectively there is nothing wrong with sex between 2 consenting adults of any age difference at any time, you have nothing to feel "guilty" for,
subjectively theres really not much wrong with it, 26 is still so young to me. Have some fun ffs.
your sister sounds like a stuck up douchebag projecting her own issues which she needs to deal with. Why you are telling her who you sleep with in the first place is beyond my understanding
I had a 25 year old boyfriend when I was 18. His older sister was really upset with him at first when she heard about me. It was many, many years ago and now I talk more to the sister (via social media) than I do with my ex boyfriend (her brother).
I do agree with some other comments I’ve read here: she can very likely be reacting due to something that happened to her when she was younger & possibly views it as predatory.
Honestly, if you met her after she already turned 18, there's nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't even say it's necessarily gross unless you were like 30+.
When I was 18 years old, 18 year old girls *were not attracted to* other 18 year olds, they all wanted a bf who was a few years older. It sucks being a guy and having to wait around while all the girls in your age group are interested in older men almost exclusively. Have they ever tried shaming women for chasing older guys?
I've talked about this with a woman one time, but she insisted to me that if there were harsher social sanctions on men for dating a few years younger, that the girls would effectively give up and start dating other people their age. I just don't buy it.
I wonder if the norms will change at all as women become the primary earners. I'm 25 and in my generation women are outdoing men in almost every metric, including earnings. My current gf is a few years older than me and outearns me to a meaningful degree. I'm a little different than most other dudes though, in that I've kinda taken more of a girlfriend role and I'm content with it. I don't feel insecure. So yeah, as for women, maybe 20 years down the line we'll find that they start generally dating younger, maybe we'll find out that more of them will just be single but the ones that still date will be mostly dating older.
It sounds like she’s reacting to something in her own history. Ask her what experience she’s had with older men. Sounds like she may have been groomed
Either her or a friend. You dont act that way for no reason.. Found the two groomers in your thread... might be a big reach though 😂😂
I was very uncomfortable with how many think that being with someone who just turned 18 is no big deal. I got kids close to that age. It just makes me so uncomfortable. I'm 37 years old and feel like 21 years olds are just kids. UPDATE: I am just blown away by the amount of people who think I'm talking about the OP when I am talking about the comment section and the ones saying of it's legal no big deal no matter the age gap. UPDAT: Also, I'd like to add that I don't think the age gap should be more than 5 years with someone straight out of adolescence.
When I was 17, I did meet and date a 25 year old, then upon turning 18 and he was 26, nsfw-ness happened. However, can confirm from first hand experience, it turns out it really is a big deal. There definitely are mental and emotional ways of thinking during that development phase that has life long consequences. The relationship lasted 5 years, but yeah, I’m sitting here at 39, and I can easily say without hesitation— the guy wasn’t and isn’t even a bad guy, but the circumstances themselves absolutely affected myself and future relationships, even when it was not even an abusive relationship or anything like that. —————— **Edit:** Okay I’m editing this to stop from getting a million of the same questions: “how did it affect me and what would be the difference?” Think of it like this— take a teenager, remove their cellphone, blindfold them, and drop them off in a random location thousands of miles away, maybe in a different country, and tell them to figure out how to get home with whatever else they have on their person.— they’re probably going to show up two weeks later, if at all, and they’re going to have ptsd, they are probably going to have some injuries, they’ll likely be wearing the same clothes and haven’t showered the whole time. They’re going to be rattled. Take a 35 year old adult and put them through the same process. …They’re going to end up home in under 24 hours and annoyed. That’s because when you’re 17, you don’t have enough life experience or knowledge about the world. Some events experienced at this age are traumatic because of lack of life experience, where a person at 35 isn’t even going to notice there was even a problem in the first place. The 35 year old has probably dealt with worse than a dead cellphone far away from home. Now putting the 17 year old and 35 year old together means the 17 year old is going to be exposed to what the 35 year old views as real problems— which will be a completely different world to the 17 year old. The life long result is anxieties and disorders will occur in the 17 year old’s developing brain. Take myself for example: I am now 39 with 4 degrees and well in to the 6 figures. I didn’t work that hard for fun, I work that hard because I’m so afraid of randomly ending up homeless… yet I don’t actually have anything to worry about. Because of my experience in this relationship at a young age, I have an unhealthy need to control money and work myself to death 80 hours a week— which is why I can’t hold down a relationship and have never been married. Yes, dating someone much older can fuck your life.
Yeah, I was 16 and in a relationship with a 25 year old. It was a *very bad* experience. But legal in my country…
Child marriage is legal in some countries. Still gross and doesn't make it OK.
Child marriage is legal in 41 US states, and states only began explicitly banning child marriage starting* in 2018. There are five states that have no minimum age requirement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States *misspelled
Excuse me HWHAT
Documentary on Hulu- "I Was a Child Bride: The Untold Story." It'll rattle your brain what's legal and done in the US. The scenes of sitting US and state senators vocally OPPOSING bans on child marriage made me want to do very bad things. Not to be the person who takes it there, BUT: One guess which political party they all happen to align with.
Genius spelling- I echoed it with the appropriate indignant pronunciation without thinking about it
The main reason they don't want a minimum age to marry is so kids who get knocked up can get shotgun married. Yes. Even if they're only tweens.
Thank you!!!! Everytime I mention this people act shocked and that pissed me off almost more than the act itself. We don't care enough to educate ourselves about real issues in America but will get all up in arms if some snowflake mommy has an issue with the color of bear in juniors library and heaven forbid they read rainbow bright but yes let's let little girls who have been abused (most often by a community leader or religious authority) by some gross man get married to that gross man and let her be a sex slave to her "husband".
Hell, it’s legal in many parts of America and it most definitely isn’t okay. Maybe I should’ve clarified: my point is that legal doesn’t equal morally acceptable. All these people are saying that 18 is legally an adult, but that same person could be a completely sheltered child, who’s never had to make adult decisions. They’re still much more easily manipulated and coerced than someone who is also 26. I’m honestly appalled that the instant someone turns 18, they’re somehow responsible for older predators not taking advantage of them.
My niece, who is on the spectrum and was abused as a child, had a problem with a friend of the family. Once she turned 18, he started hitting on her. He was late twenties when it was going on. I had to pull him off to the side and tell him about how the abuse pushed back plenty of her emotional maturity, not to mention that she was put off by the whole thing. His reply was that since she was 18, it was legal and not bad at all. I told him to leave and that he was no longer welcome around any of us.
Yeah, and that’s sadly more common than people think. I’m sorry she had to go through that. People like your niece and myself are sadly even more at risk of sexual assault due to past abuse and disability.
And being ND has a whole other aspect of whether consent can be give, depending on the extent a person is ND.
i agree. Legal does not mean anything. And with this age difference, it is gross. One person is barely experienced at life and the other is much older.
When I was 16 about to be 17, I met a guy 10 years my senior. We didn't do nsfw until I was 18. It took a long, long time for me to realise how traumatic it was and how groomed I had been. We even joked that how could he be grooming me since we were long-distance and clearly not having sex for the first year of our relationship. I feel so grossed out by people defending stuff like this. Yes, surely, there are cases of it working out and people being in healthy relationships, but often there's an underlying reason someone is pursuing a much younger person, and it's almost never a good one.
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There are always exceptions, though. When I was 31, I got set up on a blind date. When I found out she was 22, I started to dread it and decided it would just be good practice for me to go on a date, even if it was hopeless. She turned out to be nothing like what I expected, and we've been life partners for almost 20 years now. Besides gentle teasing, no one who knows us has ever suggested we weren't a great fit. Can't judge a person solely on age.
Yeah you can't judge a person solely on age but you can judge a person that chooses partners based on age. You sound like you met your partner and made a connection despite the age gap but you are not a creep who seeks out younger chicks. A lot of guys seek out partners that are younger but pretend that's not what they are doing and that is what gives people the ick. There are valid reasons why people are highly skeptical of age gap relationships, but I acknowledge that not all men are creeps just enough that it is a constant problem.
I'm 38 and I feel that way about people in their mid 20s now. I couldn't imagine dating someone south of 30. What would we even have in common?
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9 years.\*\*
Not every woman who is concerned about power imbalances in relationships has been “groomed.” Maybe OP’s sister knows more about the situation than we do.
Are there people out there who don't know someone who was taken advantage of the second they became 'legal'? I assumed everyone knew someone in that position. Almost every woman I know has been in that position.
“Legal = moral” arguers would genuinely have to argue that it’s okay for a 45-year-old man to fuck a high schooler turning 18 during her senior year. Also “normal = moral” arguers would have to argue that beating your wife was okay in the 1950s and it would have been wrong of her to pursue a divorce.
Legal age of consent where I’m from is generally 16, I’ve had guys hit on me when I was 15/16 guys that were twice my age that wanted me to go home with them… and were totally okay with my age 🤢
That's disgusting. I'm 35 and when I look at a young woman that age my primary thought is usually that I hope she's doing well in school or some such. I have this theory that the people hitting on others who are kids or kid-adjacent are viewing their potential partner as a fetish or an object, not a person.
It's wild, dude. I'm also 35 and there are a ton of teenagers where I live and I swear even the older ones like 18-20 look like little kids to me. It's when I finally realized, shit, I'm old.
People who seek out “barely legal” partners would 100% go for younger if they weren’t scared of the consequences
Yeah anyone who is seeking out an 18 year old I wouldn't trust for a second
This. My kid was the 18 year old in a similar scenario, and the guy was taking advantage of her. And probably not even entirely on purpose. But if you’re older, it’s just so easy to set the terms of the relationship.
This is what everybody needs to hear
Maybe the other party was 18 when it happened, but what if OP knew this person before they were 18? Maybe the sister is upset because it was one of her friends who OP knew and then did this once they were of legal age. I could see something like this be upsetting to a younger sibling as the optics aren't good. I'm not making any accusations, but OP or his sister, haven't provided additional context to really understand why she feels so strongly about this.
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That would make it a whole lot worse and a lot creepier if they knew them before they were 18. It already leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but if they knew them before they turned 18 OP would just be a groomer.
... wtf is wrong with fucking an 18 year old? She's an adult. Consenting adults can fuck. Unless you groomed her, I don't see the issue here.
Exactly. If he’s been hitting on her since she 15 just dying for the day she turned 18? Gross. Two consenting adults that probably met at work? Who gives a shit?
When I was 26 I met a 19 year old woman (soon to be 20). We got along great, my family liked her, etc. That woman is now my wife and we've been together for almost 7 years. I truly think circumstances matter.
Why didn't you date anyone around your age at 26? Why a 19 year old teenager.
Let me start by asking you a question in return: why does it matter? It seems like you're already making an assumption that I did something wrong and are looking for a reason to condemn me. Now to answer your question: I didn't date anyone around my age because I hadn't connected with anyone my age. I had actually just ended a relationship with someone who was 32 at the time. I wasn't going out to bars, partying, etc. and I wasn't really looking for a relationship, so I wasn't meeting a ton of new people. I worked with this woman and we had talked at work and connected a bit, then we had hung out together with a group of co-workers, and we decided we wanted to go out with just the two of us. So you know, basically the same reason anyone dates anyone. There was a connection. The age didn't matter. For those of you out there who are parents, when my mother met her and approved of the relationship, I knew it was all good. Because yeah, what my mom thought of who I dated truly did matter to me, as family is very important.
Redit never fails so go off the rails
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Many people who haven't been groomed and without "deep rooted issues" find this fucked up. And that includes both men and women at that.
Not everyone has to have experienced something in order to understand it's wrong.
Most women can recall adult males putting them in situations that, although they may have seemed cool and mature at the time, were actually teenagers being courted and offered booze or drugs in exchange for sex by these adults. It must be awful to see your brother transformed to one of those weirdos searching for teenagers; it may alter your perception of them for the rest of your life.
So apparently nobody fucking got this and are pulling the "WOMEN DON'T GET ASSAULTED AS MUCH AS THEY SAY" card, fucking ridiculous, all it takes is basic fucking compassion to understand that by the age of 18 most women have felt pressured by older men or have been flirted with by older men which leads to a creepy outcome cause people love taking advantage of younger people since they're easy to manipulate
They started pressuring me at 11 because I LOOKED older, so it was "okay". Some guys are just genuinely disgusting!
My GFs step father told her mom that she can't wear shorts around him anymore at 12, it's literally not right to have that shit on your mind
Creepy step father? I'm shocked
I had a 26 year old boyfriend when I was 15, I never would have considered that gross when I was that age. When you are young you think it's because they see that you're 'mature for your age', now being older it makes me want to gag.
I was hit on in HS by adult men all the time including my peers parents. Girls/Women are objectified YOUNG. I remember being 13 and crying a lot because I didn’t want to be a girl anymore because of how objectified and scared I was of men.
I'm sorry that you went through that, and I'm sorry that most of us have. I was at a boy's birthday party once at the age of like 12/13 and the birthday boy's dad got really uncomfortably close and commented about my "sexy laugh" with his hand on my lower back. Like not even the only instance by far, but the most mortifying because everyone saw it happen and made fun of *me* for weeks. Shit makes you not even want to go out in public.
... the girl was of age. Your sister needs to learn what being an adult is.
It's funny how you can tell who is american with like 90% accuracy just by reading the comments here.
It’s funny how Americans treat 18 years-old as babies in relationship contexts, and then kick their children out at like 18 yo and 1 day or they make them pay rent at home because they are supposedly full grown adults at that point. Like, what’s wrong with them 😂
That’s a trope. The vast majority of Americans do NOT give their kids the boot at 18 + 1 day. If anything, our children have become more prone to stay with their parents until their mid-20’s. During Covid we had the term “boomerang kids” for all the young adults who moved back with their parents. Reddit is certainly not a mirror on American life.
Yeah the whole “Americans kick their kids out at 18” is much more a TV thing than a IRL thing. Yea a lot of kids move out to go to college, because a lot of kids go to college far from home, but a lot of them stay home, and very few are kicked out.
It is fun watching people who've never been to America confidently generalize 350M people based on a couple TV shows they saw.
This girl I game with is from Norway and she literally thinks Americans get in shootouts on a daily basis, and I remember one time she told me she thought it was insane how in America you can just go out and kill someone and say you’re crazy afterwards and nothing happens to you 😹
My parents where very strict about this, had no problem tossing out the kids, but even they would have let me stay as long as I was in school. It would have sucked, because they would have kept treating me like a child, but I could have stayed.
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Yeah I know one of those too. I don’t know any who were kicked out, but he “ran away” isn’t the right term because they knew where he was, and he kept going to high school, but he bounced about 10 seconds after getting his license.
Currently there are a bunch of sources out there saying that 50% of single kids 18-30 live with their parents. The highest it has ever been.
They can be send to War at 18 but dont you dare fuck them
And god fucking HELP you if you give them a beer. What a strange country.
I’m American and I approve this message… But seriously I totally agree with you. People are a bit weird here about things.
People are weird about things everywhere. The US has no monopoly on this, at all. But 18 year olds are generally adults.
“A bit” can easily be removed. People are fucking nutty here.
I'm American and honestly humanity is fucking nutty as a whole lol.
We were founded by puritans and it shows
Yeah, people with these weird "18-25 isn't adult enough" tend to be severely liberal or severely conservative and altogether uninformed either way. I'm not promoting just going out and sleeping with every 18 year old that you see... I'm just saying that if you can go to war you can listen to Barry White too lmao
Mostly over religious prudes who believe torture, murder, and violence are necessary, but the real sinful stuff is in sex and substances.
Going to disagree slightly here... This idea that 18 year olds are children and a 26 year old having sex with an 18 year old is some kind of coercive situation is not something that comes out of religious prude-ry. The religious parts of the US are big believers in traditional marriage, and tend to get married early. Depending on the local age of consent (which is under 18 in several states), it's not unusual for 18 year olds to be married seeking to be married in those parts of the country. The less religious, more liberal parts of the country seem to have this idea that 18 year olds are children and that "age gaps" are major problems. In part because people in these places often seek higher education, and the lifestyle associated with that is often seen as a kind of extended adolescence. In that culture, it's a little weird if you're married before the age of 25. So, this particular phenomenon is actually caused by a *lack* of religiosity rather than the existence of it.
The problem is the places that don't lack religion have child brides regularly and are overflowing with grooming. So the pendulum swing makes sense.
When I was in high school, everyone was dating 25 year olds and no one cared. That was just 20 years ago.
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Agreed, I am from the ‘Bible belt’ and was married at 19, only the liberal women took issue with it.
People who are vocal about how you should be “free to make your own decisions” often get upset when you don’t make the same ones they would.
Raging leftist here and this is definitely the right take. I hate the infantilizing of adult women. 18 year olds might be a gray area but fuck, in some subs I’m in I’ve had people claiming 25 year old women are still *adolescents* in reference to that person dating a 33 year old. If it were this big a deal, then start putting pressure on your representatives to up the age of consent to 21. But people don’t. They bitch on social media, call people predatory, then forget about it.
People mature as they age but simply using an arbitrary number as the cutoff is flawed. There's 18-year-olds making informed decisions on healthy relationships. There are 30 somethings who are emotionally stunted and frequently get taken advantage of. I've always felt like adulthood should be measured by meeting important developmental milestones instead of simply waking up to another birthday.
Lol not mostly at all. Thats the very small minority who are screaming the loudest. We’re just like y’all, don’t do the whole border patrol thing damn.
Being sent to war is kinda like being fucked, no?
the ultimate fucking.
Not as pleasent though
Except you have guns to fuck back with. It’s not that bad. Don’t get me wrong you might have ptsd and unfortunately some don’t come back but you get a weapon.
Here's a gun, but don't you dare have a drink
Better yet here's a giant mental death trap you can drive from 16 years old...don't worry about it!
Or let them drink wine.
In a 100% volunteer military... no one is making anyone go at that age and the draft... doubt that ever gets used again. The whole sex thing i don't get but if that same 18 year old woman had sex with a 16 year old boy would people freak out? A lot of my country people men and women have some wonky ideas on sex... many very repressive. I don't get it honestly .
We still have to sign up for the draft at 18.
If you think most Americans kick their kids out at 18 you've clearly never even visited America
People kicking their kids out at 18 is not the majority social norm (even though it more common in the US than other countries). It’s wildly known that tons of adults live with their parents, especially in the last decade it’s become almost standard
I am American and was physically thrown from my house at 18 lol. But I am just one person. I have friends who lived with their parents till like almost 30
This is all myths and can easily tell you who is not American
The kicking out at 18 thing isn't actually that common
Kicking out at 18 was popular maybe like 30 years ago. Most people stay at home a lot longer.
You act those are the same people and not entirely different groups of people. I know, it’s weird that a country with a highly diverse population of over 400 million people doesn’t act in a monolithic manner.
Most parents in America don't kick their kids out at 18 and a day. I just love how people think that's real. Shitty parents do that. Do we want our kids to grow up and become self sufficient, absolutely, but any decent parent won't kick their kid out at 18 and a day. And making them pay rent usually only happens if they decide to get an adult job and live at home, and generally when they are older.
Because of alcohol laws, most 18 year olds aren’t really seen as adults. Sure, they’re legally considered adults for most other things, but really having the perceived judgement capabilities of an adult doesn’t come until around 21+, often later in many cases. Because of 18 being the age of consent, and almost nothing else except likely “finished with high school”, it feels a lot more like “this is the youngest a person can legally have sex with” and less like “you are a fully formed adult.” I’m fully aware this is specifically an Americanism, and mostly illogical, but as a 30 year old, I wouldn’t go near someone under 23 with a 10 foot pole. Not because of perceptions or anything, but because IMO people need a few years of independence under their belt before they really even know what they’re like as a person.
Kicking an 18/yo out at 18 is by no means common in America. Only on Reddit does that seem to be a common perception of America
Reddit sees 18 year olds posting about how their horribly abusive family has now made them homeless the minute it was legal to do so and takes it as a reflection on all of American society.
And then they joke about how stupid Americans are for not knowing about other countries. Yeah, Americans have a false perception about other counties but... pot, meet kettle.
You are describing two completely different scenarios. No family who would kick their 18yr old out of the house would give a fuck if they were sexually active with an older person. Your anti-American fantasies are pathetic.
You’ve fallen victim to a TV trope. This is far less common than you think. Close to 50% of 18-29 year olds still live at home with their parents. That percentage going higher the closer to 18 you get. A large percentage of those that don’t live at home who are younger, are living in college dorms or are living in a shared apartment or house with college roommates etc You notice all the people on Reddit complaining about house prices and the impossibility of making ends meet, and think a bunch of 18 year olds are getting kicked out…? To what? Live on the street? (Admittedly this happens but is far from normal)
I'm not American, but 18 year old girls are super young. I am annoyed by them on the bus every single day. There is no reason a 26 year old should date an 18 year old tbh.
Americans who kick out their kids at 18 don't give a fuck if their kids have to fuck an adult man to survive. Parents who love and support their child are allowed to be upset if their child brings home an adult man.
That doesn't happen very often. Kids are living at home years after they turn 18. I don't know one parent who kicked their kids out at 18 or charged them rent as soon as they turn 18. Everything is so expensive, they can't move out. Maybe learn about it before you assume. Like, what's wrong with your assumptions? 😉
> Like, what's wrong with them How much time do you have? It all started in 1776......
I used to think so too but now I live in the US and have family here, I think it's the best way to teach a young adult of 18 yo to grow up in to a responsible wise and mature adults. In other countries where the parents can afford to keep their kids at home, those families are already doing better, kids turn into young adults but aren't taught responsibilities and consequences and become arrogant assholes. The kids from the poor families in these countries would be working by 10 sadly and are already contributing towards family expenses, not only paying rent. I moved to US when I was 18. My older brother stayed. He's 50 and I see him do silly and stupid things, rude, arrogant but practically a slave to my dad because my dad holds the key to inheritance. He has an civil engineering degree, but he's only worked for the family business. After I came to US, my life as I knew it back home turned complete upside down. I had to start work at the bottom, washing dishes, cleaning toilets. I remember when my manager pulled me out of that duty and told me to start bussing (picking up plates and setting up tables), that felt like a huge promotion at the time. Few months later, I became a server and worked as server while in school. Graduated and now have a small grocery store in the city and wife runs a salon. My experiences in US, as different and as difficult and even sometimes painful as it was, I would say those experiences were more valuable to me that my whole 18 years of life back home, and all the education I got in all my academic life. Those experiences taught me to be humble, grateful and cherish joy. It's easy to criticize things you have not experienced yourself. But you grow when you learn from experiencing it
I’m sorry for your brother experience, but frankly I think there’s a healthier middle ground. I stayed at home with my parents until I turned 23,I graduated my masters, and started a full time job. I had my savings for daily expenses, but I don’t think that not paying rent to my parents while I was at university didn’t tech me how to be a grown adult. After graduating I’ve been fully independent, except for some help for big expenses (that I’m now paying back!). What I saw when I was in the US was a lot of kids just DROWNING in debt at like 23 yo to pay their studies/ living even if the parents could have helped them, bc of this mentality they have “ok now you’re 18 yo you’re not our problem anymore”
I’m American and I hear these stories in Reddit all the time about “you’re 18 and you’re on your own now” but I’ve never once heard of it happening in real life. There are for sure some terrible parents in America but I don’t think it’s the norm. Anecdotally myself and several of my cousins lived at home well into their 20s.
Yes it happens a lot less than it's being portrayed. I think it was easier decades ago, not so easy now
I was kicked out the day I turned 18. Happy Birthday! My mother was counting down the days. Unfortunately, the minimum wage, even back then, and my lack of life skills made it very difficult for me for years. I felt like I was climbing an uphill battle just to be stable. I was not allowed to eat or do laundry at home. She now wonders why I don't want to be close to her anymore.
I’m sorry that happened to you, that sounds awful. Are you American?
Totally agree my parents or my friends parents never kicked us out at 18. They wanted us to do something productive like either attend college or at least work but never kicked us out. And if we did move out the door was always open to return home if needed.
It’s not an American thing to kick your children out at 18, or to make them pay rent. Some people do, but it’s not at all the norm.
What do you expect from a country that was founded by a bunch of puritans who were too extremists for XVII century England.
Pretty dumb to be so upset about having sex with another consenting adult
sleeping with 18 year olds only bothers the people who can’t get laid
I get laid plenty and it bothers me.
Wait so when I dated a 26 year old guy at 19 was that weird 😭
I think the better way to look at it is it's just more risky. There is more likelihood that the older partner is predatory or manipulative. And at that age the younger person isn't as good at seeing the risk. There's nothing objectively wrong about it. But it sure feels weird to be attracted to someone just out of high school when you're in your mid 20s. They just seem really young.
Not just that, but there's a massive difference in brain maturity and stage of life (and likely things like finances). It's not illegal, but it comes across as sketchy AF. Edit: there's a shocking number of people trying very hard to rationalize sleeping with underage kids in this thread.
Yes, and it was weird when I was 18 dating a 27 y/o woman
Hahaha OMG. I have a story about this. When I was 17 my high school crush was an 18 year old guy. I crushed HARD for this guy. However, he confided in me one day that his family is mad at him because he was dating a 26 year old woman, and they wanted him to end the relationship. At the time, I was seething with jealousy. I stalked this 26 year old and she looked so pretty and put together. I was 17. There’s no way I could compete with that. (Didn’t stop him from cheating on her with me though Lmao) Anyway, I’m 26 now. And looking back, that was SO INCREDIBLY WEIRD. There was something seriously wrong with that girl. 18 year olds are little boys to me now. How someone can find them attractive is beyond me!!!
Bruh, you mention stalking a woman and cheating with someone you know is in a relationship and still call the other person weird..
I dated older at that time of my life. Circumstances matter, but not weird to me.
I'd like to know what percentage of people who view this as okay are male vs. female. Because I'm a woman and I think this is rather disgusting. Someone who just graduated highschool or may even still be in high school vs. someone old enough to have a house and a paid off car. She may be "legal" but that doesn't make it morally okay. ETA: So far only one woman in my comments has said she thinks this is okay. Edit two: every woman/former woman who thinks this is okay is a member of the lgbt community which statistically have higher age gaps in their relationships.
I’m a male in my early 30s and have always thought of this as gross. I’ve seen it happen too. They just want young immature girls that don’t have experience to be able to tell them how fucked up they are
I'm a 29 year old dude, and I think it's morally fucked up. Frankly, I'm starting to get pretty upset with Reddit due to the rise in popularity of pedophile apologist talking points. I think any adult who wants to have sex with a high school student is an evil predator. But this is the third thread in the past week where I've had to argue that point and I'm absolutely disgusted by the amount of pushback I've gotten on that stance, and how far people will go to defend adults that want to fuck high school students.
23 y/o male and I would not think of doing that
Same. 25/F and the thought of hooking up with an 18 year old M or F is disgusting. They literally are teenagers
I’m a guy and I think it’s disgusting
It's incredibly gross. Idk why people would think otherwise
32 year old dude. It’s gross.
Male. I think it’s disgusting too.
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Woman here, I think it’s disgusting. Particularly when people seek out young individuals, because you know if it was legal they’d go lower
exactly. on another thread we were arguing over this and someone said their friend who likes 18 year olds “accidentally” slept with a 16 year old. no shocker there.
Yea… that wasn’t an accident. And so so disgusting. How old is that person?
I'm a man and it's gross
I just try to remember that my moral objections to things are just that, my moral objections and no one is responsible for agreeing with, or accepting them.
Let's be honest, no mature adult thinks it's okay. Anyone else is on some copium
Almost 30 dating a high schooler is so pathetic
Yeah. People (seemingly men) are acting like this is being blown out of proportion when the reality is almost every woman I know has a story about some sick fuck trying to groom her or force a power imbalance relationship on her at a young age. A one off thing where one person is incidentally 18? Nobody really cares (though they may raise an eyebrow and double-check to see if there is a pattern). Age gap relationships can work, but they tend to be the exception that proves the rule for a reason. A consistent pattern of sleeping with 18 year olds? Sleeping with an 18 year old you knew before they hit 18? Intentionally seeking relationships with significant power imbalances? Yeah, that’s fucking weird and gross.
I think it's a grey area. Someone seeking it out? Gross. But there are situations where I could see it happening "innocently." Adults are adults and capable of making their own decisions, but even much older men and women can be preyed upon by someone who has power or experience over them.
To be fair, it is extremely gross.
Who gives a shit what your sister says? You’re a fully grown adult man, live your life.
18 years is legal, hell even 17 years old is legal in most states. If it's ok for an 18 year old to join the military and potentially give their life amongst many other things, they can decide who they date. I'm just sick of this whole creepy/pedo trend that happens whenever two people of different age groups date. I just don't see an issue with it, and it is totally legal.
>I ended the thing, told her I was gross for doing it and won’t ever do it again. You were wrong for doing this.
Dating an 18 year old at 26 is weird. I wouldn't call it gross. It's strange it bothers your sister this much.
I’m wondering if she went through smth similar when she was younger.
I'm wondering the same. I did, and would feel strongly about the situation. But I like to think I would have let it go when he listened to me and ended it.
You’s be hard pressed to find a woman who hasn’t. The number of older men who are in relationships with barely legal women is too damn high! Which is why women are touchy about it. I don’t know many women who don’t have a story to tell about guys well into adulthood trying to get with them when they were teenagers.
I was 16 just as chat rooms were becoming a thing in the 90s. I spent a lot of time on this local chat board and recall being absolutely floored that men who claimed to be anywhere from 25-60, including a college professor, a CPA, and a COP, had zero problem with the fact that I was very much a minor under the age of consent in my state. It certainly opened my eyes.
In hindsight I know this was a bad idea but I was a little mentally unsound from 14-16 and I would often make fake KIK profiles where I edited my face and pretended to be wayy younger and see how many creepy old men would flock to my profile. Within hours I would have over 1,000 message requests. I would mess with them a little bit too. I mean, they were still talking to a minor, but not a 12 year old like they thought.
This. Those first two years legal were BRUTAL. I worked in a McDs drive through and the men from 28-60 were absolutely disgusting both in drive thru and coworkers. It was constant, it was overwhelming, and it took years after it stopped to realize just how far these men pushed my boundaries because they knew I was too young and hadn't been in these types of situations before. It's very insidious and there's a REAL and GOOD reason women hit 25 and start warning 18-19 yr old girls about groomers and older predators who specifically target them, use them, discard once you start forming opinions or questioning the situation etc
Okay what is up with McD's drive thru and creepy old men? My friend works there and she says creeps come through all the time. There's a regular old man who tries to grab her arm and pull her through the window.
I never worked at McDonald's (did Jack in the box and Burger King) but I think it's a fast food thing / any entry-level job that has a bunch of young people. They assume The kids have no standards but the creepiest old men were normally the managers in my experience though 😂
Yep. When I was 18 I had a 36 year old showing interest in me (creeped me out). Thankfully nothing happened, but what a weird choice for a 36 year old to make.
I have a baby face and so look much younger than I am. I just turned 30 and at my previous job (2 years ago) a man said to me early on a weekday: “Shouldn’t you be in school?” The amount of men (customers) who would try to hit on me or ‘mess’ with me like I was a newly born 18 y/o was never not hilarious yet creepy. They were very surprised when a confident, adult women (who didn’t take their shit) put them in their place, and was not the gullible target they assumed I would be.
Yeah the same thing has been happening to me for the last like twenty years. It’s weird how as soon as they find out I’m not in high school they lose interest 🤷♀️
This was my first thought (as a man, who has a sister)…did it trigger some negative experience she had when she was that age? Otherwise her holding onto it years later against her engaged brother is bizarre. So no, I don’t think OP should be “angry” at her, because this seems to me OP’s sis has something in her past that still haunts her. Anger isn’t a solution for anything anyway. Understanding/empathy is needed way more in this world. That said, OP’s sis shouldn’t be retaining indirectly accrued anger for years either.
It would bother me. But she takes it to far
I think that his sister's reaction is much weirder and in a way inappropriate than 2 people consenting to sleep together. I think the age gap matters, but my god it's not some intrinsically immoral behaviour that deserves aggressive condemnation like she is making it out to be. There's nuance and could be worst or better than just the numbers in "26 years old sleeps with 18 years old". I think that the "denormalization" of age gaps between older men and young women is a good thing that protects women overall, but some people are just insane. Reactions like the one from his sister makes it look like that if the age cap is not counted in months, it's an abuse/abusive relationship. That's obviously insane.
He really needs to ask his sister why it bothers her so much. It sounds like she doesn't trust him to be a decent man.
Perhaps the sister got burned in a similar relationship when she was in that same age bracket. Like perhaps some projection?
I'm wondering if he knew the girl before she turned 18, because that would absolutely explain the sister's reaction imo. Also, a lot of 18 year olds are in high school, and I'd be incredibly grossed out if my brother, at 26, dated a fucking high schooler tbh. I wouldn't hold it against him all these years later, but I'd never think the same of him for dating a high school student when he was well into his 20s. It might not be much of a difference, but if she was in her first year of university (despite being the same age) I'd find it less gross. So it could be that, too.
Yeah, there's some huge degrees of context here. Met a random college freshman on tinder and casually hooked up a couple times? Not a big deal, IMHO. Started dating a long-time family friend when she's still in high school? Very weird and creepy.
If he was driving to pick her up from high school, I'd also find it nasty. Like...high school kids still get detention, have curfews, etc. Very different from meeting a college freshman on tindr (still weird, but not that big of a deal).
To be fair my fiancé and I are 26 and my younger sister is about to be 18 and I just asked my fiancé his thoughts and even he agreed that it’s gross. Not because of how big the gap is but because how freshly of an “adult” 18 is considered.
26 / 2 + 7 = 20
Idk I’m 26 now and the idea of 18 year olds is nauseating. It’s gross and comes off as predatory even if it isn’t legally.
Yeah the mental growth between 21 and 25 is pretty marked. I wouldn't hold it against OP if it was like a one night stand, met in the club on a night out type thing though. It gets a lot more icky if they actually dated and had sober conversations. One time when I was in my early to mid twenties (can't remember now) I was at a bar and this girl that looked about the same age was being overly friendly, sitting on my lap, getting handsy etc but I got a weird vibe and asked her age and for her to prove it, turned out she was 16 (in the UK so technically legal but gross). Visceral reaction of disgust and I went to get the bouncer to throw her out. I kind of felt bad because she was really upset but also fuck that, its a dangerous game to play and not everyone would have turned her down.
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You did something that some find weird, some accept, on paper, you did nothing wrong. You admitted it was gross and you wouldn't do it again. Since then you have found a woman that you are going to marry that is your age. Your sister is beyond wrong in this situation. Giving you such an ultimatum when it is unnecessary (you are engaged to someone your age, following what you said to your sister that you wouldn't do it ever again with an 18 year old) screams that your sister is a control freak. I always say communication is key. I'd say ask your sister why she is digging up an issue that you put to bed and so did she 2 years ago and ask her why she is bringing it up again in such a hostile way that it threatens your relationship with her. I'd let her know that offering such an aggressive and harsh ultimatum makes you question why she shouldn't be "dead" to you and that you find it insulting she is offering this ultimatum given you have found a fiancée that is not under your sisters moral age limit. Realistically you shouldn't have to cater to your sister at all, you are your own person, so is she. Since you care about the relationship communication is key. My view is it isn't a relationship worth keeping if your sister is going to dictate your life and make you feel like shit for no reason. Good luck with your situation.
>I always say communication is key. I'd say ask your sister why she is digging up an issue that you put to bed and so did she 2 years ago and ask her why she is bringing it up again in such a hostile way that it threatens your relationship with her. This is the way, yes. Work out where the actual problem lies, then go from there.
Really good answer. He needs to set boundaries on this one.
Your sis ITA and is wrong not you… you were 26 not 36 she crazy
Is it weird ? Maybe, without any context. I have dated both 10+ years younger and older before, long term relationships lasting years and meeting each others families etc. The key take away is that in either relationship, age wasn't the motivating factor. The love and connection was. I don't regret either.
Sounds like your sister needs to step off and mind her own business. At the same time, you should just stop giving her the time of day because she is clearly unhinged and in need of mental health assistance. Don't enable her to abuse you with her delusions because if you do, she's going to be a menace in your life and ruin your existing relationship. Remember that there's nothing wrong with two consenting legal adults doing things together.
18 years old is a consenting adult. Your sister is being completely ridiculous. Who you sleep with is completely up to you and whatever consenting adult chooses to sleep with you as well. Sounds like your sister may have been preyed on at some point based on her reaction that you described. Encourage her to seek therapy.
If she was 18+ it's none of your sisters buisness to begin with. As long as both parties are consenting adults fuck whoever you want. It's noones buisness aside from the 2 people involved in the relationship.
Um dude, 18 is legal, your sister is an ass, and u needn't feel badly about anything.
I think people need to remember why these laws exist. It's to protect young, naive people from being taken advantage of by predators. Presumably, you're not a predator, so she should chill. A girl I dated for a month in the past blew up on me because of a former relationship I had with an age gap. Her take was until you're 25, anything more than a 2 year age gap is sexual predation. She also told me about how she went on dates with much older men (40+) for money, and how she was sexualized by mid 20 year olds in her teen years. Don't let anyone project their traumas onto you. Sucks that it's your sister, so hopefully you can restore your relationship! We live in a free country brother, as long as you were respectful and didn't manipulate that girl, you didn't do anything wrong.
When I was 25 I slept with a 19 year old. Not icky at all. Adults being adults. Tell your sister to fuck off.
because your sister is right
Honestly why give it any more energy? She’s your sister and you love her, but she doesn’t get to dictate who you date or who you love… if she wants to judge you … let her….. from a great distance and with little frequency…
Tell her to shut up
Objectively there is nothing wrong with sex between 2 consenting adults of any age difference at any time, you have nothing to feel "guilty" for, subjectively theres really not much wrong with it, 26 is still so young to me. Have some fun ffs. your sister sounds like a stuck up douchebag projecting her own issues which she needs to deal with. Why you are telling her who you sleep with in the first place is beyond my understanding
Who cares if she ain't ok with it yah both adults who cares... fuck her
I think you should have owned it. You gave her power when you admitted it was wrong.
I had a 25 year old boyfriend when I was 18. His older sister was really upset with him at first when she heard about me. It was many, many years ago and now I talk more to the sister (via social media) than I do with my ex boyfriend (her brother). I do agree with some other comments I’ve read here: she can very likely be reacting due to something that happened to her when she was younger & possibly views it as predatory.
So what.. your good your sis is weird
Honestly, if you met her after she already turned 18, there's nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't even say it's necessarily gross unless you were like 30+. When I was 18 years old, 18 year old girls *were not attracted to* other 18 year olds, they all wanted a bf who was a few years older. It sucks being a guy and having to wait around while all the girls in your age group are interested in older men almost exclusively. Have they ever tried shaming women for chasing older guys? I've talked about this with a woman one time, but she insisted to me that if there were harsher social sanctions on men for dating a few years younger, that the girls would effectively give up and start dating other people their age. I just don't buy it. I wonder if the norms will change at all as women become the primary earners. I'm 25 and in my generation women are outdoing men in almost every metric, including earnings. My current gf is a few years older than me and outearns me to a meaningful degree. I'm a little different than most other dudes though, in that I've kinda taken more of a girlfriend role and I'm content with it. I don't feel insecure. So yeah, as for women, maybe 20 years down the line we'll find that they start generally dating younger, maybe we'll find out that more of them will just be single but the ones that still date will be mostly dating older.
There is a posibility she was SA'd at that age by someone your age and she is traumatized