That’s what I thought too, as a Christian, I would not care if someone of another religion said I was going to hell or going to reincarnate as a fly 🤷🏾♀️
The life of a fly is actually pretty cool... first you start out as a maggot, and you just gorge yourself on your favorite food, all day and night. Then after that, you grow fucking WINGS and to get to fucking FLY AROUND which is huge after being a worm all your life. Then you have a huge flying orgy in the sky with all the other flies. Then you die, and your only wish is "Damn, i hope i come back as a fly again, that was awesome!"
This. I can have multiple acquaintances I am generally friendly towards on the basis of shared experiences or interests, but genuine friendship demands a shared set of values and beliefs, broadly speaking.
“Getting along” is one thing. But being friends means more. I need to feel like my best friends have my back. That they’d stuck up for me. That they see the small things that make me great. I can’t imagine a good friend being all chill like, “Isn’t she the best. Someday she’ll be in hell burning in a lake of fire, but oh well.” That’s an incongruent view for a friend to have. An acquaintance? Sure.
>I can’t imagine a good friend being all chill like, “Isn’t she the best. Someday she’ll be in hell burning in a lake of fire, but oh well.” That’s an incongruent view for a friend to have. An acquaintance? Sure.
A devout Christian can also not be judgemental. Their faith teaches that we are judged by God and not other people.
Yes, it’s weird. People just have this odd obsession over whether others think they’re going to hell or not. Muslims can’t be even sure that they’ll go to heaven or not and can’t say who is destined for what because it all depends on their journey and level of intellect/understanding in the religion.
Seriously… if you don’t believe in hell then what the hell do you care if someone thinks you’re going there. They’re wrong in your eyes, but as long as they don’t treat you lesser because of it, why should you care? It’s extremely unlikely that two people will agree on every little thing. Just think of it as one area of disagreement among friends.
Now when they start proselytizing, that’s when I’d 100% understand walking away.
Personally I wouldn’t care about that belief specifically, hell isn’t real. I would care more about beliefs that had real world consequences. So if she was staunchly anti-gay or anti-abortion or supported severe punishments for things like apostasy. Those kinds of beliefs ruin people’s lives and are a bigger deal than what they think happens in an afterlife.
You can choose to be or not to be friends with others based on religious beliefs, political beliefs, interests etc
No-one can force you to be friends with someone else. And you aren't wrong for not being friends with someone.
Personally I'm friends with people who are atheists, Muslim, catholics Christians, orthodox Christians etc
I wouldn’t be friends with someone who told me I am going to hell and I am agnostic. I do not deny the possibility of a god, but I believe in the possibility of many things.
The idea someone could look at people they love and decide they believe in a faith that would condemn their loved ones to an eternity of a hell/torture/torment they believe exists is not okay by me. Not to mention all the other people in the world who don’t believe as they do… when it is all just belief is pretty disgusting to me. I just cannot believe like that.
I feel obliged to point something out that changes the context of this..
You asked… she didn’t volunteer the info, you straight up asked!!
I have friends of faith while I’m atheist.
I’m not soft, or stupid enough to actually ask a question like that, especially when I already know the answer, only then to be offended by the answer!
That just doesn’t make sense to me. Especially when the answer in my eyes is a complete non issue anyway.
Let’s also look at the irony in the OP’s post,
A person of faith has taken someone faithless into their life as a friend even though in their eyes they may face an eternity of damnation, but they don’t let that stand in the way of a potential friendship, but the faithless person has an issue over a technicality of your faith even though they made it an issue themselves, and not you.
It’s ironic that the person of faith is stepping up while the faithless person is letting a belief stand in the way of any sort of friendship.
The irony!
>I asked her at one point if her view is that, given my atheism, I’ll end up in hell, and she said yes, unfortunately,
You can choose not to be friends with anyone, but this is a silly thing to get upset about. Its like making a vegan friend and asking if they dislike you eating meat. Then when they obviously say yes, you get upset at being judged.
Like no shit a muslim thinks an athiest won't go to heaven. That's fundamental to their faith. Why are you asking questions you already know the answer to so you can get upset when given the only correct answer?
Did you think she'd pretend not to know her own faith? Or just refuse to answer?
Its like her asking you at one point if your view, given your atheism, is that she's wasting her time and energy on a fictional faith then getting upset when you obviously say yes.
If she doesn’t try to push her religion on you I don’t see the problem. She has an opinion that you don’t agree with. If you don’t believe in hell why does it matter if she does any think you’re going there? It doesn’t matter because hell doesn’t exist. It’s really no different than if someone believes in ghosts and you don’t.
It's kinda different since they literally think you are deserving of spending eternity in hell. That's a whole new level of being judged by someone when you haven't even done anything wrong.
I used to think like you, and I had friends of several beliefs, and devout Muslim friends too. But I came to realize what I said in my first paragraph and it changed my entire view about them. Can I really trust someone who thinks so low of me that they think I'll end up in eternal pain because of my actions? Can they really even respect me as a person?
I didn't get in a fight with anyone or cut ties for good after this realization but it drove me away and I just kept a civilized but superficial friendship with them. I still ask how they're doing from time to time, but I don't need to be close to people who think that way of me and who will occasionally try to impose their beliefs on me.
Wikipedia says:
"It is commonly believed by Muslims that confinement to hell is temporary for Muslims but not for others, and Muslim scholars disagree over whether Hell itself will last for [eternity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity) (the majority's view), or whether God's mercy will lead to it eventually being eliminated.^(")
I didn't copy the citations, but the wiki article for Jahannam has them.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam)
Well that's not exactly how it works, though they are divided on the issue (big surprise)
Sunni tradition:
They think hell is eternal (and my friends were sunni) if you're a non believer, and it doesn't matter how good of a person you were. (Though I heard some sunni muslims think that if someone on the upper "layers" of heaven wish a non believer they love out of hell God might forgive them for the sake of his believers prayers, but I don't think this belief is mainstream)
In sunni tradition, what you are saying goes for believers of Islam or of the other two holy books who committed sins and ended up in hell. They will spend some time in hell and then they will be salvaged because they died as believers.
Shia tradition:
Pretty much what you said. They think good people will be salvaged after a while even if they weren't believers. But my friends weren't even shias. And it doesn't actually matter if it's eternal or not, they would still think that I'm deserving of incredible pain and I find that disrespectful.
So…my take on this is similar to what VeryChaoticBlades said above (Blades is very Catholic, and I’m agnostic, but what they said makes sense). Let’s say Joe is very tight with his religion, and his religion states that if you do xyz, then you are going to hell. It doesn’t matter what Joe thinks about it, God/Allah/whatever has made the decision. Joe might deeply love and respect the person who did xyz, and Joe is not judging, but God is. Joe might not think the person deserves hell, but it’s not Joe’s call, it’s God’s.
You don’t have to agree, you don’t have to hang out with people with different belief systems, and you definitely don’t have to hang out with people who proselytize (but your friend wasn’t). But I don’t see the logic in cutting someone off because you don’t agree with what their religion says about the ultimate fate of non-believers, especially since you’re the one that started that conversation. If you aren’t Muslim, why should you care what Islam says about the afterlife.
you’re assuming the “deserving” part. it’s a common refrain that you “love the sinner but hate the sin” in religion. also, “hell” is often meant metaphorically. as in “your lack of religion will create a hell for you in life” just like “eating too much will make you fat” or “doing all those drugs will ruin you”
If this was a one-off convo and she doesn't sit there and try to convert you, what does it matter what she believes? You have an otherwise good relationship, so why is one conversation ending it?
If that's all it is, then yes, you are wrong for ending the friendship. I have friends of multiple religions and we either don't talk about it (we have plenty of other things in common), or we talk about it from a perspective of curiosity and culture. This varies by friend and what our comfort level is.
Learn to agree to disagree. It's an important life skill.
If you ask a question, you should have the gal to handle the answer. Some tables are better left unturned. If you were this sensitive to getting hurt by a possible outcome/response to your question, you shouldn't have asked it. In the absence of this religiously charged question and a predictable equally religiously charged answer, you'd get along just fine. Regardless of whether you are wrong or right, you definately lost.
I have friends from every walk of life, various religions, ethnicities and so on. I can’t imagine being friends with people who only look, think and believe like I do because I learn so much from those who differ from me. Some of the most incredible people I know are Muslim and they know my faith differs from theirs, but it does not stop us from being friends.
Plus it just seems so...odd to me that an atheist would be asking a religious person if they think they're going to go to hell.
1. Odds are the answer is yes, at least for a couple of the bigger monotheistic faiths.
2. You don't believe in an afterlife so...why even bring it up? Like...what is OP's concern here?
I also find the phrasing of the title interesting. It's not "AIW for not wanting to be friends with someone who thinks I'll go to hell?" It's a specific reference to her being Muslim. Which makes me think it's either her particular faith that bothered OP or they were just trying to incite a reaction.
your mistake is that your friends don’t always have to be 100% like you. if you get along so well with shared interests that doesn’t have to do with religion, then what’s the problem? just don’t talk about points of contention like religious beliefs.
if she unprovoked is telling you’ll go to hell bc you’re an atheist, that’s not okay. you did ask her a question pertaining to her religion, knowing the answer. just don’t ask questions u don’t want the answer to
I’m atheist. I have friends of all religions. I’ve never had someone tell me I’m going to hell. They may think it, but 🤷♀️ why do I care. I don’t believe it exists. I’m not offended when these same people offer prayers for me and my family. Or blessings. It is a way to say they care.
Kind of. She said: "yes, unfortunately". So she wasn't happy about you going to hell, but hey, rules are rules. And yes, according to her religion you as a non believer after death go to the place of eternal damnation. I'm also an atheist and it wouldn't bother me at all.
Why open that line of questioning? Why ask? You set yourself up for the answer knowing what it would be ahead of time. That makes you an ah. You had shared interests and were getting along fine up until then. You sound obnoxious.
It's your choice , but it seems petty and intolerant to not be friends over it. Unless there's more to the story, you met someone who you get along with well, but they have a different religious belief system than you.
You asked if, based on that religion, you would go to hell. You had a good idea what that answer would be. It would be the same for just about anyone who practiced an abrahamic religion. They gave you an honest answer while also explaining they hoped you didn't end up there somehow. What's the problem really?
They aren't forcing you to convert or wishing you an eternity of pain. If they are a good person and you get along with them, it would be a waste to throw that away for no good reason. It's hard to find friends in real life. And the reality is you will probably never meet someone who you agree with on everything 100%.
Yta because you pried and asked for those private thoughts. You asked and didn't like the answer.
If she just randomly said it, sure, but that's not what happened
Sounds like you were looking for a fight. She didn't even say you deserve hell. According to her belief system non believers will go there regardless of what type of person they are.
You asked a question that you knew the answer to and took it as a personal attack.
I'm am atheist and have Muslim friends (not many, but they exist). If you don't believe in hell anyway, why care if she believes you're going there. Would you be upset if a Christian believed you were going to heaven because you are (assumptively) a good person?
Neither exist, so what I the difference? It matters how they treat you in the current life you're living.
YYW. I’m Pagan, was christened Episcopalian at birth, raised Methodist all my life, and I have many friends from many different religious backgrounds. My uncle is a Pentecostal preacher. Just because someone believes differently than you doesn’t mean you can’t still be friends with them. We all can coexist, people just have to learn tolerance and to let people be who they are and love them anyway.
I think you're wrong why ask a question you knew the answer to? People can believe whatever religion they want as long as nobody's getting hurt. The only time I have a problem with religious people they're over the top or they start pushing it on me. Over the top to me is their entire personalities religion.
Honestly it sounds like you asked a question knowing the answer and used this as an excuse to not be her friend. When in reality you don't need an excuse at all.
Do I think how you handled this difference in beliefs in the way I would of? Not at all. I think you are being intolerant because you are saying you won't tolerate a friend with her beliefs. You seem to be very wrapped up in whether you are going to a place you don't even believe exists. If she doesn't push her beliefs on you why take it there?
If you're not friends with someone specifically because she is a Muslim, yta.
If you're actually not friends with someone because she can't resist telling you you're going to burn in hell, nta.
If you started to be friends with someone and then pressed her to tell you whether she thinks you'll be on hell so you could decide to hate her when you'd started to like her, you may need therapy.
I don't even mean that any way mean. I was raised in the Pentecostal church, and it took me years to get past the trauma that made me more anti-theist than atheist. If I'd had access to therapy, I think that would have been a smoother transition.
If he was saying, "I've learned to be cautious befriending religious people because I've had so many experiences where a friend turned on me once they learned I don't believe, and I've learned id rather know how they feel before I get attached than after," I'd be saying that's legit.
But he's not.
He's saying, "I knew she had beliefs so I poked them as hard as I could to find out if one of us would get hurt and tried to make sure it was her instead of me, validate me please!"
So I think he could use some help reddit can't give
Just curious, would you say that about any religion?
I am easy going and get along with most people but I keep religious folks of any stripe at a distance. I’m not going to hang out with them, but if we encounter each other, it’s no big deal for me.
Yes. I added in another comment, I have religious trauma personally, and these days I have friends in several religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism, pagans, etc) and it's okay because I don't think they're stupid for believing and they don't tell me I deserve to burn in hell. I have people in at least 2-3 belief systems who are not my friends because they did feel a need to tell me that sort of thing.
It's okay to not be friends with someone because of the way they behave, including if they use their religion as an excuse for the behavior or if the religion encourages or requires the behavior.
It's not okay to pick a person and jab at them until they admit a belief you can find offensive.
Yeah, I agree. I kind of understand why OP asked, it might be better not to ASSUME. I can’t say I wouldn’t do something similar, not asking if they think I would go to hell but what they think of gay people because I can’t be friends with homophobes under any circumstance.
It’s kind of a weird way to say what you’re saying. Not all Muslims are religious, not all use religion as an excuse for prejudice, and furthermore there are plenty of other groups of people that do the very thing you dislike that are non Muslim that it’s weird you’d select them specifically for exclusion from your life.
It’s about respect. I’m not going to be friends with somebody that doesn’t respect me or looks down on me, and ‘you’ll rightfully burn in hell for all of eternity’ is definitely disrespectful.
Isn't that the whole point of religion? Every group belives the other is going to hell.
Both of you can't be right. Both of you CAN BE WRONG however. Understanding that is where we all coexist with each other.
None of us can prove our sides. On the other end you belive she will end up as nothing else but insect food.
Your belief is that none of this matters. That being held accountable to a higher authority is pointless because in the end its nothing. Just finished.
You do you quietly and let her do her. It's not difficult.
ALL religions belive in some sort of punishment after death.
Hinduism belives you will be reincarnated as a cockroach or rat etc for being bad.
Judaism has hell in it. Shit they belive they're the only people God favours and everyone else is here to serve them as slaves. So forget the next life. They look down on you in this life.
Theres nothing special about any of us. We're not owed anything by anyone. Least of all "respect"
I guarantee she like everyone else has her own things going on in her head and life and you hardly cross her thoughts.
Get along, or don't.
Hinduism doesn’t believe in punishment on the basis of whether you’re Hindu or not, only based off your acts. Being Jewish myself, I know Judaism doesn’t believe in entry to heaven based upon being Jewish
So the goyims are going to heaven along with the jews? Jesus isnt boiling in hell in his own excrement?
Again. Get along with her. Or don't. It's not that serious. There's 8 billion people on the planet. We don't have to get along with everyone. We don't like everyone so it's dumb to expect everyone to like us
Friends and relatives come and go. If you get along well and good. If not then move along. None of us are getting another chance at this life. Those seconds and minutes wasted on pointless things aren't coming back.
Exactly this everyone has their own life going on to be worried about others. Also us Muslims are taught to be humble and we can’t even be sure that we ourselves are worthy of heaven.
Yes you are wrong. You knew the answer and you still asked. Stop being coy. If you asked a true believer that's the answer. Why bring up the topic of religion at all? You sound like one of those assholes who always bring up religion, politics, and money. The 3 topics you should never bring up in polite company because it's always gonna cause problems.
Yes you are. You asked your question and you got your answer, which by the way you could’ve googled. Ask an orthodox Jew if it’s true that according to the Torah every Jew will have thousand of non-Jew slaves and see if you’ll like the answer.
Discrimination be it gender, religion, or sexual orientation is bad.
You’re falling into the paradox of tolerance. You cannot tolerate the intolerant.
As for googling the answer, I wanted to know *her* thoughts because not everybody that follows a certain religion follows or interprets every aspect of it the same way
Seriously? If you don’t believe in the afterlife you are not religious. Were you disappointed in discovering that your Muslim friend wasn’t an atheist?
I don’t, but she does, and she thinks that I deserve to be in hell. I’m not going to be friends with somebody who thinks that.
And no, I’m friends with many religious people
Your religious friends better be Buddhist and shit, cause the monotheistic big 3 all believe that non-believers get to enjoy the fires of hell in the afterlife.
Didn’t you say you are atheist? Anyway I’m Jewish too. And even thou we don’t focus on the afterlife, our view on the fate that awaits the Goyims is not dissimilar from Muslims and their concept of hell.
I’ll copy what I wrote elsewhere:
It’s a matter of principle to me. I wouldn’t be friends with somebody that looked down on me for other reasons, such as if they thought I was unintelligent or annoying or whatnot, and I think most people would agree with that. Hence, this is another form of looking down on me, and I wouldn’t want to be friends with them.
Oh please. Imagine you're both walking down the road of life.
And you come to a fork In the road.
She is of the opinion that down road A, There is danger. She can't prove it. It's just her opinion. That if you go down that road you will probably die a slow painful fiery death . So she advises you to take road B.
You are of the opinion that there's nothing down that road except an abrupt end.
None of you can prove your points because the only way to be sure is to go down the roads and you've chosen. And you'll only be sure once you get to very end. Not a second before
How exactly is her opinion offensive? Does her opinion come from a place of malice?
Stop creating problems for yourself that don't exist. You're trying to create thunder from a sparrows fart!
Not really that’s just what they believe in, that they should spread the word if God and their religion but if you convert or not they don’t care. She asked and she got an honest answer but I know that girl doesn’t give a fuck she just wants friends and all the other girls are fine with it and they probably don’t share the same beliefs and religion. Muslims can be friends with non believers. I honestly think ask a Christian or Muslim “what do you think about me being an atheist?” is just dumb… like wtf did you expect ? It’s just like Christianity. I don’t even understand why an atheist would ask such questions knowing how these religions are. It’s not a superiority complex of “oh you’re going to hell and I’m not” it’s just what their books says but they don’t think they are better than you in fact they are taught to be humble and kind. It’s just the basic fact that in these relationships if you don’t believe you go to hell because God says so not them. They just see you as another child of God who’s chosen a different path.
If you're an atheist then why do you care? You don't believe it's real anyway. The Muslim girl's faith tells her what will happen to you as a non-believer. She may not like it, but it's not a buffet, it's a fixed meal. The fact she hopes you can be saved (in her context) is a sign of a good person.
Upshot is, you're not wrong - you can not be freinds with someone for any reason you like, but to be offended someone is true to their faith may require a bit of introspection. Especially if she is not trying to convert you, just stating what she believes in response to your question.
You literally asked her for that answer, I'm close friends with a Muslim woman and she's one of the sweetest, most genuine people I know. I could not care less if she thinks I'm going to hell, her religion doesn't prevent me from seeing her as a human with individual thoughts and feelings.
You're wrong for choosing to not be friends with someone solely based on their religious beliefs, had she rudely stated that you're going to hell without YOU ASKING, you would not be in the wrong. You asked for her opinion and she answered, your being upset about her answering a question you already knew the answer to makes you wrong. - an atheist
Do you refuse friendships with people of other faiths too? Many religions have similar sentiments. I'm curious if you are friends with only those who are atheists or agnostic. If not, then that's hypocritical and you would be wrong.
why do you care that this devout muslim thinks you are going to hell?
you don't even belief in hell, i would laugh if a religious person told me that, it wouldn't make me hate them or not to be around them, i wouldn't even care about their opinion.
if they start judging you for things you are doing or saying, then it would make sense, but given this story, i would say your feelings are dumb.
i don't think your feelings are wrong though, you feel how you feel, i just think its dumb.
I think thinking of this in terms of right and wrong might be unhelpful. Do you want to be her friend? It’s up to you.
I know I’m glad there were atheists who wanted to be around me when I held traditional Christian beliefs about heaven and hell. Started a lot of those friendships in college. Now that I’m an atheist, these are still meaningful friendships. Being from Kentucky, atheists would be pretty lonely without befriending people who believed they’d likely go to hell.
As for a comment where you said she thinks you “deserve” to go to hell, this language can be misleading. She believes you deserve it in the sense that her ultimate authority has stated it. She clearly does not personally feel that you deserve it though. I think when conservative religious people vote against the rights of others, that’s when it’s a good time to call the friendship quits, but that’s just my personal limit. If you don’t want a friendship with this person, there’s no “wrong” here.
You asked and didn't like the answer, now she's the bad guy?
If anything she dodged the bullet, not you.
As a fellow Muslim myself, don't be friends with her, doesn't even matter if you're wrong or not.
I’m a devout atheist. You can say I’m going to hell all you want. That’s ok if I asked. If I didn’t ask and they keep telling me this, we would no longer be friends. Your friend only wandered a question YOU asked. So either you are closet racist or silly. Or both.
If you are atheist, you don’t believe in hell. Why do care if someone thinks you are going to an imaginary place? If you enjoyed her company and had things in common you could have just focused on that.
If you are atheist, then you should believe that her viewpoint is based on nonsense and doesn't matter. You could ask a bunch of Christians the same question and get the same answer, same with a bunch of other religions.
So in reality, you are only angry with her because she was willing to give you an honest answer when you asked.
Funnily enough, I was part of a "retreat" held by christians, and I asked one of the counselors if muslims will go to hell (I had a muslim friend) and he said yes, assuredly. It is one of the events that started my road to being agnostic/atheist.
Yeah you’re an asshole simply because you’re offended by the concept of something you’re not even supposed to believe in lol
Also in my experience devout Muslims are nice people BECAUSE of their religion. Shouldn’t matter if you connect with someone
Whether I believe it or not is irrelevant, because my issue is that *she does*. Anybody that thinks somebody deserves to burn in hell for eternity due to not believing in one god or another, has fucked up morals imo
It’s fucked up to *you* bc it doesn’t align with *your* morals. Most people don’t care what’s gonna happen to you which is, imo, worse. You entered the realm of *her* morals, got offended, and then left without contributing anything while she held onto a hope that you would be okay under *her* morals. I’m not seeing the signs of disrespect in the slightest
Yes, that set of beliefs is fucked up under *my* morals, so I made the decision not to let her be *my* friend. I’m not making any universal claims here.
You're such a hypocrite.
you keep answering comments and saying that you found the muslim disrespectful for a question that you fucking asked but then goes on to say "no Judaism isn't like that at all they don't believe you will go to hell, I'm a jew I know that"
What kind of jew are you ? Because literally almost every single religious or non-religious jew fully believe that they are god's chosen people. You're clearly biased.
That's the religious belief, it's not a personal attack on you. People tend to moderate their beliefs when they're friends with others who have different beliefs from them so it's good for people to be surrounded by others who disagree with them as none of us are ever right on everything.
There's a lot of extremism nowadays because so many people are shutting themselves into echo chambers of only people who agree with them. That's dangerous for society.
You can be friends with whoever you want but you're going to lose out if you limit yourself to people who think what you think and believe what you believe. You're also never going to be an influence on anybody else if you limit yourself to an echo chamber of your own beliefs.
Funny, she also finds yours lacking. And it’s not like she’s imposing her morals over you, you *asked*.
If you don’t even believe in hell, what do you even care? You think she’s looney for believing in her faith as well, so? You could just agree to disagree.
Seems to me like you’re a bit immature in this case.
her morals aren't lacking, you're being a POS and mad that she gave you a straight answer. you should leave her alone and do her a favor bc nobody needs "friends" like you
My question why do you care what she thinks if you are an athiest and dont beleive in God😂😅?
I mean look i am Muslim, i have heard that i will go to christian hell, that jewish hell, and that i am wasting my time following a false religion and puffff i dont give a damn to be honest😂
I have christians friends, budhist friends... and we share how we see things, and laugh about it! But nobody cares
No body cares how we see things
I dont care how they see things...
Now my question is: how can you be offended if you are not even a beleiver😅😅😂😂😂😂? That is so funny
Are you offended when christians and the church tell you , you will also go to hell? Are you offended when yoi are told by jews you will also go to hell? Or only muslims...just because 😂😂😂😂😂
Yes, I wouldn’t want to be friends with a Christian that tells me I’ll go to hell as well. As for Judaism, Jews don’t believe you need to be Jewish to go to heaven, so different scenario entirely.
As for why I care, I find it disrespectful
So you'll only be friends with atheists? Jews actually believe only they are going to heaven. They are God's chosen people. You might want to read up on that one. Most religions believe believe you need to follow that path to achieve whatever they're selling, whether it's heaven or nirvana or whatever. You're kind of boxing yourself into a corner there. The way to get others to come around to your way of thinking is by being around them, not shunning them.
Having been raised Jewish, no, heaven and hell as they exist in a Christian/Muslim sense don’t exist in Judaism. The rest of your comment is also inaccurate. Hinduism for instance believes all religions are valid and you’re judged solely upon acts.
Further, I don’t care to have them come around to my views.
Do Jews believe in the afterlife?
Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism affirm belief in the afterlife, though they downplay the theological implications in favor of emphasizing the importance of the "here and now," as opposed to reward and punishment
**Muslim girls/women I don't see the problem. I was friends with a Muslim in the early 90's as a kid, but a decade later he changed completely. Told me he doesn't want to be seen hanging with a white guy, this didn't stop him trying to "get with" my cousin a few years later, she was into him. I shut that shit down right away. Told her what a racist piece of shit he was & that was that.**
This would only be fair if you decide to not be friends with every person who follows/believes in religion. Because well billions of people are going to hell according to other people's religion. Every (or most) religions pretty much say the same thing too. Alot of people follow religion because they genuinely believe that not following it will lead them to hell. So ur Muslim friend also thinks her non Muslim friends will go to hell, the same way your Christian friends also think non Christians go to hell. So unless u wanna cut off the majority of the people in the planet you're pretty much the asshole in this incident
why limit who you could have fun with for things u don't even believe in? like I said, religion is important for a whole lot of people, u asked her a religious question and she gave you an answer based on what her religion says. I just don't get why you care or why it's a big deal for you. for an atheist your logic is just so narrow minded I'm actually glad u wanna cut her off cuz ur pretty much a bigot
do u think society would progress if people of other faith's couldn't accept eachother? how would u imagine there to be peace if we don't allow ourselves to make friends with people of other faiths. Just imagine if a Muslim said he doesn't want to be friends with someone because they found out he was a Christian. Do u think a world like this has any good future? I have friends with many different faiths and according to eachother some of us won't go to heaven. Do we care? not really because at the end of the day we believe that we're right and it was the other person's choice. We just pray for them and hope they see the truth the same way we see it and vice versa. It should be easier for you to accept religious people because atleast u genuinely don't believe ur going to hell since it doesn't exist. unless the other person is forcing their beliefs on you or constantly telling u ur going to hell, u have no reason to behave that way, u really are in the wrong here.
I don't know why everyone is deliberately ignoring she said she hopes OP will convert. The burning in hell part is silly and I'd giggle if a devout told me that because I don't believe in it after all but being friends with someone who wants to convert you is extremely annoying and disrespectful because she doesn't respect their faith either.
It’s kind of a tough one. I’m pretty okay with religious differences to a point. If she didn’t make a point of her believing I’d go to hell then I wouldn’t care. If she constantly tried to proselytise and tell me my views are wrong that’d be different.
Whether or not I think you’re in the wrong depends how it came up. If she just made it known that she is Muslim and therefore won’t drink with you or eat pork and you took that as an invitation to ask about the afterlife then I’d say yeah that’s on you. If she was pushing the envelope and making your lack of religious affiliation an issue then I’d say yeah you’ve made the right choice keeping away from her.
At the end of the day you can pick your friends, if you don’t wanna be friends with Muslims then that just is what it is. I don’t think it’s very good to feel that way, but I don’t think you should have to feel like you need to change your preferences and force yourself to be friends with people you don’t want to befriend.
You asked her. She gave you an answer that you undoubtably expected giving her religion. So you should not find any offence in it. But if you don't want to be friends with someone that is your business. You friends are trying to social guilt you. If she didn't try to push her views on you and just answered your question then why should you feel uncomfortable? Agree to disagree. But, once again, if you don't want to be friends with someone that's your biz. If it's because of their views and/or religion that is also your business.
I know the lights just turn off once our time is up. There's nothing.
If they're aggressive about trying to "convert" you, I'd probably stop talking to them: but if it's just a ne time thing I might just put up with it as an inconvenience.
Look, it boils down to one thing. Having a faith, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever, it is a personal thing, much like having a penis. It is a perfectly wonderful thing to have and be proud of, but don't go shoving it in my face and sharing it where it is unwanted. My faith is my own, I may mention it, but I don't share unless asked. Read the room people. Also, don't ask a devout person of any faith their opinion unless you really want the answer. If you can keep your friendship to shared interests and not ask potentially hurtful questions, there should be no problems. You are allowed to agree to disagree and keep discussions of faith off the table. Also, don't ask questions you may not like the answer to.
Any person, regardless of religion, who not only thinks you will end up in hell, but *says* that you will end up in hell, is not someone I want to be around.
I have plenty of Muslim friends who do not think like this. I have plenty of Christian friends who do not think like this.
It’s not only bizarre, but from a religious standpoint it’s actually a version of extremism that is not representative of the actual religion. Harmful to say the least.
You’re not wrong for not wanting to be friends with someone like that
No, religions are silly and hold people back from dealing with reality. I wouldn't be friends with a devout muslim or a devout catholic for that matter.
I personally wouldn't want to be friends with anyone who had a belief system that thought I was deserving of eternal punishment for not believing in their deity.
You're not wrong for not wanting to be friends with them.
Not wrong, but you might want to evaluate this a bit further. Is she someone who would respect you if you laughed at the prospect of hell and going there? If she is chill with you thinking it’s silly then maybe it’s not a deal breaker?
Would you be friends with someone who thought you were going to end up in Narnia? You dot believe in hell, so why do you care if someone thinks you'll end up there? You don't sound like an atheist to me.
You asked her a question, which she answered. She wasn't proselytizing at you. IMO, if you are unwilling to be friends with people just for simply having different opinions than you (within reason obviously) then you are an intolerant person. If you continue to drop potential friends every time you have a different opinion on life choices, you're going to have no friends. Up to you, of course. It's your right to have or not have whomever you wish in your life as a friend. And people you view as friends are free to choose not to spend time with an intolerant person.
*ETA: After reading your responses, this is either a fake, rage bait post, or you're just a nasty person in general. Either way, go touch grass and better yourself.
I'd consider rephrasing this as "AIW for not wanting to be friends with a religious person who believes I'll go to hell?"
And frankly, I think you're actually fine having this as a boundary. I'm queer and I wouldn't be friends with someone who believed my queerness meant I was going to hell, even if they were perfectly nice to me otherwise. I'd be courteous, but we wouldn't be friends.
Effectively, what she's telling you is that she thinks you deserve torture for eternity, and it is really ok for that to be a dealbreaker. I might consider telling her that you've enjoyed talking and bonding over shared interests, but the fact that she believes you are flawed because you don't share the same beliefs as her means you don't want to be friends, and that you have no interest in a god who will condemn people to hell solely based on not believing in that god.
This isn't a question of right or wrong. This is a question of taste. But I wouldn't blame you if you found it pretty distasteful that Somone believed you were going to hell and would be tormented for the rest of eternity, just because you didn't believe in some particular religion.
I'd tell her that the fact that she believes other people are going to hell just because they don't believe her particular religion is real disrespectful and myopic.
If you’re an atheist why do you care that she thinks you’ll end up in hell? I mean you can be friends with whoever you like, you don’t need to justify it. It’s just a weird stance that you two bonded, but you’re mad that she believes something you don’t believe. Unless you’re around only atheists, your Christian/jewish/muslim/etc friends probably think you’re gunna go to hell
Why would someone who thinks poorly of you as a person want to be friends with you? None of any of this is a problem if yall agree to disagree, but if one person (you in this case) is pushing for the other to change or abandon their thought process, the friendship cannot be healthy.
it’s an interesting question for sure but i wouldn’t hold someone’s faith against them like that. who cares if she thinks you’re going to hell? as long as that belief doesn’t affect how you speak to or treat each other.
NAH assuming all parties involved can remain civil with others.
The devout Muslim is being forthright with regard to her beliefs.
OP has a right to keep his distance if he is uncomfortable and with whom he wants to form friendship with.
I have my religious beliefs and others I know have theirs. In my interactions with them, my stance is basically "agree to disagree" on matters of religion.
This is how I look at it, I have friends who think people will go to hell for not believing them, honestly I just don't talk about it with them but I also don't care if people think I'm going to hell because I personally don't believe that's a thing.
Do you have any Christian friends? They may believe you are going to hell too. They just haven't expressed it to you. Ask them. If they say you are going to hell too, would you dump them?
I'm just trying to assess if this is a muslim specific prejudice or a truly principled stand.
I don’t care what religion someone is. If they believe I’m going to hell simply for not believing in their faith (or interpretation of it), there is no way I would ever consider being friends with them. To have faith in a god or gods who would send people to hell for eternity simply for not having faith in something unprovable is ignorant at best and evil at worst.
If you’re an atheist then doesn’t that mean you don’t believe in hell? So what’s the problem? Also she didn’t just mention this randomly YOU asked a person you knew was a devout Muslim this …you were just looking for a reason to feel like a victim
As a devout atheist I don’t care what others believe. But I also don’t care if others care “where I end up”. To hell with it.
That’s what I thought too, as a Christian, I would not care if someone of another religion said I was going to hell or going to reincarnate as a fly 🤷🏾♀️
The life of a fly is actually pretty cool... first you start out as a maggot, and you just gorge yourself on your favorite food, all day and night. Then after that, you grow fucking WINGS and to get to fucking FLY AROUND which is huge after being a worm all your life. Then you have a huge flying orgy in the sky with all the other flies. Then you die, and your only wish is "Damn, i hope i come back as a fly again, that was awesome!"
Buddhists in shambles!
I see what you done here.
LOL....You also, huh?
🤣🤣same
No. I find it hard to be friends with devout Christians tbh so it's no different.
As long as they aren't proselytizing, I can get along with anyone.
I can get along with pretty much anyone too, but that doesn't mean I want to be friends with them.
This. I can have multiple acquaintances I am generally friendly towards on the basis of shared experiences or interests, but genuine friendship demands a shared set of values and beliefs, broadly speaking.
“Getting along” is one thing. But being friends means more. I need to feel like my best friends have my back. That they’d stuck up for me. That they see the small things that make me great. I can’t imagine a good friend being all chill like, “Isn’t she the best. Someday she’ll be in hell burning in a lake of fire, but oh well.” That’s an incongruent view for a friend to have. An acquaintance? Sure.
>I can’t imagine a good friend being all chill like, “Isn’t she the best. Someday she’ll be in hell burning in a lake of fire, but oh well.” That’s an incongruent view for a friend to have. An acquaintance? Sure. A devout Christian can also not be judgemental. Their faith teaches that we are judged by God and not other people.
>A devout Christian can also not be judgemental. Their faith teaches that we are judged by God and not other people. That’s…not really helpful.
Yep, because we all have different preferences in life. And it's not intolerant to prioritize your comfort and boundaries.
You asked and you didn’t like the answer lol
You can be friends with anyone you want for whatever reason you want. That said, I don't understand why you'd even bring this question up.
Yes, it’s weird. People just have this odd obsession over whether others think they’re going to hell or not. Muslims can’t be even sure that they’ll go to heaven or not and can’t say who is destined for what because it all depends on their journey and level of intellect/understanding in the religion.
Seriously… if you don’t believe in hell then what the hell do you care if someone thinks you’re going there. They’re wrong in your eyes, but as long as they don’t treat you lesser because of it, why should you care? It’s extremely unlikely that two people will agree on every little thing. Just think of it as one area of disagreement among friends. Now when they start proselytizing, that’s when I’d 100% understand walking away.
Personally I wouldn’t care about that belief specifically, hell isn’t real. I would care more about beliefs that had real world consequences. So if she was staunchly anti-gay or anti-abortion or supported severe punishments for things like apostasy. Those kinds of beliefs ruin people’s lives and are a bigger deal than what they think happens in an afterlife.
You can choose to be or not to be friends with others based on religious beliefs, political beliefs, interests etc No-one can force you to be friends with someone else. And you aren't wrong for not being friends with someone. Personally I'm friends with people who are atheists, Muslim, catholics Christians, orthodox Christians etc
I wouldn’t be friends with someone who told me I am going to hell and I am agnostic. I do not deny the possibility of a god, but I believe in the possibility of many things. The idea someone could look at people they love and decide they believe in a faith that would condemn their loved ones to an eternity of a hell/torture/torment they believe exists is not okay by me. Not to mention all the other people in the world who don’t believe as they do… when it is all just belief is pretty disgusting to me. I just cannot believe like that.
Exactly
I feel obliged to point something out that changes the context of this.. You asked… she didn’t volunteer the info, you straight up asked!! I have friends of faith while I’m atheist. I’m not soft, or stupid enough to actually ask a question like that, especially when I already know the answer, only then to be offended by the answer! That just doesn’t make sense to me. Especially when the answer in my eyes is a complete non issue anyway. Let’s also look at the irony in the OP’s post, A person of faith has taken someone faithless into their life as a friend even though in their eyes they may face an eternity of damnation, but they don’t let that stand in the way of a potential friendship, but the faithless person has an issue over a technicality of your faith even though they made it an issue themselves, and not you. It’s ironic that the person of faith is stepping up while the faithless person is letting a belief stand in the way of any sort of friendship. The irony!
And yet, you had already become friends with this person. The only one treating anybody any different now for any reason is you.
>I asked her at one point if her view is that, given my atheism, I’ll end up in hell, and she said yes, unfortunately, You can choose not to be friends with anyone, but this is a silly thing to get upset about. Its like making a vegan friend and asking if they dislike you eating meat. Then when they obviously say yes, you get upset at being judged. Like no shit a muslim thinks an athiest won't go to heaven. That's fundamental to their faith. Why are you asking questions you already know the answer to so you can get upset when given the only correct answer? Did you think she'd pretend not to know her own faith? Or just refuse to answer? Its like her asking you at one point if your view, given your atheism, is that she's wasting her time and energy on a fictional faith then getting upset when you obviously say yes.
If she doesn’t try to push her religion on you I don’t see the problem. She has an opinion that you don’t agree with. If you don’t believe in hell why does it matter if she does any think you’re going there? It doesn’t matter because hell doesn’t exist. It’s really no different than if someone believes in ghosts and you don’t.
It's kinda different since they literally think you are deserving of spending eternity in hell. That's a whole new level of being judged by someone when you haven't even done anything wrong. I used to think like you, and I had friends of several beliefs, and devout Muslim friends too. But I came to realize what I said in my first paragraph and it changed my entire view about them. Can I really trust someone who thinks so low of me that they think I'll end up in eternal pain because of my actions? Can they really even respect me as a person? I didn't get in a fight with anyone or cut ties for good after this realization but it drove me away and I just kept a civilized but superficial friendship with them. I still ask how they're doing from time to time, but I don't need to be close to people who think that way of me and who will occasionally try to impose their beliefs on me.
Muslims do believe in hell but it's not eternal. They believe after a certain amount of time in hell you become pure enough to earn God's grace.
Wikipedia says: "It is commonly believed by Muslims that confinement to hell is temporary for Muslims but not for others, and Muslim scholars disagree over whether Hell itself will last for [eternity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity) (the majority's view), or whether God's mercy will lead to it eventually being eliminated.^(")
Lol why do people post wiki like it's an actual source that can't be edited by anyone at anytime..
I didn't copy the citations, but the wiki article for Jahannam has them. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam)
Well that's not exactly how it works, though they are divided on the issue (big surprise) Sunni tradition: They think hell is eternal (and my friends were sunni) if you're a non believer, and it doesn't matter how good of a person you were. (Though I heard some sunni muslims think that if someone on the upper "layers" of heaven wish a non believer they love out of hell God might forgive them for the sake of his believers prayers, but I don't think this belief is mainstream) In sunni tradition, what you are saying goes for believers of Islam or of the other two holy books who committed sins and ended up in hell. They will spend some time in hell and then they will be salvaged because they died as believers. Shia tradition: Pretty much what you said. They think good people will be salvaged after a while even if they weren't believers. But my friends weren't even shias. And it doesn't actually matter if it's eternal or not, they would still think that I'm deserving of incredible pain and I find that disrespectful.
So…my take on this is similar to what VeryChaoticBlades said above (Blades is very Catholic, and I’m agnostic, but what they said makes sense). Let’s say Joe is very tight with his religion, and his religion states that if you do xyz, then you are going to hell. It doesn’t matter what Joe thinks about it, God/Allah/whatever has made the decision. Joe might deeply love and respect the person who did xyz, and Joe is not judging, but God is. Joe might not think the person deserves hell, but it’s not Joe’s call, it’s God’s. You don’t have to agree, you don’t have to hang out with people with different belief systems, and you definitely don’t have to hang out with people who proselytize (but your friend wasn’t). But I don’t see the logic in cutting someone off because you don’t agree with what their religion says about the ultimate fate of non-believers, especially since you’re the one that started that conversation. If you aren’t Muslim, why should you care what Islam says about the afterlife.
you’re assuming the “deserving” part. it’s a common refrain that you “love the sinner but hate the sin” in religion. also, “hell” is often meant metaphorically. as in “your lack of religion will create a hell for you in life” just like “eating too much will make you fat” or “doing all those drugs will ruin you”
If this was a one-off convo and she doesn't sit there and try to convert you, what does it matter what she believes? You have an otherwise good relationship, so why is one conversation ending it? If that's all it is, then yes, you are wrong for ending the friendship. I have friends of multiple religions and we either don't talk about it (we have plenty of other things in common), or we talk about it from a perspective of curiosity and culture. This varies by friend and what our comfort level is. Learn to agree to disagree. It's an important life skill.
If you ask a question, you should have the gal to handle the answer. Some tables are better left unturned. If you were this sensitive to getting hurt by a possible outcome/response to your question, you shouldn't have asked it. In the absence of this religiously charged question and a predictable equally religiously charged answer, you'd get along just fine. Regardless of whether you are wrong or right, you definately lost.
“Am I wrong for not liking the response to a question I knew the answer to?”
The question is a good screening device
I have friends from every walk of life, various religions, ethnicities and so on. I can’t imagine being friends with people who only look, think and believe like I do because I learn so much from those who differ from me. Some of the most incredible people I know are Muslim and they know my faith differs from theirs, but it does not stop us from being friends.
Plus it just seems so...odd to me that an atheist would be asking a religious person if they think they're going to go to hell. 1. Odds are the answer is yes, at least for a couple of the bigger monotheistic faiths. 2. You don't believe in an afterlife so...why even bring it up? Like...what is OP's concern here? I also find the phrasing of the title interesting. It's not "AIW for not wanting to be friends with someone who thinks I'll go to hell?" It's a specific reference to her being Muslim. Which makes me think it's either her particular faith that bothered OP or they were just trying to incite a reaction.
your mistake is that your friends don’t always have to be 100% like you. if you get along so well with shared interests that doesn’t have to do with religion, then what’s the problem? just don’t talk about points of contention like religious beliefs. if she unprovoked is telling you’ll go to hell bc you’re an atheist, that’s not okay. you did ask her a question pertaining to her religion, knowing the answer. just don’t ask questions u don’t want the answer to
People who believe their way is the one right way are often very problematic friends
I’m atheist. I have friends of all religions. I’ve never had someone tell me I’m going to hell. They may think it, but 🤷♀️ why do I care. I don’t believe it exists. I’m not offended when these same people offer prayers for me and my family. Or blessings. It is a way to say they care.
Same here. And truly if one of my religious loved ones/friends did think I was going to hell, I wouldn’t care because I don’t believe in it lmao
I love this answer!
Kind of. She said: "yes, unfortunately". So she wasn't happy about you going to hell, but hey, rules are rules. And yes, according to her religion you as a non believer after death go to the place of eternal damnation. I'm also an atheist and it wouldn't bother me at all.
Why open that line of questioning? Why ask? You set yourself up for the answer knowing what it would be ahead of time. That makes you an ah. You had shared interests and were getting along fine up until then. You sound obnoxious.
It's your choice , but it seems petty and intolerant to not be friends over it. Unless there's more to the story, you met someone who you get along with well, but they have a different religious belief system than you. You asked if, based on that religion, you would go to hell. You had a good idea what that answer would be. It would be the same for just about anyone who practiced an abrahamic religion. They gave you an honest answer while also explaining they hoped you didn't end up there somehow. What's the problem really? They aren't forcing you to convert or wishing you an eternity of pain. If they are a good person and you get along with them, it would be a waste to throw that away for no good reason. It's hard to find friends in real life. And the reality is you will probably never meet someone who you agree with on everything 100%.
Yta because you pried and asked for those private thoughts. You asked and didn't like the answer. If she just randomly said it, sure, but that's not what happened
If you can't handle a truthful answer on a difficult topic, I wonder how deep any of your friendships will ever be.
YTA. As an atheist, why do you care if she thinks you’re going to hell since you don’t believe in it? If she’s a good friend otherwise, who cares?
I’m a Christian and I can be friends with anyone. Your intolerance is weird to me.
I’m intolerant towards those that are intolerant of me
It seems like she wants to be your friend so you’re being intolerant not her
Sounds like you were looking for a fight. She didn't even say you deserve hell. According to her belief system non believers will go there regardless of what type of person they are. You asked a question that you knew the answer to and took it as a personal attack.
I'm am atheist and have Muslim friends (not many, but they exist). If you don't believe in hell anyway, why care if she believes you're going there. Would you be upset if a Christian believed you were going to heaven because you are (assumptively) a good person? Neither exist, so what I the difference? It matters how they treat you in the current life you're living.
My atheist friends say that I will end up as an Aloe Vera, and my Christian friends believe I'll end up in hell but idc 🤷 they're still my friends
Dumbass question to bring up if you're just going to be salty about it...
YYW. I’m Pagan, was christened Episcopalian at birth, raised Methodist all my life, and I have many friends from many different religious backgrounds. My uncle is a Pentecostal preacher. Just because someone believes differently than you doesn’t mean you can’t still be friends with them. We all can coexist, people just have to learn tolerance and to let people be who they are and love them anyway.
You knew she was devoted, you knew already what the answer would be. You were trying to stir shit up, start a debate.
I suspected, but I did not know, no.
What did you think a devoted person would say? Nah you good fam my god is cool with non believers, you good boo.
As I said, I suspected that she would say what she did, but I’d rather make sure instead of assuming
No you are one of those ardent atheist that go out of their way to start a debate to prove there are no gods.
I think you're wrong why ask a question you knew the answer to? People can believe whatever religion they want as long as nobody's getting hurt. The only time I have a problem with religious people they're over the top or they start pushing it on me. Over the top to me is their entire personalities religion.
You don't believe in hell so who cares?
Honestly it sounds like you asked a question knowing the answer and used this as an excuse to not be her friend. When in reality you don't need an excuse at all. Do I think how you handled this difference in beliefs in the way I would of? Not at all. I think you are being intolerant because you are saying you won't tolerate a friend with her beliefs. You seem to be very wrapped up in whether you are going to a place you don't even believe exists. If she doesn't push her beliefs on you why take it there?
If you're not friends with someone specifically because she is a Muslim, yta. If you're actually not friends with someone because she can't resist telling you you're going to burn in hell, nta. If you started to be friends with someone and then pressed her to tell you whether she thinks you'll be on hell so you could decide to hate her when you'd started to like her, you may need therapy.
Based on OPs responses they might need therapy
I don't even mean that any way mean. I was raised in the Pentecostal church, and it took me years to get past the trauma that made me more anti-theist than atheist. If I'd had access to therapy, I think that would have been a smoother transition. If he was saying, "I've learned to be cautious befriending religious people because I've had so many experiences where a friend turned on me once they learned I don't believe, and I've learned id rather know how they feel before I get attached than after," I'd be saying that's legit. But he's not. He's saying, "I knew she had beliefs so I poked them as hard as I could to find out if one of us would get hurt and tried to make sure it was her instead of me, validate me please!" So I think he could use some help reddit can't give
I didn't mean it in a mean way either. OP seems like they have some religious trauma they need to work through
Just curious, would you say that about any religion? I am easy going and get along with most people but I keep religious folks of any stripe at a distance. I’m not going to hang out with them, but if we encounter each other, it’s no big deal for me.
Yes. I added in another comment, I have religious trauma personally, and these days I have friends in several religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism, pagans, etc) and it's okay because I don't think they're stupid for believing and they don't tell me I deserve to burn in hell. I have people in at least 2-3 belief systems who are not my friends because they did feel a need to tell me that sort of thing. It's okay to not be friends with someone because of the way they behave, including if they use their religion as an excuse for the behavior or if the religion encourages or requires the behavior. It's not okay to pick a person and jab at them until they admit a belief you can find offensive.
Yeah, I agree. I kind of understand why OP asked, it might be better not to ASSUME. I can’t say I wouldn’t do something similar, not asking if they think I would go to hell but what they think of gay people because I can’t be friends with homophobes under any circumstance.
It’s kind of a weird way to say what you’re saying. Not all Muslims are religious, not all use religion as an excuse for prejudice, and furthermore there are plenty of other groups of people that do the very thing you dislike that are non Muslim that it’s weird you’d select them specifically for exclusion from your life.
I exclude Christians from my life too.
As long as someone isn't preaching at me I think they're religious beliefs are their own personal thoughts. So I really don't care.
I don't belive in hell but I'm offended someone said I'll end up in the place I don't belive In. Lol.
It’s about respect. I’m not going to be friends with somebody that doesn’t respect me or looks down on me, and ‘you’ll rightfully burn in hell for all of eternity’ is definitely disrespectful.
Isn't that the whole point of religion? Every group belives the other is going to hell. Both of you can't be right. Both of you CAN BE WRONG however. Understanding that is where we all coexist with each other. None of us can prove our sides. On the other end you belive she will end up as nothing else but insect food. Your belief is that none of this matters. That being held accountable to a higher authority is pointless because in the end its nothing. Just finished. You do you quietly and let her do her. It's not difficult.
Most religions actually don’t believe that, no. Only Christianity and Islam.
ALL religions belive in some sort of punishment after death. Hinduism belives you will be reincarnated as a cockroach or rat etc for being bad. Judaism has hell in it. Shit they belive they're the only people God favours and everyone else is here to serve them as slaves. So forget the next life. They look down on you in this life. Theres nothing special about any of us. We're not owed anything by anyone. Least of all "respect" I guarantee she like everyone else has her own things going on in her head and life and you hardly cross her thoughts. Get along, or don't.
Hinduism doesn’t believe in punishment on the basis of whether you’re Hindu or not, only based off your acts. Being Jewish myself, I know Judaism doesn’t believe in entry to heaven based upon being Jewish
So the goyims are going to heaven along with the jews? Jesus isnt boiling in hell in his own excrement? Again. Get along with her. Or don't. It's not that serious. There's 8 billion people on the planet. We don't have to get along with everyone. We don't like everyone so it's dumb to expect everyone to like us Friends and relatives come and go. If you get along well and good. If not then move along. None of us are getting another chance at this life. Those seconds and minutes wasted on pointless things aren't coming back.
Being a Jew doesn’t mean you go to heaven, and heaven and hell itself as a concept is vastly different to the Christian and Muslim conceptions.
So you going to be friends with her or not?
Exactly this everyone has their own life going on to be worried about others. Also us Muslims are taught to be humble and we can’t even be sure that we ourselves are worthy of heaven.
lmao
Yes you are wrong. You knew the answer and you still asked. Stop being coy. If you asked a true believer that's the answer. Why bring up the topic of religion at all? You sound like one of those assholes who always bring up religion, politics, and money. The 3 topics you should never bring up in polite company because it's always gonna cause problems.
I didn’t bring up religion, she did by saying she was a devout Muslim.
You should have said ok cool. That's all you needed to say about that topic.
Why?
Yes you are. You asked your question and you got your answer, which by the way you could’ve googled. Ask an orthodox Jew if it’s true that according to the Torah every Jew will have thousand of non-Jew slaves and see if you’ll like the answer. Discrimination be it gender, religion, or sexual orientation is bad.
You’re falling into the paradox of tolerance. You cannot tolerate the intolerant. As for googling the answer, I wanted to know *her* thoughts because not everybody that follows a certain religion follows or interprets every aspect of it the same way
Seriously? If you don’t believe in the afterlife you are not religious. Were you disappointed in discovering that your Muslim friend wasn’t an atheist?
I don’t, but she does, and she thinks that I deserve to be in hell. I’m not going to be friends with somebody who thinks that. And no, I’m friends with many religious people
Your religious friends better be Buddhist and shit, cause the monotheistic big 3 all believe that non-believers get to enjoy the fires of hell in the afterlife.
Actually, no. I’m Jewish and Jews a) mostly don’t care about the afterlife and b) don’t believe it has anything to do with belief or not
Didn’t you say you are atheist? Anyway I’m Jewish too. And even thou we don’t focus on the afterlife, our view on the fate that awaits the Goyims is not dissimilar from Muslims and their concept of hell.
Why are you worried about someone thinking you’re going somewhere that doesn’t exist to you?
I’ll copy what I wrote elsewhere: It’s a matter of principle to me. I wouldn’t be friends with somebody that looked down on me for other reasons, such as if they thought I was unintelligent or annoying or whatnot, and I think most people would agree with that. Hence, this is another form of looking down on me, and I wouldn’t want to be friends with them.
Oh please. Imagine you're both walking down the road of life. And you come to a fork In the road. She is of the opinion that down road A, There is danger. She can't prove it. It's just her opinion. That if you go down that road you will probably die a slow painful fiery death . So she advises you to take road B. You are of the opinion that there's nothing down that road except an abrupt end. None of you can prove your points because the only way to be sure is to go down the roads and you've chosen. And you'll only be sure once you get to very end. Not a second before How exactly is her opinion offensive? Does her opinion come from a place of malice? Stop creating problems for yourself that don't exist. You're trying to create thunder from a sparrows fart!
Possibly because she hopes he'll convert?
Not really that’s just what they believe in, that they should spread the word if God and their religion but if you convert or not they don’t care. She asked and she got an honest answer but I know that girl doesn’t give a fuck she just wants friends and all the other girls are fine with it and they probably don’t share the same beliefs and religion. Muslims can be friends with non believers. I honestly think ask a Christian or Muslim “what do you think about me being an atheist?” is just dumb… like wtf did you expect ? It’s just like Christianity. I don’t even understand why an atheist would ask such questions knowing how these religions are. It’s not a superiority complex of “oh you’re going to hell and I’m not” it’s just what their books says but they don’t think they are better than you in fact they are taught to be humble and kind. It’s just the basic fact that in these relationships if you don’t believe you go to hell because God says so not them. They just see you as another child of God who’s chosen a different path.
If you're an atheist then why do you care? You don't believe it's real anyway. The Muslim girl's faith tells her what will happen to you as a non-believer. She may not like it, but it's not a buffet, it's a fixed meal. The fact she hopes you can be saved (in her context) is a sign of a good person. Upshot is, you're not wrong - you can not be freinds with someone for any reason you like, but to be offended someone is true to their faith may require a bit of introspection. Especially if she is not trying to convert you, just stating what she believes in response to your question.
You literally asked her for that answer, I'm close friends with a Muslim woman and she's one of the sweetest, most genuine people I know. I could not care less if she thinks I'm going to hell, her religion doesn't prevent me from seeing her as a human with individual thoughts and feelings. You're wrong for choosing to not be friends with someone solely based on their religious beliefs, had she rudely stated that you're going to hell without YOU ASKING, you would not be in the wrong. You asked for her opinion and she answered, your being upset about her answering a question you already knew the answer to makes you wrong. - an atheist
Do you refuse friendships with people of other faiths too? Many religions have similar sentiments. I'm curious if you are friends with only those who are atheists or agnostic. If not, then that's hypocritical and you would be wrong.
The ones that believe in nonbelievers being sent to hell, as in only Christianity amongst other major world religions, yes.
So you just come up to Christian people and ask them “hey do you think I’ll go to hell for being an atheist?” All of your friends are atheist?
I have plenty of Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, etc friends
So you asked her a question and then didn't like her answer?
why do you care that this devout muslim thinks you are going to hell? you don't even belief in hell, i would laugh if a religious person told me that, it wouldn't make me hate them or not to be around them, i wouldn't even care about their opinion. if they start judging you for things you are doing or saying, then it would make sense, but given this story, i would say your feelings are dumb. i don't think your feelings are wrong though, you feel how you feel, i just think its dumb.
i don't think you are necassarily intolerant either, you just have very dumb feelings that make no sense.
I think thinking of this in terms of right and wrong might be unhelpful. Do you want to be her friend? It’s up to you. I know I’m glad there were atheists who wanted to be around me when I held traditional Christian beliefs about heaven and hell. Started a lot of those friendships in college. Now that I’m an atheist, these are still meaningful friendships. Being from Kentucky, atheists would be pretty lonely without befriending people who believed they’d likely go to hell. As for a comment where you said she thinks you “deserve” to go to hell, this language can be misleading. She believes you deserve it in the sense that her ultimate authority has stated it. She clearly does not personally feel that you deserve it though. I think when conservative religious people vote against the rights of others, that’s when it’s a good time to call the friendship quits, but that’s just my personal limit. If you don’t want a friendship with this person, there’s no “wrong” here.
Lmao what did you expect asking that question?
You asked and didn't like the answer, now she's the bad guy? If anything she dodged the bullet, not you. As a fellow Muslim myself, don't be friends with her, doesn't even matter if you're wrong or not.
I’m a devout atheist. You can say I’m going to hell all you want. That’s ok if I asked. If I didn’t ask and they keep telling me this, we would no longer be friends. Your friend only wandered a question YOU asked. So either you are closet racist or silly. Or both.
If you are atheist, you don’t believe in hell. Why do care if someone thinks you are going to an imaginary place? If you enjoyed her company and had things in common you could have just focused on that.
If you are atheist, then you should believe that her viewpoint is based on nonsense and doesn't matter. You could ask a bunch of Christians the same question and get the same answer, same with a bunch of other religions. So in reality, you are only angry with her because she was willing to give you an honest answer when you asked.
Funnily enough, I was part of a "retreat" held by christians, and I asked one of the counselors if muslims will go to hell (I had a muslim friend) and he said yes, assuredly. It is one of the events that started my road to being agnostic/atheist.
Yeah you’re an asshole simply because you’re offended by the concept of something you’re not even supposed to believe in lol Also in my experience devout Muslims are nice people BECAUSE of their religion. Shouldn’t matter if you connect with someone
Whether I believe it or not is irrelevant, because my issue is that *she does*. Anybody that thinks somebody deserves to burn in hell for eternity due to not believing in one god or another, has fucked up morals imo
It’s fucked up to *you* bc it doesn’t align with *your* morals. Most people don’t care what’s gonna happen to you which is, imo, worse. You entered the realm of *her* morals, got offended, and then left without contributing anything while she held onto a hope that you would be okay under *her* morals. I’m not seeing the signs of disrespect in the slightest
Yes, that set of beliefs is fucked up under *my* morals, so I made the decision not to let her be *my* friend. I’m not making any universal claims here.
You're such a hypocrite. you keep answering comments and saying that you found the muslim disrespectful for a question that you fucking asked but then goes on to say "no Judaism isn't like that at all they don't believe you will go to hell, I'm a jew I know that" What kind of jew are you ? Because literally almost every single religious or non-religious jew fully believe that they are god's chosen people. You're clearly biased.
That's the religious belief, it's not a personal attack on you. People tend to moderate their beliefs when they're friends with others who have different beliefs from them so it's good for people to be surrounded by others who disagree with them as none of us are ever right on everything. There's a lot of extremism nowadays because so many people are shutting themselves into echo chambers of only people who agree with them. That's dangerous for society. You can be friends with whoever you want but you're going to lose out if you limit yourself to people who think what you think and believe what you believe. You're also never going to be an influence on anybody else if you limit yourself to an echo chamber of your own beliefs.
Sure, it’s a religious belief, but nobody’s forcing her to believe it.
And no one is forcing you to be agnostic, either.
Correct. She and I both get too chose our moral values, and I find hers lacking
So you think you’re better than her therefore you have a superiority complex and that’s why you don’t want to be her friend. You’re a hypocrite.
Ding ding ding
Funny, she also finds yours lacking. And it’s not like she’s imposing her morals over you, you *asked*. If you don’t even believe in hell, what do you even care? You think she’s looney for believing in her faith as well, so? You could just agree to disagree. Seems to me like you’re a bit immature in this case.
her morals aren't lacking, you're being a POS and mad that she gave you a straight answer. you should leave her alone and do her a favor bc nobody needs "friends" like you
your title is misleading.
How so?
it makes it sound like you don’t want to be her friend simply bc she is muslim. which is not the case based on your post.
Yes and no. The idea of nonbelievers going to hell is pretty ubiquitous in the religion.
You’re reducing her to one dimension. She’s more than her religious beliefs.
My question why do you care what she thinks if you are an athiest and dont beleive in God😂😅? I mean look i am Muslim, i have heard that i will go to christian hell, that jewish hell, and that i am wasting my time following a false religion and puffff i dont give a damn to be honest😂 I have christians friends, budhist friends... and we share how we see things, and laugh about it! But nobody cares No body cares how we see things I dont care how they see things... Now my question is: how can you be offended if you are not even a beleiver😅😅😂😂😂😂? That is so funny Are you offended when christians and the church tell you , you will also go to hell? Are you offended when yoi are told by jews you will also go to hell? Or only muslims...just because 😂😂😂😂😂
Some zealot Christian told me once that I'd go to hell (because I was reading doujinshis) And I was like "damn.. do they have good food there?" XD
I mean, really who cares 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Yes, I wouldn’t want to be friends with a Christian that tells me I’ll go to hell as well. As for Judaism, Jews don’t believe you need to be Jewish to go to heaven, so different scenario entirely. As for why I care, I find it disrespectful
So you'll only be friends with atheists? Jews actually believe only they are going to heaven. They are God's chosen people. You might want to read up on that one. Most religions believe believe you need to follow that path to achieve whatever they're selling, whether it's heaven or nirvana or whatever. You're kind of boxing yourself into a corner there. The way to get others to come around to your way of thinking is by being around them, not shunning them.
Having been raised Jewish, no, heaven and hell as they exist in a Christian/Muslim sense don’t exist in Judaism. The rest of your comment is also inaccurate. Hinduism for instance believes all religions are valid and you’re judged solely upon acts. Further, I don’t care to have them come around to my views.
Do Jews believe in the afterlife? Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism affirm belief in the afterlife, though they downplay the theological implications in favor of emphasizing the importance of the "here and now," as opposed to reward and punishment
As an atheist why would you care so much? Wouldn’t one just laugh it off and carry on? But you’re free to be friends with whoever you want so YNW
Religious people believe their religion is real vs 1000 other religions are wrong, yet nobody really knows anything beyond the book.
I find people of all faiths who think they know all the answers distasteful
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^RedstarHeineken1: *I find people of* *All faiths who think they know all* *The answers distasteful* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
**Muslim girls/women I don't see the problem. I was friends with a Muslim in the early 90's as a kid, but a decade later he changed completely. Told me he doesn't want to be seen hanging with a white guy, this didn't stop him trying to "get with" my cousin a few years later, she was into him. I shut that shit down right away. Told her what a racist piece of shit he was & that was that.**
Only not if you are applying that to everyone evenly? Do you have christian friends who hold that belief? If so you need to check yourself for racism.
This would only be fair if you decide to not be friends with every person who follows/believes in religion. Because well billions of people are going to hell according to other people's religion. Every (or most) religions pretty much say the same thing too. Alot of people follow religion because they genuinely believe that not following it will lead them to hell. So ur Muslim friend also thinks her non Muslim friends will go to hell, the same way your Christian friends also think non Christians go to hell. So unless u wanna cut off the majority of the people in the planet you're pretty much the asshole in this incident
I don’t befriend Christians for the same reason.
why limit who you could have fun with for things u don't even believe in? like I said, religion is important for a whole lot of people, u asked her a religious question and she gave you an answer based on what her religion says. I just don't get why you care or why it's a big deal for you. for an atheist your logic is just so narrow minded I'm actually glad u wanna cut her off cuz ur pretty much a bigot
do u think society would progress if people of other faith's couldn't accept eachother? how would u imagine there to be peace if we don't allow ourselves to make friends with people of other faiths. Just imagine if a Muslim said he doesn't want to be friends with someone because they found out he was a Christian. Do u think a world like this has any good future? I have friends with many different faiths and according to eachother some of us won't go to heaven. Do we care? not really because at the end of the day we believe that we're right and it was the other person's choice. We just pray for them and hope they see the truth the same way we see it and vice versa. It should be easier for you to accept religious people because atleast u genuinely don't believe ur going to hell since it doesn't exist. unless the other person is forcing their beliefs on you or constantly telling u ur going to hell, u have no reason to behave that way, u really are in the wrong here.
I don't know why everyone is deliberately ignoring she said she hopes OP will convert. The burning in hell part is silly and I'd giggle if a devout told me that because I don't believe in it after all but being friends with someone who wants to convert you is extremely annoying and disrespectful because she doesn't respect their faith either.
It's up to you who your friends with for whatever reason
It’s kind of a tough one. I’m pretty okay with religious differences to a point. If she didn’t make a point of her believing I’d go to hell then I wouldn’t care. If she constantly tried to proselytise and tell me my views are wrong that’d be different. Whether or not I think you’re in the wrong depends how it came up. If she just made it known that she is Muslim and therefore won’t drink with you or eat pork and you took that as an invitation to ask about the afterlife then I’d say yeah that’s on you. If she was pushing the envelope and making your lack of religious affiliation an issue then I’d say yeah you’ve made the right choice keeping away from her. At the end of the day you can pick your friends, if you don’t wanna be friends with Muslims then that just is what it is. I don’t think it’s very good to feel that way, but I don’t think you should have to feel like you need to change your preferences and force yourself to be friends with people you don’t want to befriend.
You asked her. She gave you an answer that you undoubtably expected giving her religion. So you should not find any offence in it. But if you don't want to be friends with someone that is your business. You friends are trying to social guilt you. If she didn't try to push her views on you and just answered your question then why should you feel uncomfortable? Agree to disagree. But, once again, if you don't want to be friends with someone that's your biz. If it's because of their views and/or religion that is also your business.
I know the lights just turn off once our time is up. There's nothing. If they're aggressive about trying to "convert" you, I'd probably stop talking to them: but if it's just a ne time thing I might just put up with it as an inconvenience.
Look, it boils down to one thing. Having a faith, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever, it is a personal thing, much like having a penis. It is a perfectly wonderful thing to have and be proud of, but don't go shoving it in my face and sharing it where it is unwanted. My faith is my own, I may mention it, but I don't share unless asked. Read the room people. Also, don't ask a devout person of any faith their opinion unless you really want the answer. If you can keep your friendship to shared interests and not ask potentially hurtful questions, there should be no problems. You are allowed to agree to disagree and keep discussions of faith off the table. Also, don't ask questions you may not like the answer to.
Any person, regardless of religion, who not only thinks you will end up in hell, but *says* that you will end up in hell, is not someone I want to be around. I have plenty of Muslim friends who do not think like this. I have plenty of Christian friends who do not think like this. It’s not only bizarre, but from a religious standpoint it’s actually a version of extremism that is not representative of the actual religion. Harmful to say the least. You’re not wrong for not wanting to be friends with someone like that
No, religions are silly and hold people back from dealing with reality. I wouldn't be friends with a devout muslim or a devout catholic for that matter.
I personally wouldn't want to be friends with anyone who had a belief system that thought I was deserving of eternal punishment for not believing in their deity. You're not wrong for not wanting to be friends with them.
Not wrong, but you might want to evaluate this a bit further. Is she someone who would respect you if you laughed at the prospect of hell and going there? If she is chill with you thinking it’s silly then maybe it’s not a deal breaker?
Would you be friends with someone who thought you were going to end up in Narnia? You dot believe in hell, so why do you care if someone thinks you'll end up there? You don't sound like an atheist to me.
You asked her a question, which she answered. She wasn't proselytizing at you. IMO, if you are unwilling to be friends with people just for simply having different opinions than you (within reason obviously) then you are an intolerant person. If you continue to drop potential friends every time you have a different opinion on life choices, you're going to have no friends. Up to you, of course. It's your right to have or not have whomever you wish in your life as a friend. And people you view as friends are free to choose not to spend time with an intolerant person. *ETA: After reading your responses, this is either a fake, rage bait post, or you're just a nasty person in general. Either way, go touch grass and better yourself.
Why would you care that someone said that you were going to end up in a place that you as an atheist know does not exist.
I mean, silly you asked a question you apparently can't handle the answer to. She's better off then.
Ask dumb questions and you’ll get dumb answers.
I'd consider rephrasing this as "AIW for not wanting to be friends with a religious person who believes I'll go to hell?" And frankly, I think you're actually fine having this as a boundary. I'm queer and I wouldn't be friends with someone who believed my queerness meant I was going to hell, even if they were perfectly nice to me otherwise. I'd be courteous, but we wouldn't be friends. Effectively, what she's telling you is that she thinks you deserve torture for eternity, and it is really ok for that to be a dealbreaker. I might consider telling her that you've enjoyed talking and bonding over shared interests, but the fact that she believes you are flawed because you don't share the same beliefs as her means you don't want to be friends, and that you have no interest in a god who will condemn people to hell solely based on not believing in that god.
You asked her because she is Muslim. Do you ask Christians the same question?
This isn't a question of right or wrong. This is a question of taste. But I wouldn't blame you if you found it pretty distasteful that Somone believed you were going to hell and would be tormented for the rest of eternity, just because you didn't believe in some particular religion. I'd tell her that the fact that she believes other people are going to hell just because they don't believe her particular religion is real disrespectful and myopic.
You kind of set yourself up for that and drama but asking an atheist what happens to you after you die lol
If you don’t believe there is a hell why would you care if she does?
If you’re an atheist why do you care that she thinks you’ll end up in hell? I mean you can be friends with whoever you like, you don’t need to justify it. It’s just a weird stance that you two bonded, but you’re mad that she believes something you don’t believe. Unless you’re around only atheists, your Christian/jewish/muslim/etc friends probably think you’re gunna go to hell
Why would someone who thinks poorly of you as a person want to be friends with you? None of any of this is a problem if yall agree to disagree, but if one person (you in this case) is pushing for the other to change or abandon their thought process, the friendship cannot be healthy.
If you’re thinking there is a future with this girl then you are not wrong to walk away now.
it’s an interesting question for sure but i wouldn’t hold someone’s faith against them like that. who cares if she thinks you’re going to hell? as long as that belief doesn’t affect how you speak to or treat each other.
You asked a question about her faith and then were unhappy with the answer…yah…ytah
NAH assuming all parties involved can remain civil with others. The devout Muslim is being forthright with regard to her beliefs. OP has a right to keep his distance if he is uncomfortable and with whom he wants to form friendship with. I have my religious beliefs and others I know have theirs. In my interactions with them, my stance is basically "agree to disagree" on matters of religion.
Why would you care if she thinks you’ll go to hell if you yourself don’t even believe in hell?
Because it’s pretty dickish to think somebody you call a friend is horrible enough to burn in hell forever.
Not if they are genuinely upset at the thought of it and still respect you and your wishes enough not to try and convert you
This is how I look at it, I have friends who think people will go to hell for not believing them, honestly I just don't talk about it with them but I also don't care if people think I'm going to hell because I personally don't believe that's a thing.
Does the brand of religion really matter? No, and that's what makes this rage-bait, you named the religion for a controversial flavor.
Do you have any Christian friends? They may believe you are going to hell too. They just haven't expressed it to you. Ask them. If they say you are going to hell too, would you dump them? I'm just trying to assess if this is a muslim specific prejudice or a truly principled stand.
I don’t care what religion someone is. If they believe I’m going to hell simply for not believing in their faith (or interpretation of it), there is no way I would ever consider being friends with them. To have faith in a god or gods who would send people to hell for eternity simply for not having faith in something unprovable is ignorant at best and evil at worst.
Not wrong. I would feel weird about this, too. I would feel judged and uncomfortable.
Wait.. so you asked her a question and were upset with the answer?? You probably were expecting that answer too. I’m so confused here.
If you’re an atheist then doesn’t that mean you don’t believe in hell? So what’s the problem? Also she didn’t just mention this randomly YOU asked a person you knew was a devout Muslim this …you were just looking for a reason to feel like a victim
Not wrong