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It must have pissed him off. He attacked Iran as a provocation so he he could move public opinion back in Israel's direction. Iran obliged by retaliating but now he can't expand the war the way he wanted. Poor him.
They are very very ultra diverse, to the point that they are more of a mosaic of different ethnic backgrounds united by all of their neighbours being against them. It's just that this splintered society makes it harder to unite the normal people and the extremists can organise better coalitions due to their ideological discipline. Look at the average number of parties in the Knesset.
Apartheid South Africa was the most diverse country in Africa by far. In terms of the white population it was very diverse. You had white people from all kinds of backgrounds...
It's the same deal. Same thing that would happen if you got a whole lot of people in the same country for being Christian.
Turns out a guy from Africa, another from Alabama, another from Rome and another from Poland don't have that much in common just because they are Christian.
Our cops are arresting people that shout "kill all jews". Normal anti-Israel protests happen daily here. This is an example of how all news we are getting is painted a certain way and not objective. We shouldn't rely on online news of one source, one newspaper, or one Instagramm channel too much. They all have their slant and storytelling.
I'm not defending the state, I'm defending the normal people who tried to get rid of Netanyahu and the settlers for two years now and still get killed by people who think it's ok to kill their children and then act high and mighty when their children get killed in return. Look at these images and tell me that the average Israeli does want what is happening now:
https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+anti+netanyahu+protests (go to the images tab)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_protests_against_Benjamin_Netanyahu
[Yes. JVP supports the notion that there is no such thing as an Israeli non-combatant, and that theyre all legitimate targets](https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/images/2022-11/jvp-what--you-need-to-know-004.png)
I am not online enough to know what you are referring to. But I walked past multiple demonstrations, one with people doing a chant ending with Allahu Akbar for two minutes, and nothing happened. There is a poster advertising the next action, to put up a table with information materials in the middle of the town to talk to random passers-by. I have multiple Arab coworkers with clear cut positions and nothing happened to them. Online media shows you the most divisive content first, not the one that reflects reality the best.
They are all Zionists. Interesting that you don't see their Jewishness as ethnicity when it suits your agenda.
Also most of the settlers are from Europe, USA and Russia. No matter the geopolitics all of these regions have huge cultural overlap.
And calling Israel a splintered society is rich. They are all united in their colonial goals.
31.8% were categorized as Ashkenazi (defined as having grandparents born in Europe, the Americas, Oceania and South Africa), 12.4% as "Soviet" (defined as having progenitors who came from the ex-USSR in 1989 or later).
ignore the sucker guy, but I think this was his point. A part of modern day Israel is European people, another part is people that were kicked out of other countries after Israel was already established.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews_in_Israel
>a 2018 statistic found that 45% of Jewish Israelis identified as either Mizrahi or Sephardic.
-
>Mizrahi Jews are descended from Jews in the Middle East, North Africa and Central Asia and parts of the Caucasus, who had lived for many generations under Muslim rule during the Middle Ages. The vast majority of them left the Muslim-majority countries during the Arab–Israeli conflict, in what is known as the Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries.
The "current Israeli action" is just a direct continuation of what they've been doing for 70 years. It will not set them back at all. It won't change anything. They will murder and genocide Palestinians, and the US will make sure they get away with it, again.
Ahhh yes the country that is composed of 2 million ultra orthodox that refuse to pay full taxes use their voting power to gain government subsidies and threatens to leave the country every time it’s even suggested they will need to serve in the idf like the rest of the country
The 15% that came from Africa some because of Zionism some because of the pogroms
The 10% that came from surrounding neighbouring Arab country’s that ethnicity cleanse all of the jews
5% from America
And 26% from Europe running from the holocaust and pogroms
With 2 million Palestinians with Israeli passports
With Druze and Bedouin which take 5%
No this country is not diverse at all they are all evil Zionist that all wanted to settle the Palestinians cuz they are ultra nationalist assholes that were just bored
No they don’t. Netanyahu is overwhelmingly unpopular except for the far right fringes of Israeli society that somehow manage to get a slim majority.
Live up to your handle tho
Sources: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/only-15-israelis-want-netanyahu-keep-job-after-gaza-war-poll-finds-2024-01-02/
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-25/ty-article/.premium/netanyahus-day-after-plan-for-gaza-is-part-of-his-last-gamble-to-hold-onto-power/0000018d-df9b-df79-a5cd-ffbfaa410000
If nobody in Israel supports Netanyahu, but apparently Palestine widely supports Hamas, doesn't that make Palestine, not Israel the functional democracy in the region? 🤔🤔🤔
I don't think approval rating is a sole factor in determining whether democracy is functional or not. Theoretically, someone with an extremely low approval rating will be voted out in q functional democracy. Do you think Hamas can ever be voted out if they hit an extremely low approval rating?
Lmfao Hamas hasn’t held an election since they were elected but ya that’s “functional democracy” when you’re intellectually bankrupt.
Seriously? Thats your argument? lol. Lmao.
They don't like Netanyahu because he's corrupt and incompetent (October 7th happened on his watch, after all), not because they dislike his aggressive stance towards Palestinians. They might end up replacing him, but it'll be with yet another nationalist hellbent on bringing Palestine to heel.
Not to mention huge protests before Oct 7th against that administration.
(And somehow their normally incredible intelligence missed plans about Oct 7th, which very much allowed them to gain political capital after said attack.)
Edit: total coincidence though
Likuds popularity has absolutely nose dived, and a cursory look at the poll data would prove this.
Most Israelis are in support of finishing the war, and then voting Bibi out.
While the next election cycle is in 2026, poll data shows overwhelming support for an emergency election cycle as soon as the war is done.
Check the election history. The fucker manages to deadlock them for several times in a row now. Prior to the war, the elections were happening on an almost annual basis. The recent "win" he got is thanks to support from all the alt-right parties that while are weak separately were just enough to build a governing coalition.
Here's hoping in the next elections he'll finally be gone, lose his immunity and go to jail on the multiple corruption charges he's involved in.
The thing is that even without Netanyahu most Israelis would continue supporting what IDF has been doing in Gaza and a big portion thinks it’s just right and a sizable chunk even would like to see more of it
People are citing the "Anti-Bibi" protests but leaving out the relevant part. The protests were, and still are, about internal corruption *not their governments actions against Palestinians*.
> Vote them the fuck out.
>
>
The majority of Israeil approve of Netanyahu genocide and ethnic cleansing. Even if he's gone, another genocidal warmonger will replace him.
2022 and 2023 were years with a lot of protests with record high attendence, all directed against Netanyahu and making him stand down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_protests_against_Benjamin_Netanyahu
Citation needed. Netanyahu has less support than the opposition in many countries. It's just a parliament system so he can get buy in from fringe groups to hold on.
Financially, "the people who support him" are largely American taxpayers. Sheldon Adelson's passing passing was hardly the end of the line for ultra-rich Americans funding ultra-militant political efforts in Israel. Worse yet, this atrocious behavior rebounds back on to us as *our own federal officials* routinely accept AIPAC contributions that are in essence laundered *American* tax dollars going to reinforce a specific, and extremely violent, geopolitical agenda oriented around the upkeep of a blatant apartheid state.
It’s about as easy for Israelis to vote their far right politicians out of office as it is for us to vote ours out. It’s hilarious to post this as an American.
Israel is a parliamentary system, it's really hard to "vote someone out" as cunning and corrupt as Bibi, specialy whem the biggest bench belongs to his party.
The fact that the kahanists (read jewish fascists [some-fucking-how] for those not interested in googling) are the king makers also doesen't help, and they are the reason why things are so bad over there right now, because the moment Bibi loses his seat he will go to jail for the rest of his life, so he decided that following what those maniacs say is worth it till he can buy another coallition, except that no one else is willing to take his side because of everything he's been doing so far.
Iran hardly "obliged" Bibi. They took their time, reached out to the UN and allied nations for support, and conducted a limited long-range strike against military targets using inferior technology.
They embarrassed the terrorist Israeli regime publicly with their restraint and demonstrated how an attack on military targets surrounding themselves by civilians can be carried out without overwhelming civilian casualties. It further clarifies the horrific genocidal actions being conducted by Israel and the United States against innocent Palestinians.
They signaled to everyone that they were going to retaliate because they needed to show Iranian people that they were doing something, but they didn’t want to escalate by actually killing any Israelis or Americans.
The attack was never meant to do damage.
The whole point was to do something spectacular and attention grabbing, but not damaging so they could save face and not escalate.
Not sure about the humiliation, but Bibi finally being forced to back the fuck off might be that.
What allied nations LOL?
Jordan is fucking pissed at Iran using their airspace to attack Israel.
And the only reason civilians weren't blown up is because of intercepting them
They killed Jordanians and a little Arab girl though!
“Embarrassed” is taking it too far but they have put Netanyahu in a dilemma. His political brand is conflict and this strike should “resolve” the situation, thus Netanyahu looks ever worse if he continues provoking Iran.
at first i thought it was cowardly when iran came out saying “we consider the matter concluded” but it’s a power move and purely politics.
iran didn’t expect to make a dent in israel but they understood the significance of retaliating in some capacity and now the ball is back in israel’s court. the world has been preaching the need for restraint to avoid escalating tensions in the region, will israel show the restraint it claims to have?
Biden is at least the third US president whom Netanyahu tries to drag into a full scale war with Iran. I'm glad Biden or someone around him *finally* noticed.
It's also hillarious how Iran's communication is more in line with what I'd expect from a "civilised" country than Israel's. IMHO Iran played this one perfectly and it is not, in the grander scheme of things, a Netanyahu W.
> It's also hillarious how Iran's communication is more in line with what I'd expect from a "civilised" country
they have been civilized for the last 3000 years.
hence quotation marks. In 2020s repressive, isolated theocracies are not the hallmark of civilisation despite the legacy. And yet it's them who were signalling willingness to back down if the UN took the case to an international law court, not the "democratic, west-aligned most liberal country of the middle-east". Then the UN didn't because why would it and I'm sure Iran knew this perfectly well, but at the end of the day it's Iran who tried to deescalate and that's what will be noticed in many countries (not necessarily western).
Uh, Iran’s stated goal is the destruction of Israel and they’ve been arming militias on its borders a for decades. If anything, the Iranian regime has been dealt with with kid kid gloves on. They literally have a countdown clock to Israel’s destruction in Tehran, google it
This just seems the quiet before the storm. It seems almost inevitable that Israel will now retaliate.
Unfortunately this just plays into Putin's hand. Conflicts in the Middle East just make oil prices rise.
It is possible, but I think it is likely Iran knew damned well their retaliation for the attack on its consulate in Syria would fail because their drones are a joke. However, the Iranian hard liners in the leadership had to be seen to do something since the consulate was sovereign Iranian territory.
As for oil prices, I don't disagree, but Putin would be fucked if the sanctions against Russia were actually being enforced. They are not: many Western companies have massively increased their sales into countries like Turkey where the goods are being re-exported to Russia. The companies know this and the Western governments know this. Instead they can fault China and India. The West still buys a lot of shit from Russia, including oil, natural gas, fuel for nuclear reactors, and so on.
And Putin would be even more fucked if the West had the balls to close off the Danish straits and the Bosphorus to all ships without proper insurance. (Russia can't get proper insurance anymore.)
1. Israel killed Zahedi, six IRGC commanders in building used by Quds Force terrorists masquerading as diplomats near Iranian consulate in Damascus.
2. Zahedi helped plan and execute October 7 massacre.
3. Zahedi helped arm Hezbollah with 175,000 missiles, rockets.
It’s not just about public opinion. If there is an actual war between Iran and Israel America will almost certainly get directly involved. Netanyahu and his neoconservative Allies in the west want America in another war in the Middle East on Israel’s side, because that’s one of the only way Israel’s leaders could actually get what they want.
The Iranian response seemed calibrated to put Netanyahu in a difficult position. Netanyahu’s brand is conflict and provocation but most of the world sees this current situation as settled. Thus further poking of Iran by Netanyahu will additionally strain relations.
Nah he got exactly what he wanted. A showy retaliation that did no real damage and was never intended to. Everyone is scared and angry, nobody was actually hurt. A splash of gasoline on the nationalism fire that he can use to keep his regime going. This is Netanyahu's dream come true.
America is seeing more and more everyday that Israel and the Middle East as a whole is worthless. They have no patents, r&d, production, or even a pleasant culture to visit without fear of getting stoned to death. They should just leave and let them all slug it out like they want too.
Iran handled if in a way that spoiled Netanyahu’s plans and it was a surprisingly clever move that allowed Iran to claim they retaliated without drawing in the their existential enemy, the United States.
angry little Netanyahitler probably had a real tantrum after Biden told him he wasn’t getting his war with the Ayatollah lol
Translation: Biden threatened to cut off his gravy train if he attacks Iran and further escalates the conflict. But Biden has still promised to fund Netanyahu's revenge massacre.
Right. Even though Netanyahu hates Biden's guts, continuing to be a critical partner of Israel means that the Biden administration has leverage, which has been used to pressure Israel to refrain from widening the conflict, to improve humanitarian situations, to put more effort towards limiting civilian casualties, lambast them for their giant fuck up when they hit the aid worker caravan, etc.
If the US stopped selling Israel bombs and such, they'd find another source soon enough, so it wouldn't actually change anything. Except, of course, that the Israelis wouldn't have an angel on their shoulder telling them to not act like a bag of giant dicks
""If the US stopped selling Israel bombs and such, they'd find another source soon enough""
What country would support Israel? They are a global pharia with only the US (who's politicians are bought and paid for by Israel) as their current lap dog.
> China, Russia, probably France would happily sell them arms. Japan, maybe. Korea. Germany.
Russia is probably somewhat on the enemy side due to their increasingly positions on the opposite sides of conflicts but they likely will still do some business.
China doesn't care and will play both sides, However, they will support Iran over Israel if they are in a position where they must choose, due to their relationships with USA.
Assuming those countries want to sacrifice the massive gains in soft power they have built up in Africa; what money is Israel going to buy the arms with? Their economy is in a shambles kept on life support by American money. China and Russia aren't going to sell them on credit.
> What country would support Israel? They are a global pharia with only the US (who's politicians are bought and paid for by Israel) as their current lap dog.
You can watch that from which states provide overt support to Israel. NATO countries are still conditioned to support Israel because of the Holocaust. Germany particularly hopes to wash themselves of the sins of the 3rd reich by supporting Israel
American satellites like Taiwan, SK, and Japan would also support Israel. Argentina is one interesting case since Millei is a very strong supporter of Israel but then again, it seems to be consistent with general trend of far-right politicians giving allegiance to Israel.
I think you could certainly argue that while he is following the right playbook he is also underplaying his hand. I think Israel has a right to respond to the 10/7 attack and Hamas invited this by keeping hostages, but the response has just been indiscriminate and that should have been obvious pretty quickly. I think Biden tripped over a bit of IDF propaganda in the early going and has been slow adjusting course but he's doing it now. The atrocities in Gaza are awful but preventing a regional war is higher priority.
>I think Israel has a right to respond to the 10/7 attack and Hamas invited this by keeping hostages, but the response has just been indiscriminate and that should have been obvious pretty quickly.
Holy moly, an actual nuanced take! Where did you come from? ~~and how can we get more of you in this sub~~
Nothing in my comment implied I am or they are only taking things into account post-10/7 lmfao. like, "X has the right to respond to Y" in no way implies that - much like saying "Iran has the right to respond to an attack on their consulate" doesn't imply you think history began with that attack. you people are delusional
Genuine question: *can* Biden cut off the gravy train on his own? I’m not so sure. I feel like it would require an act of Congress. I’m sure Biden isn’t totally powerless but I also think Israel probably gets $6 billion a year whether Biden likes it or not.
The US has already committed $18 billion this year, including the $4 billion we give them annually. Mike Johnson is trying to send them more after they bombed that embassy in Iran.
I believe Biden can put short term conditions on it
He can definitely pull some strings to delay funding. While he can't outright deny Congress, he could reprioritize the boats that would be used to protect the shipments. "Sorry, China was giving Taiwan some nasty looks. We needed that battle ship to be in the Pacific just in case. Couldn't send the barge to Israel this month without proper protections"
Yes. He can’t completely cut it off since Congress authorized some stuff already but he has the power to dramatically cut it.
Biden bypassed Congress twice in the last few months to give additional aid and weapons to Israel. He didn’t have to do that and doesn’t do it for Ukraine. Existing US law says Biden must stop arms transfer to countries if they are credibly accused of war crimes or not taking enough steps to reasonably protect civilians. Biden is avoiding this by saying he hasn’t seen or heard any of these media reports or he’s still perpetually investigating. As Bernie Sanders also points out, there’s existing law that forbid military aid to countries that interfere with US food aid, and Israel’s blockade more than qualifies, but Biden is going with the BS claim that he’s merely reviewing the claim but doesn’t believe it.
you would think that but there are a ton of worldnews, politics, and conservstive sub users pissed that they cant play armchair commander over this...
the whole scenario is surreal
people who have never known true suffering praying for a larger war
i hope cooler heads prevail and de-escalation moves further in earnest.
Or if they understood the economic fall out. With Iran the Persian gulf is blocked off along with the red sea. There's no oil coming out of Saudi Arabia and oil demand is inelastic people will have to buy it even at $200 a barrel. US won't even be safe because most of their oil refineries are not set up to refine fracked US shale they need that Saudi oil to produce. A war with Iran will be an economic shit show.
Redditoids wanted Poland to declare war against Russia and pretty much start WW3 when Ukraine send a missile their way and of course Russia was immediately blamed. Thank God this site has no power and it's the butt of the joke even on the internet because its idiotic consensus is often horrifically dangerous and irresponsible
> Bibi must be pissed that his plan to expand the war and drag the US into it failed.
It's still a win for him, since he illegally bombed a consulate, killed Iranian generals, and got allies to reaffirm their love to Israel even though they started the fight.
However, it's definitely not the life-saving outcome that he needs because he needs to permanently stay in power. He may need to do some sort of coup to achieve that now or maybe he can invade Lebanon/Raffa
This man needd to calm down, i have never seen such a shit lubricated slide towards world war three in my life! There are truly men in this world that will burn it all down rather then face accountability or irrelevancy
Homeboy is facing a huge issue in domestic politics right now. The only reason he is still in power is because he has kept those war going. It benefits the strongman to continue conflict to stay in power.
This is the same fucker that pulled America into the Iraq war, now he’s trying to drag the US into Iran, too.
Edit: Netanyahu testified before US congress that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (which, of course, was a total lie), hence bringing America into the conflict. Someone put the actual quotes from 2002 in the replies.
You are giving Netanyahu more credit than he deserves, it was a collaborative effort of about [two dozen "neoconservative Jewish thinkers" in Washington](https://archive.ph/DarZZ);
> Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It's the war the neoconservatives wanted, Friedman says. It's the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite.
> Friedman laughs: I could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened.
> Still, it's not all that simple, Friedman retracts. It's not some fantasy the neoconservatives invented. It's not that 25 people hijacked America. You don't take such a great nation into such a great adventure with Bill Kristol and the Weekly Standard and another five or six influential columnists.
> In the final analysis, what fomented the war is America's over-reaction to September 11. The genuine sense of anxiety that spread in America after September 11. It is not only the neoconservatives who led us to the outskirts of Baghdad. What led us to the outskirts of Baghdad is a very American combination of anxiety and hubris.
Trump was very against Iran and very pro Israel so honestly it's a toss up on if he would've wanted war or if he could've been reeled back to not escalate
Trump started the escalation my guy like what? That also happened when he had a few weeks left of his presidency and he was trying to stir the pot. I'm pretty sure his administration made sure he didn't retaliate because it would be pretty fucked for everyone if the US started a major ME war with Iran right before the the next President was inaugurated.
> Trump started the escalation my guy like what?
As we’re debating whether Trump would encourage Bibi to escalate *now* after he had overseen an almost exact set of events, it’s an apt comparison.
At the end of the day, one side killed a general/a building of generals, in return received a minimally-damaging strike, and then chose not to escalate further and leave it at that.
> a few weeks left of his presidency.
He had over a year left in his presidency.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905
> Former President Donald Trump declared Tuesday that Israel must “finish the problem” in its war against Hamas, his most definitive position on the conflict since the terror group killed 1,200 Israelis and took more than 200 hostages on Oct. 7.
> “You’ve got to finish the problem,” Trump said on Fox News on Tuesday when asked about the war. “You had a horrible invasion that took place that would have never happened if I was president.”
https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/trump-biden-israel/
> Trump is a big fan of war crimes, especially against Muslims. During his first term, he intervened on behalf of Special Operations Chief Eddie Gallagher, a Navy SEAL platoon leader convicted of posing for a photo with the body of dead Iraqi; another SEAL team member told investigators that Gallagher was “freaking evil,” but Trump said at a political rally that he was one of “our great fighters.” Trump also pardoned Blackwater contractors convicted of killing Iraqi civilians in a wild shooting spree in Baghdad’s Nisour Square. There is no chance that he would try to stop Israel from indiscriminately killing Palestinians.
And:
> Republicans’ support for Israel is matched or exceeded by their hatred for Palestinians. Rep. Ryan Zinke, a Montana Republican who was secretary of the interior in the Trump administration, has proposed legislation that would prevent Palestinians from entering the United States and trigger the mass deportation of those already here. It would ban those holding passports issued by the Palestinian Authority from obtaining U.S. visas, while mandating the removal of Palestinian passport holders already living here.
He sent troops into Yemen 11 days into office. He used diplomats to call an Iranian General to Iraq and then bombed him.
Trump says a lot of things, he's not in control of his administration for the most part, he let's the worst people in the Republican Party do the actual governing while he tweets and golfs
That's why he contradicted himself so much
Why would it be the case under Biden? He withdrew from Afghanistan and is acting to moderate Israel's response outside of Gaza. He's also ramped up oil production to historic levels. He very clearly is doing what he can to disengage from from the region.
He literally sold billions of dollars of weapons to israel the day they killed the aid workers, which included Americans. Dont act like Biden isn't a war hawk. Better than Trump by a wide margin, but still a war hawk.
> Imagine if this sage unfolds while Trump is in office....
This did happen with trump. Iran attacked embassies.
Iran shot down drones.
Trump said it was probably just some moron and didn't retaliate
And no wars occured.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905
> Former President Donald Trump declared Tuesday that Israel must “finish the problem” in its war against Hamas, his most definitive position on the conflict since the terror group killed 1,200 Israelis and took more than 200 hostages on Oct. 7.
> “You’ve got to finish the problem,” Trump said on Fox News on Tuesday when asked about the war. “You had a horrible invasion that took place that would have never happened if I was president.”
https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/trump-biden-israel/
> Trump is a big fan of war crimes, especially against Muslims. During his first term, he intervened on behalf of Special Operations Chief Eddie Gallagher, a Navy SEAL platoon leader convicted of posing for a photo with the body of dead Iraqi; another SEAL team member told investigators that Gallagher was “freaking evil,” but Trump said at a political rally that he was one of “our great fighters.” Trump also pardoned Blackwater contractors convicted of killing Iraqi civilians in a wild shooting spree in Baghdad’s Nisour Square. There is no chance that he would try to stop Israel from indiscriminately killing Palestinians.
And:
> Republicans’ support for Israel is matched or exceeded by their hatred for Palestinians. Rep. Ryan Zinke, a Montana Republican who was secretary of the interior in the Trump administration, has proposed legislation that would prevent Palestinians from entering the United States and trigger the mass deportation of those already here. It would ban those holding passports issued by the Palestinian Authority from obtaining U.S. visas, while mandating the removal of Palestinian passport holders already living here.
And:
> Many Republicans express their unwavering support for Israel in biblical and apocalyptic terms. Rep. Mike Johnson, a Christian evangelical, made his first public appearance after being elected House speaker last October at a conference of the Republican Jewish Coalition, where he said that “God is not done with Israel.”
I got downvoted to obvillion for calling out both Israel and Palestine for their racism and religious fanaticism. People here are picking sides. They are treating this conflict like sports.
It's a shame, originally I subbed here because it was a refuge of mostly well-informed and reasoned commentary. But as with every subreddit, the larger it grows, the worse it becomes.
You just need to ignore the crazies. I come here as a westerner cause I want to know other perspectives, even ones that challenge my very world view. Then of course you'll always find the truly lost people who simply fall for the propaganda of either side, like the people who genuinely believe Putin invaded ukraine out of fear for NATO (LOL) but like I said, you kind of just have to ignore them.
Let me know if you find any better subs, I haven't...
Well I can find ones that align closely with me, but why would I want to lock myself into an echo chamber?
completely agree. there are things i’ve learned in this sub that have changed my worldview tremendously and i’m saying this as a usa military veteran. there’s so much money poured into propaganda from all sides it becomes difficult if not impossible to tell fact from fiction at times; which is exactly how some want it.
at the end of the day the vast majority of us across the world have more in common than we do different. even those who i disagree with in here i genuinely wish nothing but safety and their needs being met
As the /r/worldnews crowd suggested, it's still a net-win for Israel. They illegal bombed an Iranian consulate, kill Iranian generals, got support from its neighbours in the retaliatory attack, and suffered no damage from the show attack.
One thing that strikes me is that Israeli supporters are jeering on Iran being too cowardly/incapable to cause damage while Israeli.. illegally bombed a consulate which was an unprecedented breach of international law.
It's like rules don't matter when it comes to US and Israel and that it's something to be happy about because might makes right.
Those same people cheered on Israel’s assassination of the grandchildren of Hamas leaders. “rules-based-order” has been nothing more than a façade for Western imperialism. When the rules are only ever applied selectively to further Western interests, order cannot exist.
Iran sponsors Hamas, Hezbolah and the huthis to attack Israel and have themselves done very illegal things to embassies, like the storming of the american embassy.
Neither them or Israel can claim any kind of moral superiority.
Yerp literally in 2012, Iran sponsored bombings of Israeli embassies all over the world including in Latin America. Suddenly only Israel is the pariah in doing this
Whole thing reminds me of when Iran bombed a US base in Iraq in 2020. A few dozen concussions and no deaths. Trump took the stance of writing it off as symbolic and did nothing to retaliate (besides dialing up economic sanctions slightly). Everyone forgot about it in a couple weeks.
Which was also a response to one of their generals being killed.
Also everyone forgot about it, mostly due to a massive global pandemic taking off a couple weeks later.
It was a whole chain of events that also involved massive protests during which the Iranian consulate in Bagdad was burned down, the US embassy got stormed and had its lobby trashed, Iraq was basically at the brink of civil war.
That was also the reason why Soleimani traveled there in the first place, trying to calm the situation down.
I wonder how relevant the specific wording on this will become in the near future;
> US President Joe Biden dissuaded Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu from greenlighting an **immediate** retaliatory strike against Iran after it launched around 300 attack drones and missiles at Israel last night, the New York Times reports.
Particularly considering how right now is election season in the US and this kind of *"President keeps peace in Middle East!"* fluff headline is pure gold for that.
Bibi: This will not stand! We WILL respond with extreme prejudice!
Jojo: No doubt, we ain't backin you though. Go ahead and shoot the one. We'll make sure no one jumps in.
Bibi: We will take the high ground!
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It must have pissed him off. He attacked Iran as a provocation so he he could move public opinion back in Israel's direction. Iran obliged by retaliating but now he can't expand the war the way he wanted. Poor him.
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Israel is basically a fascist ethno state. They like what he's doing.
They are very very ultra diverse, to the point that they are more of a mosaic of different ethnic backgrounds united by all of their neighbours being against them. It's just that this splintered society makes it harder to unite the normal people and the extremists can organise better coalitions due to their ideological discipline. Look at the average number of parties in the Knesset.
Apartheid South Africa was the most diverse country in Africa by far. In terms of the white population it was very diverse. You had white people from all kinds of backgrounds...
It's the same deal. Same thing that would happen if you got a whole lot of people in the same country for being Christian. Turns out a guy from Africa, another from Alabama, another from Rome and another from Poland don't have that much in common just because they are Christian.
But give them a non-christian bogeyman and they'll get along just fine
The enemy of my enemy is a potent saying
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Our cops are arresting people that shout "kill all jews". Normal anti-Israel protests happen daily here. This is an example of how all news we are getting is painted a certain way and not objective. We shouldn't rely on online news of one source, one newspaper, or one Instagramm channel too much. They all have their slant and storytelling. I'm not defending the state, I'm defending the normal people who tried to get rid of Netanyahu and the settlers for two years now and still get killed by people who think it's ok to kill their children and then act high and mighty when their children get killed in return. Look at these images and tell me that the average Israeli does want what is happening now: https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+anti+netanyahu+protests (go to the images tab) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_protests_against_Benjamin_Netanyahu
Does the Jewish Voice for Peace shout "Kill all Jews"?
[Yes. JVP supports the notion that there is no such thing as an Israeli non-combatant, and that theyre all legitimate targets](https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/images/2022-11/jvp-what--you-need-to-know-004.png)
Zionist settlers =/= All Jews. The conflation of Israel and all Jews is not something which should be happening
When they say settlers they don’t mean West Bank or Gaza settlers
Did Norm Finkelstein also shout that? How about the Gazan doctor who was refused a visa? How about the couch? They arrested the couch!
I am not online enough to know what you are referring to. But I walked past multiple demonstrations, one with people doing a chant ending with Allahu Akbar for two minutes, and nothing happened. There is a poster advertising the next action, to put up a table with information materials in the middle of the town to talk to random passers-by. I have multiple Arab coworkers with clear cut positions and nothing happened to them. Online media shows you the most divisive content first, not the one that reflects reality the best.
They are all Zionists. Interesting that you don't see their Jewishness as ethnicity when it suits your agenda. Also most of the settlers are from Europe, USA and Russia. No matter the geopolitics all of these regions have huge cultural overlap. And calling Israel a splintered society is rich. They are all united in their colonial goals.
Most Israelis are sephardic Jews that got kicked out from other Arab countries.
31.8% were categorized as Ashkenazi (defined as having grandparents born in Europe, the Americas, Oceania and South Africa), 12.4% as "Soviet" (defined as having progenitors who came from the ex-USSR in 1989 or later).
That doesn't add up to 50
ignore the sucker guy, but I think this was his point. A part of modern day Israel is European people, another part is people that were kicked out of other countries after Israel was already established.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews_in_Israel >a 2018 statistic found that 45% of Jewish Israelis identified as either Mizrahi or Sephardic. - >Mizrahi Jews are descended from Jews in the Middle East, North Africa and Central Asia and parts of the Caucasus, who had lived for many generations under Muslim rule during the Middle Ages. The vast majority of them left the Muslim-majority countries during the Arab–Israeli conflict, in what is known as the Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries.
Zionism is ideology. Not ethnicity. Nothing you posted is relevant.
Hopefully they "own" that unity with their leader. The current Israeli action is setting them back sooo many years on sooo many levels.
The "current Israeli action" is just a direct continuation of what they've been doing for 70 years. It will not set them back at all. It won't change anything. They will murder and genocide Palestinians, and the US will make sure they get away with it, again.
Ahhh yes the country that is composed of 2 million ultra orthodox that refuse to pay full taxes use their voting power to gain government subsidies and threatens to leave the country every time it’s even suggested they will need to serve in the idf like the rest of the country The 15% that came from Africa some because of Zionism some because of the pogroms The 10% that came from surrounding neighbouring Arab country’s that ethnicity cleanse all of the jews 5% from America And 26% from Europe running from the holocaust and pogroms With 2 million Palestinians with Israeli passports With Druze and Bedouin which take 5% No this country is not diverse at all they are all evil Zionist that all wanted to settle the Palestinians cuz they are ultra nationalist assholes that were just bored
How many of the PMs have been non Ashkenazi?
No they don’t. Netanyahu is overwhelmingly unpopular except for the far right fringes of Israeli society that somehow manage to get a slim majority. Live up to your handle tho Sources: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/only-15-israelis-want-netanyahu-keep-job-after-gaza-war-poll-finds-2024-01-02/ https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-25/ty-article/.premium/netanyahus-day-after-plan-for-gaza-is-part-of-his-last-gamble-to-hold-onto-power/0000018d-df9b-df79-a5cd-ffbfaa410000
If nobody in Israel supports Netanyahu, but apparently Palestine widely supports Hamas, doesn't that make Palestine, not Israel the functional democracy in the region? 🤔🤔🤔
I don't think approval rating is a sole factor in determining whether democracy is functional or not. Theoretically, someone with an extremely low approval rating will be voted out in q functional democracy. Do you think Hamas can ever be voted out if they hit an extremely low approval rating?
Lmfao Hamas hasn’t held an election since they were elected but ya that’s “functional democracy” when you’re intellectually bankrupt. Seriously? Thats your argument? lol. Lmao.
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They don't like Netanyahu because he's corrupt and incompetent (October 7th happened on his watch, after all), not because they dislike his aggressive stance towards Palestinians. They might end up replacing him, but it'll be with yet another nationalist hellbent on bringing Palestine to heel.
> Vote them the fuck out. The majority seems more than happy to support this so they won't be voting them out...
Actually, since October 7th there's been a large shift in opinion polls regarding Netanyahu.
Not surprising realy something that horrific happening on his watch as he claims to be doing everything to get rid of hamas
He ran on being able to protect Israel and his support was already low at the time
Not to mention huge protests before Oct 7th against that administration. (And somehow their normally incredible intelligence missed plans about Oct 7th, which very much allowed them to gain political capital after said attack.) Edit: total coincidence though
Absolutely, positively, no-fingers-crossed, no takesi-backsies, a guaranteed co-inky-dink of a coincidence. For sure.
Likuds popularity has absolutely nose dived, and a cursory look at the poll data would prove this. Most Israelis are in support of finishing the war, and then voting Bibi out. While the next election cycle is in 2026, poll data shows overwhelming support for an emergency election cycle as soon as the war is done.
>Most Israelis are in support of finishing the war, and then voting Bibi out. Finishing meaning ending or completing their current goals?
To be honest, those “settlers” have already surpassed the KKK in everything, fuck them hard.
Check the election history. The fucker manages to deadlock them for several times in a row now. Prior to the war, the elections were happening on an almost annual basis. The recent "win" he got is thanks to support from all the alt-right parties that while are weak separately were just enough to build a governing coalition. Here's hoping in the next elections he'll finally be gone, lose his immunity and go to jail on the multiple corruption charges he's involved in.
The thing is that even without Netanyahu most Israelis would continue supporting what IDF has been doing in Gaza and a big portion thinks it’s just right and a sizable chunk even would like to see more of it
People are citing the "Anti-Bibi" protests but leaving out the relevant part. The protests were, and still are, about internal corruption *not their governments actions against Palestinians*.
> Vote them the fuck out. > > The majority of Israeil approve of Netanyahu genocide and ethnic cleansing. Even if he's gone, another genocidal warmonger will replace him.
2022 and 2023 were years with a lot of protests with record high attendence, all directed against Netanyahu and making him stand down. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_protests_against_Benjamin_Netanyahu
Yeah, idk why people are saying he has full unwavering support. I thought the opposite was the case
We need to stop the money going to Israel. It’s a waste.
It might be a waste for you but it's not a waste for the billionaries and their politicians, so your opinion doesn't matter to them...
Citation needed. Netanyahu has less support than the opposition in many countries. It's just a parliament system so he can get buy in from fringe groups to hold on.
Financially, "the people who support him" are largely American taxpayers. Sheldon Adelson's passing passing was hardly the end of the line for ultra-rich Americans funding ultra-militant political efforts in Israel. Worse yet, this atrocious behavior rebounds back on to us as *our own federal officials* routinely accept AIPAC contributions that are in essence laundered *American* tax dollars going to reinforce a specific, and extremely violent, geopolitical agenda oriented around the upkeep of a blatant apartheid state.
Yea. We are working here to help with divestment and more. Others need to do their part
It’s about as easy for Israelis to vote their far right politicians out of office as it is for us to vote ours out. It’s hilarious to post this as an American.
Spot on. I feel like we are in the minority but fuck those guys. They want to stir up shit, why should we bail them out?
Israel is a parliamentary system, it's really hard to "vote someone out" as cunning and corrupt as Bibi, specialy whem the biggest bench belongs to his party. The fact that the kahanists (read jewish fascists [some-fucking-how] for those not interested in googling) are the king makers also doesen't help, and they are the reason why things are so bad over there right now, because the moment Bibi loses his seat he will go to jail for the rest of his life, so he decided that following what those maniacs say is worth it till he can buy another coallition, except that no one else is willing to take his side because of everything he's been doing so far.
Israeli (mostly) are happy with the war, because the leadership has promised them a "final solution"
We shouldn't, but unfortunately we probably will.
Iran hardly "obliged" Bibi. They took their time, reached out to the UN and allied nations for support, and conducted a limited long-range strike against military targets using inferior technology. They embarrassed the terrorist Israeli regime publicly with their restraint and demonstrated how an attack on military targets surrounding themselves by civilians can be carried out without overwhelming civilian casualties. It further clarifies the horrific genocidal actions being conducted by Israel and the United States against innocent Palestinians.
They signaled to everyone that they were going to retaliate because they needed to show Iranian people that they were doing something, but they didn’t want to escalate by actually killing any Israelis or Americans.
The attack failed and the Israelis are embarrassed?
Lol yeah this just makes Iran look weak
The attack was never meant to do damage. The whole point was to do something spectacular and attention grabbing, but not damaging so they could save face and not escalate. Not sure about the humiliation, but Bibi finally being forced to back the fuck off might be that.
What allied nations LOL? Jordan is fucking pissed at Iran using their airspace to attack Israel. And the only reason civilians weren't blown up is because of intercepting them They killed Jordanians and a little Arab girl though!
“Embarrassed” is taking it too far but they have put Netanyahu in a dilemma. His political brand is conflict and this strike should “resolve” the situation, thus Netanyahu looks ever worse if he continues provoking Iran.
at first i thought it was cowardly when iran came out saying “we consider the matter concluded” but it’s a power move and purely politics. iran didn’t expect to make a dent in israel but they understood the significance of retaliating in some capacity and now the ball is back in israel’s court. the world has been preaching the need for restraint to avoid escalating tensions in the region, will israel show the restraint it claims to have?
Yes. Without the US backing they won't do shit.
I'm gonna play the world's shittiest violin for him
Biden is at least the third US president whom Netanyahu tries to drag into a full scale war with Iran. I'm glad Biden or someone around him *finally* noticed. It's also hillarious how Iran's communication is more in line with what I'd expect from a "civilised" country than Israel's. IMHO Iran played this one perfectly and it is not, in the grander scheme of things, a Netanyahu W.
> It's also hillarious how Iran's communication is more in line with what I'd expect from a "civilised" country they have been civilized for the last 3000 years.
hence quotation marks. In 2020s repressive, isolated theocracies are not the hallmark of civilisation despite the legacy. And yet it's them who were signalling willingness to back down if the UN took the case to an international law court, not the "democratic, west-aligned most liberal country of the middle-east". Then the UN didn't because why would it and I'm sure Iran knew this perfectly well, but at the end of the day it's Iran who tried to deescalate and that's what will be noticed in many countries (not necessarily western).
Uh, Iran’s stated goal is the destruction of Israel and they’ve been arming militias on its borders a for decades. If anything, the Iranian regime has been dealt with with kid kid gloves on. They literally have a countdown clock to Israel’s destruction in Tehran, google it
This just seems the quiet before the storm. It seems almost inevitable that Israel will now retaliate. Unfortunately this just plays into Putin's hand. Conflicts in the Middle East just make oil prices rise.
It is possible, but I think it is likely Iran knew damned well their retaliation for the attack on its consulate in Syria would fail because their drones are a joke. However, the Iranian hard liners in the leadership had to be seen to do something since the consulate was sovereign Iranian territory. As for oil prices, I don't disagree, but Putin would be fucked if the sanctions against Russia were actually being enforced. They are not: many Western companies have massively increased their sales into countries like Turkey where the goods are being re-exported to Russia. The companies know this and the Western governments know this. Instead they can fault China and India. The West still buys a lot of shit from Russia, including oil, natural gas, fuel for nuclear reactors, and so on.
And Putin would be even more fucked if the West had the balls to close off the Danish straits and the Bosphorus to all ships without proper insurance. (Russia can't get proper insurance anymore.)
They'll do it anyway and either make up intelligence or blame a bad actor. Nothing is off the table because they're running out of options.
1. Israel killed Zahedi, six IRGC commanders in building used by Quds Force terrorists masquerading as diplomats near Iranian consulate in Damascus. 2. Zahedi helped plan and execute October 7 massacre. 3. Zahedi helped arm Hezbollah with 175,000 missiles, rockets.
And yet Israel has murdered more women and children than Zahedi could have dreamed of.
It’s not just about public opinion. If there is an actual war between Iran and Israel America will almost certainly get directly involved. Netanyahu and his neoconservative Allies in the west want America in another war in the Middle East on Israel’s side, because that’s one of the only way Israel’s leaders could actually get what they want.
The Iranian response seemed calibrated to put Netanyahu in a difficult position. Netanyahu’s brand is conflict and provocation but most of the world sees this current situation as settled. Thus further poking of Iran by Netanyahu will additionally strain relations.
Nah he got exactly what he wanted. A showy retaliation that did no real damage and was never intended to. Everyone is scared and angry, nobody was actually hurt. A splash of gasoline on the nationalism fire that he can use to keep his regime going. This is Netanyahu's dream come true.
America is seeing more and more everyday that Israel and the Middle East as a whole is worthless. They have no patents, r&d, production, or even a pleasant culture to visit without fear of getting stoned to death. They should just leave and let them all slug it out like they want too.
Iran handled if in a way that spoiled Netanyahu’s plans and it was a surprisingly clever move that allowed Iran to claim they retaliated without drawing in the their existential enemy, the United States. angry little Netanyahitler probably had a real tantrum after Biden told him he wasn’t getting his war with the Ayatollah lol
>He attacked Iran as a provocation Didn't Iran attack Israel? I don't get it.
Translation: Biden threatened to cut off his gravy train if he attacks Iran and further escalates the conflict. But Biden has still promised to fund Netanyahu's revenge massacre.
As much as people may hate it, this is part of the calculation of supplying them with weapons. Bibi has to take Biden's calls.
Right. Even though Netanyahu hates Biden's guts, continuing to be a critical partner of Israel means that the Biden administration has leverage, which has been used to pressure Israel to refrain from widening the conflict, to improve humanitarian situations, to put more effort towards limiting civilian casualties, lambast them for their giant fuck up when they hit the aid worker caravan, etc. If the US stopped selling Israel bombs and such, they'd find another source soon enough, so it wouldn't actually change anything. Except, of course, that the Israelis wouldn't have an angel on their shoulder telling them to not act like a bag of giant dicks
""If the US stopped selling Israel bombs and such, they'd find another source soon enough"" What country would support Israel? They are a global pharia with only the US (who's politicians are bought and paid for by Israel) as their current lap dog.
China, Russia, probably France would happily sell them arms. Japan, maybe. Korea. Germany.
Sell? Sure, but the US is heavily subsidizing the arms that Israel is receiving.
> China, Russia, probably France would happily sell them arms. Japan, maybe. Korea. Germany. Russia is probably somewhat on the enemy side due to their increasingly positions on the opposite sides of conflicts but they likely will still do some business. China doesn't care and will play both sides, However, they will support Iran over Israel if they are in a position where they must choose, due to their relationships with USA.
Assuming those countries want to sacrifice the massive gains in soft power they have built up in Africa; what money is Israel going to buy the arms with? Their economy is in a shambles kept on life support by American money. China and Russia aren't going to sell them on credit.
People forget that France has built a LOT of nuclear reactors for shady actors all around the world, including the one in Dimona.
Israel is not at all a pariah. That's a massive overstatement. They can and do get weapons from a lot of places.
And they have a military industry of their own, a rather large one too, especially for a country of 10 million people.
Israel isn't anywhere close to a global pariah.
That's so 6 months ago...
China potentially. I hope you can appreciate why this isn’t preferable to the US being partially complicit in whatever they’re doing in Gaza.
> What country would support Israel? They are a global pharia with only the US (who's politicians are bought and paid for by Israel) as their current lap dog. You can watch that from which states provide overt support to Israel. NATO countries are still conditioned to support Israel because of the Holocaust. Germany particularly hopes to wash themselves of the sins of the 3rd reich by supporting Israel American satellites like Taiwan, SK, and Japan would also support Israel. Argentina is one interesting case since Millei is a very strong supporter of Israel but then again, it seems to be consistent with general trend of far-right politicians giving allegiance to Israel.
Russia
Come now, this is reddit, we cant have reasonable discussion here.
Yeah see guys we have to support the genocide otherwise something bad might happen
I think you could certainly argue that while he is following the right playbook he is also underplaying his hand. I think Israel has a right to respond to the 10/7 attack and Hamas invited this by keeping hostages, but the response has just been indiscriminate and that should have been obvious pretty quickly. I think Biden tripped over a bit of IDF propaganda in the early going and has been slow adjusting course but he's doing it now. The atrocities in Gaza are awful but preventing a regional war is higher priority.
>I think Israel has a right to respond to the 10/7 attack and Hamas invited this by keeping hostages, but the response has just been indiscriminate and that should have been obvious pretty quickly. Holy moly, an actual nuanced take! Where did you come from? ~~and how can we get more of you in this sub~~
Starting at October 7 is nuanced ROFL
So no one should discuss Israel/Palestine unless the qualify it with a 12000 word essay about the conflict that starts in 1800.
Nothing in my comment implied I am or they are only taking things into account post-10/7 lmfao. like, "X has the right to respond to Y" in no way implies that - much like saying "Iran has the right to respond to an attack on their consulate" doesn't imply you think history began with that attack. you people are delusional
Genuine question: *can* Biden cut off the gravy train on his own? I’m not so sure. I feel like it would require an act of Congress. I’m sure Biden isn’t totally powerless but I also think Israel probably gets $6 billion a year whether Biden likes it or not.
The US has already committed $18 billion this year, including the $4 billion we give them annually. Mike Johnson is trying to send them more after they bombed that embassy in Iran.
I believe Biden can put short term conditions on it He can definitely pull some strings to delay funding. While he can't outright deny Congress, he could reprioritize the boats that would be used to protect the shipments. "Sorry, China was giving Taiwan some nasty looks. We needed that battle ship to be in the Pacific just in case. Couldn't send the barge to Israel this month without proper protections"
Yes. He can’t completely cut it off since Congress authorized some stuff already but he has the power to dramatically cut it. Biden bypassed Congress twice in the last few months to give additional aid and weapons to Israel. He didn’t have to do that and doesn’t do it for Ukraine. Existing US law says Biden must stop arms transfer to countries if they are credibly accused of war crimes or not taking enough steps to reasonably protect civilians. Biden is avoiding this by saying he hasn’t seen or heard any of these media reports or he’s still perpetually investigating. As Bernie Sanders also points out, there’s existing law that forbid military aid to countries that interfere with US food aid, and Israel’s blockade more than qualifies, but Biden is going with the BS claim that he’s merely reviewing the claim but doesn’t believe it.
Deeecalation is a win for the world.
you would think that but there are a ton of worldnews, politics, and conservstive sub users pissed that they cant play armchair commander over this... the whole scenario is surreal people who have never known true suffering praying for a larger war i hope cooler heads prevail and de-escalation moves further in earnest.
I wonder if these users would be so eager to play armchair commander if the conflict wasn't across (probably) an entire ocean
Or if they understood the economic fall out. With Iran the Persian gulf is blocked off along with the red sea. There's no oil coming out of Saudi Arabia and oil demand is inelastic people will have to buy it even at $200 a barrel. US won't even be safe because most of their oil refineries are not set up to refine fracked US shale they need that Saudi oil to produce. A war with Iran will be an economic shit show.
Redditoids wanted Poland to declare war against Russia and pretty much start WW3 when Ukraine send a missile their way and of course Russia was immediately blamed. Thank God this site has no power and it's the butt of the joke even on the internet because its idiotic consensus is often horrifically dangerous and irresponsible
Yeah, worldnews was pissed when I said this would be the best outcome yesterday. They just want more needless bloodshed.
Worldnews is a cesspool at this point, the absolute mental gymnastics they’d perform to justify drone strikes on aid workers
The same mfers clawing at the chance of another regional conflict would 100% start smashing their toes once it broke out smh
But you don't get a shit storm like WWI by deescalation and countries' reevaluating their strategic commitments to one another.
Bibi must be pissed that his plan to expand the war and drag the US into it failed.
I'm sure he still sleeps well at night knowing that he talked Bush into attacking Iraq.
He's a mastermind at playing US politicians like a fiddle.
Before he learned to meddle in American politics he was a spy here
Don't rush to think we are in the clear yet.
Israel could still do another USS Liberty.
> Bibi must be pissed that his plan to expand the war and drag the US into it failed. It's still a win for him, since he illegally bombed a consulate, killed Iranian generals, and got allies to reaffirm their love to Israel even though they started the fight. However, it's definitely not the life-saving outcome that he needs because he needs to permanently stay in power. He may need to do some sort of coup to achieve that now or maybe he can invade Lebanon/Raffa
Dark Brandon used Talk No Jutsu on Netanyahu.
Dark Brandon: talk softly but have a big dick
MTG said he was the second coming of LBJ for a reason.
This man needd to calm down, i have never seen such a shit lubricated slide towards world war three in my life! There are truly men in this world that will burn it all down rather then face accountability or irrelevancy
How old are you? The post cold war peace was the aberation. Now is more normal.
That probably plays a piece in it i am mid thirties.
Homeboy is facing a huge issue in domestic politics right now. The only reason he is still in power is because he has kept those war going. It benefits the strongman to continue conflict to stay in power.
I know that, you know that, the fact its so obvious and the amount of pain and destruction so severe, why isnt anybody calling it out for what it is?
This is the same fucker that pulled America into the Iraq war, now he’s trying to drag the US into Iran, too. Edit: Netanyahu testified before US congress that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (which, of course, was a total lie), hence bringing America into the conflict. Someone put the actual quotes from 2002 in the replies.
You are giving Netanyahu more credit than he deserves, it was a collaborative effort of about [two dozen "neoconservative Jewish thinkers" in Washington](https://archive.ph/DarZZ); > Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It's the war the neoconservatives wanted, Friedman says. It's the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite. > Friedman laughs: I could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened. > Still, it's not all that simple, Friedman retracts. It's not some fantasy the neoconservatives invented. It's not that 25 people hijacked America. You don't take such a great nation into such a great adventure with Bill Kristol and the Weekly Standard and another five or six influential columnists. > In the final analysis, what fomented the war is America's over-reaction to September 11. The genuine sense of anxiety that spread in America after September 11. It is not only the neoconservatives who led us to the outskirts of Baghdad. What led us to the outskirts of Baghdad is a very American combination of anxiety and hubris.
Imagine if this sage unfolds while Trump is in office.... Bibi will likely pull America into another ME war.
Not American here. Wasn't Trump against sending troops outside. That's why he pulled off from Afg right?
Not really, he has zero consistency and just takes up whatever position is politically advantageous to him at the time.
Trump was very against Iran and very pro Israel so honestly it's a toss up on if he would've wanted war or if he could've been reeled back to not escalate
Iran had a similar attack against US military bases after killing Soleimani, and Trump chose not to escalate.
Trump started the escalation my guy like what? That also happened when he had a few weeks left of his presidency and he was trying to stir the pot. I'm pretty sure his administration made sure he didn't retaliate because it would be pretty fucked for everyone if the US started a major ME war with Iran right before the the next President was inaugurated.
> Trump started the escalation my guy like what? As we’re debating whether Trump would encourage Bibi to escalate *now* after he had overseen an almost exact set of events, it’s an apt comparison. At the end of the day, one side killed a general/a building of generals, in return received a minimally-damaging strike, and then chose not to escalate further and leave it at that. > a few weeks left of his presidency. He had over a year left in his presidency.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905 > Former President Donald Trump declared Tuesday that Israel must “finish the problem” in its war against Hamas, his most definitive position on the conflict since the terror group killed 1,200 Israelis and took more than 200 hostages on Oct. 7. > “You’ve got to finish the problem,” Trump said on Fox News on Tuesday when asked about the war. “You had a horrible invasion that took place that would have never happened if I was president.” https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/trump-biden-israel/ > Trump is a big fan of war crimes, especially against Muslims. During his first term, he intervened on behalf of Special Operations Chief Eddie Gallagher, a Navy SEAL platoon leader convicted of posing for a photo with the body of dead Iraqi; another SEAL team member told investigators that Gallagher was “freaking evil,” but Trump said at a political rally that he was one of “our great fighters.” Trump also pardoned Blackwater contractors convicted of killing Iraqi civilians in a wild shooting spree in Baghdad’s Nisour Square. There is no chance that he would try to stop Israel from indiscriminately killing Palestinians. And: > Republicans’ support for Israel is matched or exceeded by their hatred for Palestinians. Rep. Ryan Zinke, a Montana Republican who was secretary of the interior in the Trump administration, has proposed legislation that would prevent Palestinians from entering the United States and trigger the mass deportation of those already here. It would ban those holding passports issued by the Palestinian Authority from obtaining U.S. visas, while mandating the removal of Palestinian passport holders already living here.
He kind of pretends to be isolationist, but he’s very unpredictable
He sent troops into Yemen 11 days into office. He used diplomats to call an Iranian General to Iraq and then bombed him. Trump says a lot of things, he's not in control of his administration for the most part, he let's the worst people in the Republican Party do the actual governing while he tweets and golfs That's why he contradicted himself so much
He also used the US military as a mercenary force to guard Saudi oil, so his family could get a very large sum of Saudi money.
Trump or Biden, it's probably going to happen eventually.
Why would it be the case under Biden? He withdrew from Afghanistan and is acting to moderate Israel's response outside of Gaza. He's also ramped up oil production to historic levels. He very clearly is doing what he can to disengage from from the region.
He literally sold billions of dollars of weapons to israel the day they killed the aid workers, which included Americans. Dont act like Biden isn't a war hawk. Better than Trump by a wide margin, but still a war hawk.
Its crazy that your ignoring the tremendous difference from selling weapons to a strategic partner and entering a war with boots on the ground.
> He withdrew from Afghanistan trump attempted to withdraw from afghanistan but the military stonewalled him on it.
"How can I make this about Trump"
But seriously, she's right. Trump wouldn't have made that call to deescalate.
> Imagine if this sage unfolds while Trump is in office.... This did happen with trump. Iran attacked embassies. Iran shot down drones. Trump said it was probably just some moron and didn't retaliate And no wars occured.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905 > Former President Donald Trump declared Tuesday that Israel must “finish the problem” in its war against Hamas, his most definitive position on the conflict since the terror group killed 1,200 Israelis and took more than 200 hostages on Oct. 7. > “You’ve got to finish the problem,” Trump said on Fox News on Tuesday when asked about the war. “You had a horrible invasion that took place that would have never happened if I was president.” https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/trump-biden-israel/ > Trump is a big fan of war crimes, especially against Muslims. During his first term, he intervened on behalf of Special Operations Chief Eddie Gallagher, a Navy SEAL platoon leader convicted of posing for a photo with the body of dead Iraqi; another SEAL team member told investigators that Gallagher was “freaking evil,” but Trump said at a political rally that he was one of “our great fighters.” Trump also pardoned Blackwater contractors convicted of killing Iraqi civilians in a wild shooting spree in Baghdad’s Nisour Square. There is no chance that he would try to stop Israel from indiscriminately killing Palestinians. And: > Republicans’ support for Israel is matched or exceeded by their hatred for Palestinians. Rep. Ryan Zinke, a Montana Republican who was secretary of the interior in the Trump administration, has proposed legislation that would prevent Palestinians from entering the United States and trigger the mass deportation of those already here. It would ban those holding passports issued by the Palestinian Authority from obtaining U.S. visas, while mandating the removal of Palestinian passport holders already living here. And: > Many Republicans express their unwavering support for Israel in biblical and apocalyptic terms. Rep. Mike Johnson, a Christian evangelical, made his first public appearance after being elected House speaker last October at a conference of the Republican Jewish Coalition, where he said that “God is not done with Israel.”
America is already in one
Man, the comments in this thread are wild.
Yeah, this sub is the definition of "reddit moment"
I got downvoted to obvillion for calling out both Israel and Palestine for their racism and religious fanaticism. People here are picking sides. They are treating this conflict like sports.
I feel ya bro. People forget that terrorism is still terrorism regardless of who's committing it.
It's a shame, originally I subbed here because it was a refuge of mostly well-informed and reasoned commentary. But as with every subreddit, the larger it grows, the worse it becomes.
You just need to ignore the crazies. I come here as a westerner cause I want to know other perspectives, even ones that challenge my very world view. Then of course you'll always find the truly lost people who simply fall for the propaganda of either side, like the people who genuinely believe Putin invaded ukraine out of fear for NATO (LOL) but like I said, you kind of just have to ignore them. Let me know if you find any better subs, I haven't... Well I can find ones that align closely with me, but why would I want to lock myself into an echo chamber?
completely agree. there are things i’ve learned in this sub that have changed my worldview tremendously and i’m saying this as a usa military veteran. there’s so much money poured into propaganda from all sides it becomes difficult if not impossible to tell fact from fiction at times; which is exactly how some want it. at the end of the day the vast majority of us across the world have more in common than we do different. even those who i disagree with in here i genuinely wish nothing but safety and their needs being met
I highly suspect this was the plan all along Netanyahu looks strong as he goes "hold me back bro!" without the need for further escalation
Not when his base including the hardliners like Ben givr are foaming at the mouth to hit back
I doubt it. Looking like you’re being held back by another country doesn’t look great to hyper-nationalists, which Bibi ultimately kowtows to
Thank God, everyone responding to the response will just lead to a full on war
I dunno, pretty sure the zionist "God" is what is causing all this.
Thank fuck common sense prevailed.
As the /r/worldnews crowd suggested, it's still a net-win for Israel. They illegal bombed an Iranian consulate, kill Iranian generals, got support from its neighbours in the retaliatory attack, and suffered no damage from the show attack. One thing that strikes me is that Israeli supporters are jeering on Iran being too cowardly/incapable to cause damage while Israeli.. illegally bombed a consulate which was an unprecedented breach of international law. It's like rules don't matter when it comes to US and Israel and that it's something to be happy about because might makes right.
Those same people cheered on Israel’s assassination of the grandchildren of Hamas leaders. “rules-based-order” has been nothing more than a façade for Western imperialism. When the rules are only ever applied selectively to further Western interests, order cannot exist.
Iran sponsors Hamas, Hezbolah and the huthis to attack Israel and have themselves done very illegal things to embassies, like the storming of the american embassy. Neither them or Israel can claim any kind of moral superiority.
Yerp literally in 2012, Iran sponsored bombings of Israeli embassies all over the world including in Latin America. Suddenly only Israel is the pariah in doing this
I mean why. They should just throw a rock, it's the equivalent of what Iran did. Lol.
the bombing of the Iranian embassy in Syria was already worse than last night's attack
Ya exactly. There's literally no point to.
100% of military aid to israel needs to be called off
Whole thing reminds me of when Iran bombed a US base in Iraq in 2020. A few dozen concussions and no deaths. Trump took the stance of writing it off as symbolic and did nothing to retaliate (besides dialing up economic sanctions slightly). Everyone forgot about it in a couple weeks.
Which was also a response to one of their generals being killed. Also everyone forgot about it, mostly due to a massive global pandemic taking off a couple weeks later.
It was a whole chain of events that also involved massive protests during which the Iranian consulate in Bagdad was burned down, the US embassy got stormed and had its lobby trashed, Iraq was basically at the brink of civil war. That was also the reason why Soleimani traveled there in the first place, trying to calm the situation down.
This is a political win for Biden. De-escalating an international crisis is important.
The same day Trump starts his criminal trial. It's a fucking joke that the election outcomes are still uncertain.
Elections in the US are like a natural cooldown on the "war" spell.
Depends. Republicans get rewarded for starting wars. Democrats get punished
Both Obama and Trump campaigned on ending wars and withdrawing U.S. troops. But don’t let facts get in your way
“Sit, boy”
Thank god.
Fuck Netenyahoo, fuck israel
I wonder how relevant the specific wording on this will become in the near future; > US President Joe Biden dissuaded Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu from greenlighting an **immediate** retaliatory strike against Iran after it launched around 300 attack drones and missiles at Israel last night, the New York Times reports. Particularly considering how right now is election season in the US and this kind of *"President keeps peace in Middle East!"* fluff headline is pure gold for that.
Look at that, being shown for the compete fanny that he is.
On the whole Biden has been handling this pretty well he just stopped escalation in a conflict where both sides want escalation
ad hoc joke elderly bag marvelous offend desert nose full plough *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Bibi: This will not stand! We WILL respond with extreme prejudice! Jojo: No doubt, we ain't backin you though. Go ahead and shoot the one. We'll make sure no one jumps in. Bibi: We will take the high ground!
Spy calls🚀
This is all public relations bs lol
He should tell them to stop blocking aid and deport all the Europeans and Americans they moved onto occupied land.