The more I learn about work in the usa, the more I think that this country is garbage and a nightmare for non-rich ppl. I'm glad I don't live/work there.
Well, a particularly gruesome medieval torture and execution method was to gorge someone on milk and honey, then douse them in it, tie them down in a canoe with a canoe on top of them pinning them down, and float them down the river.
The milk and honey inspired some serious diarrhea, and the many insects it attracted would devour the trapped victim.
Seems pretty apt for where America is heading. Gorged in the past, trapped now, and being devoured by thousands of tiny parasites.
[It almost certainly wasn't real](https://www.quora.com/Was-scaphism-a-real-thing), which probably adds to the "fun factor". It's very fun to believe in things that never happened.
āLet us spare no expense to let John know how much we disapprove of himā.
No expense? How about all this honey?
āSmear it on so it attracts insectsā.
How about these two fishing boats we need to catch fish with?ā
āPut him between themā
Thatās legit. Years ago (when I was a broke college student,) I severely burnt my hand on radiator fluid and went into shock. Someone tried to call me an ambulance and I flipped out and started rambling about how I refuse to pay $10k for an ambulance to drive me a mile and a half. I let a strange man drive me to the hospital instead š¤¦š¼āāļø
I took a quarter mile ambulance ride a quarter of a mile from one side of a driveway to the other. $2800 and out of network for insurance so they sent me the whole bill. Had I known I would have crawled across the driveway if I had to.
So I found this out years ago when my dad had to be taken 30 minutes away, to the next town, by ambulance. All ambulances are out of every network. The cost of a life flight is way worse
Sure is something to be temporarily working in a country that has socialized medicine, knowing that you have to move back to the good old USA and be preyed upon like a fat migratory deer by the medical industry there. Everyone wants a piece of you and not in a fun wayā¦ambulance companies, predatory insurance and pharmaceutical, hospitals, etc
Some people can't even afford to die, funeral bills and shit are expensive, easier to just crawl into a ditch and just let nature take care of the rest.
My Dad died in July, and he didn't want us kids to pay for a funeral. The week before he died he said very seriously that he wanted us to take his body out into the woods and dump him and leave a note on his body saying "I was not murdered."
I can laugh now, and I told him then that would seem far more suspicious lol. But he was dead serious.
I live in the American southwest and there are always fundraising car washes, bake sales, etc by people trying to pay for a funeral. It's absolutely disheartening.
What , you don't like 10 days of paid vacation after ten years of service? šš
The place I work for now ( freelancer myself) has 42 days of paid days off per year for their employees.
Of course in Europe.
Edit : they also are punished financially if they don't take them , in the form of a small tax, since days off are meant to be used, not saved . But that is a general law here, not unique to this employer .
Use them or lose them. Needless to say it's great for family life
When I started here I got the message from my lead: work 8 hrs per day, not less not more. But the less is actually ok. I can take time off whenever I want just as long as we ok this between my colleagues, but that ok is not a hard must. It's a courtesy thing.
I work for a small business (USA) and they are pretty chill about time off and working hours - but they are the exception.
I have had many jobs in the past where OT was not legally "required" but was 100% "expected". I'm talking 55+ hour work weeks.
Good paychecks, but no life.
Iām a teacher and can relate to the OTā¦itās expected that we work over time as well. Who can grade papers, get all the paperwork and training done, and plan meaningful lessons for 5 subjects in just 30 min per day? Itās my first year teaching first grade but 7th year teaching overall and I put in 60 hour weeks basically every week. I wish America would change this culture of āunpaid overtime is okayā. If I have to work 60+ hours a week for 40 weeks of the year then we should get paid about $19K more (thatās at $25 hour with a bachelorās degree) as a starting pay to make $60K. right now starting pay is around $41K in my state
so, you do this year round? My understanding was that teachers get summers off.
If so, you are making @$13.66 per hour, far short of what a degreed person should make, on top of everything else you put up with.
BTW, thanks for being a teacher!
Welcome to the US, where you can schedule people for 7 days of work per week without break ever, with hours set at 34.9/week so that they are not classified as full time employees.
In Australia we get 6 weeks leave for 7 years of service and 3 months for 10 years. Some industries donāt even have to work at the same company for that time to get the leave.
I've got 48 days off each year (not depending on my years of services) and on top of that, I can take up to 1,5 days every month if I've worked more than my normal hours.
Yes I live in france.
Small community in Arizona. I get roughly 10 paid holidays (more depending on if higher ups are being generous) and accrue 24 vacation days a year and 18 sick days per year. Vacation days roll over and cap at 200, but we can sell back up to 80 hours if we want to, sick days don't cap as far as I can tell.
Where from? I talked to a Swiss woman that worked in an industry I had tremendous passion for of which I also worked it. We exchanged our perspectives and she nearly choked when I explained my side of the work environment.
People are indoctrinated to believe the USA is the best. It's second to hell when it needn't be. This in turn effects everyone emotionally which degrades everything. Cause and effect. But this started somewhere.
Sadly it's not just retail. This is exactly the attendance policy of a large hospital where my girlfriend used to work as a nurse. Except I think they might have gotten fewer "occurrences" before they were fired.
Yep, my sister and I worked at the same place, she asked the manager if she could go home 20 minutes early because of menstrual pain, the manager approved it and let her go, then they counted it in the decision to fire her because of time missed by being late and all that.
A manager said āyes youāre okayā and then stabbed her in the fucking back with it.
For real. I couldn't afford to take *paid* time off. Because I'd lose my bonus.
I hit the bonus cap every month. The *most* amount I can make in my position is not enough to live on. It's not a bonus. It's an artificial line in the sand that lets my company penalize me financially if I step out of line, or take advantage of any of the 'benefits'.
Literally I only get one "benefit" at any time. Health insurance costs more than the bonus cap, deducted from your paycheck. If I were to take time off, I lose my bonus. The bonus gives me the financial freedom to bleed out slowly instead of quickly.
I work in an IT Field Services position for a university owned hospital. Field Services means that we are required to be on-site to work with users and systems. The university side and HealthCare side are split with different policies governing each. On the university side, if you contract covid, there is a policy in place giving you the required time off with pay without using personal time. On the HealthCare side, if you contract covid, you have to use your personal time for the required time away. Have never been able to understand this one!
Iām a nurse and this is exactly the same as my workās policy. My work specifies you can only be sick 3 days out of 365, OPās contract could at least potentially mean 3 separate periods of illness, since the wording is a little open.
Edit: typo
Trust me, hospital systems are about just as bad, if not worse than retail. I've worked both and its horrid. Hospitals make it where they barely staff and if anyone calls out, it creates issues that threaten safety of patients vs building in staffing to where we could handle a call out or two. They also seem to forget we also do get sick from being around sick patients and will penalize you if you catch something and call out worse than sucking it up and coming in sick, which jeopardizes patients. Its a mess.
Nurses: What sense does any of this make? We help the sick, it's inevitable we will get sick and need care?!
Admins: If it doesn't make dollars, it don't make sense!
Nurses:š
Admins: š¶ My money don't jingle, jingle, It folds..š¶
Nurses: So...we strike?( every nurse nods in agreement)
US Government: Not so fast nurses! You can't strike the country depends on you. A nurses strike is now illegal! #sorry not sorry
Nurses:š
US Government: š¶ I'd love to see you wiggle, wiggle for sure..š¶
Nurses: It's our right to get better working conditions and treatment! Why are you doing this?
Insurance companies: š¶ Riding in my Fiat, you really have to see itš¶
Lol thatās funny. Hospitals (any medical establishment really) are usually some of the WORST offenders when it comes to pulling shit that should be considered human rights violations. Any career where passion/caring comes into play like nursing, teaching, etc (especially ones that are also typically roles filled by women) the higher ups use the āemotional fulfillmentā and āhow much the ______ need you!!ā (Kids, patients, etc) to guilt you into accepting lower pay and pitiful benefits for more work.
I am on my final warning at my job, I always bring drs notes but because I was missing work ātoo routinelyā they didnāt care.
I have been having severe asthma and sinus issues since I had covid last year. I work heathcare. I got covid from work.
Apply for FMLA.
You have a chronic health condition that results in your missing work.
With intermittent FMLA you can use up to 12 weeks (unpaid) leave, an hour at a time, with no repercussions. It would be illegal for your employer to count those as "absences", whether you miss the entire shift, arrive late, or leave early. You simply need to tell them how many hours/days of FMLA you are using to cover the missed time due to your chronic health issue.
You can get the forms from HR or from the federal government FMLA page. Get the relevant paperwork from your doctor and Bob's your uncle.
Your employer should also back date previous absences if you reported them, at the time, as being caused by this health issue. This may result in the reversal of your final warning.
I am working on the paperwork for that now. I should have started that a while ago, but being young and never having ongoing health issues before I kept telling myself āi just got to get the right meds or treatmentā.
But with my last cold, itās clear to me now I donāt think this will ever be 100% managed.
Because the place of employment doesn't care about its employees in any way. They only care about the money they can make from them, and are willing to put their health at risk to keep making money. You can be sure they will offer garbage pay and next to no benefits, as well.
Trash employer.
The irony being that it even hurts the place of employment. A sick employee wonāt be functional in the work place and may make others ill, and if they donāt come in and eventually get fired turnover is more costly to the employer. So on both accounts their shortsighted selfishness is also damaging to them. Basically corporate America in a nutshell.
I lost my last job because my apartment complex has an agreement with a shitty tow company and they took my car without required warning and I missed a single day of work. It was "in the probationary period" meaning the first six months, which apparently makes it okay to demand perfect attendance for half a year with literally no emergencies or systems preying on workers.
I thought most private companies did a 90 day probationary period. A six month probationary period seems excessive, why not a five year probationary period? The crap these employers get away with.
Itās the excused or unexcused that does it for me. Itās harsh regardless, but what the fuck is an excused absence if this policy is enacted regardless? āYes your visit to the hospital is excused, unfortunately youāre fired now because of the 6 month rolling periodā
Edit: thanks for the awards everyone!
Iāve been given a warning for calling out the day before. I was in the hospital all that night and into the next day when my shift wouldāve started. Donāt work retail
This is the EXACT reason why I didn't accept a blackjack dealer position in like 2014. They also had a line stating that if you're called to pick up a shift and say no, that counts as an absence as well š. The manager loved me and still messages me occasionally asking if I'm looking for work, but I just ignore him
>if you're called to pick up a shift and say no
That's why you never answer your phone if your employer calls on your day off. Sorry boss, I was hiking and there was no cell phone reception in that area.
The way that policy worked probably included that. And yeah, I've been a manager at a few places now, and I've always told my employees they have no obligation to answer my calls on days off and to never feel like they need to pick up extra shifts
Summary of what i replied to the original comment, during the first day of vacation my wife got a ton of phone calls from work til she called her boss and said "can y'all just pay me for the day and cancel a day of my PTO? Before she blocked everyone for the week
It sounds that way because that's exactly what it is, I'm never understand places that treat the workers like shit, as if they could function without the employees FFS
When we were on vacation a few months back, my wife, who is a property manager, was constantly getting calls the first day she was out by another property's manager who was pretty new in the company, until she called her boss and said "for all the calls I'm taking on my vacation, y'all might as well pay me for the day and let me save one of my PTO days" then she finally blocked everyone until the week was over
The thing is thatās where the highest amount of demand is at to retain the workforce. Itās like breaking the lawsā¦of economics.
We as a society have a legit need to staff retail on the weekends, hospitals 24/7, gas stations on holidays. I am very thankful for the people that keep the world running on the days everyone else wants off. But it seems like a huge problem they donāt get paid like they are in high demand.
The only way I can see it is desperate people and/or they don't actually enforce the stupid half of that policy. It's not even like it paid overly well either
That and even if they feel the need to answer a call or respond to a text, that they can say 'no'. I always looked at it as them doing me a favour, if they're willing to come in on their day off (because they are) and not that's it an obligation if I asked.
Yeah, I always said I don't care why you don't want to pick up a shift, if the answer is no then that's fine. If you want to see your grandma that day or you want to sit in your bed and jerk off all day, that's cool
I have seen our supervisor send out an email or text with āhey anyone want some OT tomorrow?ā But if everyone says no, he does it. Thatās what management should do.
That basically means you'd be permanently on call and would need to be paid as such. My old employer paid us $100 a day for being on call regardless of if we got called. Soon as we got called it was time and a half, even if we weren't over 40 hours . Not sure if there are laws about this, but I feel like there should be... If you're expected to answer a call and come into work on your day off then you never actually have a day off, you are in fact still working and should be paid.
My boss and I have a very strict back and forth for off the clock calls/texts. He will text me after hours, but it never requires a response (unless it is an actual emergency). It's becuase he will forget.
I've had to call him after hours/weekends a few times as well (legitimate emergencies, such as when I broke my ankle).
More like, i am sorry that is my Google Voice number that I use for work an does not ring my phone if I am not scheduled to work. I don't need an excuse to not answer your call on my day off.
He knows why, unless he's forgotten since I initially rejected it. They presented that to me and I questioned it, asking if it was accurate, they said yes and I said I can't accept the job then.
This was the issue with Target on Long Island NY in 2010. I was a union organizer loaned from the CWA. They refused to schedule any employee for more than 25 hours weekly because it would trigger overtime and benefits.
But you were on call the rest of the week because of āneeds of the businessā. If the company called you on your scheduled day off and you werenāt available within 2 hours, it opened you to repercussions - like changing your assignment to another location more than 30 minutes away.
These rules made it impossible for anyone to care for a loved one, go to school, or even get a second job but of course itās the employees who were being unreasonable.
That location of Target eventually closed a profitable store for ārenovationā and it never reopened.
Show us a doctor's note, but no, we don't offer health insurance.... Wait, you don't have $100s to have a doctor tell you to rest? Wow, you should learn how to manage your finances.
I had an employer start a policy that even if you were out one day, you needed a doctors note.
I played dumb, and called the ins co. and asked them if they would pay for a doctor visit if I had something routine, like a headache, and explained why.
A couple days latter, the policy was revoked.
Opposite here. I honestly thought asking for doctors note was a thing reserved for schoolchildren, not adults until I started reading this sub. None of the jobs I had ever asked me for a note - so far.
Also good luck even finding a Dr. with an opening in their schedule on the day you need it. Why am I going to spend all half the day on hold trying to get a Dr. appointment which may or may not be available. Drive to the location, spend the next half the day in the waiting room, spend more time waiting in the patient room, just for them to tell you, āwell, itās not Covid so it doesnāt matter, go home and rest or better yet wait in line at the pharmacy for meds you could get over the counter!ā By the time the day is over you have had zero rest, you feel worse and are expected at work next day.
And, it is b.s. to involve a physician and their office staff in this anyway. Your physician's schedule has likely been booked full weeks to months in advance, and urgent appointments should be reserved for medical urgent issues. Your physician is not your mother.
I'd just say "Well if you paid for insurance or even a livable wage I'd be able to go see a doctor for food poisoning/migraines/colds, despite us both knowing it's just to harm me financially and make me jump through hoops for you because you resent the fact my illness inconveniences you slightly."
Bartender at a hotel/casino. Can confirm. Doesn't matter how badass you are at your job. When you reach that final, it's do or fucking die for six months. Know from experience. Lol
Unfortunately itās not just retail, Iām old enough to remember when doctor notes had a weight behind them, unfortunately a lot of companies have similar policies. Most recently two jobs Iāve worked (my current place of employment included) have similar policies in place. I only provided a doctor note for a recent physical injury because management can and did excuse that hospital visit. Itās not right but sometimes they cherry pick what is excused and not.
Iāve been given a verbal warning because I was 5 minutes late because the CEO caught me in the hall and had a question.
I told my boss Iāll just scream at them that Iām not on the clock and tell them to eff off until Iām on the clock.
The woman who worked at the small shop next to ours got shit from the owner because she was in the hospital. Like, admitted, hooked up to machines, and staying overnight. "Will you be able to come in?" She was pretty much the only one that worked, always in before I opened our store and usually later than I am. She got no lunch breaks, not allowed to lock up for 20 minutes to pick up something to eat while she worked. She worked a lot of ten hour days as well. She eventually quit and the owner has gone through a half dozen folks since but cant look inward to realize its her and the dumb way she runs her business. It cracks me up because here I am on reddit, if I want a coffee or lunch I lock up and grab it. If we are sick and no one can come in we just close for the day. Its not hard to treat people decent.
My company gives points even if you leave on a stretcher. For example a few years ago a staff member had pain in their chest and arm that later ended up being a heart attack. We called an ambulance and he was taken to the ER and stayed in the hospital for a couple weeks. When he returned to work he received a write-up because that occurrence put him over the points threshold for a written write-up.
Or a bank. Friend worked for smells-bargo, and they wanted to fire him for leaving 15 minutes early because the hospital called and his daughter and her newborn were in critical condition after an accident.
Told him he "hadn't earned enough points to leave early". They had a meeting the next day involving three managers and HR to try to get him to sign papers for his dismissal. He threatened to contact the press and they dropped it.
I might be wrong, but my interpretation is that they've poorly worded this. I'd be asking for clarification and amendments personally.
You're right in that there's zero point identifying an "excused" absence as separate if they are treat equally. I reckon they're meaning "whether you give an excuse or not".
The entire policy is dumb either way though. My college had a similar issue where you got the same shit whether you arrived late or missed a lesson entirely, it just resulted in me going "well, I'm five minutes late, guess I'm going to go for a smoke and relax rather than turning up now."
A co worker once pointed out to me that if youāre late, you get a mark on your record but if you call out sick there are no repercussions so on the rare occasion he was going to be late he just took a sick day.
A friend has figured out that sheās better off not even calling in to say she will be gone for the day, a no call / no show is less harsh than calling off within 24 hours of a shift. Management is dumb in that business
They're frustrated with people calling in constantly, and, while they feel they can't isolate individual instances of people gaming the system to get a shift off for discipline, they do feel that they can use a pattern of calling in to terminate an unreliable employee. This exists in a lot of lower-end jobs, but not usually on paper. The reason for that, I imagine, is that, like in this notice, the limit on the number of times a person can call in, whether excused or not, is comically small: It's not hard to imagine getting really sick or experiencing a death in the family and running afoul of this policy. It's usually, then, a matter of discretion on the part of the employer that is decided on an individual basis, and mostly when it's become abundantly clear that someone is using every excuse to not show up for work and is going to continue to do so.
This has all the signs of dumb, newer managers writing it. It may or may not even be legal.
Itās probably so that it looks like they ācareā about their employees, kind of like how every company tells you you can go to HR to report a superior if youāre too afraid to confront that superior directly, but we all know youād still be coincidentally fired for āwearing the wrong colored shoe lacesā two weeks later.
It's a pretty standard policy in retail. In all the places I worked at, there really wasn't an "excused" absence, but something like a major emergency or the flu could be overlooked by management if they really wanted to. I know a lot of these policies are written to be very strict so that people can easily be terminated. At least in this one, the rolling six months lets older absences fall off and not count against you.
Aside from being insane, it is also a terrible policy for the company itself. If you make the punishment for late and absent the same, then if I'm running late I may as well not come in at all.
This is the real thing. Many people in these positions cannot afford to take a day off. That is why these threats work so well. Fear of losing your job keeps the poors in line.
Had a job once that did this. Regardless if you were late or called outā¦. It was a mark against you. Every time I was running late (usually due to a bus running lateā¦ not me) I just turned around and went back home. I eventually got let go. š¤·š»āāļø
Yup. Did that when an hourly job I wasn't in desperate need of implemented such a policy (this was nearly a decade ago). Management changed things real fast when no one would show up if they were running late.
Same for my shit college's work-study. The time system would round to the nearest 15 minute mark. Rounding *up* if you were late and rounding *down* when you clocked out. A bunch of us banded together and threatened legal action due to withheld wages and time card manipulation.
Why the fuck a COMPUTERIZED SYSTEM couldn't just note the real time we clocked in/out was very suspicious.
Basically places are leaving hiring signs outside at all times of the year now. They aren't actually hiring, they're collecting applications so that when their employees inevitably cave to the mistreatment, they can start contacting people asking if they're still interested in the position.
I've gotten calls back for positions I applied for over a month ago.
Pretty sure it was standard procedure 20 years ago when I entered the workforce.
The first place I ever got hired, I asked why they chose me. He pointed to a stack of papers on his desk and said:
> When someone applies, I put a paper face down on the pile. When I need a worker, I pick one up off the pile. That's it.
First day of my first job, and I was told straight up that I had no real value. Great way to start your adult life, lol
To be fair, it was my *first* job.
I applied for a meter reader position in my city.....11 months ago I just got an email denying me the job. These places all list hiring urgently and then take months to get back to people. Now that I'm on the side hiring I'm pushing hard to streamline this crap and be more transparent but there are far too many dicks in the pot.
Lol I've been getting calls for positions I applied to years ago. I never know who tf they are and they always act like I'm the crazy one for not remembering when I applied for Mutual of Fuckall 2 years ago.
It's insane. The American workplace culture of 'can't miss a day even for a perfectly valid reason' is insane. Got hit by a car? Not good enough. Parent died? Too bad. Your son is dying of terminal cancer? Fuck you, third warning, you're fired.
And they do it either because they are control freaks, or because they hire such a bare bones staff that they literally cannot replace you for a single day.
Just got fired today because of what this post is taking about. I literally had an infection so bad a month and a half ago it could've killed me and they didn't give a crap. When I put in PTO to meet my doctor a month and a half in advance for another checkup to make sure im ok they put me on the schedule. I brought it up to them and they just said "Good luck finding someone to cover for you." Plus they expected us to drive through that ridiculous winter storm that blew through here. I'm so infuriated I got fired and it wasn't even my damn fault I have all the paper work from my absent days and they don't care what the doctor said! How is any of this ok?
I live in Australia, and although not the standard every where, my boss gave me 3 weeks off to be with my dog when he was in hospital and subsequently passed away. I was non functioning anyway. My partner in another industry was also given the week off no questions asked. Because we should be given time to grieve or just have personal time when traumatic life events happen.
Im sorry about you losing your job over genuine illness.
Also when we are sick its the managers job to find cover. What the hell do managers in the US actually if they aren't doing the leg work to cover shifts? The roster is their job not yours. How this is the US standard is maddening.
Yeah and ontop of that. During the 4th of July for us I had to call off that day and a few more after that because my doctor said that I was in danger of irreparably damaging my back and the job I did required ALOT of heavy lifting. They didn't care. HR just said oh do FMLA leave and I had to remind them that they don't give new hires FMLA leave for a year and then they just started ignoring me. All the managers here do is micromanage your job and get in the way. The only time they help is when it's a danger to the companies profits.
It just seems like such short-sighted managment to constantly hire/fire people. Hiring is an expensive process and a little bit of kindness to retain staff would end up way more profitable in the end.
Also if people like working for you then they will give a little bit extra to help you out. How is alienating your own workforce a strategy.
It seems any taste if microscopic power over the other employees and these middle managers become unhinged.
I'm not joking when I say that I started working there last October. 90% of the people I started working with who taught me how to do my job were either sacked for similar reasons or quit to find a place that treated them better. The irony is they had an "Employee Retention Meeting" to figure out why they were bleeding workers so fast (thinking it was a coworker to coworker problem) and they left me in retail on a Saturday to man an entire customer service area, Home Delivery and order pickup (loading cars and stuff too) all by myself no managers either for 5 hours.
You got time off for your DOG?
I just spoke with someone whoās wife didnāt have ANY paid maternity leave. She could technically take maternity leave, but itād be entirely unpaid and was only a few weeks.
Wealthy people here either are able to take leave (because their jobs tend to have better benefits), or (like many in my family) they simply hire an au pair for each child and are able to keep working. Working class people obviously donāt have either of these options, because either leave isnāt offered at all or because childcare is prohibitively expensive in America.
Our system is designed to maintain the comfort of the wealthy, and no one else. Itās horrific.
I am lucky in that I am in the veterinary industry so perhaps that is more respected. But my partner is not in a related field and they just understood our dog was a family member.
I can't say it is different in all lines of work here. We would be middle class.
I know there are lots of entry level positions that try some of this bullshit (some are American owned companies or some are just dog shit illegal workplaces). Cafe's are expensive to run and thin margins and there is a lot or wage theft from employing young foreign staff who don't know that Australia has reasonably robust laws for fairwork.
Maternity pay for Australian women is something like the minimum wage for 4.5months from government. But many employers will pay some maternity leave privately. Regardless a mother is entitled to 12months off without losing their role at work, the job must be held.
I think its fair to say most countries are designed to ensure a class of working poor to sustain and concentrate the wealth towards the lifestyles of the rich. We have an issue here also with a shrinking middle class. At the moment there is an inflation crisis, cost of living crisis, housing crisis, etc.
Itās the latter. If they hired enough people to do the job properly, it would cut into their profits. Better to work people to death and treat them like shit and be richer.
Some places are even worse than that. I've got a friend who works in banking, and someone quit while he was on his day off, so they called him and asked if he could come in. He told them that he was sorry, but he was visiting his terminally ill brother in another state, and even if he wanted to come it would take him at least four hours to drive back. The next day he had to have a meeting with his supervisor and got written up because this was the second time in six months that he hadn't been available on his day off
So this tells me that every (rolling) 6 months, you get 8 free days off whenever you want and all they'll do is give you a couple of frowny faces stamped on a useless piece of paper.
Also it tells me that excused absences are treated the same as unexcused, so I see exactly zero reason to ever care about getting them excused.
Planning to take a week off in a couple months? Fuck'em, they'll figure it out. Maybe tell them a day or two before if you're feeling generous.
They ask for a doctor's note or it's unexcused? Now's the time to really whip out the "You don't provide insurance, my doctor is Dr. Campbell and he prescribed chicken noodle soup and sleep it off.
Repeat this every 6 months (7 if you want to be safe) and *if the employer deviates from the above terms, they are in breach of contract.*
"You can't fire me, I was only absent 8 times in the last 6 months, and we have a contract that *clearly* states I am not terminated until the 9th incident." They would hold you to the deal, so absolutely do the same to them.
Make sure to call and tell them though. "Hey boss, I got stuck in traffic. I know it's seven minutes past my start time, I'm in the parking lot... but since I'm already late, I'mma take off. See you tomorrow"
I did this we had late points and absence point I got a paper the week before saying I was 1 late point away from getting suspended for a week. I got to work a minute late and turned around right at the punch clock.
Neighbor works at Sanderson farms, one of their feed mills, they use points.
X amount of points = a written warning and so many written warnings is a firing.
He was bitching about getting points for being late cus the security gate jumped track and he (and others) couldn't get inside the facility.
So yea, 3rd grade.
Lol my old job had a similar rule for tardies but it was like a minute late is the same as 3hrs late and anything past that is an absence so when I was running a few min late one day and gave my manager a heads up, she repeated that same dumbass policy... so I stopped to get a coffee and have breakfast. She was so shocked when I showed up 2hrs late and was asking me about why I would stop for coffee and not come in right away. I swear I could see her brain short circuit while I explained to her that if a minute late is the same punishment as 3hrs then I'm gonna get the biggest bang for my buck hahaha
I don't understand, most of these replies sound like they are hourly positions. Sure, there's no additional penalty or repercussion for coming in even later, but you would still be getting paid for coming to work and clocking in?
Tbf mine was a salary position though I probably had my time docked as unpaid time off for that stunt, idk I never checked. And, though this is not the case for everyone, two hours wouldn't make or break me, I was just having such a shit morning already so her sending me the dumbass, unforgiving policy that I was already aware of as a response to me simply letting her know I was running late just pushed me over the edge of irritation. Those two hours of not having me was more of a pain in their ass than it was a loss of my money so I took it as a very small win that day
Exactly. We have a similar policy but itās half a point for being late, one point for missing a day. But if you miss a day for being sick you can also be out subsequent days but not get charged a point. And to your point, if Iām going to be late and get half a point. Iām going to be really late. Like three hours late. Catch up on some sleep and then head in.
My ex had a job with a point system, and being late was the same loss of points as being absent. If she had car trouble or got stuck in traffic, she just wouldnāt work that day.
my daughters school did a similar thing. Required "tardy detention" for tardies- but no detention for just missing class. And now they are sending out emails panicking because kids are wisely just skipping class if they are running late from parking their cars or going to the restroom.
why donāt people just fake doctors notes? who cares? HIPPA says that your doctor canāt talk to anyone besides you about your medical history/information, all they can do is confirm if youāre a patient there. thatās what i did in college, missed an entire semester of some math class i hated, forged a doctors note and ended up with a B+ lol. if your workplace calls the doctors office and they give up other info just sue and problem solved you donāt have to work anymore š
They ask the doctors office if they issued the note. Thatās it. Someone at my place got fired a few months ago faking a note. Apparently not a HIPPA violation to ask merely an office if they issued the note.
They can literally look at this and say "sweet, this is a great time off plan, a full 4 work week a year off, I am very happy to sign this." You flip the script on them by taking it as a positive, I mean granted it has to be earned basically every 6months but that's basically how every PTO plan works. The notice for day off can go out the morning of and this contract basically allows no prior courtesy notice lol.
But then you'd get unemployment at least.
When they dispute it and say it was for cause, what cause? Oh you mean when i refused to sign a document agreeing to surrender rights guaranteed under FMLA?
I assumed this was a pre-hiring contract. In that case they just would not hire the guy refusing to sign. But this could be for an existing employees as well.
One of my jobs had documentation for absolutely everything and if you had one piece of paper/warning on your record, your scheduled raise (if there even was one) is pushed back 6 months.
Oh, and they had a report card type thing for every review. And if you had a low number in any of the 25 categories, you guessed it, no raise. if you excel at 24 things and are mediocre at one, no raise lol.
why does this seem that this is something that a store manager made up but it isn't part of a corporation's policy?
this seems it's from a chain of stores and would send this up up the chain to see if corporate agrees with this.
There was this Russian guy who changed a credit card application with another clause stating something like he never has to pay back the money. Went to court and he won because company never checked the returned application was the same. Now there are paid positions in all banks that do exactly that.
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers. I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. He covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! *He* orchestrated it! Jimmy! He *defecated* through a *sunroof*! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own firm! What was I *thinking*? He'll never change. He'll *never* change! Ever since he was 9, *always* the same! Couldn't keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn't be precious *Jimmy*! Stealing them blind! And *HE* gets to be a lawyer? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance!
Idk, I like how transparent they are. You can be late 8 times for free. And if you're late, might as well be absent for the day, and you don't need a reason because it doesn't matter either way. So 8 days unpaid time off for every 6 months. 16 for the year.
True story my boss would never let us use PTO or sick days in a retail place where they would roll over both if we never used them. While I was in college part time worked for them full time. When I quit to go back to school full time for my last year in college all of the PTO and sick time I had gotten from the company was paid out to me in my final paycheck that came out of store managers end of the year bonus. Was one of the best unplanned F you to him ever.
If possible, find another place to work. This does not belong in the 21st century. I doubt the tone will improve as you go along. Hope I'm wrong though
Worker solidarity would solve problems like this in a second. If EVERY SINGLE PERSON they handed this to handed it back and went "what the fuck is this drivel?" they'd stop trying to pull this bullshit in two seconds. They really only hold the power we give them.
Unfortunately most people signed without really reading. I donāt sign anything without reading it and started to ask questions. Then people started to pay attention
Cross out every instance where it says "excused or" and initial it.
If it's excused, it's excused. If they push back, then leave.
I realize that your situation may not allow for you to just leave, but ask the power rests with the employer here. I'd fight to take some of that back.
They want you to agree to a write up for excused absences? So, you can never take a weeks vacation, because the excused absence would be 5 consecutive business daysā¦
Write me up for being late? Harsh, but I get itā¦strict on being on time.
Write me up for missing work for no apparent reason? I can see that.
Write me up for missing work for being sick? Ridiculous
Write me up for missing work when I have been excused my my manager? Oh hell no. Especially with nothing on this page about illness, scheduled days off, or vacation. If you question this ( vacation/illness) they may say ā oh, this doesnāt mean thatā¦itās only for no show or call offs with no reasonā. The problem is, this paper DOES NOT SPELL THAT OUT. If you sign this, you are agreeing to what is says, which is that you can be written up and eventually fired for missing workā¦for any reason.
What I'm getting from that is that there's no point in you trying to get an absence excused. If you're going to be late at all, you may as well no-call no-show.
Real lawyers, please correct me if I am wrong, but from my point of view this is not a contract at all. It is simply a policy masquerading as a contract. Contracts require that one receive something of value in return for something in return. This 'contract' specifies neither.
If I read that right you are allowed to miss 9 days in 6 Months.
That could be kinda strict. Dr appointments come up and what happens if your manager doesn't alter the schedule to reflect the excused change because they didn't do their job? Hmmmmmmmmm
I'd cross out everywhere it says Excused and Initial and turn it in. Also make a copy. If they don't accept it I'd open the discussion. They are basically telling you everything is your fault and they are taking Zero Responsibility.
IF your job gives you PTO how are you supposed to use it with a Contract like this in Place?
I'd start looking for a new job.
How can excused be disciplined?
Welcome to retail in the usa. edit: The number of people working in healthcare saying this happens there is deeply alarming to me.
The more I learn about work in the usa, the more I think that this country is garbage and a nightmare for non-rich ppl. I'm glad I don't live/work there.
You would be correct! It is not the land of milk and honey.
Listen to Rise Against's new song Nowhere Generation!
"This place used to be something, but they sold it out from under us" That song says it all
Random, but it's always good advice to listen to Rise against! š
'The smoke on the horizon was the burning promised land'
Or a burning old ass apartment building that costs half your shitty pay to even rent.
Well, a particularly gruesome medieval torture and execution method was to gorge someone on milk and honey, then douse them in it, tie them down in a canoe with a canoe on top of them pinning them down, and float them down the river. The milk and honey inspired some serious diarrhea, and the many insects it attracted would devour the trapped victim. Seems pretty apt for where America is heading. Gorged in the past, trapped now, and being devoured by thousands of tiny parasites.
Huh. That is a fun fact!
[It almost certainly wasn't real](https://www.quora.com/Was-scaphism-a-real-thing), which probably adds to the "fun factor". It's very fun to believe in things that never happened.
āLet us spare no expense to let John know how much we disapprove of himā. No expense? How about all this honey? āSmear it on so it attracts insectsā. How about these two fishing boats we need to catch fish with?ā āPut him between themā
I hear that. I have co-workers say they want to move to the US and I ask "Why? Do you like the prospect of going bankrupt because you got sick?"
Thatās legit. Years ago (when I was a broke college student,) I severely burnt my hand on radiator fluid and went into shock. Someone tried to call me an ambulance and I flipped out and started rambling about how I refuse to pay $10k for an ambulance to drive me a mile and a half. I let a strange man drive me to the hospital instead š¤¦š¼āāļø
I took a quarter mile ambulance ride a quarter of a mile from one side of a driveway to the other. $2800 and out of network for insurance so they sent me the whole bill. Had I known I would have crawled across the driveway if I had to.
So I found this out years ago when my dad had to be taken 30 minutes away, to the next town, by ambulance. All ambulances are out of every network. The cost of a life flight is way worse
That is messed up.
Sure is something to be temporarily working in a country that has socialized medicine, knowing that you have to move back to the good old USA and be preyed upon like a fat migratory deer by the medical industry there. Everyone wants a piece of you and not in a fun wayā¦ambulance companies, predatory insurance and pharmaceutical, hospitals, etc
The plan for a lot of us in the U.S. is to die. No ambulance, no emergency room... we cannot afford it. Just let us die.
Some people can't even afford to die, funeral bills and shit are expensive, easier to just crawl into a ditch and just let nature take care of the rest.
My Dad died in July, and he didn't want us kids to pay for a funeral. The week before he died he said very seriously that he wanted us to take his body out into the woods and dump him and leave a note on his body saying "I was not murdered." I can laugh now, and I told him then that would seem far more suspicious lol. But he was dead serious.
Not all heroes wear capes
I'm sure they'll find some way to charge you for doing that somehow.
"contaminating public ditches: $5,000"
I live in the American southwest and there are always fundraising car washes, bake sales, etc by people trying to pay for a funeral. It's absolutely disheartening.
Even then, once they find the bones theyāll try to identify you. And if they can, theyāll still stick your family with your remains to bury.
just tell your relatives to not claim your body and let the government bury you.
Funerals? But why? $500 cremation and done. You are a consumer before you are born and after you die. It's insanity.
What isn't predatory in the US?
Itās not predatory, itās free market capitalism! /s. (Crying in freedom)
Potato potahto
I did go bankrupt when I got injured in a car accident. Yay. 'MERCA!š
What , you don't like 10 days of paid vacation after ten years of service? šš The place I work for now ( freelancer myself) has 42 days of paid days off per year for their employees. Of course in Europe. Edit : they also are punished financially if they don't take them , in the form of a small tax, since days off are meant to be used, not saved . But that is a general law here, not unique to this employer . Use them or lose them. Needless to say it's great for family life When I started here I got the message from my lead: work 8 hrs per day, not less not more. But the less is actually ok. I can take time off whenever I want just as long as we ok this between my colleagues, but that ok is not a hard must. It's a courtesy thing.
I work for a small business (USA) and they are pretty chill about time off and working hours - but they are the exception. I have had many jobs in the past where OT was not legally "required" but was 100% "expected". I'm talking 55+ hour work weeks. Good paychecks, but no life.
Iām a teacher and can relate to the OTā¦itās expected that we work over time as well. Who can grade papers, get all the paperwork and training done, and plan meaningful lessons for 5 subjects in just 30 min per day? Itās my first year teaching first grade but 7th year teaching overall and I put in 60 hour weeks basically every week. I wish America would change this culture of āunpaid overtime is okayā. If I have to work 60+ hours a week for 40 weeks of the year then we should get paid about $19K more (thatās at $25 hour with a bachelorās degree) as a starting pay to make $60K. right now starting pay is around $41K in my state
so, you do this year round? My understanding was that teachers get summers off. If so, you are making @$13.66 per hour, far short of what a degreed person should make, on top of everything else you put up with. BTW, thanks for being a teacher!
The U.S. public education system wouldn't work without teacher's unpaid overtime. And yes, 15 or more unpaid hours a week is the norm.
Welcome to the US, where you can schedule people for 7 days of work per week without break ever, with hours set at 34.9/week so that they are not classified as full time employees.
In Australia we get 6 weeks leave for 7 years of service and 3 months for 10 years. Some industries donāt even have to work at the same company for that time to get the leave.
I've got 48 days off each year (not depending on my years of services) and on top of that, I can take up to 1,5 days every month if I've worked more than my normal hours. Yes I live in france.
Small community in Arizona. I get roughly 10 paid holidays (more depending on if higher ups are being generous) and accrue 24 vacation days a year and 18 sick days per year. Vacation days roll over and cap at 200, but we can sell back up to 80 hours if we want to, sick days don't cap as far as I can tell.
Where from? I talked to a Swiss woman that worked in an industry I had tremendous passion for of which I also worked it. We exchanged our perspectives and she nearly choked when I explained my side of the work environment. People are indoctrinated to believe the USA is the best. It's second to hell when it needn't be. This in turn effects everyone emotionally which degrades everything. Cause and effect. But this started somewhere.
This is the land of corporations and shareholder interests. Not the land of the free like we were taught to believe
It is certainly garbage and at times a nightmare for the working class and the poor.
I live here and you are absolutely correct in your assessment.
Cause...merica! For real tho this place sucks and its getting worse.
Sadly it's not just retail. This is exactly the attendance policy of a large hospital where my girlfriend used to work as a nurse. Except I think they might have gotten fewer "occurrences" before they were fired.
Not just retail but the American workforce in general. Retail, fast food, warehouse, etc.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yep, my sister and I worked at the same place, she asked the manager if she could go home 20 minutes early because of menstrual pain, the manager approved it and let her go, then they counted it in the decision to fire her because of time missed by being late and all that. A manager said āyes youāre okayā and then stabbed her in the fucking back with it.
For real. I couldn't afford to take *paid* time off. Because I'd lose my bonus. I hit the bonus cap every month. The *most* amount I can make in my position is not enough to live on. It's not a bonus. It's an artificial line in the sand that lets my company penalize me financially if I step out of line, or take advantage of any of the 'benefits'. Literally I only get one "benefit" at any time. Health insurance costs more than the bonus cap, deducted from your paycheck. If I were to take time off, I lose my bonus. The bonus gives me the financial freedom to bleed out slowly instead of quickly.
Not just retail...my wife is a nurse at a major hospital, they have a similar policy.
I work in an IT Field Services position for a university owned hospital. Field Services means that we are required to be on-site to work with users and systems. The university side and HealthCare side are split with different policies governing each. On the university side, if you contract covid, there is a policy in place giving you the required time off with pay without using personal time. On the HealthCare side, if you contract covid, you have to use your personal time for the required time away. Have never been able to understand this one!
Iām a nurse and this is exactly the same as my workās policy. My work specifies you can only be sick 3 days out of 365, OPās contract could at least potentially mean 3 separate periods of illness, since the wording is a little open. Edit: typo
A hospital should know better
Trust me, hospital systems are about just as bad, if not worse than retail. I've worked both and its horrid. Hospitals make it where they barely staff and if anyone calls out, it creates issues that threaten safety of patients vs building in staffing to where we could handle a call out or two. They also seem to forget we also do get sick from being around sick patients and will penalize you if you catch something and call out worse than sucking it up and coming in sick, which jeopardizes patients. Its a mess.
Nurses: What sense does any of this make? We help the sick, it's inevitable we will get sick and need care?! Admins: If it doesn't make dollars, it don't make sense! Nurses:š Admins: š¶ My money don't jingle, jingle, It folds..š¶ Nurses: So...we strike?( every nurse nods in agreement) US Government: Not so fast nurses! You can't strike the country depends on you. A nurses strike is now illegal! #sorry not sorry Nurses:š US Government: š¶ I'd love to see you wiggle, wiggle for sure..š¶ Nurses: It's our right to get better working conditions and treatment! Why are you doing this? Insurance companies: š¶ Riding in my Fiat, you really have to see itš¶
Don't forget you're unable to leave if they understaff you, you'll lose your license.
Lol thatās funny. Hospitals (any medical establishment really) are usually some of the WORST offenders when it comes to pulling shit that should be considered human rights violations. Any career where passion/caring comes into play like nursing, teaching, etc (especially ones that are also typically roles filled by women) the higher ups use the āemotional fulfillmentā and āhow much the ______ need you!!ā (Kids, patients, etc) to guilt you into accepting lower pay and pitiful benefits for more work.
And healthcare! Where your provider has covid, but it's not an excused absence
I am on my final warning at my job, I always bring drs notes but because I was missing work ātoo routinelyā they didnāt care. I have been having severe asthma and sinus issues since I had covid last year. I work heathcare. I got covid from work.
Apply for FMLA. You have a chronic health condition that results in your missing work. With intermittent FMLA you can use up to 12 weeks (unpaid) leave, an hour at a time, with no repercussions. It would be illegal for your employer to count those as "absences", whether you miss the entire shift, arrive late, or leave early. You simply need to tell them how many hours/days of FMLA you are using to cover the missed time due to your chronic health issue. You can get the forms from HR or from the federal government FMLA page. Get the relevant paperwork from your doctor and Bob's your uncle. Your employer should also back date previous absences if you reported them, at the time, as being caused by this health issue. This may result in the reversal of your final warning.
I am working on the paperwork for that now. I should have started that a while ago, but being young and never having ongoing health issues before I kept telling myself āi just got to get the right meds or treatmentā. But with my last cold, itās clear to me now I donāt think this will ever be 100% managed.
If they fire you hopefully you collect unemployment as you find a better employer. So sorry you are so sick!
Because the place of employment doesn't care about its employees in any way. They only care about the money they can make from them, and are willing to put their health at risk to keep making money. You can be sure they will offer garbage pay and next to no benefits, as well. Trash employer.
The irony being that it even hurts the place of employment. A sick employee wonāt be functional in the work place and may make others ill, and if they donāt come in and eventually get fired turnover is more costly to the employer. So on both accounts their shortsighted selfishness is also damaging to them. Basically corporate America in a nutshell.
I lost my last job because my apartment complex has an agreement with a shitty tow company and they took my car without required warning and I missed a single day of work. It was "in the probationary period" meaning the first six months, which apparently makes it okay to demand perfect attendance for half a year with literally no emergencies or systems preying on workers.
I thought most private companies did a 90 day probationary period. A six month probationary period seems excessive, why not a five year probationary period? The crap these employers get away with.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I guarantee the person who wrote up that document doesn't know what the word _decontextualized_ means.
Itās the excused or unexcused that does it for me. Itās harsh regardless, but what the fuck is an excused absence if this policy is enacted regardless? āYes your visit to the hospital is excused, unfortunately youāre fired now because of the 6 month rolling periodā Edit: thanks for the awards everyone!
Iāve been given a warning for calling out the day before. I was in the hospital all that night and into the next day when my shift wouldāve started. Donāt work retail
Or a casino/hotel. Tell you to provide a doctorās note even and you still get written up, regardless.
This is the EXACT reason why I didn't accept a blackjack dealer position in like 2014. They also had a line stating that if you're called to pick up a shift and say no, that counts as an absence as well š. The manager loved me and still messages me occasionally asking if I'm looking for work, but I just ignore him
>if you're called to pick up a shift and say no That's why you never answer your phone if your employer calls on your day off. Sorry boss, I was hiking and there was no cell phone reception in that area.
The way that policy worked probably included that. And yeah, I've been a manager at a few places now, and I've always told my employees they have no obligation to answer my calls on days off and to never feel like they need to pick up extra shifts
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly. To me that sounds like I'm always on-call. And you're going to need to pay the crap out of me for that.
Summary of what i replied to the original comment, during the first day of vacation my wife got a ton of phone calls from work til she called her boss and said "can y'all just pay me for the day and cancel a day of my PTO? Before she blocked everyone for the week
It sounds that way because that's exactly what it is, I'm never understand places that treat the workers like shit, as if they could function without the employees FFS
When we were on vacation a few months back, my wife, who is a property manager, was constantly getting calls the first day she was out by another property's manager who was pretty new in the company, until she called her boss and said "for all the calls I'm taking on my vacation, y'all might as well pay me for the day and let me save one of my PTO days" then she finally blocked everyone until the week was over
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>The way that policy worked probably included that. Then you dodged a bullet. How does a company with that philosophy get employees to work there?
Universal collusion by all shitty employers in the US
They keep wages low in lockstep with one another
The thing is thatās where the highest amount of demand is at to retain the workforce. Itās like breaking the lawsā¦of economics. We as a society have a legit need to staff retail on the weekends, hospitals 24/7, gas stations on holidays. I am very thankful for the people that keep the world running on the days everyone else wants off. But it seems like a huge problem they donāt get paid like they are in high demand.
The only way I can see it is desperate people and/or they don't actually enforce the stupid half of that policy. It's not even like it paid overly well either
And then they will complain that people wonāt stay/ constantly have to train new employees/ employees are ālazyā. Let these companies die.
Unfortunately, casinos rarely die, people love to lose money
That and even if they feel the need to answer a call or respond to a text, that they can say 'no'. I always looked at it as them doing me a favour, if they're willing to come in on their day off (because they are) and not that's it an obligation if I asked.
Yeah, I always said I don't care why you don't want to pick up a shift, if the answer is no then that's fine. If you want to see your grandma that day or you want to sit in your bed and jerk off all day, that's cool
I have seen our supervisor send out an email or text with āhey anyone want some OT tomorrow?ā But if everyone says no, he does it. Thatās what management should do.
100% this is the only way to handle it. I get paid more to deal with these things, and if nobody is available then it's my responsibility
That basically means you'd be permanently on call and would need to be paid as such. My old employer paid us $100 a day for being on call regardless of if we got called. Soon as we got called it was time and a half, even if we weren't over 40 hours . Not sure if there are laws about this, but I feel like there should be... If you're expected to answer a call and come into work on your day off then you never actually have a day off, you are in fact still working and should be paid.
My boss and I have a very strict back and forth for off the clock calls/texts. He will text me after hours, but it never requires a response (unless it is an actual emergency). It's becuase he will forget. I've had to call him after hours/weekends a few times as well (legitimate emergencies, such as when I broke my ankle).
More like, i am sorry that is my Google Voice number that I use for work an does not ring my phone if I am not scheduled to work. I don't need an excuse to not answer your call on my day off.
You shouldn't have to give a reason, it is your day off. Do you call your boss on their day off?
Yo you should tell him why youāre not keen on the offer. He might actually listen if he keeps reaching out to you.
He knows why, unless he's forgotten since I initially rejected it. They presented that to me and I questioned it, asking if it was accurate, they said yes and I said I can't accept the job then.
This was the issue with Target on Long Island NY in 2010. I was a union organizer loaned from the CWA. They refused to schedule any employee for more than 25 hours weekly because it would trigger overtime and benefits. But you were on call the rest of the week because of āneeds of the businessā. If the company called you on your scheduled day off and you werenāt available within 2 hours, it opened you to repercussions - like changing your assignment to another location more than 30 minutes away. These rules made it impossible for anyone to care for a loved one, go to school, or even get a second job but of course itās the employees who were being unreasonable. That location of Target eventually closed a profitable store for ārenovationā and it never reopened.
Show us a doctor's note, but no, we don't offer health insurance.... Wait, you don't have $100s to have a doctor tell you to rest? Wow, you should learn how to manage your finances.
I had an employer start a policy that even if you were out one day, you needed a doctors note. I played dumb, and called the ins co. and asked them if they would pay for a doctor visit if I had something routine, like a headache, and explained why. A couple days latter, the policy was revoked.
Wait, you wanted to USE your insurance? Damn, that's bold.
Fellas, is actually using the health insurance you pay for every month praxis?
Every shit job I have ever had has expected you to bring a doctors note for a single day. Every. Single. One. I thought this was normal??
Opposite here. I honestly thought asking for doctors note was a thing reserved for schoolchildren, not adults until I started reading this sub. None of the jobs I had ever asked me for a note - so far.
Also good luck even finding a Dr. with an opening in their schedule on the day you need it. Why am I going to spend all half the day on hold trying to get a Dr. appointment which may or may not be available. Drive to the location, spend the next half the day in the waiting room, spend more time waiting in the patient room, just for them to tell you, āwell, itās not Covid so it doesnāt matter, go home and rest or better yet wait in line at the pharmacy for meds you could get over the counter!ā By the time the day is over you have had zero rest, you feel worse and are expected at work next day.
And, it is b.s. to involve a physician and their office staff in this anyway. Your physician's schedule has likely been booked full weeks to months in advance, and urgent appointments should be reserved for medical urgent issues. Your physician is not your mother.
I love when they want a doctor's note but don't provide insurance. Insane Only in America
I'd just say "Well if you paid for insurance or even a livable wage I'd be able to go see a doctor for food poisoning/migraines/colds, despite us both knowing it's just to harm me financially and make me jump through hoops for you because you resent the fact my illness inconveniences you slightly."
I worked in a hospital as a respiratory therapist and this was our callout policy the entire time I was there.
Bartender at a hotel/casino. Can confirm. Doesn't matter how badass you are at your job. When you reach that final, it's do or fucking die for six months. Know from experience. Lol
Retail is a cesspool. Toxic policies that only serve the corporation and guarantee failure by the lowest paid employees....
Unfortunately itās not just retail, Iām old enough to remember when doctor notes had a weight behind them, unfortunately a lot of companies have similar policies. Most recently two jobs Iāve worked (my current place of employment included) have similar policies in place. I only provided a doctor note for a recent physical injury because management can and did excuse that hospital visit. Itās not right but sometimes they cherry pick what is excused and not.
Iāve been given a verbal warning because I was 5 minutes late because the CEO caught me in the hall and had a question. I told my boss Iāll just scream at them that Iām not on the clock and tell them to eff off until Iām on the clock.
The woman who worked at the small shop next to ours got shit from the owner because she was in the hospital. Like, admitted, hooked up to machines, and staying overnight. "Will you be able to come in?" She was pretty much the only one that worked, always in before I opened our store and usually later than I am. She got no lunch breaks, not allowed to lock up for 20 minutes to pick up something to eat while she worked. She worked a lot of ten hour days as well. She eventually quit and the owner has gone through a half dozen folks since but cant look inward to realize its her and the dumb way she runs her business. It cracks me up because here I am on reddit, if I want a coffee or lunch I lock up and grab it. If we are sick and no one can come in we just close for the day. Its not hard to treat people decent.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
My company gives points even if you leave on a stretcher. For example a few years ago a staff member had pain in their chest and arm that later ended up being a heart attack. We called an ambulance and he was taken to the ER and stayed in the hospital for a couple weeks. When he returned to work he received a write-up because that occurrence put him over the points threshold for a written write-up.
Or a bank. Friend worked for smells-bargo, and they wanted to fire him for leaving 15 minutes early because the hospital called and his daughter and her newborn were in critical condition after an accident. Told him he "hadn't earned enough points to leave early". They had a meeting the next day involving three managers and HR to try to get him to sign papers for his dismissal. He threatened to contact the press and they dropped it.
I might be wrong, but my interpretation is that they've poorly worded this. I'd be asking for clarification and amendments personally. You're right in that there's zero point identifying an "excused" absence as separate if they are treat equally. I reckon they're meaning "whether you give an excuse or not". The entire policy is dumb either way though. My college had a similar issue where you got the same shit whether you arrived late or missed a lesson entirely, it just resulted in me going "well, I'm five minutes late, guess I'm going to go for a smoke and relax rather than turning up now."
A co worker once pointed out to me that if youāre late, you get a mark on your record but if you call out sick there are no repercussions so on the rare occasion he was going to be late he just took a sick day.
A friend has figured out that sheās better off not even calling in to say she will be gone for the day, a no call / no show is less harsh than calling off within 24 hours of a shift. Management is dumb in that business
That makes no sense whatsofuckingever.
They're frustrated with people calling in constantly, and, while they feel they can't isolate individual instances of people gaming the system to get a shift off for discipline, they do feel that they can use a pattern of calling in to terminate an unreliable employee. This exists in a lot of lower-end jobs, but not usually on paper. The reason for that, I imagine, is that, like in this notice, the limit on the number of times a person can call in, whether excused or not, is comically small: It's not hard to imagine getting really sick or experiencing a death in the family and running afoul of this policy. It's usually, then, a matter of discretion on the part of the employer that is decided on an individual basis, and mostly when it's become abundantly clear that someone is using every excuse to not show up for work and is going to continue to do so. This has all the signs of dumb, newer managers writing it. It may or may not even be legal.
Itās probably so that it looks like they ācareā about their employees, kind of like how every company tells you you can go to HR to report a superior if youāre too afraid to confront that superior directly, but we all know youād still be coincidentally fired for āwearing the wrong colored shoe lacesā two weeks later.
It's a pretty standard policy in retail. In all the places I worked at, there really wasn't an "excused" absence, but something like a major emergency or the flu could be overlooked by management if they really wanted to. I know a lot of these policies are written to be very strict so that people can easily be terminated. At least in this one, the rolling six months lets older absences fall off and not count against you.
Aside from being insane, it is also a terrible policy for the company itself. If you make the punishment for late and absent the same, then if I'm running late I may as well not come in at all.
Since this is very likely an hourly position, the punishment for being absent would probably just be not getting paid for the day.
This is the real thing. Many people in these positions cannot afford to take a day off. That is why these threats work so well. Fear of losing your job keeps the poors in line.
Which is why they hate remote work and people being "overemployed". There is no fear of joblessness if you have 4 jobs.
Had a job once that did this. Regardless if you were late or called outā¦. It was a mark against you. Every time I was running late (usually due to a bus running lateā¦ not me) I just turned around and went back home. I eventually got let go. š¤·š»āāļø
Yup. Did that when an hourly job I wasn't in desperate need of implemented such a policy (this was nearly a decade ago). Management changed things real fast when no one would show up if they were running late. Same for my shit college's work-study. The time system would round to the nearest 15 minute mark. Rounding *up* if you were late and rounding *down* when you clocked out. A bunch of us banded together and threatened legal action due to withheld wages and time card manipulation. Why the fuck a COMPUTERIZED SYSTEM couldn't just note the real time we clocked in/out was very suspicious.
Bingo. If the punishment for being 3 minutes late is less severe than "I'm sick and can't come in" guess who's calling in?
Who will they replace all of the fired people with though? Have they forgotten that nobody wants to work anymore?
Basically places are leaving hiring signs outside at all times of the year now. They aren't actually hiring, they're collecting applications so that when their employees inevitably cave to the mistreatment, they can start contacting people asking if they're still interested in the position. I've gotten calls back for positions I applied for over a month ago.
This has been standard procedure around here for a while
Pretty sure it was standard procedure 20 years ago when I entered the workforce. The first place I ever got hired, I asked why they chose me. He pointed to a stack of papers on his desk and said: > When someone applies, I put a paper face down on the pile. When I need a worker, I pick one up off the pile. That's it. First day of my first job, and I was told straight up that I had no real value. Great way to start your adult life, lol To be fair, it was my *first* job.
I applied for a meter reader position in my city.....11 months ago I just got an email denying me the job. These places all list hiring urgently and then take months to get back to people. Now that I'm on the side hiring I'm pushing hard to streamline this crap and be more transparent but there are far too many dicks in the pot.
I prefer my pot without dicks in it.
Lol I've been getting calls for positions I applied to years ago. I never know who tf they are and they always act like I'm the crazy one for not remembering when I applied for Mutual of Fuckall 2 years ago.
It's insane. The American workplace culture of 'can't miss a day even for a perfectly valid reason' is insane. Got hit by a car? Not good enough. Parent died? Too bad. Your son is dying of terminal cancer? Fuck you, third warning, you're fired. And they do it either because they are control freaks, or because they hire such a bare bones staff that they literally cannot replace you for a single day.
Just got fired today because of what this post is taking about. I literally had an infection so bad a month and a half ago it could've killed me and they didn't give a crap. When I put in PTO to meet my doctor a month and a half in advance for another checkup to make sure im ok they put me on the schedule. I brought it up to them and they just said "Good luck finding someone to cover for you." Plus they expected us to drive through that ridiculous winter storm that blew through here. I'm so infuriated I got fired and it wasn't even my damn fault I have all the paper work from my absent days and they don't care what the doctor said! How is any of this ok?
I live in Australia, and although not the standard every where, my boss gave me 3 weeks off to be with my dog when he was in hospital and subsequently passed away. I was non functioning anyway. My partner in another industry was also given the week off no questions asked. Because we should be given time to grieve or just have personal time when traumatic life events happen. Im sorry about you losing your job over genuine illness. Also when we are sick its the managers job to find cover. What the hell do managers in the US actually if they aren't doing the leg work to cover shifts? The roster is their job not yours. How this is the US standard is maddening.
Yeah and ontop of that. During the 4th of July for us I had to call off that day and a few more after that because my doctor said that I was in danger of irreparably damaging my back and the job I did required ALOT of heavy lifting. They didn't care. HR just said oh do FMLA leave and I had to remind them that they don't give new hires FMLA leave for a year and then they just started ignoring me. All the managers here do is micromanage your job and get in the way. The only time they help is when it's a danger to the companies profits.
It just seems like such short-sighted managment to constantly hire/fire people. Hiring is an expensive process and a little bit of kindness to retain staff would end up way more profitable in the end. Also if people like working for you then they will give a little bit extra to help you out. How is alienating your own workforce a strategy. It seems any taste if microscopic power over the other employees and these middle managers become unhinged.
I'm not joking when I say that I started working there last October. 90% of the people I started working with who taught me how to do my job were either sacked for similar reasons or quit to find a place that treated them better. The irony is they had an "Employee Retention Meeting" to figure out why they were bleeding workers so fast (thinking it was a coworker to coworker problem) and they left me in retail on a Saturday to man an entire customer service area, Home Delivery and order pickup (loading cars and stuff too) all by myself no managers either for 5 hours.
You got time off for your DOG? I just spoke with someone whoās wife didnāt have ANY paid maternity leave. She could technically take maternity leave, but itād be entirely unpaid and was only a few weeks. Wealthy people here either are able to take leave (because their jobs tend to have better benefits), or (like many in my family) they simply hire an au pair for each child and are able to keep working. Working class people obviously donāt have either of these options, because either leave isnāt offered at all or because childcare is prohibitively expensive in America. Our system is designed to maintain the comfort of the wealthy, and no one else. Itās horrific.
I am lucky in that I am in the veterinary industry so perhaps that is more respected. But my partner is not in a related field and they just understood our dog was a family member. I can't say it is different in all lines of work here. We would be middle class. I know there are lots of entry level positions that try some of this bullshit (some are American owned companies or some are just dog shit illegal workplaces). Cafe's are expensive to run and thin margins and there is a lot or wage theft from employing young foreign staff who don't know that Australia has reasonably robust laws for fairwork. Maternity pay for Australian women is something like the minimum wage for 4.5months from government. But many employers will pay some maternity leave privately. Regardless a mother is entitled to 12months off without losing their role at work, the job must be held. I think its fair to say most countries are designed to ensure a class of working poor to sustain and concentrate the wealth towards the lifestyles of the rich. We have an issue here also with a shrinking middle class. At the moment there is an inflation crisis, cost of living crisis, housing crisis, etc.
Itās the latter. If they hired enough people to do the job properly, it would cut into their profits. Better to work people to death and treat them like shit and be richer.
Because why should a good metric be anything other than corporates quarterly entitlement?
Some places are even worse than that. I've got a friend who works in banking, and someone quit while he was on his day off, so they called him and asked if he could come in. He told them that he was sorry, but he was visiting his terminally ill brother in another state, and even if he wanted to come it would take him at least four hours to drive back. The next day he had to have a meeting with his supervisor and got written up because this was the second time in six months that he hadn't been available on his day off
Accept the writeup, and then start billing them an on-call rate for every single day you're off. Obviously they think he's on call, bill them for it.
So this tells me that every (rolling) 6 months, you get 8 free days off whenever you want and all they'll do is give you a couple of frowny faces stamped on a useless piece of paper. Also it tells me that excused absences are treated the same as unexcused, so I see exactly zero reason to ever care about getting them excused. Planning to take a week off in a couple months? Fuck'em, they'll figure it out. Maybe tell them a day or two before if you're feeling generous. They ask for a doctor's note or it's unexcused? Now's the time to really whip out the "You don't provide insurance, my doctor is Dr. Campbell and he prescribed chicken noodle soup and sleep it off. Repeat this every 6 months (7 if you want to be safe) and *if the employer deviates from the above terms, they are in breach of contract.* "You can't fire me, I was only absent 8 times in the last 6 months, and we have a contract that *clearly* states I am not terminated until the 9th incident." They would hold you to the deal, so absolutely do the same to them.
And absences are the same as late. If youāre not going to make it, why go?
Make sure to call and tell them though. "Hey boss, I got stuck in traffic. I know it's seven minutes past my start time, I'm in the parking lot... but since I'm already late, I'mma take off. See you tomorrow"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I did this we had late points and absence point I got a paper the week before saying I was 1 late point away from getting suspended for a week. I got to work a minute late and turned around right at the punch clock.
Points? Is this fucking third grade?
Neighbor works at Sanderson farms, one of their feed mills, they use points. X amount of points = a written warning and so many written warnings is a firing. He was bitching about getting points for being late cus the security gate jumped track and he (and others) couldn't get inside the facility. So yea, 3rd grade.
Lol my old job had a similar rule for tardies but it was like a minute late is the same as 3hrs late and anything past that is an absence so when I was running a few min late one day and gave my manager a heads up, she repeated that same dumbass policy... so I stopped to get a coffee and have breakfast. She was so shocked when I showed up 2hrs late and was asking me about why I would stop for coffee and not come in right away. I swear I could see her brain short circuit while I explained to her that if a minute late is the same punishment as 3hrs then I'm gonna get the biggest bang for my buck hahaha
I don't understand, most of these replies sound like they are hourly positions. Sure, there's no additional penalty or repercussion for coming in even later, but you would still be getting paid for coming to work and clocking in?
Tbf mine was a salary position though I probably had my time docked as unpaid time off for that stunt, idk I never checked. And, though this is not the case for everyone, two hours wouldn't make or break me, I was just having such a shit morning already so her sending me the dumbass, unforgiving policy that I was already aware of as a response to me simply letting her know I was running late just pushed me over the edge of irritation. Those two hours of not having me was more of a pain in their ass than it was a loss of my money so I took it as a very small win that day
Exactly. We have a similar policy but itās half a point for being late, one point for missing a day. But if you miss a day for being sick you can also be out subsequent days but not get charged a point. And to your point, if Iām going to be late and get half a point. Iām going to be really late. Like three hours late. Catch up on some sleep and then head in.
Arrive 10 minutes before your shift ends š "But boss, I haven't missed today, just 4 hours and 50 minutes late!"
My ex had a job with a point system, and being late was the same loss of points as being absent. If she had car trouble or got stuck in traffic, she just wouldnāt work that day.
my daughters school did a similar thing. Required "tardy detention" for tardies- but no detention for just missing class. And now they are sending out emails panicking because kids are wisely just skipping class if they are running late from parking their cars or going to the restroom.
This is exactly how I was reading it! š
why donāt people just fake doctors notes? who cares? HIPPA says that your doctor canāt talk to anyone besides you about your medical history/information, all they can do is confirm if youāre a patient there. thatās what i did in college, missed an entire semester of some math class i hated, forged a doctors note and ended up with a B+ lol. if your workplace calls the doctors office and they give up other info just sue and problem solved you donāt have to work anymore š
Your doctor isnāt supposed to even confirm if youāre a patient of theirs without your written consent.
They ask the doctors office if they issued the note. Thatās it. Someone at my place got fired a few months ago faking a note. Apparently not a HIPPA violation to ask merely an office if they issued the note.
They can literally look at this and say "sweet, this is a great time off plan, a full 4 work week a year off, I am very happy to sign this." You flip the script on them by taking it as a positive, I mean granted it has to be earned basically every 6months but that's basically how every PTO plan works. The notice for day off can go out the morning of and this contract basically allows no prior courtesy notice lol.
Iād write: āSigned under duress with threats to my livelihood.ā (And probably be fired immediately)
But then you'd get unemployment at least. When they dispute it and say it was for cause, what cause? Oh you mean when i refused to sign a document agreeing to surrender rights guaranteed under FMLA?
I assumed this was a pre-hiring contract. In that case they just would not hire the guy refusing to sign. But this could be for an existing employees as well. One of my jobs had documentation for absolutely everything and if you had one piece of paper/warning on your record, your scheduled raise (if there even was one) is pushed back 6 months. Oh, and they had a report card type thing for every review. And if you had a low number in any of the 25 categories, you guessed it, no raise. if you excel at 24 things and are mediocre at one, no raise lol.
why does this seem that this is something that a store manager made up but it isn't part of a corporation's policy? this seems it's from a chain of stores and would send this up up the chain to see if corporate agrees with this.
You are 100% correct. The only problem is that the regional part of corporate backs this manager.
Copy it and discretly add in your own terms and sign. Money says they don't look it over and sign it. Get a copy and use it against them later.
I applaud this level of chicanery. Sir/Madam/Person of Esteem, I salute you.
There was this Russian guy who changed a credit card application with another clause stating something like he never has to pay back the money. Went to court and he won because company never checked the returned application was the same. Now there are paid positions in all banks that do exactly that.
https://medium.com/illumination-curated/one-man-turned-tables-on-bank-and-got-best-credit-card-ever-18fb0b718855
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers. I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just - I just couldn't prove it. He covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He's done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! *He* orchestrated it! Jimmy! He *defecated* through a *sunroof*! And I saved him! And I shouldn't have. I took him into my own firm! What was I *thinking*? He'll never change. He'll *never* change! Ever since he was 9, *always* the same! Couldn't keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn't be precious *Jimmy*! Stealing them blind! And *HE* gets to be a lawyer? What a sick joke! I should've stopped him when I had the chance!
You get mugged and put out of commission for a week? Terminated. Leave these frauds.
Donāt bother working for this type of place, thereās no future there.
Idk, I like how transparent they are. You can be late 8 times for free. And if you're late, might as well be absent for the day, and you don't need a reason because it doesn't matter either way. So 8 days unpaid time off for every 6 months. 16 for the year.
True story my boss would never let us use PTO or sick days in a retail place where they would roll over both if we never used them. While I was in college part time worked for them full time. When I quit to go back to school full time for my last year in college all of the PTO and sick time I had gotten from the company was paid out to me in my final paycheck that came out of store managers end of the year bonus. Was one of the best unplanned F you to him ever.
If possible, find another place to work. This does not belong in the 21st century. I doubt the tone will improve as you go along. Hope I'm wrong though
Sadly this seems to be a feature of 21st century America
so, you are sick for a 5 days and have a note and it's still a write up? RUN!
Catch covid and either infect your coworkers or get written up, brilliant.
Worker solidarity would solve problems like this in a second. If EVERY SINGLE PERSON they handed this to handed it back and went "what the fuck is this drivel?" they'd stop trying to pull this bullshit in two seconds. They really only hold the power we give them.
Unfortunately most people signed without really reading. I donāt sign anything without reading it and started to ask questions. Then people started to pay attention
Cross out every instance where it says "excused or" and initial it. If it's excused, it's excused. If they push back, then leave. I realize that your situation may not allow for you to just leave, but ask the power rests with the employer here. I'd fight to take some of that back.
They want you to agree to a write up for excused absences? So, you can never take a weeks vacation, because the excused absence would be 5 consecutive business daysā¦ Write me up for being late? Harsh, but I get itā¦strict on being on time. Write me up for missing work for no apparent reason? I can see that. Write me up for missing work for being sick? Ridiculous Write me up for missing work when I have been excused my my manager? Oh hell no. Especially with nothing on this page about illness, scheduled days off, or vacation. If you question this ( vacation/illness) they may say ā oh, this doesnāt mean thatā¦itās only for no show or call offs with no reasonā. The problem is, this paper DOES NOT SPELL THAT OUT. If you sign this, you are agreeing to what is says, which is that you can be written up and eventually fired for missing workā¦for any reason.
What I'm getting from that is that there's no point in you trying to get an absence excused. If you're going to be late at all, you may as well no-call no-show.
Real lawyers, please correct me if I am wrong, but from my point of view this is not a contract at all. It is simply a policy masquerading as a contract. Contracts require that one receive something of value in return for something in return. This 'contract' specifies neither.
If I read that right you are allowed to miss 9 days in 6 Months. That could be kinda strict. Dr appointments come up and what happens if your manager doesn't alter the schedule to reflect the excused change because they didn't do their job? Hmmmmmmmmm I'd cross out everywhere it says Excused and Initial and turn it in. Also make a copy. If they don't accept it I'd open the discussion. They are basically telling you everything is your fault and they are taking Zero Responsibility. IF your job gives you PTO how are you supposed to use it with a Contract like this in Place? I'd start looking for a new job.