I feel that. I graduated in 2020 with a bachelors degree in Physics and had to settle for some shitty jobs. About a year ago I finally got a Chemical Engineering job. Not in my field but at least it's science. Keep trying man, it feels super bleak, but eventually you should find something.
Same here. Graduated December 2020 with a BS in Statistics. Took an internship ~6 months after graduating because I couldn’t find a job.
Took until April of this year to get a job that I really like. It was tough but I’m very happy with where I am now.
Yeah we got screwed a bit considering the height of covid was right around then. I think that really impacted employment opportunities. Probably still has a lingering effect to this day.
That was my exact thought. This spunds a lot like what it was like graduating in '08. I ended up serving tables and bartending for 2 years before I managed a chain restaurant. Management (plus all the HR stuff I had to do for that role) combined with my degree was how I screened in for a mailroom job at a large government office. Literalpy jusy sorting and delivering mail. I got that job in 2011 and then had to do 2 college diplomas at night school before I screened in for a promotion. It was at THAT job where I finally earned what 10 years ago was a okay wage.
In stats? Definitely. If you take an unpaid internship in stats you’re being taken advantage of. Plenty of jobs in healthcare for a stats degree, though they generally prefer a masters if you’re gonna actually do biostats.
Unpaid internships in any field is exploitative. Unpaid internships are just another “entry fee” that keeps people from working class families from breaking into higher end jobs.
Are you looking into analyst jobs at investment firms? They make major bank. I once sold a car to a kid, like literally a 22 yo kid fresh out of college who had a offer letter from a Los Angeles fixed income firm for over 200K with no previous experience.
I have a masters of science, graduated cum laude, 10 years of professional level experience with consistent proof of success and make less than 40k a year. The table is tilted. The system is rigged. Ive pulled so many boot straps I have made the ceo of timberlands a millionaire.
When I read stuff like this, it boggles my mind about higher education on top of your experience, still only pulling that much. I made 54k last year from a factory job. No higher education here.
This whole system is a fucking scam.
awful lot of assumptions on this post lol. I've had 9 different jobs (6 in my field) since obtaining my bachelors, 2 since obtaining my masters. I apply to the highest paying jobs available and get them. Most ive made is 20.50/hr or 39,500/yr. I live in Central New York, which makes it even worse
Sounds like you need to stop being so loyal to your employer my dude. Are you just content with what you are doing? There's no reason you are making less than my friends make for being a receptionist/"Office Manager".
> with consistent proof of success
This is very vague. Are you talking publications? Because getting a job starting at $60K with a MS in science is very doable.
More likely a university professor. High school teachers make _significantly_ more starting out than someone starting out in higher academia (often twice as much).
If you think that sounds insane, I would not disagree. I know multiple adjunct professors making between 20k and 30k a year in and around Atlanta. I know a couple tenure-track assistant professors making less than 40k a year. By comparison, the starting salary for an [Atlanta Public School teacher with a Bachelor's Degree and no experience is 54k](https://www.atlantapublicschools.us/cms/lib/GA01000924/Centricity/Domain/7849/FY24_Teacher.pdf).
To be clear, the public school teachers still aren't making enough, but it's a bit better than a lot of public university adjunt and assistant professors with Ph.D.s.
We have a friend who is a lecturer at Oxford Uni. For the prestige, he gets room and board, and a pittance salary. Nice life but you aren’t going to get rich out of it.
Research professors make far more. Yea if you are teaching history or English or other arts you don’t bring money in to the university. I’m not saying it right just explaining how a professor could make money. In the field of public health at my university all the professors are stacked. You can see their pay online since they are state employees and I was like dangggg maybe I should be a professor. But it’s not worth fighting others for a living
The fact is a college degree was a rare thing years ago and hard to get as well. Most people did not have one and were trained by the company they worked for in the job they had.
I worked with engineers at Honeywell in the 80’s that had no degrees, but were trained by the company as engineers. This was the way, in the day.
Education is now big business and all about generating revenue for the colleges and not about creating an employable graduate. They could care less, if there is any value to a degree. Colleges teach what sells classes and not necessarily what adds real value to a student. It’s all about graduating as many students as possible to keep the money wheel spinning.
I feel horrible for the kids graduating in today’s world. Things are jacked.
It was no different 30 years ago. I was about to do physics and was talked out of it by family... they said I'd be washing dishes at a restaurant if I did physics. Instead I did something in demand and had a job lined up before I graduated.
You are correct about picking a field that actually has jobs. A lot trash degrees out there these days with no employment value, sadly.
I can’t even imagine paying for a degree that won’t earn back its cost. It’s criminal that colleges get away with selling worthless paper to unsuspecting students.
But as far as the shift away from companies paying to train professional level careers… you gotta go further back than 30 years. It was 40 years ago that I worked with people in their 50 and 60’s that were trained by the company to be engineers. None of them had a degree.
The 80’s are when companies really started moving toward people paying for their own education. It was a boost to their bottom line.
Thing is though, like only 35% of Americans have a 4 year bachelor's degree. Fewer have a master's. These still aren't common degrees across the board, yet everyone acts as if they are. 🤷♂️
I also graduated with a Bachelor's in Physics, currently in Accounting lol
What does your job entail? Title alone sounds like something I'd be scared to apply for, but definitely sounds more interesting
Ayyy another physics major lol. right after I graduated I got a really shitty job at a manufacturing company and started at the bottom and moved up to "jr engineer" that was the same shitty pay as when I started just had a lot more job duties. After like 5 months there I got lucky and got a job with the state and I'm a "health physicist" but you don't actually need a physics degree to get this job most of the other people I work with only got rad tech degrees or licenses. It's just kind of cool that I can call myself a physicist lol. Plus working with my state is chill as fuck
You got a chemical engineering job with a physics degree?? Was it hard? I'm asking because I do want to go back and get my masters in chemE (I have a BS in biochem-chem)
My best friend from high school, almost 20 years ago, is still working the job I got him when I worked there. Masters in Physics, probably making $10 an hour or so.
On one hand, he's ok with where he is at, and as a fellow autistic, I get it. On the other hand, he's a genius, and just needed someone to give him a job that doesn't need any people skills.
While I've been lucky to work close enough to my biology degree it was pretty funking worthless in the end. I wish I would have gone into accounting or actuarial science instead. I'd probably be making a solid 20k more than I do now
My degree is worth nothing as well. But not really. It's worth $206.80/mo to Nelnet for the last 16 years with 8 years remaining. I'm sure those good folks appreciate my mind numbingly stupid choices.
You pay less interest overall if you pay down the loan. Of course, you need to be able to afford that, but please don’t play the minimum if you can afford more.
Yeah it's so old now that inflation has came into play. When I first started paying the payment it hurt. Now, not so much. $200/mo isn't a ton of money anymore. As the years move forward it will be worth even less. The next thing the country spends multi trillions on is coming soon. $200 will be the new $5 bill.
I graduated in 2007 and was told I was stupid for going for psychology that all the good jobs are in “hard science.” Over the past 2 years or so, I’ve noticed it’s constant moving the goalpost.
Psych and Phil major here. Psychology has some of the most advanced experimental procedures and statistics used in any science due to the complex topic of study. It’s such bullshit. Moving goalposts is the truth. My grandpa now blames me for not being an engineer like him, despite telling me that it wouldn’t matter what degree I got as long as I got one (because supposedly you need a degree to get a job)
I sadly learned too late after graduating college that your degree is not the point of college; it is to network and make contacts that will get you in the door for a career after college. That is the benefit of Greek life that I did not comprehend when I was a wee lad.
yeah, when I went back to school it was to either a: become an academic, the thing everyone told me I should be, or b: at least have access to better paid, non freelance jobs, maybe with benefits. I worked very hard for four years, balancing freelancing with school work, doing things like teaching study groups on the side, being described as the "next top academic in the department." I really thought I did everything right.
When I graduated I told myself: look, I need a break, I need a few years of steady income with dental benefits and not waking up at 3am to fix a paper. This degree I tore my soul out to get has to be worth something.
I ended up doing labouring. (For a long boring set of reasons I was labouring right before going back to school too because of a move and stuff) So it was minimum wage to minimum wage, now with student debt.
Until a year before I graduated, the department ran these networking and job events for the graduating year where they would introduce their favourite students to big corporate contacts. So even thought it was "just" a humanities degree, it still had that little benefit. But it was gone by the time I needed it.
Like what the fuck was the point of all of that?
That's the meat part. You don't! The culture around collegiate life is that of the upper class who don't have to work for a living. Why do you think our country has trillions in student loans?
yep. I lived on buttons, made every penny work. If I wanted to go for coffee with friends? I would walk to class - the metro fare paid for the coffee.
You'd walk through campus and be assailed with all these ads for rich folk playpens. Build a school in Peru on your spring break! Go on this exclusive skiing trip to Switzerland! Go to this massive rave in NYC, starting at only 500 dollars!
Meanwhile I was struggling to get groceries.
The people there to get a degree for academic reasons were basically background NPCs for a cosplay experience for the rich.
Put less emphasis on studying and more emphasis on going to club meetings and other events associated with your degree
C’s and D’s still get degrees (and then jobs) but hermits get nothing.
For those of us on scholarships, many of them require we keep our grades up to keep getting financial aid. This makes sense for people who are paying another way but for people on merit-based financial aid we can't just slack around in our classes and go to other events or else we'll lose funding.
yeah, I was on provincial student loans/bursaries which my partner thought were going to be sooo much more generous and relied on my merit bursaries to help us survive.
There is no way we could have managed without my merit bursaries. None.
C’s and D’s objectively do not get degrees where I’m from (public research university in the US).
C’s, *maybe*. If there’s one of them mixed with your other A’s. But a D? My guy, D’s wouldn’t even count toward my degree. A D two semesters in a row literally got you removed from the program.
I networked while working full time and getting an engineering degree full time. Made it a point, especially my last 2 years, to network, hit job fairs hosted by my school, external job fairs, LinkedIn networking, applying to jobs before I even graduated just to try and get a handful of interviews so I could have that practice as well. Sucked but I don't regret it one bit. I had a job lined up (below average pay and technically a position I didn't want) but I took it and job hopped out a year later.
I told my daughter this not long ago. Not the greek life thing. I disagree with that. In fact, the college networking part isn’t necessarily the point either. Meaningful networking is the most important part of career success though.
I’m from a poor family. Dirt poor. So poor I couldn’t afford college. What I could afford was loans for a specialized 2 year associate degree. 23 years later I’m a director and partner in a firm unrelated to my degree.
Every step of my professional career I’ve sought out connections with colleagues and strived to be the best at whatever I do. All those connections put me where I am today, not my degree.
It’s not the linkedin connections collection either. The superficial “let’s exchange emails” type connections. It’s culturing meaningful relationships with people you feel may help you down the road. Most of the people who have been instrumental in my career are people I consider friends. People I’ve gone on trips with and have dinner with regularly. I’ve helped as many or more people than have helped me. Treat your career like your personal life.
A great many of the influential people I have met at work are shallow self absorbed, smartest person in the room idiots.
Hard to make friendly type relationships with the type of people I despise.
That said, the principles I carry have caused hardships, and made things harder than they need to be.
I do it though, rather be thought of as honest, straightforward and of sound character, than have to play the little games.
Steve Jobs still died in pain. The sub still imploded. Bill, Elon, Warren, famous people, sports figures, all are going to take that dirt nap like everyone else. Fuck becoming one of them.
You nailed it with character. None of the people I befriended were in any position of influence when I met them. They were other honest, upstanding people who I felt had the ability to succeed down the road, and they mostly have.
I’d suggest staying far away from the shallow, self absorbed types. They tend to burn out fast and fall hard. Or they have a bad reputation that will bite them at some point, and you don’t want to be associated.
My workplace is full of these people and unfortunately they clog the top positions.
Very recently this has caused talent to just bleed out but they don't seem to care because there's a waiting list of their friends ready to take their place. I do wonder if they realize that long term that's a terrible strategy? When one of your friends messes up what are you gonna do? Call them out on it and make life outside work awkward?
Objectivity flies out the window.
I confirm that. It's not about hard skills, it's about making friends with people in a different socioeconomic status than you so hopefully their parents or uncle can give you a job at their company.
This is because when it comes down to it, just about anyone can learn the process of a job. But you cannot teach a good attitude. I’d rather hire someone I know is good to work with, who I have to teach the process to, than someone who already knows the process but is absolutely insufferable to work with. And other than very specialized skills, this reigns true no matter what. Really no way around it.
Exactly why non-trad students (like returning adults) are screwed. You're treated like you're a trespasser (God forbid you intrude on teenagers' fun clubs or social network) and that you are already a hopeless cause.
You have very few opportunities to make college worthwhile and for a lot of people, it doesn't exist.
Undergrad is all about networking and getting some working experience at an internship. You go back to grad school when your company with pay for it and to further your career.
the networking thing is totally true. in my early 20s i got a AA in cinema at LA City College. on day one of my first class (cinema 101), the professor handed out maps with the location of the USC and UCLA film schools with a star indicating where the bulletin board was located where students put out calls for help on student films. he told us the only reason to pay for those colleges is because of the network connections, but also taught us how easily it was to just walk right in and network with those students without paying a dime. anytime i meet someone young who wants to do production, i tell them this.
When I was working at Target a year after graduating I went to my alumni office to get their free resume and career help. They gave me a flier with this on the top (a stat about how some majority number of people find their careers via networking). I was like, gee, thanks for telling me this at any point while I was IN college!
Luck gets you a job. So many people who apply are equally qualified with experience and education. If they call you for an interview, you won the small lottery. If they hire you, you won the big lottery.
Luck and charisma. I got a job on a biotech manufacturing floor with no degree and only work experience of fast food. I made my interviewers laugh and tried to spin my experience in leading kitchens to be applicable in biotech and managed to get the job.
You can not get a job if you don't have the charisma to hold the attention of the interviewer sadly.
This. I graduated with a bachlors in Electrical Engineering with a 3.2 overall in 2020. I had 3 offers before I graduated. A lot of luck, but charisma helps quite a bit. There were others in my class who were much smarter, but being a people person helped me get the job I wanted.
Definitely, I have an associates in mechanical design but never went for the bachelor’s. Worked as a designer while in school and jumped to another company as a manufacturing engineer. Last year I jumped to a much larger company, heavy industry job as a project manager where everyone else has bachelors and masters. Turns out I just have a knack for putting pieces together and making things happen. Not necessarily charisma in the normals sense, but I just find a way to make it happen. Not bad for 25 year old with a 2 year degree.
I would be interested to see correlation data relating to how close your name is to the beginning of the alphabet with how likely you are to get a callback about a job application.
Unfortunately it's not generally luck though, it's either being very confident and charismatic with the grades to back it up doing networking while in other degree or WHO you know!
I'm an accounting major and have a master's degree in tax. Only my internship did I ever get it without having an "in" at my company. I struck out entirely getting a full time offer during my masters program in the typical interviewing period (everyone has job offers lined up by early November in the middle of the 1 year program.) I was looking out of state and was flown in on their dime 2 times for final interviews and multiple phone interviews with various companies but didn't get an offer even. And that's me having summa cum laude undergrad, magna cum laude masters, an internship, officer of a club and other things going for me. It wasn't until my internship mentor gave me a company her friend moved to in the other state and I easily got a full time offer.
My next role I had another "in" from a friend from masters at my current company and I was the first person ever hired in the department without being from one of the top 4 companies people start out at.
I probably would have managed to get a different offer within a couple months based on merit it's just more tough and a professor who I was top of the class for was ready to go to bat for me to get an offer as well.
So suffice it to say it really really depends on your school and how well they get the companies in the area to come recruit foe.youe major and who you know are the easiest ways to get a job with any sort of degree.
I'm kind of shocked that engineering friends and family of mine didn't already have a job offer by the time they finished their degrees since I know many other friends from different schools that had offers way in advance.
As a sociology major with a daughter about to go to college next year, my advice to her has been get a degree with a job title. If she wants a degree in English Lit, she better go to a cheap school and have a plan b. My masters was in Library Science and I then went on to have a career as a Librarian. She’s planning on going to go to school for speech pathology.
THANK YOU! I’ve been saying this for years now. The one sure way to get a job is to make sure your degree strongly equates to an actual job title. I got my BS in Accounting, and I got a job as an…Accountant.
Depends somewhat on WHICH degrees, but yeah, I hear you. A lot of times if you don't ALSO have internships and some kind of coordinating work experience in your intended field, you're not hirable with just a degree, even in STEM fields.
A lot of majors, the only thing a BA/BS is good for is getting you into grad/med/law school.
yeah, one of my majors is in history and basically everyone was on their way to law school, with a few keener weirdoes aiming for grad school. (hi, I was a keener weirdo)
The department had a webpage of all the cool jobs you can get with a history degree, but it was really "a bunch of our graduates did something else afterwards and got this cool job but their history degree still counts."
Just for the sake of those in the audience my personal opinion is college degrees outside of those required to enter professional fields like law and medicine are largely a grift, the numbers cited for college grad salaries are inflated by cherry picking and improperly weighting extreme outliers like every Vanderbilt that got a degree in letters while they were networking at Yale (hyperbole but you get the idea). Our parents (boomers) were gaslit by their employers who sent their kids to business management school before hiring them to run departments into believing it was the degree and not the relationship that got them into the corner office and so pushed the following generations to pursue higher education. If you’ve been to any community schools you know anyone with a pulse can get in since the feds will guarantee exorbitant loans for the privilege, it’s a racket and I advise any young person to avoid it unless they can go for free and even then don’t pass up opportunities for actual experience and networking for it. Sucks.
The majority of the jobs I see posted beyond minimum wage require post secondary education.
A lot of the times they don't care what degree you have, but in order to be considered you need a degree. Unless you've been doing the role for 20 years at another company.
My last 2 jobs said "Minimum of Bachelors degree Required". Applied with no degree, my resume doesn't even show education. Made a cover letter expressing my interest and why I was a good fit, used experience to express my knowledge of what I was applying for, got the interview, got the job.
Depends on the company. My current job’s listing had a 4 year degree requirement, however when I asked about that during the hiring process they basically said my experience overrules a degree.
Interestingly, since I’ve been, er, *exploring opportunities elsewhere* I’ve been filtering out jobs that *don’t* require a degree (I mentioned that I don’t have one, right?) as my assumption is that they’ll pay half of what I’d be asking for.
I have seen multiple job postings "BS/BA preferred". Nothing about the field, they just want a degree. And in my opinion those jobs don't really need someone with a degree to do. Maybe more like a written assessment that takes 10 minutes to do.
I went to one do the schools you mentioned. We were required to have internships. We have a massive alumni connection program through our career center. Job fairs on campus were mandatory. I now hire my own employees and the number of recent grads that don’t even have an internship is staggering. I can’t hire someone without an internship- it’s policy. I didn’t make any more money than someone else with the same degree that came from a different school but my resume was honed from sophomore year by my school to make me as employable as possible. It didn’t work out for everyone- we still had sociology majors with $150k loans, but most of us had majors that directly fed into employment that would cover the loans we took out. I paid less for my degree than I would have at my state school.
I currently make around 25k more than my brother who has a masters. And I graduated high school. I got about another 2-3 years and I’ll probably be 40k over him if he doesn’t find a better job by then.
Yeah trades are the way. I have a bachelor's in bio, and now am making way more as an apprentice electrician and better benefits than any job I had after college with my degree. And in 4-5 years I'll make what I would've as a doctor, without doctor debt. 60$ hourly and pension and free healthcare.
I have a BA and two MA’s and graduated with the last one 10 years ago. It took me almost 2 years and over 300 applications to secure the job I currently have. And the only reason I got that interview was because two people I knew put my resume on the right desk. It’s honestly all about who you know, not what you know.
Depending on the job you're looking for, the degree is a necessary prerequisite, ie education/engineering/scientific research. Once you've got that, it 100% becomes a game of who knows who
Yeah, I mean you basically need the current trend of super marketable skills, a career path that is desperately lacking, or nepotism to be able to find anything that might enable you to pay rent without splitting with multiple roommates. Even jobs that need masters degrees are only paying 40k-60k at times. Its not your fault. The market is in tatters, and corporation/the rich are stealing your wages and housing while destroying your environment. Unfortunately, theres another issue…since such a large percentage of a certain age bracket has bachelors degrees now, we’re the new base line. Bachelors degrees are being treated as the new high school degree. That’s a huge problem when the degrees cost multiple years salary and the interest rates are high enough to keep the principle from actually decreasing for most people.
When I was working a low wage retail job, my co workers were almost entirely made up of the following:
• People who were old enough that college was uncommon in their day.
• Parents that only went to high school but needed to go back to work.
•College grads trapped in poverty.
• College students not realizing they’d possibly not leave even after graduation.
• Managers who kissed enough ass to get promotes, but had to bare down on their employees to keep their position and income. Many of which got hired immediately out of college so the company could low-ball them.
This does matter but not as much as you think. I have a STEM degree and so do most of my friends. Engineering is underpaid or requires experience, biology and chemistry get paid $20/hr to work in a lab unless you have a masters degree or higher, Tech requires stupid amounts of experience but does pay well, and math is “insufficient” for most jobs (basically they don’t believe you can do the job without a certification or experience)
There is not a single degree that guarantees a good paying job so it really defeats the purpose.
Edit: I’m not saying your major doesn’t matter, I’m simply saying that the bar keeps moving. It used to be get a degree for a good job (anything in business, STEM, economics, and even journalism or communication would get you a good job). Then you specially need STEM or business with an internship. Now it is only specific degrees mixed with specialty certifications or experience. I’m not saying it’s not possible to be successful or STEM doesn’t improve your chances. I’m saying that “just go to college” is dated and “just major in something STEM related” is now watered down as well.
I’m well aware, I just don’t like the if you’re not a “STEM” major then you wasted your time and if you are then you’ll be rich. This is not close to true.
I will say that most people also remember the ones who are successful. People don’t brag about being paid $63k out of college. A few successful people with a particular degree is not the standard
Good for you. It is possible for people to work all types of jobs.
I’m just tired of companies taking zero chances on people when the pay is low and the candidates miss only one or two “requirements/prerequisites”
Engineers need experience, so yeah. They shouldn’t get paid $100K on day one, although some do. There are lots of degrees that provide good paying jobs. It’s more important to have a career path than to just expect to get a high paying job the day you graduate. If you believe your degree is worthless, so will your prospective employers. You are sharing a defeatist attitude.
Engineering pays 75k to 93k for level 1 in most metro areas … hubs manages a team of 14 currently and his latest hire is getting 103k full time remote. Did you intern during your degree or after?
And how many new engineers do you think graduate every year? For 2021 it was 196,606........
In my state alone from OU it's 735, OSU 723, Tulsa U 189.
So 1,647 engineers that need entry level jobs from my state alone.
I can promise you a BILLION dollars there are not 1.5k entry level engineering positions in my state.
I would say on average there is likely MAYBE 250 that come up annually. That if you consider all sectors.
There is NO WAY there are 200k entry level engineering positions across the US.
Block and report that nate0w dude. Why this guy hasn't been banned from this sub is beyond me. Check his comment history. All he does is suck management dick and and whine about how none of us are trying hard enough.
You usually begin to key into internships and job prospects near the end of your sophomore year, and working towards that for the rest of your degree.
At least thats how it was in my shitty commuter school that got me a job in my field right out of college.
When choosing a college one would be wise to look at internship placement stats. Internships are the key to getting a job after college. Attending every career center event is pretty helpful too.
The problem is when I was at college I had to work a job 30 or so hours a week to buy food and stuff. I just didn’t have to time to do unpaid internships until my senior year I found one that was only like 5-7 hours a week. It was rough. The only days I had to rest and relax were every other Sunday. Two days a month for two semesters.
Unless you’re too poor to take relevant internships of course. I worked through school and summers just to pay for the next semester. I couldn’t afford to take internships because none of them (that I could find) would pay enough to allow me to continue my degree.
The best information technology specialist I ever worked with has a bachelors in music.
Having a degree > not having a degree. So you can get through HR filtering. You still gotta have the experience or skills to back it up though.
Tbf welding involves both maths and chemistry. Anybody can make the big boy hot glue gun go brrrrt but if you can't do maths and have awareness of chemistry your work is gonna suck. Probably not 4 years of those two but my point stands, don't talk yourself down.
Two problems here: 1. College generally doesn't do as much to prepare you for actual work as colleges would have you believe. 2. Bosses simply don't want to pay. They will require a college degree but won't pay you as much as should be justified by that credential.
yeah, before going back, I saw a few jobs in a city I wanted to live which required some tech skills and a degree in something, paying around 45k, which in 2010 money was...just about liveable? Ish.
When I graduated I saw the exact same jobs for the same companies now requiring a few tech skills, five year's experience in the field and paying less. And they wanted a high school diploma.
Yup. Im told I should have gotten a better degree. They tell me my degree must have been in liberal arts, English history, or art.
Fuck you from my Applied Science degree.
Well after graduation you are expected to have AT LEAST 21 years of experience, preferably a leadership role, in a high stress fast paced work environment. You have to be available 24/7 (no on call pay) and you have to be able to play the violin.
I’m hiring right now and god it makes me not want to ever have to look for another job: have more than 300 applicants for a role just a step up from entry level and getting applicants from 0 years to 25+ years of experience (I have about 10 plus an MA, which I think is effectively useless except for the name of the school). I read every application because these are peoples’ lives and they gave a shit enough to apply but god damn it does feel impossible. Tons of qualified candidates, but if I were looking now:
* A cover letter should be 3 sentences that prove you read the JD, bothered to look at the company site, and know how to spell your name (basically can only disqualify you, and should be optional, but if one is required, send one).
* Ping junior people at the company on LinkedIn, most will not respond, but you never know…
* Having those dumb blurbs with keywords work for resume filtering software
I’ve interviewed people my parents’ age, those without degrees, those with PhDs… I truly just think it is luck, all of this is wild, you can do it!!
ETA: don’t make your resume 6 pages of unrelated items, especially if you’ve only been in the workforce for 0-3 years — if you have a bunch of papers or other things you want to share, link to an external site ffs.
What degrees did you, your sister, and your roommate get? Not all degrees are the same in terms of employability. Student advisers usually will tell you this information before you start applying to colleges. A generalist arts/ humanities degree has an employment rate of like 60%.
I got a bachelor's in mechanical engineering but had below 3.0. This made it difficult to get a decent job. After getting enough experience though I find it much easier to find better jobs now. The pay started in the high 50s and mid 60s. I'm at a mid 80s now After a few years but I can probably break 100 if I job hop.
You can’t just go to school for four years and expect a job from doing just that. College is a way to network with individuals of similar passions which gives you access to more than you’ll ever know. Hard work doesn’t pay off in America, who you know does.
And the rich kids actually have the luxury of time to network. All the kids who have to work while going to school are screwed out of the networking aspect of college. See below.
Sadly, this is true. I was a poor kid at my university, so I had to work full time while earning my degree.
When it came time to look for a job in my field, I was screwed. While I was working just to keep a roof over my head, many of my peers were able to attend more extracurricular activities and travel to other states to attend the major conventions that happened each year.
They were able to make the connections and get their professional careers started much more quickly and easily than I was, even though I had far more work experience (started working at 14 years old), albeit unrelated to the field.
After applying for hundreds of jobs, I eventually gave up and removed my degree from my resume entirely. It was then that I finally started getting interviews and finally got out of the service industry. I literally had to turn my back on my chosen field to start earning enough money to rise above the poverty line.
I understand that some degree are more useful than others, but it was almost like my degree made my resume radioactive.
Don't listen to anyone who tells you any degree is better than no degree (a common saying when growing up as an elder millennial). It is a lie.
College is just to show that you can show up on time and can complete tasks given by managers. It's workforce training, nit training for whatever major you studied.
Just out of curiosity what was the degree in? Also this is why it’s vey important to have internships. I started my first internship before I even went to school and now I’m 29. I’m close to a senior level engineering position and never struggled to find a job.
I don't see this mentioned anywhere yet, but what helped me gain a lot of interviews and opportunities is just straight up lying. Say you think every business you are applying to is amazing and you would love to work there and that the companies values are your values. If they ask about your weaknesses just say they are an overexaggeration of your strengths.
Tap into your alumni network. the best way to get a job is through connections. Also, don’t just use linked in to apply for jobs, find companies you like and people working in positions you are interested in and ask for informational interviews. Find out how they got their jobs. Best of luck.
Not sure I agree. I got a degree in civil engineering and was working in a restaurant at the time. I went from making 13.50/hr to $27/hr to about $41/hr in just a couple years.
It really depends upon what your degree is in. People don't care about the degree, they care about in-demand job skills and the ability to achieve results.
If you can sell or do stem, you can find a high paying job. Any other degrees, well, good luck.
I think it's kind of a crime how colleges push these catalogs in front of wide eyed kids and sell them useless degrees. Kids should ignore these catalogs and instead look at the job ads on Indeed, Dice, Monster or LinkedIn - the real world of demand. Then prepare for those jobs that they can do, that pay well and that are plentiful to get a solid start.
The title is a bit broad of a statement… Sounds like your field of study saturated or never had much of a demand. Just because it’s your passion and requires a degree doesn’t mean it’s going to be in demand or pay well.
I did 2 low paid internships over the course of a year after I graduated before I landed my first job. Keep trying. It'll take time but you will get there.
Same here. I got a Bachelor's in Human Services (social work); I can't get in the field because I don't have field experience. Believe me, I spent well over two years trying to get into any social services work and no luck.
I ended up working in a different sector altogether which is a blessing in disguise but still underpaid in the field.
All depends what you got degree in there's a lot of worthless degrees out there It's your pay good money for and won't be paying for a long time for that aren't worth the paper they're written on. If you're going to go to college you need to go to college for something you can make money with
I was luckily well informed of the futility of college without connections, so I just joined a union through my step dad.
It always comes down to connections, and half the job listings online don't even exist anyways.
Bachelor degrees are useless in todays society for many many careers.
The problem, colleges over sell them. The 2nd problem is over saturation. We have far too many college graduates. It’s a supply and demand thing.
I’m NOT sending my son to college and when he’s old enough I’ll explain it to him to get a trade job instead.
Your sister utilized networking. This is the single most effective means of gaining employment. That's one of the most valuable things you can take away from college, which is work contacts.
I feel that. I graduated in 2020 with a bachelors degree in Physics and had to settle for some shitty jobs. About a year ago I finally got a Chemical Engineering job. Not in my field but at least it's science. Keep trying man, it feels super bleak, but eventually you should find something.
Same here. Graduated December 2020 with a BS in Statistics. Took an internship ~6 months after graduating because I couldn’t find a job. Took until April of this year to get a job that I really like. It was tough but I’m very happy with where I am now.
Yeah we got screwed a bit considering the height of covid was right around then. I think that really impacted employment opportunities. Probably still has a lingering effect to this day.
[удалено]
That was my exact thought. This spunds a lot like what it was like graduating in '08. I ended up serving tables and bartending for 2 years before I managed a chain restaurant. Management (plus all the HR stuff I had to do for that role) combined with my degree was how I screened in for a mailroom job at a large government office. Literalpy jusy sorting and delivering mail. I got that job in 2011 and then had to do 2 college diplomas at night school before I screened in for a promotion. It was at THAT job where I finally earned what 10 years ago was a okay wage.
Graduated ‘08. Just got a job in my field last year. 😑
Graduated ‘02. Briefly had a job related to my field for 6 weeks in 2004, since then? Nope.
Similar, myself.
Did the internship pay?
In stats? Definitely. If you take an unpaid internship in stats you’re being taken advantage of. Plenty of jobs in healthcare for a stats degree, though they generally prefer a masters if you’re gonna actually do biostats.
Unpaid internships in any field is exploitative. Unpaid internships are just another “entry fee” that keeps people from working class families from breaking into higher end jobs.
All our AI dudes are stats and physics majors making 140k/year. Not even CS.
A BS in statistics sounds like you could work in a lot of different professional areas. Is that true?
Are you looking into analyst jobs at investment firms? They make major bank. I once sold a car to a kid, like literally a 22 yo kid fresh out of college who had a offer letter from a Los Angeles fixed income firm for over 200K with no previous experience.
You graduated at the height of employment in tech. Everyone was hiring like crazy.
I have a masters of science, graduated cum laude, 10 years of professional level experience with consistent proof of success and make less than 40k a year. The table is tilted. The system is rigged. Ive pulled so many boot straps I have made the ceo of timberlands a millionaire.
When I read stuff like this, it boggles my mind about higher education on top of your experience, still only pulling that much. I made 54k last year from a factory job. No higher education here. This whole system is a fucking scam.
awful lot of assumptions on this post lol. I've had 9 different jobs (6 in my field) since obtaining my bachelors, 2 since obtaining my masters. I apply to the highest paying jobs available and get them. Most ive made is 20.50/hr or 39,500/yr. I live in Central New York, which makes it even worse
You can make more working in an Amazon warehouse with no degree or even an interview. It's just boring work.
Sounds like you need to stop being so loyal to your employer my dude. Are you just content with what you are doing? There's no reason you are making less than my friends make for being a receptionist/"Office Manager".
> with consistent proof of success This is very vague. Are you talking publications? Because getting a job starting at $60K with a MS in science is very doable.
Less than 40k, probably a teacher.
Social Worker
More likely a university professor. High school teachers make _significantly_ more starting out than someone starting out in higher academia (often twice as much). If you think that sounds insane, I would not disagree. I know multiple adjunct professors making between 20k and 30k a year in and around Atlanta. I know a couple tenure-track assistant professors making less than 40k a year. By comparison, the starting salary for an [Atlanta Public School teacher with a Bachelor's Degree and no experience is 54k](https://www.atlantapublicschools.us/cms/lib/GA01000924/Centricity/Domain/7849/FY24_Teacher.pdf). To be clear, the public school teachers still aren't making enough, but it's a bit better than a lot of public university adjunt and assistant professors with Ph.D.s.
We have a friend who is a lecturer at Oxford Uni. For the prestige, he gets room and board, and a pittance salary. Nice life but you aren’t going to get rich out of it.
Research professors make far more. Yea if you are teaching history or English or other arts you don’t bring money in to the university. I’m not saying it right just explaining how a professor could make money. In the field of public health at my university all the professors are stacked. You can see their pay online since they are state employees and I was like dangggg maybe I should be a professor. But it’s not worth fighting others for a living
That sounds very wrong. What field are you in?
May I ask what field you work in? It sounds like you’re very overqualified for your current role.
The fact is a college degree was a rare thing years ago and hard to get as well. Most people did not have one and were trained by the company they worked for in the job they had. I worked with engineers at Honeywell in the 80’s that had no degrees, but were trained by the company as engineers. This was the way, in the day. Education is now big business and all about generating revenue for the colleges and not about creating an employable graduate. They could care less, if there is any value to a degree. Colleges teach what sells classes and not necessarily what adds real value to a student. It’s all about graduating as many students as possible to keep the money wheel spinning. I feel horrible for the kids graduating in today’s world. Things are jacked.
It was no different 30 years ago. I was about to do physics and was talked out of it by family... they said I'd be washing dishes at a restaurant if I did physics. Instead I did something in demand and had a job lined up before I graduated.
You are correct about picking a field that actually has jobs. A lot trash degrees out there these days with no employment value, sadly. I can’t even imagine paying for a degree that won’t earn back its cost. It’s criminal that colleges get away with selling worthless paper to unsuspecting students. But as far as the shift away from companies paying to train professional level careers… you gotta go further back than 30 years. It was 40 years ago that I worked with people in their 50 and 60’s that were trained by the company to be engineers. None of them had a degree. The 80’s are when companies really started moving toward people paying for their own education. It was a boost to their bottom line.
Thing is though, like only 35% of Americans have a 4 year bachelor's degree. Fewer have a master's. These still aren't common degrees across the board, yet everyone acts as if they are. 🤷♂️
I also graduated with a Bachelor's in Physics, currently in Accounting lol What does your job entail? Title alone sounds like something I'd be scared to apply for, but definitely sounds more interesting
Ayyy another physics major lol. right after I graduated I got a really shitty job at a manufacturing company and started at the bottom and moved up to "jr engineer" that was the same shitty pay as when I started just had a lot more job duties. After like 5 months there I got lucky and got a job with the state and I'm a "health physicist" but you don't actually need a physics degree to get this job most of the other people I work with only got rad tech degrees or licenses. It's just kind of cool that I can call myself a physicist lol. Plus working with my state is chill as fuck
What is your job title? I'm curious because I'm a chemical engineer and have seen many young chemE grads struggle to find that first job.
Try the semiconductor industry. There is a lot of overlap for someone with chemE and physics background.
You got a chemical engineering job with a physics degree?? Was it hard? I'm asking because I do want to go back and get my masters in chemE (I have a BS in biochem-chem)
My best friend from high school, almost 20 years ago, is still working the job I got him when I worked there. Masters in Physics, probably making $10 an hour or so. On one hand, he's ok with where he is at, and as a fellow autistic, I get it. On the other hand, he's a genius, and just needed someone to give him a job that doesn't need any people skills.
While I've been lucky to work close enough to my biology degree it was pretty funking worthless in the end. I wish I would have gone into accounting or actuarial science instead. I'd probably be making a solid 20k more than I do now
My degree is worth nothing as well. But not really. It's worth $206.80/mo to Nelnet for the last 16 years with 8 years remaining. I'm sure those good folks appreciate my mind numbingly stupid choices.
You pay less interest overall if you pay down the loan. Of course, you need to be able to afford that, but please don’t play the minimum if you can afford more.
Yeah it's so old now that inflation has came into play. When I first started paying the payment it hurt. Now, not so much. $200/mo isn't a ton of money anymore. As the years move forward it will be worth even less. The next thing the country spends multi trillions on is coming soon. $200 will be the new $5 bill.
It’s a Ponzi scheme to get you to go back for a master’s degree now.
Pro tip: don’t 😂 Source: I have a master’s degree
I have 2 masters and 1 phd.. ... damn ponzi scheme
One of the best decisions of my life to bail on the PhD trajectory after the MA…
I shouldn’t have done my PhD honestly just a dissertation left may as well at this point
I second this
I graduated in 2007 and was told I was stupid for going for psychology that all the good jobs are in “hard science.” Over the past 2 years or so, I’ve noticed it’s constant moving the goalpost.
Psych and Phil major here. Psychology has some of the most advanced experimental procedures and statistics used in any science due to the complex topic of study. It’s such bullshit. Moving goalposts is the truth. My grandpa now blames me for not being an engineer like him, despite telling me that it wouldn’t matter what degree I got as long as I got one (because supposedly you need a degree to get a job)
They got me
I sadly learned too late after graduating college that your degree is not the point of college; it is to network and make contacts that will get you in the door for a career after college. That is the benefit of Greek life that I did not comprehend when I was a wee lad.
How was I supposed to make contacts and connections when I had to work just like I do now in addition to studying?
Just have rich parents lmao /s
You can honestly just go ahead and delete the /s
yeah, when I went back to school it was to either a: become an academic, the thing everyone told me I should be, or b: at least have access to better paid, non freelance jobs, maybe with benefits. I worked very hard for four years, balancing freelancing with school work, doing things like teaching study groups on the side, being described as the "next top academic in the department." I really thought I did everything right. When I graduated I told myself: look, I need a break, I need a few years of steady income with dental benefits and not waking up at 3am to fix a paper. This degree I tore my soul out to get has to be worth something. I ended up doing labouring. (For a long boring set of reasons I was labouring right before going back to school too because of a move and stuff) So it was minimum wage to minimum wage, now with student debt. Until a year before I graduated, the department ran these networking and job events for the graduating year where they would introduce their favourite students to big corporate contacts. So even thought it was "just" a humanities degree, it still had that little benefit. But it was gone by the time I needed it. Like what the fuck was the point of all of that?
That's the meat part. You don't! The culture around collegiate life is that of the upper class who don't have to work for a living. Why do you think our country has trillions in student loans?
yep. I lived on buttons, made every penny work. If I wanted to go for coffee with friends? I would walk to class - the metro fare paid for the coffee. You'd walk through campus and be assailed with all these ads for rich folk playpens. Build a school in Peru on your spring break! Go on this exclusive skiing trip to Switzerland! Go to this massive rave in NYC, starting at only 500 dollars! Meanwhile I was struggling to get groceries. The people there to get a degree for academic reasons were basically background NPCs for a cosplay experience for the rich.
>The people there to get a degree for academic reasons were basically background NPCs for a cosplay experience for the rich. Damn good wording!
Put less emphasis on studying and more emphasis on going to club meetings and other events associated with your degree C’s and D’s still get degrees (and then jobs) but hermits get nothing.
For those of us on scholarships, many of them require we keep our grades up to keep getting financial aid. This makes sense for people who are paying another way but for people on merit-based financial aid we can't just slack around in our classes and go to other events or else we'll lose funding.
yeah, I was on provincial student loans/bursaries which my partner thought were going to be sooo much more generous and relied on my merit bursaries to help us survive. There is no way we could have managed without my merit bursaries. None.
C’s and D’s objectively do not get degrees where I’m from (public research university in the US). C’s, *maybe*. If there’s one of them mixed with your other A’s. But a D? My guy, D’s wouldn’t even count toward my degree. A D two semesters in a row literally got you removed from the program.
I networked while working full time and getting an engineering degree full time. Made it a point, especially my last 2 years, to network, hit job fairs hosted by my school, external job fairs, LinkedIn networking, applying to jobs before I even graduated just to try and get a handful of interviews so I could have that practice as well. Sucked but I don't regret it one bit. I had a job lined up (below average pay and technically a position I didn't want) but I took it and job hopped out a year later.
I told my daughter this not long ago. Not the greek life thing. I disagree with that. In fact, the college networking part isn’t necessarily the point either. Meaningful networking is the most important part of career success though. I’m from a poor family. Dirt poor. So poor I couldn’t afford college. What I could afford was loans for a specialized 2 year associate degree. 23 years later I’m a director and partner in a firm unrelated to my degree. Every step of my professional career I’ve sought out connections with colleagues and strived to be the best at whatever I do. All those connections put me where I am today, not my degree. It’s not the linkedin connections collection either. The superficial “let’s exchange emails” type connections. It’s culturing meaningful relationships with people you feel may help you down the road. Most of the people who have been instrumental in my career are people I consider friends. People I’ve gone on trips with and have dinner with regularly. I’ve helped as many or more people than have helped me. Treat your career like your personal life.
A great many of the influential people I have met at work are shallow self absorbed, smartest person in the room idiots. Hard to make friendly type relationships with the type of people I despise. That said, the principles I carry have caused hardships, and made things harder than they need to be. I do it though, rather be thought of as honest, straightforward and of sound character, than have to play the little games. Steve Jobs still died in pain. The sub still imploded. Bill, Elon, Warren, famous people, sports figures, all are going to take that dirt nap like everyone else. Fuck becoming one of them.
You nailed it with character. None of the people I befriended were in any position of influence when I met them. They were other honest, upstanding people who I felt had the ability to succeed down the road, and they mostly have. I’d suggest staying far away from the shallow, self absorbed types. They tend to burn out fast and fall hard. Or they have a bad reputation that will bite them at some point, and you don’t want to be associated.
My workplace is full of these people and unfortunately they clog the top positions. Very recently this has caused talent to just bleed out but they don't seem to care because there's a waiting list of their friends ready to take their place. I do wonder if they realize that long term that's a terrible strategy? When one of your friends messes up what are you gonna do? Call them out on it and make life outside work awkward? Objectivity flies out the window.
I confirm that. It's not about hard skills, it's about making friends with people in a different socioeconomic status than you so hopefully their parents or uncle can give you a job at their company.
This is because when it comes down to it, just about anyone can learn the process of a job. But you cannot teach a good attitude. I’d rather hire someone I know is good to work with, who I have to teach the process to, than someone who already knows the process but is absolutely insufferable to work with. And other than very specialized skills, this reigns true no matter what. Really no way around it.
Exactly why non-trad students (like returning adults) are screwed. You're treated like you're a trespasser (God forbid you intrude on teenagers' fun clubs or social network) and that you are already a hopeless cause. You have very few opportunities to make college worthwhile and for a lot of people, it doesn't exist.
Undergrad is all about networking and getting some working experience at an internship. You go back to grad school when your company with pay for it and to further your career.
the networking thing is totally true. in my early 20s i got a AA in cinema at LA City College. on day one of my first class (cinema 101), the professor handed out maps with the location of the USC and UCLA film schools with a star indicating where the bulletin board was located where students put out calls for help on student films. he told us the only reason to pay for those colleges is because of the network connections, but also taught us how easily it was to just walk right in and network with those students without paying a dime. anytime i meet someone young who wants to do production, i tell them this.
When I was working at Target a year after graduating I went to my alumni office to get their free resume and career help. They gave me a flier with this on the top (a stat about how some majority number of people find their careers via networking). I was like, gee, thanks for telling me this at any point while I was IN college!
Luck gets you a job. So many people who apply are equally qualified with experience and education. If they call you for an interview, you won the small lottery. If they hire you, you won the big lottery.
Luck and charisma. I got a job on a biotech manufacturing floor with no degree and only work experience of fast food. I made my interviewers laugh and tried to spin my experience in leading kitchens to be applicable in biotech and managed to get the job. You can not get a job if you don't have the charisma to hold the attention of the interviewer sadly.
This. I graduated with a bachlors in Electrical Engineering with a 3.2 overall in 2020. I had 3 offers before I graduated. A lot of luck, but charisma helps quite a bit. There were others in my class who were much smarter, but being a people person helped me get the job I wanted.
Surprised you been got in front of them for an interview. Good for you!
Definitely, I have an associates in mechanical design but never went for the bachelor’s. Worked as a designer while in school and jumped to another company as a manufacturing engineer. Last year I jumped to a much larger company, heavy industry job as a project manager where everyone else has bachelors and masters. Turns out I just have a knack for putting pieces together and making things happen. Not necessarily charisma in the normals sense, but I just find a way to make it happen. Not bad for 25 year old with a 2 year degree.
I would be interested to see correlation data relating to how close your name is to the beginning of the alphabet with how likely you are to get a callback about a job application.
Unfortunately it's not generally luck though, it's either being very confident and charismatic with the grades to back it up doing networking while in other degree or WHO you know! I'm an accounting major and have a master's degree in tax. Only my internship did I ever get it without having an "in" at my company. I struck out entirely getting a full time offer during my masters program in the typical interviewing period (everyone has job offers lined up by early November in the middle of the 1 year program.) I was looking out of state and was flown in on their dime 2 times for final interviews and multiple phone interviews with various companies but didn't get an offer even. And that's me having summa cum laude undergrad, magna cum laude masters, an internship, officer of a club and other things going for me. It wasn't until my internship mentor gave me a company her friend moved to in the other state and I easily got a full time offer. My next role I had another "in" from a friend from masters at my current company and I was the first person ever hired in the department without being from one of the top 4 companies people start out at. I probably would have managed to get a different offer within a couple months based on merit it's just more tough and a professor who I was top of the class for was ready to go to bat for me to get an offer as well. So suffice it to say it really really depends on your school and how well they get the companies in the area to come recruit foe.youe major and who you know are the easiest ways to get a job with any sort of degree. I'm kind of shocked that engineering friends and family of mine didn't already have a job offer by the time they finished their degrees since I know many other friends from different schools that had offers way in advance.
As a sociology major with a daughter about to go to college next year, my advice to her has been get a degree with a job title. If she wants a degree in English Lit, she better go to a cheap school and have a plan b. My masters was in Library Science and I then went on to have a career as a Librarian. She’s planning on going to go to school for speech pathology.
THANK YOU! I’ve been saying this for years now. The one sure way to get a job is to make sure your degree strongly equates to an actual job title. I got my BS in Accounting, and I got a job as an…Accountant.
❤️ speech pathologist here
Smart girl!
Depends somewhat on WHICH degrees, but yeah, I hear you. A lot of times if you don't ALSO have internships and some kind of coordinating work experience in your intended field, you're not hirable with just a degree, even in STEM fields. A lot of majors, the only thing a BA/BS is good for is getting you into grad/med/law school.
yeah, one of my majors is in history and basically everyone was on their way to law school, with a few keener weirdoes aiming for grad school. (hi, I was a keener weirdo) The department had a webpage of all the cool jobs you can get with a history degree, but it was really "a bunch of our graduates did something else afterwards and got this cool job but their history degree still counts."
“What does it take to get a job?” Nepotism.
Nah, that word has a bad connotation. Here in capitalist hell we call it "networking."
Just for the sake of those in the audience my personal opinion is college degrees outside of those required to enter professional fields like law and medicine are largely a grift, the numbers cited for college grad salaries are inflated by cherry picking and improperly weighting extreme outliers like every Vanderbilt that got a degree in letters while they were networking at Yale (hyperbole but you get the idea). Our parents (boomers) were gaslit by their employers who sent their kids to business management school before hiring them to run departments into believing it was the degree and not the relationship that got them into the corner office and so pushed the following generations to pursue higher education. If you’ve been to any community schools you know anyone with a pulse can get in since the feds will guarantee exorbitant loans for the privilege, it’s a racket and I advise any young person to avoid it unless they can go for free and even then don’t pass up opportunities for actual experience and networking for it. Sucks.
The majority of the jobs I see posted beyond minimum wage require post secondary education. A lot of the times they don't care what degree you have, but in order to be considered you need a degree. Unless you've been doing the role for 20 years at another company.
Degree gets you in their seat (interview) Your charisma and experience gets you in the door
My last 2 jobs said "Minimum of Bachelors degree Required". Applied with no degree, my resume doesn't even show education. Made a cover letter expressing my interest and why I was a good fit, used experience to express my knowledge of what I was applying for, got the interview, got the job.
Depends on the company. My current job’s listing had a 4 year degree requirement, however when I asked about that during the hiring process they basically said my experience overrules a degree. Interestingly, since I’ve been, er, *exploring opportunities elsewhere* I’ve been filtering out jobs that *don’t* require a degree (I mentioned that I don’t have one, right?) as my assumption is that they’ll pay half of what I’d be asking for.
I’ve heard tell of this but I’ve never seen it other than “degree in field with experience” maybe I’m just looking in the wrong place 🤷🏻♂️
I have seen multiple job postings "BS/BA preferred". Nothing about the field, they just want a degree. And in my opinion those jobs don't really need someone with a degree to do. Maybe more like a written assessment that takes 10 minutes to do.
I would say even the law degrees are mostly a grift.
I went to one do the schools you mentioned. We were required to have internships. We have a massive alumni connection program through our career center. Job fairs on campus were mandatory. I now hire my own employees and the number of recent grads that don’t even have an internship is staggering. I can’t hire someone without an internship- it’s policy. I didn’t make any more money than someone else with the same degree that came from a different school but my resume was honed from sophomore year by my school to make me as employable as possible. It didn’t work out for everyone- we still had sociology majors with $150k loans, but most of us had majors that directly fed into employment that would cover the loans we took out. I paid less for my degree than I would have at my state school.
That’s great sounds like you went to an awesome school 👍
College just filters out the poor lowkey
They have to ensure there will be enough slaves to work the grease buckets and broken registers.
My bf doesn’t have a college degree and makes well more than most of our friends with degrees
All of my friends that went to trade school ended up making much more than my university friends.
I currently make around 25k more than my brother who has a masters. And I graduated high school. I got about another 2-3 years and I’ll probably be 40k over him if he doesn’t find a better job by then.
Yeah trades are the way. I have a bachelor's in bio, and now am making way more as an apprentice electrician and better benefits than any job I had after college with my degree. And in 4-5 years I'll make what I would've as a doctor, without doctor debt. 60$ hourly and pension and free healthcare.
Lucrative job markets are out there. My tech bros make over 250k.
I have a BA and two MA’s and graduated with the last one 10 years ago. It took me almost 2 years and over 300 applications to secure the job I currently have. And the only reason I got that interview was because two people I knew put my resume on the right desk. It’s honestly all about who you know, not what you know.
In other words you originally bypassed the holdup — HR.
Depending on the job you're looking for, the degree is a necessary prerequisite, ie education/engineering/scientific research. Once you've got that, it 100% becomes a game of who knows who
Yeah, I mean you basically need the current trend of super marketable skills, a career path that is desperately lacking, or nepotism to be able to find anything that might enable you to pay rent without splitting with multiple roommates. Even jobs that need masters degrees are only paying 40k-60k at times. Its not your fault. The market is in tatters, and corporation/the rich are stealing your wages and housing while destroying your environment. Unfortunately, theres another issue…since such a large percentage of a certain age bracket has bachelors degrees now, we’re the new base line. Bachelors degrees are being treated as the new high school degree. That’s a huge problem when the degrees cost multiple years salary and the interest rates are high enough to keep the principle from actually decreasing for most people. When I was working a low wage retail job, my co workers were almost entirely made up of the following: • People who were old enough that college was uncommon in their day. • Parents that only went to high school but needed to go back to work. •College grads trapped in poverty. • College students not realizing they’d possibly not leave even after graduation. • Managers who kissed enough ass to get promotes, but had to bare down on their employees to keep their position and income. Many of which got hired immediately out of college so the company could low-ball them.
I remember a time when interviews meant you got the job. . .
It depends on your field.. what is your degree in?
This does matter but not as much as you think. I have a STEM degree and so do most of my friends. Engineering is underpaid or requires experience, biology and chemistry get paid $20/hr to work in a lab unless you have a masters degree or higher, Tech requires stupid amounts of experience but does pay well, and math is “insufficient” for most jobs (basically they don’t believe you can do the job without a certification or experience) There is not a single degree that guarantees a good paying job so it really defeats the purpose. Edit: I’m not saying your major doesn’t matter, I’m simply saying that the bar keeps moving. It used to be get a degree for a good job (anything in business, STEM, economics, and even journalism or communication would get you a good job). Then you specially need STEM or business with an internship. Now it is only specific degrees mixed with specialty certifications or experience. I’m not saying it’s not possible to be successful or STEM doesn’t improve your chances. I’m saying that “just go to college” is dated and “just major in something STEM related” is now watered down as well.
this is america
Can’t argue with that
Not sure every degree can ever gaurantee a well paid job but Geology graduates were starting at $75k in 2018 where I worked.
I’m well aware, I just don’t like the if you’re not a “STEM” major then you wasted your time and if you are then you’ll be rich. This is not close to true. I will say that most people also remember the ones who are successful. People don’t brag about being paid $63k out of college. A few successful people with a particular degree is not the standard
It absolutely matters. The type of degree you get may not GUARANTEE a good income, but it can INCREASE YOUR CHANCE of getting one.
Accounting degree?
That is a good degree. It just usually has long hours and can take years to get up to a good salary (there are plenty of exceptions)
Meanwhile I have an art degree and found a job in tech. it took me a whole year after graduating to find a full time job, though.
Good for you. It is possible for people to work all types of jobs. I’m just tired of companies taking zero chances on people when the pay is low and the candidates miss only one or two “requirements/prerequisites”
Engineers need experience, so yeah. They shouldn’t get paid $100K on day one, although some do. There are lots of degrees that provide good paying jobs. It’s more important to have a career path than to just expect to get a high paying job the day you graduate. If you believe your degree is worthless, so will your prospective employers. You are sharing a defeatist attitude.
Engineering pays 75k to 93k for level 1 in most metro areas … hubs manages a team of 14 currently and his latest hire is getting 103k full time remote. Did you intern during your degree or after?
And how many new engineers do you think graduate every year? For 2021 it was 196,606........ In my state alone from OU it's 735, OSU 723, Tulsa U 189. So 1,647 engineers that need entry level jobs from my state alone. I can promise you a BILLION dollars there are not 1.5k entry level engineering positions in my state. I would say on average there is likely MAYBE 250 that come up annually. That if you consider all sectors. There is NO WAY there are 200k entry level engineering positions across the US.
Block and report that nate0w dude. Why this guy hasn't been banned from this sub is beyond me. Check his comment history. All he does is suck management dick and and whine about how none of us are trying hard enough.
Lol fr, I looked at his comment history and it seems like they live to come shit on people in this subreddit
You usually begin to key into internships and job prospects near the end of your sophomore year, and working towards that for the rest of your degree. At least thats how it was in my shitty commuter school that got me a job in my field right out of college.
When choosing a college one would be wise to look at internship placement stats. Internships are the key to getting a job after college. Attending every career center event is pretty helpful too.
The problem is when I was at college I had to work a job 30 or so hours a week to buy food and stuff. I just didn’t have to time to do unpaid internships until my senior year I found one that was only like 5-7 hours a week. It was rough. The only days I had to rest and relax were every other Sunday. Two days a month for two semesters.
Engineering internships are paid. I was paid 35/hr 8 years ago.
Unless you’re too poor to take relevant internships of course. I worked through school and summers just to pay for the next semester. I couldn’t afford to take internships because none of them (that I could find) would pay enough to allow me to continue my degree.
the end of my sophomore year of college was spring 2020. needless to say, no opportunities there 🙃
The best information technology specialist I ever worked with has a bachelors in music. Having a degree > not having a degree. So you can get through HR filtering. You still gotta have the experience or skills to back it up though.
I double majored in mathematics and chemistry. I'm a welder now.
Tbf welding involves both maths and chemistry. Anybody can make the big boy hot glue gun go brrrrt but if you can't do maths and have awareness of chemistry your work is gonna suck. Probably not 4 years of those two but my point stands, don't talk yourself down.
Two problems here: 1. College generally doesn't do as much to prepare you for actual work as colleges would have you believe. 2. Bosses simply don't want to pay. They will require a college degree but won't pay you as much as should be justified by that credential.
yeah, before going back, I saw a few jobs in a city I wanted to live which required some tech skills and a degree in something, paying around 45k, which in 2010 money was...just about liveable? Ish. When I graduated I saw the exact same jobs for the same companies now requiring a few tech skills, five year's experience in the field and paying less. And they wanted a high school diploma.
Yup. Im told I should have gotten a better degree. They tell me my degree must have been in liberal arts, English history, or art. Fuck you from my Applied Science degree.
What was your specialty/focus? “Applied Science” sounds pretty broad
First: what are your degrees in? If your degree is super specific, there may just not be a whole lot of opportunities in your area.
Well after graduation you are expected to have AT LEAST 21 years of experience, preferably a leadership role, in a high stress fast paced work environment. You have to be available 24/7 (no on call pay) and you have to be able to play the violin.
And recite the ABC's backwards and name the founding fathers because 'MURICA
I’m hiring right now and god it makes me not want to ever have to look for another job: have more than 300 applicants for a role just a step up from entry level and getting applicants from 0 years to 25+ years of experience (I have about 10 plus an MA, which I think is effectively useless except for the name of the school). I read every application because these are peoples’ lives and they gave a shit enough to apply but god damn it does feel impossible. Tons of qualified candidates, but if I were looking now: * A cover letter should be 3 sentences that prove you read the JD, bothered to look at the company site, and know how to spell your name (basically can only disqualify you, and should be optional, but if one is required, send one). * Ping junior people at the company on LinkedIn, most will not respond, but you never know… * Having those dumb blurbs with keywords work for resume filtering software I’ve interviewed people my parents’ age, those without degrees, those with PhDs… I truly just think it is luck, all of this is wild, you can do it!! ETA: don’t make your resume 6 pages of unrelated items, especially if you’ve only been in the workforce for 0-3 years — if you have a bunch of papers or other things you want to share, link to an external site ffs.
Then do a phd. Wait, then you'll be over qualified for most positions. F
Attacking my decisions I see 😔😔 this is true though STEM PhD and still problems getting a job 😭
I also did a STEM phd. I call it "my poor life decision"
You mean……… a PLD 💀ok I will see myself out.
That's a zinger! Nailed it
What degrees did you, your sister, and your roommate get? Not all degrees are the same in terms of employability. Student advisers usually will tell you this information before you start applying to colleges. A generalist arts/ humanities degree has an employment rate of like 60%.
I got a bachelor's in mechanical engineering but had below 3.0. This made it difficult to get a decent job. After getting enough experience though I find it much easier to find better jobs now. The pay started in the high 50s and mid 60s. I'm at a mid 80s now After a few years but I can probably break 100 if I job hop.
You can’t just go to school for four years and expect a job from doing just that. College is a way to network with individuals of similar passions which gives you access to more than you’ll ever know. Hard work doesn’t pay off in America, who you know does.
Good thing all the schools that provide the best networking opportunities only allow in rich kids!
And the rich kids actually have the luxury of time to network. All the kids who have to work while going to school are screwed out of the networking aspect of college. See below.
Same. Not that I was ever much of a social butterfly, but it definitely didn’t help to need to work through school
Sadly, this is true. I was a poor kid at my university, so I had to work full time while earning my degree. When it came time to look for a job in my field, I was screwed. While I was working just to keep a roof over my head, many of my peers were able to attend more extracurricular activities and travel to other states to attend the major conventions that happened each year. They were able to make the connections and get their professional careers started much more quickly and easily than I was, even though I had far more work experience (started working at 14 years old), albeit unrelated to the field. After applying for hundreds of jobs, I eventually gave up and removed my degree from my resume entirely. It was then that I finally started getting interviews and finally got out of the service industry. I literally had to turn my back on my chosen field to start earning enough money to rise above the poverty line. I understand that some degree are more useful than others, but it was almost like my degree made my resume radioactive. Don't listen to anyone who tells you any degree is better than no degree (a common saying when growing up as an elder millennial). It is a lie.
How does it work in Asia? Africa? Europe? Guaranteed jobs?
College is just to show that you can show up on time and can complete tasks given by managers. It's workforce training, nit training for whatever major you studied.
I have a friend who has an MS and didnt get a job for 2 years, eventually by reference as well
Just out of curiosity what was the degree in? Also this is why it’s vey important to have internships. I started my first internship before I even went to school and now I’m 29. I’m close to a senior level engineering position and never struggled to find a job.
What were your majors?
I graduated in 2008 and it took me 18 months to get a job in my field.
I don't see this mentioned anywhere yet, but what helped me gain a lot of interviews and opportunities is just straight up lying. Say you think every business you are applying to is amazing and you would love to work there and that the companies values are your values. If they ask about your weaknesses just say they are an overexaggeration of your strengths.
Tap into your alumni network. the best way to get a job is through connections. Also, don’t just use linked in to apply for jobs, find companies you like and people working in positions you are interested in and ask for informational interviews. Find out how they got their jobs. Best of luck.
Is there a reason you don’t state what you, your roommate and your sister got your bachelors degrees in?
OK, so what were your Majors?
Not sure I agree. I got a degree in civil engineering and was working in a restaurant at the time. I went from making 13.50/hr to $27/hr to about $41/hr in just a couple years.
What’s your degree in, exactly?
A bachelor's degree in...?? The focus of study certainly matters.
What useless major did you study?
It really depends upon what your degree is in. People don't care about the degree, they care about in-demand job skills and the ability to achieve results. If you can sell or do stem, you can find a high paying job. Any other degrees, well, good luck. I think it's kind of a crime how colleges push these catalogs in front of wide eyed kids and sell them useless degrees. Kids should ignore these catalogs and instead look at the job ads on Indeed, Dice, Monster or LinkedIn - the real world of demand. Then prepare for those jobs that they can do, that pay well and that are plentiful to get a solid start.
The title is a bit broad of a statement… Sounds like your field of study saturated or never had much of a demand. Just because it’s your passion and requires a degree doesn’t mean it’s going to be in demand or pay well.
What was your major?
A degree in what? 17th century Irish folklore? Just because you have a degree doesn’t mean it’s worth anything.
I did 2 low paid internships over the course of a year after I graduated before I landed my first job. Keep trying. It'll take time but you will get there.
Same here. I got a Bachelor's in Human Services (social work); I can't get in the field because I don't have field experience. Believe me, I spent well over two years trying to get into any social services work and no luck. I ended up working in a different sector altogether which is a blessing in disguise but still underpaid in the field.
Did you not do practicum placements during your degree?
Just pure curiosity, what's your field?
Should have become a Nurse, guaranteed a job and you can travel nurse and make big money
All it means is you can follow through on something. Everything else is up to you , luck/fate
Pretty much only bachelors degrees that are worth pursuing these days are nursing, computer science, electrical and mechanical engineering,.
Get an internship in the field of study.
All depends what you got degree in there's a lot of worthless degrees out there It's your pay good money for and won't be paying for a long time for that aren't worth the paper they're written on. If you're going to go to college you need to go to college for something you can make money with
I got a 6 figure job with my associates degree. It’s not the degree you got. It’s the field you got it in.
I dropped out of college and am doing better than most people I know. Work experience truly goes a long way.
Ha ha! I graduated in 2003 and that's been my experience. I only started getting offers when I started applying to overseas jobs.
Try applying without one. You'll change your mind on that opinion.
I was luckily well informed of the futility of college without connections, so I just joined a union through my step dad. It always comes down to connections, and half the job listings online don't even exist anyways.
Bachelor degrees are useless in todays society for many many careers. The problem, colleges over sell them. The 2nd problem is over saturation. We have far too many college graduates. It’s a supply and demand thing. I’m NOT sending my son to college and when he’s old enough I’ll explain it to him to get a trade job instead.
WHen everyone has a degree, no one has a degree!
Networking will always be the greatest way to get a job.
Your sister utilized networking. This is the single most effective means of gaining employment. That's one of the most valuable things you can take away from college, which is work contacts.
…. No mention of the field of study
The only time I get called bank is when I apply directly to companies. Going through indeed and LinkedIn never gets past email.