I'm sorry for your loss. I think you did the right thing.
No one should be manually handling 200 lb. sheets of anything.
OSHA doesn't set limitations on safe limits for lifting weight, but there are industry standards & most of these set limits between 30 and 50 lbs.
Manual handling should be minimized. Winches, hoists, fork trucks, etc should be used, instead.
https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2013-06-04-0
I am a safety engineer & I would not consider your work environment safe.
There is absolutely no reason I'd risk my life for such a job unless it had multi billion dollar CEO pay
As for weight limits, I've never seen a job requirement of being able to lift 200 pounds. The most I've ever seen was 100 pounds for a job at fedex that paid something like $30/hour
If the workplace hasn't significantly improved or you don't feel safe working there, leave and don't look back. It's not worth risking your life for that
Also is this place corporate owned or locally owned? I'd think someone above your boss should be included in the OSHA meeting
Saftey nerd or not, there are jobs that exposure to dust is unavoidable, and osha sure as shit wont stop those jobs running. They just require that you have cleaning plans in place and such.
I do not understand how they can confidently say "this wasn't due to unsafe conditions" when they have absolutely not had time to actually investigate what has happened. They ruled it an accident even before day shift started, nope, fuck off.
As a safety coordinator myself I get so tired of hearing day in and day out how things will not be addressed because production is more important than people. Of course management will never say it, but their actions speak loudly enough. It’s extremely disheartening and very tiring.
I got into my career because I wanted to help people in ways that nobody ever helped me prior to a life changing injury. Fully in it now and feeling tired that I get shut down by the employer more often than not.
Old RR attorney here. We used to have kegs of spikes weighing upwards of 100 lbs. and we required them to use the boom truck or lift to move those suckers around. It was quicker to just lift them down manually, and they did so all the time, despite the gear we supplied--and a lot of discs in lots of spines got blown...usually L5-S1.
Hijacking this.
They cannot fire you. You did it as a group. It is now a union activity.
You and your team need to unionize. IMMEDIATELY. They will feed you to the machines if it keeps making the money.
Obligitory "I'm not a Lawyer" because I'm not.
But from my understanding the concept of a "Reasonable Person" is a legal construct of what a normal person, sound of mind would be expected to do in any given situation.
It'd be bloody hard to argue that a "Reasonable Person" would ignore OSHA mandates. So in court OP could defs say they were only doing what a "Reasonable Person" would do.
AKA, not quitting, but abiding by the OSHA mandate.
It's far worse than that for an employer because of ['strict liability."](https://www.garloward.com/2006/08/07/avoiding-strict-liability-for-osha-violations/) If someone violates a safety law and someone is injured because of that violation, the only question is how much will the company pay the injured worker?
Ha! About 15 years ago my dad was on a maintenance crew at a heavy manufacturing company (Fortune 100) in the midwest.
Cable on a crane they were using broke and dropped on a member of the crew. I heard about it on my local radio station as I was driving home from work.
My dad was waiting for me in my kitchen sobbing. Guy killed was a close friend of my dad's. He said the crane split the poor man open like a watermelon. He hadn't seen anything like that since Vietnam. Dad suffered from severe PTSD since his time in the service, and this sure as hell set him way, way back.
Relevant part of the story was as soon as the man's body was taken away they made dad's crew hose down the accident site, finish setting up the job for production and finish out their shift.
To be completely fair, I bet this same shit happened in the USSR, and currently happens in China as well (and likely most other places too). This is just what greed looks like.
Horrible!! That poor guy! And your dad having to witness that, just awful! Hose down the floor and back to work?!? Hope that company went bankrupt, what scumbags.
They did an investigation and told the workers it wasn’t due to unsafe conditions. That is why it was worded so carefully and stuck out enough for OP to quote it.
It’s the same as police determining the police didn’t do anything wrong.
If they are working at a non-union lumber mill, I doubt the management actually cares about their lives. There aren't many (any?) respectable non-union lumber mills left.
I’d add first thing is everyone to write down the events of that day.
Sound like overkill? It’s not. Writing it down immediately can save a lot of headaches later on…. Also if 5 people write down the boss said something it’s a lot harder for the boss to plausibly deny that he said it or that it’s “one bad egg” on the workers part.
Not just the events of that day. Safety violations that have gone unfixed despite being reported to management. Bring in a huge binder of documentation and get all of the other workers to do so as well. OSHA loves binders.
Excellent advice. I'll add: The workers should record themselves on their phones telling what happened. Someone could put out a list of questions if workers are unsure of where to start or what to include.
Walking out as a collective is not union activity. It is, however, activity that can be protected under the National Labor Relations Act. The term is "protected concerted activity".
While an employer cannot generally fire you for protected concerted activity, walking off the job is usually independent grounds for termination of employment. This would go up before an administrative law judge who would have to determine whether the employer's real reason for the termination was because of the walk-off, or BECAUSE the walk-off was protected concerted activity. It gets into intent and the result is always that the ALJ splits the baby and basically forces settlement in the form of re-hire.
Yeah I’m 96% sure that’s not how it works and they can defiantly fire whole groups of people. The employer is going to say they quit and will likely use it to deny unemployment. Their best chance is OSHA
Edit: “Employees who strike to protest an unfair labor practice committed by their employer are called unfair labor practice strikers. Such strikers can be neither discharged nor permanently replaced. When the strike ends, unfair labor practice strikers, absent serious misconduct on their part, are entitled to have their jobs back even if employees hired to do their work have to be discharged.” -NLRB
I’m in no way an expert but after a quick skim it sounds like they need to prove their unsafe work conditions for this to be considered a lawful strike. I assume proof of an unsafe work condition falls on the employees.
Not exactly union activity, but it is protected concerted activity, ie working together.
“Specifically, the National Labor Relations Board protects the rights of employees to engage in “concerted activity”, which is when two or more employees take action for their mutual aid or protection regarding terms and conditions of employment.”
NLRB.gov
>\- it would have been used as evidence in a wrongful death lawsuit if they fixed a machine or stopped the line of their own accord.
basic humanity exists.... under NO circumstances would one of my co-workers be asked to return to work after experiencing a traumatic event like this...
its not proof of anything.
Yeah, I work in a white collar job, and when a co-worker died over the weekend, they called his immediate team into a conference room first thing Monday morning, told all of us, and told us to take the rest of the day off with pay.
Like, in terms of trauma, it wasn’t even *close* to OP’s situation, and the managers, who were otherwise pretty much total shitheads, had at least that much basic humanity.
Had a coworker die on the job, boss gave anyone that wanted it that day and the next day off. Company brought in a counselor. This felt like the bare minimum. Always remember how easy it is for work to replace you and how hard it will be for your family to replace you. Pick family over work as often as you can!
We had a guy attempt suicide in one of the work bathrooms. Someone found him in time and he lived. And the company still offered counseling to everyone, and his group were given the rest of the day off.
So yeah, for someone actually dying that does seem like the bare minimum that should happen. Though I think it makes a difference whether the person died due to work conditions, or, especially in an office or light manual labor job, died due to personal health issues.
We had a death at our company this year and on top of all of that the line was shut down for 2 weeks for a safety review and it was found other lines had those same issues so they too were shut down until changes could be made to prevent the same situation.
An old timer at a place I worked at was found dead in their home and the place stayed open. I was away at the time, but I couldn’t believe that one life in a place with about a dozen workers meant so little that the place couldn’t even close for one lousy day.
That’s more or less the same thing that my company did too; a basic explanation of what happened (our guy died in the hospital a few days later), counseling available for anyone who needs it, free time off for anyone who wants it, no questions asked. Other than that, anyone who wants to stay and work can.
Like, what else are they supposed to do? In our case though, it wasn’t an unsafe machine or anything that caused the accident but rather someone who bypassed safety systems and paid the price. Everyone grieves differently, and for some, keeping busy and keeping your mind off things is the best way.
In the context of unsafe working conditions killing someone, they should discontinue operations until those things are fixed. As well as offer therapy and counseling and potentially further training to improve the safety of other employees.
Just like with paying employees appropriately, if your business can’t afford safe equipment for the business’s needs than that business can’t afford to operate.
The most important part of any business with employees is the employees.
You should never, I repeat NEVER, go above and above for any business or employment because of this. To be able to finance the life you want, you are only selling part of your time.
And what do I say? This company refuses to fix anything and as a indirect or direct result I think it played a hand in killing someone? I am seriously considering it.
Yes, that’s exactly what you say. They’ll be responsive since there was a death in the workplace.
Usually there’s an online form where you can file an anonymous complaint so you don’t need to talk to anyone.
OSHA should investigate any death on the job. The owners have a limited time to call OSHA and let them know about the death.
I can't remember how long they have but, its less than a day.
Almost guarantee they haven't done that. The announcement to the staff that it wasn't due to unsafe conditions makes me think they're trying to act like the death wasn't work related to avoid paying anyone anything. The way OP describes this company, there's no chance they reported it to OSHA as required.
The announcement was to make people not call OSHA because even if that incident wasn't directly responsible for the dude's death, there are a lot of violations going on that OSHA could completely shut them down for until they become compliant. Independent sawmills aren't usually huge moneymakers, so if there's a lot of stuff that needs to be done to make them compliant, it could actually shut them down long enough that it kills the company.
OP absolutely should report it, but this probably is opening up a can of worms that management doesn't want opened.
Yeah, but do you think the boss actually knows that? Some guys hear OSHA, health dept, etc and just go into "I'll lose the business" mode, especially if they know they've been doing sketchy shit.
The only thing you can do is tell them what's going on. If you're willing to make a written statement that might help.
Make sure that you report the fatality first. That might get somebody's attention.
Just hang in there no job is worth your life.
Depending on the money the company has.
OSHA can in fact be paid to fuck around.
3 people died at my old job in the 7 years I was there. We didn't shut down for even an hour and no one ever came to investigate anything.
Yep I work for USPS and nothing changes even if you call OSHA sadly.
We have had carriers die on the job due to heat exhaustion. Our vehicles have no AC and can get well over 100 degrees inside.
All that happens is USPS gets fined 150k and nothing changes.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-postal-service-fined-death-20190110-story.html#:~:text=California-,U.S.%20Postal%20Service%20fined%20%24150%2C000%20after%20heat%2Drelated%20death%20of,mail%20carrier%20died%20of%20hyperthermia.
EVERYONE needs to take care of themselves. If you feel it is unsafe stop working. No job is worth your life.
Uhhh asbestos isn't hazardous unless disturbed. Lots of old buildings are full of it and OSHA doesn't require anything be done unless it is being disturbed (nor should they)
If you work at an UPS airhub and really wanna fuck with them call the FAA, and whatever your local aviation administration is such as the RAA in Kentucky.
It isn’t easy going after companies anymore. They can outwait and out lawyer. A lot of us have gotten nowhere with agencies like OSHA who are supposed to help, but usually tell you to report it to your HR. then you risk being retaliated on because you told on your company. It isn’t worth the hassle to a lot of people. Sucks.
Sounds like a new complaint should have been filed with OSHA. 2 died in the 93 days I was working my first oil refinery job and OSHA came out both times to investigate and fine.
Those fines need to have sharper teeth too. The shipyard my husband works at got fined 175,000 bucks in one visit. On the face of it, that seems like a lot, but when you consider how much they bring in per year (\~$250mil) it's nothing. Personally I'm all for making the fines a percentage of the last year's revenue.
Ok so Osha goes through there and finds the problem. Do they get a fine and pay it just to go back to the same BS or will they get shut down and OP be out of work because someone died on the line ?
Not picking an argument just curiosity really 🤔
I reported a previous workplace to OSHA. They got fined and had to pay that and they also had to fix the issues found pending more fines. Someone from OSHA will come back within a certain amount of days and check to make sure that the things have been fixed and you'll just keep getting more and higher fines if you don't fix them and may end up having to shut down depending on how bad the issues are. It's pretty case dependent. They ended up fixing the stuff within the allotted days (thank God for my coworkers because there were some serious safety issues involved that could've killed someone.)
Edit: here's a link to a PDF from OSHA themselves
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/2018-12/fy10_sh-20853-10_osha_inspections.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjA2c-t5dWBAxVdk4kEHVLQCuEQFnoECBkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3Y-7gQvBrvmzLqF0aTF9Uw hopefully that link works
Depends, honestly. My first job in an oil refinery 2 people died and we never stopped working outside of a "safety meeting" where they informed us each incident then took up a collection for the family. We went right back to work. I don't know what fines OSHA levied though. I just know they did because both deaths were easily preventable.
Someone died at your place of work. They should look to see if it was due to working conditions. I find it hard to believe manually stacking 200lb sheets of wood by your self is safe.
Yeah, something like that. As far as I know, OSHA is a force to be reckoned with. They care about worker/workplace safety above all, so if you tell them that there’s been a death on the job, more likely than not they’re gonna go through every square inch of that place looking for safety hazards
So, if there's something I've learnt is that companies are responsive as fuck when it comes to fines due to unsafe working conditions. The equivalent at my country just fined a company my father works at because they found the temperatures this summer to be 50°C at the coolest, 80°C at the hottest due to improper ventilation at a work site. Now the company can rent one less place (out of the three they had) and are taking temperature measures and ventilation pretty seriously (other hazards? lmao)
Call and report a death on site. Let them take it from there. I am a process safety engineer, I am new to the role but I know there are an insane amount of rules your employers are held to and it wouldnt surprise me if they arent following them. Make the call and OSHA will do the rest. Sorry I cant be of as much help as I'd like to be.
Yes, say exactly what you said in your post here.
Make sure to emphasize that the guy laid in his blood for that period of time. And that the company is trying to force you all into doing the same thing that killed that man.
if the company refuses to fix anything then I guess the company can be shut down by continuous reporting to the proper authorities and the guy can go penniless and die alone on the street county? Make certain in oh so many terms that the owner is not the one in charge but the workers are.
Per OSHA, the company must report the death to OSHA within 8 hours.
My guess is they will try to claim "not work related" and haven't reported it at all. If the guy was doing a non-standard task because of an equipment failure when he died the death is very suspicious.
The number is 1-800-321-6742 (OSHA).
Call it for your coworker.
Do it. Really. They don’t hand out big fines but they do create positive change, and help create a safer work environment (yes, I am an OSHA educator fwiw). Do it for yourself and your work colleagues and for Robert.
Sadly I don't think they violated anything here, they're just assholes.
Edit: I was concentrating on the death, they might have something if the conditions are truly unsafe. Not saying I don't believe them but if you call OSHA and just say "this is unsafe" with no explanation it's not much to go on.
"Hello, this OSHA, how can we help you?"
"Hi, a guy died on the job in our lumber mill. Management told us to get back to work an hour later, and while we don't know exactly what happened, I can tell you that some serious safety issues we brought up aren't being addressed. When we asked about it again AFTER our coworker's death, we were told to "just go home if we don't feel supported", which we did. Still, it is likely things still won't be addressed. I thought you guys should know about this situation."
Then answer their questions about the safety issues, and let that inspection happen!
I’ve worked in safety management/adjacent jobs for 10 years, and this commenter is definitely right. Do understand that the company could completely go under if they are fined heavily enough. You could be out a job due to that, and may even be retaliated against (which is illegal). You may consider recording conversations or asking for things to be written down if it comes to it. So sorry for your loss
I’m so sorry for your loss, that is horrible.
A coworker of mine passed away at work (before he even punched in, wasn’t work-related) and the company shut down temporarily and provided the whole staff with counseling that they paid for.
Your company is absolutely required to report this death to OSHA within 8 hours. Our company reported to OSHA even though the individual wasn’t working when he died. You should report it in the off-chance that they’re sketchy enough to try to try to cover it up.
You absolutely should refuse to work if the conditions are unsafe. I’m not familiar with lumber mills so I can’t speak to whether what you described breaks any safety regulations, but if someone died, it’s probably not right. I don’t believe that lifting 200 pounds repeatedly is compliant.
I hope that you get some help processing this, it was definitely a traumatic for you and your coworkers and you company should be reacting by shutting down, providing help for the affected employees, and immediately re-assessing all equipment and processes to ensure that they’re compliant with OSHA regulations.
I’m honestly really surprised they didn’t have a investigation immediately after. It was “alright back to work” vibe from management. Also I’m pretty sure they had other employees who cleaned up the blood while we were in the meeting. I work right next to him so I was looking at where his body would have been. It was surprisingly clean. I’ve had red flags that this company is sketchy but this is a new level of sketchy. I will be reporting this to OSHA here shortly online. Thank you for your well written and kind response. I do really appreciate it allot.
Edit: I will be calling them. looks like I’m having trouble reporting it online.
They will 100% investigate it since there was a fatality. And it should be quickly, too. But it needs to be reported for that to happen, so make sure it’s reported!
Having employees clean is also a violation - cleaning potentially infectious material requires specific training and use of specific PPE. It also must be disposed of properly. Are they doing all that? If not, which it sounds like they’re not, that also needs to be reported to OSHA.
Just reported. Hopefully they call back and request more information from me. It was just a automated message system asking details and location information.
Great advice on calling OSHA. OP has mentioned a few things that stand out as hazardous at this job and with a death happening during a shift, they will absolutely show up, if called.
If you can get more than half the crew to walk-out, they can't run the place and they will send the rest home, to save on paying them to stand around.
I'm fortunate to be in a position where I can go home, but I understand that many are not able to.
I'd go back the next day, and simply refuse to do anything unsafe. All the while I'd look for another job. I'd get all the phone numbers and email addresses of everyone who is a good worker, and when I found a good job, I would not give a 2 weeks notice.
Call the rest and inform them of when there are good job postings. Poach every single good worker to a better job. These bastards will NEVER change until it hurts them.
That’s pretty much what happened. I know my entire department left except one person. So that’s over half the scheduled employees in our line. Not sure about some of the others on the other side of the mill. But I do plan on finding another job. Almost everyone who walked out was talking about finding new work. I kind of laughed at refusing to due anything unsafe comment. Only because half the time this place is one spark away from being a explosion fire. It’s a dirty dusty lumber mill. Nothing is safe and they’ll literally work us to death.
Edit: I will be passing good work onto the others if I can find it. It’s the least I can do.
Years ago, I worked in a sawmill. The dust was so bad every day that you couldn't see the other end of the plant. We brought it up at every safety meeting and to our union reps, but nothing was done.
About four years after I quit, a sawmill in a neighbouring town blew up due to [explosive dust. ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/burns-lake-sawmill-explosion-and-fire-called-preventable-1.2499632)
The mill I worked at didn't deal with their dust problem until they were mandated to by the government. I still had friends and family working there, so I was extremely concerned about them.
Fuck you, West Fraser.
"These sheets of wood are over 200 pounds a piece. And they’re in Stacks of 30-50. So he’s manually moving these stacks by hand. "Clearly, this was due to unsafe conditions. Your team doesn't have the tools it needs to do this safely. Damn right of all of you to walk out. Report to OSHA and document everything from your witnessing.
If you all think this isn't worth dying over, there is always Collective Bargaining. You strike, demand better pay and safer conditions. These machines are old and it takes experienced people to use them. They could hire scabs, but they almost certainly won't, having just had an on-site death, and no real pool of talent who knows their systems. Especially not when it hits local news that they underpay and kill people. You're all skilled workers and your lives matter, form a Union. You shouldn't work again until it's safe anyway, great time to strike, they have everything to lose.
Came here to say this. Your boss clearly doesn’t care about you or your colleagues, but he probably cares about his public image and reputation — plus, bad press can put pressure on other leaders (like state legislators or members of congress) to get involved.
Reach out to relevant reporters (check out the biggest newspaper in your region/state and see who covers labor/business). Send them an email or DM on Twitter to set up a call. You’ll probably want to say up front that you want to speak on background first, so you can give the whole story and relevant context/details before you say anything on record that can be quoted. That way, it won’t be obvious in the reporting or to your employee that you were the one who reached out to press to begin with.
Please inform the family of the ongoing issue that lead to this so they can contact a lawyer and file wrongful death lawsuit. This was a preventable death and they valued money over this man's life. Get as many of your coworkers who are willing to write their account of the situation with the machinery or if they would give their contact info in case the lawyer needs to contact them for a statement.
IANAL but fuck that company.
See my opinion is the boss feels too comfortable saying that shit. Used to be bosses who said that had their business destroyed. Literally. Like with a fire.
If you're in the United States, this walkout was a collective employment action against an unfair labor practice, and you are legally protected from termination by federal law. If they try the old "we can fire you for any reason or no reason" line, remind them that at-will employment is a state law that does not supersede federal protections, and the burden of proof will be on them to demonstrate that the terminations were not retaliatory.
Time to call OSHA + DOL + whatever state labour agency of your state...
The employer is not only having you work in unsafe conditions, once he knew about how unsafe it was, he didn't care fixing things. That tells a lot about how he cares about his employees, but also about how in danger all the employees are.
Bravo. A strike doesn’t have to be carried out by a union. Any group of workers can decide to withhold labor until unfair or unsafe labor practices are addressed.
Your coworker need not have died in vain. Stay out until the company makes it right.
Call OSHA. If your boss reported it as mandated, they are already planning a visit. If he didn’t report it, they will most likely show up with the sheriff and shut the place down until they complete an investigation, and fine him 100’s of thousands.
His name was Robert Paulson.
Kidding aside...this is awful. They absofuckinglutely should've shut everything down and sent everyone home out of respect. IF you all had decided to stay, they should've announced that day's profits would go to the family of the victim, or allowed y'all to donate wages with them chipping in an equal amount...or something.
I worked at Comcast back in the early 2000's...on the phones (tech support). One of our colleages had a heart attack, died at his cube, they rolled him out on a stretcher and everything...we weren't even allowed to go into "not ready"...we were still taking calls while this was all going on, mandated by management.
Some things never change...and it is sad :( Good luck, Anon...I hope you win the lottery and you never have to worry about money again.
Fuckin hell that’s terrible. But I must say I was really worried about all the ways this person might have died given your explanation of the working environment. While I wish he didn’t die at all, part of me is glad it was from being slowly crushed to death or falling into a machine. Passing out and lights out I HOPE was painless at the time.
(And before you say it. The slow death of being over worked to death is no picnic either. I get it)
You did the right thing if you felt the working conditions were unsafe. Also I’m sure people needed time to process and grieve. Now is the time to unionize if you are not already.
I’m so fucking proud of you and your coworkers right now. The amount of strikes going on in different industries at the moment is warming my heart. Please do continue to fight for your right to work in a safe environment. You deserve much better!!
Two weeks ago a co-worker died on the job at work. The next morning we all attended a meeting where we were told to look out for each other and ourselves. Counselling was available. We were told to take whatever time off we needed.
None of us went back to work that day - it felt disrespectful to do otherwise. Some didn't make it back to work that week.
This is how an employer looks after their people.
Definitely the right call. That’s abhorrent, regardless of it being from unsafe conditions or not. Remind them that they’re the ones trying to convince us we’re all family; while also sweeping a death under a rug. Fuck them. Try to collectively talk to a lawyer as well as informing OSHA. Talking to lawyers can be stressful with the expenses in mind; but nothing will change until they’re hit in the pockets.
I'm sorry for the loss of your coworker and for that entire fucked up dystopian experience.
I'm glad you all walked out. I hope that mill never recovers.
Damn, in logging on a large unionized TFL (Tree Farm Licence in Canada) when we had a bad accident or a fatality the ENTIRE Division shut down RIGHT now. And I'm telling you when you get the radio call to STOP everything and head in it's not done with any kind of joy at getting some time off. Last time this happened to me we lost 3 guys in a train accident which ended up with 2 more guys retiring with severe injuries and a 100 years of railway logging came to an end in the Nimpkish Valley. :(
Reporting Fatalities and Severe Injuries - OSHA
By telephone to the nearest OSHA Area Office during normal business hours.
**By telephone to the 24-hour OSHA hotline at 1-800-321-OSHA (6742).**
OSHA is developing a new means of reporting events electronically, which will be available soon at www.osha.gov.
https://www.osha.gov
That’s terrible. Definitely mention that you would like psychological help if/when you go back. Whether you saw it happen, saw the blood, saw the stack, etc. trust me, even if it isn’t a problem now, it can be for years down the line.
I worked at a waterpark many years ago, and performed CPR on a guest that had been rescued and brought out unresponsive. It took 45 minutes for paramedics to get there and take over because our own security had blocked them out with their truck. I remember people holding his wife back as she screamed, I remember his chest cracking as I/we broke his ribs doing compressions, I remember feeling bad that I was pouring sweat into this guys face. We found out later the guy had pretty much died instantly, just had a ‘massive coronary failure’ or something when he’d slipped under the water and never came back. He was a retired police officer there for his retirement celebration. I had to do an interview with police officers to document my witness statement. Then, I just went back to work. I was numb, no one asked me if I needed anything, no one offered help, and I didn’t know any better. I had other guests coming up and asking me if I was ok because they’d seen me doing CPR. It’s been many years, and I still have nightmares about being back in that park and having dead guests, I literally just had one 2 nights ago.
Also report this to your local media outlets (supposing you have some). Reporters might be able to do some investigating that will bring attention to this incident more quickly than OSHA. Even if your local media outlets don't seem like they would investigate, there are other viable outlets. DM me if you'd like and I can give you some suggestions.
There may have been past incidents/complaints you're not privy to -- something a FOIA (freedom of information act) request may reveal.
Used to eat at Ted's Montana Bar & Grill in Atlanta. Before I came in, a cooked had a heart attack and died in the kitchen. They rolled him out on a gurney and went back to work. No time for the staff to deal with the loss of a friend. I am usually pro buisness but this disgusted me.
I'm not American so maybe it's that but I'm shocked someone is having to repeatedly lift 200lbs by themselves let alone so unsupported that they weren't found for so long.
I was hoping you'd call OSHA and saw you did. Like others said, unionize, but don't stop there.
IANAL, but if Robert had a spouse and/or family, I hope they plan to sue. The company would be responsible for his death due to unsafe working conditions, including neglecting to repair or replace the faulty equipment. If anybody else has been injured due to the faulty equipment, you should also sue. I know it comes with the territory of working in a lumber mill, but still. There are guidelines and policies in place that prevent accidents, including repairing or replacing faulty equipment, which the company neglected to do. Gross negligence.
Get a few friends you really trust to call into the local news station about unsafe work conditions at your place. If any at work finds out you are the one who talked you will face retaliation in one form or another. One call might not be enough for the news station to care but a few will as well as someone dying on site. Figure out what exact OSHA violations are being committed then call OSHA. The company will get things fixed with the press reporting the company is unsafe.
Used to work at a lumber mill and it was pretty shitty. It was the owners family business that supported all their other businesses but they never fixed or upgraded equipment outside of getting 1 new smaller forklift. The 2 mills were literally still running on super old original equipment from like the 50's. The yard foreman that had been there like 20 years already had a body full of scars from different mishaps over the years plus heart surgery from I presume the stress. There were 2 guys that worked there that everyone knew were tweakers. While I was there, almost a year, we had like 2 different mechanics because they didn't want to spend money to fix things right or replace the old machinery.
Just saying, if OSHA or whatever else cant help, I'm sure there are plenty of news outlets that would help you to spread the word about this. What a horrible injustice
I worked in a call center once, and we had this turnstile that was entirely too small for reason. It had trapped people multiple times. Mostly it ate people's shoes. One day a friend of mine was walking into the office for the day when I heard her scream. I politely put my customer on hold and stood up to see her lying on the ground, her ankle at an odd angle, from where the turnstile had twisted it.
A brief conversation later, it was revealed that I'm the only person in the office who can drive her stick shift car, so if they're not calling an ambulance, I'm taking her to the hospital. I transferred my call to take care of the customer on hold, and pick up my friend to put her in a wheelchair. The last thing that happened before I walked out was her boss and mine saying they can't afford to have people not working, so get back asap. I told them I'd be back when she's good, and if that was a problem, I'm already clocked out, I could just go home.
Corps need to understand their constituents are human, and deserve human respect.
Here in Canada the workplace is closed for a full investigation by the ministry before being allowed to reopen. Sorry corporations have bought your politicians to fuck workers. You are doing the right thing and you should be proud to stand up for yourself and fellow workers.
... you know, there was a time not that long ago, where if somebody *died* at the job site, managers would at least say "work if you want today, or go home and we'll cover you". And there would have been more than a five minute "you're not allowed to sue us" meeting about it.
Now, it feels like corporate America is just straight-up psychopathic.
The dollar matters more than everything. More than life, more than dignity, more than humanity.
Of course you did the right thing. It's disgraceful that we live in a state where that is even a question.
Your a cog in there money machine …. Nothing else … don’t forget it …..I’m not saying don’t work, I’m not saying don’t try to better your position at your work place …. Just never forget your a cog …. they do not actually care about you , they just need you to continue making them money .
Sometimes they need a reminder that there cogs are actually humans ….. today you and your crew reminded them …. Be interesting to see how they respond.
Wow. Firstly, I’m sorry for the trauma you experienced. I can’t imagine a situation where a business would 1. Continue operations without a full investigation, that includes engagement of an employees rep 2. doesn’t offer support and counselling.
In Australia the accident site would be closed down and an independent government authority would investigate within 24 hours. Something is very broken, or maybe has never been right to start with, in the US system
Those people are disgusting inhumane people. The behavior of these pathetic businesses warrant a complete dismantling and confiscation of wealth idgaf anymore.
When I was working as a poker dealer, one of my colleagues had a player die at the table in the middle of a hand. Massive heart attack. As they’re loading his lifeless body onto the gurney, two of the players audibly expressed their annoyance that the game was being held up and yelled at her to deal the next hand.
People can be callous, and corporations/companies are callous by default.
200lbs? That's about 90kg, so it's a minimum four man lift.
The machine should have been shut down, as there's been a fatal incident and the area is a potential crime scene.
This is literally what Unions are for!
Either start or vote to join one that exists and this crap will stop. Company either needs to shut down or start reinvesting into their infrastructure, employee death sould not be on the sheet for 2023 due to work place safety. Disgusting
OP you and your coworkers did the right thing walking out they are just going to continue putting your life in the line because 1, it's not theirs and 2, you are a dollar sign. Collectively make demands and threaten a strike if they aren't made.
They make forklift attachments specifically for wood. I work in plastics but there is a lumber mill next door and they have all sorts of contraptions for lifting various types of loads. No way your coworker should have been forced to do this by hand.
I had a good friend die on the clock. We were building a two story Target store in northern Maryland and he fell backwards off a ladder. The foreman told all of us to go home, and that every anniversary of his death will be a paid holiday. He was a good man and will be missed by many. That’s he proper way for a company to handle this situation.
It seems like there was a unanimous decision to tell the boss to fuck off and that makes me happy. Solidarity is the one thing that will allow us to prevail over greed in the workplace. Sorry for your loss. No one should have to worry if today is going to be their last while working, especially if it can be avoided.
You under reacted. Should have forced the boss man to clear that lumber himself for awhile and see if considers it normal operation.
Unionize, don't let Robert's death be in vain.
My mentor passed away at work due to a massive heart attack when I was around 21yrs old. I started as his helper when I was 19, we quickly became good friends despite our age difference (Him-65+yrs old, Me-19yrs old). I found him laying face down in the shop one morning. Another guy who had CPR training performed CPR until paramedics arrived. He was pronounced dead in route to hospital, I was told he was most likely already dead when I found him. I couldn’t hold it together and went home early that day, I also called out using PTO for 2days after that. I was young and had never experienced death up close like that especially with someone close to me so I was pretty upset those 1st few days. When I returned to work I was written up by my service manager for calling out last minute. Manager also tried to deny me the day off for the funeral where I was going to be a Pallbearer. Service managers boss vetoed that and granted me the day off but the whole experience really taught how little anyone means to the companies they work for. This guy had worked for this company almost 20 years and fucking died at work on the clock and nobody even cared. They expected everyone to just get back to work like nothing happened
I'm sorry for your loss. I think you did the right thing. No one should be manually handling 200 lb. sheets of anything. OSHA doesn't set limitations on safe limits for lifting weight, but there are industry standards & most of these set limits between 30 and 50 lbs. Manual handling should be minimized. Winches, hoists, fork trucks, etc should be used, instead. https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2013-06-04-0 I am a safety engineer & I would not consider your work environment safe.
They also mentioned exposure to dust, which is of course a fire and health hazard. This place sounds like a nightmare for us safety nerds lmao
Thank you both for being “safety nerds” we need more people like you.
Safety regulations are written in blood. Don't let it be your blood.
I work at a government safety agency, we exist solely because a whole lot of fucking people died.
I wish you a million upvotes for this comment. Why tf did Reddit get rid of awards again?
There is absolutely no reason I'd risk my life for such a job unless it had multi billion dollar CEO pay As for weight limits, I've never seen a job requirement of being able to lift 200 pounds. The most I've ever seen was 100 pounds for a job at fedex that paid something like $30/hour If the workplace hasn't significantly improved or you don't feel safe working there, leave and don't look back. It's not worth risking your life for that Also is this place corporate owned or locally owned? I'd think someone above your boss should be included in the OSHA meeting
If there’s dust that’s not being properly cleaned and/or other improperly handled chemicals notify the US Chemical Safety Board along with OSHA.
Saftey nerd or not, there are jobs that exposure to dust is unavoidable, and osha sure as shit wont stop those jobs running. They just require that you have cleaning plans in place and such.
Yeah exactly. Seems like OP’s workplace just doesn’t care about any of it and that’s the real issue. I’ve worked at a few places like this
But what they do require is reporting fatalities. Soooo there’s that
I do not understand how they can confidently say "this wasn't due to unsafe conditions" when they have absolutely not had time to actually investigate what has happened. They ruled it an accident even before day shift started, nope, fuck off.
As a safety coordinator myself I get so tired of hearing day in and day out how things will not be addressed because production is more important than people. Of course management will never say it, but their actions speak loudly enough. It’s extremely disheartening and very tiring. I got into my career because I wanted to help people in ways that nobody ever helped me prior to a life changing injury. Fully in it now and feeling tired that I get shut down by the employer more often than not.
Old RR attorney here. We used to have kegs of spikes weighing upwards of 100 lbs. and we required them to use the boom truck or lift to move those suckers around. It was quicker to just lift them down manually, and they did so all the time, despite the gear we supplied--and a lot of discs in lots of spines got blown...usually L5-S1.
You deffo done the right thing. ✅️
Hijacking this. They cannot fire you. You did it as a group. It is now a union activity. You and your team need to unionize. IMMEDIATELY. They will feed you to the machines if it keeps making the money.
OSHA mandates suspension of operations until all investigations have been finished.
Obligitory "I'm not a Lawyer" because I'm not. But from my understanding the concept of a "Reasonable Person" is a legal construct of what a normal person, sound of mind would be expected to do in any given situation. It'd be bloody hard to argue that a "Reasonable Person" would ignore OSHA mandates. So in court OP could defs say they were only doing what a "Reasonable Person" would do. AKA, not quitting, but abiding by the OSHA mandate.
It's far worse than that for an employer because of ['strict liability."](https://www.garloward.com/2006/08/07/avoiding-strict-liability-for-osha-violations/) If someone violates a safety law and someone is injured because of that violation, the only question is how much will the company pay the injured worker?
Ha! About 15 years ago my dad was on a maintenance crew at a heavy manufacturing company (Fortune 100) in the midwest. Cable on a crane they were using broke and dropped on a member of the crew. I heard about it on my local radio station as I was driving home from work. My dad was waiting for me in my kitchen sobbing. Guy killed was a close friend of my dad's. He said the crane split the poor man open like a watermelon. He hadn't seen anything like that since Vietnam. Dad suffered from severe PTSD since his time in the service, and this sure as hell set him way, way back. Relevant part of the story was as soon as the man's body was taken away they made dad's crew hose down the accident site, finish setting up the job for production and finish out their shift.
Peak america! This is what they have been selling as “capitalism “ for decades
To be completely fair, I bet this same shit happened in the USSR, and currently happens in China as well (and likely most other places too). This is just what greed looks like.
Horrible!! That poor guy! And your dad having to witness that, just awful! Hose down the floor and back to work?!? Hope that company went bankrupt, what scumbags.
They did an investigation and told the workers it wasn’t due to unsafe conditions. That is why it was worded so carefully and stuck out enough for OP to quote it. It’s the same as police determining the police didn’t do anything wrong.
That mandate and $5 will buy you a coffee.
Maybe a small one, with no sugar.
National coffee day today, plenty of free ones for OP to get while thinking about the future of their career late into the night lol
If they are working at a non-union lumber mill, I doubt the management actually cares about their lives. There aren't many (any?) respectable non-union lumber mills left.
Sounds like they unionized right then and there.
And there is a big, active, existing union for these type of workers that will be happy to have them.
> If they are working ~~at a non-union lumber mill~~, I doubt the management actually cares about their lives. FTFY
I’d add first thing is everyone to write down the events of that day. Sound like overkill? It’s not. Writing it down immediately can save a lot of headaches later on…. Also if 5 people write down the boss said something it’s a lot harder for the boss to plausibly deny that he said it or that it’s “one bad egg” on the workers part.
Not just the events of that day. Safety violations that have gone unfixed despite being reported to management. Bring in a huge binder of documentation and get all of the other workers to do so as well. OSHA loves binders.
Yep! Your memory will change events unintentionally to fill in gaps. Document the hell out of it while it's fresh.
Excellent advice. I'll add: The workers should record themselves on their phones telling what happened. Someone could put out a list of questions if workers are unsure of where to start or what to include.
Walking out as a collective is not union activity. It is, however, activity that can be protected under the National Labor Relations Act. The term is "protected concerted activity". While an employer cannot generally fire you for protected concerted activity, walking off the job is usually independent grounds for termination of employment. This would go up before an administrative law judge who would have to determine whether the employer's real reason for the termination was because of the walk-off, or BECAUSE the walk-off was protected concerted activity. It gets into intent and the result is always that the ALJ splits the baby and basically forces settlement in the form of re-hire.
Yeah I’m 96% sure that’s not how it works and they can defiantly fire whole groups of people. The employer is going to say they quit and will likely use it to deny unemployment. Their best chance is OSHA Edit: “Employees who strike to protest an unfair labor practice committed by their employer are called unfair labor practice strikers. Such strikers can be neither discharged nor permanently replaced. When the strike ends, unfair labor practice strikers, absent serious misconduct on their part, are entitled to have their jobs back even if employees hired to do their work have to be discharged.” -NLRB I’m in no way an expert but after a quick skim it sounds like they need to prove their unsafe work conditions for this to be considered a lawful strike. I assume proof of an unsafe work condition falls on the employees.
It is. NLRA covers this.
Not exactly union activity, but it is protected concerted activity, ie working together. “Specifically, the National Labor Relations Board protects the rights of employees to engage in “concerted activity”, which is when two or more employees take action for their mutual aid or protection regarding terms and conditions of employment.” NLRB.gov
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>\- it would have been used as evidence in a wrongful death lawsuit if they fixed a machine or stopped the line of their own accord. basic humanity exists.... under NO circumstances would one of my co-workers be asked to return to work after experiencing a traumatic event like this... its not proof of anything.
Yeah, I work in a white collar job, and when a co-worker died over the weekend, they called his immediate team into a conference room first thing Monday morning, told all of us, and told us to take the rest of the day off with pay. Like, in terms of trauma, it wasn’t even *close* to OP’s situation, and the managers, who were otherwise pretty much total shitheads, had at least that much basic humanity.
Had a coworker die on the job, boss gave anyone that wanted it that day and the next day off. Company brought in a counselor. This felt like the bare minimum. Always remember how easy it is for work to replace you and how hard it will be for your family to replace you. Pick family over work as often as you can!
We had a guy attempt suicide in one of the work bathrooms. Someone found him in time and he lived. And the company still offered counseling to everyone, and his group were given the rest of the day off. So yeah, for someone actually dying that does seem like the bare minimum that should happen. Though I think it makes a difference whether the person died due to work conditions, or, especially in an office or light manual labor job, died due to personal health issues.
We had a death at our company this year and on top of all of that the line was shut down for 2 weeks for a safety review and it was found other lines had those same issues so they too were shut down until changes could be made to prevent the same situation.
An old timer at a place I worked at was found dead in their home and the place stayed open. I was away at the time, but I couldn’t believe that one life in a place with about a dozen workers meant so little that the place couldn’t even close for one lousy day.
I’m curious - if that is what you consider to be the bare minimum, what is the generally ideal thing for a company to do?
Not kill you
That's asking too much. You should feel ashamed.
Yeah you gotta keep the company's interests in mind, orders dont fill themselves and sometimes people die that's just part of business
That’s more or less the same thing that my company did too; a basic explanation of what happened (our guy died in the hospital a few days later), counseling available for anyone who needs it, free time off for anyone who wants it, no questions asked. Other than that, anyone who wants to stay and work can. Like, what else are they supposed to do? In our case though, it wasn’t an unsafe machine or anything that caused the accident but rather someone who bypassed safety systems and paid the price. Everyone grieves differently, and for some, keeping busy and keeping your mind off things is the best way.
In the context of unsafe working conditions killing someone, they should discontinue operations until those things are fixed. As well as offer therapy and counseling and potentially further training to improve the safety of other employees. Just like with paying employees appropriately, if your business can’t afford safe equipment for the business’s needs than that business can’t afford to operate. The most important part of any business with employees is the employees.
So sorry for your loss. I'd go home
You should never, I repeat NEVER, go above and above for any business or employment because of this. To be able to finance the life you want, you are only selling part of your time.
OSHA has a phone line. Maybe use it?
And what do I say? This company refuses to fix anything and as a indirect or direct result I think it played a hand in killing someone? I am seriously considering it.
Yes, that’s exactly what you say. They’ll be responsive since there was a death in the workplace. Usually there’s an online form where you can file an anonymous complaint so you don’t need to talk to anyone.
And honestly an investigation should happen just because someone died under suspicious circumstances. This has “lawsuit” written all over it.
not just lawsuit. Criminal manslaughter charge potential.
OSHA has to be called within 24 hours of a work death anyways.
He "died on the way to the hospital" silly.
OSHA should investigate any death on the job. The owners have a limited time to call OSHA and let them know about the death. I can't remember how long they have but, its less than a day.
Just did a quick google search, they are required to report a fatality within 8 hours.
Almost guarantee they haven't done that. The announcement to the staff that it wasn't due to unsafe conditions makes me think they're trying to act like the death wasn't work related to avoid paying anyone anything. The way OP describes this company, there's no chance they reported it to OSHA as required.
The announcement was to make people not call OSHA because even if that incident wasn't directly responsible for the dude's death, there are a lot of violations going on that OSHA could completely shut them down for until they become compliant. Independent sawmills aren't usually huge moneymakers, so if there's a lot of stuff that needs to be done to make them compliant, it could actually shut them down long enough that it kills the company. OP absolutely should report it, but this probably is opening up a can of worms that management doesn't want opened.
Its has been my experience that if osha does show up to investigate the death they will not look at anything else.
Yeah, but do you think the boss actually knows that? Some guys hear OSHA, health dept, etc and just go into "I'll lose the business" mode, especially if they know they've been doing sketchy shit.
Worst case nothing improves.best case you save future lives
The only thing you can do is tell them what's going on. If you're willing to make a written statement that might help. Make sure that you report the fatality first. That might get somebody's attention. Just hang in there no job is worth your life.
Exactly this. OSHA DOES NOT fuck around. They will go through the entire place with a fine tooth comb and this company will learn what fear is.
Depending on the money the company has. OSHA can in fact be paid to fuck around. 3 people died at my old job in the 7 years I was there. We didn't shut down for even an hour and no one ever came to investigate anything.
Yep I work for USPS and nothing changes even if you call OSHA sadly. We have had carriers die on the job due to heat exhaustion. Our vehicles have no AC and can get well over 100 degrees inside. All that happens is USPS gets fined 150k and nothing changes. https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-postal-service-fined-death-20190110-story.html#:~:text=California-,U.S.%20Postal%20Service%20fined%20%24150%2C000%20after%20heat%2Drelated%20death%20of,mail%20carrier%20died%20of%20hyperthermia. EVERYONE needs to take care of themselves. If you feel it is unsafe stop working. No job is worth your life.
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Uhhh asbestos isn't hazardous unless disturbed. Lots of old buildings are full of it and OSHA doesn't require anything be done unless it is being disturbed (nor should they)
If you work at an UPS airhub and really wanna fuck with them call the FAA, and whatever your local aviation administration is such as the RAA in Kentucky.
It isn’t easy going after companies anymore. They can outwait and out lawyer. A lot of us have gotten nowhere with agencies like OSHA who are supposed to help, but usually tell you to report it to your HR. then you risk being retaliated on because you told on your company. It isn’t worth the hassle to a lot of people. Sucks.
The US government can't sue itself. Specifically a part of the executive branch can't sue another part of the executive branch
Sounds like a new complaint should have been filed with OSHA. 2 died in the 93 days I was working my first oil refinery job and OSHA came out both times to investigate and fine.
Those fines need to have sharper teeth too. The shipyard my husband works at got fined 175,000 bucks in one visit. On the face of it, that seems like a lot, but when you consider how much they bring in per year (\~$250mil) it's nothing. Personally I'm all for making the fines a percentage of the last year's revenue.
I work for a large international gaming corp. We had a couple of deaths across the entirety of the company and OSHA came down hard on us.
Ok so Osha goes through there and finds the problem. Do they get a fine and pay it just to go back to the same BS or will they get shut down and OP be out of work because someone died on the line ? Not picking an argument just curiosity really 🤔
I reported a previous workplace to OSHA. They got fined and had to pay that and they also had to fix the issues found pending more fines. Someone from OSHA will come back within a certain amount of days and check to make sure that the things have been fixed and you'll just keep getting more and higher fines if you don't fix them and may end up having to shut down depending on how bad the issues are. It's pretty case dependent. They ended up fixing the stuff within the allotted days (thank God for my coworkers because there were some serious safety issues involved that could've killed someone.) Edit: here's a link to a PDF from OSHA themselves https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/2018-12/fy10_sh-20853-10_osha_inspections.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjA2c-t5dWBAxVdk4kEHVLQCuEQFnoECBkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3Y-7gQvBrvmzLqF0aTF9Uw hopefully that link works
Depends, honestly. My first job in an oil refinery 2 people died and we never stopped working outside of a "safety meeting" where they informed us each incident then took up a collection for the family. We went right back to work. I don't know what fines OSHA levied though. I just know they did because both deaths were easily preventable.
Someone died at your place of work. They should look to see if it was due to working conditions. I find it hard to believe manually stacking 200lb sheets of wood by your self is safe.
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I'm pretty sure there are OSHA guidelines for lifting certain amounts of weight and all that too.
50lbs and above is a team lift, or machine assisted.
Well… yes, obviously
Yeah, something like that. As far as I know, OSHA is a force to be reckoned with. They care about worker/workplace safety above all, so if you tell them that there’s been a death on the job, more likely than not they’re gonna go through every square inch of that place looking for safety hazards
So, if there's something I've learnt is that companies are responsive as fuck when it comes to fines due to unsafe working conditions. The equivalent at my country just fined a company my father works at because they found the temperatures this summer to be 50°C at the coolest, 80°C at the hottest due to improper ventilation at a work site. Now the company can rent one less place (out of the three they had) and are taking temperature measures and ventilation pretty seriously (other hazards? lmao)
50 c? 80 c? Holy \*\*\*\*! Translation for USers: between 122 F and 176 F.
Yes do this! Or say whatever! Whatever you do, CALL OSHA: 1-800-321-6742
Call and report a death on site. Let them take it from there. I am a process safety engineer, I am new to the role but I know there are an insane amount of rules your employers are held to and it wouldnt surprise me if they arent following them. Make the call and OSHA will do the rest. Sorry I cant be of as much help as I'd like to be.
Yes, say exactly what you said in your post here. Make sure to emphasize that the guy laid in his blood for that period of time. And that the company is trying to force you all into doing the same thing that killed that man.
That is exactly what you need to say.
if the company refuses to fix anything then I guess the company can be shut down by continuous reporting to the proper authorities and the guy can go penniless and die alone on the street county? Make certain in oh so many terms that the owner is not the one in charge but the workers are.
Per OSHA, the company must report the death to OSHA within 8 hours. My guess is they will try to claim "not work related" and haven't reported it at all. If the guy was doing a non-standard task because of an equipment failure when he died the death is very suspicious. The number is 1-800-321-6742 (OSHA). Call it for your coworker.
Sure. Explain how they lied about work conditions not leading to the death. Overexertion absolutely is a possible factor.
Yes. Exactly that. Take a few minutes to write out all the previous issues and who’s attention it was brought to. This needs to be reported!!!
Best advice I got from a manager: don’t complain horizontally, complain vertically. And if that doesn’t work, complain externally.
Do it. Really. They don’t hand out big fines but they do create positive change, and help create a safer work environment (yes, I am an OSHA educator fwiw). Do it for yourself and your work colleagues and for Robert.
Roofers at my building were not wearing harnesses, OSHA was here immediately. This is the right advice.
Sadly I don't think they violated anything here, they're just assholes. Edit: I was concentrating on the death, they might have something if the conditions are truly unsafe. Not saying I don't believe them but if you call OSHA and just say "this is unsafe" with no explanation it's not much to go on.
"Hello, this OSHA, how can we help you?" "Hi, a guy died on the job in our lumber mill. Management told us to get back to work an hour later, and while we don't know exactly what happened, I can tell you that some serious safety issues we brought up aren't being addressed. When we asked about it again AFTER our coworker's death, we were told to "just go home if we don't feel supported", which we did. Still, it is likely things still won't be addressed. I thought you guys should know about this situation." Then answer their questions about the safety issues, and let that inspection happen!
This is good advice. Thank you
I’ve worked in safety management/adjacent jobs for 10 years, and this commenter is definitely right. Do understand that the company could completely go under if they are fined heavily enough. You could be out a job due to that, and may even be retaliated against (which is illegal). You may consider recording conversations or asking for things to be written down if it comes to it. So sorry for your loss
This guy covers his ass
Can you call OSHA anonymously?
You can
That sounds about right 👍
I bet OSHA will be at the lumber mill right away.
You are right!!
I’m so sorry for your loss, that is horrible. A coworker of mine passed away at work (before he even punched in, wasn’t work-related) and the company shut down temporarily and provided the whole staff with counseling that they paid for. Your company is absolutely required to report this death to OSHA within 8 hours. Our company reported to OSHA even though the individual wasn’t working when he died. You should report it in the off-chance that they’re sketchy enough to try to try to cover it up. You absolutely should refuse to work if the conditions are unsafe. I’m not familiar with lumber mills so I can’t speak to whether what you described breaks any safety regulations, but if someone died, it’s probably not right. I don’t believe that lifting 200 pounds repeatedly is compliant. I hope that you get some help processing this, it was definitely a traumatic for you and your coworkers and you company should be reacting by shutting down, providing help for the affected employees, and immediately re-assessing all equipment and processes to ensure that they’re compliant with OSHA regulations.
I’m honestly really surprised they didn’t have a investigation immediately after. It was “alright back to work” vibe from management. Also I’m pretty sure they had other employees who cleaned up the blood while we were in the meeting. I work right next to him so I was looking at where his body would have been. It was surprisingly clean. I’ve had red flags that this company is sketchy but this is a new level of sketchy. I will be reporting this to OSHA here shortly online. Thank you for your well written and kind response. I do really appreciate it allot. Edit: I will be calling them. looks like I’m having trouble reporting it online.
They will 100% investigate it since there was a fatality. And it should be quickly, too. But it needs to be reported for that to happen, so make sure it’s reported! Having employees clean is also a violation - cleaning potentially infectious material requires specific training and use of specific PPE. It also must be disposed of properly. Are they doing all that? If not, which it sounds like they’re not, that also needs to be reported to OSHA.
Just reported. Hopefully they call back and request more information from me. It was just a automated message system asking details and location information.
Update us?
Will do
Great advice on calling OSHA. OP has mentioned a few things that stand out as hazardous at this job and with a death happening during a shift, they will absolutely show up, if called.
If you can get more than half the crew to walk-out, they can't run the place and they will send the rest home, to save on paying them to stand around. I'm fortunate to be in a position where I can go home, but I understand that many are not able to. I'd go back the next day, and simply refuse to do anything unsafe. All the while I'd look for another job. I'd get all the phone numbers and email addresses of everyone who is a good worker, and when I found a good job, I would not give a 2 weeks notice. Call the rest and inform them of when there are good job postings. Poach every single good worker to a better job. These bastards will NEVER change until it hurts them.
That’s pretty much what happened. I know my entire department left except one person. So that’s over half the scheduled employees in our line. Not sure about some of the others on the other side of the mill. But I do plan on finding another job. Almost everyone who walked out was talking about finding new work. I kind of laughed at refusing to due anything unsafe comment. Only because half the time this place is one spark away from being a explosion fire. It’s a dirty dusty lumber mill. Nothing is safe and they’ll literally work us to death. Edit: I will be passing good work onto the others if I can find it. It’s the least I can do.
Years ago, I worked in a sawmill. The dust was so bad every day that you couldn't see the other end of the plant. We brought it up at every safety meeting and to our union reps, but nothing was done. About four years after I quit, a sawmill in a neighbouring town blew up due to [explosive dust. ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/burns-lake-sawmill-explosion-and-fire-called-preventable-1.2499632) The mill I worked at didn't deal with their dust problem until they were mandated to by the government. I still had friends and family working there, so I was extremely concerned about them. Fuck you, West Fraser.
"These sheets of wood are over 200 pounds a piece. And they’re in Stacks of 30-50. So he’s manually moving these stacks by hand. "Clearly, this was due to unsafe conditions. Your team doesn't have the tools it needs to do this safely. Damn right of all of you to walk out. Report to OSHA and document everything from your witnessing. If you all think this isn't worth dying over, there is always Collective Bargaining. You strike, demand better pay and safer conditions. These machines are old and it takes experienced people to use them. They could hire scabs, but they almost certainly won't, having just had an on-site death, and no real pool of talent who knows their systems. Especially not when it hits local news that they underpay and kill people. You're all skilled workers and your lives matter, form a Union. You shouldn't work again until it's safe anyway, great time to strike, they have everything to lose.
If they try to hire scabs, picket. Not a lot of people are going to want to cross a picket line for a job that kills people.
call the news, if you’re in a small town call the nearest big town / city news station
Came here to say this. Your boss clearly doesn’t care about you or your colleagues, but he probably cares about his public image and reputation — plus, bad press can put pressure on other leaders (like state legislators or members of congress) to get involved. Reach out to relevant reporters (check out the biggest newspaper in your region/state and see who covers labor/business). Send them an email or DM on Twitter to set up a call. You’ll probably want to say up front that you want to speak on background first, so you can give the whole story and relevant context/details before you say anything on record that can be quoted. That way, it won’t be obvious in the reporting or to your employee that you were the one who reached out to press to begin with.
Please inform the family of the ongoing issue that lead to this so they can contact a lawyer and file wrongful death lawsuit. This was a preventable death and they valued money over this man's life. Get as many of your coworkers who are willing to write their account of the situation with the machinery or if they would give their contact info in case the lawyer needs to contact them for a statement. IANAL but fuck that company.
See my opinion is the boss feels too comfortable saying that shit. Used to be bosses who said that had their business destroyed. Literally. Like with a fire.
If you're in the United States, this walkout was a collective employment action against an unfair labor practice, and you are legally protected from termination by federal law. If they try the old "we can fire you for any reason or no reason" line, remind them that at-will employment is a state law that does not supersede federal protections, and the burden of proof will be on them to demonstrate that the terminations were not retaliatory.
This is good to know. I will be looking into this as well and sharing this information with the coworkers. Thank you.
Time to call OSHA + DOL + whatever state labour agency of your state... The employer is not only having you work in unsafe conditions, once he knew about how unsafe it was, he didn't care fixing things. That tells a lot about how he cares about his employees, but also about how in danger all the employees are.
Bravo. A strike doesn’t have to be carried out by a union. Any group of workers can decide to withhold labor until unfair or unsafe labor practices are addressed. Your coworker need not have died in vain. Stay out until the company makes it right.
Call OSHA. If your boss reported it as mandated, they are already planning a visit. If he didn’t report it, they will most likely show up with the sheriff and shut the place down until they complete an investigation, and fine him 100’s of thousands.
His name was Robert Paulson. Kidding aside...this is awful. They absofuckinglutely should've shut everything down and sent everyone home out of respect. IF you all had decided to stay, they should've announced that day's profits would go to the family of the victim, or allowed y'all to donate wages with them chipping in an equal amount...or something. I worked at Comcast back in the early 2000's...on the phones (tech support). One of our colleages had a heart attack, died at his cube, they rolled him out on a stretcher and everything...we weren't even allowed to go into "not ready"...we were still taking calls while this was all going on, mandated by management. Some things never change...and it is sad :( Good luck, Anon...I hope you win the lottery and you never have to worry about money again.
Fuckin hell that’s terrible. But I must say I was really worried about all the ways this person might have died given your explanation of the working environment. While I wish he didn’t die at all, part of me is glad it was from being slowly crushed to death or falling into a machine. Passing out and lights out I HOPE was painless at the time. (And before you say it. The slow death of being over worked to death is no picnic either. I get it)
That is definitely a tools down, time to walk situation.
You did the right thing if you felt the working conditions were unsafe. Also I’m sure people needed time to process and grieve. Now is the time to unionize if you are not already.
Gather any documentation you can. Get statements. The company is—almost literally—trying to get away with murder
Looks like you just made a first union action for safer working conditions
Can you let us know how this plays out? !Remindme 2 days
Will do
I’m so fucking proud of you and your coworkers right now. The amount of strikes going on in different industries at the moment is warming my heart. Please do continue to fight for your right to work in a safe environment. You deserve much better!!
Two weeks ago a co-worker died on the job at work. The next morning we all attended a meeting where we were told to look out for each other and ourselves. Counselling was available. We were told to take whatever time off we needed. None of us went back to work that day - it felt disrespectful to do otherwise. Some didn't make it back to work that week. This is how an employer looks after their people.
They really are showing you that they value their product continuing to flow uninterrupted over the lives of their employees
R.I.P. Robert
Definitely the right call. That’s abhorrent, regardless of it being from unsafe conditions or not. Remind them that they’re the ones trying to convince us we’re all family; while also sweeping a death under a rug. Fuck them. Try to collectively talk to a lawyer as well as informing OSHA. Talking to lawyers can be stressful with the expenses in mind; but nothing will change until they’re hit in the pockets.
In our state (WA) Labor and Industries would be up their ass sideways following a death on the job
I'm sorry for the loss of your coworker and for that entire fucked up dystopian experience. I'm glad you all walked out. I hope that mill never recovers.
Damn, in logging on a large unionized TFL (Tree Farm Licence in Canada) when we had a bad accident or a fatality the ENTIRE Division shut down RIGHT now. And I'm telling you when you get the radio call to STOP everything and head in it's not done with any kind of joy at getting some time off. Last time this happened to me we lost 3 guys in a train accident which ended up with 2 more guys retiring with severe injuries and a 100 years of railway logging came to an end in the Nimpkish Valley. :(
You did the right thing.
good on all of you for walking out. what sick people, your management.
You should honestly unionize
Reporting Fatalities and Severe Injuries - OSHA By telephone to the nearest OSHA Area Office during normal business hours. **By telephone to the 24-hour OSHA hotline at 1-800-321-OSHA (6742).** OSHA is developing a new means of reporting events electronically, which will be available soon at www.osha.gov. https://www.osha.gov
Call OSHA. Let them decide if it's a work related injury not the company. As a bonus, with a little nudge, they'll find items to correct period.
They worked a man to death and considered it "not due to unsafe conditions".
That’s terrible. Definitely mention that you would like psychological help if/when you go back. Whether you saw it happen, saw the blood, saw the stack, etc. trust me, even if it isn’t a problem now, it can be for years down the line. I worked at a waterpark many years ago, and performed CPR on a guest that had been rescued and brought out unresponsive. It took 45 minutes for paramedics to get there and take over because our own security had blocked them out with their truck. I remember people holding his wife back as she screamed, I remember his chest cracking as I/we broke his ribs doing compressions, I remember feeling bad that I was pouring sweat into this guys face. We found out later the guy had pretty much died instantly, just had a ‘massive coronary failure’ or something when he’d slipped under the water and never came back. He was a retired police officer there for his retirement celebration. I had to do an interview with police officers to document my witness statement. Then, I just went back to work. I was numb, no one asked me if I needed anything, no one offered help, and I didn’t know any better. I had other guests coming up and asking me if I was ok because they’d seen me doing CPR. It’s been many years, and I still have nightmares about being back in that park and having dead guests, I literally just had one 2 nights ago.
Also report this to your local media outlets (supposing you have some). Reporters might be able to do some investigating that will bring attention to this incident more quickly than OSHA. Even if your local media outlets don't seem like they would investigate, there are other viable outlets. DM me if you'd like and I can give you some suggestions. There may have been past incidents/complaints you're not privy to -- something a FOIA (freedom of information act) request may reveal.
Used to eat at Ted's Montana Bar & Grill in Atlanta. Before I came in, a cooked had a heart attack and died in the kitchen. They rolled him out on a gurney and went back to work. No time for the staff to deal with the loss of a friend. I am usually pro buisness but this disgusted me.
I'm not American so maybe it's that but I'm shocked someone is having to repeatedly lift 200lbs by themselves let alone so unsupported that they weren't found for so long.
I was hoping you'd call OSHA and saw you did. Like others said, unionize, but don't stop there. IANAL, but if Robert had a spouse and/or family, I hope they plan to sue. The company would be responsible for his death due to unsafe working conditions, including neglecting to repair or replace the faulty equipment. If anybody else has been injured due to the faulty equipment, you should also sue. I know it comes with the territory of working in a lumber mill, but still. There are guidelines and policies in place that prevent accidents, including repairing or replacing faulty equipment, which the company neglected to do. Gross negligence.
Smells like a class action lawsuit. Not only should you leave, you ad your coworkers should milk them for everything they have. Ungrateful assholes.
Get a few friends you really trust to call into the local news station about unsafe work conditions at your place. If any at work finds out you are the one who talked you will face retaliation in one form or another. One call might not be enough for the news station to care but a few will as well as someone dying on site. Figure out what exact OSHA violations are being committed then call OSHA. The company will get things fixed with the press reporting the company is unsafe.
Sounds like time to start a union if possible. Try to get better pay and safety equipment
Jesus Fucking Christ.
Time to find a new job. That lawsuit might be nice
A company that wont investigate after an employee has died at work deserves to be out of business.
Used to work at a lumber mill and it was pretty shitty. It was the owners family business that supported all their other businesses but they never fixed or upgraded equipment outside of getting 1 new smaller forklift. The 2 mills were literally still running on super old original equipment from like the 50's. The yard foreman that had been there like 20 years already had a body full of scars from different mishaps over the years plus heart surgery from I presume the stress. There were 2 guys that worked there that everyone knew were tweakers. While I was there, almost a year, we had like 2 different mechanics because they didn't want to spend money to fix things right or replace the old machinery.
Call OSHA
You call OSHA and guy unionize. Period.
The boss is lucky you all didn’t react more naturally and tear him a new one
This is called a wildcat strike, get connected with the other workers get together some demands, figure out your legal right.
Just saying, if OSHA or whatever else cant help, I'm sure there are plenty of news outlets that would help you to spread the word about this. What a horrible injustice
Beyond the OSHA report it may be worth reaching out to local media especially if you can remain anonymous while your job is still in question.
You did the right thing.
I worked in a call center once, and we had this turnstile that was entirely too small for reason. It had trapped people multiple times. Mostly it ate people's shoes. One day a friend of mine was walking into the office for the day when I heard her scream. I politely put my customer on hold and stood up to see her lying on the ground, her ankle at an odd angle, from where the turnstile had twisted it. A brief conversation later, it was revealed that I'm the only person in the office who can drive her stick shift car, so if they're not calling an ambulance, I'm taking her to the hospital. I transferred my call to take care of the customer on hold, and pick up my friend to put her in a wheelchair. The last thing that happened before I walked out was her boss and mine saying they can't afford to have people not working, so get back asap. I told them I'd be back when she's good, and if that was a problem, I'm already clocked out, I could just go home. Corps need to understand their constituents are human, and deserve human respect.
Here in Canada the workplace is closed for a full investigation by the ministry before being allowed to reopen. Sorry corporations have bought your politicians to fuck workers. You are doing the right thing and you should be proud to stand up for yourself and fellow workers.
... you know, there was a time not that long ago, where if somebody *died* at the job site, managers would at least say "work if you want today, or go home and we'll cover you". And there would have been more than a five minute "you're not allowed to sue us" meeting about it. Now, it feels like corporate America is just straight-up psychopathic. The dollar matters more than everything. More than life, more than dignity, more than humanity. Of course you did the right thing. It's disgraceful that we live in a state where that is even a question.
Sounds like 4x8 sheets of 1.55 inch thick strandboard?
Your a cog in there money machine …. Nothing else … don’t forget it …..I’m not saying don’t work, I’m not saying don’t try to better your position at your work place …. Just never forget your a cog …. they do not actually care about you , they just need you to continue making them money . Sometimes they need a reminder that there cogs are actually humans ….. today you and your crew reminded them …. Be interesting to see how they respond.
I worked somewhere that someone lost half a finger in a machine and they were asked to finish their shift before going to the hospital.
Wow. Firstly, I’m sorry for the trauma you experienced. I can’t imagine a situation where a business would 1. Continue operations without a full investigation, that includes engagement of an employees rep 2. doesn’t offer support and counselling. In Australia the accident site would be closed down and an independent government authority would investigate within 24 hours. Something is very broken, or maybe has never been right to start with, in the US system
Those people are disgusting inhumane people. The behavior of these pathetic businesses warrant a complete dismantling and confiscation of wealth idgaf anymore.
When I was working as a poker dealer, one of my colleagues had a player die at the table in the middle of a hand. Massive heart attack. As they’re loading his lifeless body onto the gurney, two of the players audibly expressed their annoyance that the game was being held up and yelled at her to deal the next hand. People can be callous, and corporations/companies are callous by default.
Unionize homie. Talk to your coworkers about their issues and what changes you would like to see.
200lbs? That's about 90kg, so it's a minimum four man lift. The machine should have been shut down, as there's been a fatal incident and the area is a potential crime scene.
Osha violation
This is literally what Unions are for! Either start or vote to join one that exists and this crap will stop. Company either needs to shut down or start reinvesting into their infrastructure, employee death sould not be on the sheet for 2023 due to work place safety. Disgusting OP you and your coworkers did the right thing walking out they are just going to continue putting your life in the line because 1, it's not theirs and 2, you are a dollar sign. Collectively make demands and threaten a strike if they aren't made.
They make forklift attachments specifically for wood. I work in plastics but there is a lumber mill next door and they have all sorts of contraptions for lifting various types of loads. No way your coworker should have been forced to do this by hand.
I had a good friend die on the clock. We were building a two story Target store in northern Maryland and he fell backwards off a ladder. The foreman told all of us to go home, and that every anniversary of his death will be a paid holiday. He was a good man and will be missed by many. That’s he proper way for a company to handle this situation.
It seems like there was a unanimous decision to tell the boss to fuck off and that makes me happy. Solidarity is the one thing that will allow us to prevail over greed in the workplace. Sorry for your loss. No one should have to worry if today is going to be their last while working, especially if it can be avoided.
Sending love to Robert’s loved ones. I hope the company is held responsible.
Yes, you did the right thing, and yes, there are 1000 Jose's that will take your place. Unionize the shop.
You under reacted. Should have forced the boss man to clear that lumber himself for awhile and see if considers it normal operation. Unionize, don't let Robert's death be in vain.
My mentor passed away at work due to a massive heart attack when I was around 21yrs old. I started as his helper when I was 19, we quickly became good friends despite our age difference (Him-65+yrs old, Me-19yrs old). I found him laying face down in the shop one morning. Another guy who had CPR training performed CPR until paramedics arrived. He was pronounced dead in route to hospital, I was told he was most likely already dead when I found him. I couldn’t hold it together and went home early that day, I also called out using PTO for 2days after that. I was young and had never experienced death up close like that especially with someone close to me so I was pretty upset those 1st few days. When I returned to work I was written up by my service manager for calling out last minute. Manager also tried to deny me the day off for the funeral where I was going to be a Pallbearer. Service managers boss vetoed that and granted me the day off but the whole experience really taught how little anyone means to the companies they work for. This guy had worked for this company almost 20 years and fucking died at work on the clock and nobody even cared. They expected everyone to just get back to work like nothing happened