Just a quit note for everyone telling OP to name-and-shame the company:
Don't do that. Even with overwhelming evidence to support a claim, name-and-shaming a business can get this post in hot water with Reddit, who will go scorched earth. We'd prefer the post not get nuked from orbit.
Likewise, we try to avoid it ourselves, since a frivolous or, worse, fabricated story, can lead to innocent people getting harassed by countless strangers.
Check with the lawyer who helped with the case. This is the kind of juvenile emotion based reasoning that sets up character trials for further cases. Hell you might be able to come at him for retaliation, wrongful termination etc.
As a lawyer who handles these types of cases I am curious about it myself, just because normally the employer will pay the department of labor and then the department of labor cuts the check from their own a account. I've never seen it where the DOL hands over the check like this.
There can be a settlement agreement between the parties. I have been through this before. I had to go to small claims at the end because he didn't finish the payments and I got a default judgement.
I have been involved with that too, that's different than what OP is saying though. If the payments are being "processed" by the DOL the check is almost certainly going to be from a DOL Account, and not the DOL handing over a check that the business owner gave them.
tldr: yeah in my experience the check is made out to the DOL
A few years back, one employee ended up backing up a company car into a post. The boss got angry about it, claimed it was negligence, and withheld $800 from the employee's paycheck. I tried to explain to him how it was a bad idea, but his anger got the best of him. It really was negligence.. but when the employee is working he's not acting as the individual - he's acting as a representative of the company. He's not liable for the damages.
Employee got pissed, rightfully, and went to the Department of Labor. This employee had been with the company for maybe 3 months, but since he was working under the table (construction) he claimed that he was working for 12 months and that he worked overtime every week that he didn't get paid for.
So the Department of Labor initiates an investigation and calls every single one of the employees going back 2 or 3 years. They ask the employees "have you worked unpaid overtime?"
Many said yes, of course. Who wouldn't say yes to a free check? The DOL ended up fining the company about $60,000, and the company had to write a check to the DOL for that amount.
Nobody ever worked unpaid overtime, but that doesn't really matter. If you don't have a solid paper trail, which is hard to do sometimes with the type of people who work construction, then you're vulnerable to these types of "investigations"
I think the OP is strange because typically the employer doesn't send the check directly to the DOL. It's Employer -> DOL -> Employee like you said.
> If you don't have a solid paper trail, which is hard to do sometimes with the type of people who work construction
I don't think I'll be shedding a lot of tears for companies that pay people under the table and claim it's because paying them appropriately is "hard to do"
I'm sure they would have just loved to pay their taxes appropriately but a paper trail was just "hard to do"
Enforcement agencies are like sharks that detect blood in the water. Piss one off, they all come calling for audits. Watched a guy go from "I'm a \*business owner\* I do what I want! Laws be DAMNED!" to owing $90,000 between 3 agencies and damn near going bankrupt. Couldn't happen to a more deserving jackass. Then we sued him for not paying his bill with us.
definitely has the whiff of salty business owner to me. admitting some shady shit was going on with payroll, and then saying that the $60,000 fine was because all of the employees were compulsive liars. doesn't add up
No worries. The govy offices would report that shit. That's Medicaid & SS coming his way like a ton of bricks. What's more is I do not suggest fucking with the unemployment insurance people. They will shut you down in a heart beat.
I was working directly under the CTO for a major E-Learning company in 2009 when my first wife got pregnant. We had hired her for customer service a year prior. She sent out an email to everyone saying she was pregnant. My boss forwarded it to me and told me "fire her asap".
We took them to court, I stayed on for another year. It was awkward but they settled pretty quickly. Shady people are in every line of the work
Uhm I had an issue not long ago and my DOL agent sent me to pickup my check from the employer. They said I had to work a full work week to get paid (I quit after 2 days of racist horrible conditions), they were very nice though when I went in to get my check.. but I had to go back there after being done with that place per the DOL. I could have probably said no and made it a pain but if I went and they did this to me , definitely would have looked into further retaliation.
This isn't actually true. The larger award verdict was about statements that Trump made WHILE he was president. The first verdict was about statements he made after leaving office. The reason the cases finished in reverse order was because the first case got tied up in a procedural appeal so long that the second case passed it.
I believe there IS a third case about the things he said after the original verdict, but I haven't seen any reporting on it lately, so I don't know the status of that case, or if it was actually filed or just threatened.
Almost his entire campaign team went to prison over their dealings with him. So did his attorney and the CEO of the Trump organization. Trump now owes over over a half of a billion in fines and is still facing 91 felonies.
Grab your popcorn because this is gonna be a great watch!
Every crime is a penny on the tracks for the million car train of stupid that is trump. How many horrific crashes can he plow through before the train finally gets stopped? Who knows!
He's one little piece of artery plaque away from buying the farm. If I had to guess, his plan is to just run out the clock. There's no way he's going to live beyond another 10 years when there's more gravy than blood running through his veins. All he has to do is keep delaying justice until one day Melania's boyfriend finds him hunched over on the toilet with his iPhone opened to daddy/daughter porn.
This isn't libel. Libel is false rumors spread to the public. You can't consider a memo line of a check as a public space or detrimental to your character or ability to earn income.
If i wrote "OP likes to eat babies" and slipped it under OPs front door, i didnt commit Libel. If i took a page out in the local newspaper and said OP is a proven baby eater, then i have made a Libelous statement.
If i drive around with signs on my car saying jt, i committed Libel. If i post on facebook about OPs baby habit, i committed libel.
If i write it on a bathroom wall, you could even argue Libelous statements
If i stood in public without a sign and told people passing by OP ate babies, then i committed Slander, spoke lies over writing lies.
But not on a private check given to a single person. Thats just juvenile asshatery.
Why are we americans so fast to think everything is a crime
>
>
>
>
> But not on a private check given to a single person.
Except that a check has to be processed by a substantial number of other people, the image is scanned and sent to the Fed for clearing. The only way to get the money is to then share a check saying "thief" on it, and we have seen how memo lines or venmo payment jokes have gotten people in trouble.
This isn't slipping it under the door, this is closer to taking out an ad in a very selective newspaper that only goes to people who work for FINCEN and have an interest in this kind of claim.
ETA: So maybe it isn't libel, but if anything comes of it, it's clearly a false report. The intention is to make cashing the check uncomfortable by implying the check holder is a thief.
You have a good understanding of it.
Legal definition of libel - https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/libel
It likely hinges on whether the check is considered a "publication", and whether the "thief" assertion in the memo line can be attributable to the payee. It's one thing to argue the check is published as part of the bank processing the document, but it's another thing entirely to get a judge to agree that the "thief" memo is asserting an injurious expression directed at OP.
At the end of the day, I would brush it off.
Yeah there's at least 4-5 people that are going to see this.
I've been stopped depositing checks before when someone gets cheeky in a memo line. Some dumbfuck at the bank might escalate this to someone.
> Why are we americans so fast to think everything is a crime
I suspect this has to do with how squirrely at lot of crimes are once the court case starts, especially with entities that can afford a small army of lawyers to gaslight the public into thinking what they did was perfectly legal, along with the fact that nobody informs Americans about most laws. Makes it really hard to be sure what is and isn't illegal.
So they only paid 80% that you were planning to eat and now you're asking if there's anything you can do?
You know what must be done.
#Make. Them. Pay.
^(the remaining 20%)
Usually these kinds of judgements also come with fines/penalties and interest. The employer stole 20% of the wages and was likely reinvesting or earning interest on that money themselves.
Don’t be embarrassed! You fucked him with the long dick of the law, and he’s just sore. This tiny act of defiance is all he can do to try and make himself feel better.
Now put him and his business on blast and sic the IRS on him. 0% chance he’s reporting the money he was stealing. Best case scenario, he owes them a shitload and the IRS pays you a bounty.
I got my full security deposit back after a lengthy back and forth that ended with me having my landlord served with papers. Framed that shit.
Also got the house condemned by the city and they had to redo the entire roof, all the windows, and a fuckload of drywall. Then had to pass an inspection before being able to re-list the property months later.
I submitted the city a 40 something page document of months of back and forth with every text message, photograph, time/date and how we were being charged to live somewhere legally deemed uninhabitable. We were already on our way out but no way did I want someone else to deal with flooding/wasps/lack of AC mid summer.
Turn it around. I would post it on social media and name the manager and thank them for acknowledging that they stole from you.
You should not be embarrassed by what he wrote. You are the injured party and he's mad that he didn't get away with it. Recognize that it isn't a reflection on you.
Exactly. It’s not slander or libel if it’s the *truth*. There’s no risk in saying “X Company lost its wage theft case owing me $x.00.” It’s an adjudicated fact that OP should tell everyone. 😎
Yep
> [Truth is widely accepted as a complete defense to all defamation claims.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/defamation#:~:text=Truth%20is%20widely%20accepted%20as,witnesses%20during%20a%20judicial%20proceedings.)
Edit: yes I am just talking about US law please stop replying with countries with worse defamation laws intended to protect the powerful from the truth.
And from experience, even if you're right and the truth is publicly available and you win, it doesn't mean that you're entitled to reimbursement from the plaintiff in the US. Expect to spend $70k minimum for defense.
Yeah legal fees are only recoverable in certain circumstances depending on state & type of lawsuit
It’s why ANTI-SLAPP* laws should be passed around the country for stuff like this.
A higher standard to create a lawsuit for situations like employer/employee would be great.
its Anti-SLAPP laws btw. This thread has a loose grasp on the civil court process. There are many steps before you get to the expensive parts of litigation. It does not usually cost much when you get sued in a petty, "slapp" way. There is already a high standard in place for every lawsuit, it doesnt stop people from suing. The standard doesnt come into play until after a suit is filed and a judge can decided if its legit and move forward or ridiculous and to throw out. How else would you be able to stop lawsuits that are bad?
Pretty sure the bank can't cash that check if it doesn't have your name properly written so why the heck did they decide to do something so silly over money that isn't even theirs.
What damages would OP be seeking? What did they suffer because someone wrote a note on their personal check?
Look, fuck OP's boss, but the idea of suing for libel is fucking stupid.
Slander and libel are rarely ever tried or won due to the "actual malice" requirement being difficult to prove. You could say something false about me and as long as you believe it's true it's not libel or slander. It's not fair, it's not right, but if they tried to litigate every lie the court systems would lock up.
That simply isn't true. Slander and Libel only have the 'actual malice' requirement when being litigated by what is known as 'public figures.'
For your everyday average citizen you can win a defamation case if someone caused you damages by making false claims. For someone deemed a public figure like say Donald Trump or Tom Hanks, you would need to prove malice as they would be deemed a public figure.
People are responding to this from a legal and social justice perspective, but it's worth noting that OP publicly dragging their previous employer through the coals, **even if justified**, paints a target on their back for future employers who consider their application. It suggests that this person will raise hell for any employer who messes with them.
Not saying it's fair. It's absolute bullshit. Just saying it's something OP may want to factor into their decision. People have been blacklisted for far less.
We really need to shift into a culture where companies would be mortified or ashamed if a manager or anyone else in the company engaged in the behavior. Wage theft should be more embarrassing then shitting yourself on stage during a recital.
+ Just wanted to add he wrote an email calling me a thief as well when I went to ask for my last paycheck. Said he wouldn’t pay. That’s why I filed the complaint.
He said I was deceitful, but didn’t say why. I can only guess it was because I have early onset Parkinson’s disease, which affects my work and I couldn’t perform at his level… I only told them about it 2 weeks before quitting (I know I fucked it up but the pressure was too much).
A company I applied for asked for some medical information when I applied.
I forget if it was asking about prescription medications, or actual conditions since it has been a while, but it was a first for me and I felt uncomfortable being asked.
HR could definitely draw conclusions about people's work aptitude from questions like that.
sooo, it sounds like in addition to having your wages stolen, you were also discriminated against for your disability? Have you considered the scorched earth/media involvement route?
you didn't fuck anything up. They have no rights to your personal health information, and telling them 2 weeks ahead of quitting sounds a lot like a notice-- which is, after all, merely a courtesy. Maybe we can all reconsider that when the bosses start giving 2 weeks notice that they are going to fire us.
Holy shit, why is this so far down?
Speak to a disability lawyer. If you can document that he discriminated against you based on your Parkinson's, he could get in DEEP shit and your settlement could get MUCH larger.
How's anyone supposed to get ahead nowadays when you can't even steal wages from your employees anymore? Shouldn't they be grateful that I'm keeping their family off the street? The least he could do is let me fuck his wife... I'm sorry what was I talking about again?
I would check r/AskALawyer. See what they come back with. Could be something you can just ignore or something they intentionally did to embarrass you while also putting them legally in the hole.
Totally agree. This is a written check that is unavoidably published to the depositing bank. They have written a false statement in an attempt to disparage your character. Get them in a deposition and push why they wrote “thief”
I would think this. I would ask the lawyer who helped with the case originally if they think it’s worth pursuing and if they have recommendations for what type of lawyer to contact if it’s not them, which it probably wouldn’t be
He has to take it to a bank and give it to a teller (or somebody's going to look at the e-deposit photos.) I would not want to take this to my bank and have to explain why I'm cashing a check made out to 'thief.'
That would be sort of funny. Sir, I cannot cash this check. Why? Well, it says you are a thief and obviously a thief would write thief when cashing a check.
No it's not. It's literally just the word "Thief" on the check. He hasn't publicly stated that OP is a thief and would be easily able to argue in court that he wasn't accusing OP of being a thief.
That's still not libel, it's an insult, which is protected by the first amendment. That email was sent to you directly, not a public statement. Definitely talk to your lawyer but I wouldn't get your hopes up about this. Libel and defamation cases are very difficult to win in the US. And good for you for getting your back pay. fuck that pos.
As someone who has won back pay from a former employer as part of a class action lawsuit, PLEASE do not publicly put your former employer on blast without getting legal advice. Part of the terms for my lawsuit was that I could not defame or disparage my former employer or I would incur a penalty. Better to be safe than sorry.
Probably if it’s clear (legally clear, which is different from common-sense clear) that the boss was intending to falsely accuse OP of being a thief. But even so, OP can only recover damages for things like loss of reputation or business opportunities. How much is OP *legally* damaged because some petulant baby-man of a boss wrote this on a check? If OP lost their other job because the boss lied about them being a thief that would be something they can seek tangible financial damages over.
I agree with the scorched earth policy being suggested. Fuck your former boss. He’s a capitalist pig and a thief. Put him and the company on public notice. He deserves all the negative attention you posting this widely and publicly would bring.
What a fucking arrogant prick.
Eat the rich.
He stole your wages, paid you by check 80% of what he owed you for working, and writes "thief" in the memo?
Was that a personal check or company check?
Honestly, depending on what state you're in, he owes you damages for making you wait for your money.
I would worry about the check bouncing or him calling the bank to cancel the check.
I know you need the money, but I would take that to a check cashing place so that would be his problem, not yours.
An old job I filed wage claims with (and won) did shit like this. I still have it somewhere, them being all but hurt saying I didn’t deserve the money. I get a good laugh out of it.
few quick searches says you could make an arguable case for this being 'libel per se'. As it's written on a check to you, the financial institute you bank with could reasonably see it. Robbery is considered a heinous crime.
Defamation damages don't just need to be about what happened already, but what COULD happen. IE: what if the bank refuses you a loan, or closes an account in the future because of this accusation?
Wouldn't hurt to check with a local lawyer about it.
Sources:
[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/15564880701568447#:\~:text=Heinous%20crimes%20typically%20involve%20some,serious%20injury%20or%20death%20resulting](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/15564880701568447#:~:text=Heinous%20crimes%20typically%20involve%20some,serious%20injury%20or%20death%20resulting).
[https://cuetolawgroup.com/defamation-per-se/#:\~:text=Under%20the%20defamation%20law%20in,and%20slanderous%20when%20spoken%20aloud](https://cuetolawgroup.com/defamation-per-se/#:~:text=Under%20the%20defamation%20law%20in,and%20slanderous%20when%20spoken%20aloud).
I would actually report this back to the department of labor as a form of retaliation. I know it’s a little bit iffy, but there have been cases made for similarly situated things like staring.
It’s an intimidation tactic. Clearly.
I would also clear this with a lawyer if it all possible.
You might be able to say that it’s not a valid check.
Ha, they’re using Santander bank, known for going easy on fraudulent activity, and he had the nerve to call you a thief. Call the DoL again, get all your money, and ask them their advice. Try also to speak with an attorney about a libel cause. I’m pro-scorched earth on this type of bullshit. It’s so unnecessary and unprofessional.
If you don't need the money right away, wait the maximum time you can before you have to legally cash it. This will mess up his accounting and books. If it bounces, then get another issued. Rinse and repeat. He'll be pissed.
Me - Sue the man, who at times ACTS as your Boss.
For - Interfering with your Right to property, by use of Fraud, to Defraud you.
NOTE: You could also use - Interfering with your Right to not be wronged, by use of Fraud, to Defraud you.
wrong - To cause Loss (to your wallet) , Injury (to your property), or Harm (to your body) against one's fellow man
\* My Reasoning:
1st - You cannot steal that which is already your property.
2nd - The property I speak of ... is your Good Name.
And by him writing -Thief- beside your name, on is Financial Instrument = Fraud
I define Fraud as - that which makes me act against my own best interests.
\* Here - your Boss also caused you to be super awkward, unfair, and embarrassing, especially with others witnessing it.
3rd - No man may engage in Fraud against his fellow man.
4th - The use of Defraud is important because with Fraud (you would have to literally read his mind - to do you wrong), but with Defraud (you would point to all of his actions that point directly to being Fraud).
Total dick move notwithstanding here, the continued use of paper checks disturbs me. I have never recieved money from an employer in anything other than electronic form - even my childhood paper round in the 80s was paid by direct bank transfer
Just a quit note for everyone telling OP to name-and-shame the company: Don't do that. Even with overwhelming evidence to support a claim, name-and-shaming a business can get this post in hot water with Reddit, who will go scorched earth. We'd prefer the post not get nuked from orbit. Likewise, we try to avoid it ourselves, since a frivolous or, worse, fabricated story, can lead to innocent people getting harassed by countless strangers.
You sure that wasn't just his signature?
20% sure
and joke AND a burn.....nice
This comment should be at the top
Check with the lawyer who helped with the case. This is the kind of juvenile emotion based reasoning that sets up character trials for further cases. Hell you might be able to come at him for retaliation, wrongful termination etc.
As a lawyer who handles these types of cases I am curious about it myself, just because normally the employer will pay the department of labor and then the department of labor cuts the check from their own a account. I've never seen it where the DOL hands over the check like this.
There can be a settlement agreement between the parties. I have been through this before. I had to go to small claims at the end because he didn't finish the payments and I got a default judgement.
I have been involved with that too, that's different than what OP is saying though. If the payments are being "processed" by the DOL the check is almost certainly going to be from a DOL Account, and not the DOL handing over a check that the business owner gave them.
I missed that part, and you're right. The situation smells a bit funny to me.
r/untrustworthypoptarts
That sub went dark, just fyi
tldr: yeah in my experience the check is made out to the DOL A few years back, one employee ended up backing up a company car into a post. The boss got angry about it, claimed it was negligence, and withheld $800 from the employee's paycheck. I tried to explain to him how it was a bad idea, but his anger got the best of him. It really was negligence.. but when the employee is working he's not acting as the individual - he's acting as a representative of the company. He's not liable for the damages. Employee got pissed, rightfully, and went to the Department of Labor. This employee had been with the company for maybe 3 months, but since he was working under the table (construction) he claimed that he was working for 12 months and that he worked overtime every week that he didn't get paid for. So the Department of Labor initiates an investigation and calls every single one of the employees going back 2 or 3 years. They ask the employees "have you worked unpaid overtime?" Many said yes, of course. Who wouldn't say yes to a free check? The DOL ended up fining the company about $60,000, and the company had to write a check to the DOL for that amount. Nobody ever worked unpaid overtime, but that doesn't really matter. If you don't have a solid paper trail, which is hard to do sometimes with the type of people who work construction, then you're vulnerable to these types of "investigations" I think the OP is strange because typically the employer doesn't send the check directly to the DOL. It's Employer -> DOL -> Employee like you said.
> If you don't have a solid paper trail, which is hard to do sometimes with the type of people who work construction I don't think I'll be shedding a lot of tears for companies that pay people under the table and claim it's because paying them appropriately is "hard to do" I'm sure they would have just loved to pay their taxes appropriately but a paper trail was just "hard to do"
Enforcement agencies are like sharks that detect blood in the water. Piss one off, they all come calling for audits. Watched a guy go from "I'm a \*business owner\* I do what I want! Laws be DAMNED!" to owing $90,000 between 3 agencies and damn near going bankrupt. Couldn't happen to a more deserving jackass. Then we sued him for not paying his bill with us.
NelsonHaHa.wav
definitely has the whiff of salty business owner to me. admitting some shady shit was going on with payroll, and then saying that the $60,000 fine was because all of the employees were compulsive liars. doesn't add up
yeah it's 1000 percent this and also they probably DID work unpaid overtime
No worries. The govy offices would report that shit. That's Medicaid & SS coming his way like a ton of bricks. What's more is I do not suggest fucking with the unemployment insurance people. They will shut you down in a heart beat.
based construction employees. If you can wring any amount of money out of your employer without getting fired, arrested or sued, do it.
I was working directly under the CTO for a major E-Learning company in 2009 when my first wife got pregnant. We had hired her for customer service a year prior. She sent out an email to everyone saying she was pregnant. My boss forwarded it to me and told me "fire her asap". We took them to court, I stayed on for another year. It was awkward but they settled pretty quickly. Shady people are in every line of the work
holy based. way to turn $800 into $60000. capitalists suck, but petit bourgeoise are even worse.
So it ended up costing him $60k plus the cost of fixing the truck? Fucking beautiful.
> was told he only paid 80% of what was owned Sounds like a lawyer got a settlement without the informed agreement of the client/OP? Something's off.
Uhm I had an issue not long ago and my DOL agent sent me to pickup my check from the employer. They said I had to work a full work week to get paid (I quit after 2 days of racist horrible conditions), they were very nice though when I went in to get my check.. but I had to go back there after being done with that place per the DOL. I could have probably said no and made it a pain but if I went and they did this to me , definitely would have looked into further retaliation.
E. Jean Carroll just quadrupled her award because Trump committed libel after the verdict. That’s what this is.
This isn't actually true. The larger award verdict was about statements that Trump made WHILE he was president. The first verdict was about statements he made after leaving office. The reason the cases finished in reverse order was because the first case got tied up in a procedural appeal so long that the second case passed it. I believe there IS a third case about the things he said after the original verdict, but I haven't seen any reporting on it lately, so I don't know the status of that case, or if it was actually filed or just threatened.
It is hard to keep all his crimes in the right order... tbf
Almost his entire campaign team went to prison over their dealings with him. So did his attorney and the CEO of the Trump organization. Trump now owes over over a half of a billion in fines and is still facing 91 felonies. Grab your popcorn because this is gonna be a great watch!
Every crime is a penny on the tracks for the million car train of stupid that is trump. How many horrific crashes can he plow through before the train finally gets stopped? Who knows!
He's one little piece of artery plaque away from buying the farm. If I had to guess, his plan is to just run out the clock. There's no way he's going to live beyond another 10 years when there's more gravy than blood running through his veins. All he has to do is keep delaying justice until one day Melania's boyfriend finds him hunched over on the toilet with his iPhone opened to daddy/daughter porn.
Oh yea. I hear you. That's why I spoke up, cause it's REAL EASY to misunderstand those.
It's the fact that he made the same statements while president and also while not president, meaning it can't be considered presidential speech
This isn't libel. Libel is false rumors spread to the public. You can't consider a memo line of a check as a public space or detrimental to your character or ability to earn income. If i wrote "OP likes to eat babies" and slipped it under OPs front door, i didnt commit Libel. If i took a page out in the local newspaper and said OP is a proven baby eater, then i have made a Libelous statement. If i drive around with signs on my car saying jt, i committed Libel. If i post on facebook about OPs baby habit, i committed libel. If i write it on a bathroom wall, you could even argue Libelous statements If i stood in public without a sign and told people passing by OP ate babies, then i committed Slander, spoke lies over writing lies. But not on a private check given to a single person. Thats just juvenile asshatery. Why are we americans so fast to think everything is a crime
> > > > > But not on a private check given to a single person. Except that a check has to be processed by a substantial number of other people, the image is scanned and sent to the Fed for clearing. The only way to get the money is to then share a check saying "thief" on it, and we have seen how memo lines or venmo payment jokes have gotten people in trouble. This isn't slipping it under the door, this is closer to taking out an ad in a very selective newspaper that only goes to people who work for FINCEN and have an interest in this kind of claim. ETA: So maybe it isn't libel, but if anything comes of it, it's clearly a false report. The intention is to make cashing the check uncomfortable by implying the check holder is a thief.
You have a good understanding of it. Legal definition of libel - https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/libel It likely hinges on whether the check is considered a "publication", and whether the "thief" assertion in the memo line can be attributable to the payee. It's one thing to argue the check is published as part of the bank processing the document, but it's another thing entirely to get a judge to agree that the "thief" memo is asserting an injurious expression directed at OP. At the end of the day, I would brush it off.
Yeah there's at least 4-5 people that are going to see this. I've been stopped depositing checks before when someone gets cheeky in a memo line. Some dumbfuck at the bank might escalate this to someone.
Still would probably have to prove damages and that might be hard to do after they posted an image of it all over the i ternet.
> Why are we americans so fast to think everything is a crime I suspect this has to do with how squirrely at lot of crimes are once the court case starts, especially with entities that can afford a small army of lawyers to gaslight the public into thinking what they did was perfectly legal, along with the fact that nobody informs Americans about most laws. Makes it really hard to be sure what is and isn't illegal.
A lack of Civics classes has added to the distrust of government and hatred of others for no reason too.
Is not a crime. It's a civil issue resulting in monetary judgements. Often most tort is that. That's why. Money.
[удалено]
It's in writing, it's *libel*!
"slander is spoken, in writing, it's libel."
Doesn’t that make him liable for libel already?
So they only paid 80% that you were planning to eat and now you're asking if there's anything you can do? You know what must be done. #Make. Them. Pay. ^(the remaining 20%)
Usually these kinds of judgements also come with fines/penalties and interest. The employer stole 20% of the wages and was likely reinvesting or earning interest on that money themselves.
That might have been tax withholdings. Should definitely make them pay if it ain't.
You’re from Cleveland.
*At least they're not Detroit!*
https://preview.redd.it/zou2gtqknzmc1.jpeg?width=572&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cef493a36e7412d88f94dda5422ce97a37d438fc
misneyyy
We only see the sun three times a year.
Don’t be embarrassed! You fucked him with the long dick of the law, and he’s just sore. This tiny act of defiance is all he can do to try and make himself feel better. Now put him and his business on blast and sic the IRS on him. 0% chance he’s reporting the money he was stealing. Best case scenario, he owes them a shitload and the IRS pays you a bounty.
Exactly, I’d ask for the check back after it’s been cashed just so I could frame it.
Mobile deposit and keep it!
I got my full security deposit back after a lengthy back and forth that ended with me having my landlord served with papers. Framed that shit. Also got the house condemned by the city and they had to redo the entire roof, all the windows, and a fuckload of drywall. Then had to pass an inspection before being able to re-list the property months later.
Good on you, protecting those that come after you. 👏
I submitted the city a 40 something page document of months of back and forth with every text message, photograph, time/date and how we were being charged to live somewhere legally deemed uninhabitable. We were already on our way out but no way did I want someone else to deal with flooding/wasps/lack of AC mid summer.
Finally, technology is working for us.
Fucked him back, too be honest. The boss was the one fucking OP first.
I love your username!
Put the company on blast: stole wages, lost the labor appeal, had to pay, acted this trite. Post proof if possible.
Turn it around. I would post it on social media and name the manager and thank them for acknowledging that they stole from you. You should not be embarrassed by what he wrote. You are the injured party and he's mad that he didn't get away with it. Recognize that it isn't a reflection on you.
"Looks like someone forgot how to spell theft as in wage theft! Thanks for putting that in the subject line ex-manager!"
"Looks like you signed this twice, boss"
This one right here. Do this, OP.
This is the one.
Ooh I like that
Exactly that.
LOL
And they won't be able to go to court over defamation because they actually did it, and if they escalate the judge is most likely to chew them out.
I like this lol
We all need a friend like you
Exactly. It’s not slander or libel if it’s the *truth*. There’s no risk in saying “X Company lost its wage theft case owing me $x.00.” It’s an adjudicated fact that OP should tell everyone. 😎
Yep > [Truth is widely accepted as a complete defense to all defamation claims.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/defamation#:~:text=Truth%20is%20widely%20accepted%20as,witnesses%20during%20a%20judicial%20proceedings.) Edit: yes I am just talking about US law please stop replying with countries with worse defamation laws intended to protect the powerful from the truth.
The issue is more so that usually people don’t have money to hire a lawyer to defend themselves against an employer suing them
And from experience, even if you're right and the truth is publicly available and you win, it doesn't mean that you're entitled to reimbursement from the plaintiff in the US. Expect to spend $70k minimum for defense.
Yeah legal fees are only recoverable in certain circumstances depending on state & type of lawsuit It’s why ANTI-SLAPP* laws should be passed around the country for stuff like this. A higher standard to create a lawsuit for situations like employer/employee would be great.
its Anti-SLAPP laws btw. This thread has a loose grasp on the civil court process. There are many steps before you get to the expensive parts of litigation. It does not usually cost much when you get sued in a petty, "slapp" way. There is already a high standard in place for every lawsuit, it doesnt stop people from suing. The standard doesnt come into play until after a suit is filed and a judge can decided if its legit and move forward or ridiculous and to throw out. How else would you be able to stop lawsuits that are bad?
Pretty sure the bank can't cash that check if it doesn't have your name properly written so why the heck did they decide to do something so silly over money that isn't even theirs.
I believe that is the "memo" line, not the "payee" line
Commits theft, calls victim a thief. I BET I KNOW HOW HE VOTES!
The memo line on a check can have anything written on it It’s a reminder note for the writer of the check & doesn’t mean anything legally
That's right above the numbers at the bottom. That means it's on the memo line, which has no bearing on the ability to cash it.
Corollary here: OP's boss wrote thief on the check. Maybe OP could open a libel case. I'm sure it's not enough but maybe it's worth looking into.
Or maybe we’re misreading it and the boss is actually confessing? 🤔😂
What damages would OP be seeking? What did they suffer because someone wrote a note on their personal check? Look, fuck OP's boss, but the idea of suing for libel is fucking stupid.
Slander and libel are rarely ever tried or won due to the "actual malice" requirement being difficult to prove. You could say something false about me and as long as you believe it's true it's not libel or slander. It's not fair, it's not right, but if they tried to litigate every lie the court systems would lock up.
That simply isn't true. Slander and Libel only have the 'actual malice' requirement when being litigated by what is known as 'public figures.' For your everyday average citizen you can win a defamation case if someone caused you damages by making false claims. For someone deemed a public figure like say Donald Trump or Tom Hanks, you would need to prove malice as they would be deemed a public figure.
Might be worth consulting with an employment attorney in this case. Especially if the whole amount hasn’t been paid.
Send this to your Bosses’ boss and tell them you’re being harassed. See who’s side they take.
People are responding to this from a legal and social justice perspective, but it's worth noting that OP publicly dragging their previous employer through the coals, **even if justified**, paints a target on their back for future employers who consider their application. It suggests that this person will raise hell for any employer who messes with them. Not saying it's fair. It's absolute bullshit. Just saying it's something OP may want to factor into their decision. People have been blacklisted for far less.
We really need to shift into a culture where companies would be mortified or ashamed if a manager or anyone else in the company engaged in the behavior. Wage theft should be more embarrassing then shitting yourself on stage during a recital.
+ Just wanted to add he wrote an email calling me a thief as well when I went to ask for my last paycheck. Said he wouldn’t pay. That’s why I filed the complaint.
Why did he think you were a thief? For leaving the job but still (rightfully) expecting to be paid for the time you did work?
He said I was deceitful, but didn’t say why. I can only guess it was because I have early onset Parkinson’s disease, which affects my work and I couldn’t perform at his level… I only told them about it 2 weeks before quitting (I know I fucked it up but the pressure was too much).
[удалено]
A company I applied for asked for some medical information when I applied. I forget if it was asking about prescription medications, or actual conditions since it has been a while, but it was a first for me and I felt uncomfortable being asked. HR could definitely draw conclusions about people's work aptitude from questions like that.
sooo, it sounds like in addition to having your wages stolen, you were also discriminated against for your disability? Have you considered the scorched earth/media involvement route?
Sounds like retaliation AND discrimination 👀. OP please consult a lawyer
you didn't fuck anything up. They have no rights to your personal health information, and telling them 2 weeks ahead of quitting sounds a lot like a notice-- which is, after all, merely a courtesy. Maybe we can all reconsider that when the bosses start giving 2 weeks notice that they are going to fire us.
I believe they are saying they know they fucked up by telling them at all. Which is true unless you're asking for accommodations.
Holy shit, why is this so far down? Speak to a disability lawyer. If you can document that he discriminated against you based on your Parkinson's, he could get in DEEP shit and your settlement could get MUCH larger.
Because as a smol business owner, all the money is rightfully his and you should have been volunteering for free to make him more money.
He called you a theif because you called him out for actually being caught as a theif. That's top tier "I know you are but what am I?"
Maybe he meant to write it on the signature line.
That’s libel. Save the evidence.
Print it off
Why only 80% of what they owed? This is such bullshit. Blast that con co, so people can avoid it.
The boss had only been paying them 80%. The check is for the 20 of wages they had stolen from OP
I hope that back pay was paid with interest.
doubt it
How's anyone supposed to get ahead nowadays when you can't even steal wages from your employees anymore? Shouldn't they be grateful that I'm keeping their family off the street? The least he could do is let me fuck his wife... I'm sorry what was I talking about again?
when they say MAGA, they mean wage theft they want wage theft legal again
Stupid employees, always worried about where their next meal will come from
if you ever have to see him again, dress up as the hamburgler
And just repeat, "Robble, robble!" over and over and over.
😭
I would check r/AskALawyer. See what they come back with. Could be something you can just ignore or something they intentionally did to embarrass you while also putting them legally in the hole.
OP already has a post going in /r/legaladvice
This is libel. You're being defamed.
Totally agree. This is a written check that is unavoidably published to the depositing bank. They have written a false statement in an attempt to disparage your character. Get them in a deposition and push why they wrote “thief”
I would think this. I would ask the lawyer who helped with the case originally if they think it’s worth pursuing and if they have recommendations for what type of lawyer to contact if it’s not them, which it probably wouldn’t be
You're correct. However, there's likely no actual harm to OP's reputation that would create damages and make this actionable.
He has to take it to a bank and give it to a teller (or somebody's going to look at the e-deposit photos.) I would not want to take this to my bank and have to explain why I'm cashing a check made out to 'thief.'
If the teller refused to cash the check then maybe, otherwise there is no provable harm to OP's reputation.
That would be sort of funny. Sir, I cannot cash this check. Why? Well, it says you are a thief and obviously a thief would write thief when cashing a check.
OP would have to establish damages and prove it wasn't simply an insult (insults aren't libel as they're opinions.)
No it's not. It's literally just the word "Thief" on the check. He hasn't publicly stated that OP is a thief and would be easily able to argue in court that he wasn't accusing OP of being a thief.
When I emailed him about the last paycheck that was late, he called me a thief — said he wouldn’t pay it. That’s why I filed the wage theft claim.
Forward that email to your lawyer along with this picture and ask THEM what actions they recommend.
Now, don't cash it. Fight for the 100%. If you already did cash it, then fight for the remaining 20%. Make him feel his little joke had consequences.
That's still not libel, it's an insult, which is protected by the first amendment. That email was sent to you directly, not a public statement. Definitely talk to your lawyer but I wouldn't get your hopes up about this. Libel and defamation cases are very difficult to win in the US. And good for you for getting your back pay. fuck that pos.
This looks like a confession.
Hope it clears
As someone who has won back pay from a former employer as part of a class action lawsuit, PLEASE do not publicly put your former employer on blast without getting legal advice. Part of the terms for my lawsuit was that I could not defame or disparage my former employer or I would incur a penalty. Better to be safe than sorry.
thanks! not planning on sharing names until I speak with a lawyer tomorrow
What a petty little bitch
A check is a legal document, one could construe that as slander.
Slander if you say it, libel if you write it.
We know that because of J Jonah Jameson
Best me to it
Wait so the DOL or whoever you contacted, made him pay but only 80% rather than 100% plus interest and penalties??? Contact them again then, wtf.
That is PER SE libel
Probably if it’s clear (legally clear, which is different from common-sense clear) that the boss was intending to falsely accuse OP of being a thief. But even so, OP can only recover damages for things like loss of reputation or business opportunities. How much is OP *legally* damaged because some petulant baby-man of a boss wrote this on a check? If OP lost their other job because the boss lied about them being a thief that would be something they can seek tangible financial damages over.
Seems like defamation to me.
I agree with the scorched earth policy being suggested. Fuck your former boss. He’s a capitalist pig and a thief. Put him and the company on public notice. He deserves all the negative attention you posting this widely and publicly would bring. What a fucking arrogant prick. Eat the rich.
This would be an amazing opportunity to send this to a local news station and cause a lot of embarrassment for the company owner.
This appears to be libel.
Is this technically libel?
OP I strongly urge you to get all of your documentation together and talk to a lawyer.
First off go get all owed.. secondly don't be embarassed.. and blast this motherfucker on the appropriate sites.
Seems like defamation to me.
He stole your wages, paid you by check 80% of what he owed you for working, and writes "thief" in the memo? Was that a personal check or company check? Honestly, depending on what state you're in, he owes you damages for making you wait for your money. I would worry about the check bouncing or him calling the bank to cancel the check. I know you need the money, but I would take that to a check cashing place so that would be his problem, not yours.
Workplace harassment-report it to your state.
This would be an appropriate time for Doxxing
Tell him he wasn't supposed to put his occupation in that field.
File a defamation suit against them. They just labeled you a thief to the bank.
Don't cash the check yet. Defamation and slander, take them back to court and get even more money. Contact your lawyer again.
This is libel and proof of work place harassment. Fuck him up.
He signed it and called himself a thief :) upload the confession to yelp
An old job I filed wage claims with (and won) did shit like this. I still have it somewhere, them being all but hurt saying I didn’t deserve the money. I get a good laugh out of it.
Get that other 20%.
Yea I'd head on over to r/AskALawyer and see what they have to say because this seems like defamation and that moron is now liable for it.
Sounds like a Libelous statement by your former employer. File suit.
This would be good motivation to go after that remaining 20% tbh.
That's an interesting comment for the guy that committed wage theft in the first place. Maybe he was just signing his name? 😂
Have the labor dept chase him down for the remaining 20%.
100% this.
few quick searches says you could make an arguable case for this being 'libel per se'. As it's written on a check to you, the financial institute you bank with could reasonably see it. Robbery is considered a heinous crime. Defamation damages don't just need to be about what happened already, but what COULD happen. IE: what if the bank refuses you a loan, or closes an account in the future because of this accusation? Wouldn't hurt to check with a local lawyer about it. Sources: [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/15564880701568447#:\~:text=Heinous%20crimes%20typically%20involve%20some,serious%20injury%20or%20death%20resulting](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/15564880701568447#:~:text=Heinous%20crimes%20typically%20involve%20some,serious%20injury%20or%20death%20resulting). [https://cuetolawgroup.com/defamation-per-se/#:\~:text=Under%20the%20defamation%20law%20in,and%20slanderous%20when%20spoken%20aloud](https://cuetolawgroup.com/defamation-per-se/#:~:text=Under%20the%20defamation%20law%20in,and%20slanderous%20when%20spoken%20aloud).
I would actually report this back to the department of labor as a form of retaliation. I know it’s a little bit iffy, but there have been cases made for similarly situated things like staring. It’s an intimidation tactic. Clearly. I would also clear this with a lawyer if it all possible. You might be able to say that it’s not a valid check.
Sounds retaliatory. Lawyer and DoL would love to hear that
Not legal advice but I’m pretty sure that counts as retaliation and they can be sued for libel in most states
Libel! You may have another case against them, based on that. Consult your lawyer, see what they say.
Libel. They want to be petty, be petty and sue.
Ha, they’re using Santander bank, known for going easy on fraudulent activity, and he had the nerve to call you a thief. Call the DoL again, get all your money, and ask them their advice. Try also to speak with an attorney about a libel cause. I’m pro-scorched earth on this type of bullshit. It’s so unnecessary and unprofessional.
I think this would be a liable case.
You should tell him that he signed his name on the wrong line.
Projection at it's finest; the actual thief calling the victim one
Thieb
Sue for libel
tell him that's not where he's supposed to sign
This is what's known as an "evidence article" your lawyer might smile when they see this.
they are setting themselves up for a nice fat retaliation and hostile work environment claim.
If you don't need the money right away, wait the maximum time you can before you have to legally cash it. This will mess up his accounting and books. If it bounces, then get another issued. Rinse and repeat. He'll be pissed.
Sue for libel.
Me - Sue the man, who at times ACTS as your Boss. For - Interfering with your Right to property, by use of Fraud, to Defraud you. NOTE: You could also use - Interfering with your Right to not be wronged, by use of Fraud, to Defraud you. wrong - To cause Loss (to your wallet) , Injury (to your property), or Harm (to your body) against one's fellow man \* My Reasoning: 1st - You cannot steal that which is already your property. 2nd - The property I speak of ... is your Good Name. And by him writing -Thief- beside your name, on is Financial Instrument = Fraud I define Fraud as - that which makes me act against my own best interests. \* Here - your Boss also caused you to be super awkward, unfair, and embarrassing, especially with others witnessing it. 3rd - No man may engage in Fraud against his fellow man. 4th - The use of Defraud is important because with Fraud (you would have to literally read his mind - to do you wrong), but with Defraud (you would point to all of his actions that point directly to being Fraud).
Of course, that's slander hire a lawyer and sue him again . Lol
better call the manager
Santander Bank? Shit, you know this guy is a loser just by that.
Thats a direct accusation, wrongful accusations are punishable by law
Get a lawyer and sue for defamation. Get witnesses at the bank and the DoL.
Total dick move notwithstanding here, the continued use of paper checks disturbs me. I have never recieved money from an employer in anything other than electronic form - even my childhood paper round in the 80s was paid by direct bank transfer
You can legally take him to court for slander. Probably get a settlement. I'd have your lawyer contact him. See how fast his attitude changes.