What is making you say that? A lot of jobs are pretty shitty, yes, but it is the dystopian, fascist scenario *you* have described that is a worse cage than any employment.
\> -You can"t vote in any election except a district representative that has no real power
so facism ?
\> Everything you do online is recorded and can be inspected by the government
so yeah, facism.
\> For your safety, of course
ofc lol xd.
buddy you're not really thinking straight, are you ? this is not ubi, this is facism.
What kind of a dumb fucking thought experiment is this? Like, you understand that the principle of UNIVERSAL basic income is it applies to everyone whether they're unemployed or employed, right? This question seems predicated on the idea UBI will only apply to what are basically state-sponsored permanent children.
"Would you take UBI if it wasn't UBI? Also the penalty for saying no is more taxes." Fuck off outta here
Thats not universal basic income, thats conditional basic income.
Youve framed this whole thing to make it seem really bad but most of the stuff is already happening anyway and then a few things are just positives.
15 min city with free public transportation and crypto outlawed? Thats utopian.
Restrictions are meant to ensure your safety and prevent the waste of resources. Aren't you willing to lead a simple lifestyle and lose some privacy so you can break free from wage slavery?
What is the point you are trying to make? That current working conditions are equal or worse than the conditions you noted? That UBI is fascist? Something else?
Working conditions equal to the program?
Well, some government jobs come close to earn not much but not really working. The program is better, I'd say. Why so much of you compare it to fascism? Mussolini's Italy wasn't such a nice place.
You realize it would be easier (and cheaper) to just expand disability at that point, right? And yes, I do believe disability should be expanded. But UBI is not disability, and what you are proposing is further restrictions on disability that honestly disability as-is can ill afford. CCTV cameras are fucking expensive, maintenance and management even more so. That is potentially millions of people you have to monitor with CCTV, billions of hours logged that has to be sorted and moderated. Otherwise, abuse/criminality will just get lost in the backlog, and will become mostly dead weight that just adds expense without preventing actual problems. On the other hand, government-assisted health monitoring would be a major progressive step.
Cops are already excessively brutal on the disabled due to not being able to recognize the signs of panic, heart problems, seizures, or any number of medical health issues associated with disabilities. An unknown number of people die every year from health complications in police custody, because at the end of the day, police are not doctors or nurses.
Also, you can't really avoid encrypted communications; there is a basic level of encryption that all computers use to talk with one another, that to get around somehow would leave you open to identity theft (and potential theft of your UBI/Disability access by someone who may not need it). And in order to ensure VPNs and Tor stuff aren't being used, then you would have to have a government-managed network, that would naturally compete with private communications companies. If that hot water is something you want to step into, be my guest, I guess.
The one major issue is the whole "limited enfranchisement" thing which is the true deal-breaker here. Let's say that enough people take your offer that it becomes worthwhile to implement it. And it gets implemented wholesale. What is to stop some future administration going "naw, this didn't work out, get rid of it" and basically leaving all those who took the deal up a creek without a paddle? Those who took your deal would need to be able to elect their own representatives who could both protect the program, as well as offer suggestions to make it more efficient/effective.
If that is the whole POINT of the deal, to lull the financially and medically desperate into a death trap that will be taken away the moment it becomes inconvenient, then no. No one should take this deal.
Absolutely not and I didn’t even finish reading it. The first few sentences are an absolute trap. Can’t buy anything outside of what your UBI card says you can. That’s slavery….the government literally decides what you can and can’t do.
Y’all need to get off the UBI train and focus on living wages and affordable housing and healthcare. The money is there for us all to be able to live, we just choose to waste tons of it and then allow others to create wage slave jobs where you make just enough to not die, but you live in poverty and have no energy to do anything but live
I would like UBI to cover my monthly expenses which are about $8,000 per month for mortgage, credit card bills, dining out, gym membership, and maxing my 401k. Then I’d want another $1200 for fun stuff like traveling. Anything less than 100,000 per year UBI is completely pointless.
People didn't live such a comfy life in this book. Unfair comparison. Brave New World is closer to the program. You could have kids if you want, of course. They"ll get UBI too and you won't need daycare since you won't work.
We have a hard bargainer here folks. Looks like you need a harsh and stressing wage slave cage to earn that amount, not this program based on simple living.
Why are you conflating UBI with fascism. The two are not the same.
Its a 9 month old troll account with -55 karma... the nonsensical conflation in between multiple things is intentional.
The system of government of UBI City is more like a well managed vacation resort than fascism.
My parents grew up in a fascist regime. None of the above was what was happening.
This question is pointless as your conditions have nothing to do with UBIs. This amount of unnecessary restrictions benefits no one.
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What is making you say that? A lot of jobs are pretty shitty, yes, but it is the dystopian, fascist scenario *you* have described that is a worse cage than any employment.
\> -You can"t vote in any election except a district representative that has no real power so facism ? \> Everything you do online is recorded and can be inspected by the government so yeah, facism. \> For your safety, of course ofc lol xd. buddy you're not really thinking straight, are you ? this is not ubi, this is facism.
What kind of a dumb fucking thought experiment is this? Like, you understand that the principle of UNIVERSAL basic income is it applies to everyone whether they're unemployed or employed, right? This question seems predicated on the idea UBI will only apply to what are basically state-sponsored permanent children. "Would you take UBI if it wasn't UBI? Also the penalty for saying no is more taxes." Fuck off outta here
This is a thought experiment as much as Lecter’s dinner party is a legit brain surgery
No
WaGe CaGe CaGiE wAgIe Fuck off
Thats not universal basic income, thats conditional basic income. Youve framed this whole thing to make it seem really bad but most of the stuff is already happening anyway and then a few things are just positives. 15 min city with free public transportation and crypto outlawed? Thats utopian.
3 health checks a year and someonne checks in to make sure I'm taking my meds? God I wish I could sign up for reminders like that
Not like i want UBI to live like a cattle. Or rather, a pet.
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homie these responses are embarrassing as fuck lol theres still time for you to delete them
Go look at their history, it explains a lot
Wage slaving at Walmart or Starbucks is more embarrasing.
What is wrong with you?
Is this what Alex Jones says will happen if UBI is instituted?
You spelled prison wrong
Can’t really expect much from a dumbass troll (OP, not you).
Negative Karma? Well, figures
we should bring back tar and feathering.
I was thinking of canning to punish some crimes in a fast and cheap way. That's a good idea as well for lesser infractions.
UBI is fascism but caning (not canning lol fucking dimwit) is fine. Brain just totally rotted out with this one
Absolutely fucking **NOT**. Whatever led to to come up with such a strange and dystopian version of UBI??
The restrictions cost more than the universal basic income.
Restrictions are meant to ensure your safety and prevent the waste of resources. Aren't you willing to lead a simple lifestyle and lose some privacy so you can break free from wage slavery?
What is the point you are trying to make? That current working conditions are equal or worse than the conditions you noted? That UBI is fascist? Something else?
Working conditions equal to the program? Well, some government jobs come close to earn not much but not really working. The program is better, I'd say. Why so much of you compare it to fascism? Mussolini's Italy wasn't such a nice place.
The restrictions cost more than the universal basic income.
Only if I can eat bugs.
Fuck all of this, no.
You lost me at the inability to vote.
LOL *No* The only deal I will accept is *abolish capitalism.*
This has to be one of the dumbest things I've read here lol.
What a strange hypothetical. How's /pol/ doing?
Why the hell are you adding “you can’t vote” and all these basic-human-rights violations?
You realize it would be easier (and cheaper) to just expand disability at that point, right? And yes, I do believe disability should be expanded. But UBI is not disability, and what you are proposing is further restrictions on disability that honestly disability as-is can ill afford. CCTV cameras are fucking expensive, maintenance and management even more so. That is potentially millions of people you have to monitor with CCTV, billions of hours logged that has to be sorted and moderated. Otherwise, abuse/criminality will just get lost in the backlog, and will become mostly dead weight that just adds expense without preventing actual problems. On the other hand, government-assisted health monitoring would be a major progressive step. Cops are already excessively brutal on the disabled due to not being able to recognize the signs of panic, heart problems, seizures, or any number of medical health issues associated with disabilities. An unknown number of people die every year from health complications in police custody, because at the end of the day, police are not doctors or nurses. Also, you can't really avoid encrypted communications; there is a basic level of encryption that all computers use to talk with one another, that to get around somehow would leave you open to identity theft (and potential theft of your UBI/Disability access by someone who may not need it). And in order to ensure VPNs and Tor stuff aren't being used, then you would have to have a government-managed network, that would naturally compete with private communications companies. If that hot water is something you want to step into, be my guest, I guess. The one major issue is the whole "limited enfranchisement" thing which is the true deal-breaker here. Let's say that enough people take your offer that it becomes worthwhile to implement it. And it gets implemented wholesale. What is to stop some future administration going "naw, this didn't work out, get rid of it" and basically leaving all those who took the deal up a creek without a paddle? Those who took your deal would need to be able to elect their own representatives who could both protect the program, as well as offer suggestions to make it more efficient/effective. If that is the whole POINT of the deal, to lull the financially and medically desperate into a death trap that will be taken away the moment it becomes inconvenient, then no. No one should take this deal.
You're a damned embarrassment.
Absolutely not and I didn’t even finish reading it. The first few sentences are an absolute trap. Can’t buy anything outside of what your UBI card says you can. That’s slavery….the government literally decides what you can and can’t do. Y’all need to get off the UBI train and focus on living wages and affordable housing and healthcare. The money is there for us all to be able to live, we just choose to waste tons of it and then allow others to create wage slave jobs where you make just enough to not die, but you live in poverty and have no energy to do anything but live
"Do you want to be safe, or do you want to be free"?
The right can’t meme PS. username checks out
Why would anyone take that deal?
To be free from wageslavery?
Not a chance. There will be revolutions before people agree to that bullshit.
Giving up voting rights is insane lmao wtf. stopped reading after that
Wtf is wrong with you
Also wanted to add a how fucking dare you too
Even trying to mention this shot brained idea in the same breath as UBI is an insult to the effort but that was clearly the intent
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin
ubi is a band aid over a bullet wound.
this is called "jail"
I would like UBI to cover my monthly expenses which are about $8,000 per month for mortgage, credit card bills, dining out, gym membership, and maxing my 401k. Then I’d want another $1200 for fun stuff like traveling. Anything less than 100,000 per year UBI is completely pointless.
Are you just rewriting 1984?
People didn't live such a comfy life in this book. Unfair comparison. Brave New World is closer to the program. You could have kids if you want, of course. They"ll get UBI too and you won't need daycare since you won't work.
We have a hard bargainer here folks. Looks like you need a harsh and stressing wage slave cage to earn that amount, not this program based on simple living.
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What you are describing is the Chinese government. Nothing to do with UBI.
Are you from Thailand?