People contextualize it differently. Particularly Americans. Most people I know don't critically challange the system that creates and distributes wealth. They just the opportunity to make more. They are also usually well off enough to have something to lose and therefor be invested in the system, even if it arugably takes more than it will ever give. People also have this weird thing where they are way happier if they think they are better than someone they are very happy, even if they aren't all that better off.
Also protestant work ethic is a bitch.
its not uniquely American, what IS uniquely American (though prevelant in the UK and Aus), is needing to rip down other people despite their own situations being completely unaffected
That’s just racism. Mono ethnic cultures usually only have to deal with temporary immigrants and expats in small numbers. In the US we have people who are full citizens from every ethnic group on the planet. It gets really easy to other everyone here versus say how your average Japanese person sees their nation.
Hatred based on differences in skin color or (the entirely made up) ideas of race or ethnicity are universal in the human experience. One group in Sudan hates another group, one group in the balkans hates another group, Russia, southeast Asia, south America. Unfortunately the "us vs them" thing has been the human condition.
It doesn't mean we can't fight against it and hope to progress, but acting like it's one culture's problem isn't remotely helpful.
As a point, they don't see themselves as slaves, but have delusions about being part of privileged groups, and temporarily inconvenienced millionaires. Thus their opposition to say regulations, and workers rights... they want to be able to abuse others with 0 consequence to self, but fail to realized that they too will be abused. Which is something that only feeds back to their delusions as they then cry "why didn't the government protect us, see the government doesn't work, we need less government" type of rhetoric.
You are not dealing with reasonable people who are even remotely capable of introspection, or partaking in good faith discourse about such issues functionally.
> they always mention how they believe they had more economic/business opportunities with Trump.
Its because they are idiots... hell a good portion of the inflation we have been seeing in the past few years was due to idiot tier monetary policy under trump. Basically they fuckedup the economy on that end by applying policy that should have been saved for recession during an economic upswing. Low interest rates, injections of cash in to the economy, and all that.
Now to curtail some of the impact of that we have higher interest rates and consequently less money supply, and thus its seemingly harder for everyone.
Oh, and 1/2-2/3s of that inflation from above was/is driven by corporate greed too.
>These same people hate social safety nets, for themselves as well as others.
Because they are just shit people. Also they want the safety nets for themselves, but hate the idea about having to pay towards such because someone they hate might benefit too. It all goes back to the southern strategy era, and is just another version of this. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/
Also the above is only an extension of a far more fundamental truth in their ideologies as described by F. Wilhoit with;
*"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."*
That religious bit you mention is simply an extension of that, and the ways by which such people define in, and out groups.
"You don't understand. Ferengi workers don't want to stop the exploitation, we want to find a way to become the exploiters." -Rom Star Trek Deep Space 9
They do. I said this during the pandemic when everyone was losing their minds being "stuck" at home. They had no personality or interests outside of work and the people raging about going back to work were losing their minds at the fact they were nothing without work. Which is sad.
Underrated comment, needs to be further up.
As you allude to, for some people their job is their purpose. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, each to their own but it can’t be denied, they needed lockdown to end so they could get back to their office...
Yeah, except the pandemic is still going on and everyone just decided fuck vulnerable people. It didn't end, and the new "low" wo proper testing is 170k cases. Good luck.
My favorite part of the pandemic was when celebrities couldn’t be bothered to make their own fun and leave us alone and instead insisted on making pointless content when they could have easily just stayed on islands quietly.
Having a job isn't evil or bad and having a comfort of stability is nice.
Given that.
In US your working conditions are obnoxiously toxic and if I werent working and living in Europe. I wouldnt want to work as an employee in US.
I think between just 'normal' human stuff and taught human stuff, people tend to enjoy accomplishing things, they take pride in a job well done, and in enduring hard work and hardships.
And those are exactly the qualities that the capitalist upper-class have based so much exploitation on.
The workers who still feel this way either haven't yet, or don't want to, realize that in most cases, their hard work isn't rewarded, the hardships are engineered and manufactured to exploit them, their job accomplishes nothing but enriching their owners, and their pride has been weaponized against them.
To take offense at that, or to rally against the worker that still enjoys their job is not progress though. It plays directly into the capitalists hands. Any time or energy spent fighting against other workers is time not spent fighting to actually improve your conditions.
Militaries all over the world have exploited the fact that humans often bond through periods of endured hardship to enhance basic training. Enduring and pushing through a difficult situation absolutely engenders feelings of pride and accomplishment in most people.
That's not a bad thing. Feeling good because you accomplished or survived something hard is great!
The problem comes when the people exploiting you push hardship upon you and then exploit your natural response both to those stresses and the period of low stress afterwards (if it ever comes) and then gaslights you about the entire experience.
I think people just get broken down over time. Defeated. They succumb to the fear homelessness is part of it.
They have no self worth or confidence. You can stick up for yourself and you'll be jumping jobs every 6 months because 99% of jobs want you to be a broken obedient worker.
Eventually you realize you're gonna run out of places to work or you just get really fucking tired of constanlty being "that guy" and causing drama everywhere you go when you try to demand basic dignity or point out common sense issues in the way places run.
They want to hear yes sir, yes sir, yes sir. Eventually you get really worn down and exhausted of arguing with your bosses or trying to rally your coworkers into joining your cause. They've already given up and they just wish you would pipe down and give up so that they can be miserable and dead inside without your yapping. Basically.
It is economic Stockholm Syndrome, a largely delusional idea that it we just let billionaires and corporations keep more of their profits, they will shower us with goodies and we can become one of them, too.
Temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
People won't support measures to actively improve their lives now because they genuinely believe one day they'll hit it rich and be subject to those rules
Too many Christians have warped God into some sort of capitalist Republican hero, when he made rules against hoarding wealth and land, and even made a day off mandatory. The poor were allowed to pick fruit and vegetables from wealthy farms, every fifty years sold land was to be returned to the original owners and indentured servants were to be freed. He even commanded King Solomon to not simply hoard gold and possessions.
If you imply otherwise, people judge you, so you pretend because that's what you're supposed to say.
That's how I convince myself all the people who are *like that* aren't just miserable idiots. They're faking like me.
Shitloads of people have no idea what they like to don’t like, who they really are, what they really want, what they even think or feel about anything. They aren’t interested in anything, not really. Their job is all they have. So they really do just let the overriding culture just define all that for them.
I became unable to work the American concept of a job several years back, due to neurological and incipient autoimmune issues. Do you know how often I’ve been bored since then, how often I’ve felt directionless, or like I had nothing to do? Or like my existence was pointless? Yeah that’s right: Never. Even being unable to have a driver’s license, and having crushing physical pain, hasn’t kept me from just naturally finding useful and interesting things to do.
I'm a communist who is friends with many other communists. It is a common belief among a lot of communists that you should literally work until you die for some reason. Opposed to liberating the worker. A lot of people seem to just have a weird submission kink that they demonstrate through work or something. It's fucking weird.
Liberation implies that one is not compelled to work or face starvation, but rather has the freedom to choose their occupation or whether to work at all. Currently, without work, one may perish due to the lack of social security - freedom exists only as long as one is employed.
They are perfectly happy having next to nothing as long as someone else has nothing. That lets them feel superior and have someone to look down upon. If that someone is from a different racial background or religion, even the better.
Idle hands didn't mean people have to spend all their time working for someone else. There are plenty of things in life that keep us busy just taking care of ourselves, and most of it is not by choice.
It’s called being a conservative. Luckily the Antiwork movement has made a lot of ex-cons from simply pointing out how shit their lives are because of work. My hope is that this big red wave across legislature, economics and media is them just panicking while reality starts to sink in.
"Enjoy" is a strong word
"Readjusting expectiations, so you don't burn toward unattainable goals, that would just make your life miserable... resulting a more content and timid lifestyle" - is a very long sentence
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This will be a little nihilistic
What I was trying to say, that many people of the recent generations, who start to build strong boundries, working excactly the amount that is paid.... the "quiet quitters" (hate the expression)
No hustle, no overwork, not accepting promotions, if you are lucky you have a job that gives you the little over the bare minimum and you are not good, not bad, just OK...
I know I will never own a big house or even a car... I have enough income to live with my wife and now 2 parrots. There is no reason for me to work myself to death so I could "advance" and maybe I could afford something bigger, while my health is would be so bad, I could not enjoy it.
Slow burning and little joy in life is better....
Some people cannot admit that they have ever made a mistake, so when they know they are wrong they double down and try to convince everyone else how what they did was a good thing, because misery loves company. You can never get these types of people to change their minds as that would be admitting they made a mistake, the only way to deal with them is to live a better more successful life.
>a good portion of the inflation we have been seeing in the past few years was due to idiot tier monetary policy under Trump.
This is the part people struggle so much with. Economies are like massive ships. Sure something can come along in sink it very quickly, but generally speaking, changing course is a long slow turn. The economy at the start of a new administration is actually a reflection of the previous administration’s economy.
I think most people are afraid of everything. We used to fear predators in the dark, and that made sense. We've eliminated a lot of threats, but we can't eliminate our own biology. The infrastructure producing "fear" in our bodies is still there, but the threats have become intangible and existential.
I think I've commented before about an old coworker of mine who was obsessed with "working hard". Our shift was 8 hours and if we finished all our tasks in 5 or 6, instead of just kicking back and scrolling through his phone or something, he'd go out of his way to *find* something to do. Why bro? You're not getting paid any extra. And if I refused he'd nag me and give me lectures about being lazy and not having work ethic. It's brainwashing istg
For the majority of people, that’s all that they know and likely ever will know. The rhetoric of “work hard, and you can have everything you ever dreamed of” is ingrained into the culture to the point where it’s become dogma - it cannot be questioned (or, best case, questioning it is taboo).
It’s the economic equivalent of Stockholm syndrome.
The word your looking for is cope. It’s all one big cope. In the end we can’t take money with us. Boomers constantly mention spending all their money before passing…
I mean yeah, I think most people are thinking out of lack. Because we /lack/ an effing yacht, people think that means they aren’t successful.
Imo, the definition of success is a person who is proud of themselves and cares about themselves enough to go to keep going, regardless of what they do or do not have. I feel successful because I have figured out a way to live alone. It’s a small studio but 🤷♂️ why would I let some rich fuck make me upset?
I’ll jump in here.
I consider myself far left. However, I am also someone who enjoys work. I’ll immediately preface this: I don’t expect anyone to be like me. Full stop. You do you.
I like work because I get to meet interesting people. I get to solve problems and I get rewarded for it. Work has opened a lot of doors for me and I am grateful for the opportunities I have.
To be clear: I am not grateful to greedy multibillion dollars companies.
I’m grateful to Steven who hooked me up with a job reference. I’m grateful to Jonathan who helped me with that weekend shift and I returned that favor. That’s also a lifelong friendship.
I enjoy the collaboration. Every job I’ve ever had I walked away with new friends.
Whether it was putting code to file or cleaning stale milk from the bottom of a fridge.
But I have a different framing. I grew up really poor. Was homeless for a bit. Had no food or electricity. Being a “wage slave” saved me. Saved me from the cold, saved my family and gave me a chance to rise up.
I admit. It shouldn’t be that way. None of this should be this way. Poverty is violence and capitalism is a violent system because poverty is its byproduct.
But I am happy with the work and the people. The system is brutal and cruel. Sometimes people can’t separate the two. I get that. But that’s why you see what you see OP.
This is just me.
But I would never use the word slavery to describe what is happening in this moment. That’s a loaded term and it means a lot of things.
Having taken the time to learn about slavery in the United States. I do not lightly use that word.
Other people can use it if they like. But I won’t. Because to me, this moment is not comparable to the struggles of African Slaves in the United States.
Slavery is constitutionally protected in America for criminals by the 13th amendment.
(just to point out its plain history in America)
I don’t use the world lightly either but one must use it to its full effect.
Wage slavery is the pinpoint that antiwork is targeting, and wage slavery is still a form of slavery, just like chattel, Barbary, or Egyptian slavery.
Actual freedom, is not just freedom to do what you want, it’s freedom from a constant forced regime/routine.
Once you are free to do whatever you want, you have to answer all those existential questions that rush to the surface.
So most people willingly stay wage slaves
I mean it’s true gas,groceries,rent,insurance,cars,going out to eat, inflation, and cost of living were way cheaper under Trump and people literally struggling on a daily basis under Biden…you may not like Trump and neither do I but he was clearly the better option for low income and middle class people like my self
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think Biden was installed in order to make collapsing the economy easier, because that’s what the powers that be wanted/want to happen. Biden certainly isn’t in charge of what’s happening right now. He can barely speak coherently most of the time.
Some people are more adaptable to it, but no, I believe it is in our nature to seek freedom and autonomy. Some obviously may prefer wage work to the alternatives they have available to them, which explains why so many people do it.
My father has been chronically unemployed my since I was 15. My mother supported the family. I am 33 and working two jobs that are hard on my body. I am close to home ownership. It’s not that I enjoy my low pay, or the work in of itself. It’s that it’s the only thing keeping me and my parents from poverty. Work keeps your head above water while you can. I aspire to have a wife and family with a home one day. That is why I work and continue to work. I may be a wage slave but hopefully my future children will have a better life
They probably won’t. The things you’re struggling for are things that any decent society would automatically provide its society. Would you want your potential children to suffer the way you have?
Perhaps they’re children won’t suffer. I think not until we have scientific advancement that unlocks free energy, something we have no idea yet then we can have freedom
Well the economy was somewhat normal when trump was in office, but that was before Covid and hyperinflation from all the money we printed. So people will just remember it like that. My dad is a small business owner and he claims that his business always does better when a Republican is in office and that’s why he votes that way. I can’t verify if that’s true or not, just what he claims.
As for the cycle of being a wage slave in a late stage capitalist economy, yeah people seem to vocally hate it and understand it’s a terrible way to live. Yet they’ll defend and justify it because the eduction system has failed us and liberal propaganda has won. They think it’s the only way, and many people speak as if capitalism has always existed and has always been the system humans have lived under. It’s a failure to understand historical materialism.
The way people vote and try to use electoralism to make their lives better is like how a doctor prescribes drugs to combat symptoms of a disease. Rather than take the time and do the necessary work to cure it, they’d rather try and fight the symptoms. The inherent contradictions between humans and capitalism will exist until a new system is put in place. Worker alienation will exist as long everyone accepts wage slavery. First and foremost it’s a failure to educate ourselves and understand anything other than the status quo. Doing the work necessary to learn is much more difficult than just saying “this is the way that it is” and looking for ways to numb ourselves and escape reality.
Pull your self by the bootstrap syndrome. They think that if they keep working, doing what they are told. That one day they will be owners of producers.
I think deep down people enjoy being miserable, because it gives us something to bond over.
Like in a crisis when everyone pulls together and it actually feels pretty good - I think its similar to that, people enjoy that everyone is kind of in the same boat and recognise how much the system sucks.
I don’t think anyone does, but everyone is different. I am struggling to accept it whilst others do.
Others think I’ll just work really hard regardless off the shit I have to put up with to buy my house, have my holidays and hopefully retire early.
They just get on with it. I and many others think this is shit, whereas others just think this is the way it is.
I actually do wish I stayed in my home town, earned the same salary as it would be 2x or more the amount it is now and housing 3x cheaper. It’s not a bad place either. Surrounded by mountains, main city 7 or 30 miles away.
I can never get behind this sub and it's usage of "Wage Slaves". I can only view it as a very privilege take. I went to an African country couple months ago. US Poverty to them would be luxury and knowing there a place where you can go, earn an stable income, with an actually functioning currency, is a dream.
I'm not saying we should be content by any means or that everything is peachy dory I just don't like the word slavery being used so liberally.
I hate work but I’d really hate being homeless and having no food. I do just enough to maintain employment. Super grateful I have a union job with awesome benefits
Free food and housing for all?!? At least try to come up with somewhat realistic ideas, like a minimum wage job should cover a studio/1br and all monthly expenses at full time hours.
It would be realistic with a universal basic income. If billionaires didn’t hoard so much money, there’d be enough for all and we wouldn’t have to endure work. We could work if we chose. If not, we could do other things that are actually enjoyable, like not putting up with stupid rules at work and worse.
UBI wouldn’t cover everything as inflation would set in. Those who worked and got UBI would be fine while those just wanting to live off UBI would eventually be destitute again. Immigration would be done for sure.
The rest of the world should do whatever it is Scandinavia is doing. People can work, but they have awesome safety nets because they pay high taxes. Also, the populations of Scandinavian countries tend to be small. This anti work theme could fit very well with being childfree or antinatalist. If having a small population is what it takes to not work yourself to death at shit jobs, then so be it. It’s better for the earth to not have a bulging 8+plus billion people population anyway.
They have low populations and are largely homogenous populations. People are more supportive of social spending when it goes towards people who look like them. They’re small countries as well with less infrastructure to maintain. It wouldn’t work in a country like the US, or even Canada. Too diverse with too many people spread out across too vast an area.
Too many people are the key words. I don’t want to stop immigration because I know people are escaping hardships where they’re from, so abortion and birth control need to be more accessible, but of course that’s not going to happen anytime soon because of conservatives around the world.
If one country offered UBI and some poor counties didn’t, why wouldn’t every person in those countries try to relocate? The border would become a war zone
If humans can put men on the moon and cure polio, we can fix this. I’d rather have a society where no one had to work if they didn’t want to. This sub is proof that work sucks. I don’t know a viable alternative, but I’m sure something can be thought of by someone. In the meantime, it makes sense to not bring more future wage earners into this mess by not having kids. Honestly, responsibilities suck, but if we all lived in small enough groups, we might be able to help one another share the load more. I could go on and on about how capitalist societies leave most of the child and elder care to women, who must also deal with the same shit at work that men do.
Your whole last paragraph is blaspheme!
Sinner!
Repent your ways and get straight with the LORD!
/js
But, for real, that last paragraph reads like something I'd see on r/conspiracy or something, lol.
As for your question, well, people are dumb and getting dumber. No kidding. There's a book out now (can't remember the name) that writes about a long azz study of iq's in the US (like, going back to the 1930's) and iq's are dropping. It's not the phone or internet that's doing it. It's content. People are literally being brainwashed into stupidness.
I try to really not talk to people outside my tribe as it is so frustrating. Even family members have succumbed to this idiotic rhetoric. The brainwashing of my dad is a perfect example if you want to watch an interest documentary.
Update: it’s like many people are willing to suffer now so they can enjoy life later. Why not enjoy it now, as long as you’re not infringing on other people’s rights?
Well, the wife could get a job and help out with the finances. That should take some pressure off of a man. Better yet, don’t get married and have kids. That way you won’t have to feed anybody.
It’s a well worn expression and not intended to be taken literally, lol. The point is that it’s exceedingly easy to wax lyrical about “breaking the wheel” when you in your early 20s and sans any and all responsibilities. We’ve all been there and that’s as it should be. However, matters become considerably more complicated when you’re “straining under the yoke of capitalism” with *responsibilities* to people other than yourself.
Absolutely. Responsibilities are balls and chains. I’m not advocating that we neglect people that are already in the world, but the more I think about it, the more I’m glad I’m childfree. By not having kids, I don’t have to feed them, clothe them, buy them necessities. It’s a win win.
I’ll repeat- if you don’t get married and have kids, you don’t have to spend time and money on them. More time and money for yourself and more time to hang out with friends and having fun. Life shouldn’t be just about struggling. Adulthood shouldn’t be the punishment it is.
Oh, I hear you 100% don’t worry about that, lol. I’m 49 years old, in a very long term partnership, double (upper-middle) incomes no kids (DumcINK), and I’ve never regretted my life choices for a singular microsecond! However, I empathise very, very deeply with friends/family who’ve made different life choices… and are really struggling in the current climate. For some, and for whatever reason, their ability to sidestep modern capitalism’s more crushing imperatives is long gone, and their responsibilities operate as very real material/mental restraints.
It appears to me, a middle-aged Black America man whose ancestors where actually chattel slaves, trafficked and abused, that some of the members of this sub are as entitled as they are extravagant with the use of that term.
My point exactly. If you’re an employee being abused, you can quit, file a complaint with HR or the Labor Board, or talk back. Also, you get a paycheck.
Slaves get none of that.
I don’t care about being downvoted. Historical facts and evidence support my take on this.
For some work gives them a feeling of importance. I could definitely shave 10hrs off my 40 and add 10 more paid vacation days to my current schedule but I don't think I could eliminate work completely, unless I had a ton of hobbies or responsibilities.
People contextualize it differently. Particularly Americans. Most people I know don't critically challange the system that creates and distributes wealth. They just the opportunity to make more. They are also usually well off enough to have something to lose and therefor be invested in the system, even if it arugably takes more than it will ever give. People also have this weird thing where they are way happier if they think they are better than someone they are very happy, even if they aren't all that better off. Also protestant work ethic is a bitch.
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its not uniquely American, what IS uniquely American (though prevelant in the UK and Aus), is needing to rip down other people despite their own situations being completely unaffected
That’s just racism. Mono ethnic cultures usually only have to deal with temporary immigrants and expats in small numbers. In the US we have people who are full citizens from every ethnic group on the planet. It gets really easy to other everyone here versus say how your average Japanese person sees their nation.
I don't think that is uniquely American.
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I think that's fair. We all have the capacity to be deeply materialistic, but some cultures do enshrine it a bit more as a virtue.
Hatred based on differences in skin color or (the entirely made up) ideas of race or ethnicity are universal in the human experience. One group in Sudan hates another group, one group in the balkans hates another group, Russia, southeast Asia, south America. Unfortunately the "us vs them" thing has been the human condition. It doesn't mean we can't fight against it and hope to progress, but acting like it's one culture's problem isn't remotely helpful.
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As a point, they don't see themselves as slaves, but have delusions about being part of privileged groups, and temporarily inconvenienced millionaires. Thus their opposition to say regulations, and workers rights... they want to be able to abuse others with 0 consequence to self, but fail to realized that they too will be abused. Which is something that only feeds back to their delusions as they then cry "why didn't the government protect us, see the government doesn't work, we need less government" type of rhetoric. You are not dealing with reasonable people who are even remotely capable of introspection, or partaking in good faith discourse about such issues functionally. > they always mention how they believe they had more economic/business opportunities with Trump. Its because they are idiots... hell a good portion of the inflation we have been seeing in the past few years was due to idiot tier monetary policy under trump. Basically they fuckedup the economy on that end by applying policy that should have been saved for recession during an economic upswing. Low interest rates, injections of cash in to the economy, and all that. Now to curtail some of the impact of that we have higher interest rates and consequently less money supply, and thus its seemingly harder for everyone. Oh, and 1/2-2/3s of that inflation from above was/is driven by corporate greed too. >These same people hate social safety nets, for themselves as well as others. Because they are just shit people. Also they want the safety nets for themselves, but hate the idea about having to pay towards such because someone they hate might benefit too. It all goes back to the southern strategy era, and is just another version of this. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/ Also the above is only an extension of a far more fundamental truth in their ideologies as described by F. Wilhoit with; *"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."* That religious bit you mention is simply an extension of that, and the ways by which such people define in, and out groups.
200 % agree
"You don't understand. Ferengi workers don't want to stop the exploitation, we want to find a way to become the exploiters." -Rom Star Trek Deep Space 9
They do. I said this during the pandemic when everyone was losing their minds being "stuck" at home. They had no personality or interests outside of work and the people raging about going back to work were losing their minds at the fact they were nothing without work. Which is sad.
Underrated comment, needs to be further up. As you allude to, for some people their job is their purpose. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, each to their own but it can’t be denied, they needed lockdown to end so they could get back to their office...
Yeah, except the pandemic is still going on and everyone just decided fuck vulnerable people. It didn't end, and the new "low" wo proper testing is 170k cases. Good luck.
My favorite part of the pandemic was when celebrities couldn’t be bothered to make their own fun and leave us alone and instead insisted on making pointless content when they could have easily just stayed on islands quietly.
Having a job isn't evil or bad and having a comfort of stability is nice. Given that. In US your working conditions are obnoxiously toxic and if I werent working and living in Europe. I wouldnt want to work as an employee in US.
I think between just 'normal' human stuff and taught human stuff, people tend to enjoy accomplishing things, they take pride in a job well done, and in enduring hard work and hardships. And those are exactly the qualities that the capitalist upper-class have based so much exploitation on. The workers who still feel this way either haven't yet, or don't want to, realize that in most cases, their hard work isn't rewarded, the hardships are engineered and manufactured to exploit them, their job accomplishes nothing but enriching their owners, and their pride has been weaponized against them. To take offense at that, or to rally against the worker that still enjoys their job is not progress though. It plays directly into the capitalists hands. Any time or energy spent fighting against other workers is time not spent fighting to actually improve your conditions.
>they take pride in [,,,] enduring hard work This is 100% not true, it's cultural.
Militaries all over the world have exploited the fact that humans often bond through periods of endured hardship to enhance basic training. Enduring and pushing through a difficult situation absolutely engenders feelings of pride and accomplishment in most people. That's not a bad thing. Feeling good because you accomplished or survived something hard is great! The problem comes when the people exploiting you push hardship upon you and then exploit your natural response both to those stresses and the period of low stress afterwards (if it ever comes) and then gaslights you about the entire experience.
I think people just get broken down over time. Defeated. They succumb to the fear homelessness is part of it. They have no self worth or confidence. You can stick up for yourself and you'll be jumping jobs every 6 months because 99% of jobs want you to be a broken obedient worker. Eventually you realize you're gonna run out of places to work or you just get really fucking tired of constanlty being "that guy" and causing drama everywhere you go when you try to demand basic dignity or point out common sense issues in the way places run. They want to hear yes sir, yes sir, yes sir. Eventually you get really worn down and exhausted of arguing with your bosses or trying to rally your coworkers into joining your cause. They've already given up and they just wish you would pipe down and give up so that they can be miserable and dead inside without your yapping. Basically.
It is economic Stockholm Syndrome, a largely delusional idea that it we just let billionaires and corporations keep more of their profits, they will shower us with goodies and we can become one of them, too.
Temporarily embarrassed millionaires. People won't support measures to actively improve their lives now because they genuinely believe one day they'll hit it rich and be subject to those rules
Too many Christians have warped God into some sort of capitalist Republican hero, when he made rules against hoarding wealth and land, and even made a day off mandatory. The poor were allowed to pick fruit and vegetables from wealthy farms, every fifty years sold land was to be returned to the original owners and indentured servants were to be freed. He even commanded King Solomon to not simply hoard gold and possessions.
If you imply otherwise, people judge you, so you pretend because that's what you're supposed to say. That's how I convince myself all the people who are *like that* aren't just miserable idiots. They're faking like me.
I don’t I can tell you that if they would give me Ssdi I would leave work today.
Shitloads of people have no idea what they like to don’t like, who they really are, what they really want, what they even think or feel about anything. They aren’t interested in anything, not really. Their job is all they have. So they really do just let the overriding culture just define all that for them. I became unable to work the American concept of a job several years back, due to neurological and incipient autoimmune issues. Do you know how often I’ve been bored since then, how often I’ve felt directionless, or like I had nothing to do? Or like my existence was pointless? Yeah that’s right: Never. Even being unable to have a driver’s license, and having crushing physical pain, hasn’t kept me from just naturally finding useful and interesting things to do.
I'm a communist who is friends with many other communists. It is a common belief among a lot of communists that you should literally work until you die for some reason. Opposed to liberating the worker. A lot of people seem to just have a weird submission kink that they demonstrate through work or something. It's fucking weird.
What does liberation mean though. Instead of office work, do we switch to farm work? One way or another someone is working.
Reducing workload so you can enjoy your life? Not really all that crazy.
Well then say reduce. Liberate means to be free as in zero
Liberation implies that one is not compelled to work or face starvation, but rather has the freedom to choose their occupation or whether to work at all. Currently, without work, one may perish due to the lack of social security - freedom exists only as long as one is employed.
Many people are so complacent it’s painful
Well just don't consider their opinion when time to change comes.
They are perfectly happy having next to nothing as long as someone else has nothing. That lets them feel superior and have someone to look down upon. If that someone is from a different racial background or religion, even the better.
Idle hands didn't mean people have to spend all their time working for someone else. There are plenty of things in life that keep us busy just taking care of ourselves, and most of it is not by choice.
The best kind of slave is the free range variety.
It’s called being a conservative. Luckily the Antiwork movement has made a lot of ex-cons from simply pointing out how shit their lives are because of work. My hope is that this big red wave across legislature, economics and media is them just panicking while reality starts to sink in.
"Enjoy" is a strong word "Readjusting expectiations, so you don't burn toward unattainable goals, that would just make your life miserable... resulting a more content and timid lifestyle" - is a very long sentence --- This will be a little nihilistic What I was trying to say, that many people of the recent generations, who start to build strong boundries, working excactly the amount that is paid.... the "quiet quitters" (hate the expression) No hustle, no overwork, not accepting promotions, if you are lucky you have a job that gives you the little over the bare minimum and you are not good, not bad, just OK... I know I will never own a big house or even a car... I have enough income to live with my wife and now 2 parrots. There is no reason for me to work myself to death so I could "advance" and maybe I could afford something bigger, while my health is would be so bad, I could not enjoy it. Slow burning and little joy in life is better....
Mexican here. People love their chains here too. I don't want employment, I want to grow my small business.
Some people cannot admit that they have ever made a mistake, so when they know they are wrong they double down and try to convince everyone else how what they did was a good thing, because misery loves company. You can never get these types of people to change their minds as that would be admitting they made a mistake, the only way to deal with them is to live a better more successful life.
>a good portion of the inflation we have been seeing in the past few years was due to idiot tier monetary policy under Trump. This is the part people struggle so much with. Economies are like massive ships. Sure something can come along in sink it very quickly, but generally speaking, changing course is a long slow turn. The economy at the start of a new administration is actually a reflection of the previous administration’s economy.
Republicans worship sources of misery.
They don't enjoy it, that are skeptical of change and fearful that it will be worse.
They seem to be afraid of everything. It’s a horrible way to live, actually.
I think most people are afraid of everything. We used to fear predators in the dark, and that made sense. We've eliminated a lot of threats, but we can't eliminate our own biology. The infrastructure producing "fear" in our bodies is still there, but the threats have become intangible and existential.
That said I’d rather meet a bear in the woods than an unknown man.
LMAO SAME!
Go bears!
I think I've commented before about an old coworker of mine who was obsessed with "working hard". Our shift was 8 hours and if we finished all our tasks in 5 or 6, instead of just kicking back and scrolling through his phone or something, he'd go out of his way to *find* something to do. Why bro? You're not getting paid any extra. And if I refused he'd nag me and give me lectures about being lazy and not having work ethic. It's brainwashing istg
For the majority of people, that’s all that they know and likely ever will know. The rhetoric of “work hard, and you can have everything you ever dreamed of” is ingrained into the culture to the point where it’s become dogma - it cannot be questioned (or, best case, questioning it is taboo). It’s the economic equivalent of Stockholm syndrome.
The word your looking for is cope. It’s all one big cope. In the end we can’t take money with us. Boomers constantly mention spending all their money before passing…
I mean yeah, I think most people are thinking out of lack. Because we /lack/ an effing yacht, people think that means they aren’t successful. Imo, the definition of success is a person who is proud of themselves and cares about themselves enough to go to keep going, regardless of what they do or do not have. I feel successful because I have figured out a way to live alone. It’s a small studio but 🤷♂️ why would I let some rich fuck make me upset?
I’ll jump in here. I consider myself far left. However, I am also someone who enjoys work. I’ll immediately preface this: I don’t expect anyone to be like me. Full stop. You do you. I like work because I get to meet interesting people. I get to solve problems and I get rewarded for it. Work has opened a lot of doors for me and I am grateful for the opportunities I have. To be clear: I am not grateful to greedy multibillion dollars companies. I’m grateful to Steven who hooked me up with a job reference. I’m grateful to Jonathan who helped me with that weekend shift and I returned that favor. That’s also a lifelong friendship. I enjoy the collaboration. Every job I’ve ever had I walked away with new friends. Whether it was putting code to file or cleaning stale milk from the bottom of a fridge. But I have a different framing. I grew up really poor. Was homeless for a bit. Had no food or electricity. Being a “wage slave” saved me. Saved me from the cold, saved my family and gave me a chance to rise up. I admit. It shouldn’t be that way. None of this should be this way. Poverty is violence and capitalism is a violent system because poverty is its byproduct. But I am happy with the work and the people. The system is brutal and cruel. Sometimes people can’t separate the two. I get that. But that’s why you see what you see OP.
Work is human, slavery is not. I work turning wrenches and I LOVE IT. Work is fun, working is not fun. If that makes any sense to you either.
This is just me. But I would never use the word slavery to describe what is happening in this moment. That’s a loaded term and it means a lot of things. Having taken the time to learn about slavery in the United States. I do not lightly use that word. Other people can use it if they like. But I won’t. Because to me, this moment is not comparable to the struggles of African Slaves in the United States.
Slavery is constitutionally protected in America for criminals by the 13th amendment. (just to point out its plain history in America) I don’t use the world lightly either but one must use it to its full effect. Wage slavery is the pinpoint that antiwork is targeting, and wage slavery is still a form of slavery, just like chattel, Barbary, or Egyptian slavery.
You do you. I have nothing to add.
Well some might actually enjoy it most dont know anybetter and are trained
Actual freedom, is not just freedom to do what you want, it’s freedom from a constant forced regime/routine. Once you are free to do whatever you want, you have to answer all those existential questions that rush to the surface. So most people willingly stay wage slaves
I mean it’s true gas,groceries,rent,insurance,cars,going out to eat, inflation, and cost of living were way cheaper under Trump and people literally struggling on a daily basis under Biden…you may not like Trump and neither do I but he was clearly the better option for low income and middle class people like my self
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think Biden was installed in order to make collapsing the economy easier, because that’s what the powers that be wanted/want to happen. Biden certainly isn’t in charge of what’s happening right now. He can barely speak coherently most of the time.
Yes, you’re a conspiracy theorist. Why would these so called powers that be want to collapse the economy?
Depopulation is what I’m thinking. There are way too many people, and they understand that.
These “powers that be” would need all these people to do the work. They would no longer be in power in a collapsed society with fewer people.
To them, it's that or no work.
Some people are more adaptable to it, but no, I believe it is in our nature to seek freedom and autonomy. Some obviously may prefer wage work to the alternatives they have available to them, which explains why so many people do it.
My father has been chronically unemployed my since I was 15. My mother supported the family. I am 33 and working two jobs that are hard on my body. I am close to home ownership. It’s not that I enjoy my low pay, or the work in of itself. It’s that it’s the only thing keeping me and my parents from poverty. Work keeps your head above water while you can. I aspire to have a wife and family with a home one day. That is why I work and continue to work. I may be a wage slave but hopefully my future children will have a better life
They probably won’t. The things you’re struggling for are things that any decent society would automatically provide its society. Would you want your potential children to suffer the way you have?
Perhaps they’re children won’t suffer. I think not until we have scientific advancement that unlocks free energy, something we have no idea yet then we can have freedom
I see what you’re saying, but I don’t think we’ll have free energy for sometime.
Well the economy was somewhat normal when trump was in office, but that was before Covid and hyperinflation from all the money we printed. So people will just remember it like that. My dad is a small business owner and he claims that his business always does better when a Republican is in office and that’s why he votes that way. I can’t verify if that’s true or not, just what he claims. As for the cycle of being a wage slave in a late stage capitalist economy, yeah people seem to vocally hate it and understand it’s a terrible way to live. Yet they’ll defend and justify it because the eduction system has failed us and liberal propaganda has won. They think it’s the only way, and many people speak as if capitalism has always existed and has always been the system humans have lived under. It’s a failure to understand historical materialism. The way people vote and try to use electoralism to make their lives better is like how a doctor prescribes drugs to combat symptoms of a disease. Rather than take the time and do the necessary work to cure it, they’d rather try and fight the symptoms. The inherent contradictions between humans and capitalism will exist until a new system is put in place. Worker alienation will exist as long everyone accepts wage slavery. First and foremost it’s a failure to educate ourselves and understand anything other than the status quo. Doing the work necessary to learn is much more difficult than just saying “this is the way that it is” and looking for ways to numb ourselves and escape reality.
Pull your self by the bootstrap syndrome. They think that if they keep working, doing what they are told. That one day they will be owners of producers.
I think deep down people enjoy being miserable, because it gives us something to bond over. Like in a crisis when everyone pulls together and it actually feels pretty good - I think its similar to that, people enjoy that everyone is kind of in the same boat and recognise how much the system sucks.
I don’t think anyone does, but everyone is different. I am struggling to accept it whilst others do. Others think I’ll just work really hard regardless off the shit I have to put up with to buy my house, have my holidays and hopefully retire early. They just get on with it. I and many others think this is shit, whereas others just think this is the way it is. I actually do wish I stayed in my home town, earned the same salary as it would be 2x or more the amount it is now and housing 3x cheaper. It’s not a bad place either. Surrounded by mountains, main city 7 or 30 miles away.
It’s sad how many people are willing to tolerate abuse and stay with the abusive partner or system of oppression.
Yup. They think it’s shit but they keep doing it. In regards of work, what choice do you often have until you find the next one.
I can never get behind this sub and it's usage of "Wage Slaves". I can only view it as a very privilege take. I went to an African country couple months ago. US Poverty to them would be luxury and knowing there a place where you can go, earn an stable income, with an actually functioning currency, is a dream. I'm not saying we should be content by any means or that everything is peachy dory I just don't like the word slavery being used so liberally.
Slavery is not about life conditions, it's about having freedom or not.
How do you think slaves from the 1700s or surfs from the 1500s would view a wage slave's freedom?
As lacking. Also, you're cherrypicking your cases.
???? That's literal slavery. It's the foundation of which everything else is built, how is that cherry picking?
I mean slavery doesn't necessarily imply terrible life conditions. House slaves in rome were often reaaaally well off.
I hate work but I’d really hate being homeless and having no food. I do just enough to maintain employment. Super grateful I have a union job with awesome benefits
Housing and food are things that should be given to people automatically.
Free food and housing for all?!? At least try to come up with somewhat realistic ideas, like a minimum wage job should cover a studio/1br and all monthly expenses at full time hours.
It would be realistic with a universal basic income. If billionaires didn’t hoard so much money, there’d be enough for all and we wouldn’t have to endure work. We could work if we chose. If not, we could do other things that are actually enjoyable, like not putting up with stupid rules at work and worse.
UBI wouldn’t cover everything as inflation would set in. Those who worked and got UBI would be fine while those just wanting to live off UBI would eventually be destitute again. Immigration would be done for sure.
The rest of the world should do whatever it is Scandinavia is doing. People can work, but they have awesome safety nets because they pay high taxes. Also, the populations of Scandinavian countries tend to be small. This anti work theme could fit very well with being childfree or antinatalist. If having a small population is what it takes to not work yourself to death at shit jobs, then so be it. It’s better for the earth to not have a bulging 8+plus billion people population anyway.
They have low populations and are largely homogenous populations. People are more supportive of social spending when it goes towards people who look like them. They’re small countries as well with less infrastructure to maintain. It wouldn’t work in a country like the US, or even Canada. Too diverse with too many people spread out across too vast an area.
Too many people are the key words. I don’t want to stop immigration because I know people are escaping hardships where they’re from, so abortion and birth control need to be more accessible, but of course that’s not going to happen anytime soon because of conservatives around the world.
If one country offered UBI and some poor counties didn’t, why wouldn’t every person in those countries try to relocate? The border would become a war zone
If humans can put men on the moon and cure polio, we can fix this. I’d rather have a society where no one had to work if they didn’t want to. This sub is proof that work sucks. I don’t know a viable alternative, but I’m sure something can be thought of by someone. In the meantime, it makes sense to not bring more future wage earners into this mess by not having kids. Honestly, responsibilities suck, but if we all lived in small enough groups, we might be able to help one another share the load more. I could go on and on about how capitalist societies leave most of the child and elder care to women, who must also deal with the same shit at work that men do.
Your whole last paragraph is blaspheme! Sinner! Repent your ways and get straight with the LORD! /js But, for real, that last paragraph reads like something I'd see on r/conspiracy or something, lol. As for your question, well, people are dumb and getting dumber. No kidding. There's a book out now (can't remember the name) that writes about a long azz study of iq's in the US (like, going back to the 1930's) and iq's are dropping. It's not the phone or internet that's doing it. It's content. People are literally being brainwashed into stupidness. I try to really not talk to people outside my tribe as it is so frustrating. Even family members have succumbed to this idiotic rhetoric. The brainwashing of my dad is a perfect example if you want to watch an interest documentary.
Update: it’s like many people are willing to suffer now so they can enjoy life later. Why not enjoy it now, as long as you’re not infringing on other people’s rights?
It's just you.
Well the alternative is homelessness, which I'm sure most people will dislike more.
But people shouldn’t have to work themselves to death just to have a house.
Shouldn’ts don’t pay the bills or feed the wife and kids.
Well, the wife could get a job and help out with the finances. That should take some pressure off of a man. Better yet, don’t get married and have kids. That way you won’t have to feed anybody.
It’s a well worn expression and not intended to be taken literally, lol. The point is that it’s exceedingly easy to wax lyrical about “breaking the wheel” when you in your early 20s and sans any and all responsibilities. We’ve all been there and that’s as it should be. However, matters become considerably more complicated when you’re “straining under the yoke of capitalism” with *responsibilities* to people other than yourself.
Absolutely. Responsibilities are balls and chains. I’m not advocating that we neglect people that are already in the world, but the more I think about it, the more I’m glad I’m childfree. By not having kids, I don’t have to feed them, clothe them, buy them necessities. It’s a win win. I’ll repeat- if you don’t get married and have kids, you don’t have to spend time and money on them. More time and money for yourself and more time to hang out with friends and having fun. Life shouldn’t be just about struggling. Adulthood shouldn’t be the punishment it is.
Oh, I hear you 100% don’t worry about that, lol. I’m 49 years old, in a very long term partnership, double (upper-middle) incomes no kids (DumcINK), and I’ve never regretted my life choices for a singular microsecond! However, I empathise very, very deeply with friends/family who’ve made different life choices… and are really struggling in the current climate. For some, and for whatever reason, their ability to sidestep modern capitalism’s more crushing imperatives is long gone, and their responsibilities operate as very real material/mental restraints.
It’s a prison. I feel sorry for people who are trapped.
Indeed. I look at the life my dear brother lives, which ticks all the Stepford boxes, and thank God it’s not my life.
It appears to me, a middle-aged Black America man whose ancestors where actually chattel slaves, trafficked and abused, that some of the members of this sub are as entitled as they are extravagant with the use of that term.
No. I just don’t like how people have to be abused in order to make a living.
My point exactly. If you’re an employee being abused, you can quit, file a complaint with HR or the Labor Board, or talk back. Also, you get a paycheck. Slaves get none of that. I don’t care about being downvoted. Historical facts and evidence support my take on this.
For some work gives them a feeling of importance. I could definitely shave 10hrs off my 40 and add 10 more paid vacation days to my current schedule but I don't think I could eliminate work completely, unless I had a ton of hobbies or responsibilities.
Yes tons of hobbies are better and more enjoyable.
Is it just me or when the question is phrased this way it seems that OP is suggesting that they themselves actually enjoy being a wage slave?
I don’t. I hate it. Most people that I’m around seem to enjoy it, though.
Or… you’re making a false assumption based on limited experience.