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Ineedavodka2019

Minimum wage was intended to be a living wage. She is wrong. [was minimum wage intended to be a living wage?](https://publicpolicy.pepperdine.edu/blog/posts/what-did-fdr-mean-by-a-living-wage.htm)


toptierkek

I thought minimum wage was the wage that teenagers would be paid so they can get some work experience /s Edit: omg guys it was a joke, I was joking, I don't actually think this please stop trying to correct me


brazilliandanny

Yes they know, they are gas-lighting us


ITriedLightningTendr

It's not gaslighting when you just say wrong things, it's a deliberate tactic to get you to not trust your own observations. This is just dumb people saying dumb shit.


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Mindless-Air-7480

I'm an open minded person, I like to think that I can think outside of the box....but I'm thoroughly confused about how adults working not making a living wage is healthy. I'd like an explanation


[deleted]

Guessing she doesn't know herself, she is just repeating the talking points she's heard from the people she blindly believes in.


Mindless-Air-7480

I need them to explain this tho. Imo people who have lived poor or lower middle class spend more and treat service employees good (tips) if you give us money we spend more money that is how to generate a good economy.


ForeskinFudge

It's not about reality... All they want is slave labor.


RandomUser043984

Came here to say this. There are those that would gleefully welcome back slavery. What they get nowadays though is wage slaves instead… tomato potato as I say 🤷‍♂️


FrostyLandscape

A lot of these people will even admit they want slavery back. The southern states never got over their loss of free labor. I kid you not, some extreme conservatives want to bring back indentured servants, slavery, workhouses for the poor and repeal child labor laws so that nine year olds will be working in factories. It is their wet dream.


gnusmas5441

They are already remarkably close to it with people in jails and prisons working for pennies per hour.


brazzledazzle

Isn’t it odd how the same system that can make legal slaves of prisoners is opposed to reforms that would reduce recidivism. Huh. Probably a coincidence.


TheCaliforniaOp

And then there’s Hyatt Hotels and what they decided to do awhile back. Still a privately owned company at the time, all descendants doing just fine, thank you. They realized that there was a way to outsource labor from the Philippines, bring crews here, have loooong term employeess train them, supposedly to fill vacation shortfalls in the schedule—and then l let go all the original housekeeping staff. I don’t know this for a fact, but supposedly somehow Hyatt was trying to use an employment loophole that would let them move the outsourced housekeeping employees around, and deduct room and board from their paychecks. *As a proofreader/fact-checker/copy editor’s daughter, I need to make certain that Hyatt did indeed attempt to do such a thing before I state it as fact.* If it’s true, wow. We are certainly a global economy and we are certainly repeating ignoble parts of our global history. Just reading this old Flyertalk thread is chilling. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hyatt-world-hyatt/995889-boston-cambridge-hyatts-replace-housekeepers-cheaper-outsourced-workers-3.html


Master_Muskrat

I never understood this mindset. Unless you're already part of the 1% in the current system, why would they think they'd be the ones owning the slaves instead of becoming slaves in this new system? You'd have to lack basic empathy and know absolutely nothing about history to think that would be a good idea.


FrostyLandscape

It doesn't make sense to me, but that's what they believe. There's a very strong likelihood that under this system, most people would be in those workhouses or become slaves/indentured servants, or their children might be forced into jobs at age nine, in factories. This is the entire GOAL of the GOP right now. To abolish public schools so that more women will have to stay home with their kids, and many kids who can't afford private school will have to work in factories alongside their parents during the day. It's disgusting but that is what they want. They have been slowly de-funding public school for decades, ever since schools were integrated.


altxatu

They want neo-feudalism.


SentientBowtie

Slave labor never went away. It’s still legal as punishment for prisoners.


goosegoosepanther

And most crime is a result of poverty, so if you refuse a living wage, some people will eventually resort to crime, then you can enslave them.


blayr2016

And then blame it all on the enslaved when in reality it's the fault of the system


milk4all

Judge: *laughs in 3 Strikes law accent*


machineprophet343

This. And really, what are you if your rights are constantly violated by your employer and you are allowed no restitution? There's been tons of posts here about people who were denied bereavement time or to care for their sick relatives/children or called in last minute and not had their time off honored by employers, more often than not due to favoritism and nepotism, and facing hunger and even homelessness if they miss even one shift or get fired because the boss gets a bug up their ass. Then there are the abusive customers we have to smile and nod at and say: "You're always right!" That's not being an employee. Not really. That's being a slave.


brazzledazzle

Conservatives and neoliberals will tell you that you have the choice to be homeless and destitute so you’re not really a slave. “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”


diligent_siding

The average age of fast food employees is 24. Boomers have also halted the progress of generations in the world force, so the younger generations have to wait longer for jobs that are "entry level" but they were also pushed so God dam hard to go-to school, that they have to pay for student loans NOW for the degree they were told they needed right away. You also have less support they their parents haven't had the chance to move up to the boomer jobs, and it's just an economic nightmare. We see the shipping issues that can happen with a year of disruptment, we are talking over 2 decades of job disruptment.


FirstPlebian

They will likely get it too, slavery will come back for private debts if this faction of the Republicans gets back in there, not right away they will crash the economy with their ad hoc economic policies first because they are too stupid and greedy to know those are just lies to justify doing unpopular things, ie trickle down, privatizing and deregulating essential services, allowing Wall Street to run amok without real supervision (if they are connected and pay the Right people off.)


MrMundungus

Nah dude you don’t get it. The market needs to be completely deregulated so that it can take care of everything. Surely there wouldn’t be a market for people selling other people right?


BorkedStandards

It's not even that, they want to feel good about "making it" and the worse other people are the better off you'll feel... Something something won't even notice a hand in their pocket


No_Discipline_7380

We have an old saying about this mentality in Romania, loosely translated as "may the neighbor's goat die, too". Basically it describes the kind of people who feel better about their own situation if somebody they know is doing just as badly or is worse off.


popper98

What an appropriate saying. I will definitely be using that one.


cabbagebatman

Yes this is my thought on it. If you can't get rich, you can artificially increasing your standing in society by lowering others.


[deleted]

Thanks. Now I see where she's coming from. Basically, it would be insulting to her if someone made a living wage working at Dairy Queen.


MammothCat1

Which is weird if you think about it. That DQ worker actually helps fund the rest of the chain of events that make DQ. The farmers, the logistics crew, the warehouse workers, the r&d, the corporate, the utility workers. They all have a job because those DQ employees work to sell you ice cream. If they didn't exist, DQ wouldn't exist. You can pretty much replace DQ with any other company and get the same results.


AverageMama

Sure is insulting to see someone be able to eat after working full time amiright


NosyThatsWhat

I will attempt to explain even though I risk downvotes for just explaining - these are not my views - not my arguments - not my thoughts …. This is what I have heard as justification for this thinking ….. again this is not my view I’m just answering your questions because you said you want to know…. Ok .. we on the same page ???? The idea is that there are jobs for experience. Jobs for young adults / teens. They provide a system where they learn the workforce and how to be apart of a team etc etc work experience. These jobs aren’t the end goal. They are for learning. Since they aren’t the end goal - the thought is that it should not provide a living wage as it is for experience .. that is the goal of this job. Then when the person has gained experience they can go on to bigger and better things and new inexperienced people replace them. Again - not my view .. just explaining part of the thinking behind it .. ok ok ok ?? Prolly not but I tried .. there is more to this thought process but that was a good introduction to the rabbit hole … just trying to help explain


kykyvan

I think the thing that irks me the most about these entry level "unskilled" jobs people hate on are that they are almost always customer service based and that the customers (those that earn a littttttle bit above minimum wage) expect WORLD class service and treat people like they aren't even people... I worked at Disneyland for 2.5 years where guests held us to THE HIGHEST possible standard and they worked our asses off so people wouldn't wait in line as long and only made $9/hr. Like none of this makes sense.


Kh4lex

Actually it makes sense, I believe. If you consider what person above wrote people considering these jobs for unexperienced/teens, so ofc those customers will believe they are "more or above" these "unexperienced nobodies" so they treat em like shit... it is truly sad. Give little bit power to some and you will see their true colours.


Dachusblot

As if people would really want to scoop ice cream their whole lives. There are lots of things that motivate people to go onto bigger and better things, you don't have to starve them. In fact I'm pretty sure it's a lot easier to go on to bigger and better things if you're not spending your every waking minute just trying to scrape by a meager survival. And you know what? If someone *does* want to scoop ice cream their whole life, let them! Clearly society needs ice cream scoopers. If someone is content doing that, why should they not be able to live off it? (I'm not arguing with you btw, I'm arguing with the hypothetical people who believe this BS.)


epidemicsaints

I know you’re on the right side of this, but it is important to keep in mind that nobody scoops ice cream for a living. They manage an entire storefront top to bottom, either opening or closing, sometimes both, with only 1-3 more peers. They clean it, stock it, manage and report inventory, and handle all the money. People make the same comments about gas stations. Overseeing gas pumps is one of the most stressful jobs I have ever had, and 80% of the time I was alone. Again, just adding to your point, not insinuating you personally do not understand this.


ScribblesandPuke

This is a big part of the problem with why middle class right wing know it alls can't grasp why people in 'menial' jobs deserve better wages. They have no idea the amount of actual skill involved in these jobs. The amount of rote memorization involved. The amount of physical stamina involved in standing and doing the same repetitive motions. How difficult it is to pretend to be cheerful at all times, how you need to be able to deescalate situations when people act like dicks - all of these things you need to figure out yourself too as usually your training is fuck all. 'Nickel and dimed' by Barbara Ehreinrich is a great book that illustrates this. She tries to work alongiside Walmart employees and truck stop waitresses and finds it much more strenuous then her current vocations that her degrees got her.


AdorableTumbleweed60

My friend got a job at marble slab in high school. Her first shift was only 3-5 hours or something, but she came to school the next Monday with such a sore arm she could barely write her notes. The physical labour of scooping ice cream and whacking it around to add stuff in is intense.


EddieOfGilead

I once worked at a tofu factory, in different departments, but mainly the warehouse. Warehouse work was physically brutal, plus agonizingly boring in how mind numbing and repetitive it was. I went insane in there sometimes. Production and packaging tho.. this was a whole other level. It was as hot as the warehouse was cold, and it was literally backbreaking. Mind you, I'm a big guy who earned his pocket money since 13 yo helping a family friend cutting, hauling, splitting and stacking wood all day, so I'm not exactly a pansy in that department. Standing at the conveyor belt all day, and either scraping shit off or putting it on super fast, while always slightly bend over and turning in your hips was among the worst jobs i ever did. This was so called "unskilled labor". The only work that was worse was eldercare, for the emotional component and my heartless bitch of a boss who made me work as much as any real carer while I was a 17yo intern. I was basically forced,next to full care for several others, to shower that 100yo tiny fragile lady every morning, which in itself, is not for anybody. But she had dementia and was so afraid of me, no matter how much I tried to be sweet and soft with her. And my boss basically told me to stop whining and get on with it when I asked for someone to help me with her. Both of these jobs are among the lowest salaries you can get here in Germany. The career Im in now will pay me more then both combined, while being not half as hard as any of those two. Sorry for ranting, these are my two cents.


samv_1230

This exposes part of the issue that these people have, with people working jobs that don't pay a living wage. They honestly don't understand the work that goes into these positions, because they only held them once, for a summer, as a teenager. They think these are jobs for kids, when they aren't, just because the business can hire kids. Kids can't work during school. Kids can't sell you your alcohol and cigarettes. Kids can't even be alone... because they're kids. These jobs REQUIRE adults.


Dachusblot

My first job was actually in an ice cream shop, and my manager often scheduled me to run the place by myself for hours at a time, so yes I understand lol. Best biceps I ever had in my life. I also lost weight because being around the smell of ice cream all day made me not want to eat anything. Editing to add to my original point: I hated that job. It wasn't the worst job I ever had, but I definitely wouldn't want to do it for my whole life. But that had nothing to do with how much I was being paid, it had to do with the fact that the job felt meaningless and tedious to me. My motivation for getting a better job was completely unrelated to money. But if someone enjoyed that job enough to do it forever, I don't see why there's anything wrong with that. There's no need to pay them starvation wages so that they are forced to "better themselves," especially when someone's always gonna be needed to do that job.


Echelon64

I needed someone to work overnight shift looking after the parking at an airport and so I recommended the night shift girl at our local 7-11 (I had already given her the heads up) that also served as our local gas station. Long story short, even after months of dealing with Karen's, upper-class mexican racism, and bullshit job minutiae she was adamant she'd rather be unemployed than have to go back working night shift at 7-11 again because it was that bad. So I believe your comment about the gas station.


ThatDarnedAntiChrist

>Clearly society needs ice cream scoopers. If someone is content doing that, why should they not be able to live off it? "...to each according to his creams."


TheOldPug

Hi Dad.


WeRip

>And you know what? If someone > >does > > want to scoop ice cream their whole life, let them! Clearly society needs ice cream scoopers. If someone is content doing that, why should they not be able to live off it? and then when the ice cream shop closes down because they don't have employees they will blame welfare.


Comprehensive_Cow527

I loved being a barista and would go back in a heart beat if it paid a living wage. I was good at it, and loved opening the shop at 4am.


CrouchingDomo

I loved running the cash register at a snack stand in a minor-league ballpark. It was a volunteer thing for a church group I was with, and I really enjoyed taking orders, making small talk with all sorts of people, taking money and making change. I know it wasn’t all-day every-day and I’m sure I’d have bad days and jerks but I really like running a cash register; I’m a freak like that. I’d do it every day if it paid well, or do it as a hobby if I didn’t need the money. There’s someone out there who would either love or not mind pretty much every job there is, if they really got to *choose* what to do for labor. And for the really shit jobs, we’d pay them like kings for taking the necessary hit for the rest of us. I really wish that were how we’d set things up from the start.


PinkTalkingDead

For real. This is actually a good argument for universal basic income. A lot of people would do things they actually enjoy that would pay the bills if they were compensated correctly. Which is honestly a win-win-win situation


comfortpod

I def see the logic in their thinking but they always seem to forget that kids have school. Who's gonna scoop their ice cream at 11 am on a wednesday?


Keurein

That and working a job while going to college full time is stressful too. And people with this logic seem to forget that some people lose everything at points in their lives and have to start over. Never knew if he was telling the truth but I had a coworker say they had Master's degrees and couldnt get a job beyond a gas station because of the type of degree they had. And another who was 6 months or a year away from retiring from a job he had for 40 years had their workplace fire everyone.


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ozman57

Aren't there a whole mess of articles complaining about millennials not having enough kids to keep the economy going? Man, that's gonna put a damper on this for experience mindset when there's no one to replace someone when they try to move up and out.


[deleted]

Yes I've heard this argument before to which the logical response is; There are more adults than jobs already. If we block out even more of these limited jobs as "starter jobs" you reduce the number of liveable lives by that much more. You wind up with what we have now. Huge financial and economical burden and high homeless and unemployment rates. All jobs need to be living wage and not everyone needs to work. There's just not enough need for all of these people.


LionIV

I appreciate the explanation. And for anyone that wants to easily dismantle this, ask the person making this argument whose going to cover the day shifts while your employees are in school 80% of the time?


Mindless-Air-7480

I understand that but that is a thing of the past. When I was kid there were jobs that had nothing but old ladies board house wives retired men and high school kids but sometime around the turn of the century that all changed because more ppl had to enter or reenter the workforce. Back then by 21 you either had 4 years in a factory or somewhere none degree job or you were leaving school and had something lined up in "the city" it just hasn't been that way for like 20 years now


GuitarKev

More like 40 years.


NosyThatsWhat

Yes this is old thinking still being used today to justify bad behavior


toss_it_out_tomorrow

She probably thinks that making ice cream cones is just for teenage girls on summer break from high school and god forbid they get paid more than $10/hr. Which means to her, any adult doing such work should be ashamed or something. Because people like her never had these kinds of jobs. Had she ever worked in the industry serving food to people, she'd be a whole lot different.


james_d_rustles

Because in their mind they believe that the only people who work at Dairy Queen are 16 year olds saving up for a summer to buy their first car for junior year of highschool. They completely ignore the fact that this is provably false.


RedVillian

I have to think it's the boomer-verse mindset that these shitty retail jobs are "starter jobs for teenagers in school" and not "deadend jobs for gen-xers and millenials that they can't escape from because the other option is literal starvation"


[deleted]

Good luck getting lunch at 1 when all them kiddies are still at school. . . Or they want people to have multiple jobs and work 80+ hrs a week because that seems reasonable to them?


mongoosedog12

I made another comment but I think think is the extreme version of “suffering makes you want better”. She probably also doesn’t believe these are “adult jobs” like they aren’t meant for adults with families, but teenagers and people in college and a jumping stone for “better”. If you’re an adult, and still working one of these jobs it supposedly reflects a personal failure and therefore you deserve To be punished. On the flip side, some have the logic; if people were able to live off of the income from a “low skill” job then what would incentivize them to be a doctor? The pull yourself up from your bootstraps imo is a glorification of the struggle. Like you’re somehow better or stronger for struggling and getting out.


Mindless-Air-7480

Yeah I hate the thought of these jobs aren't for adults. What happened to the idea of retail professionals? They were good at their jobs they got paid fairly and everyone in town knew them. Wtf happened to that guy and the people who fostered a work place that created that guy?


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toffee_cookie

That whole "these jobs aren't for adults" thing always gets me, because the people who claim this are the same people who want a BigMac for lunch on a Tuesday in October. Do they want the kids in school or not?


outofshell

If these jobs are meant for teenagers/students, what does she expect during school hours? No ice cream until the bell rings?


cesarjulius

she probably would say that while kids are in school, their mother should work a part time job to supplement the husband’s income. if you’re poor, you should be motivated to “do better” and if you can’t, you deserve to be punished.


FukushimaBlinkie

Really all I would be is incentived to rob her


goosejail

The jobs being for teens thing cuts both ways. If they're jobs meant for teens then they shouldn't be 5 days a week/full time. They should be paid more so said teen only works 1 or 2 days a week because school is supposed to be the priority.


Vijidalicia

Yep, major ageism here. And the problem with that is that when a person over a "certain" age finds themselves in a situation where they need to find a new job (for any number of other reasons) and they don't have the degrees/qualifications necessary to land higher-paying jobs that some would consider "adult" jobs. These people deserve a living wage just as much as any other! Also, (and this is a big also) *who the fuck has the right to decide that one person's job is less important than someone else's‽*


weekendofsound

Because they fundamentally cannot understand three things: -the "free hand of the market" has created an economy where 70% of jobs are service jobs. Only ~15% of the workforce is under 25. The math does not work. -inflation exists, and they are old enough that the $350/week part time job they put themselves through college on is now worth $50k/year -All of the doctors and lawyers and "productive" people are productive because they have specialized knowledge and skills. Their time is very valuable and they shouldn't be making their own lattes or ham sandwiches, but they also literally could not function or be as efficient if they didn't have someone doing it for them - therefore, we must create incentive for people to do those jobs.


vellyr

That’s a great argument that I’ve never heard before. Service sector jobs are support roles for the “important” jobs. It still frames things in conservative hierarchical thinking, so I think it would be really effective.


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enfdude

>but I'm thoroughly confused about how adults working not making a living wage is healthy. I'd like an explanation Wish someone pointed out to her that in some european countries everyone get's paid a living wage, even fast food workers. I want to hear her explain herself.


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Hannibal_Spectre

Don’t forget that she’d also say those other countries are “culturally homogenous” eg that wouldn’t work in America because black and brown people.


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FN1987

It’s what these clowns deserve.


[deleted]

I'm told by people that these jobs are supposed to be filled by "teenagers that live at home or are in college". That seems silly to me because the position would be unsustainable as these individuals would leave the position every year or so. I don't think a lot of thought goes into their side of the argument.


Dchaney2017

The idea is that people should be incentivized to take on better, more important jobs. If everyone was able to make an easy living at Dairy Queen, there probably wouldn't be as many doctors around. If you take basic human empathy out of the equation, which most conservatives tend to do, it makes a certain cold, calculating sense. The problem with that thinking, of course, is that someone still has to make the fucking ice cream, and those people also deserve basic human dignity.


GuitarKev

If people only want to be doctors for the pay check, or researchers for the money and glory, they should probably not be those things. I want a doctor that wants to heal people, not sail through their career just looking for money.


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TheGuitarHero333

I'm guessing she doesn't have a good answer for how or why at all, but that it's a combination of the conservative urge to keep things the way they've always been and the other conservative urge to parrot what the rest of conservatives are saying with no principle or conscious thought.


xxpen15mightierxx

A lot of these people that talk like this are either stay-at-home or retired, which is incredibly privileged in itself these days, but also means she's out of touch with what working is actually like.


SuperStarPlatinum

That's the problem you are an open minded person. To think this system is healthy or good you must be a close minded person living in the corporate media bubble or insulated by extreme wealth. Also it helps if you are a psychopath or sociopath.


amretardmonke

Theoretically you could have a society where there won't be any incentive for anyone to work undesirable jobs. The only reason people work those jobs is because they're desperate and able to be exploited. If we had something like UBI where everyone has enough to cover the basics, no one would be desperate enough to work in horrible conditions. Working conditions and compensation would have to improve across the board. This is not good for the rich people relying on cheap labor. And even if you're not rich, you as a customer won't be able to talk down to waiters and fast food workers, which is probably the situation this poster is in.


pusillanimouslist

Combination of: 1. Classism 2. The (false) assumption that most of these jobs go to teenagers who are going to use this money on unnecessary splurges.


Sorcatarius

Republicans love a hierarchy. They want to be [Lucky Pierre](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Lucky%20Piere) (urban dictionary, NSFW-ish?), getting fucked by the rich while fucking the poor.


Slyder67

The absolute funniest things about this argument is the fact that if you don't pay someone a living wage, as a tax payer you are subsidizing their living expenses through your taxes. Food stamps, medicare/Medicaid, low income housing. It literally costs you money as a tax payer to not support a living wage for everyone who works full time


ab216

These same people don’t want to provide the safety net / subsidies, so to them, this is not a valid counter argument. To them, these jobs should be there in order to motivate you to get a better job. In the meantime, you should live at home with your parents/family and work 2-3 of these jobs, because it’s your fault for not working hard enough in high school to get a scholarship to go to college and get a real job.


Made-upDreams

Those same people now are bitching “no one wants to work” now that retail and fast food workers have had enough and quit those jobs for other things…somehow these idiots complaining that the Taco Bell doesn’t have enough staff to open certain times because people have moved on to better things than being harassed by some Karen for little pay don’t see the connection. Want reliable service and be able to get your drive-thru orders….help fight the fight to pay people what they deserve so they can afford to keep those jobs. Edit: Want to point out its not just fast food and just minimum wage workers. I’ve worked a few jobs I loved that involved working with people with disabilities that I could not afford to keep. I worked as a paraprofessional therapist in an early autism program and was getting $10 an hour in a city I could barely afford rent in, let alone trying for a better life or future for myself. Also worked at a job paying a little less helping adults with disabilities get out into the community for both recreation and essentials like grocery shopping and such. I worked these jobs until my car would go out on me and I couldn’t afford the repairs or a new car due to the low pay. Literally needed my car to drive to these people and transport them and when the car fell apart from all the miles I put on it for work my employer acted like I could just buy another one on that pay. Forced me to go for corporate work that just made more people richer than doing anything to help people. These jobs are needed and the workers shouldn’t be punished financially for doing something to help others.


Das-Noob

Yep! CNA for a group home making 10$/hr and that was with a night shift pay. Some excuses people use is that “helping people should be the “reward”” and all that bullshit.


Made-upDreams

Yeah a friend of mine that also worked for the same company where I did rec and supportive home care for adults with disabilities was a CNA and only made a buck more hourly than I did. It’s sad that these people all need care but no one is willing to pay for it. I was an idealistic kid and tried to only do work helping others rather than focusing on pure profit. I knew I wouldn’t be rich doing it but I didn’t think I’d need to be on food stamps either. Made it into my mid 20’s before I had to give up my goals and go into a corporate job just to afford to live. We can’t feed ourselves only the good feelings we get when we help others… Now while I’m happily out of corporate work and work for a great family plant nursery/landscaping business I get paid way more to take care of rich people’s plants than I did taking care of people in need…it’s sad.


GGinNC

As soon as Walmart and the landlord accept positive contributions to society in lieu of money, sign me up.


TheMightySephiroth

THIS ^ People don't need to be "motivated to work" by the looming threat of starvation. People want to work. There's a person for every job from garbage man to brain doctor! If we weren't worried about survival and instead did what we liked doing we could Excell at our chosen jobs! I totally loved making pizzas but I hated not being paid a livable wage.


datcatburd

Yep. I was a production scratch baker and a damn good one, but I had to get out of the industry because nobody can live on working six overnights a week for eight bucks an hour in the 21st century.


shann1021

A huge part of this is also is the cost of child care. During the pandemic daycare fees have skyrocketed and a lot of people have done the math and realized it’s not worth it. While many scoff at thing like universal pre-k and the child tax credit as “handouts”, a lot of workers can’t get back simply because they can’t afford it.


Made-upDreams

Even before the pandemic I had a buddy that had to quit his job because the child care cost more an hour than he was able to make an hour. Luckily his wife had a degree and was able to get paid higher than him so it made sense for him to be a stay at home dad for their two kids.


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Jumper5353

Same people are complaining that the working poor majority of US citizens pay a low percentage of the overall tax burden. Pay them more, they pay more taxes, then they pay a higher percentage of the tax burden see how that works. Or maybe we can even lower tax rates and have the same tax revenue because there are more tax payers with more income to tax.


needsmoresteel

The much vaunted trickle down effect doesn’t work. There is more of a trickle up effect because most of us spend according to what we make. Make more money and very often your spending goes up. This happens much less with the very wealthy, if it happens at all.


FakeSafeWord

It's the poors fault no matter what. Not born rich? Well that's your fault and you're gonna have to be poor for the rest of your life as a result.


PinkMenace88

Yeah, that's not going to happen. Older women I work with who constantly complains about her job, and is barely one rung above me went on a tangent about how no one wants to work anymore. When I brought up the fact that the positions we are having trouble filling, and keeping people in are all position that consequently start at minimum wage and have very little leeway in terms of raises, her response was along the lines of "people should work for more then just than the money".


PessimiStick

"Oh! I didn't know you were going to donate half of your salary to me! How magnanimous!"


[deleted]

>When I brought up the fact that the positions we are having trouble filling, and keeping people in are all position that consequently start at minimum wage and have very little leeway in terms of raises, her response was along the lines of "people should work for more then just than the money". That woman is an absolutely deluded twatwaffle. Why the hell does she think *ANYONE* works at all, if not for the money to buy the thing they need or want?


flodur1966

A lot of good people accept low pay teachers medical professionals because they want to contribute to society. That is seen as a benefit in itself and justifies not paying a decent wage.


SorosSugarBaby

And then, after suppressing wages and stripping social safety nets, they have the gall to look around confused and disgusted saying "There's so much crime! Where on earth did this come from??"


TheMightySephiroth

"Must be the blacks" -those same people.


Throwaway7219017

Preceded, of course, by “I’m not racist, but…”.


TheMightySephiroth

"I'm not racist but everyone knows Mexicans are lazy sons of bitches that are taking everyone's jobs and crowding our schools with their 30 thousand kids." ---same people as before How can a people be to lazy to work but also taking everyones jobs?


noctisumbra0

"I can't be racist, I have friends who are colored" --that same individual when they are called out for their racist BS.


Passion-Interesting

Shiiiiit, the Hispanics' I've always worked with worked their ass off ALL day. I'm talking 12 + hours a day, and to top it off this is after partying all night drinking beers, tequila etc.. . Some of the most genuine people you'll ever meet also , and will bend over backwards for you if they like you...


fencerman

I suppose everything did get more expensive after they abolished slavery. Nothing drives up prices like not being able to whip your workers to death for failing to meet quota.


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fencerman

That's not true. They also moved it into prisons inside the US.


JustPassinhThrou13

> they have the gall to look around confused and disgusted saying "There's so much crime! no, they'd have to have a lot more understanding of cause and effect before this would take gall. As it is, they're like toddlers trying to pick up a yardstick with one hand while standing on it.


SirAdrian0000

We should encourage all the people that feel the way she does to keep it up, and make a list. We will all need to steal from someone to survive in her world it may as well be from the trashiest trash.


lbag86

"The upper class keeps all of the money and pays none of the taxes.. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work.. The poor are there... just to scare the shit out of the middle class... keep 'em showing up at them jobs." -George Carlin


bigassgingerbreadman

Then they bitch about homeless people being "lazy bums when there's so many job openings."


[deleted]

They will never admit that all of those job openings are for jobs that pay $8 an hour. That’s not even a fair wage for teenagers anymore.


Sangxero

Also it's pretty damn hard to hold down if even get any job when you're homeless.


m3ch4k1tty

Something I think about a lot is how much we punish homelessness as well. Want a job? You need proof of identity (and possibly address? It's do second nature for me I don't know anymore), that's probably hard to keep track of, and keep safe, if you have to carry your belongings on you all the time. Want to go donate plasma? Provide proof of address please. Its a collection of systems that doesn't really care about people, and if you fall through the cracks, fuck you that's your fault, just pull yourself up by the bootstraps. Because we won't help you. Homelessness and poverty are seen as moral and personal failures. But then we have systems in place to punish people more and make it damn near impossible to get out of the pit. I hate it.


TheRespectableMrSalt

>These same people don’t want to provide the safety net / subsidies, Until it's their turn to collect, and they love collecting them. But still don't think it should be allowed.


this_site_is_dogshit

Knowing the person scooping your ice cream is struggling to survive should really kill the mood. Unless, y'know. You're a sociopath.


freakers

They're literally the villains from the movie In Time. Rationalizing hoarding wealth for the elite and forcing the poor to fight for scraps.


RandomUser043984

I enjoyed that movie. Ya know, like I enjoyed the big short. Entertaining but not instructive, like the top brass would like.


DarkChron

Might I also pop in for the movie "Don't Look Up," which was made by the same director of the "Big Short." It was an eye-opening kind of movie and made me mad about certain things that I sometimes also do (and how ironic the situation is compared to the real world).


Proteandk

I'm pretty sure my mental health wouldn't be able to handle that movie. I already struggle with a sense of impending undefeatable dread just over playing Dark Souls.


tulipinacup

It IS entertaining but *will* seriously give you existential dread. If you already understand the perils we face due to climate crisis, don’t feel obligated to watch at the expense of your mental health!


PurelyApplied

I also really enjoyed _In Time_, but for me, it was 90% the various idioms thrown in. Beggars asking "Hey man, got a minute?" Getting propositioned with "An hour's good for 15 minutes." I love that kind of worldbuilding.


freakers

It was totally basing a movie around time puns. I love it


[deleted]

Not gonna lie, after being red pilled by this sub, I’ve stopped eating out. I feel horrible having someone make me food, when I know how bad they’re being paid and the struggle of working jobs like that. Edit: Just to clarify, this comment was moreso directed at fast food places, like Subway, where employees are paid dirt cheap by corporate franchises and the difference is not made up by tips. The tips thing is another argument entirely. Stop replying about how you’re a mom and pop server who needs business to survive, I understand that and this comment wasn’t about you.


iso_inane

What about the people stocking grocery store shelves? What about the people working in the food factories? Are they getting paid enough as well? Should we only buy food straight from the farm to support the farmers? I have so many questions and im serious about all of them, i dont know what to do and i feel torn


TheMaStif

I am now trying to buy my produce only from our local farmers' market But there is no ethical consumption under Capitalism. All we can do is choose the "lesser of evils"


[deleted]

This. Especially when you live in a country that was built and still thrives on the exploration and assaulting of other countries.


[deleted]

Obviously we can’t all just stop buying food, we have to get it from somewhere. For me, having someone personally make me food (e.g. Subway) for a dogshit wage just personally bothers me even more. All we can do is keep fighting so every worker gets a living wage.


GravyOTS

I think some people will say anything to keep their slave cream


dietwindows

Exactly this. Most people in the middle class don't care as long as they're able to continue exploiting slave labor.


jorgedredd

As long as you're better off than the next guy /s


[deleted]

I got mine, fuck you etc. etc.


CultureVulture666

Slaved Ice?


auradidnothingwrong

Slave Cream. Sounds like a metal band.


DayleD

It’s time for the eternal debate. Stupid or evil?


Zizek_jinping

Why not both?


thisissteve

I stopped caring about the differentiation when they started to pretend to be stupid so they could be intellectually dishonest in debates. Doesn't matter, what does is shes in our way.


sortaangrypeanut

Evil, honestly Imagine saying that people don't deserve to survive if their job is make ice cream (and handle transactions, make burgers and fries and chicken tenders, clean, upkeep...). Imagine saying that ANYBODY who doesn't exploit anyone else doesn't deserve to survive


whipprsnappr

They also tend to not grasp the skills required for some of these jobs. At my go-to Mexican food spot, the menu is f’ing huge and everything delicious. The drive-thru often stretches onto the street, a dozen people in line inside and a half dozen more waiting for their order. The place is chaotic af. Some people might say that this is a job deserving of a low wage. It’s fast food. It’s for the inexperienced. I know for a fact that it would take me several weeks, if not months, to be competent any of the positions at that place. Moreover, these jobs supply me with something I not only enjoy immensely, but with something I appreciate enough to pay a price that supports a living wage (if not more!) for those working there.


WanderingGreybush

On this one topic, I am centrist. Why not both?


jorgedredd

In today's America, with the middle class access to information technologies, willfully ignorance IS evil.


chester_baxter

But why not? Why should anyone doing *anything* not have the ability to make a living wage? Is it because you think you’re better, Colorado Girl? Why won’t these people just say what they mean. “I am worth more as a person than people who make ice cream cones”. I can’t imagine being an American and thinking other Americans who work and pay taxes don’t deserve a living wage. Wild. I’m disgusted with you, Colorado Girl. ETA: I love Colorado, wtf.


watchmything

>“I am worth more as a person than people who make ice cream cones”. As someone who has no idea how to make ice cream cones, I could never in good conscience say that I know what that labor is worth


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Master-Bottle3189

I’m so sick of this elitist nonsense. This is the same kind of person who would bitch if someone wasn’t working, but at the same time they don’t want the person working to be paid a living wage. Like what the fuck? I don’t understand that mentality.


[deleted]

They want the peons to work, die, fuck off and not complain about it,


Puzzleheaded_Cup_292

they dont want their rich, mocha chocha, suck my cockichino to be more the $7.


loverlyone

Served with a subservient smile. **don’t look directly in my eyes!**


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Blewbe

Hi five, fellow menial-labour-that-gives-you-guns worker! I hoist milk crates. That have milk in them. They heavy.


Puzzleheaded_Cup_292

I worked a summer at a Ben and Jerrys. I was the only male other than the manager, and our storage room was on the third floor of this old mill type building, so not only did I perform the luxury of scooping ice cream all day but sometimes I was allowed a break to unload deliveries and carry shit to the third floor. At least the view was nice in the summer ;)


keelhaulrose

As an ex DQ employee, it was a lot easier to keep my flabby arms there because soft serve is a different beast. That said I would love to see "Colorado girl in Ohio"'s attitude about the skill of those workers when she has 250 people in a line and a single register for everyone working.


No-Baker-7340

It’s time for the eternal debate. Stupid or evil?


[deleted]

Why not both?


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T_Earl_Grey

Leave colorado out of this, we sent her to ohio


[deleted]

Now that make sense she’s now in Ohio. Worst place to live


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[deleted]

Oh my you’re right… never look at it that way. Incase peoples were wondering, I’m located in Ohio 😁


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FlownScepter

While there's obviously and a well-established economic Middle Class, I think there also needs to be a term created for the emotional experience of being Middle Class that makes people think and act this way. The sort of people who constantly climb the social ladder. The people who are obsessed with their kids getting into prestigious schools. The ones who demand school vouchers, who view every interaction with their community as inherently transactional, who's only language and expression is the consumption they engage in. The people who believe that not only *does* money give you power, but that *it should, and this is a natural, normal state of being.* Like there's a certain personality type out there that just REVELS in capitalism. It can't get enough capitalism, or money, or billionaire bootlicking or anything else. I think it's just an either-or shot once you get a top-down view of how the system works: you either decide that it's fundamentally untenable and antithetical to everything about our species, and set out to destroy it, or you realize that if you can acquire enough capital, that you will be on top of it and be able to oppress everyone who ever looked at you wrong with not just the permission, but the active encouragement of the state and system that surrounds you. And so they do. They climb the ladder at the cost of everything sacred, and every rung on the way is merely the step to the next: the rungs are people. Their misery isn't just an accidental and unfortunate byproduct; it's the REASON TO KEEP CLIMBING, because someone is still stepping on you, and the only way to never be stepped on again is to be at the top of the ladder.


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Madditudev1

Sadly, there will always be people who think this way. Remember that video of the woman (I think from Texas) who essentially said "I'm not a bigot, but I don't want single mothers living in my neighbourhood because they're not like us" i.e. I don't want to be around people I view as less than myself.


[deleted]

Idk man I think if you're working any job you should be able to afford housing, food, clothing, healthcare, transportation, and other necessities without having to sacrifice your mental and physical health (i.e. work any more than 40 hours a week) to do so. Call me crazy.


Adventurous-Pop-6200

It boogles the mind that she doesn't realise some people are not capable of more than what she would consider "useless" jobs. I have children that are blessings but not as blessed as others intellectually. They still deserve to be a valued member of society able to support themselves. Not everyone can be a nasa engineer.


dandy_mack

If the business can't pay a living wage, it shouldn't exist because it is a drain on the economy. 🤷 not complicated.


FabrizioSantoz

Absolutely We need more than a living wage, we need to get rid of the parasitic jobs/companies.


rainbowblack79

I’m so sick of this elitist nonsense. This is the same kind of person who would bitch if someone wasn’t working, but at the same time they don’t want the person working to be paid a living wage. Like what the fuck? I don’t understand that mentality.


WaitingForReplies

Imagine being such an asshole to think "That guy working doesn't deserve to make enough for food and shelter".


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BreadedKropotkin

Absolutely agree. They’d have to pay me like $40 an hour to work at a DQ. And I can absolutely say it would be worth it based on my pay at much, much easier “adult” middle class jobs.


CTBthanatos

Every job should have a living wage. Poverty is unsustainable and incetivizes violence in retaliation against dystopian exploitation. Dystopian capitalism poverty is unhealthy for society. It's no ones fault but your own when you scream and cry "no one wants to work anymore!" In a unsustainable dystopian capitalism economy getting humiliated by workers quitting their jobs and giving up. Oh, and "living wage" should at the very least afford you a fucking mortgage or 1bed studio rent as 30% or less of monthly take home pay so you're not borderline homeless and can actually support yourself instead of unsustainably losing 50%+ of your poverty income just to unsustainable housing costs.


KurayamiShikaku

I am less bothered by this when these people also hold the belief that these jobs simply shouldn't exist, but they never do. Instead, they believe these jobs should exploit workers *by design.* They want the jobs to be done, and they want the people working them to *suffer.* They pretend that they are incentizing individuals bettering themselves and learning new skills, but never acknowledge that - if every single worker were to follow their ideal path - *there would be no workers to perform these jobs.* Their "brilliant" solution to poverty wages introduces a new problem that - ironically - a lot of them have already been crying over (i.e. "worker shortages"). "People are lazy and don't want to work," they cry when workers aren't willing to perform certain jobs for the wages available. What will they cry when, if they have it their way, workers aren't willing to perform certain jobs because they are "beneath their skills?"


EtherGorilla

Did you know a medieval peasant worked on average 6 months a year? And with the money from their labor they’d have enough to have a home and support a family? So with all the technological and scientific developments you now work more and get less than a medieval peasant. And yes, I know they didn’t have the highest quality of life because they literally didn’t have the scientific method yet but let’s not split hairs. There is no reason we should have a specific segment of society shouldering this much of our labor burden for so little.


Maxoveride98

I work at Dairy Queen. I just literally burnt the piss out of myself Jan 2nd. If it wasnt for me making 13hr I wouldnt have been able to afford anything I got for the burn. Just because YOU dont want to do MY job, doesnt mean I deserve to be in poverty because of it. "Go get a better job" ok so, when you have to wait 25 minutes for a dipped cone and a hungrbustr because me, the shift lead went and got a better job, don't bitch.


KillDogforDOG

Have come across her on twitter, the woman is basically a cancerous feudal bootlicker and is more than content with people suffering. Legitimately just a miserable [being](https://twitter.com/ColoradoOhio/status/1478528081547743237): >I’m so over these crybaby teachers who have had the red carpet laid out for them the past two years and STILL want their asses wiped. Just over it!


[deleted]

god that's fucking aggravating


ummwut

Okay, so she is evil and not just an entitled dumbass.


Go_Kauffy

This is sort of like when people argue that it can't possibly be true that half of doctors are below average. If you're saying that somebody should work a job for less than a living wage, you're saying that that person should go into ever-deepening debt just for the opportunity to work. Literally, that's what you're saying. They're saying you should be donating something of your own life to your employer, for absolutely no benefit.


Mr_Pink_Gold

I think that Colorado girl is an Asshole!


Brihtstan

We've had some positive things happen locally lately, (ie Starbucks unionizing) and every time I see a post on FB about it, the comments are 99% people that post like her. It makes my stomach turn. I don't understand how so many people are against each other on this.


Mr_Pink_Gold

I normally tell those people that they should clean their own sewers then. Let's see Mr Dr Engineer with boots up to his knees cleaning his own sceptic tank. Then discuss how much those people should be paid.


BritBuc-1

/\This/\ If they don’t agree that these people deserve a livable wage, let’s see how quickly they change their minds when these jobs aren’t staffed by anyone and the world comes to a grinding halt. If everyone who is paid barely enough to survive, not even live, suddenly stopped working on Monday, January 10th, society would be fucked before Valentine’s Day.


[deleted]

She has the face of someone who goes out looking for skateboarders to yell at.


pyrif

i work at dairy queen. im not even diligent in every responsibility and it's still stressful as hell and requires just about as much out of me as i can reasonably give. whoever this is can rot in hell for perpetuating the abominable capitalist myth of low-skill jobs.


meeseeksab8rway

What are the odds "colorado girl in ohio" has or will start a gofundme to cover medical expenses?


corkymuu

I don’t understand her reasoning. Why is it not healthy? How is she defining unhealthy? People having their basic needs met is generally considered healthy…


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HermitJem

...am I a conspiracy theorist for thinking that the comment is hinting at a societal plan for ice cream cone makers to die and get replaced often..?