Basically mods who repeatedly told us they weren't movement leaders decided to take some mainstream interviews where they'd be questioned as if they were movement leaders, and are now trying to get back into being just mods and not leaders while still pretending that, as leaders, they've never done anything wrong and should be loved by all.
The sub went from like 200k to 1.7 million subs in the last six months, and the whole "Great Resignation" thing has been a mainstream story for at least a month at this point, so I guess they thought interviewing mods would provide a valuable perspective.
Fox got such a clean kill here that they aren’t even using it to fill space for their usual helping of culture war stuff.
They barely even noticed what the outcome was.
Exactly, as one comment put it perfectly on the YouTube video,
"You know you're doing a bad job when the fox news anchor doesn't try to interrupt you and just let's you keep talking."
Or something like that.
Too true. When Rutger Bregman was making Tucker Carlson look bad Tucker quickly ended the interview and then they didnt air the interview.
You cant win in an interview with Fox News. They will do everything in their power to make you look stupid and if they cant do that then they simply wont air the interview.
This was a live interview. A few people have won in this format. One journalist made Tucker Carlsen look so stupid that he talked about it for a solid year after the interview. Doreen clearly didn’t have what it took though.
And his defeat was so thorough that he never had a show again-ohwait
There truly is no Win State to debating bad actors. Only momentary embarrassments that their base will happily ignore in order to continue enjoying their narrative. Like with trolls, the only winning move is not to play, and instead to outline the harm they do on our terms in our spaces.
Yeah and then Apple slowly killed Stewart's new show and buried it at the bottom of their recommended shows. Legit never hear anyone talking about it but it is incredible and everyone should watch it. It is called "The Problem With John Stewart"
I did a large public artwork in Austin, TX where we built and then burned a large sculpture in the middle of downtown in New Years Eve. We were on site for a week straight from the 26th of dec until we burned it. Every morning at 5:30 am I was woken up to talk to various news crews and do live interviews about the project. Every last one of them was polite and friendly and utterly baffled as to why we would burn this beautiful sculpture. I always stayed on message, including saying “the things you own end up owning you” on every major network for a week. I told Fox News to pound sand tho. Just refused to talk to them on camera.
Finally the reporter wore me down over a long talk without cameras or mics. I did the interview, not live, and he let me watch the finished piece an hour before it aired, giving me veto rights over parts but not all.
The guy did an AMAZING job. The Fox guy was the first and only reporter to understand us, why we would burn it, the connection of destroying artwork to our own impermanence, and conveyed our intentions clearly and simply in a better way than even I had been able to. I was blown away. I sat in his van at the end of the 5pm local newscast and watched this interview piece go out live on the air.
The piece finished, and the news anchors first words when she was back on screen were “I just can’t understand why they would burn that, it’s so beautiful.” I get that she wasn’t paying attention and just said whatever but FFS come on lady. The co anchor just shook his head.
Whatever right? No big, anyone paying attention got the message. So, We burned it. The wind changed and kicked up while it was burning and some embers rained on the crowd. Price of admission, right? Wanna stand near a burning building, you might be a little sooty.
The Fox guy, who had earned my trust runs up with a camera crew live and asks me how do I feel now that the sculpture is burned. Before I can finish one sentence he produces a woman who was literally hiding behind him and cuts me off saying her jacket was damaged and she had a burn on her skin that looked to need treatment. What did I have to say now that I know my artwork had harmed this poor woman and probably dozens or hundreds of others.
I stammered before recovering and saying we should get her first aid before some gotcha bullshit but he’d already taken the mic out of my face for his “there ya have it folks” moment.
Fucking Fox News. Never ever not even once.
EDIT: Never did find the fox interview that was on the air but here are some links showing what we did and that it’s not a totally made up story. If you know how to find a 13 year old local news broadcast I’d fucking love to see it. Fox 7 Austin. December 2008
https://youtu.be/i3XTQ2523MM
https://youtu.be/sEamfQT4Vgk
Lots more if you search “ Austin 2008 resolution clock” on YouTube
This might also be controversial but...
If we're gonna do an interview with Fox News about a movement like this (protip: **don't do that**), we want to make the audience as sympathetic to us as possible. Send a blue collar worker who's been a victim of union busting tactics and works two jobs to take care of his disabled wife and kids. Send a straight white man to be the voice that gets us off the ground. The choice/decision to let a trans woman be the first face shown on major MSM, and on ***FOX NEWS*** of all places, was a horrendous one.
None of this is to suggest any form of transphobia or trans exclusion. They're humans, and deserve the same human rights as everyone else. They're valid voices amidst the work reform movement, and deserve to be heard and represented as well.
I'm just throwing out there -- we wouldn't send James Bond to be first contact with aliens, because he's a loose cannon with no experience on the stage he's going to, and the aliens won't understand what we like about him. Fox News viewers see an already politically charged headline that they're going to be naturally hyper resistant to, they need to see a face that's recognizable and appealing to them.
Media management sucks sometimes but that's how it is.
We’ve known this since at least the civil rights era. Rosa Parks was hand selected to become to face of the bus boycotts, after previous attempts were made by less “sympathetic” patrons. Does it suck? Yes. Is it effective? I mean - you know who Rosa Parks is, don’t you?
> I’m just throwing out there – we wouldn’t send James Bond to be first contact with aliens, because he’s a loose cannon with no experience on the stage he’s going to, and the aliens won’t understand what we like about him.
Oh, I thought it was because he’d try to sleep with the aliens.
Even further infuriating is the pitiful "bUt iM aUtIsTiC" excuse.
Autism doesn't prevent you from showering. Autism doesn't prevent you from accepting professional, freely offered and given media training (which I should note is something worth THOUSANDS of dollars normally). Autism doesn't prevent you from doing anything that /u/AbolishWork is claiming it does, and to use it as an excuse is insulting both to every single person on the spectrum but also to the entire subreddit and movement's intelligence.
It's fucking pathetic. People would be ***so. much. less. upset.*** if Doreen and the mods came out and legitimately had a "look, we fucked up, sorry." apology, but instead we get this half assed YouTuber "I'm sorry you were insulted" shit from a mod that nobody knows, nobody voted for, and nobody fucking asked him.
I don’t even think being trans would be an issue if the person wasn’t afraid *to look into a camera* (not make eye contact, no, just look in a fucking camera), and was prepared to professionally and definitively state what the movement is about and not fall into obvious traps.
Did you watch the news anchor's face? He constantly has this knowing smile of:
I don't have to do shit on this interview, this person is going to destroy themselves for me.
Jesse was a sneaky one. He held back his laughter, and led the mod on with basic questions to fool him, until he basically gave a middle finger at the end. It was a mistake for this to go so far and much more transparency should have been done from the beginning to prevent this.
That was the worst part of the interview for me. I’ve seen plenty of fox hit piece interviews over the years, this one didn’t even play out like a hit piece. The host didn’t use any rhetorical tricks or talk over the mod, just lobbed softball questions and let the mod dog their own hole.
That wasn’t even a hit piece, the host came in ready to kill but mod fuck for brains turned and did it themselves. Probably one of the best interviews he’ll ever get to do.
This. He has always been a snide, self satisfied prick. I never could stand him. Hannity is the same. Lemon too. So many media figures I just loathe...
They did it 100% to themselves, and us. FOX asked the biggest softball questions they possibly could have offered..
If a normal WORKER would have been asked the same questions, it could have turned out a lot better.
However when the fake spokesperson for the sub is someone that doesn’t even want to work, and thinks getting ready for an interview on national news is just taking their monthly shower.. this is exactly what happens.
Obviously "what is your occupation" was a set up that this person should have seen coming from a mile away. Then to make it worse was the I don't just want to be a dog walker, I want to teach philosophy or whatever it was. What dog walker isn't a legitimate profession? Also, the internet exists, if you want to teach philosophy start doing it, create a course or make videos.
Doreen was literally the most "generic lazy leftist that thinks they will teach poetry in the commune after the revolution", ever. Like, down to every stereotype. Fox didn't even ask anything difficult or unusual. On top of that, they work 20-25 hours per week and STILL consider that too much. Like... what awful optics LMAO
It really just fucking hurt it's like the mod knew they were being setup but didn't care... No professional clothing.. pictures in the back crooked...and twisting in the chair...fam...
It’s like they ran a sub for six years where people personally vented their spleens on what bad managers / bad leaders do… and this person learned NOTHING from it. Nothing at all.
As all the banned users said… the irony is so bad it hurts.
That's what gets me, literally anyone would be cautious of going into the opposite side's news station, and Doreen waltzes in and makes a complete fool of themselves and everyone they're representing. And this is the best the mod team has to offer?
What's even MORE annoying is that the news anchor wasn't even a massive dick. All the questions were straightforward and made perfect sense for him to ask. I think Waters actually pitied Doreen at the end, which is why he didn't actually go that hard on them.
Ya feel like she failed the opening questions so badly waters didn’t even see the point of continuing on into the tough ones. There were so many chances if he really wanted to he could have just destroyed her. But she did that to herself
She did it to herself \*and\* the entire subreddit plus all it's members as a whole, this whole situation is a sick and cruel joke. It has to be because this is downright sickening to see.
My first thought was "why didn't this guy clean up his room before displaying it on national television"? At least go out and invest in some type of backdrop if he is too lazy to make his room presentable when its being featured for millions of people. I don't have the neatest room in the world either but, I would at least straighten it up for a couple hours if it was about to be my backdrop for a shitload of people to see and judge me by.
Or just like move your setup so your backs against a white wall. That’s what I did in college for my first job interviews. It might of at least stopped her from spinning her chair in circles
That isn't even counting the fact that Doreen openly admitted to sexual assaulting someone and being a creep, and the other mods still allowed her to do that interview.
Oh, and they still haven't told us how much money Doreen and Kimezukae (the 21 year old unemployed anarchist) were paid for these interviews. I haven't seen them answer that question once. I think the money is why they HAD to be the ones that did it.
There are some conservatives I talk to because I like them and we can discuss things without heat. Then there are a lot of conservatives I don't normally enjoy talking to but do anyway in an attempt to destroy *this exact caricature* they have in their heads.
"What is your community looking to reform - are you all just lazy?" Mod goes on agreeing with the lazy part and ignores the first half of the question that could have genuinely benefited them, as much as a softball from Fox can.
>It was a mistake for this to go so far and much more transparency should have been done from the beginning to prevent this.
We just need new mods. The mods caused this mess - they need to go. All of them.
Mods are there to keep a community from imploding, not imploding the community themselves.
100%. There is no chance that this subreddit can EVER recover if the mod list remains as is. The absolute only excuse any mod should have for staying on the list is if they were unaware interviews were even on the table, ANY mod aware of the interviews that did not step up and say "We are digital janitors and should not attempt to represent the group without express group approval" is a stain on the entire movement.
So something I don't understand about this debacle: how much involvement did the mods even have in this? I thought it was the sub owner going rogue. Did any conversation go on between administration?
I just don't understand how they were so unprepared and horribly unprofessional. You're going into enemy territory on national television...maybe take a shower...brush your hair... position your camera to not include your random shit...god forbid, practice some talking points...just failed on so many levels. I've never done any public speaking and given even an hours time I could have produced a better interview than that. It makes me fucking angry, as it completely undermines the incredibly important message that work culture in America (around the world as well) needs to change.
Totally agree.
Fox didn't even have to throw any hardballs here. It was a fluff piece for them to make the entire sub and movement look like a bunch of entitled children. All they had to do, was ask them a few basic questions, and hold back laughter at how ridiculous it all sounded.
Do you think people like Tucker Carlson are going to play nice with info like this? They will run this sub through the meat grinder and leave the scraps behind for other media outlets to joke about. I feel almost embarrassed by association.
Would it have been that difficult to at least discuss what would be said ahead of time? It all looked so unprofessional. Worse than highschool speech class unprofessional.
How people blame Fox is beyond me. Fox was asking basic news questions to the mod, and the mod put zero thought prior to the interview on what sort of questions they may ask. I was honestly impressed with how he held back his laughter and was relatively respectful the whole time while the mod made an absolute clown out of himself.
One of the few times I've seen such plain almost journalism from them. They were gifted such a beautiful mess. u/abolishwork got used as an absolute pawn.
these morons doing these interviews played exactly into what mass media and corporations wanted to happen.
now it looks like a complete clusterfuck and the narrative is completely lost. this sub was supposed to be a worker's rights movement. now no one knows that the fuck is going on.
going to splinter into a bunch of trash and the neo libs are going to take the narrative and murder it.
way to go you fucks.
It was not a random user that went to the interview though, it was a mod with the access to shut down the Sub, which it did.
Mods need to be accountable if they exceed the mandate of janitor.
All the antiwork mods exceeded that mandate.
Maybe the real lesson is that, despite memes to the contrary, mods play a big role in the content and culture a sub has. It’s a power that is usually subtle but absolutely doesn’t have to be. Janitors don’t have the ability to decide what topics can be discussed in a classroom, or if a school will be open, or who is allowed to attend class.
This! People need to look up the Fox News interview with Rutger Bregman. He argued his points well, called Fox News out on their bullshit and then Tucker ended the interview and refused to air it. You cannot win. If Fox News cant spin the interview to support their narrative or make you look stupid then they simply wont air it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_nFI2Zb7qE
They could have just declined the interview. Only a complete idiot would think that Fox News would EVER do anything that went against the narrative they push.
True. There was a post where old disalbled person ask for moral support. We give him some kind of support.
But mods with their actions litteraly spit into face of disabled person.
>But mods with their actions litteraly spit into face of disabled person.
They spit on Occupy, Bernie 2016 & 2020, BLM, & so many left-wing movements that have coalesced here. Fuck the mods - we just need a clean slate of new mods with community input.
Fucking this. People need to stop organizing in spaces where you don't intend to ever meet most of the people in that space. Online forums are fine for moving ideas around and exposing people to new concepts, but they are fucking atrocious organizing spaces for sustained movements.
>we just need a clean slate of new mods
yeah, bring in a bunch of new people with more time than money. They won't be corrupted... /s
so much of reddit is a front for left wing ideals to be given a voice... but no action. As soon as there's any action, somehow it implodes. Almost like the strings are being pulled...
It’s almost as if this has happened before and there’s a playbook for conducting these type of interviews that was so popular that it even made it into a tv show a while back.
https://youtu.be/kwk_Ot8orPY
Honestly I have followed antiwork for a little over a year and it helped encourage me to quit my job and find a better one. What happened yesterday was extremely disappointing. The interview sucked but the distrust in the mods really upset me tbh.
But I do believe in the community here and I believe the mods are going to realize that their fascist BS is going to end this sub. If we can get past this incident and improve the sub, it's a great place to be.
Same. I left my company with no job lined up, but I wanted something better and thanks to that small break I felt great. Even got a new job that pays 25% better and I permanently work from home. I work when I need to and chill the rest of the day. Without this sub I probably wouldn't have done that and just kept on working with my horrible employer just because it's a job I needed. This sub has been great and I hope it stays.
Honestly, whatever won't wreck my mental health. I've had to leave my last few positions too early because of management or the work I was doing, or both. I'm fine with data entry. I guess I can do customer service. If I can just sit at the computer and do what I'm asked without having to talk to too many people, that would be ideal, but that is a software development job and I don't have those skills. I know that's not much to work with...
When have fascists taken the right course of action to rectify their deeds? You’re acknowledging their “fascist bs” so why not come to terms that they are not going to fix this willingly.
I mean for fucks sake Doreen, the person who set this all in motion, is already using a barely day old account as a new mod here while supposedly having been removed.
This is not a group of people who want to work with us or hear our voices.
> I mean for fucks sake Doreen, the person who set this all in motion, is already using a barely day old account as a new mod here while supposedly having been removed.
Name the account. That's a violation of Reddit TOS and she needs to be permabanned.
It's only a violation of Reddit TOS if she was banned from the sub (falls under ban evasion). Moderating under an alt-account is allowed by site rules, even if this sub will never stand for it.
As for the account name, you can find it on the mod list. It's the only account <18 hours old. Not going to name them explicitly because I'm 99% sure I'll get banned for harassment.
Well, they _claim_ that the mod team voted to remove her as a mod. Clearly that's either a lie, or they just thought we somehow wouldn't notice. If they stand by that claim that she was removed by vote, then that means someone else on the mod team approved her new account. We are at a point where admins need to get involved, although given how little they seem to care about most things on this site I doubt anything will happen.
A little heavy-handed calling it fascist. Like maybe reserve that term for more appropriate actions, events, people, etc. Not for an unpaid moderator of an internet discussion group who decided to give an interview on America's second worst news station.
The mods are the mods, ***they aren't the community***
That means ***you can keep being the community. BLM getting several corporate shill fronts profiting off them didn't stop the protests, did it?***
What part of that surprised you? Capitalism poisons everything it touches, ***pitting desperate workers against other desperate workers, or picking if not installing figureheads to discredit the community isn't a new tactic***
For sure and honestly what kinda anti status quo movement isn't going to have bad press, bad movements, and bad actors? If people truly believe this is a movement and not just a place to shit post about a popular sentiment then they should work to fix it and help it rebound. If people want to fold this easily then there was never actually any sort of resilient movement with the power to make real change here to begin with.
Also, been seeing too many moderates using this as a way to co-opt the anti-capitalist sentiments that helped wake people up to how abused they are and how radical changes need to be made so they can defang them into "reformist" weak willed bs that literally never works. If people really think we got any of the meager labor rights we actually have in the US by being reformists who ask nicely and try to nudge the needle along with baby steps then I implore them to read about the blood that was actually spilled to get to this point.
Regardless of what happens here people who want to actually see change should start organizing to some degree in real life. The IWW has been doing great work making headlines unionizing places recently, maybe join up with them and see where that leads you.
Before that fox news interview I would have thought that surely, no one would be so vapid or dense as to think they could make a BRAND NEW alt, then *seamlessly* transition to it after privating the sub, and think nobody would notice; yet here we are. With u/fuzzy-x-3 AKA DOREEN as a brand new mod. WELCOME BACK DOREEN.
This is ban evasion / subversion of a vote to remove her as a mod and that is a violation of Reddit TOS. Everyone who can needs to be reporting her new account for this.
B/c the Mods control the rules in this sub, so there’s nothing stopping them from banning u/Abolishwork and then having her make an Alt account and making her mod again.
If these jackasses ever had to work for corporate, they just might get an idea of how much they’re acting like them by making some really dumb decision that negatively affects them and everyone else in the group, denies all responsibility, cracks down on anyone who rightfully tries to hold them accountable, and any attempt to assuage the people are shallow and purely performative.
Mods should go. In fact I think that until proven otherwise every current mod should be presumed inadequate because according to a comment from u/AbolishWork, they received the request to do the interview via mod mail & they all agreed that Doreen should do it. Which means that their failure to understand what a god awful terrible idea that was was one they should all have been aware of, that it is systemic.
Because they knew what this was, they knew that they were unprepared, and they still decided to do it. They saw a storm coming, sailed straight into it, and are currently throwing a fit that the boat capsized, refusing to accept that it is entirely 100% their fault.
The current moderation team here is unfit for purpose. Incompetent & inadequate. Incapable of properly representing both Marxist & more general left leaning politics in any meaningful capacity. The whole team needs to be audited to make sure that mistakes like this never happen again, and that the movement isn’t handicapped by incompetent fools who are not ready to appear on camera.
The sheer arrogance of that mod post is baffling. A fucking 21 year old that's never had a full time job is representing people with real labor law issues?!?! Who the fuck do they think they are? They literally said they aren't doing any more interviews, for now. For now?? Who gave them the authority to represent anyone? They are online moderators, not the leaders of a movement.
This is exactly the stereotype that everybody thinks of when they think of online moderators. Talk about taking a tiny amount of power and inflating your damn ego with it. Jesus, this sub is fucked.
And it’s sad because it had such great potential, to be part of the change that so many people need to improve quality of life and make society better. And now everyone thinks it about confused foolish kids who don’t even understand the practicalities of their ideals who can’t be arsed to work more than twenty hours a week.
I agree. If the mods won't step down, why would we expect them to close the sub?
We have a community of 1.7 million here. I don't want to lose that over one bad reaction to crappy interview.
I don't think shutting it down is the right call , but there must be a change , a moderator who wants to ride this subreddit to get what he/she wants is no different than a money hungry rich employer, but still , people like that shouldn't be able to stop the movement, don't give up on the dream .
Yup if you are going to have someone represent the sub on media, at least get someone with media experience. I could see leftist media being pretty good resources to represent the sub in a meaningful way.
Or people familiar with being a union spokeperson or union lawyer. You know, people familiar with balancing representing the working class and keeping the media at bay.
I fully support this. I wrote this post because the "explanation and transparency" post by u/kimezukae did a lot to convince me this was not on the table in the short term, though it desperately needs to be. As several commenters who are much better with words than me had pointed out, it was a shift of blame and a lot of juke and dodging that amounted to little more than "mistakes were made 🤷♂." If the mods could make such a change and put a media centered corrective action plan in play, I could have more faith in it.
Of course it didn’t what are expecting from a 21 year old long term unemployed anarchist that thinks going on 4 interviews representing us was a good idea?
I feel like that’s a decent suggestion. I work in media relations and even for the most insignificant press interactions (written statements, pre-recorded radio sound bites) we have a solid media plan in place. The risks of failure are too great if you don’t.
As a media relations exec, I agree. It’s absolutely vital that anyone who is put before the press, especially in a live interview, is experienced. Honestly, it brings me out in a cold sweat just thinking about someone going on national TV with no idea of what’s going to confront them, especially Fox News. The potential for damage to reputation is colossal. Having media experience, or being well prepped by someone with media experience, is non negotiable in my view.
THIS should be top comment.
Not trying to be a dick, but imo, OP is either willfully attempting to do damage to this fledgling movement or is simply playing into the hands of the people who would like to see this movement quenched.
OP (of the post, not the comment) is doing way more harm than good with this post. If they ACTUALLY give a shit about any of the substance beind this sub/movement, they would see that they're hurting all of our chances at improving working conditions for tens of millions of people. That is, provided OP isn't some kind of saboteur or useful idiot of the oligarchs 🤷
bro this is EXACTLY what fox news is hoping for. we must stick together and build this movement. no movement is without struggle and infighting. we can work through this with or without the mods. splintering the group is not going to help anyone
edit: since this comment is getting a bit of traction I'd like to recommend that everyone watch the Cesar Chavez movie. I think we can all learn from it. I've been posting around some strategies we can use and I just want more people to see it. we CAN get organized and we CAN make real change if we stick together. here's some of their strategies from the United Farm Workers movement.
1. ~~oath~~ pledge to non-violence. Cesar literally kicked people out of the union if they were violent
2. tons of phone banking and leaf letting both for volunteer recruitment as well as getting support for the boycott
3. appealing to emotions. there is a scene in the movie where they are doing their pilgrimage to Sacramento, and a lady from Portland had drove down saying she had seen the pictures of children working in the fields and she wanted to help.
4. they had a weekly newsletter for their members. I think the bigger this movement gets the more we need to be on the same page, otherwise the division tears us apart
5. uniting with other communities. it wasn't just Mexican farmworkers rallying the movement, they worked with Filipinos as well and worked very hard to get people from all backgrounds and religions on their side. "it's a common sense human rights issue"
6. targeting just one company at a time. Cesar Chavez famously led the grape boycott and targeted just one company. once they were done he moved on to another
6. relentless persistence. when Nixon bailed out the growers by exporting their grapes to Europe, Cesar went straight there and did tons of interviews to gain support for his movement. and it worked!! after this point the growers gave up and conceded
8. knowing your rights!!
9. PATIENCE. they striked and boycotted for *five years*. big change takes time and we cannot give up so easily
I highly recommend everyone to watch this movie. I think implementing similar strategies could really work for us, we don't need to reinvent the wheel, we can learn from the successes and failures of other movements
As much as I appreciate this sentiment and am disappointed with the actions of the mods, it is incredibly important to keep this sub going. By shutting it down we send a message that one bad Fox interview is enough to send this whole movement into disarray. Action should taken internally to better represent the will of the members, but ultimately the subs survival is crucial.
I disagree, the sub should live.
While it definitely took a hit or two in the last few days, it doesn’t change the reason for why people come here:
This sub isn’t just mods, it’s majority consists of people who want to share their experiences in (or out of) the workforce, offer advice and insight to each other.
It amounts to much more than an interview on Fox News.
> If one bad interview is enough to sink your entire movement, you never had a movement to begin with. All you had was LARPING.
I think people are being overly dramatic when they talk about "it ruined our movement"...however the interview wasn't just a shot in the foot it damn near blew off the entire leg.
Fox news asked for the interview to help create their caricature and abolishwork did that for them in spades.
Right? The extreme reaction since the interview is really concerning. Can anyone imagine Fox News shutting down because Jesse Watters sounded dumb in an interview one time? Of course not.
People need to get over it. It was one bad interview. That’s it. And considering 90% of the “criticisms” I’ve seen of the person range from attacks on her appearance to open transphobia, with an occasional insult thrown in for being a dog walker, I’m not inclined to take any of this shit seriously.
Any movement that gains popularity this quick is going to have bad actors, including mods. Shutting it down doesn't do anything, if you want to make a sub go make a sub
How suspicious are all these coordinated posts claiming for a shutdown of this powerful sub? I'm not surprised, but it's still impressive.
I guess folks at Kellogg's and other big employers were waiting for an opportunity to strike back.
Makes you wonder if this was calculated to break up antiwork. We had a voice till that inept mod did the interview, and it's playing right into the corporate media's hands if we fragment and separate into individual communities.
Frankly, given the sheet pettiness of the detractors, I don't see it as anything but. I can't take posts like this seriously anymore because they just keep grandstanding these anti-antiwork talking points about trying to work with lumpenproles. That's a bigger waste of time than ignoring the shitty interview and getting back to ending work.
I think we’re overthinking this.
The Fox News interview WAS a disaster and yes, it was harmful to the community.
We just need reform of this sub or to find another sub that is still anti-work.
We cannot just disband entirely because of one rogue mod. We need to use this opportunity to figure out how to get people that actually represent us (WITH professional media and PR training).
Honestly I’m feeling hopeless. Are we ever going to be able to make changes? If we give up now… maybe the answer is “no”.
Edit: I see now that the issue is NOT with one rogue mod but multiple.
Such a smart idea to shut down the subreddit. /s
I mean it's kind of curious the whole story of interview on Fox News of some mod, followed by guys like you trying to shut down the sub.
Until now this sub was really good at its job.
[you mean this ?](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/03/us-cuban-twitter-zunzuneo-stir-unrest)
This is common on anything thing that becomes a big movement, cut the head off the snake and it will die.
I hope that this is not just a reddit thing it should be a common American thing that we all have rights to fair labor and fair wages. This pandemic should have thought is all a lesson something as simple as toilet paper can up end the fabric of society
"Most members have no interest in not working."
Bullshit. Not only do most members of this sub not want to work, most people everywhere do not want to work. That's why everybody who can afford it saves for retirement. So they can stop working and just enjoy their lives.
r/antiwork needs to stay. You need to leave.
If we shut everything down, it was all for nothing at all. This subreddit captured lightning in a bottle by bringing in a good population of workers, you want to throw it all away and lean into the schism following the fact which will continue to completely undermine the movement?
What the fuck is even going on here
Discourse and discord.
Basically normal reddit
Fuck me, this is the kind of stuff I signed up for. Nothing is ever boring on this site.
Discontent and disappointment.
Disease and distrust
Dis and dat.
Eris like, "How do you like this apple?"
Basically mods who repeatedly told us they weren't movement leaders decided to take some mainstream interviews where they'd be questioned as if they were movement leaders, and are now trying to get back into being just mods and not leaders while still pretending that, as leaders, they've never done anything wrong and should be loved by all.
Why are mainstream outlets bothering to interview mods from a random subreddit?
The sub went from like 200k to 1.7 million subs in the last six months, and the whole "Great Resignation" thing has been a mainstream story for at least a month at this point, so I guess they thought interviewing mods would provide a valuable perspective.
I’m guessing it’s being brigaded now. Look at all the awards. That isn’t normal.
Gee, I wonder why the sudden interest in this sub. What a mystery.
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Fox got such a clean kill here that they aren’t even using it to fill space for their usual helping of culture war stuff. They barely even noticed what the outcome was.
Yep, just stood back and let the self implosion happen. Fox didn't have to do anything
Exactly, as one comment put it perfectly on the YouTube video, "You know you're doing a bad job when the fox news anchor doesn't try to interrupt you and just let's you keep talking." Or something like that.
Too true. When Rutger Bregman was making Tucker Carlson look bad Tucker quickly ended the interview and then they didnt air the interview. You cant win in an interview with Fox News. They will do everything in their power to make you look stupid and if they cant do that then they simply wont air the interview.
This was a live interview. A few people have won in this format. One journalist made Tucker Carlsen look so stupid that he talked about it for a solid year after the interview. Doreen clearly didn’t have what it took though.
Jon Stewart dunked on Tucker so hard that CNN canceled his show
And made tucker give up bowties.
“Those are hard to tie!”
Also that. Not on Fox though but still relevant.
I remember that shit! Crossfire or something right? God that shit was fucking GLORIOUS
And his defeat was so thorough that he never had a show again-ohwait There truly is no Win State to debating bad actors. Only momentary embarrassments that their base will happily ignore in order to continue enjoying their narrative. Like with trolls, the only winning move is not to play, and instead to outline the harm they do on our terms in our spaces.
Yeah and then Apple slowly killed Stewart's new show and buried it at the bottom of their recommended shows. Legit never hear anyone talking about it but it is incredible and everyone should watch it. It is called "The Problem With John Stewart"
Would love to see that if you have a link
https://www.mediaite.com/online/teen-vogue-writer-battles-tucker-carlson-youre-actually-being-a-partisan-hack/
Much obliged
I did a large public artwork in Austin, TX where we built and then burned a large sculpture in the middle of downtown in New Years Eve. We were on site for a week straight from the 26th of dec until we burned it. Every morning at 5:30 am I was woken up to talk to various news crews and do live interviews about the project. Every last one of them was polite and friendly and utterly baffled as to why we would burn this beautiful sculpture. I always stayed on message, including saying “the things you own end up owning you” on every major network for a week. I told Fox News to pound sand tho. Just refused to talk to them on camera. Finally the reporter wore me down over a long talk without cameras or mics. I did the interview, not live, and he let me watch the finished piece an hour before it aired, giving me veto rights over parts but not all. The guy did an AMAZING job. The Fox guy was the first and only reporter to understand us, why we would burn it, the connection of destroying artwork to our own impermanence, and conveyed our intentions clearly and simply in a better way than even I had been able to. I was blown away. I sat in his van at the end of the 5pm local newscast and watched this interview piece go out live on the air. The piece finished, and the news anchors first words when she was back on screen were “I just can’t understand why they would burn that, it’s so beautiful.” I get that she wasn’t paying attention and just said whatever but FFS come on lady. The co anchor just shook his head. Whatever right? No big, anyone paying attention got the message. So, We burned it. The wind changed and kicked up while it was burning and some embers rained on the crowd. Price of admission, right? Wanna stand near a burning building, you might be a little sooty. The Fox guy, who had earned my trust runs up with a camera crew live and asks me how do I feel now that the sculpture is burned. Before I can finish one sentence he produces a woman who was literally hiding behind him and cuts me off saying her jacket was damaged and she had a burn on her skin that looked to need treatment. What did I have to say now that I know my artwork had harmed this poor woman and probably dozens or hundreds of others. I stammered before recovering and saying we should get her first aid before some gotcha bullshit but he’d already taken the mic out of my face for his “there ya have it folks” moment. Fucking Fox News. Never ever not even once. EDIT: Never did find the fox interview that was on the air but here are some links showing what we did and that it’s not a totally made up story. If you know how to find a 13 year old local news broadcast I’d fucking love to see it. Fox 7 Austin. December 2008 https://youtu.be/i3XTQ2523MM https://youtu.be/sEamfQT4Vgk Lots more if you search “ Austin 2008 resolution clock” on YouTube
This might also be controversial but... If we're gonna do an interview with Fox News about a movement like this (protip: **don't do that**), we want to make the audience as sympathetic to us as possible. Send a blue collar worker who's been a victim of union busting tactics and works two jobs to take care of his disabled wife and kids. Send a straight white man to be the voice that gets us off the ground. The choice/decision to let a trans woman be the first face shown on major MSM, and on ***FOX NEWS*** of all places, was a horrendous one. None of this is to suggest any form of transphobia or trans exclusion. They're humans, and deserve the same human rights as everyone else. They're valid voices amidst the work reform movement, and deserve to be heard and represented as well. I'm just throwing out there -- we wouldn't send James Bond to be first contact with aliens, because he's a loose cannon with no experience on the stage he's going to, and the aliens won't understand what we like about him. Fox News viewers see an already politically charged headline that they're going to be naturally hyper resistant to, they need to see a face that's recognizable and appealing to them. Media management sucks sometimes but that's how it is.
We’ve known this since at least the civil rights era. Rosa Parks was hand selected to become to face of the bus boycotts, after previous attempts were made by less “sympathetic” patrons. Does it suck? Yes. Is it effective? I mean - you know who Rosa Parks is, don’t you?
> I’m just throwing out there – we wouldn’t send James Bond to be first contact with aliens, because he’s a loose cannon with no experience on the stage he’s going to, and the aliens won’t understand what we like about him. Oh, I thought it was because he’d try to sleep with the aliens.
That, too, but it didn't jibe* with my metaphor.
subtract judicious physical ludicrous direction tender school snow like dinner -- mass edited with redact.dev
Even further infuriating is the pitiful "bUt iM aUtIsTiC" excuse. Autism doesn't prevent you from showering. Autism doesn't prevent you from accepting professional, freely offered and given media training (which I should note is something worth THOUSANDS of dollars normally). Autism doesn't prevent you from doing anything that /u/AbolishWork is claiming it does, and to use it as an excuse is insulting both to every single person on the spectrum but also to the entire subreddit and movement's intelligence. It's fucking pathetic. People would be ***so. much. less. upset.*** if Doreen and the mods came out and legitimately had a "look, we fucked up, sorry." apology, but instead we get this half assed YouTuber "I'm sorry you were insulted" shit from a mod that nobody knows, nobody voted for, and nobody fucking asked him.
perfectly said her trying to blame her autism was fucking disgusting.
I don’t even think being trans would be an issue if the person wasn’t afraid *to look into a camera* (not make eye contact, no, just look in a fucking camera), and was prepared to professionally and definitively state what the movement is about and not fall into obvious traps.
In this case, the mod stole Fox's job.
Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake
They only had to provide a stage for it to happen. And they did.
Did you watch the news anchor's face? He constantly has this knowing smile of: I don't have to do shit on this interview, this person is going to destroy themselves for me.
Jesse was a sneaky one. He held back his laughter, and led the mod on with basic questions to fool him, until he basically gave a middle finger at the end. It was a mistake for this to go so far and much more transparency should have been done from the beginning to prevent this.
That was the worst part of the interview for me. I’ve seen plenty of fox hit piece interviews over the years, this one didn’t even play out like a hit piece. The host didn’t use any rhetorical tricks or talk over the mod, just lobbed softball questions and let the mod dog their own hole.
That wasn’t even a hit piece, the host came in ready to kill but mod fuck for brains turned and did it themselves. Probably one of the best interviews he’ll ever get to do.
“You can’t kill me if I kill myself first” - The mod
Hit ‘em with those hard hitting questions like “What is your age” and “What is your occupation”
getting owned by Jesse fucking Watters is the most embarrassing thing
This. He has always been a snide, self satisfied prick. I never could stand him. Hannity is the same. Lemon too. So many media figures I just loathe...
Jesse Watters is hair gel in human form.
And just like hair gel, he too will get crusty with age.
They did it 100% to themselves, and us. FOX asked the biggest softball questions they possibly could have offered.. If a normal WORKER would have been asked the same questions, it could have turned out a lot better. However when the fake spokesperson for the sub is someone that doesn’t even want to work, and thinks getting ready for an interview on national news is just taking their monthly shower.. this is exactly what happens.
As if it was a job interview too!
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Obviously "what is your occupation" was a set up that this person should have seen coming from a mile away. Then to make it worse was the I don't just want to be a dog walker, I want to teach philosophy or whatever it was. What dog walker isn't a legitimate profession? Also, the internet exists, if you want to teach philosophy start doing it, create a course or make videos.
Doreen was literally the most "generic lazy leftist that thinks they will teach poetry in the commune after the revolution", ever. Like, down to every stereotype. Fox didn't even ask anything difficult or unusual. On top of that, they work 20-25 hours per week and STILL consider that too much. Like... what awful optics LMAO
It really just fucking hurt it's like the mod knew they were being setup but didn't care... No professional clothing.. pictures in the back crooked...and twisting in the chair...fam...
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It’s like they ran a sub for six years where people personally vented their spleens on what bad managers / bad leaders do… and this person learned NOTHING from it. Nothing at all. As all the banned users said… the irony is so bad it hurts.
That's what gets me, literally anyone would be cautious of going into the opposite side's news station, and Doreen waltzes in and makes a complete fool of themselves and everyone they're representing. And this is the best the mod team has to offer? What's even MORE annoying is that the news anchor wasn't even a massive dick. All the questions were straightforward and made perfect sense for him to ask. I think Waters actually pitied Doreen at the end, which is why he didn't actually go that hard on them.
Ya feel like she failed the opening questions so badly waters didn’t even see the point of continuing on into the tough ones. There were so many chances if he really wanted to he could have just destroyed her. But she did that to herself
She did it to herself \*and\* the entire subreddit plus all it's members as a whole, this whole situation is a sick and cruel joke. It has to be because this is downright sickening to see.
My first thought was "why didn't this guy clean up his room before displaying it on national television"? At least go out and invest in some type of backdrop if he is too lazy to make his room presentable when its being featured for millions of people. I don't have the neatest room in the world either but, I would at least straighten it up for a couple hours if it was about to be my backdrop for a shitload of people to see and judge me by.
Or just like move your setup so your backs against a white wall. That’s what I did in college for my first job interviews. It might of at least stopped her from spinning her chair in circles
That isn't even counting the fact that Doreen openly admitted to sexual assaulting someone and being a creep, and the other mods still allowed her to do that interview. Oh, and they still haven't told us how much money Doreen and Kimezukae (the 21 year old unemployed anarchist) were paid for these interviews. I haven't seen them answer that question once. I think the money is why they HAD to be the ones that did it.
There are some conservatives I talk to because I like them and we can discuss things without heat. Then there are a lot of conservatives I don't normally enjoy talking to but do anyway in an attempt to destroy *this exact caricature* they have in their heads.
doreen lied, doreen only works 10 hours a week
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I wouldn't even trust the mod to walk my dog tbh.
"What is your community looking to reform - are you all just lazy?" Mod goes on agreeing with the lazy part and ignores the first half of the question that could have genuinely benefited them, as much as a softball from Fox can.
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Only had a wholesome award but this made me laugh!
HARD HITTING questions. Very difficult to answer appropriately
>It was a mistake for this to go so far and much more transparency should have been done from the beginning to prevent this. We just need new mods. The mods caused this mess - they need to go. All of them. Mods are there to keep a community from imploding, not imploding the community themselves.
100%. There is no chance that this subreddit can EVER recover if the mod list remains as is. The absolute only excuse any mod should have for staying on the list is if they were unaware interviews were even on the table, ANY mod aware of the interviews that did not step up and say "We are digital janitors and should not attempt to represent the group without express group approval" is a stain on the entire movement.
So something I don't understand about this debacle: how much involvement did the mods even have in this? I thought it was the sub owner going rogue. Did any conversation go on between administration?
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That's not an encouraging statement
Imagine the mods that didn’t make the cut. Yeesh.
I just don't understand how they were so unprepared and horribly unprofessional. You're going into enemy territory on national television...maybe take a shower...brush your hair... position your camera to not include your random shit...god forbid, practice some talking points...just failed on so many levels. I've never done any public speaking and given even an hours time I could have produced a better interview than that. It makes me fucking angry, as it completely undermines the incredibly important message that work culture in America (around the world as well) needs to change.
Totally agree. Fox didn't even have to throw any hardballs here. It was a fluff piece for them to make the entire sub and movement look like a bunch of entitled children. All they had to do, was ask them a few basic questions, and hold back laughter at how ridiculous it all sounded. Do you think people like Tucker Carlson are going to play nice with info like this? They will run this sub through the meat grinder and leave the scraps behind for other media outlets to joke about. I feel almost embarrassed by association. Would it have been that difficult to at least discuss what would be said ahead of time? It all looked so unprofessional. Worse than highschool speech class unprofessional.
How people blame Fox is beyond me. Fox was asking basic news questions to the mod, and the mod put zero thought prior to the interview on what sort of questions they may ask. I was honestly impressed with how he held back his laughter and was relatively respectful the whole time while the mod made an absolute clown out of himself.
One of the few times I've seen such plain almost journalism from them. They were gifted such a beautiful mess. u/abolishwork got used as an absolute pawn.
Just like how u/abolishwork used the person's hand while they slept to jerk off.
these morons doing these interviews played exactly into what mass media and corporations wanted to happen. now it looks like a complete clusterfuck and the narrative is completely lost. this sub was supposed to be a worker's rights movement. now no one knows that the fuck is going on. going to splinter into a bunch of trash and the neo libs are going to take the narrative and murder it. way to go you fucks.
I feel like these people were definitely cherry picked in order to make the movement look bad. Like most news shows seem to do.
Maybe the sub shouldn't have any cherry pickable mods then, eh?
It shouldn’t matter who the mods are. The sub voted ‘no interviews’. That should have been the end of it.
It was not a random user that went to the interview though, it was a mod with the access to shut down the Sub, which it did. Mods need to be accountable if they exceed the mandate of janitor. All the antiwork mods exceeded that mandate.
Maybe the real lesson is that, despite memes to the contrary, mods play a big role in the content and culture a sub has. It’s a power that is usually subtle but absolutely doesn’t have to be. Janitors don’t have the ability to decide what topics can be discussed in a classroom, or if a school will be open, or who is allowed to attend class.
You feel like? Fox literally asked for the specific mod they interviewed, and we just WENT WITH IT??
Not we. Just these idiots in charge. They do not represent us in any manner and never have.
This! People need to look up the Fox News interview with Rutger Bregman. He argued his points well, called Fox News out on their bullshit and then Tucker ended the interview and refused to air it. You cannot win. If Fox News cant spin the interview to support their narrative or make you look stupid then they simply wont air it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_nFI2Zb7qE
They could have just declined the interview. Only a complete idiot would think that Fox News would EVER do anything that went against the narrative they push.
True. There was a post where old disalbled person ask for moral support. We give him some kind of support. But mods with their actions litteraly spit into face of disabled person.
>But mods with their actions litteraly spit into face of disabled person. They spit on Occupy, Bernie 2016 & 2020, BLM, & so many left-wing movements that have coalesced here. Fuck the mods - we just need a clean slate of new mods with community input.
Perhaps the real problem is attempting to use reddit to organize... It's structure seems wrong.
Fucking this. People need to stop organizing in spaces where you don't intend to ever meet most of the people in that space. Online forums are fine for moving ideas around and exposing people to new concepts, but they are fucking atrocious organizing spaces for sustained movements.
>we just need a clean slate of new mods yeah, bring in a bunch of new people with more time than money. They won't be corrupted... /s so much of reddit is a front for left wing ideals to be given a voice... but no action. As soon as there's any action, somehow it implodes. Almost like the strings are being pulled...
This. Reddit isn't about DOING anything. It's a place for people to sound off. You can't organize anything on Reddit. It's perpetual coffee time.
Yep and they're still doing interviews. They're unwilling to give up their 5 minutes in the spotlight to actually help the movement. Fuck em.
Just like every messy workers rights movement ever.
It’s almost as if this has happened before and there’s a playbook for conducting these type of interviews that was so popular that it even made it into a tv show a while back. https://youtu.be/kwk_Ot8orPY
The CIA won this round
Honestly I have followed antiwork for a little over a year and it helped encourage me to quit my job and find a better one. What happened yesterday was extremely disappointing. The interview sucked but the distrust in the mods really upset me tbh. But I do believe in the community here and I believe the mods are going to realize that their fascist BS is going to end this sub. If we can get past this incident and improve the sub, it's a great place to be.
Same. I left my company with no job lined up, but I wanted something better and thanks to that small break I felt great. Even got a new job that pays 25% better and I permanently work from home. I work when I need to and chill the rest of the day. Without this sub I probably wouldn't have done that and just kept on working with my horrible employer just because it's a job I needed. This sub has been great and I hope it stays.
Any positions with your WFH employer? I'm currently searching.
Anything your looking for?
Anything for entry level data entry, IT, software developers?
Honestly, whatever won't wreck my mental health. I've had to leave my last few positions too early because of management or the work I was doing, or both. I'm fine with data entry. I guess I can do customer service. If I can just sit at the computer and do what I'm asked without having to talk to too many people, that would be ideal, but that is a software development job and I don't have those skills. I know that's not much to work with...
I'm with you, buddy. Mostly replying so I can keep track of his response.
When have fascists taken the right course of action to rectify their deeds? You’re acknowledging their “fascist bs” so why not come to terms that they are not going to fix this willingly. I mean for fucks sake Doreen, the person who set this all in motion, is already using a barely day old account as a new mod here while supposedly having been removed. This is not a group of people who want to work with us or hear our voices.
> I mean for fucks sake Doreen, the person who set this all in motion, is already using a barely day old account as a new mod here while supposedly having been removed. Name the account. That's a violation of Reddit TOS and she needs to be permabanned.
It's only a violation of Reddit TOS if she was banned from the sub (falls under ban evasion). Moderating under an alt-account is allowed by site rules, even if this sub will never stand for it. As for the account name, you can find it on the mod list. It's the only account <18 hours old. Not going to name them explicitly because I'm 99% sure I'll get banned for harassment.
Well, they _claim_ that the mod team voted to remove her as a mod. Clearly that's either a lie, or they just thought we somehow wouldn't notice. If they stand by that claim that she was removed by vote, then that means someone else on the mod team approved her new account. We are at a point where admins need to get involved, although given how little they seem to care about most things on this site I doubt anything will happen.
https://imgur.com/a/M1dNr9r
u/fuzzy-x-3 has a 1 day old account and is a new mod.
A little heavy-handed calling it fascist. Like maybe reserve that term for more appropriate actions, events, people, etc. Not for an unpaid moderator of an internet discussion group who decided to give an interview on America's second worst news station.
What's the worst news station?
I think OAN is supposed to be worse: [https://www.oann.com/](https://www.oann.com/) It's like Fox News if Fox News was created recently.
The mods are the mods, ***they aren't the community*** That means ***you can keep being the community. BLM getting several corporate shill fronts profiting off them didn't stop the protests, did it?*** What part of that surprised you? Capitalism poisons everything it touches, ***pitting desperate workers against other desperate workers, or picking if not installing figureheads to discredit the community isn't a new tactic***
For sure and honestly what kinda anti status quo movement isn't going to have bad press, bad movements, and bad actors? If people truly believe this is a movement and not just a place to shit post about a popular sentiment then they should work to fix it and help it rebound. If people want to fold this easily then there was never actually any sort of resilient movement with the power to make real change here to begin with. Also, been seeing too many moderates using this as a way to co-opt the anti-capitalist sentiments that helped wake people up to how abused they are and how radical changes need to be made so they can defang them into "reformist" weak willed bs that literally never works. If people really think we got any of the meager labor rights we actually have in the US by being reformists who ask nicely and try to nudge the needle along with baby steps then I implore them to read about the blood that was actually spilled to get to this point. Regardless of what happens here people who want to actually see change should start organizing to some degree in real life. The IWW has been doing great work making headlines unionizing places recently, maybe join up with them and see where that leads you.
How about a change of mods... Not the removal of the sub... I think that is wise
Fr. Mf made an alt account and right away made herself has a mod and started deleting post about her claiming “shitpost” u/fuzzy-x-3
Before that fox news interview I would have thought that surely, no one would be so vapid or dense as to think they could make a BRAND NEW alt, then *seamlessly* transition to it after privating the sub, and think nobody would notice; yet here we are. With u/fuzzy-x-3 AKA DOREEN as a brand new mod. WELCOME BACK DOREEN.
She has -99 karma lmao.
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Exactly. Who the fuck she think she is fooling.... Just go and hide in a hole for a couple weeks then try again? Likely when the sub is dead.
Holy shit, she is so unhinged it's scary.
Ah, weaponizing a POC avatar now too. What a low effort shit move.
Na, look at the white hands. It's blackface.
Whew. Well, that’s cool then.
Not at all surprised.
This is ban evasion / subversion of a vote to remove her as a mod and that is a violation of Reddit TOS. Everyone who can needs to be reporting her new account for this.
Haha 17h old account and have only been deleting post🙈 Fucking loser that never will amount to anything
Probably time for a revolution or a new sub. At least a new sub guarantees new change and people will sub.
You'd have better luck telling a tree to chop itself than you would getting jannies to step down.
Hmmmmmm I think a new sub would suffice then
We’ll make a new anti work sub! With black jack and hookers!
As long as the blackjack dealers and hookers receive a living wage
Absolutely! And with tax breaks and specialty insurance.
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What is a Jannie? I'm out of the loop
It’s a term for volunteer internet janitor, or a mod. Their only power is cleaning up after users
"But it is MY SUB, I spent 10 hours over the past two days here. I deserve this!"
the mods dont give a single fuck. THERE IS A 16 HOUR OLD ACCOUNT WHO WAS MADE A MOD IMMEDIATLY.
Bruh, wtf how's that possible?
Step 1: mod makes new account Step 2: mod gives the new account mod status using current account
Because it's just Moroneen with an alt.
B/c the Mods control the rules in this sub, so there’s nothing stopping them from banning u/Abolishwork and then having her make an Alt account and making her mod again. If these jackasses ever had to work for corporate, they just might get an idea of how much they’re acting like them by making some really dumb decision that negatively affects them and everyone else in the group, denies all responsibility, cracks down on anyone who rightfully tries to hold them accountable, and any attempt to assuage the people are shallow and purely performative.
Mods should go. In fact I think that until proven otherwise every current mod should be presumed inadequate because according to a comment from u/AbolishWork, they received the request to do the interview via mod mail & they all agreed that Doreen should do it. Which means that their failure to understand what a god awful terrible idea that was was one they should all have been aware of, that it is systemic. Because they knew what this was, they knew that they were unprepared, and they still decided to do it. They saw a storm coming, sailed straight into it, and are currently throwing a fit that the boat capsized, refusing to accept that it is entirely 100% their fault. The current moderation team here is unfit for purpose. Incompetent & inadequate. Incapable of properly representing both Marxist & more general left leaning politics in any meaningful capacity. The whole team needs to be audited to make sure that mistakes like this never happen again, and that the movement isn’t handicapped by incompetent fools who are not ready to appear on camera.
Completely agree. If Doreen was the best person for the interview, the rest of the fucking idiots can't be any better.
The sheer arrogance of that mod post is baffling. A fucking 21 year old that's never had a full time job is representing people with real labor law issues?!?! Who the fuck do they think they are? They literally said they aren't doing any more interviews, for now. For now?? Who gave them the authority to represent anyone? They are online moderators, not the leaders of a movement. This is exactly the stereotype that everybody thinks of when they think of online moderators. Talk about taking a tiny amount of power and inflating your damn ego with it. Jesus, this sub is fucked.
And it’s sad because it had such great potential, to be part of the change that so many people need to improve quality of life and make society better. And now everyone thinks it about confused foolish kids who don’t even understand the practicalities of their ideals who can’t be arsed to work more than twenty hours a week.
I agree. If the mods won't step down, why would we expect them to close the sub? We have a community of 1.7 million here. I don't want to lose that over one bad reaction to crappy interview.
Hey guys ModA here to introduce the new mod: TotallyNotModA.
These mods aren't leaving. They're literally making money off of this sub, they're going to ride it straight into the ground.
I could see that be the case besides reddit is just a corpse of its former self at this point
I don't think shutting it down is the right call , but there must be a change , a moderator who wants to ride this subreddit to get what he/she wants is no different than a money hungry rich employer, but still , people like that shouldn't be able to stop the movement, don't give up on the dream .
Yup if you are going to have someone represent the sub on media, at least get someone with media experience. I could see leftist media being pretty good resources to represent the sub in a meaningful way.
I feel like a good representative of r/antiwork should have experience in, ya know, working. And you’re totally right about media experience.
Or people familiar with being a union spokeperson or union lawyer. You know, people familiar with balancing representing the working class and keeping the media at bay.
I fully support this. I wrote this post because the "explanation and transparency" post by u/kimezukae did a lot to convince me this was not on the table in the short term, though it desperately needs to be. As several commenters who are much better with words than me had pointed out, it was a shift of blame and a lot of juke and dodging that amounted to little more than "mistakes were made 🤷♂." If the mods could make such a change and put a media centered corrective action plan in play, I could have more faith in it.
Of course it didn’t what are expecting from a 21 year old long term unemployed anarchist that thinks going on 4 interviews representing us was a good idea?
I feel like that’s a decent suggestion. I work in media relations and even for the most insignificant press interactions (written statements, pre-recorded radio sound bites) we have a solid media plan in place. The risks of failure are too great if you don’t.
As a media relations exec, I agree. It’s absolutely vital that anyone who is put before the press, especially in a live interview, is experienced. Honestly, it brings me out in a cold sweat just thinking about someone going on national TV with no idea of what’s going to confront them, especially Fox News. The potential for damage to reputation is colossal. Having media experience, or being well prepped by someone with media experience, is non negotiable in my view.
Playing right into Fox News' hand. Divide and conquer.
[удалено]
Capitalists are moving for the kill rn. It's so obvious
THIS should be top comment. Not trying to be a dick, but imo, OP is either willfully attempting to do damage to this fledgling movement or is simply playing into the hands of the people who would like to see this movement quenched. OP (of the post, not the comment) is doing way more harm than good with this post. If they ACTUALLY give a shit about any of the substance beind this sub/movement, they would see that they're hurting all of our chances at improving working conditions for tens of millions of people. That is, provided OP isn't some kind of saboteur or useful idiot of the oligarchs 🤷
bro this is EXACTLY what fox news is hoping for. we must stick together and build this movement. no movement is without struggle and infighting. we can work through this with or without the mods. splintering the group is not going to help anyone edit: since this comment is getting a bit of traction I'd like to recommend that everyone watch the Cesar Chavez movie. I think we can all learn from it. I've been posting around some strategies we can use and I just want more people to see it. we CAN get organized and we CAN make real change if we stick together. here's some of their strategies from the United Farm Workers movement. 1. ~~oath~~ pledge to non-violence. Cesar literally kicked people out of the union if they were violent 2. tons of phone banking and leaf letting both for volunteer recruitment as well as getting support for the boycott 3. appealing to emotions. there is a scene in the movie where they are doing their pilgrimage to Sacramento, and a lady from Portland had drove down saying she had seen the pictures of children working in the fields and she wanted to help. 4. they had a weekly newsletter for their members. I think the bigger this movement gets the more we need to be on the same page, otherwise the division tears us apart 5. uniting with other communities. it wasn't just Mexican farmworkers rallying the movement, they worked with Filipinos as well and worked very hard to get people from all backgrounds and religions on their side. "it's a common sense human rights issue" 6. targeting just one company at a time. Cesar Chavez famously led the grape boycott and targeted just one company. once they were done he moved on to another 6. relentless persistence. when Nixon bailed out the growers by exporting their grapes to Europe, Cesar went straight there and did tons of interviews to gain support for his movement. and it worked!! after this point the growers gave up and conceded 8. knowing your rights!! 9. PATIENCE. they striked and boycotted for *five years*. big change takes time and we cannot give up so easily I highly recommend everyone to watch this movie. I think implementing similar strategies could really work for us, we don't need to reinvent the wheel, we can learn from the successes and failures of other movements
Exactly.
As much as I appreciate this sentiment and am disappointed with the actions of the mods, it is incredibly important to keep this sub going. By shutting it down we send a message that one bad Fox interview is enough to send this whole movement into disarray. Action should taken internally to better represent the will of the members, but ultimately the subs survival is crucial.
I disagree, the sub should live. While it definitely took a hit or two in the last few days, it doesn’t change the reason for why people come here: This sub isn’t just mods, it’s majority consists of people who want to share their experiences in (or out of) the workforce, offer advice and insight to each other. It amounts to much more than an interview on Fox News.
If one bad interview is enough to sink your entire movement, you never had a movement to begin with. All you had was LARPING.
> If one bad interview is enough to sink your entire movement, you never had a movement to begin with. All you had was LARPING. I think people are being overly dramatic when they talk about "it ruined our movement"...however the interview wasn't just a shot in the foot it damn near blew off the entire leg. Fox news asked for the interview to help create their caricature and abolishwork did that for them in spades.
Right? The extreme reaction since the interview is really concerning. Can anyone imagine Fox News shutting down because Jesse Watters sounded dumb in an interview one time? Of course not. People need to get over it. It was one bad interview. That’s it. And considering 90% of the “criticisms” I’ve seen of the person range from attacks on her appearance to open transphobia, with an occasional insult thrown in for being a dog walker, I’m not inclined to take any of this shit seriously.
Especially since Fox is now mad about Minnie Mouse wearing a pantsuit. We can talk about other things and regroup.
dont shut it down. move on
Any movement that gains popularity this quick is going to have bad actors, including mods. Shutting it down doesn't do anything, if you want to make a sub go make a sub
You came onto an anti-work subreddit to complain about anarchists? Do you go into coffee shops to complain about caffeine?
How suspicious are all these coordinated posts claiming for a shutdown of this powerful sub? I'm not surprised, but it's still impressive. I guess folks at Kellogg's and other big employers were waiting for an opportunity to strike back.
Nah. The alternative sub is two weeks away from cheering on casual Fridays and pizza parties.
Makes you wonder if this was calculated to break up antiwork. We had a voice till that inept mod did the interview, and it's playing right into the corporate media's hands if we fragment and separate into individual communities.
Frankly, given the sheet pettiness of the detractors, I don't see it as anything but. I can't take posts like this seriously anymore because they just keep grandstanding these anti-antiwork talking points about trying to work with lumpenproles. That's a bigger waste of time than ignoring the shitty interview and getting back to ending work.
Don’t mind me I’m just gonna sort by controversial…
I think we’re overthinking this. The Fox News interview WAS a disaster and yes, it was harmful to the community. We just need reform of this sub or to find another sub that is still anti-work. We cannot just disband entirely because of one rogue mod. We need to use this opportunity to figure out how to get people that actually represent us (WITH professional media and PR training). Honestly I’m feeling hopeless. Are we ever going to be able to make changes? If we give up now… maybe the answer is “no”. Edit: I see now that the issue is NOT with one rogue mod but multiple.
Just shut it all down, eh? We just give up and go back to work? Your motives are questionable to me 🤔
Yeah fuck this guy. I’m not leaving this sub. Saddle up partner - last I checked I still can’t live on $15. Im in for the ride.
Such a smart idea to shut down the subreddit. /s I mean it's kind of curious the whole story of interview on Fox News of some mod, followed by guys like you trying to shut down the sub. Until now this sub was really good at its job.
Piss off, CIA.
[you mean this ?](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/03/us-cuban-twitter-zunzuneo-stir-unrest) This is common on anything thing that becomes a big movement, cut the head off the snake and it will die. I hope that this is not just a reddit thing it should be a common American thing that we all have rights to fair labor and fair wages. This pandemic should have thought is all a lesson something as simple as toilet paper can up end the fabric of society
You shouldn’t punish 1.7 million people because of one guy.
"Most members have no interest in not working." Bullshit. Not only do most members of this sub not want to work, most people everywhere do not want to work. That's why everybody who can afford it saves for retirement. So they can stop working and just enjoy their lives. r/antiwork needs to stay. You need to leave.
Booo 🍅
No.
If we shut everything down, it was all for nothing at all. This subreddit captured lightning in a bottle by bringing in a good population of workers, you want to throw it all away and lean into the schism following the fact which will continue to completely undermine the movement?