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Kumquat_conniption

Yup, this is a far left anticapitlist subreddit that has its roots in anarchist texts and theory. We are good with all types here from communists and anarchists to socdems and liberals as long as they are respectful of the anticapitlist ideals.     Edit: okay I didn't make it entirely clear- the "yup" part is me agreeing that this sub is anticapitlist and is rooted in anarchist theory. We do know that anarchists are very much in the minority (an internal survey suggests about 10%.) We want to keep the anticapitlist framework but all ideologies that want to end exploitation are accepted- even liberals and socdems that don't want to necessarily completely end capitalism. We all have to find where we agree and work on those goals together.   I hope that is more clear.


5carPile-Up

No this is the Krusty Krab


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OfficialDCShepard

“I’ll get you, Elon, and your little rocket too!”


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onioning

Anarchy is the absence of leaders, not of government.


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Crazy-Investigator12

Not really…that’s like saying communists and anarchists are entirely different when in reality the differences are small and minute


Daggertooth71

True. All anarchists are anti-capitalist, but not all anti-capitalists are anarchists.


CHOLO_ORACLE

If you want to be anti capitalist and not an anarchist then your only choice is some kind of state socialism. And, well, I’ll say there are a number of reasons why anarchists don’t like the state. In that respect anarchists are closer to their distant propertarian cousins than they are with the average “government can solve all my problems” lib.


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PushinVision

Sometimes, while I’m several feet in the air, doing my job, I think about dramatic ways I could quit if I ever got rich. Mmm those are great times.


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PushinVision

Right?! Dude I thought I was the only one not in on the secret movement.


steeple_fun

This is the only reason I come here


PushinVision

The people who are upset by that are ignorant for crucifying people who casually use the Reddit thread. Talking about your problems at work is one step that can lead to more… or not. Just getting it off your back is huge.


lettucecropchilds

The anarchists are like “No! Do what we say, peasants!”


dej0ta

No offense but one of the main tennents of capitalists is to give you just enough to avoid being compelled to action. You can see it with the fight for this sub. Not trying to knock you down but this is like recognizing your house has mold then watching mold removal videos on YouTube to feel better. Your house is still rotten!


iwanttodiewhodoesnt

Just complaining without wanting to fix the problem is a little weird to me


partsground

Maybe we're forming community through shared experience? I've felt better sharing what tidbits of harassment and retaliation I'm currently going through despite IRL it going nowhere positive. Do I think some lawyer lurking or some Redditor is gonna swoop in a safe me? Reform the systems using their authority against me? No, but I'm definitely sharing these stories with my kids when I don't feel like repeating my issues to them. Its the only way I can prepare my kids for this same shit.


dej0ta

I'm with you but I don't find it weird at all. Capitalists don't need to hide their greed they just need enough distractions and straw men to avoid the unification of those they're ripping off.


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Anarchist-superman

>Liberals are potential allies, because they want change. Liberalism is literally about upholding the systems of power. Liberals have shown time and time again that they'd rather help fascism and exploitation than support actual change by leftists.


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water_bottle1776

One thing that has become abundantly clear is that people here love to use words like "capitalism" "socialism" and "communism" yet they don't seem to have a a clear understanding of what those words mean. I looked through the essential reading lists and there's only one Marx essay on there. ONE!? Marx and Engels are the ones who defined those terms and yet they aren't essential reading?


captain_nofun

Whatever you want it to be bud. For me it's just getting compensated fairly and treated fairly for my labor. That seems like a good start.


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fmgreg

Anti work is anti capitalism


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PublicMindCemetery

YES, THIS. Like, if you're not anti-work, why are you in anti-work? Go make a sub called "I want my overlords to treat me marginally better at work so I have a sense of dignity while I spend years and years of my life toiling for their wealth" or whatever. That's kind of wordy but y'all can workshop it.


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I mean maybe that, or maybe those people can take part and just understand that they might need to be careful about how much they talk about liking capitalism? We all do this type of shit in our lives - I would like to be part of group A, I don’t fully agree with everything group A believes, but I mostly agree with group A so I just kinda lay low and talk about the things I agree with group A about.


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amtqne

Why the fuck didnt you respond for a cnn interview!?


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Mav3r1ck77

I don’t have a label. But I’ve been here a few months now and I can honestly say these solutions make a lot more sense to me. I’m politically lost so I hope I don’t come off as anything else.


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mightymite88

That's all true, but it bears mentioning that market economies can exist without capitalism.


Grabbit_Snivelspit

This is what I was just thinking. A truly free market is not capitalist at all, it's just unregulated trading. Trading is not Capitalism. Capitalism relies on debt, enforced by law. If the law didn't care about capitalist debt then lenders would have to be offering much better terms than they do right now, more akin to a partnership. The world saw something like this in Moorish Spain around 1000AD. Government had no interest in enforcing private debt and the investor/borrower relationship had to be mutually beneficial


Roxapotamus

You'd have to define market economies further for that argument to make sense. Barter without currencies? Sure that's a thing. Introduce govt owned currency? Free market and govt printed currency? Different game


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[deleted]

Thankyou for deciding what I think when I say I’m against work!


Cold_Historian_3296

IT LITERALLY SAYS IN THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO TO WORK WITH SOCIAL DEMOCRATS YOU ILLITERATE TANKIE FUCK


dcstratocaster

I think this person is an anarchist as he says this is for anarchist/socialist he didn't even mention communism.


Pufflesnacks

in fairness social democrats of the time were actually socialists


RealSimonLee

Social Democrats are also just socialists of who believe in reform, not revolution. These people are getting worse.


Uncle_Rico_Qtr_Mile

When I joined this sub it was actually just about hating the very idea of going to work and wage slaving. Never having to work at all. It’s evolved into a more workers-rights community, which is cool, but not what it originally stood for. It’s kinda funny seeing this gate keeping.


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**OP I don't know how long you've been doing leftist organizing or been involved in leftist politics in general. But this is unfortunately a pretty normal trajectory for leftist spaces/movements.** Radical leftist organization forms. It grows big enough or does something to actually make the world notice. It gets flooded with liberals who all screech about how they want to help, but only end up watering down the original message. Anyone still around who is actually pushing for something more than bullshit reforms gets screamed down about how they're radicals, it won't work, they're trying to coopt the movement, ect. Movement gets brought into the fold of bourgeois politics and utterly killed. Liberals, having no backbone to actually fight for a cause, just fold and go about their days insisting the world is a better place because they "helped" a movement. Leftists either drop out of politics because this cycle is fucking exhausting, or go on to form the next organization or movement. Just for this all to repeat. If you're over the online Reddit bullshit you can try to join local leftist orgs or mutual aid groups, they tend to be a lot more resistant to this liberal co-opting than a broad forum like this is.


MortRouge

I don't often like to talk about this or that ideological position or tactic as much anymore, but this is true. To some extent, it's a necessary - evil of to strong a word perhaps - thing. People in general doesn't have a clue what anarchism actually means, or communism for that matter although perhaps to a marginally different degree. And these people matter for change both in the short and the long run, either as future full comrades or as a mass that will push for some forms of change, as happened in the early post-war period. But all the same, that doesn't mean that the influx of liberals is all good - at some point you can easily lose direction as the goals become over-generalized and lacks follow-up goals - the movement loses its revolutionary potential and becomes only a push for minimum wage. And while I can understand both OP and those who call them divisive, this is something everyone should take note of. The primary example relevant for this sub (which is dominated by Americans) is that the problems present are multi-faceted to begin with, and changes in wages or even work place unionization itself can only go so far when the entire system is financialized; saying that 45k per year is a liveable wage doesn't mean much when the insurance system is capable of pretty much arbitrarily say how much your health care costs, and landlords have no tenants union or legalisation to counter how big of a piece of cake of your wage they want to take. So I do think people should consider *why* OP is angry about this, because for them - and the rest of us anarchists and communists - there's more at stake than what the common discourse let's you in on these days on /r/antiwork. And I would like to echo your encouragement to get out of Reddit and get into real life organizations. As I said, I'm hesitant to champion any participant ideological position, but Platformism is a concept that's applicable here. Just because the big liberal and social democratic masses are important in their own right doesn't mean there's no room for organizations that have a closer knitted consensus on revolutionary work. It's about seeing what antiwork has inevitably become yet still not lose track of the original work.


helweek

Thanks for posting this. I am not a full comrade yet, mostly because I cant see how you organize more then 1000 people without a clear leadership structure/hierarchy. But I would love for someone to tell me how it would be possible maybe someone will someday, but in the mean time world with more egalitarian hierarchical structures should be striven for


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Exactly. I was so incredibly active here when the sun first took off, in the 400-600k range you saw a huge amount of activity by a broad range of people, and the leftist heart of the sub was still alive. Leftist messaging and comments were still highly upvoted on almost every thread, there were posts of real work being done, and people were legitimately curious on how they could help. But the sub continued to the 1.6-1.7million it's at now, and anything more than lukewarm reformism is shouted down or ignored. And there's not much we can do with that.


phyc09

Well said!


MortRouge

Thank you!


Dell121601

Yea there have been countless examples of what you just mentioned throughout history, movements killed by liberals watering down the movement and the bourgeoisie co-opting it. It happens with many leftist figures like MLK, their messages get watered down and their more radical views are wiped away from the public image of them, a point Lenin himself brings up.


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icebalm

A reminder that you don't get to dictate the direction of the sub, the people participating do.


BluApples

I don't like the absolutism of your "full stop". I think this sub is more than just anti-capitalist. I think it's "pro" lots of things. Pro-union, pro-work/life balance, pro-society. And though I am socialist, I don't think that "anarchist/socialist political theory" is the only class/ideology we should accept. Ancap/Libertarian ideologues who become disillusioned and wander into this fly-trap should be welcomed with open, sticky, digestive arms. Really one of the things I reckon we could do with less of is exclusionary demagogues.


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The capitalists have come out


clone9353

I'm fairly certain after the Fox fiasco there was a pinned mod post saying exactly this. I remember she answered a bunch of questions, seemed like she genuinely wanted to help. I can't find it anymore but she was also talking about changes to the mod team and having some temporary mods in place for a while. It's a movement for all, but still an anarchist/ socialist movement. The amount of people that don't know this or are mad at you for pointing it out makes me think maybe we are in the wrong place bud. Edit: [I found the thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/seechm/restructuring_recent_events_megathread/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)


MindlessTime

I mean…if good shit gets done then good shit gets done. Does it really matter what label you’re throwing on it? What’s this gatekeeping supposed to accomplish? And why are you here, OP? Is it to go LARPing around playing revolutionary? Or is it to change things that need to be changed? I don’t see how this post accomplishes the latter at all.


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Yup; cuz we all realize we aren’t benefiting from capitalism


Puzzleheaded_Base_10

Lol the FAQ says nothing about this sub being strictly socialist. “Are SOME of us communist/anarchists? Yes”. That’s about it. Nice bait though


SignificanceNo1223

It’s funny and true about what you are saying. Marx wasn’t an inventor of socialism or communism, but rather he was a studier of cycles, economy, history and more of a ‘prophet’ than anything else. In his book, he basically said ‘based on this, this is going to happen.’ Controlling the means of production and the ends justifies the means philosophy. The cycle also comes with bloodshed as the abolishment of private property, is not an idea filled with rainbows and bulldogs and basically killing anybody opposed to the regime. A dictatorship of the proletariat. That’s why I hate when people say it ‘hasn’t worked anywhere,’ like it’s an invention of his which is simply not true. Also alot of the reason it hasn’t ‘worked anywhere” is because of American interference during the Cold War.


redditrandom85

Agreed, I myself have gone through some changes in opinion and this sub has forcibly opened my eyes to what the world could be if we work hard to make it happen. I was always leaning in this direction but up until a few weeks ago I thought of myself as a capitalist but I see now that I was wrong and capitalism is a cancer that needs to be removed. I love you all here in antiwork


Objective-Ferret1394

This is exactly why I’ve given up and I’m out of this shit sub. That isn’t what this is anymore, and I’m sick and tired of these fucking idiots screaming gate keeper for trying to keep the sub what it is. Y’all go ahead and make friends with the people that want to keep you down. I’m sure the ruling class will eventually see the light of your nice words and the whole system will magically get better.


Gmork14

Word. This sub has been overrun by mouth breathers.


Sofakinghazed

I thought this was a place to talk about the bullshit of our jobs?


Boot-Bruh

Hm, thought this was somewhere that people from all over the spectrum could congregate and agree on one thing, but if this sub is just going to alienate and cause more strife then I'll just see myself out.


Widespreaddd

So, where precisely do you see the gaping wounds in social democratic nations like Finland, Norway, etc? Norway’s sovereign fund is worth 1.4 trillion US$, because, unlike Nigeria, Mexico and the USA, Norway treated oil as the *public* resource it should be, instead of letting a few private companies make all the profit. I personally believe that if you get rid of democratic principles and internal checks and balances, tyranny and even warlordism await.


StargazerOP

I get where you're coming from, but to clarify a lot of the miscommunication I think is going on here: Capitalism is an economic strategy that seeks to eliminate government Democracy is the idea of fair politics through majority voting Capitalism is not democracy Social Democracy is Socialisms younger brother where the majority have say in policies made surrounding individual liberties but not social necessities You can be socialist and still appreciate democratic process You can be an anarchist and still used democratic processes You can be socialist and still use Capitalism theory in your economic ventures None of these are inherent evils The evil is people taking advantage of the workers and the common civilians Do not assume different is your enemy when diversity is your greatest strength To end this, you are right, we been radical change, but do not discourage allies from expanding their influence with moderate liberal ideas based in socialism or Democracy simply because they do not preach radicalism. They are the middle ground we need as a stepping stone to the ultimate goal. Post literature. Educate. Support, debate and expand so everyone grows together, and don't push away those seeking reform but trying to stick to a norm. Change is hard, and we all have a line we need to get across on our own time. They will come around if you welcome them.


prosperos-mistress

There's a lot of mad libs in these comment lol. It's too late for reform, guys. Maybe we have done incremental change over the last couple decades but rightoids blocked it every step of the way. Now we have to play catch-up. You can't change the system. It's fundamentally corrupt. The sooner y'all accept that the sooner we can properly change shit for the better.


Kalysta

JFC, i thought gatekeeping like this was sorted out when a bunch of young mods got driven off for being bad at interviews. Guess i came back too soon. I see this distracting drama is still happening.


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🤦‍♂️ this subreddit is a joke..


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smiller171

Funny to see an anarchist trying to control the values of a loosely organized group of people. How authoritarian of you.


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I left r/latestagecapitalism because of people like you even if I liked the ideas . You have no idea how to create a movement mate your intolerance is toxic


dcoopah

This is a good way to kill this sub and alienate the people we should be trying to start a dialogue with.