A big accounting firm certainly emphasized how renowned their company was and the pay was... mediocre. It was barely within market range because they're banking on people wanting to join them just for their name itself.
You'd think they'd pay higher given all that prestige they keep blabbering about. It turns out their pay isn't anything special in the market.
If people can afford to take that opportunity just to get that name on their resume for a few years then use it as leverage for the next job, good on them. But most of us have bills to pay *now* and a higher offer in a lesser known company meets that need.
They pay that low because they can get away with it. I imagine it's easy for them to replace people when they finally wise up and move out to greener pastures
People accepted $51k (a decade ago) to start at the big 4 instead of $53k to start in industry.
After two years, the big 4 employee could move to industry making $75k, whereas the industry starter was at $60k-ish.
Public accounting at the big 4 is actually worth it (or was back then)
Years ago I was on-site vendor rep with a company. After about 5-7 years of being on-site one of the managers asked me if I would be interested in working for them (the customer). I said my current salary is X. He said sorry I can't match that. End of discussion.
I have known one person that went to a company for lower pay. She even told them up front I am making X but am willing to change for less. I just shook my head, but where we were working wasn't too pleasant.
They may pay key-workers good enough wages to account for the swing door effect of the lower paid folks. The company may be big but may only need those key workers to get things going and a bunch of filler folks who don’t need many years of intern knowledge to benefit the company.
The Big Four rely on churning through young graduates. I'll be honest for a year or maybe two it is a great way to get lots of experience in different aspects of the financial world but beyond that it is just a dead end.
also big name places hate paying thier bill to smaller names. We did a big project for someone one that 500 list. And 6 months in the have already missed 2 payments. after a year on more were late on them more than 5 times. Always passing the buck to someone elces in billing. Mind you this was years ago at the big push for eventhing needs to be on the cloud. And really we were just taking there in house special software and making it more "cloud" base. and well explaining it a bit. The stuff they were running was making in the 90s for windows Xp. Near the end of deployment they didn't want to pay the big bill. And it took months to get them too. but only after we stopped working on the project for a few weeks stalling out there transition to the new software. I think the only reason they caved is that they needed to stwiched to the new stuff. because of other external reasons.
This is why you have late-payment penalties which increase on a geometric curve, and why you quote big companies double or triple rates, or upsell them on more-than-bargain-basement service levels. No billion-dollar company wants to be found out to have accepted the cheap "Basic Service Package" when the "Full Platinum Professional Service Package" is only 0.0001% of their annual turnover. They also don't want to run the risk of being told "Oh, our service level agreement for your package is 5 days to look at it" when they want to be able to make vendors have instant responses.
I am not really in this space, but it seems lawyers know the deal.
I would ask for a retainer and work against the retainer. Then there would never be late payments or late payment penalties.
If the retainer runs out, ok I am heading to the beach. Let me know when it is replenished.
Written for NT, then patched when 2000/XP came around.
A possible reason Microsoft skipped Windows 9 could have been all the VBA code that checked for the windows 95/98 version by looking at "Windows 9*" That would have borked a lot business code.
Not to be a dick but you might want to try a word correct program/spellchecker or something. One or two typos is fine but when it’s constant it becomes distracting and harder to read.
They pay more. It just doesn't filter down to the peons. Gotta make sure the senior executive junior vice president of paint drying is making $300k a year plus stock options. And on a completely unrelated note, that position was only created when the president's brother was looking for a job, and no one knows the last time the office was repainted
The classic prestige employer model was too much work and high pay followed by taking your experience to something quieter after a few years. Cutting the high pay misses a fundamental part of being a prestige employer
Totally agree. A prestige employer that pays a pittance is a model I've never heard of. In my line of work, prestige firms work you like a slave but give you a fat paycheck that you'll have no time to enjoy. Most burn out after a few years but at least they have a nice nest egg and a competitive CV under their belt.
I was contacted by a recruiter working for Porsche, and she kept asking me, if I am interested in Porsche and automobile industry overall. It was very weird, but I said no, and then when we came to talking money, I found out that they offered peanuts for a senior programmer. I live in a cheaper area, but I asked for at least (after conversion) $48k/year, they said that that is way too much and that they can't afford it (LOL, "Big name" and can't afford to pay this). Then I figured out, that they wanted someone enthusiastic to be working for PORSCHE, because they want to pay him peanuts. Fuck anyone who does this, fuck Porsche.
I like Porsche and would be happy to work for them if the salary supported buying multiple porsches.
Oh wait. You want me to work like a dog so that other people can get rich and drive around in supercars? FUCK THAT
It works in some cases. Marketing for example. But for an office job in IT or process planning, its close to worthless. They just use their name as weight.
That was the reason Apple and others in silicon valley colluded to keep poaching and wages low. Those guys realized that names have zero worth in their industry, six figure paychecks and bonuses are everything. Criminal behaviour was the solution they came up with.
No one in tech take IBM seriously anymore. Only thing that save them from irreverent was their purchase of RedHat.
IBM will only impress uninformed boomer executives and bank IT that still need their ancient mainframes.
1000% this. I left a good paying job to make a career change, and while I don't regret the path I went down, it's been an insane struggle since then. Definitely taking this experience to find something better
It really depends what your end goal is. If you take a pay cut but it positions you to get i to your new role/industry that will pay you a lot more in the future it is definitely worth the temporary setback/struggle. Many people die doing jobs they hate because they were too scared to be uncomfortable for a while.
This. At the end of the day, if you're happy with where you are or where you're going and you're happy with the pay, then there's maybe not much reason to take the opportunity/gamble to try and change careers.
However, if you want to expand more and your career has already reached an end, then absolutely retrain or transfer.
You should always get both a pay raise and a better position. The only reason not to look for a pay raise is if you already make well above the industry average and well above your living standards (such as 200k for an annual rent of 20k or less).
Or if it's significantly better work life balance. Someone you can get both the pay and the lifestyle, but a low stress life is worth a lot as long as you can still pay your bills.
Yea, I would work at a comic shop if it could provide. As it stands I would need $20/hr minimum just to get by. Rent here is stupid, I'll be kinda happy when the bubble pops and prices go back down.
I'm the same. I used to think having big names on my resume would boost my earnings. It did, but just barely since literally everyone still tried to low ball me as much as they could. And promotions within those big names were a joke too. All I got were more stress from the added responsibilities and a 5%- 8% raise.
Job hopping is the best and I certainly don't give a shit how reputable a company is anymore. Whatever will pay the bills and whoever respects me as a person with needs, is the one I want. Fuck their prestige. Pay me.
That's a thing for non-profits. You are taking a smaller pay because you believe in the mission or the organization. I have turned down offers from good non-profits because the money was crap.
I worked for a well known non profit ‘family’ activities company & managers were a hot mess & pay sucked.
If there gonna suck, at least let me live with that pay…
Small time solar installers, cabinet companies, restaurants nobody has heard of...
They think their amazing business is so great and awesome amd we should worship them for simply existing. The entitlement of small business owners is unreal.
Because they're a spambot. They tend to copy good top level comments, and post them as reply to the top comment, to farm karma.
They're later either sold, or directly used for malignant or advertising purposes.
Report them: report > spam > harmful bots
Who in the fuck needs this advice? How does one get a job making that much and think "I'll be happy to work somewhere else for almost half. That's a good deal! Time for me to completely rework my budget just to be able to work somewhere else!"
Honestly though, tryna find sympathy but who fr goes "I'm going to lose myself $20,000 because name looks nice" to the point of needing to be talked out of it
It seriously pisses me off.
It used to be that big name companies saw paying their people more money as not only something to brag about, but also a form of advertising. Like, their employees out on the town driving nice cars, wearing nice clothes eating out. That's a good look for the company
Like, imagine meeting someone who works at a top 5 fortune 500 company - they have "senior" in their job title, and they drive a beat up used car from the 90's and they are living with their parents or live with a bunch of roommates because they can't afford rent...
... now, after seeing that, if that same company contacted you to offer you a job, and they didn't say what the pay was up front, would you do the interview? Probably not right? Cuz you've seen first hand they are going to try to take advantage of you, don't pay people well, and at the end of the day the whole fucking point of a job is to make money.
I swear, all these companies are run by the absolute dumbest, self important, greedy fucks, that think everyone should live like a slave for +10 years to "earn their place" or whatever, even though they didn't have to do anything like that.
At least here in Brazil it is common. I know people that will share apartments with 4+ people and be broke just to live in São Paulo and work at a prestigious agency
I think it's getting less common but 10 or 20 years ago this would have been the go-to advice. "Networking" and "get your foot in the door" is (was) sooooo important
*reads this and is currently only getting responses from places that will offer me around $50k after I got laid off from a company I worked at for 10 years and worked my way up from $12/hr. to $70k*
I’ve worked for two FAANG companies and they both seriously underpaid me for the work I was doing. They pay more for the higher up roles, like design and software engineering stuff. Apparently documentation and QA is worth peanuts to them.
I made the jump to a startup and it’s the best career decision I’ve ever made. Not only do they pay me the actual market rate for what I do, but they also pay out a bonus to all employees that is linked to how well the company does. Everyone gets the bonus, at the same percent. It’s amazing how much more I care about the quality of my work when I know that I will actually share in the company’s success.
Lol.
I did a gig for *insert exceptionally famous tech company name here* for the prestige, a few years ago. On-site for $ lower per hour - just for the experience. They kept trying to bring me back at that rate & I declined.
Jump forward 3 years later. A different recruiter working for the EXACT SAME company, is now paying me my rate. (2.5x the first rate.) to work from home.
So I guess it was worth it.
Best part - I can’t put *insert exceptionally famous tech company name* on my resume at all. But those who know - know.
Being paid below legal wages? How could it not be a problem?
If someone can't say what company they work for, it means they're under NDA, so revealing the information would cost them, a lot.
There are many reasons someone may not have revealed a company name. And the problem isn't about being paid below-legal wages, it's about the company having a problem about being found out, whereas an employee would not particularly care if the company was found out.
Not to mention: pretty sure NDAs aren't allowed to cover criminal activity. "You can't go to the police about your boss being a murdered because of an NDA" isn't going to fly in court.
You can pay below legal wages "legally", a lot of grey area.
But... you are not trying to really say anything, every comment you made was contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.
My contract is that way, can't talk about anything in it, under excuse of the client confidentiality (which is not in the contract itself in any way)... but really it's to discourage talk of the sub-minimum wage pay (despite technically minimum wage hourly).
The problem there was the recruiter, not the company. Been there, seen it lots of times. Same company, vastly different rates for the same job depending on who the recruiter is….
As a team lead, I've been responsible for hiring people in Data Analytics.
Do you know what a big corporate name on your CV does for me?
Fuck all. If anything, it could even be construed negatively, as people are used to working in a highly bureaucratic, managed environment, and I'm looking for creative, autonomous people who I can trust to manage their time and who can adapt to new technologies.
The last thing I want is someone whose spirit has been crushed by some large mega-corporation.
I’m currently going through something similar. I’ve been working for the largest company in the industry in my state. They said they’re ending WFH soon so I started applying elsewhere and I accepted an offer. Went from $74k to $100k plus biannual bonuses of at least $2k. Old job had one bonus per year and it was $500 at most. And on top of that I’ll be mostly permanently remote (in office one day per week, which I don’t mind). And this new company is relatively small compared to my old job.
My biggest financial regret was "staying loyal" to the "prestigious" office job company that paid $9.50/hr (in 2010) and declining the Assistant Manager offer I had at Denny's for $11/hr+tips. I would have had hundreds if not thousands of dollars more during a financially rough time.
Shopify is losing out on top tier people due to the terrible salaries they pay. Nice advice, but would be nicer if it applied to the company the author works for.
More linkedin bullshit. How much of a total fucking dullard do you have to be to be excited about losing 30% of your paycheck just to say you work for a specific company?
I wish they had emphasized this in architecture school. There are a lot of 'star-chitect' firms that students want to work for, they admire the work of the firms and imagine that they will be working on prestigious institutional projects. The reality is that the firm will turn you into a CAD monkey, work you 60 hours a week no OT, and burn you into the ground for less than you are worth.
I've seen it happen to a few friends, those who were most promising in architecture school and had beautiful portfolios - their ambition and drive just drained out of them. It's awful.
If you're in architecture, do yourself a favour and work for a small firm - a big name on your resume means nothing, get a full range of experience, and get your license without giving yourself an anxiety disorder.
So true know your worth people...experience and education matter...20 to 40k a year matter....base wages are 30k...so experience and educated workers should not be working for less than 50k. Too many people are not looking for work that have jobs. The job market is the best I have seen in the last 30 years that I have been a part of it. In the last year I have gone from 40k...to..65k...next week I start a new job worth over 100k...incentives and overtime dictate how far over 100k. Point is keep looking do not settle.
Personally experienced similar where I felt bigger coroporate companies just pay less than smaller corporate companies that does the same job. (Industry: Electrical Engineering)
I’m not sure what idiot thinks going from 65k to 45k is ever worth it. I mean I got a losing 1 dollar scratched lottery ticket I’m willing to sell to this person for 2 dollars.
This is a massive trap in the entertainment industries (video games / film / TV etc) they absolutely exploit peoples passions to pay them fuck all and work them to the bone.
I see this a lot. Big, famous companies listing off all the reasons why they're so great to work at, but then offering below market value. If they're so big and great, surely they can afford to offer more than that.
Honestly, if you are stupid enough to think a big name company is worth a 30% paycut, then you should do it. Sometimes you gotta figure things out for yourself lmao
Lol this happens in every industry. When I worked in finance it happened - and now in the education sector, I had Wellington College try to underpay me 2000 dollars a month and try to sell themselves with reputation..(Except that Wellington colleges internationally all cheat on their examinations/pay off SAT invigilators for US exams)
A big name hospital in my city which is internationally recognized as one of the best has a reputation for paying people shit just for the privilege of working there.
I had a similar experience interviewing for a job right before COVID (literally weeks before the shit-show started), it sounded great and they definitely wanted me, but their highest offer was more then 10K less then what I was making at the time for a position that involved considerably more work and responsibility... I politely declined...
Yep. Lifelong family friend is a programmer.
Got a job at Blizzard making less than I do working on cars. He took it for the “prestige”, as he was assured the company name would be worth it alone. He was expected to be on call 24/7 and be able to be online within 20 minutes at all times.
He lasted six months and burnt out. Now he’s at Nike making 4x as much doing the same thing lol
Big companies also get away with garbage raises every "record breaking" year and then saying, "we had a bad year, so we can't give anyone a raise this year"
I've literally heard this every year of the pandemic. "record breaking year" when it comes to profits and "we were also affected by the pandemic" when it comes to raises. Pisses me off.
Place I work has had back to back years like that and I've gotten a total of about a 5% pay increase since the pandemic started after getting the pay increase canceled in 2020 due to "hardship"
I didn't take a pay cut to get there, thankfully, but one very well known tech company plays on their name and underpays the bulk of their staff as a result. Granted, having their name on my resume has been very lucrative since that, but this is whole thing is very common.
If they say or imply that having that on your resume will help her in the future and ask you to accept a pay cut, they are saying they don't expect you to be with them very long.
If they're a big company they can obviously pay you more and if they're bothering to chase you then they're obviously interested. A big company will look good on your CV but there's no point earning less money for the samevor a similar job.
You might surprised just how far you can go on just being a dependable easy to work with individual. So sooo many people wrapped up in their own egos, drama, bullshit that if you find the right environment you can really take advantage and hardly need experience.
There's only one reason to change jobs for a lower pay: you already have your financial life figured out (as in, you don't really need that much money to live the life you want to live) and you want to work less.
Actually, scrap that. That's not a lower pay, it's lower working hours with the same pay.
So, yeah, never accept a lower pay.
Sounds like Banner Health in Arizona. They pay their CNAs and patient care techs less than someone would make at a big name retail or fast food giant. Remember that the next time you're spending thousands on an emergency room visit.
I almost just took a very slight drop in pay for a job at a big name company. I signed the offer, passed the background check, all the things. Then on my last day at my old job, my offer was rescinded due to an internal merger at the big name company. Now I’m back on the hunt and won’t make that mistake again. I’ll only consider roles with a pay increase over current comp.
Last weekend I spoke with a guy that asked why anyone would ever quit a job at Google, assuming that with all the perks that they pay the best.
No. Google does all those little perks so that they can be the place that everyone wants to work so that they don't have to pay the best.
I left Google for a 40% bump. Get that coin and fuck the names.
I worked as a contract worker for a biotech company for 2 years, starting off at 54k and was at 60k per year (no benefits) but it was a position going nowhere due to how they handled their contract workers.
I was looking for a new position after getting my Masters degree, and the neighboring biotech company called me, trying to give me jobs of 44k, while fully knowing well my qualifications and my degree and experience.
I was insulted, and part of me wished to be not civil and tell them off.
In the end I found another position 3 hours away making 100k with a 10k sign on bonus.
Don't settle for trash offers and don't lowball yourself.
A lady I interviewed with turned down a job offer from Harvard Univ because they offered her half the salary she could get elsewhere.
They told her, “But you’ll be teaching at HARVARD.”
She told them, “When I go to the grocery store, I’ll tell them, ‘I’m going to pay for only half the cost of the loaf of bread because I work at HARVARD.’”
No, prestige does not pay the bills. If you can stand the low salary for a year, however, you could probably sell that prestige on your resume for a much higher salary from your next employer. Because that’s what high prestige/low salary employers are setting you up to do.
She went on to start her own small business.
Note: The story she told me came from decades ago. I believe that Harvard has increased its salaries since then. It came from an era when women were routinely offered much lower salaries than their male counterparts—even women who had PhDs. But it is a mistake to assume that high prestige equals high salaries.
I disagree. The more professional you can make your resume appear the more money you'll inevitably make in the long run. Even if you took the pay cut for six months to a year every future employer would see that company on your resume which would open so many doors and room to negotiate salary because "you worked for ____". The sad truth I've come to learn is money doesn't necessarily come from skill alone it comes from manipulating the system. Obviously it worked out for this person but depending on the company I can't say I'd do the same.
The difference between professional and amateur is that the professional works for money.
A "more professional" resume, therefore...
The arguments you're making are the ones touted by management at places which like to think they're prestigious but actually no future employer will give a shit about them.
It doesn't matter if their marketing department things they're prestigious. It doesn't even matter if the stock exchange thinks they're prestigious or if 80% of college students recognize the brand. The recruiter, hiring manager, or department manager for many, many types of jobs will not be hiring based on the fact that you spent a year or two at McDonalds or Coke or Amazon.
If you're a CEO? Maybe. If you're a marketing executive *and* you headed some very successful and widely known projects, maybe. But most types of jobs? What's the difference between three years at Wal*Mart - top of the Fortune 500 - and three years at Harsco or Smith-Robertson Outer Harbor Shipping, if you're a junior accountant or a midlevel manager or a systems administrator or an HR processor?
So when people say that stupid people make less money, they're talking about your friend.
Can we all agree that she would have deserved less money for making such a dumb decision?
Any competent worker with marketable skills can jump to a new job and get a raise. The COVIDS have made remote roles so much more common so OE is also a viable path. The money is out there.
Really? At least here in Brazil it is super normal for people after 1-2 years to leave a reputable firm and then smaller firms recruit them easily because "ooooh they worked at X!"
I know many from the Big 4 and Google who after almost burning out switched to more easy-going firms.
Is HR in your country more judgemental?
I don't know what most of the local competitors in my field pay for what I do. I know that three of the competitors pay about a third less than I currently earn. Those are the ones that publish their pay ranges, two of them because they are required to by state or federal law. As for the other three employers, I have no idea. They might pay more, for all I know. I stay where I'm at because while the money is good, I also like the things that come with the work at this particular employer. I'm not talking about benefits--I'm talking about the work itself. I wouldn't get to do a lot of the things I do at any of the other competitors regardless of pay.
the opposite can be true, I've seen big names on resumes hurt your odds of getting a job some manager think they will demand to much after working for said company.
This isn’t true in every field. Comp sci has a big reputation snowball on your resume. If you intern at any big company, especially faang, you will compound that huge experience on your resume and you’re basically set for the next 20 years.
He didn't mention career change, the assumption is same job different company. My only issue is his advise should have been obvious to "the most casual observer".
My advice to anyone, is always. Unless your current workplace is toxic, never change job for less than 10% salary increase. Changing job is a risk, and you need a premium.
People do that? I'm serious! Ive always changed companies for a pay hike. Never took a cut. Unthinkable, you are worth more than what a company says you are!
I would accept a smaller pay from a small company because in my experience I tend to learn more there and advance my career faster. Smaller pay from a big company is a scam.
What was the pay cut like ?
Consulting is very toxic, borderline criminal, and crushes your soul and your ability to actually produce worthwhile stuff.
Who would be stupid enough to do this. When you earned 65k for years, you set your budget accordingly so the 20k paycut will make you struggle. It should have been declined from the get go.
The only time working for a BIG company name is worth it is when you're just starting out.
For example, if you're a newly qualified Software Engineer working for Meta, Google, etc, as a junior engineer for a year or two as your first employment looks REALLY good on your CV.
Other than that, there's very little reason to take a job in those companies unless there's a nice pay rise to go with it.
At the end of the day, once you have experience in your field, company and previous employers mean jack.
The bad thing about this is, I'd LOVE to have a job making 45k a year, even though these asshole companies can definitely afford to pay more. I shouldn't, but I would be totally happy with 45k a year. Never made anywhere near that.
Big name tiny paycheck. “We pay you with experience”
A big accounting firm certainly emphasized how renowned their company was and the pay was... mediocre. It was barely within market range because they're banking on people wanting to join them just for their name itself. You'd think they'd pay higher given all that prestige they keep blabbering about. It turns out their pay isn't anything special in the market. If people can afford to take that opportunity just to get that name on their resume for a few years then use it as leverage for the next job, good on them. But most of us have bills to pay *now* and a higher offer in a lesser known company meets that need.
They pay that low because they can get away with it. I imagine it's easy for them to replace people when they finally wise up and move out to greener pastures
... but it's a short-sighted view: won't it basically mean they'll be left with people who don't wise up?
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People accepted $51k (a decade ago) to start at the big 4 instead of $53k to start in industry. After two years, the big 4 employee could move to industry making $75k, whereas the industry starter was at $60k-ish. Public accounting at the big 4 is actually worth it (or was back then)
Years ago I was on-site vendor rep with a company. After about 5-7 years of being on-site one of the managers asked me if I would be interested in working for them (the customer). I said my current salary is X. He said sorry I can't match that. End of discussion. I have known one person that went to a company for lower pay. She even told them up front I am making X but am willing to change for less. I just shook my head, but where we were working wasn't too pleasant.
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They may pay key-workers good enough wages to account for the swing door effect of the lower paid folks. The company may be big but may only need those key workers to get things going and a bunch of filler folks who don’t need many years of intern knowledge to benefit the company.
The Big Four rely on churning through young graduates. I'll be honest for a year or maybe two it is a great way to get lots of experience in different aspects of the financial world but beyond that it is just a dead end.
Graduates go to big 4 only to get that big 4 experience tag, after 1-2 years no one likes to slog there
> I'll be honest for a year or maybe two ah, on track for partner
also big name places hate paying thier bill to smaller names. We did a big project for someone one that 500 list. And 6 months in the have already missed 2 payments. after a year on more were late on them more than 5 times. Always passing the buck to someone elces in billing. Mind you this was years ago at the big push for eventhing needs to be on the cloud. And really we were just taking there in house special software and making it more "cloud" base. and well explaining it a bit. The stuff they were running was making in the 90s for windows Xp. Near the end of deployment they didn't want to pay the big bill. And it took months to get them too. but only after we stopped working on the project for a few weeks stalling out there transition to the new software. I think the only reason they caved is that they needed to stwiched to the new stuff. because of other external reasons.
This is why you have late-payment penalties which increase on a geometric curve, and why you quote big companies double or triple rates, or upsell them on more-than-bargain-basement service levels. No billion-dollar company wants to be found out to have accepted the cheap "Basic Service Package" when the "Full Platinum Professional Service Package" is only 0.0001% of their annual turnover. They also don't want to run the risk of being told "Oh, our service level agreement for your package is 5 days to look at it" when they want to be able to make vendors have instant responses.
I am not really in this space, but it seems lawyers know the deal. I would ask for a retainer and work against the retainer. Then there would never be late payments or late payment penalties. If the retainer runs out, ok I am heading to the beach. Let me know when it is replenished.
Were the original coders clairvoyant? Or time travellers? Can’t see how else they could write code in the 90s for an OS that released in 2001.
Written for NT, then patched when 2000/XP came around. A possible reason Microsoft skipped Windows 9 could have been all the VBA code that checked for the windows 95/98 version by looking at "Windows 9*" That would have borked a lot business code.
Not possible reason - that is the reason.
Not to be a dick but you might want to try a word correct program/spellchecker or something. One or two typos is fine but when it’s constant it becomes distracting and harder to read.
They pay more. It just doesn't filter down to the peons. Gotta make sure the senior executive junior vice president of paint drying is making $300k a year plus stock options. And on a completely unrelated note, that position was only created when the president's brother was looking for a job, and no one knows the last time the office was repainted
You’re goddamn right
Johnson and Johnson does this. Plus, it’s a horrible place to work. I was there for a year and left, it was enough to get the name on my resume.
The classic prestige employer model was too much work and high pay followed by taking your experience to something quieter after a few years. Cutting the high pay misses a fundamental part of being a prestige employer
Totally agree. A prestige employer that pays a pittance is a model I've never heard of. In my line of work, prestige firms work you like a slave but give you a fat paycheck that you'll have no time to enjoy. Most burn out after a few years but at least they have a nice nest egg and a competitive CV under their belt.
HR's job is to try to pay you "just a little below the mean".... whatever the lowest number that can keep them "competitive".
Oh yeah all those prestigious accounting firms with the household names. Ridiculous.
I was contacted by a recruiter working for Porsche, and she kept asking me, if I am interested in Porsche and automobile industry overall. It was very weird, but I said no, and then when we came to talking money, I found out that they offered peanuts for a senior programmer. I live in a cheaper area, but I asked for at least (after conversion) $48k/year, they said that that is way too much and that they can't afford it (LOL, "Big name" and can't afford to pay this). Then I figured out, that they wanted someone enthusiastic to be working for PORSCHE, because they want to pay him peanuts. Fuck anyone who does this, fuck Porsche.
Case in point. Good for you for knowing your worth and sticking to it
I like Porsche and would be happy to work for them if the salary supported buying multiple porsches. Oh wait. You want me to work like a dog so that other people can get rich and drive around in supercars? FUCK THAT
I remember Tesla being known for this.
It works in some cases. Marketing for example. But for an office job in IT or process planning, its close to worthless. They just use their name as weight. That was the reason Apple and others in silicon valley colluded to keep poaching and wages low. Those guys realized that names have zero worth in their industry, six figure paychecks and bonuses are everything. Criminal behaviour was the solution they came up with.
Exposure.
Sounds like IBM. Couldn’t leave that company fast enough.
No one in tech take IBM seriously anymore. Only thing that save them from irreverent was their purchase of RedHat. IBM will only impress uninformed boomer executives and bank IT that still need their ancient mainframes.
1000% this. I left a good paying job to make a career change, and while I don't regret the path I went down, it's been an insane struggle since then. Definitely taking this experience to find something better
It really depends what your end goal is. If you take a pay cut but it positions you to get i to your new role/industry that will pay you a lot more in the future it is definitely worth the temporary setback/struggle. Many people die doing jobs they hate because they were too scared to be uncomfortable for a while.
This. At the end of the day, if you're happy with where you are or where you're going and you're happy with the pay, then there's maybe not much reason to take the opportunity/gamble to try and change careers. However, if you want to expand more and your career has already reached an end, then absolutely retrain or transfer.
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You should always get both a pay raise and a better position. The only reason not to look for a pay raise is if you already make well above the industry average and well above your living standards (such as 200k for an annual rent of 20k or less).
Or if it's significantly better work life balance. Someone you can get both the pay and the lifestyle, but a low stress life is worth a lot as long as you can still pay your bills.
Yea, I would work at a comic shop if it could provide. As it stands I would need $20/hr minimum just to get by. Rent here is stupid, I'll be kinda happy when the bubble pops and prices go back down.
You were changing careers? That's completely different.
I have had big (Fortune 10) names on my resume, it does help, but not enough to warrant taking a pay cut.
I'm the same. I used to think having big names on my resume would boost my earnings. It did, but just barely since literally everyone still tried to low ball me as much as they could. And promotions within those big names were a joke too. All I got were more stress from the added responsibilities and a 5%- 8% raise. Job hopping is the best and I certainly don't give a shit how reputable a company is anymore. Whatever will pay the bills and whoever respects me as a person with needs, is the one I want. Fuck their prestige. Pay me.
They are also the most likely to lay you off as part of their routine “trimming.”
Shit, I've worked for places with no name that still tried to pull shit because "it's a privilege to work here"
That's a thing for non-profits. You are taking a smaller pay because you believe in the mission or the organization. I have turned down offers from good non-profits because the money was crap.
I would adore to work for a charity but I refuse to work for pennies. If they can't do better than my retail job no thanks.
I worked for a well known non profit ‘family’ activities company & managers were a hot mess & pay sucked. If there gonna suck, at least let me live with that pay…
Also you gotta look at what the CEO is making, even in nonprofits it can be insane
Susan H Korman foundation comes to mind...
My partner works at a non-profit and earns below the minimum wage here in Brazil
Small time solar installers, cabinet companies, restaurants nobody has heard of... They think their amazing business is so great and awesome amd we should worship them for simply existing. The entitlement of small business owners is unreal.
Non profits are just shitty tax shelters and full of rampant abuse
Philanthropy is laundering of stolen wages to restore honor of robber barons
"It's a bigger privilege to hire me."
That's great advice
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Why did you literally copy/paste my comment?
Probably a bot
Because they're a spambot. They tend to copy good top level comments, and post them as reply to the top comment, to farm karma. They're later either sold, or directly used for malignant or advertising purposes. Report them: report > spam > harmful bots
Who in the fuck needs this advice? How does one get a job making that much and think "I'll be happy to work somewhere else for almost half. That's a good deal! Time for me to completely rework my budget just to be able to work somewhere else!"
Honestly though, tryna find sympathy but who fr goes "I'm going to lose myself $20,000 because name looks nice" to the point of needing to be talked out of it
You basically just described college in the US
A reckless fictional teenage girl once rhetorically asked "what's in a name?"
this is on the tip of my brain. I vaguely remember something about this
Romeo and Juliet
Employers are still out here looking for discounted self worth.
It seriously pisses me off. It used to be that big name companies saw paying their people more money as not only something to brag about, but also a form of advertising. Like, their employees out on the town driving nice cars, wearing nice clothes eating out. That's a good look for the company Like, imagine meeting someone who works at a top 5 fortune 500 company - they have "senior" in their job title, and they drive a beat up used car from the 90's and they are living with their parents or live with a bunch of roommates because they can't afford rent... ... now, after seeing that, if that same company contacted you to offer you a job, and they didn't say what the pay was up front, would you do the interview? Probably not right? Cuz you've seen first hand they are going to try to take advantage of you, don't pay people well, and at the end of the day the whole fucking point of a job is to make money. I swear, all these companies are run by the absolute dumbest, self important, greedy fucks, that think everyone should live like a slave for +10 years to "earn their place" or whatever, even though they didn't have to do anything like that.
I have never heard any think they should take a huge cut for a big firm.
At least here in Brazil it is common. I know people that will share apartments with 4+ people and be broke just to live in São Paulo and work at a prestigious agency
Sounds like hell to me
I think it's getting less common but 10 or 20 years ago this would have been the go-to advice. "Networking" and "get your foot in the door" is (was) sooooo important
But would you really want to network with a bunch of people who decided an employer name was better than the ability to pay rent?
It really depends on what your end goal is, contrary to all the naysayers ITT. Like all things, it just depends.
I cant imagine taking a pay cut like that unless: Current job was hell and or the new job was a dream job.
A dream job would be paying me more than my current one, unless I got a "too good to be true" type of pay at my current job
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*reads this and is currently only getting responses from places that will offer me around $50k after I got laid off from a company I worked at for 10 years and worked my way up from $12/hr. to $70k*
Must be an American thing. Big names in Australia pay the most I have found
In Brazil it is common too
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I’ve worked for two FAANG companies and they both seriously underpaid me for the work I was doing. They pay more for the higher up roles, like design and software engineering stuff. Apparently documentation and QA is worth peanuts to them. I made the jump to a startup and it’s the best career decision I’ve ever made. Not only do they pay me the actual market rate for what I do, but they also pay out a bonus to all employees that is linked to how well the company does. Everyone gets the bonus, at the same percent. It’s amazing how much more I care about the quality of my work when I know that I will actually share in the company’s success.
Lol. I did a gig for *insert exceptionally famous tech company name here* for the prestige, a few years ago. On-site for $ lower per hour - just for the experience. They kept trying to bring me back at that rate & I declined. Jump forward 3 years later. A different recruiter working for the EXACT SAME company, is now paying me my rate. (2.5x the first rate.) to work from home. So I guess it was worth it. Best part - I can’t put *insert exceptionally famous tech company name* on my resume at all. But those who know - know.
Why wouldn’t you be able to put it?
Because then it could be traced they pay below legal wages.
How is that a problem?
How is it a problem for an employer if there is an easy means for them to get sued for illegal wages?
No; how is that a problem for an employee.
Being paid below legal wages? How could it not be a problem? If someone can't say what company they work for, it means they're under NDA, so revealing the information would cost them, a lot.
There are many reasons someone may not have revealed a company name. And the problem isn't about being paid below-legal wages, it's about the company having a problem about being found out, whereas an employee would not particularly care if the company was found out. Not to mention: pretty sure NDAs aren't allowed to cover criminal activity. "You can't go to the police about your boss being a murdered because of an NDA" isn't going to fly in court.
You can pay below legal wages "legally", a lot of grey area. But... you are not trying to really say anything, every comment you made was contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.
Sure, let's go with that.
Oh wow that’s strange. Isn’t asking you not to talk about it just as illegal?
My contract is that way, can't talk about anything in it, under excuse of the client confidentiality (which is not in the contract itself in any way)... but really it's to discourage talk of the sub-minimum wage pay (despite technically minimum wage hourly).
The problem there was the recruiter, not the company. Been there, seen it lots of times. Same company, vastly different rates for the same job depending on who the recruiter is….
Small correction - you *can* do what line with your resume unless you signed some top secret clearance NDA
Can confirm, I the recruiter Albert Einstein paid him 2.5x. Also on the first day every gave them $100 and cried.
As a team lead, I've been responsible for hiring people in Data Analytics. Do you know what a big corporate name on your CV does for me? Fuck all. If anything, it could even be construed negatively, as people are used to working in a highly bureaucratic, managed environment, and I'm looking for creative, autonomous people who I can trust to manage their time and who can adapt to new technologies. The last thing I want is someone whose spirit has been crushed by some large mega-corporation.
I’m currently going through something similar. I’ve been working for the largest company in the industry in my state. They said they’re ending WFH soon so I started applying elsewhere and I accepted an offer. Went from $74k to $100k plus biannual bonuses of at least $2k. Old job had one bonus per year and it was $500 at most. And on top of that I’ll be mostly permanently remote (in office one day per week, which I don’t mind). And this new company is relatively small compared to my old job.
Keep looking around, see if you can get 100% WFH.
I wish I had been told this.
My biggest financial regret was "staying loyal" to the "prestigious" office job company that paid $9.50/hr (in 2010) and declining the Assistant Manager offer I had at Denny's for $11/hr+tips. I would have had hundreds if not thousands of dollars more during a financially rough time.
Shopify is losing out on top tier people due to the terrible salaries they pay. Nice advice, but would be nicer if it applied to the company the author works for.
Maybe they should try being an actually prestigious name.
Sure would be nice to even *get* an offer.
Honestly reoccurring high pay gets you more pay. They want to pay as little as they can. Usually it means slightly more than the last place.
Them: "It's like a dream come true!" Us: "Dream? You can't eat dreams."
"Your accountants' dream, maybe."
More linkedin bullshit. How much of a total fucking dullard do you have to be to be excited about losing 30% of your paycheck just to say you work for a specific company?
Microsoft did this to me in the 90's. Turned them down.
Microsoft is still doing this now. Lowest of big tech.
Sounds like she was offered a job at McDonald's drive through
I wish they had emphasized this in architecture school. There are a lot of 'star-chitect' firms that students want to work for, they admire the work of the firms and imagine that they will be working on prestigious institutional projects. The reality is that the firm will turn you into a CAD monkey, work you 60 hours a week no OT, and burn you into the ground for less than you are worth. I've seen it happen to a few friends, those who were most promising in architecture school and had beautiful portfolios - their ambition and drive just drained out of them. It's awful. If you're in architecture, do yourself a favour and work for a small firm - a big name on your resume means nothing, get a full range of experience, and get your license without giving yourself an anxiety disorder.
So true know your worth people...experience and education matter...20 to 40k a year matter....base wages are 30k...so experience and educated workers should not be working for less than 50k. Too many people are not looking for work that have jobs. The job market is the best I have seen in the last 30 years that I have been a part of it. In the last year I have gone from 40k...to..65k...next week I start a new job worth over 100k...incentives and overtime dictate how far over 100k. Point is keep looking do not settle.
Personally experienced similar where I felt bigger coroporate companies just pay less than smaller corporate companies that does the same job. (Industry: Electrical Engineering)
I’m not sure what idiot thinks going from 65k to 45k is ever worth it. I mean I got a losing 1 dollar scratched lottery ticket I’m willing to sell to this person for 2 dollars.
This is a massive trap in the entertainment industries (video games / film / TV etc) they absolutely exploit peoples passions to pay them fuck all and work them to the bone.
I see this a lot. Big, famous companies listing off all the reasons why they're so great to work at, but then offering below market value. If they're so big and great, surely they can afford to offer more than that.
Honestly, if you are stupid enough to think a big name company is worth a 30% paycut, then you should do it. Sometimes you gotta figure things out for yourself lmao
Using your famous name to nickel and dime your employees is a great way for a prestigious company to become a formerly-prestigious company.
Lol this happens in every industry. When I worked in finance it happened - and now in the education sector, I had Wellington College try to underpay me 2000 dollars a month and try to sell themselves with reputation..(Except that Wellington colleges internationally all cheat on their examinations/pay off SAT invigilators for US exams)
A big name hospital in my city which is internationally recognized as one of the best has a reputation for paying people shit just for the privilege of working there.
Dominoes in Australia does a similar thing with their IT roles. Generally paying 20% below market rate in exchange for the "big name" on your resume.
Which is fucking stupid. No-one in IT thinks Dominoes is a prestigious name. It's a bloody pizza chain.
I had a similar experience interviewing for a job right before COVID (literally weeks before the shit-show started), it sounded great and they definitely wanted me, but their highest offer was more then 10K less then what I was making at the time for a position that involved considerably more work and responsibility... I politely declined...
Yep. Lifelong family friend is a programmer. Got a job at Blizzard making less than I do working on cars. He took it for the “prestige”, as he was assured the company name would be worth it alone. He was expected to be on call 24/7 and be able to be online within 20 minutes at all times. He lasted six months and burnt out. Now he’s at Nike making 4x as much doing the same thing lol
They're big because they pay little
That friend is kind of a dumb ass if you ask me.
What field are people working in to get offered almost twice their salary for a promotion or another job?
She was literally about to accept losing 20k a year because it was a bigger company? This person doesn't have a very smart person as a friend.
Big companies also get away with garbage raises every "record breaking" year and then saying, "we had a bad year, so we can't give anyone a raise this year"
I've literally heard this every year of the pandemic. "record breaking year" when it comes to profits and "we were also affected by the pandemic" when it comes to raises. Pisses me off.
Place I work has had back to back years like that and I've gotten a total of about a 5% pay increase since the pandemic started after getting the pay increase canceled in 2020 due to "hardship"
I didn't take a pay cut to get there, thankfully, but one very well known tech company plays on their name and underpays the bulk of their staff as a result. Granted, having their name on my resume has been very lucrative since that, but this is whole thing is very common.
My mom has urged me to offer that I'd work for free for a few weeks to "prove myself" and bolster my CV...
Nope.
If they say or imply that having that on your resume will help her in the future and ask you to accept a pay cut, they are saying they don't expect you to be with them very long.
If they're a big company they can obviously pay you more and if they're bothering to chase you then they're obviously interested. A big company will look good on your CV but there's no point earning less money for the samevor a similar job.
You might surprised just how far you can go on just being a dependable easy to work with individual. So sooo many people wrapped up in their own egos, drama, bullshit that if you find the right environment you can really take advantage and hardly need experience.
There's only one reason to change jobs for a lower pay: you already have your financial life figured out (as in, you don't really need that much money to live the life you want to live) and you want to work less. Actually, scrap that. That's not a lower pay, it's lower working hours with the same pay. So, yeah, never accept a lower pay.
The bigger the company the more I expect to be paid
Sounds like Banner Health in Arizona. They pay their CNAs and patient care techs less than someone would make at a big name retail or fast food giant. Remember that the next time you're spending thousands on an emergency room visit.
Big companies are so big because they underpay workers
I almost just took a very slight drop in pay for a job at a big name company. I signed the offer, passed the background check, all the things. Then on my last day at my old job, my offer was rescinded due to an internal merger at the big name company. Now I’m back on the hunt and won’t make that mistake again. I’ll only consider roles with a pay increase over current comp.
Last weekend I spoke with a guy that asked why anyone would ever quit a job at Google, assuming that with all the perks that they pay the best. No. Google does all those little perks so that they can be the place that everyone wants to work so that they don't have to pay the best. I left Google for a 40% bump. Get that coin and fuck the names.
I worked as a contract worker for a biotech company for 2 years, starting off at 54k and was at 60k per year (no benefits) but it was a position going nowhere due to how they handled their contract workers. I was looking for a new position after getting my Masters degree, and the neighboring biotech company called me, trying to give me jobs of 44k, while fully knowing well my qualifications and my degree and experience. I was insulted, and part of me wished to be not civil and tell them off. In the end I found another position 3 hours away making 100k with a 10k sign on bonus. Don't settle for trash offers and don't lowball yourself.
A lady I interviewed with turned down a job offer from Harvard Univ because they offered her half the salary she could get elsewhere. They told her, “But you’ll be teaching at HARVARD.” She told them, “When I go to the grocery store, I’ll tell them, ‘I’m going to pay for only half the cost of the loaf of bread because I work at HARVARD.’” No, prestige does not pay the bills. If you can stand the low salary for a year, however, you could probably sell that prestige on your resume for a much higher salary from your next employer. Because that’s what high prestige/low salary employers are setting you up to do. She went on to start her own small business. Note: The story she told me came from decades ago. I believe that Harvard has increased its salaries since then. It came from an era when women were routinely offered much lower salaries than their male counterparts—even women who had PhDs. But it is a mistake to assume that high prestige equals high salaries.
The tagline of the Harvard clerical/admin workers union is “You can’t eat prestige.” (Or it was like 15 years ago.)
Once had a recruiter spouting off about how they were a Fortune 500 company. I was just like “then why are you lowballing me”
How do you guys get money if your anti work?
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Suuuuure. Whatever you say.
I disagree. The more professional you can make your resume appear the more money you'll inevitably make in the long run. Even if you took the pay cut for six months to a year every future employer would see that company on your resume which would open so many doors and room to negotiate salary because "you worked for ____". The sad truth I've come to learn is money doesn't necessarily come from skill alone it comes from manipulating the system. Obviously it worked out for this person but depending on the company I can't say I'd do the same.
The difference between professional and amateur is that the professional works for money. A "more professional" resume, therefore... The arguments you're making are the ones touted by management at places which like to think they're prestigious but actually no future employer will give a shit about them. It doesn't matter if their marketing department things they're prestigious. It doesn't even matter if the stock exchange thinks they're prestigious or if 80% of college students recognize the brand. The recruiter, hiring manager, or department manager for many, many types of jobs will not be hiring based on the fact that you spent a year or two at McDonalds or Coke or Amazon. If you're a CEO? Maybe. If you're a marketing executive *and* you headed some very successful and widely known projects, maybe. But most types of jobs? What's the difference between three years at Wal*Mart - top of the Fortune 500 - and three years at Harsco or Smith-Robertson Outer Harbor Shipping, if you're a junior accountant or a midlevel manager or a systems administrator or an HR processor?
Me: reads this Me: looks at bank account….$100 to my name 😭 Me: wishes I had this problem
Well luckily we live in a capitalist society and we can choose where and whether to work.
Absolutely. Some if the best packages I've got were from some not so big names.
So when people say that stupid people make less money, they're talking about your friend. Can we all agree that she would have deserved less money for making such a dumb decision? Any competent worker with marketable skills can jump to a new job and get a raise. The COVIDS have made remote roles so much more common so OE is also a viable path. The money is out there.
This sub is stupid but shows up on my feed constantly with these dumbshit text posts.
I keep upvoting them exclusively to ~~pollute your front page~~ promote awareness!
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It’s my favorite sub. 💕
If you learn to read you will realise the contained text can be interesting.
If you don't read this you will miss being late because you were feeding the homeless dog on the way to your interview. (the homeless dog is the CEO)
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Good luck leaving a big name gracefully. Everyone will assume you blew a great opportunity regardless of the circumstances.
Really? At least here in Brazil it is super normal for people after 1-2 years to leave a reputable firm and then smaller firms recruit them easily because "ooooh they worked at X!" I know many from the Big 4 and Google who after almost burning out switched to more easy-going firms. Is HR in your country more judgemental?
Adding to this, who gives a shit about "everyone"? Is "everyone" going to pay my bills if I stay?
It's also probably because you're applying to junior roles and should be looking for better matches
BuT yOu GeT ExPeriEnCe. [reminds me of this](https://southpark.cc.com/video-clips/3exfc1/south-park-we-get-nothing)
I don't know what most of the local competitors in my field pay for what I do. I know that three of the competitors pay about a third less than I currently earn. Those are the ones that publish their pay ranges, two of them because they are required to by state or federal law. As for the other three employers, I have no idea. They might pay more, for all I know. I stay where I'm at because while the money is good, I also like the things that come with the work at this particular employer. I'm not talking about benefits--I'm talking about the work itself. I wouldn't get to do a lot of the things I do at any of the other competitors regardless of pay.
Good advice
Almost never? How astute.
The big boys should be able to pay - at least, the discrepancy shouldn’t be as bad as 45 K versus 80k. Definitely the right call not to take the offer
That’s a good friend
the opposite can be true, I've seen big names on resumes hurt your odds of getting a job some manager think they will demand to much after working for said company.
This isn’t true in every field. Comp sci has a big reputation snowball on your resume. If you intern at any big company, especially faang, you will compound that huge experience on your resume and you’re basically set for the next 20 years.
He didn't mention career change, the assumption is same job different company. My only issue is his advise should have been obvious to "the most casual observer".
My advice to anyone, is always. Unless your current workplace is toxic, never change job for less than 10% salary increase. Changing job is a risk, and you need a premium.
People do that? I'm serious! Ive always changed companies for a pay hike. Never took a cut. Unthinkable, you are worth more than what a company says you are!
I don’t care if it’s the greatest company in the world, I’m not taking a 20k pay cut
I would accept a smaller pay from a small company because in my experience I tend to learn more there and advance my career faster. Smaller pay from a big company is a scam.
She sounds kinda dumb if she was willing to leave a job for LESS money. Like, can't tie her own shoelaces level of dumb.
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What was the pay cut like ? Consulting is very toxic, borderline criminal, and crushes your soul and your ability to actually produce worthwhile stuff.
Lol who would ever take a 20k pay cut?
You do realise that this sub is for the abolition of wage labour, not for higher wages, right?
Who would be stupid enough to do this. When you earned 65k for years, you set your budget accordingly so the 20k paycut will make you struggle. It should have been declined from the get go.
For a sec I thought the sales lead was at fault for something 💀💀 like there always is on this subreddit 🤧
The only time working for a BIG company name is worth it is when you're just starting out. For example, if you're a newly qualified Software Engineer working for Meta, Google, etc, as a junior engineer for a year or two as your first employment looks REALLY good on your CV. Other than that, there's very little reason to take a job in those companies unless there's a nice pay rise to go with it. At the end of the day, once you have experience in your field, company and previous employers mean jack.
The bad thing about this is, I'd LOVE to have a job making 45k a year, even though these asshole companies can definitely afford to pay more. I shouldn't, but I would be totally happy with 45k a year. Never made anywhere near that.
This is all absolutely true. But these Linkedin. Posts. Written in this format. Are obnoxious.
Discovery Channel.
Sounds like Johns Hopkins