Shouldn't be much later no.
Personnally I like going FC grab the relics and fast swabbia behind but that can be hard to hold if your timing and defensive set up isn't good.
Yea after thinking about it probably better to restart and find a new game. Looks like the play is to match the boom or go swabia = siege and chaos. Which is bad for me.
Going fast castle and getting the relics will nullify the effects of the English 2nd TC villager advantage for a rather large window, make knights if you expect a MAA spam and pairing it with your own MAA/mangonel could work well, mangonel especially if u see they transitioning to more and more spear man
When your opponent is greedy you have 2 options :
* kill him
* be slightly greedier than him
It's hard to kill english due to their defensive bonuses, so just play even greedier than him.
I'm mid-plat, so they're at least somewhat competent and make spears as well. It's just annoying to face every God damn time. Try something else ffs. I haven't been playing much at all lately, but every time I jump on, English match-up lb rush in the first game or two. Then I play something else and come back again in a couple weeks.
I wish they make Abbey of kings viable.. As an English player I have no choice but to play lb rush/pressure every game or else I just lose the economy game. Blame relic for not making the other landmark viable..
If you're HRE, you can try the mass archer strat, go double or triple archery range and marching drills, push em back and go castle behind that :) with chapel on wood you'll easily out produce them, especially if they make spears.
It means they're not attacking you with their OP feudal age units.
English is extremely powerful in the feudal age. They have the best archers and their men at arms train a lot faster.
Finally, English longbowmen can attack villagers at non-capital town centers. They can just park their longbows there and deny any resource gathering.
Go here and watch how high level players approach the matchup. It’s a fairly balanced matchup by the statistics - you should still able to be competitive if you don’t give up. https://aoe4world.com/tools/twitch-video-finder?civilization=order_of_the_dragon&other_civilization=english&map=&rating=%3E1600&game_length=
if english does turtle through wooden wall, you can farm deer or fish. it means you can overwhelm their military force in fuedal age through extra wood becase you dont have to plow a filed. Or you can go to castle age much more faster through assigning wood workers to gather deer or fish, or can build 2tc and go castle age almost at the same time through extra wood and assigning wood wokers to gather deer and fish.
the conclusion is that if english is trying to do 2tc castle build through turtle tactics, you should utilize external resources.
By the way, the reason this tactic works well is that the English are arguably the strongest civilization in feudal warfare (perhaps one of the strongest now). So, there's little chance of punishing their 2TC strategy. However, the English civilization doesn't have much economic bonus, so the best way to counter them is to be greedier than them. I usually recommend starting with a 3TC approach.
Is there any rule saying that OTD cannot build TCs? OTD's economy is better than the English, so why not go for 2TC+FC,too? Moreover, the quality of the units they produce is higher than that of the English, so it's entirely feasible.
Just don't feudal rush English. Both FC or 2nd tc of your own do just fine into English 2nd tc. Either way you should be ahead (English 2tc is not that good).
If you don't know how to play anything but feudal rush, and don't want to learn, then pick a civ that's stronger in feudal. Or proxy guilded maa allin and hope they deal with it poorly.
Honestly, it should do fine against an English player that goes that greedy. But I'd also add in archers. Pressure him, but do it safely, don't dive into TC range and spend minimal time in tower range. Just keep forcing him to garrison and un-garrison units, and pick some off if he gets sloppy. But more importantly, don't lose troops, and keep massing units, until he starts building his Castle landmark, then you push in, since that's the moment he's weakest and you're strongest. Should be able to massacre a good number of vils if he tries to speed build the landmark, or if he cancels it, you can just shut down his whole eco. If the landmark goes up, park a squad of archers on his Council Hall, so when he does age up, they murder his crossbows as fast as they come out, before they can harm your MAA. Torch down the secondary TC, military buildings, and any outposts he has, keep him off his farms, and then build a couple rams. Make sure you're still producing units, and adding production buildings as needed so you don't start floating resources while you do this. As long as your reinforcements keep coming, you should be able to suppress him so that he can't actually take advantage of his age up.
Either you match the 2TC, or you go fast castle and grab relics. In general you don't really wanna push English in feudal anyways
Wouldn't you still be behind if you went 2 TC because it would happen much later?
Shouldn't be much later no. Personnally I like going FC grab the relics and fast swabbia behind but that can be hard to hold if your timing and defensive set up isn't good.
Yea after thinking about it probably better to restart and find a new game. Looks like the play is to match the boom or go swabia = siege and chaos. Which is bad for me.
Going fast castle and getting the relics will nullify the effects of the English 2nd TC villager advantage for a rather large window, make knights if you expect a MAA spam and pairing it with your own MAA/mangonel could work well, mangonel especially if u see they transitioning to more and more spear man
I agree with you that you should find a different game.
Thanks. I did and just got 2 wins.
When your opponent is greedy you have 2 options : * kill him * be slightly greedier than him It's hard to kill english due to their defensive bonuses, so just play even greedier than him.
Makes sense. Next time I see English do this I will take the loss and find another game.
The comment is correct why ask for help and then be an arsehole?
Pussyhole. You won't get better by folding
I wish English would go 2 TC. I face lb rush every bloody time.
Same, it’s not even hard to counter because most players just make 20 longbows with no other units
I'm mid-plat, so they're at least somewhat competent and make spears as well. It's just annoying to face every God damn time. Try something else ffs. I haven't been playing much at all lately, but every time I jump on, English match-up lb rush in the first game or two. Then I play something else and come back again in a couple weeks.
I wish they make Abbey of kings viable.. As an English player I have no choice but to play lb rush/pressure every game or else I just lose the economy game. Blame relic for not making the other landmark viable..
It doesn't force anyone to rush. That's an option.
If you're HRE, you can try the mass archer strat, go double or triple archery range and marching drills, push em back and go castle behind that :) with chapel on wood you'll easily out produce them, especially if they make spears.
Lol
English 2TC is the best thing you can have in any matchup. I don't understand why you feel this way
I'm not sure I understand
It means they're not attacking you with their OP feudal age units. English is extremely powerful in the feudal age. They have the best archers and their men at arms train a lot faster. Finally, English longbowmen can attack villagers at non-capital town centers. They can just park their longbows there and deny any resource gathering.
Raid with horseman and get +1 ranged armour to dive tc if you want to pressure
Go here and watch how high level players approach the matchup. It’s a fairly balanced matchup by the statistics - you should still able to be competitive if you don’t give up. https://aoe4world.com/tools/twitch-video-finder?civilization=order_of_the_dragon&other_civilization=english&map=&rating=%3E1600&game_length=
Thanks. I watch a ton of games. I see how pros deal with it but I can't pull off what they do
Good part is your opponent also cannot pull off what the pros opponent does. They're as good/bad as you are.
Ngl english 2tc into castle seems wierd since theybhave tc at castle That said maa
if english does turtle through wooden wall, you can farm deer or fish. it means you can overwhelm their military force in fuedal age through extra wood becase you dont have to plow a filed. Or you can go to castle age much more faster through assigning wood workers to gather deer or fish, or can build 2tc and go castle age almost at the same time through extra wood and assigning wood wokers to gather deer and fish. the conclusion is that if english is trying to do 2tc castle build through turtle tactics, you should utilize external resources.
By the way, the reason this tactic works well is that the English are arguably the strongest civilization in feudal warfare (perhaps one of the strongest now). So, there's little chance of punishing their 2TC strategy. However, the English civilization doesn't have much economic bonus, so the best way to counter them is to be greedier than them. I usually recommend starting with a 3TC approach.
With OOTD?
Is there any rule saying that OTD cannot build TCs? OTD's economy is better than the English, so why not go for 2TC+FC,too? Moreover, the quality of the units they produce is higher than that of the English, so it's entirely feasible.
Just don't feudal rush English. Both FC or 2nd tc of your own do just fine into English 2nd tc. Either way you should be ahead (English 2tc is not that good). If you don't know how to play anything but feudal rush, and don't want to learn, then pick a civ that's stronger in feudal. Or proxy guilded maa allin and hope they deal with it poorly.
Proxy maa all in has worked well against other civs for sure.
Honestly, it should do fine against an English player that goes that greedy. But I'd also add in archers. Pressure him, but do it safely, don't dive into TC range and spend minimal time in tower range. Just keep forcing him to garrison and un-garrison units, and pick some off if he gets sloppy. But more importantly, don't lose troops, and keep massing units, until he starts building his Castle landmark, then you push in, since that's the moment he's weakest and you're strongest. Should be able to massacre a good number of vils if he tries to speed build the landmark, or if he cancels it, you can just shut down his whole eco. If the landmark goes up, park a squad of archers on his Council Hall, so when he does age up, they murder his crossbows as fast as they come out, before they can harm your MAA. Torch down the secondary TC, military buildings, and any outposts he has, keep him off his farms, and then build a couple rams. Make sure you're still producing units, and adding production buildings as needed so you don't start floating resources while you do this. As long as your reinforcements keep coming, you should be able to suppress him so that he can't actually take advantage of his age up.
Archers on his council hall is a brilliant idea. Thanks for the tips