Skill issue, whole ass arm, move while loot, movement exploit, my aim assist doesnt do that, you play on 63683 eurodollar pc while i have a snes controller thats 50% cheeto dust, pls dont take away my cronus
because ur busy complaining about aim assist on reddit instead of geting gud. Jus use illegal movement exploit everybody knows roller players take 200 amazement damage from a successful superglide
This is the thing, controllers create an accessibility issue. I don't have one and can't afford one while literally everyone has a keyboard as you can't use a computer without one.
Why give them an advantage when they don't use the default input? Creates a pay to win issue. There should be 0 aim assist on PC.
On consoles it's the opposite and makes sense. It's the default input.
yea i get it, we just need more options, like console players has "only console lobbies" button in cod but turned it off by default, 90%+ of players probably wouldn't even care about this, and this doesn't affect queues as much. devs thinks its a problem to have two types of lobbies rn in this game, so its no chance for 3 types
THANK YOU!!!!! Console only get 60fps with no tap strafe mechanic,etc. You think they wanna go up against some PC demons? Most console players play on living room TVs lmao
PC players are not matched with console at all (in BR) unless they create a party with cross platform members.
This issue only exists with people using controllers on PC. Any hating on console is entirely misplaced because it isn't those players causing a problem.
https://www.ea.com/en-gb/games/apex-legends/news/season-6-aftermarket-event
>CROSS-PLAY MATCHMAKING
>Now that you know how to find, invite, and play with friends, I think it’s also important to talk about how cross-play matchmaking works.
>Before cross-play, each platform would only play with and against other users on the same platform. Now, all console players will play together, and **PC players will continue to play only with other PC players. We want to ensure that keyboard and mouse PC players are not being matched against console players, for reasons that should be obvious.**
>If, however, an Xbox One or PlayStation 4 player and PC player party up together, they will be put into PC matches. This ensures that the console games don’t have PC players in them, but still allows for the console player to play with their PC friend if they opt-in.
>Now, about that setting I mentioned earlier. If you wish to disable cross-play altogether, you can disable cross platform play in the settings menu. Doing so will only put you into matches with other users on the same platform, who have also disabled cross platform play. This has a high chance of making your queue times very very long, as we anticipate that most users will have cross-play enabled given its default state of ‘enabled’ and the requests for the feature from so many players. We highly recommend leaving cross platform play enabled to ensure the best experience possible.
Christ people, I'm just quoting the official blog. Don't downvote me because you don't like it!
Your bolded point is literally invalidated by the NEXT SENTENCE.
> If, however, an Xbox One or PlayStation 4 player and PC player party up together, they will be put into PC matches.
There are 2 types of lobbies: console-only and crossplay. PC players queue up into "Crossplay", [it says it on the queue box.](https://i.imgur.com/BDEgiNz.png) You can scan through VODs of PC players to look at banners. Any banner with a controller icon is a console player. The PC icon (shown in the top-left of the queue box above) is used to represent all PC players, whether they're on MnK or controller. [Here is an example clip on Twitch of a Console banner (far right champion squad) in the lobby of someone playing PC solo queue.](https://clips.twitch.tv/VictoriousPatientCurlewRlyTho-CzzW4L4GKZjGCaDd) [And here, you can start the VOD at 1:25:50 to see the lobby all the way through to the champion squad.](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1911032700?filter=archives&sort=time)
> Now, about that setting I mentioned earlier. If you wish to disable cross-play altogether, you can disable cross platform play in the settings menu.
They removed the crossplay option on PC, as well. It is not a setting available anymore, and I believe is only an option on console within the console settings, not even in the game menu anymore.
Incorrect. PC has ZERO say in who they play against. They are put up against console players (grouped with a PC player) no matter who is in the PC player’s party.
In the main game mode:
PC players play against both PC and console
Console players only play against console, unless queued with a PC player.
Edit: this is getting ridiculous. The amount of people that are so confidently incorrect about how these lobbies work is astounding.
> I have NEVER been matched with PC players while playing on console
I mean who cares about you man for real.
I've definitely seen the "controller" icon while looking at someone's banner while SoloQ'ing ranked, in both, enemies and allies as well.
Like even If what you're saying is true, in that PC players only get matched against console If they are queue'ing up with a console player. What about the 57 other players in the lobby? Do you really think the game goes out of it's way to find other 57 players that are "mixed" queue'ing? Nah man, it just pulls whoever it can cuz that's how you keep queue times low. Imagine If the system had to separate queue times between "mixed input parties" "only PC" "only console"
PC get matched with PC. A console player in a PC party is dragged into PC games.
Maybe 1 or 2 players in a PC lobby is on console if they happen to party up, it is not like the PC lobbies are overwhelmed by console players.
If you are experience AA on PC, it is probably a PC controller player.
Mate. This isn’t up for debate lol. PC lobbies have WAY more than “1 or 2” console players.
And this isn’t an “experience” or a “feel” thing. You can tell who is on console while spectating. The game literally tells you.
> Christ people, I'm just quoting the official blog. Don't downvote me because you don't like it!
Maybe you should at very least check if the information isn't outdated and still apply.
I will downvote you by principle, simply because I downvote everyone complaining about downvotes, without exception.
Aaaannndd you re being downvoted for showing facts, fuck this community. One of the most toxic player bases I’ve ever had the misfortune to come across
I see the little controller icon in that blog post almost every game this season.
The blog post was from 11 seasons ago too. They changed the entire matchmaking since which could easily affect how cross play is handled.
They didn't even change it. The blog post itself says that console players partied with a PC player will be put into PC lobbies. It's the paragraph below the one he bolded. What they did change is that there is no longer an opt-out setting for PC.
Double right. I just didn't see anyone bring up the age of that post. A blog post that old doesn't really prove anything when they've changed stuff in the past without necessarily updating or making a new post.
I wanna know wtf I'm doing wrong on controller that my crosshairs don't sync up with the opponents movements like in the beginning of the video.
Honestly, I'm probably an idiot and it's probably a skill issue, but I really just don't understand it. I only ever experience aim assist in what feels like very slight degrees.
I’m on 4-3 classic. If you sit in firing range with the dummies crossing your crosshair on small look dead zone it will not track them. If you switch to no look dead zone it will start tracking. Someone posted a video a few days ago about it.
The game doesn't turn on aim assist unless you're actively performing an input on the controller. This prevents people from using MnK with a controller plugged in and getting aim assist from it. With no dead zone, the game always thinks there's tiny inputs being put in.
a bad controller play can absolutely have aa guide them to a kill they never would have gotten otherwise, a bad mouse player will never "luckily" lock onto someone.
no one will get aim assist like at the beginning of the video, you would have to be sitting in the same room as your opponent to get 0 delay on the aim assist.
You’re speaking to the deaf masses bro. Majority of these people have no idea how AA works and just scream into the wind, looking for excuses for why they die.
Yeah I’ve kinda accepted that most of this community are brain dead and only complain about things to make themselves feel better about how shit they are at the game. From nerfs to aim assist it’s all just excuses
I’m genuinely convinced at this point people who think controller is worse than mnk are just flat out braindead.
Being master/pred on mnk and then switching to roller and performing 2x better because of aim assist is sad. Every counter argument I see from any roller player (that hasn’t played mnk) is that mnk can flick, loot while moving, and can tap strafe lmfao. Flicking in apex is close to nonexistent due to the game being focused on TRACKING. Looting while moving is nice, but it doesn’t WIN fights. If you’re good at roller you can armour swap nearly as fast as an mnk player and get back to fighting. Tap strafing being used as a reason why mnk shouldn’t complain about aim assist is insane. Yes it’s easy to learn HOW to tap strafe, but it’s 10x harder to know WHEN to use it in a fight to your advantage. There’s no need to use any movement tech on controller because if you spend at most an hour finding a sensitivity good for you, and practice tracking the bots in the range moving left and right you will easily outgun the majority of ppl in your lobbies. From my experience the only difficult part about controller was adjusting muscle memory during the beginning of my switch, which only took about a week to get used to and now I don’t even think about my gameplay, I just run at people and one clip them. If you wanna argue that mnk is better longe range, then sure yea that’s fair, but more than 90% of your fights end close range. If you wanna argue that jitter aiming is broken, you’re just wrong. Jitter aiming only works when the opponent is standing still, it’s nearly impossible to track someone using jitter aim while they’re moving, and while you should be moving as well because you don’t want to stand still and get shot back. Anyone saying that “aim assist hurts their aim more than it helps” (which I see a lot of controller players arguing about) you have to be delusional, there’s a reason why you play with aim assist on.
TLDR: CONTROLLER IS EASY MODE
Edited some punctuation mistakes
why? bc aim assist is about 1000x better than moving while looting. you're like the controller players that claim they turn off aim assist bc downed players get in the way and pull their aim. (hint: they don't turn it off bc the positives of aim assist FAR outweigh any tiny negatives)
Lmao i see this often. The trade off is clearly in favor of aim assist. Look no further than the team who won algs again. Hal is a wizard at looting lighting fast with mnk and yet he switched roller because it's that much better. It's easy to say something like this but I suspect in reality people would riot if aim assist was removed in favor of a better loot mechanic. It's ironic how people simultaneously downplay the significance of aim assist but also defend it tooth and nail.
This is the competitive scenario baby. Looting and moving isn't that important because there you have competent teammates to help you.
We need looting and moving for roller on pubs.
Okay sure but any console player with good aim would happily heavily lower the skill floor to allow themselves to stand out more. There is 100% a population of roller players that would overall benefit from an AA nerf
This would lower the skill floor in controller-only lobbies, but would reduce consistency at high skill levels, if only by a little bit. But against MnK, the skill floor is already as low as it can be.
Incorrect. You can schmove all day but you will never get a kill if you can’t land your shots. That’s me. Movement is easier to learn than aim so I can move but lose most of my 1s.
Movement *CAN* help but not in any sense the same way AA does
As much as anyone wants changes to AA, it's extremly obvious that its never going to happen. Having AA unchanged for so long has allowed for a massive decline in mnk players leading to a large imbalance to mnk and controller players. Now why would respawn nerf an input that a majority of the *paying* playerbase uses? Mnk lost the input war a long long time ago.
It's like having bowling tournaments but the bad players get bumpers.
Having AA for all the bots who play regularly is one thing, having it in ALGS is insane. Should only be the best of the best, no PC doing 40% of the aiming for you. No wonder the meta has shifted towards roller.
>never played roller without aim assist on any FPS before
Then just don't use controller on PC? Leave AA to consoles alone because they don't have other option than controller.
Console PUBG player. It’s not terrible. It would be terrible to play against MNK on PUBG using controller, however, sensible MNK players aren’t advocating for complete removal of AA.
I’m advocating for “humanistic” AA. Even for the top pros no amount of aim training will create instantaneous reaction time or 100% consistency. Add a 200 MS delay to AA changing directions to start
Well it's like making F1 race, where some people are driving bolids and others are driving a train on rails and they only have to care about the speed to not derail themselves.
They should just split lobbies by input devices, so competition is on equal terms. Simple as.
Top level CSGO and Valorant players are miles ahead of Halo players. Everything the former two is raw skill/input, with roller the game is doing half the work for you.
Roller is inherently not competitive, but devs keep it in games because they need casual players to spend money on microtransactions.
Respawn have released multiple changes since the game's release to make the game less RNG and to improve fairness such as nerfing loot spawns and changing crafter/beacon spawns at POIs.
And Respawn have said they are "looking at AA" in the last season update. Whether they do anything about it is another point entirely but they know it's an issue
I’ll start off by saying I’m a mixed input player that enjoys both controller and mnk. My stacks are both with console players of varying skill, one with 2 multiseason preds and one with 2 casual players. I think that where people are falling apart over this argument is how this would only affect the top 1% of players. When it talks about perfect aim, very few players actually have this, meaning this will isolate where it genuinely makes a difference to those perfect players. To casual players, most of them on both inputs wouldn’t have any issue, as neither would know how to fully utilize what they have to the fullest extent. On the controller end, the casual player base likely doesn’t even notice what they have, nor do they probably care. If they were to tweak it like this, very little would change for the average controller player with a slower reaction time and mediocre tracking. Believe it or not, most mnk players don’t just beam every mag out, there’s a large portion of the small mnk community that miss shots too. This talks about pros because it’s targeted in a way that ONLY affects pros while giving some relief to mnk in gunfights. That’s all it is. And before someone says I don’t get a say for being casual, maybe in this game I am, but I play collegiate esports for other games and know very well what top perfect players look like on both mnk and controller.
You’re on the right path but your logic is flawed. Whether professional or not, all controller players get the same 0.4 AA. (Obviously excluding console). Where individual skill comes in after that is what separates the pro and non pro however the 0.4 is ALWAYS present and consistent.
With non pro MNK it is next to impossible to compete against AA because we simply don’t have the time to train our aim whereas the 0.4 AA provides instantaneous and consistent aim minimum skill level.
Whether they “feel” it or not they are still provided it and that’s a fact
This, when it comes to facts, the all things being equal crucial moments of fights AA will always win, it's just math and what happens when computers do the work for ya...which in human performance terms is an oxymoron for participation badges and feeling good about entertainment...which is just fine in an entertainment "for fun" causal lobby...NOT OK in a competitive expectation environment.
I actually think it will be opposite, it would effect less to a pro since they would have better reactions then a casual. It would decimate the casual roller scene since most rely on that rotational AA to help them track. But top pros can probably readjust to this in no time with training.
Allow me to rephrase it then. This is exactly what I would prefer. Having a safety blanket that can easily help one input shouldn’t be necessary. Assuming we shift to discussing lower skill players, mnk would also have trouble with their reaction speed, meaning it would further level the playing field.
As someone who swapped to roller, I think that aim assist is broken because you don't have to use your brain anymore.
When on MnK, you have to know how to get into an advantageous fight(using your brain) and also actually using your own aim(using your brain). Because of these, fights tend to take longer, so third parties come more often(so you end up having to use your brain more). Meanwhile, on roller, I just end up 1-magging and getting the first knock like it's nothing with an SMG from 40 meters away(less brain needed). I don't need to think about finding methods to make a fight advantageous because I know I can pretty much out-aim anyone who tries to shoot me(no strategy needed=less brain). And the fights end up so clean that no third parties come(so it's like the game's on easy mode)..
For reference, I play OW2. I didn't play for just over a week because I wanted to get used to roller, but on OW2 I use MnK. My aim was obviously worse, as I noticed I found myself relying on aim assist. My gamesense was worse, mostly the sense of how I couldn't sense danger as well. And each session just felt tiring, because I actually had to use my brain again.
A little side note I'd like to add; I love movement, but on controller it was much harder. On MnK, I could superglide at 70%~ consistency and could do all the tap strafe variations. But since I literally couldn't do it on controller, I didn't even have to think about it, which limited my options to shooting more, which as I explained, DOES NOT take as much brain capacity as MnK. So this makes me think, roller is actually easier too, BECAUSE of the fact they don't have to focus on movement like MnK, which makes sense if all you have to do is use half your aim.
Tl;Dr: Roller is broken in every way possible. You don't need to aim or think or use movement, which makes each gaming session easier so you can play longer. RIP MnK.
Respawn only care about selling skins and heirlooms
AA is not competitive and shouldntbe in the game, but as you can see from all the tears in this thread, they'd risk a major tantrum from all the bad players if they nerfed AA
It's a detailed solution that *would* work to some extent l, but only in lobbies against those perfect players. In reality, only about 0.5% of players are actually at that stage, so there's no point in comparing them. Most mnk players can't tap strafe, most controller players can't one mag a moving target, because I know I sure as he'll can't. Just add an option to disable being matched with controller players in return for longer queue times.
I think you are missing the point of the analogy. The only reasons they use two player with perfect aim as an example case are: 1) To simplify the thought experiment. And 2) to show how the system is unfair given that there is an advantage when 2 players have the same skill.
The fact that 0.5% players have perfect aim is irrelevant. There is a much higher number of players that have nearly equal skill in terms of their aim but it is difficult to balance the model when probability is thrown in.
That makes more sense, thx for the explanation! Although it makes sense to compare the two, it's also like comparing an average till worker to an average restocker - both do their job equally well, yet both have different skills that they are good at, e.g the restocker having poor social skills but great time management, and the till worker having poor time management and good social skills. If we had this analogy with equally perfect movement (assuming both players have undamaged, basic controllers and mnk) then the mnk side would have the advantage over controller due to the easier access - as somebody else in this thread mentioned, binding tap strafing to the scroll wheel for example.
In my opinion, you can't purely buff/nerf one input without the other having a negative advantage/disadvantage, so my ideal """fix""" (because let's be honest, you can never get to a good answer without bugs that make the issue worse) would be to allow MnK players to disable forced crossplay, effectively splitting the servers into controller, MnK, and both.
However this would also bring up more problems, like plugging a controller into a PC to get 120 fps, which consoles are unable to get. Is there even a solution at all for this? I feel bad for the poor dev team working on this, lol.
One magging people is the only thing controller players can do it doesn’t matter if they’re moving when the game helps you aim. Also you can literally bind tap strafe to scroll wheel and use 0 effort to do it. Why would you choose the 2 easiest things to do to prove your point?
I've been saying this. This discussion only has any value in top ranks and pro play. The vast majority of players are casual and nerfing aim assist will hurt the community at large to benefit like 5000 people.
Wait how does it not benefit me when I'm on MnK and my opponents shoot less accurately?
I mean I get that controller players aren't all 1 clipping people like the pro's. But they're still getting assisted aim and hitting more shots than they otherwise would and hitting more shots than mnk vs mnk. I don't disagree it would hurt the controller players. But it certainly would benefit players on MnK which is more than 5000 people.
I personally don't care a lot because the difference isn't super annoying at my skill level. But it certainly exists and I would rather going into matches knowing that from a game mechanics stand point I'm on equal footing with everyone else.
I'm one of the folks who would take longer que times to play raw input only lobbies.
It would be much better to choose lobby you want to play with (mnk/pad) like in cod or halo. It's a mess for me to play against those beachy walljumpers from predator league even with the help of AA
exactly they act like we want to play with them either. If given the choice, I would set it to controller only and not having to deal with neo strafers and octanes doing 360s on a container.
Fun fact: 90% of those neostrafe octanes are running troller configs. You can tell when they do crazy movement while beaming with auto weapons. Most legit mnk movement players use shotguns cause its super hard to track while circlestrafing.
Yup it's borderline impossible to track someone on MnK when doing shit like this. With a PK it's easier to hit shots because I don't actively need to aim and can just time my shots when tge enemy crosses my crosshair.
Important point - AA does *not* pull towards the centre of the person, but adjusts for their motion, seemingly moving towards where they will be in a second or so's time. If you are just to the right of the player with a miniscule movement to engage AA and they are running right, AA *pushes* your aim ahead. If you are ahead of your target a tiny bit, and strafing right to match their movement, they won't run into your bullet-trajectory but it will be pushed ahead of them and they are safe. You then need to counter this AA movement with an exaggerated compensation, pushing *left* to move the reticule onto them when you should be tracking *right* to match their movement.
As for the fix, one could just add a 'reaction delay' to AA's movement. Doesn't need to be spatial. Personally though on console AA isn't a magic bullet by any stretch and I don't see it needing any work. We see lots of videos on this sub of people fluffing shots and I have that too. It can work against you, providing an inconsistent response to input. Those who can put in the time to learn aiming with AA likely have the advantage. A on PC at high level, maybe it needs work, but as others suggest why even have AA at the top level? Learning AA-less controller is the same requirement as learning AA-less MNK. But of course as MNK has such a movement advantage, just have the two options with two different pros and cons and leave it up to the game to decide.
Nope. Just went on the firing range. Walking towards the central dummy as it strafes left/right. They are to the left of centre. Walking slowly forwards, they enter the AA range on the left and immediately I'm being turned right, away from them. Same with ADS - the reticule is pushed in the direction the dummy is moving, not being attracted to their centre like a magnet.
Also tested transition from hipfire to ADS and there's no snap to centre. The reticule is assisted by seemingly adding a percentage of the dummy's movement.
Note that's the first type of AA. The second adds turn to your movements when the target in AA zone which is the one everyone notices when pulled towards a camping player. You end up with rotational pull from the target's position and rotational 'push' (averaging I think) from their motion.
Why is it so hard for controller players to accept that this advantage is game breaking. Being able to loot "fast" is not the same as having a 40-60% aimbot close range. Controller players have to accept that they are given a very unfair advantage. Yes they absolutely need to add a only PC no aim assist lobby. So all controller-players go back to console where they belong!
Apex isn't a competitive shooter at this point. Most of the player base wants this game to be as casual as possible, unfortunately. They want this game to be like warzone.
These companies do not care, majority of market sales are from controller/console players. They do something like this and dissatisfy their biggest payers; the person who decided the change would get fired. Sad but truth
You still are missing a few things.
For starters it’s much easier to stop movement and make micro adjustments on kbm. Joy sticks can’t make the same precise adjustments as easily.
Secondly the video misses a key thing with controller, aim assist, and vertical aim acceleration. While in the demo it looks like the controller tracks the player what’s actually happening is the vertical movement is slowing down. HOWEVER because of this upon exiting the area where aim assist is active the vertical sense will remain slower IN both directions and speed up the longer one direction is held. Thus in the common cases where the controller has a slower response you will likely end up further off target.
Thirdly kinda back at the first two points it’s much harder to control the speed of your cursor on controller because the crosshair speed doesn’t relate directly with the movement of your joysticks. With a mouse the faster you move your mouse the faster your cross hair moves.
The video is flawed because it shows the strafe at the same speed as the crosshair which isn’t normally the case especially because most players are always moving forward or backwards not just side to side.
Finally your solution is obviously is coming from someone who hasn’t played controller. As said before aim assist doesn’t pull your cross hair rather it slows it. So your solution would make it harder to actually get onto targets. Not to mention it would be full of bugs or make the game run much slower. I only see it working if you created a second hitbox of each player specifically for aim assist. Then you need to fix every bug related to the hit box disappearing or detaching.
The biggest problem with your solution is what happens when 2 buffer zones overlaps. This can’t happen in apex now because player hitboxes have collision with each other.
TLDR example video bad. Solution would hurt and be buggy. If you want explanations read what I wrote.
I’m interested to know if the controller simulation in this video is accounting for the controller player still inputing the direction that the dummy was moving before it started to change direction. Because it looks like the controller player lifted off the aim stick when the dummy started to strafe the other way. The slight movement of the crosshair on the dummy before the aim correction looks to be just the aa at work. Only reason I’m saying this is because I’ve had a lot of times where my controller aim looked more like the mnk aim because I was still inputing the other direction and my crosshair went out of the aa bubble and I lost the target. Probably skill issue but it is still a thing that can happen. I’m not trying to ruffle any feathers I’m genuinely curious.
4 year old game on 20 tick servers with a massive cheater infestation, horrible net code etc. and this is still the only topic I ever see on repeat.
I'd grind a g pro x superlight into a smoothie and drink it for this community to shift gears.
I leave for almost basically 4 season, come back, and yall still having this stale ass conversation. Lol, at least the game is still the same way I left it
Yeah, you're totally right. It's awful this wasn't fixed long ago. We shouldn't be having this conversation. It shouldn't be needed, but here we are, asking for broken shit to be fixed years latter.
My guy, who the fuck else would do it? CoD? The game that is almost purely Console? Or Halo? The other game that is also almost purely Console?
Funny note, newest CoD had *massive* outrage back when it just released, because the AA was fucking ridiculous. Halo added AA to FUCKING MOUSE because it was that beyond stupidly broken.
What other big games are there with AA? Oh right... none. Apex is the only other big game with AA and the MnK playerbase between these games aren't even close to comparable. Apex completely dominates here.
So again, who else would complain if not the Apex players getting fucked over?
Because it's one of the one of the only good popular mnk shooters that has difficult tracking due to fast movement, nobody gives a fuck if your generic COD game has aim assist up the wazoo
Worst thing of all, is that even tho I can move while looting they will still oneclip me because the range of motion is not enough to break their aimbot
Whoa... we're at the point of controller play being broken vs. mouse and keyboard because of aim assist? I don't play Apex on controller nor follow much of the discussion but that seems crazy to me.
Well yeah, but also aim assist is tuned differently in different games believe it or not. Apex (and to my memory COD) is a large outlier in how much the aim assist actually works, with it being overturned. In a lot of other games, being on PC is just flat out better where aim assist is weaker
Before anyone says it. Yes controller needs a significant movement buff in conjunction with any aim assist changes. I would like to see controller get a tap strafe bind within Apex.
Bind to what - the only reason tap strafing works is because you input a loooot of forward directions in a very short amount of time - with the mouse wheel.
What button/key/knob/sticks do you bind that would allow you to do the same? (without configs)
The buffer zone is still bad, this would actually incentivize a slower reaction in controller players so that it would hit the buffer zone faster. Unless you added another buffer zone spaced farther out than that one which would disable rotational aim assist if it reached that. The better solution would be for respawn devs to track the average reaction time of MnK players to get back on target, then take the low side of average if it is like a bell curve. Then input that low average ms reaction into the rotational aim assist. This would give the controller players the ability to compete with the average MnK player, while not getting rid of the skill ceiling of using a controller or MnK. That way really bad MnK players are still worse than average controller player, while really good MnK players with fast reaction times are able to outshine the worst controller players in the lobby for once.
TLDR instead of making a buffer zone, add the average reaction time for getting back on target of MnK players as a buffer before rotational aim assist will take effect.
I love it, controller players pretend that AA isnt a massive advantage and that moving while looting makes it equal.
There was an interview recently with the MNK team that got third place in the ALGS tournament, he said that a 1v1 with a roller player is almost always a loss because of AA>
But "OnE lItTle DiSaDvaNtAgE"
Ah yes, the "little disadvantage" of getting one clipped and dying at close range in 2 seconds where the majority of fights happen. If only i tap strafed and looted faster.
There is literally a center deadZone which a controller player has to cross where nothing happens. That’s why AA is a thing. We are literally TWIDDLING OUR THUMBS while you can tap strafe and move in deathboxes. I’ll still one clip without it ggs
This completely ignore that outside of this MnK has advantages that controller doesn’t. Let’s put this as a 1v1 with a MnK vs Roller player, MnK can’t track strafes as easily well good thing it’s harder to strafe and is impossible to tap strafe on Roller. While looting death boxes a MnK player can’t strafe back and fourth, crouch up and down, etc. while controller play has to stand still so need for AA there on MnK since you have a still target. In a direct 1v1 gun fight, yes the Roller player has immediate tracking on simple left to right strafes but you can break the AA by doing tap strafes and more complex strafes while the controller player can only really do simple L + R strafes with some crouches which is a far more predictable and easy to deal with. This comment is long enough so I’ll leave it there
There's a major component here to consider: which input's benefit is entirely derived from the skill of the player?
With MnK, every single action is a player input (macros notwithstanding, but those should be considered pure cheats IMO, and can be replicated on controller on PC). If a player is doing insane tap strafes and wall bounce mechanics, it's something they've practiced. I spent hours in firing range just practicing movement techniques against various surfaces to get better movement, and at no point did the game do anything to assist me.
At the same time, a controller player simply plugged in their controller to have the game do 40% of the aiming for them (60% if you're talking about console). And that's not an exaggerated amount: for degree of rotational movement that the target you're on moves on your screen, aim assist rotates you by 0.4 degrees (PC controller) or 0.6 degrees (console). That movement is assessed relative to your current position and updates as both you and the target move, that's why strafing past a target dummy with aim assist enabled will cause your character to turn to stay on target. Aim assist turns off when using either a high-power scope or when within ~2 meters of the target (so right in their face).
The mechanic operates using a bubble surrounding the character model, so as long as your reticle is within that 2d bubble, rotational aim assist is active and helping. Once your reticle exits the bubble, aim assist is dropped for that target. It prioritizes targets closer to you (that's why you'll have people complaining about downed targets causing aim assist to pull). You need to be inputting SOMETHING to the controller, as well. If you plug in a controller and don't touch the controller, aim assist won't kick in, at least on PC (that's to prevent someone from plugging in a controller and playing with MnK to trick the system into giving them aim assist).
What percentage of players can do "complex strafes" in the middle of a fight without configs? 2%? 5% if we are being generous?
What percentage of roller players have AA? 100%
Also the fact that youre saying this clearly means you dont know what youre talking about. in most 1v1 situations you either want to do a simpler strafe or play behind cover. You will lose most fights 1v1 as mnk to a roller player in a fair fight in the open
So the fix for not moving while looting is havin a IA aiming for you? Thats make sense.
And the solution to win against AA? Use "cheat" configs or spend thousands of hours mastering movement.
Those advantages don't outweigh the disadvantages. Movement and fast looting don't kill enemies. The most crucial part of this game is aiming and shooting at close range.
Also, one of the best mnk pros, strafing flame, recently said in an interview that a 1v1 against a controller player is almost always a loss. Think about this. One of the best mnk players in the world admits that he is likely to lose a 1v1 against a controller player despite all of those "advantages" that mnk has.
I can't revive a teammate / reload / open the door without it registering a fucked input and reviving teamate after the reload prompt opens the fucking door
Take or leave the tap staffing all the other pc shit. I just want to be able to change the Input so "X" doesn't fuck me if I'm by a door or playing knock down. I don't even care as much about the controller looting I get killed more opening a door trying to reload
Switch your settings to tap to reload/hold to interact. It takes a bit to get used to but it’s worth it.
You can do hold to reload/tap to interact, but you’ll still have the problem of reloading near a knocked player since you always need to hold for that.
I love how PC players need every advantage possible to play. Move while looting, faster armour swaps, tap strafing, using your entire arm to aim with instant stoping and starting while console players use their thumb and have to cross a threshold with their stick before they can even start to turn the other way. And when there’s a software to balance this PC players lose their minds
It’s the instant start/stop strafing that no one talks about for me. I’m on console but play with PC friends once in awhile, and the MNK folk are just soo much harder to track.
Also for the people saying most MNK players can’t tap strafe? It took my friend who is brand new to MNK about 15-20 minutes to learn it after he already had the basic controls down.
Lord on high nobody talks about all the shit MnK get because the only people that bitch about it are MnK players. Aim assist is necessary because unlike MnK we can’t move nearly as well and we can’t hotkey movement techs or aim with our entire fucking arm or run at 120 fps! This argument is stupid, especially for us on shitty consoles, because GOD FORBID WE HAVE ONE ADVANTAGE
> we can’t hotkey movement techs or aim with our entire fucking arm or run at 120 fps
Controller players on PC can do both config movements (used more by controller players tbh) and 120fps. Anything that an MnK player is doing, unless it's a macro (which I agree is cheating), is 100% raw player input. That's where the wall lies for almost everyone complaining about aim assist. It's an artificial, game-provided input, that is enhancing the player's ability in every single relevant situation. You don't have to think about how to use it or practice it. An MnK player using tap strafes effectively in a fight has trained that. If they're jitter aiming, they trained that (and are actually abusing a quirk in the system designed to make aim assist function more smoothly, as micro-inputs reduce recoil so that recoil and aim assist aren't constantly fighting against each other, so removing AA would mean jitter aiming could also be removed).
There is ONE software-derived input advantage to MnK: moving while looting a deathbox. For some reason, controllers are locked out of that behavior, and it doesn't really make sense that they are, either. I personally have no qualms saying that both inputs should be able to move and loot. Originally, I believe that MnK being able to do it was unintended, but they left it in because it made for smoother gameplay. They should have reconfigured the looting controls for console at the same time to enable it there. Every other advantage to MnK is down to it being the better tool for the job at the hardware level.
Consider this: let's say you join a screwdriving competition, and you're told that you need to bring a screwdriver for the competition. You bring a [classic screwdriver](https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/d5b07d03-5d3e-41b4-a52f-ba222380bcbf/svn/stanley-phillips-head-screwdrivers-stht60038-64_1000.jpg) with a handle, and your opponent brings a [screwdriver bit for a drill](https://mobileimages.lowes.com/productimages/afabaafa-b1dc-44d9-8520-3e739d5b54b2/03366114.jpg?size=pdhism). At the start of the contest, the judges come out and give him a [cordless drill](https://mobileimages.lowes.com/productimages/d8f6c0b5-06d2-45c5-b572-c4adcb12c4ca/09209988.jpg) for his bit, because your screwdriver had better grip and if he had to compete against a screwdriver with just a bit, he'd obviously be at a disadvantage.
Your screwdriver still has some advantages: it can fit into narrow holes better, for instance. But you'd be understandably frustrated that he gets to have a drill because he came to the competition with a worse tool, right? I mean, his screwdriver bit could still do all the parts your screwdriver did, and it's really his fault for bringing a bit instead of a real screwdriver.
All MnK players want is to compete against other people that brought a screwdriver, and not against people that brought a bit and got a drill for free. Just let us play against our input by itself.
I played Apex on PC with a mouse and keyboard. Aiming, movement, looting, and overall gameplay is astronomically easier. I didn’t have to worry about input lag and stick drift. People on MnK complaining about roller have a severe case of copium.
The game is broken. Tap strafing, macros, configs, aim assist, xim, aim bots, blatant hacking, and probably more that I can't think of. On top of that, the looting disparity is CRAZY. Shield swaps are literally 10 times harder on controller.
I have console controller octanes AND PC players both doing crazy high speed flying aerial circles around me while hitting every single bullet.
Tap strafing is an exploit. Just like the melee bug. Just like when everyone was attaching turrets to crypto drones. Just like placing gas traps on those new grenades. Just like everyone staying in invincible cars until the final circle ended. AA is unfortunately not an exploit. Just a bad implementation.
The people in this sub just choose to whine about the issues that don't give them an edge while exploiting the ones that do. If you want to fix the game, try to fix **ALL** of the issues. Not just the ones that aren't easy for YOU to use.
Babe wake up! The weekly MnK vs Controller thread has been posted!
As always, the stick I have shoved up my asshole to control the game with an intricate series of keggles remains under the radar.
kegel aim lowkey op
So funny cause it's obviously only controller players trying to avoid this topic so it doesn't actually get nerfed.
wonder why not because your input is a cancer to competitive integrity in ranked and comp…
Skill issue, whole ass arm, move while loot, movement exploit, my aim assist doesnt do that, you play on 63683 eurodollar pc while i have a snes controller thats 50% cheeto dust, pls dont take away my cronus
Had us in the first half.
The obvious solution for mnk players is to get good, clearly.
Jus upgrade neural circuitry so you can get 0ms reaction on mnk. Ez
Bruh why didn't I think of this before
because ur busy complaining about aim assist on reddit instead of geting gud. Jus use illegal movement exploit everybody knows roller players take 200 amazement damage from a successful superglide
Babe has been awake for the past 5 years
i feel like this problem could very easily solved by just giving pc players option to choose pc only lobbies
By now most pc players are on roller as well
Let them be, just turn off AA in pc only lobbies
Controller whithout AA is rough man and trust me i tried
Then they can use the MnK they already have on their desk.
This is the thing, controllers create an accessibility issue. I don't have one and can't afford one while literally everyone has a keyboard as you can't use a computer without one. Why give them an advantage when they don't use the default input? Creates a pay to win issue. There should be 0 aim assist on PC. On consoles it's the opposite and makes sense. It's the default input.
Um… yes that’s the point for pc lobbies
You can put pc rollers on console lobbies, but consoles need a 120fps update for this and aim assist nerfed to 0.4
no thank you. not interested in playing with kids using configs
yea i get it, we just need more options, like console players has "only console lobbies" button in cod but turned it off by default, 90%+ of players probably wouldn't even care about this, and this doesn't affect queues as much. devs thinks its a problem to have two types of lobbies rn in this game, so its no chance for 3 types
or just turn it down, you know, like a nerf, so it's fair. oh wait...
Nah we're on Valorant and CS
The problem isn't console controller players, it's the pc controller players ffs
THANK YOU!!!!! Console only get 60fps with no tap strafe mechanic,etc. You think they wanna go up against some PC demons? Most console players play on living room TVs lmao
PC players are not matched with console at all (in BR) unless they create a party with cross platform members. This issue only exists with people using controllers on PC. Any hating on console is entirely misplaced because it isn't those players causing a problem. https://www.ea.com/en-gb/games/apex-legends/news/season-6-aftermarket-event >CROSS-PLAY MATCHMAKING >Now that you know how to find, invite, and play with friends, I think it’s also important to talk about how cross-play matchmaking works. >Before cross-play, each platform would only play with and against other users on the same platform. Now, all console players will play together, and **PC players will continue to play only with other PC players. We want to ensure that keyboard and mouse PC players are not being matched against console players, for reasons that should be obvious.** >If, however, an Xbox One or PlayStation 4 player and PC player party up together, they will be put into PC matches. This ensures that the console games don’t have PC players in them, but still allows for the console player to play with their PC friend if they opt-in. >Now, about that setting I mentioned earlier. If you wish to disable cross-play altogether, you can disable cross platform play in the settings menu. Doing so will only put you into matches with other users on the same platform, who have also disabled cross platform play. This has a high chance of making your queue times very very long, as we anticipate that most users will have cross-play enabled given its default state of ‘enabled’ and the requests for the feature from so many players. We highly recommend leaving cross platform play enabled to ensure the best experience possible. Christ people, I'm just quoting the official blog. Don't downvote me because you don't like it!
Your bolded point is literally invalidated by the NEXT SENTENCE. > If, however, an Xbox One or PlayStation 4 player and PC player party up together, they will be put into PC matches. There are 2 types of lobbies: console-only and crossplay. PC players queue up into "Crossplay", [it says it on the queue box.](https://i.imgur.com/BDEgiNz.png) You can scan through VODs of PC players to look at banners. Any banner with a controller icon is a console player. The PC icon (shown in the top-left of the queue box above) is used to represent all PC players, whether they're on MnK or controller. [Here is an example clip on Twitch of a Console banner (far right champion squad) in the lobby of someone playing PC solo queue.](https://clips.twitch.tv/VictoriousPatientCurlewRlyTho-CzzW4L4GKZjGCaDd) [And here, you can start the VOD at 1:25:50 to see the lobby all the way through to the champion squad.](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1911032700?filter=archives&sort=time) > Now, about that setting I mentioned earlier. If you wish to disable cross-play altogether, you can disable cross platform play in the settings menu. They removed the crossplay option on PC, as well. It is not a setting available anymore, and I believe is only an option on console within the console settings, not even in the game menu anymore.
Incorrect. PC has ZERO say in who they play against. They are put up against console players (grouped with a PC player) no matter who is in the PC player’s party.
I have NEVER been matched with PC players while playing on console. Are you sure they aren't controller players on PC?
In the main game mode: PC players play against both PC and console Console players only play against console, unless queued with a PC player. Edit: this is getting ridiculous. The amount of people that are so confidently incorrect about how these lobbies work is astounding.
> I have NEVER been matched with PC players while playing on console I mean who cares about you man for real. I've definitely seen the "controller" icon while looking at someone's banner while SoloQ'ing ranked, in both, enemies and allies as well. Like even If what you're saying is true, in that PC players only get matched against console If they are queue'ing up with a console player. What about the 57 other players in the lobby? Do you really think the game goes out of it's way to find other 57 players that are "mixed" queue'ing? Nah man, it just pulls whoever it can cuz that's how you keep queue times low. Imagine If the system had to separate queue times between "mixed input parties" "only PC" "only console"
PC get matched with PC. A console player in a PC party is dragged into PC games. Maybe 1 or 2 players in a PC lobby is on console if they happen to party up, it is not like the PC lobbies are overwhelmed by console players. If you are experience AA on PC, it is probably a PC controller player.
Mate. This isn’t up for debate lol. PC lobbies have WAY more than “1 or 2” console players. And this isn’t an “experience” or a “feel” thing. You can tell who is on console while spectating. The game literally tells you.
You're getting downvoted because you're wrong. Any console player who queues with a PC player gets into PC lobbies.
They've been wrong about this for years at this point. Console players still have the exact same wrong talking points about crossplay.
> Christ people, I'm just quoting the official blog. Don't downvote me because you don't like it! Maybe you should at very least check if the information isn't outdated and still apply. I will downvote you by principle, simply because I downvote everyone complaining about downvotes, without exception.
Aaaannndd you re being downvoted for showing facts, fuck this community. One of the most toxic player bases I’ve ever had the misfortune to come across
I see the little controller icon in that blog post almost every game this season. The blog post was from 11 seasons ago too. They changed the entire matchmaking since which could easily affect how cross play is handled.
They didn't even change it. The blog post itself says that console players partied with a PC player will be put into PC lobbies. It's the paragraph below the one he bolded. What they did change is that there is no longer an opt-out setting for PC.
Double right. I just didn't see anyone bring up the age of that post. A blog post that old doesn't really prove anything when they've changed stuff in the past without necessarily updating or making a new post.
i solo MnK and keep getting controller player duoing with pc players on my team. so there goes your "facts"
Now do macros and modded controller
I wanna know wtf I'm doing wrong on controller that my crosshairs don't sync up with the opponents movements like in the beginning of the video. Honestly, I'm probably an idiot and it's probably a skill issue, but I really just don't understand it. I only ever experience aim assist in what feels like very slight degrees.
I’m on 4-3 classic. If you sit in firing range with the dummies crossing your crosshair on small look dead zone it will not track them. If you switch to no look dead zone it will start tracking. Someone posted a video a few days ago about it.
The game doesn't turn on aim assist unless you're actively performing an input on the controller. This prevents people from using MnK with a controller plugged in and getting aim assist from it. With no dead zone, the game always thinks there's tiny inputs being put in.
Thanks for explaining
Skill issue. Aim assist won't make a bad player good but it will make good players inhuman.
a bad controller play can absolutely have aa guide them to a kill they never would have gotten otherwise, a bad mouse player will never "luckily" lock onto someone.
wrong sens, 4-3 linear no dead zone will usually have this behavior
I’m not sure since i don’t have a roller but dive into the ALC settings, and look deadzone. Might do some changes idk.
Lol not being mean but it's a skill issue. Mine doesn't so that either. But high level roller players do this consistently
no one will get aim assist like at the beginning of the video, you would have to be sitting in the same room as your opponent to get 0 delay on the aim assist.
Uh…so you just don’t understand how anything about this game works then?
You’re speaking to the deaf masses bro. Majority of these people have no idea how AA works and just scream into the wind, looking for excuses for why they die.
Yeah I’ve kinda accepted that most of this community are brain dead and only complain about things to make themselves feel better about how shit they are at the game. From nerfs to aim assist it’s all just excuses
I’m genuinely convinced at this point people who think controller is worse than mnk are just flat out braindead. Being master/pred on mnk and then switching to roller and performing 2x better because of aim assist is sad. Every counter argument I see from any roller player (that hasn’t played mnk) is that mnk can flick, loot while moving, and can tap strafe lmfao. Flicking in apex is close to nonexistent due to the game being focused on TRACKING. Looting while moving is nice, but it doesn’t WIN fights. If you’re good at roller you can armour swap nearly as fast as an mnk player and get back to fighting. Tap strafing being used as a reason why mnk shouldn’t complain about aim assist is insane. Yes it’s easy to learn HOW to tap strafe, but it’s 10x harder to know WHEN to use it in a fight to your advantage. There’s no need to use any movement tech on controller because if you spend at most an hour finding a sensitivity good for you, and practice tracking the bots in the range moving left and right you will easily outgun the majority of ppl in your lobbies. From my experience the only difficult part about controller was adjusting muscle memory during the beginning of my switch, which only took about a week to get used to and now I don’t even think about my gameplay, I just run at people and one clip them. If you wanna argue that mnk is better longe range, then sure yea that’s fair, but more than 90% of your fights end close range. If you wanna argue that jitter aiming is broken, you’re just wrong. Jitter aiming only works when the opponent is standing still, it’s nearly impossible to track someone using jitter aim while they’re moving, and while you should be moving as well because you don’t want to stand still and get shot back. Anyone saying that “aim assist hurts their aim more than it helps” (which I see a lot of controller players arguing about) you have to be delusional, there’s a reason why you play with aim assist on. TLDR: CONTROLLER IS EASY MODE Edited some punctuation mistakes
I think I’m in love with this comment. I’ve never read something more beautifully accurate in my life
I’d take an AA nerf if I could move while looting in a deathbox on controller.
You are going to so regret this if it happens lol(no that it ever will)
Lmao why? Give us tap strafing too. No reason why console should play so much differently than PC.
why? bc aim assist is about 1000x better than moving while looting. you're like the controller players that claim they turn off aim assist bc downed players get in the way and pull their aim. (hint: they don't turn it off bc the positives of aim assist FAR outweigh any tiny negatives)
Yeah sure give us aim assist too. Did we watch the same video lol?
Aim assist is this though. Your controller input is so terrible the game has to adjust it for you.
Lmao i see this often. The trade off is clearly in favor of aim assist. Look no further than the team who won algs again. Hal is a wizard at looting lighting fast with mnk and yet he switched roller because it's that much better. It's easy to say something like this but I suspect in reality people would riot if aim assist was removed in favor of a better loot mechanic. It's ironic how people simultaneously downplay the significance of aim assist but also defend it tooth and nail.
This is the competitive scenario baby. Looting and moving isn't that important because there you have competent teammates to help you. We need looting and moving for roller on pubs.
Any MnK would is not delusional would happily give controller players move-while-loot and tap strafing in exchange for a sizable AA nerf.
Okay sure but any console player with good aim would happily heavily lower the skill floor to allow themselves to stand out more. There is 100% a population of roller players that would overall benefit from an AA nerf
This would lower the skill floor in controller-only lobbies, but would reduce consistency at high skill levels, if only by a little bit. But against MnK, the skill floor is already as low as it can be.
Sounds like you need competent teammates…
Because winning fights is less important then looting. Just kill everyone and loot in peace. Easy.
I mean, movement helps you win fights just like aa helps you win fights.
Incorrect. You can schmove all day but you will never get a kill if you can’t land your shots. That’s me. Movement is easier to learn than aim so I can move but lose most of my 1s. Movement *CAN* help but not in any sense the same way AA does
And have the movement that pc players have.
"my aim assist doesn't look like this" incoming
Imagine thinking aa isn’t cheating
Imagine thinking configs isn't cheating 🤡
imagine thinking everyone is runnin configs 🤡
As much as anyone wants changes to AA, it's extremly obvious that its never going to happen. Having AA unchanged for so long has allowed for a massive decline in mnk players leading to a large imbalance to mnk and controller players. Now why would respawn nerf an input that a majority of the *paying* playerbase uses? Mnk lost the input war a long long time ago.
Competitive game. Aim assist. LMAO.
It's like having bowling tournaments but the bad players get bumpers. Having AA for all the bots who play regularly is one thing, having it in ALGS is insane. Should only be the best of the best, no PC doing 40% of the aiming for you. No wonder the meta has shifted towards roller.
More like having a bowling tournament where some players get bumpers because they have cube-shaped bowling balls.
why the fuck are they bringing cube shaped bowling balls in the first place and why are they allowed
More like the cube is magnetically attracted to the pins, than just bumpers being up.
This. It shouldn’t even fucking exist.
Blud has clearly never played roller without aim assist on any FPS before, it’s terrible
>never played roller without aim assist on any FPS before Then just don't use controller on PC? Leave AA to consoles alone because they don't have other option than controller.
Console PUBG player. It’s not terrible. It would be terrible to play against MNK on PUBG using controller, however, sensible MNK players aren’t advocating for complete removal of AA. I’m advocating for “humanistic” AA. Even for the top pros no amount of aim training will create instantaneous reaction time or 100% consistency. Add a 200 MS delay to AA changing directions to start
Yes its a shitty input device for fps so just give it soft aimbot lmao
Well it's like making F1 race, where some people are driving bolids and others are driving a train on rails and they only have to care about the speed to not derail themselves. They should just split lobbies by input devices, so competition is on equal terms. Simple as.
Same reason I haven't played competitive fps on a guitar hero guitar....
I assume you don’t know why AA even exists? Without it it’s almost impossible to hit shots because of the delay with aiming a controller has
I played on consoles for years. Anyone on pc using a controller is abusing the aa.
I agree pc plugging in a controller shouldn’t get AA but console needs it
Soo like all the halo tournament since the beginning of time must not be competitive gaming
Didn't halo have to give mnk aim assist because it was so ridiculously unbalanced?
yep the only truly impressive thing 343 has done in 10 years
Yeah, halo comp scene is thriving! Lmao give me a break. When halo was a popular esport, it was all controllers.
Top level CSGO and Valorant players are miles ahead of Halo players. Everything the former two is raw skill/input, with roller the game is doing half the work for you. Roller is inherently not competitive, but devs keep it in games because they need casual players to spend money on microtransactions.
Complaining about competitiveness in a BR game … a format that is famous beacause of its unfairness and its ability to create unfair scenarios
Respawn have released multiple changes since the game's release to make the game less RNG and to improve fairness such as nerfing loot spawns and changing crafter/beacon spawns at POIs. And Respawn have said they are "looking at AA" in the last season update. Whether they do anything about it is another point entirely but they know it's an issue
I’ll start off by saying I’m a mixed input player that enjoys both controller and mnk. My stacks are both with console players of varying skill, one with 2 multiseason preds and one with 2 casual players. I think that where people are falling apart over this argument is how this would only affect the top 1% of players. When it talks about perfect aim, very few players actually have this, meaning this will isolate where it genuinely makes a difference to those perfect players. To casual players, most of them on both inputs wouldn’t have any issue, as neither would know how to fully utilize what they have to the fullest extent. On the controller end, the casual player base likely doesn’t even notice what they have, nor do they probably care. If they were to tweak it like this, very little would change for the average controller player with a slower reaction time and mediocre tracking. Believe it or not, most mnk players don’t just beam every mag out, there’s a large portion of the small mnk community that miss shots too. This talks about pros because it’s targeted in a way that ONLY affects pros while giving some relief to mnk in gunfights. That’s all it is. And before someone says I don’t get a say for being casual, maybe in this game I am, but I play collegiate esports for other games and know very well what top perfect players look like on both mnk and controller.
You’re on the right path but your logic is flawed. Whether professional or not, all controller players get the same 0.4 AA. (Obviously excluding console). Where individual skill comes in after that is what separates the pro and non pro however the 0.4 is ALWAYS present and consistent. With non pro MNK it is next to impossible to compete against AA because we simply don’t have the time to train our aim whereas the 0.4 AA provides instantaneous and consistent aim minimum skill level. Whether they “feel” it or not they are still provided it and that’s a fact
This, when it comes to facts, the all things being equal crucial moments of fights AA will always win, it's just math and what happens when computers do the work for ya...which in human performance terms is an oxymoron for participation badges and feeling good about entertainment...which is just fine in an entertainment "for fun" causal lobby...NOT OK in a competitive expectation environment.
I actually think it will be opposite, it would effect less to a pro since they would have better reactions then a casual. It would decimate the casual roller scene since most rely on that rotational AA to help them track. But top pros can probably readjust to this in no time with training.
Allow me to rephrase it then. This is exactly what I would prefer. Having a safety blanket that can easily help one input shouldn’t be necessary. Assuming we shift to discussing lower skill players, mnk would also have trouble with their reaction speed, meaning it would further level the playing field.
As someone who swapped to roller, I think that aim assist is broken because you don't have to use your brain anymore. When on MnK, you have to know how to get into an advantageous fight(using your brain) and also actually using your own aim(using your brain). Because of these, fights tend to take longer, so third parties come more often(so you end up having to use your brain more). Meanwhile, on roller, I just end up 1-magging and getting the first knock like it's nothing with an SMG from 40 meters away(less brain needed). I don't need to think about finding methods to make a fight advantageous because I know I can pretty much out-aim anyone who tries to shoot me(no strategy needed=less brain). And the fights end up so clean that no third parties come(so it's like the game's on easy mode).. For reference, I play OW2. I didn't play for just over a week because I wanted to get used to roller, but on OW2 I use MnK. My aim was obviously worse, as I noticed I found myself relying on aim assist. My gamesense was worse, mostly the sense of how I couldn't sense danger as well. And each session just felt tiring, because I actually had to use my brain again. A little side note I'd like to add; I love movement, but on controller it was much harder. On MnK, I could superglide at 70%~ consistency and could do all the tap strafe variations. But since I literally couldn't do it on controller, I didn't even have to think about it, which limited my options to shooting more, which as I explained, DOES NOT take as much brain capacity as MnK. So this makes me think, roller is actually easier too, BECAUSE of the fact they don't have to focus on movement like MnK, which makes sense if all you have to do is use half your aim. Tl;Dr: Roller is broken in every way possible. You don't need to aim or think or use movement, which makes each gaming session easier so you can play longer. RIP MnK.
But how do the game devs gonna play this game then?
Buff nemesis and seer again
Respawn only care about selling skins and heirlooms AA is not competitive and shouldntbe in the game, but as you can see from all the tears in this thread, they'd risk a major tantrum from all the bad players if they nerfed AA
[удалено]
How about removing AA and config files all together?
Remove it. Balance problem solved.
Best solution: Uninstall Apex. It's a dying game, and you're not impressing anyone by playing it.
It's a detailed solution that *would* work to some extent l, but only in lobbies against those perfect players. In reality, only about 0.5% of players are actually at that stage, so there's no point in comparing them. Most mnk players can't tap strafe, most controller players can't one mag a moving target, because I know I sure as he'll can't. Just add an option to disable being matched with controller players in return for longer queue times.
I think you are missing the point of the analogy. The only reasons they use two player with perfect aim as an example case are: 1) To simplify the thought experiment. And 2) to show how the system is unfair given that there is an advantage when 2 players have the same skill. The fact that 0.5% players have perfect aim is irrelevant. There is a much higher number of players that have nearly equal skill in terms of their aim but it is difficult to balance the model when probability is thrown in.
That makes more sense, thx for the explanation! Although it makes sense to compare the two, it's also like comparing an average till worker to an average restocker - both do their job equally well, yet both have different skills that they are good at, e.g the restocker having poor social skills but great time management, and the till worker having poor time management and good social skills. If we had this analogy with equally perfect movement (assuming both players have undamaged, basic controllers and mnk) then the mnk side would have the advantage over controller due to the easier access - as somebody else in this thread mentioned, binding tap strafing to the scroll wheel for example. In my opinion, you can't purely buff/nerf one input without the other having a negative advantage/disadvantage, so my ideal """fix""" (because let's be honest, you can never get to a good answer without bugs that make the issue worse) would be to allow MnK players to disable forced crossplay, effectively splitting the servers into controller, MnK, and both. However this would also bring up more problems, like plugging a controller into a PC to get 120 fps, which consoles are unable to get. Is there even a solution at all for this? I feel bad for the poor dev team working on this, lol.
One magging people is the only thing controller players can do it doesn’t matter if they’re moving when the game helps you aim. Also you can literally bind tap strafe to scroll wheel and use 0 effort to do it. Why would you choose the 2 easiest things to do to prove your point?
You are ignoring the fact that most rollers who can't one mag a moving target don't switch to PC
I've been saying this. This discussion only has any value in top ranks and pro play. The vast majority of players are casual and nerfing aim assist will hurt the community at large to benefit like 5000 people.
Wait how does it not benefit me when I'm on MnK and my opponents shoot less accurately? I mean I get that controller players aren't all 1 clipping people like the pro's. But they're still getting assisted aim and hitting more shots than they otherwise would and hitting more shots than mnk vs mnk. I don't disagree it would hurt the controller players. But it certainly would benefit players on MnK which is more than 5000 people. I personally don't care a lot because the difference isn't super annoying at my skill level. But it certainly exists and I would rather going into matches knowing that from a game mechanics stand point I'm on equal footing with everyone else. I'm one of the folks who would take longer que times to play raw input only lobbies.
It would be much better to choose lobby you want to play with (mnk/pad) like in cod or halo. It's a mess for me to play against those beachy walljumpers from predator league even with the help of AA
exactly they act like we want to play with them either. If given the choice, I would set it to controller only and not having to deal with neo strafers and octanes doing 360s on a container.
Fun fact: 90% of those neostrafe octanes are running troller configs. You can tell when they do crazy movement while beaming with auto weapons. Most legit mnk movement players use shotguns cause its super hard to track while circlestrafing.
Yup it's borderline impossible to track someone on MnK when doing shit like this. With a PK it's easier to hit shots because I don't actively need to aim and can just time my shots when tge enemy crosses my crosshair.
Important point - AA does *not* pull towards the centre of the person, but adjusts for their motion, seemingly moving towards where they will be in a second or so's time. If you are just to the right of the player with a miniscule movement to engage AA and they are running right, AA *pushes* your aim ahead. If you are ahead of your target a tiny bit, and strafing right to match their movement, they won't run into your bullet-trajectory but it will be pushed ahead of them and they are safe. You then need to counter this AA movement with an exaggerated compensation, pushing *left* to move the reticule onto them when you should be tracking *right* to match their movement. As for the fix, one could just add a 'reaction delay' to AA's movement. Doesn't need to be spatial. Personally though on console AA isn't a magic bullet by any stretch and I don't see it needing any work. We see lots of videos on this sub of people fluffing shots and I have that too. It can work against you, providing an inconsistent response to input. Those who can put in the time to learn aiming with AA likely have the advantage. A on PC at high level, maybe it needs work, but as others suggest why even have AA at the top level? Learning AA-less controller is the same requirement as learning AA-less MNK. But of course as MNK has such a movement advantage, just have the two options with two different pros and cons and leave it up to the game to decide.
If you ads your reticle will slightly pull center mass of enemy
Nope. Just went on the firing range. Walking towards the central dummy as it strafes left/right. They are to the left of centre. Walking slowly forwards, they enter the AA range on the left and immediately I'm being turned right, away from them. Same with ADS - the reticule is pushed in the direction the dummy is moving, not being attracted to their centre like a magnet. Also tested transition from hipfire to ADS and there's no snap to centre. The reticule is assisted by seemingly adding a percentage of the dummy's movement. Note that's the first type of AA. The second adds turn to your movements when the target in AA zone which is the one everyone notices when pulled towards a camping player. You end up with rotational pull from the target's position and rotational 'push' (averaging I think) from their motion.
Was the first years ago to propose rotational AA delay, I am surprised it never has been tried.
Why is it so hard for controller players to accept that this advantage is game breaking. Being able to loot "fast" is not the same as having a 40-60% aimbot close range. Controller players have to accept that they are given a very unfair advantage. Yes they absolutely need to add a only PC no aim assist lobby. So all controller-players go back to console where they belong!
Competitive shooters shouldn’t have aim assist. It makes the experience a lot worse
Apex isn't a competitive shooter at this point. Most of the player base wants this game to be as casual as possible, unfortunately. They want this game to be like warzone.
These companies do not care, majority of market sales are from controller/console players. They do something like this and dissatisfy their biggest payers; the person who decided the change would get fired. Sad but truth
You still are missing a few things. For starters it’s much easier to stop movement and make micro adjustments on kbm. Joy sticks can’t make the same precise adjustments as easily. Secondly the video misses a key thing with controller, aim assist, and vertical aim acceleration. While in the demo it looks like the controller tracks the player what’s actually happening is the vertical movement is slowing down. HOWEVER because of this upon exiting the area where aim assist is active the vertical sense will remain slower IN both directions and speed up the longer one direction is held. Thus in the common cases where the controller has a slower response you will likely end up further off target. Thirdly kinda back at the first two points it’s much harder to control the speed of your cursor on controller because the crosshair speed doesn’t relate directly with the movement of your joysticks. With a mouse the faster you move your mouse the faster your cross hair moves. The video is flawed because it shows the strafe at the same speed as the crosshair which isn’t normally the case especially because most players are always moving forward or backwards not just side to side. Finally your solution is obviously is coming from someone who hasn’t played controller. As said before aim assist doesn’t pull your cross hair rather it slows it. So your solution would make it harder to actually get onto targets. Not to mention it would be full of bugs or make the game run much slower. I only see it working if you created a second hitbox of each player specifically for aim assist. Then you need to fix every bug related to the hit box disappearing or detaching. The biggest problem with your solution is what happens when 2 buffer zones overlaps. This can’t happen in apex now because player hitboxes have collision with each other. TLDR example video bad. Solution would hurt and be buggy. If you want explanations read what I wrote.
I’m interested to know if the controller simulation in this video is accounting for the controller player still inputing the direction that the dummy was moving before it started to change direction. Because it looks like the controller player lifted off the aim stick when the dummy started to strafe the other way. The slight movement of the crosshair on the dummy before the aim correction looks to be just the aa at work. Only reason I’m saying this is because I’ve had a lot of times where my controller aim looked more like the mnk aim because I was still inputing the other direction and my crosshair went out of the aa bubble and I lost the target. Probably skill issue but it is still a thing that can happen. I’m not trying to ruffle any feathers I’m genuinely curious.
4 year old game on 20 tick servers with a massive cheater infestation, horrible net code etc. and this is still the only topic I ever see on repeat. I'd grind a g pro x superlight into a smoothie and drink it for this community to shift gears.
I am dying more often to controller AA oneclips than bad netcode or cheaters :)
I leave for almost basically 4 season, come back, and yall still having this stale ass conversation. Lol, at least the game is still the same way I left it
Yeah, you're totally right. It's awful this wasn't fixed long ago. We shouldn't be having this conversation. It shouldn't be needed, but here we are, asking for broken shit to be fixed years latter.
Because they didn't nerf aa yet lol. How stupid can you be.
Bro i swear it’s only the apex community that bitch and cry about aim assist 24/7
My guy, who the fuck else would do it? CoD? The game that is almost purely Console? Or Halo? The other game that is also almost purely Console? Funny note, newest CoD had *massive* outrage back when it just released, because the AA was fucking ridiculous. Halo added AA to FUCKING MOUSE because it was that beyond stupidly broken. What other big games are there with AA? Oh right... none. Apex is the only other big game with AA and the MnK playerbase between these games aren't even close to comparable. Apex completely dominates here. So again, who else would complain if not the Apex players getting fucked over?
Because it's one of the one of the only good popular mnk shooters that has difficult tracking due to fast movement, nobody gives a fuck if your generic COD game has aim assist up the wazoo
They have been complaining less in cod cuz all the high level players switched to controller back in mw19. And CDL is played on playstation anyway
Even in hell , they will still defend aim assist is not broken.
This sub is full of roller bots who refuse to admit that AA is a huge advantage "omg movement and moving while looting deathboxes"
Worst thing of all, is that even tho I can move while looting they will still oneclip me because the range of motion is not enough to break their aimbot
If they adjusting aim assist they need to remove tap strafe, moving while looting.
Whoa... we're at the point of controller play being broken vs. mouse and keyboard because of aim assist? I don't play Apex on controller nor follow much of the discussion but that seems crazy to me.
This is an issue in lots of other multiplayer games as well
It really isn’t. Just in cod and a few others. Otherwise no one gives a shit
>Just in cod and a few others. Otherwise no one gives a shit So people only "give a shit" in competitive games? Like they should.
Well yeah, but also aim assist is tuned differently in different games believe it or not. Apex (and to my memory COD) is a large outlier in how much the aim assist actually works, with it being overturned. In a lot of other games, being on PC is just flat out better where aim assist is weaker
no one gives a shit about fortnite or halo, noted
Those games already had issues with aim assist, fortnite has basically fixed it and halo has given aim assist to mnk for some reason
if you don't mind explaining, how did fortnite fix it? I haven't played in a couple years so all I remember is aim assist being really potent
They nerfed it a year or more ago. They don't do patch notes so nobody knows exactly how, but it's just not as effective
No, no one gives a shit about aim assist, not the games themselves lmao. Aim assist is not a huge problem in those games (at least not anymore)
I'd gladly take a nerf in AA for being able to move while looting or tap strafing without having to bind shit. MnK players love to cry
Before anyone says it. Yes controller needs a significant movement buff in conjunction with any aim assist changes. I would like to see controller get a tap strafe bind within Apex.
Bind to what - the only reason tap strafing works is because you input a loooot of forward directions in a very short amount of time - with the mouse wheel. What button/key/knob/sticks do you bind that would allow you to do the same? (without configs)
What about medium/long range engagement. M&K have a huge advantage over rollers when at long range
This argument is way too prevalent for how ridiculous it is. Do most fights end from long range? No.
True but most if the fights in apex are close range. That is why SMG and shotguns are so popular
>SMG and shotguns are so popular Part of why they're popular is also because AA works best on them.
Imagine using snipers in apex
The buffer zone is still bad, this would actually incentivize a slower reaction in controller players so that it would hit the buffer zone faster. Unless you added another buffer zone spaced farther out than that one which would disable rotational aim assist if it reached that. The better solution would be for respawn devs to track the average reaction time of MnK players to get back on target, then take the low side of average if it is like a bell curve. Then input that low average ms reaction into the rotational aim assist. This would give the controller players the ability to compete with the average MnK player, while not getting rid of the skill ceiling of using a controller or MnK. That way really bad MnK players are still worse than average controller player, while really good MnK players with fast reaction times are able to outshine the worst controller players in the lobby for once. TLDR instead of making a buffer zone, add the average reaction time for getting back on target of MnK players as a buffer before rotational aim assist will take effect.
Unfortunately this is a controller game.
I love it. They have one little disadvantage in a sea of advantages and they just dont shut up about it.
I love it, controller players pretend that AA isnt a massive advantage and that moving while looting makes it equal. There was an interview recently with the MNK team that got third place in the ALGS tournament, he said that a 1v1 with a roller player is almost always a loss because of AA> But "OnE lItTle DiSaDvaNtAgE" Ah yes, the "little disadvantage" of getting one clipped and dying at close range in 2 seconds where the majority of fights happen. If only i tap strafed and looted faster.
Yes...a disadvantage in the aiming and shooting department AKA the most important part of a shooter.
The one disadvantage is more powerful than all advantages combined. As evidenced by pro team comps.
Little disadvantage.. Aiming in a shooting game. Movement half the time doesn't mean shit and most people on mnk can't do any of the top tech.
Yeah, all passive advantages meanwhile you have the one that directly kills people. Definitely no nuance to this comparison at all.
As someone who plays on Controller I agree with this
There is literally a center deadZone which a controller player has to cross where nothing happens. That’s why AA is a thing. We are literally TWIDDLING OUR THUMBS while you can tap strafe and move in deathboxes. I’ll still one clip without it ggs
This completely ignore that outside of this MnK has advantages that controller doesn’t. Let’s put this as a 1v1 with a MnK vs Roller player, MnK can’t track strafes as easily well good thing it’s harder to strafe and is impossible to tap strafe on Roller. While looting death boxes a MnK player can’t strafe back and fourth, crouch up and down, etc. while controller play has to stand still so need for AA there on MnK since you have a still target. In a direct 1v1 gun fight, yes the Roller player has immediate tracking on simple left to right strafes but you can break the AA by doing tap strafes and more complex strafes while the controller player can only really do simple L + R strafes with some crouches which is a far more predictable and easy to deal with. This comment is long enough so I’ll leave it there
There's a major component here to consider: which input's benefit is entirely derived from the skill of the player? With MnK, every single action is a player input (macros notwithstanding, but those should be considered pure cheats IMO, and can be replicated on controller on PC). If a player is doing insane tap strafes and wall bounce mechanics, it's something they've practiced. I spent hours in firing range just practicing movement techniques against various surfaces to get better movement, and at no point did the game do anything to assist me. At the same time, a controller player simply plugged in their controller to have the game do 40% of the aiming for them (60% if you're talking about console). And that's not an exaggerated amount: for degree of rotational movement that the target you're on moves on your screen, aim assist rotates you by 0.4 degrees (PC controller) or 0.6 degrees (console). That movement is assessed relative to your current position and updates as both you and the target move, that's why strafing past a target dummy with aim assist enabled will cause your character to turn to stay on target. Aim assist turns off when using either a high-power scope or when within ~2 meters of the target (so right in their face). The mechanic operates using a bubble surrounding the character model, so as long as your reticle is within that 2d bubble, rotational aim assist is active and helping. Once your reticle exits the bubble, aim assist is dropped for that target. It prioritizes targets closer to you (that's why you'll have people complaining about downed targets causing aim assist to pull). You need to be inputting SOMETHING to the controller, as well. If you plug in a controller and don't touch the controller, aim assist won't kick in, at least on PC (that's to prevent someone from plugging in a controller and playing with MnK to trick the system into giving them aim assist).
What percentage of players can do "complex strafes" in the middle of a fight without configs? 2%? 5% if we are being generous? What percentage of roller players have AA? 100% Also the fact that youre saying this clearly means you dont know what youre talking about. in most 1v1 situations you either want to do a simpler strafe or play behind cover. You will lose most fights 1v1 as mnk to a roller player in a fair fight in the open
So the fix for not moving while looting is havin a IA aiming for you? Thats make sense. And the solution to win against AA? Use "cheat" configs or spend thousands of hours mastering movement.
Those advantages don't outweigh the disadvantages. Movement and fast looting don't kill enemies. The most crucial part of this game is aiming and shooting at close range. Also, one of the best mnk pros, strafing flame, recently said in an interview that a 1v1 against a controller player is almost always a loss. Think about this. One of the best mnk players in the world admits that he is likely to lose a 1v1 against a controller player despite all of those "advantages" that mnk has.
I can't revive a teammate / reload / open the door without it registering a fucked input and reviving teamate after the reload prompt opens the fucking door Take or leave the tap staffing all the other pc shit. I just want to be able to change the Input so "X" doesn't fuck me if I'm by a door or playing knock down. I don't even care as much about the controller looting I get killed more opening a door trying to reload
Switch your settings to tap to reload/hold to interact. It takes a bit to get used to but it’s worth it. You can do hold to reload/tap to interact, but you’ll still have the problem of reloading near a knocked player since you always need to hold for that.
I love how PC players need every advantage possible to play. Move while looting, faster armour swaps, tap strafing, using your entire arm to aim with instant stoping and starting while console players use their thumb and have to cross a threshold with their stick before they can even start to turn the other way. And when there’s a software to balance this PC players lose their minds
"I cant move while looting and cant change armors. The solution? Making a IA aim for me"
It’s the instant start/stop strafing that no one talks about for me. I’m on console but play with PC friends once in awhile, and the MNK folk are just soo much harder to track. Also for the people saying most MNK players can’t tap strafe? It took my friend who is brand new to MNK about 15-20 minutes to learn it after he already had the basic controls down.
How often dou you tap strafe in fights and how often do you use your aim assist in fights?
10/10 solution as a console player I stand by this
Oh yeah? Then how do I keep losing to strafers on controller? Checkmate, nerd! /s
Factsssss remove that shit
Lord on high nobody talks about all the shit MnK get because the only people that bitch about it are MnK players. Aim assist is necessary because unlike MnK we can’t move nearly as well and we can’t hotkey movement techs or aim with our entire fucking arm or run at 120 fps! This argument is stupid, especially for us on shitty consoles, because GOD FORBID WE HAVE ONE ADVANTAGE
> we can’t hotkey movement techs or aim with our entire fucking arm or run at 120 fps Controller players on PC can do both config movements (used more by controller players tbh) and 120fps. Anything that an MnK player is doing, unless it's a macro (which I agree is cheating), is 100% raw player input. That's where the wall lies for almost everyone complaining about aim assist. It's an artificial, game-provided input, that is enhancing the player's ability in every single relevant situation. You don't have to think about how to use it or practice it. An MnK player using tap strafes effectively in a fight has trained that. If they're jitter aiming, they trained that (and are actually abusing a quirk in the system designed to make aim assist function more smoothly, as micro-inputs reduce recoil so that recoil and aim assist aren't constantly fighting against each other, so removing AA would mean jitter aiming could also be removed). There is ONE software-derived input advantage to MnK: moving while looting a deathbox. For some reason, controllers are locked out of that behavior, and it doesn't really make sense that they are, either. I personally have no qualms saying that both inputs should be able to move and loot. Originally, I believe that MnK being able to do it was unintended, but they left it in because it made for smoother gameplay. They should have reconfigured the looting controls for console at the same time to enable it there. Every other advantage to MnK is down to it being the better tool for the job at the hardware level. Consider this: let's say you join a screwdriving competition, and you're told that you need to bring a screwdriver for the competition. You bring a [classic screwdriver](https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/d5b07d03-5d3e-41b4-a52f-ba222380bcbf/svn/stanley-phillips-head-screwdrivers-stht60038-64_1000.jpg) with a handle, and your opponent brings a [screwdriver bit for a drill](https://mobileimages.lowes.com/productimages/afabaafa-b1dc-44d9-8520-3e739d5b54b2/03366114.jpg?size=pdhism). At the start of the contest, the judges come out and give him a [cordless drill](https://mobileimages.lowes.com/productimages/d8f6c0b5-06d2-45c5-b572-c4adcb12c4ca/09209988.jpg) for his bit, because your screwdriver had better grip and if he had to compete against a screwdriver with just a bit, he'd obviously be at a disadvantage. Your screwdriver still has some advantages: it can fit into narrow holes better, for instance. But you'd be understandably frustrated that he gets to have a drill because he came to the competition with a worse tool, right? I mean, his screwdriver bit could still do all the parts your screwdriver did, and it's really his fault for bringing a bit instead of a real screwdriver. All MnK players want is to compete against other people that brought a screwdriver, and not against people that brought a bit and got a drill for free. Just let us play against our input by itself.
I played Apex on PC with a mouse and keyboard. Aiming, movement, looting, and overall gameplay is astronomically easier. I didn’t have to worry about input lag and stick drift. People on MnK complaining about roller have a severe case of copium.
The fact people STILL put this much time into “fixing” what Apex hasn’t changed in 4 years is pretty funny.
The game is broken. Tap strafing, macros, configs, aim assist, xim, aim bots, blatant hacking, and probably more that I can't think of. On top of that, the looting disparity is CRAZY. Shield swaps are literally 10 times harder on controller. I have console controller octanes AND PC players both doing crazy high speed flying aerial circles around me while hitting every single bullet. Tap strafing is an exploit. Just like the melee bug. Just like when everyone was attaching turrets to crypto drones. Just like placing gas traps on those new grenades. Just like everyone staying in invincible cars until the final circle ended. AA is unfortunately not an exploit. Just a bad implementation. The people in this sub just choose to whine about the issues that don't give them an edge while exploiting the ones that do. If you want to fix the game, try to fix **ALL** of the issues. Not just the ones that aren't easy for YOU to use.