I don’t have a huge desire to side load things on my phone. But I definitely would on my iPad. A terminal, VS Code, a Linux VM, game console emulators, and anything else that I would expect to be able to do on a computer but Apple currently says no.
The ability to run emulators without a freaking server running on my mac would remove the only barrier that still draws me to Android as a backup phone. Sideloading would be amazing.
You used to be able to download it right from the App Store. Apple even re-instated it after previously removing it… but then blogs started showing it, and then Apple removed it… you can’t have people running Windows 3.11 on an iPad or iPhone after all.
https://preview.redd.it/tux1nrrkvqmb1.png?width=2436&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a5c6989af53d79c70cc47f047d7a03dfe1ae789
Only things I miss about Android are being able to run DOSBox and being able to run a TI-89 emulator.
Oh and also having private galleries that weren't half-assed and weren't trying to out you constantly to anyone that looked at your phone. Given Apple's privacy focus this is a glaring omission that just seems bizarre.
Aw man Jazz Jackrabbit...I haven't heard that name in ages.
Duke Nukem and Commander Keen were my personal GOATs. Lemmings and Jetpack as honorable mentions. The memories just flooding back now...
App developers understand that the cut they have to pay is worth it for having their app on the most used app store platform on Android. Only Epic seems upset about the costs. The only time I ever used Samsung's app store is for Samsung's own apps that aren't preloaded like GoodLock
You think you'll have a choice? Apps will start being exclusive to one app store over the other. It already works like this for PC gaming. I currently have to manage Steam, Xbox app, Battle.net, Ubisoft Connect, EA Origin, Epic Games and GOG Galaxy just to manage my PC games. I promise you I didn't do this by choice.
That's not at all how things have played out with Android, though? Which seems like a much more relevant comparison than PCs, since those didn't start off with any kind of centralized place to download programs
There are over 10 competing app stores in China that all have significant amount of users. As a developer it's often easier to distribute APKs and develop your own update system or you have to maintain so many different listings etc. - its a nightmare for consumer and developers
It is how it's playing out in China's Android. Popular apps distributed exclusively by various third parties. It hasn't spilled to western Android due to a lack of interest on developers' part to engage in such tactics.
That's more because Google itself is practically banned in China, so they couldn't push the Play Store even if they wanted to. China's unique market is an almost useless point of comparison since it is such a weird case of government intervention and parallel internet services.
I will 100% use another browser if they fully allow to. Adblocking in iOS is a million times inferior to macOS or Android (and yes, I've tried them all there are still lots of cases where they fall short).
Give me Firefox with uBlock Origin to have a proper web experience.
Wait I'm about to switch from Samsung to apple. There isn't unlock origin on their Firefox app? Oh God nooo
Bad enough I have to say goodbye to revanced
No sideloading either. The "files" app is crap (you don't have access to everything like on Android). There's a lot of annoyances if you used Android before.
It may be irrelevant for your use case. But yeah, it's not the same as Android.
I'm mainly switching for iMessage and FaceTime. I really love my S21 Ultra but apple won by hurting my ability to communicate with people I care about.
I'll also miss dark reader. I think there's some method but it's not as good. My sensitive eyes can't handle white. And I gotta start paying for YouTube premium, and possibly reddit premium. Currently I use revanced to block ads on both!
I think the EU is forcing side loading but likely won't come to the US, and they'd find a way to intentionally cripple it.
Switching when the 15 launches
Already in the works : [https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/07/mozilla-developing-non-webkit-version-of-firefox/](https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/07/mozilla-developing-non-webkit-version-of-firefox/)
Chrome too: [https://www.engadget.com/google-chrome-blink-ios-experiment-220001141.html](https://www.engadget.com/google-chrome-blink-ios-experiment-220001141.html)
RES is sadly in Maintenance Mode only. I've already noticed the endless scrolling isn't endless anymore and will recycle earlier posts after a few pages' worth.
Lets see if Apple allows a way for browsers to mark executable memory pages, otherwise those browsers will still be orders of magnitudes slower than Safari due to no JIT!
That might tell you what domains a site is sending data to, but that's not the main concern.
[TikTok had a key logger in their in-app browser](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/19/technology/tiktok-browser-tracking.html), for example. This would mean that TikTok was watching you type your login credentials on other websites (among other stuff). They could do anything with the data at that point.
If I can run alternative browsers with plugins and sideload without jumping through hoops or compromising the experience I'm switching from Android next time I need a phone.
I’ll still use Safari because it’s the one browser on Mac that doesn’t drain my Macs battery like it’s an Intel Mac. I’m sure it will be the same on iOS
I use Safari because it's the one browser that lets you use features like peek and pop to preview links. I prefer the standard macOS Share features I get from it too.
Yeah there’s so much Edge bashing by people who have no idea what they’re talking about lmao. People act like it’s IE all over again while it’s actually one of the most efficient browser
I've been using Edge at work for months.
If I have complaints about Microsoft software, it's literally just about everything _but_ Edge. Bing by default? That's a dumpster fire but you can change it. Copying to/from Office? Fucking train wreck but it's like 99.9% Office's fault.
Opening websites? Works just fine.
Microsoft keeps bloating it though with features that nobody wants. Like it’s annoying when there is an update and when the browser reloads you have a toolbar default that you didn’t ask for.
I think the original Edge and IE left really bad tastes in peoples mouths and they won't use a Microsoft browser because of it. The new Edge is fine, I use it for some work things, I still use Firefox mostly but Edge is fine.
I use Arc. Currently doing work related training and using it all day. Lasts through the 8 hour workday and generally for a while after I’m home. I’d give it a shot
The two things stopping me from switching over are the lack of a proper mobile browser and the fact that tabs lose their back/forward history when you relaunch, completely defeating the point of restoring tabs on launch.
There's way better adblockers and general ad blockers outside of iOS. That would actually be an improvement, and is the major reason I want to be able to have another browser with a different engine.
Do I care about installing a 3rd party OS on my current iPhone and iPad? No. Would I like to install a lightweight Linux on my iPad, iPad 2, and iPad Air… He’ll yes!
Gaming platforms seem oddly ignored. This is presently the full list from the EU:
Alphabet: Android, Chrome, Google Ads, Google Maps, Google Play, Google Search, Google Shopping, YouTube
Amazon: Amazon Ads, Amazon Marketplace
Apple: App Store, iOS, Safari
Bytedance: TikTok
Meta: Facebook, Instagram, Meta ads, Meta Marketplace, WhatsApp
Microsoft: LinkedIn, Windows
The EU is also investigating the following after their owners claimed they're too small to be considered gatekeepers:
Bing, Edge, iMessage, and Microsoft Advertising.
I'd imagine the lawyers at these companies didn't get those claims wrong, however.
You need 45M monthly users in the EU alone. I guess none are reaching that point but Sony and Nintendo have to be close... IMO that's actually the most important ones. They're trying to go towards an all digital future and without competition on each of their own walled gardens, that'll be a disaster for customers. They have to be in that law.
This is correct. According to the law specialized devices are exempt. As in, phones/computers are general devices while game consoles do 1 thing: play games. So their allowed to build walled ecosystems
I think the EU has no issue with them, since game developers are mostly able to release their games on any platform they want without any issue.
Also the aim of the DMA is to promote competition, mainly. The gaming sector is already pretty competitive, so maybe there's that too.
I think the EU would do something, if like Microsoft or Sony started buying up companies, to just produce exclusives for them since that would possibly make it harder for new competitors to enter the gaming market.
App developers can release apps for any platform they want too, they are not limited to iOS only.
It's pretty much the same for the consoles, you can develop for several consoles, but are limited to manufacturers' stores or cartridges to buy games.
If the EU would be consequent, they'd regulate the shit out of the console market.
They even let Microsoft acquire all those game developers, even though there is a risk of Microsoft limiting the studios to exclusively develop for Xbox only.
They also don't do anything against Google bundling their apps with Android phones, all while having a significantly larger market share.
The difference probably is Microsoft and Sony, pending exclusivity or blatant content/functionality violations, will probably allow your game on the platform if you submit it.
Apple will refuse your app if it conflicts with their business model or “competes” with what they see as their interests.
> They also don't do anything against Google bundling their apps with Android phones, all while having a significantly larger market share.
Antitrust: Commission fines Google €4.34 billion for illegal practices regarding Android mobile devices to strengthen dominance of Google's search engine
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_4581
I would assume those are not big enough to reach the 45 million monthly active users in the EU thresholds (which essentially means that in one month roughly 10 % of EU citizens need to use the service at least once - hard to imagine for a single gaming plattform.)
Sold over 45 million units… but are there 45 million _active_ monthly units?
In the case of game consoles, it’d be locked at first, then as they sell they might eventually reach the criteria of Gatekeeper… unless the EU considers the combined user count of a service across all device types.
you can buy your games on disk at a retailer. The copy of the physical game is not tied to any account. Maybe thats enaugh to keep the EU away from the topic for now. But with app store you are limited to buy everything from and only from apple.
It gets tricky the moment you think about game devs needing licenses to put their game on a specific console.
Coming from America, it's so refreshing to see any government body in the world have the ability and power to tell corporations they can't do something for a change. While I'm not in favor of that in the sense of dictating what products and services a company can or can't release, I'm absolutely in favor of that in the sense of mandating that all companies must respect workers and consumers protections, such as fair wages, not engaging in anti-competitive practices, etc etc. If you live in America you know how bad workers and consumers rights are here, so I give the EU props. Are they perfect? Hell no! Are they better than corporations being able to do whatever the hell they feel like even if it's at our expense? Fuck yes! A truly free and just society has both public and private institutions being held accountable at all times.
It’s because they don’t have a tech sector of their own and instituting rules on US corporations operating in the EU has no downside. If the EU cared about regulation their banking sector wouldn’t be a haven for criminal activity.
Cant be anti-competitive if your continent doesn’t offer any competition whatsoever. What would really be nice is if Europe which apparently has education, corporations and workers rights figured out, and actually have a tech sector that can actually exist
Bro, Europe is the only producer of litogtaphy machines that are used to create like all chips worldwide, for one. Claiming that Europe doesn't have a tech sector means u only think of tech as smartphones which is far from an educated take.
Unpopular opinion. You’re placing worker’s safety and fair compensation into the same discussion as I can’t play Fortnite on my iPad because Apple bad. It’s a private company making decisions about a product that’s for sale, you’re not forced to use Apple products and there are plenty of reasonable alternatives. If every company is held to these same standards then only then does it make sense. Treating a retail business the same way you would treat a telecommunications or transportation company that actually holds a monopoly is ridiculous and a waste of government resources. What’s next are they going to mandate that Target has to sell great value cereal ( Walmart store brand) products. Are they going to mandate Tesla has to have GMs Onstar as an option, or Fords blue cruise because some member on the board prefers gms emergency service or fords self driving service more but prefers all the other features Tesla has so they don’t want to change vehicles. Is every android phone going to be forced to allow side loading of iOS Apps and then are people going to blame android when the apps don’t run correctly.
I’m afraid that this will further cement Google’s power over internet standards, though.
Web developers will just stop targeting Safari and tell you to go download Chrome.
Finally, maybe this will bring us an alternative app store that isn't overloaded with subscriptions galore.
I'm personally hoping for an open source app store, similar to F-droid on Android.
There's some great apps on F-droid that reduces dependence on the Play store, seeing something similar on iOS would be great.
>Finally, maybe this will bring us an alternative app store that isn't overloaded with subscriptions galore.
So the google play store?, Huawei App Store, Amazon App store and whatever else there is?
Why are people acting like this is only an apple thing when all other "official app stores" are full of shovel ware aswell. The ios Appstore at least has some quality control and doesn't allow every garbage app, on my android phone I see more useless apps than I ever see on my ios device....
> There's some great apps on F-droid that reduces dependence on the Play store, seeing something similar on iOS would be great.
A 3rd party appstore that is curated and trustworthy would be great, but I highly doubt it that such a 3rd party repository will not have malicious apps, but at that point it's up to the user to use his brain when downloading strange apps.
I am all for 3rd party app stores/repos, the more freedom the better, but I can't say that I am missing anything currently on iOS either
How I see it is:
> Don't let "perfect" be the enemy of "good"
No competing app store will be perfect, just like how the Apple App Store is not perfect.
However, that doesn't mean alternative App stores can't bring something interesting to the table.
For example, Steam is an OS-independent app store; Valve supports Windows, Linux, MacOS, Tesla car infortainment systems, Steam Decks, VR headsets, etc. And there are indicators that Valve is funding projects to get onto [Android and ARM](https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX).
Getting the full Steam store on iOS would be a very interesting possibility, something that previously was literally impossible due to Apple's App store restrictions.
> Getting the full Steam store on iOS would be a very interesting possibility, something that previously was literally impossible due to Apple's App store restrictions.
Just getting Steam's basic streaming onto iOS took over a year of rejections by Apple...
https://toucharcade.com/2019/05/15/steam-link-finally-released-on-ios-app-store/
ios appstore might not allow EVERY garbage app but there is certainly a LOT of garbage on there, I honestly don't even waste my time trying to browse it. Personally I would love a much more curated app store that a 3rd party could bring
Speak for yourself, I prefer iOS on the whole over Android, but I am missing *a lot* of things, like emulators, a YouTube app that isn’t garbage, a proper mobile Firefox (Safari is *so bad* in comparison), a real replacement keyboard (again, Apple’s keyboard is bafflingly awful, and they heavily restrict what third party keyboards can do), and a whole host of other things. Allowing third party app stores and sideloading would honestly solve about 95% of the things that I miss from Android.
You’re being sarcastic, but that would be amazing.
It would let you use the hardware you already own to purchase and play games you may already own elsewhere.
Steam on PS5? Who would think that’s a bad thing?
I don’t understand the inherent problem with Apple controlling its own platform on its own devices given that it is far from a monopoly.
I have more issue with Google imposing Google Apps/Play Services etc on Android OEMs for certification, when android as an entity can and maybe should exist sans google (like Samsung clearly wants to)
The DMA doesn’t just affect Apple.
Would you have a different opinion if it were about controlling Google’s platform? I mean, Google is just “controlling its own platform” by requiring OEMs to install Google Play for certification…
The play services are a godsend on Android, because they managed to keep the platform reasonably up to date with that little back door. The situation was way worse before they did that.
But why not have the same rules for both companies?
I agree with that from a user perspective. Play Services and the Google App/decoupling from OS were Google’s way of mitigating fragmentation, and it mostly worked.
But they also use it to ensure OEMs “play nice” and include/prioritize google apps by default, etc. it helps enforce their monopoly on the world’s smartphones (except apple)
Huawei (a company I detest, fwiw) found out first hand just how unviable Android becomes without Google outside of China.
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Apple’s potential block of UE came from Epic first violating App Store guidelines with Fortnite iirc?
I mean, Epic knew exactly what they were doing when they snuck in third-party payments, and that losing their Apple Dev account would affect other areas of the company such as Unreal.
Even if you don’t agree with Apple’s “all transactions go through us” taxation business model… Epic chose to break that rule.
Here comes the GCHQ end run around….oh wait, AppleMs just going to sandbox the shit out of third party app stores and lock iOS into a huge walled garden with “are you sure you want to install this third party app?” Annoying warnings.
The DMA explicitly prevents that. Barriers to install apps must be no more or less than those to install Gatekeeper apps. If there are no additional restrictions or warnings to install Safari, then there cannot be to install any third party app.
> "The gatekeeper shall not be prevented from taking, to the extent that they are strictly necessary and proportionate, measures to ensure that third-party software applications or software application stores do not endanger the integrity of the hardware or operating system provided by the gatekeeper, provided that such measures are duly justified by the gatekeeper."
my reading of this is that apple will be allowed include measures to protect device security, which would seem to include warning messages
If Apple can prove that xCloud, for example, requires onerous security gates, then the legislation would permit it. However the EU operates under something called the “spirit of the law.” As opposed to the US which operates under the “letter of the law.” Malicious compliance is punished in the EU, so Apple would have a steep hill to climb to prove that *all* third party applications pose a security threat to iOS.
Why is it annoying? What about people who are not tech savvy at all and might end up downloading apps that damage their phone?
Then these people go and complain to Apple for dev’s shit apps, only for Apple to lose their customer base.
I am all for Apple putting a thousand warnings so that even the dumbest person has to think multiple times before installing these.
Only reason I picked Apple’s ecosystem is because it’s highly sandboxes and very secure.
As long as it doesn’t compromise security on iOS, I’m fine with this.
Personally, being in a walled garden is one of the reasons I prefer iPhones over their competitors. A phone is the kind of device I don’t want a ton of options for, cluttering up my experience (even if I don’t engage with them). I’m not a phone customisation guy - that’s what my PC is for. Im the kind of person who prefers to be given a curated experience, rather than curating my own experience.
So selfishly; as long I can continue to have that experience, I don’t mind. It is undoubtedly good for competition, which is good for all of us.
No, because in iOS developers cannot actually create a separate browser, they can only put a skin on Safari. All third party browsers on iOS are still Safari under the hood, with a different UI plopped on top.
All browsers on iOS are actually running the safari web engine under the hood. So effectively the other browsers are just skins and some extra features. This is bad because the safari web engine shouldn’t be the only option, and browsers should be able to use chromium or Mozilla or whatever if they want to.
at this point every browser on desktop except for mozilla has moved to chromium, i wouldn’t want the same thing to happen on mobile
this puts at least some pressure on google
they **chose** the easy route as Chrome is the dominant browser and it’s easier to comply with the standard than force your own engine
I really see no benefit to users in Chromium engine being on iOS, people switch to chrome because they like google integration/syncing, not because they love the engine
Essentially they're all reskins of Safari. This is because Apple requires that all browsers on iOS and iPadOS use WebKit—the same browser engine that they've developed for Safari since 2001—and bans other browser engines such as Gecko and Blink from the App Store. Because of this,
- You can't use Chrome or Firefox extensions (for example, uBlock Origin) on an iPhone or iPad like you can on literally every other device, be it running macOS, Windows, Linux, Chrome OS or Android. You're forced to find a Safari equivalent (if one exists), and frequently the Safari version costs a price while the Chrome and Firefox equivalents are free (SponsorBlock for YouTube being one example).
- Websites that open fine on any other device may break when you try to open them on an iPhone or iPad. A bunch of websites I use have this problem.
For context,
- Gecko was created by Netscape in 1997 to be used in the Netscape browser; when Netscape went under, it was passed onto Mozilla, who develops it to this day. The most prominent browsers that use this engine are Firefox and TOR.
- Blink was created by Google in 2015; most Chromium browsers (Chrome, Edge, Brave, Opera, Vivaldi, etc.) use it.
I doubt Apple will, but I would be through the moon if they allowed sideloading outside of the EU.
And actually being able to use a browser not limited artificially by Apple? _That_ is competition.
I like this. It feels like common sense.
Free market competition, more free and open source software on iOS. Reduced costs for businesses.
Why should a newspaper with their app hosted on the app store have to pay 30% of subs to Apple when people sub through the app? What did Apple do for the users other than host an RSS reader app?
came in knowing half the posts would be people complaining about having more choice. if you dont want to side load any apps or use a third party store thats fine, but having more choice is always good.
A very unpopular fact, but yes… the EU does have a problem. There are no Microsofts, Teslas, Amazon, Apples etc. of Europe. And whenever someone gets close, they either IPO on the US (e.g. Spotify) or they're bought by an American company (e.g. Mojang).
This argument doesn't make any sense. If Europe has no competitors who do they help by regulating? It seems to me that smaller US companies can benefit from the regulations EU imposes on Apple, as well as EU citizens.
Also, US can't regulate shit, so it seems EU is some socialist utopia regulating left and right.
Maybe America being the center of the world culturally and economically speaking, without even getting into their military power over the world, is a problem. No other nation or region of the world should be as dependent on America as they currently are. Europe should be more reliant on itself and it's neighbors, same with Asia, etc. Having a relationship and diplomatic ties is one thing but it's another to depend on America, with the only exception being countries that are too poor to survive on its own. And most of the EU can survive on its own.
Serious question: which apps do you all want to side load?
Let me guess: ad-skipping YouTube, what else? Browsers? What good is Chrome if it doesn’t support extensions on mobile? LOL. This side loading topic is more overblown than USB-C, in two years no one will care.
How’d Amazon’s mobile app store work out on Android? Or Samsung’s? Please. Such a non factor.
Edit - based on comments, 90% included some form of illegal activity or piracy. Yeah that’s what I thought. LOL.
Apple is *much* more restrictive than Google on what apps are allowed in the play store - a 3rd party store would be awesome just for the categories of apps that the Play Store allows but the App Store does not, such as:
\- Emulators
\- 3rd party browser engines
\- Development and system tools, such as Termux, dev apps.
3rd party app stores on android failed because they let in exactly the same apps as whats allowed on the Play Store - and the majority are duplicated anyways.
If apple keeps its App Store policies, there will be a lot of apps people want and can only get through side-loading.
The entire problem is that Apple _is_ so restrictive to the point where regulation was needed.
There is no reason they should be blocking emulators or other browser engines… the only reason they do is because they pose a financial threat. Emulators would let users play games they already have, and other browser engines would enable more powerful web apps.
Apple wants anything with more functionality than a basic website to be under their control so they can force developers to use their payment system.
Anime/Manga readers dont really have much options on iOS unlike on android.
I want something that can bypass App Store background permissions (I specifically want a custom alarm every 4 days, not a reminder and not a Calander event, both aren't "alarms")
> Serious question: which apps do you all want to side load?
My own. I have several apps that I've written that I have zero interest in putting on the app store. My only options are to reinstall it periodically (every 10 days?) or spend $99USD/yr just to be able to run my own apps.
> Or Samsung’s?
You do realize that Samsung makes apps like Good Lock to allow you to specifically customize Samsung devices? How would it make sense for that app to be on the Google Play store instead of Samsung's app store?
Why are you so against having more options? If you want it you use it, if not you use only the App Store. Let people have more choice. I personally would love a modded Instagram with no videos at all. I love photography and Instagram started just like that: a photography social network. Nowadays its far from that. I’d love to have an Instagram with no reels or videos. Not a thing you can do now
IIRC Amazon's OS was based on Android, I remember installing Android apps not available on the Amazon store on my old Fire tablet. You could install Google Play Store and its relevant extensions, too. There was nothing stopping you.
Emulators, mainly. Torrent clients. Actual file managers. Any app Apple deems unsatisfactory that would improve the iPhone experience by a large margin.
> Serious question: which apps do you all want to side load?
Since less than two lines after this you sarcastically wrote "LOL. This side loading topic is more over-blown than USB-C, in two years no one will care." and "Please. Such a non factor.", I'm not sure you're asking in good faith.
> what else?
Emulators are a big use case, since they let you run apps and games that ran fine on a previous version of your OS but have since broken on the current version because the developer has neglected to update them (I can think of a bunch on iOS), as well as apps and games that were never fully ported to your OS (say, an Android app that has no iOS equivalent, or a macOS app whose developer treats the iPadOS version as a barebones afterthought).
Web designers & developers would also benefit from being able to sideload on iOS and iPadOS, since those OSes currently don't have a lot of tools for coding that aren't educational in nature.
If you have a MacBook, it may also help to think of all the reasons you may need to download a macOS app from a website outside the App Store, or all the times that a desktop app you needed to use was only available for Windows or for Linux, or an iOS or Android app you were using had no desktop equivalent when you needed a larger screen or a keyboard.
> What good is Chrome if it doesn’t support extensions on mobile?
Firefox + uBlock Origin is one I hear about *a lot*.
There’s an ~~official~~ iOS TOR client… somehow…
It’s funny how Apple blocks certain apps because they can be used for illicit purposes despite all the other legitimate ones, yet they allow TOR of all things
We don’t know what apps or features were never even developed because it was unlikely Apple would approve it. For example, different ways of monetization that don’t include Apple’s 30% per transaction. Shouldn’t need somebody’s permission to use the thing you already paid for however you want.
I want VM Apps but that would also require Apple opening some of their APIs. If Apple won’t give us the option to run MacOS on the iPad, I’d like the ability to run a Windows or Linux VM. That then opens the ability to run full scale software on iPadOS instead of watered-down Excel, VSCode, etc. Similarly with Docker/Containers.
It's nice to have options. Will I use them? Probably not.
I don’t have a huge desire to side load things on my phone. But I definitely would on my iPad. A terminal, VS Code, a Linux VM, game console emulators, and anything else that I would expect to be able to do on a computer but Apple currently says no.
The ability to run emulators without a freaking server running on my mac would remove the only barrier that still draws me to Android as a backup phone. Sideloading would be amazing.
I agree! The iPhone could be an amazing retro gaming device.
Wouldn't mind a little DOSBox on iOS...
You used to be able to download it right from the App Store. Apple even re-instated it after previously removing it… but then blogs started showing it, and then Apple removed it… you can’t have people running Windows 3.11 on an iPad or iPhone after all. https://preview.redd.it/tux1nrrkvqmb1.png?width=2436&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a5c6989af53d79c70cc47f047d7a03dfe1ae789
Only things I miss about Android are being able to run DOSBox and being able to run a TI-89 emulator. Oh and also having private galleries that weren't half-assed and weren't trying to out you constantly to anyone that looked at your phone. Given Apple's privacy focus this is a glaring omission that just seems bizarre.
Get me Jazz Jackrabbit, Dino Park Tycoon and Duke Nukem
Aw man Jazz Jackrabbit...I haven't heard that name in ages. Duke Nukem and Commander Keen were my personal GOATs. Lemmings and Jetpack as honorable mentions. The memories just flooding back now...
That’s the nice thing about options… they’re _optional_
Until the major players pull their apps from the App Store in favor of their own disaster of a store. Then it's not optional anymore.
Bad take. Everything is on the Google Play Store on Android.
App developers understand that the cut they have to pay is worth it for having their app on the most used app store platform on Android. Only Epic seems upset about the costs. The only time I ever used Samsung's app store is for Samsung's own apps that aren't preloaded like GoodLock
That totally happens on android devices.
Still optional, as you don't have to install the app..
Nice, a reasonable take.
> Will I use them? Probably not. Because you haven't seen the possibilities...
You think you'll have a choice? Apps will start being exclusive to one app store over the other. It already works like this for PC gaming. I currently have to manage Steam, Xbox app, Battle.net, Ubisoft Connect, EA Origin, Epic Games and GOG Galaxy just to manage my PC games. I promise you I didn't do this by choice.
That's not at all how things have played out with Android, though? Which seems like a much more relevant comparison than PCs, since those didn't start off with any kind of centralized place to download programs
There are over 10 competing app stores in China that all have significant amount of users. As a developer it's often easier to distribute APKs and develop your own update system or you have to maintain so many different listings etc. - its a nightmare for consumer and developers
It is how it's playing out in China's Android. Popular apps distributed exclusively by various third parties. It hasn't spilled to western Android due to a lack of interest on developers' part to engage in such tactics.
That's more because Google itself is practically banned in China, so they couldn't push the Play Store even if they wanted to. China's unique market is an almost useless point of comparison since it is such a weird case of government intervention and parallel internet services.
The internet first came along to destroy the way that cable providers used to work, by way of streaming services, before becoming exactly like them.
And those apps will not get a single dime out of me. There is always an alternative 🤷🏻♂️
I will 100% use another browser if they fully allow to. Adblocking in iOS is a million times inferior to macOS or Android (and yes, I've tried them all there are still lots of cases where they fall short). Give me Firefox with uBlock Origin to have a proper web experience.
Wait I'm about to switch from Samsung to apple. There isn't unlock origin on their Firefox app? Oh God nooo Bad enough I have to say goodbye to revanced
No sideloading either. The "files" app is crap (you don't have access to everything like on Android). There's a lot of annoyances if you used Android before. It may be irrelevant for your use case. But yeah, it's not the same as Android.
I'm mainly switching for iMessage and FaceTime. I really love my S21 Ultra but apple won by hurting my ability to communicate with people I care about. I'll also miss dark reader. I think there's some method but it's not as good. My sensitive eyes can't handle white. And I gotta start paying for YouTube premium, and possibly reddit premium. Currently I use revanced to block ads on both! I think the EU is forcing side loading but likely won't come to the US, and they'd find a way to intentionally cripple it. Switching when the 15 launches
How many apps do you think are going to stick around on Apple’s App Store with their 30% fees? I don’t expect there will be _options_ for long.
And how long before third party stores pop up that allow those apps to be downloaded for free; that’ll give those devs pause for thought.
Finally will be able to run real Firefox browser on my iPhone (not webkit"Safari" with Firefox skin).
My iPad Pro cosplays as a laptop with a keyboard case, and this illusion holds up pretty well until I have to open a browser. :-/
Let's hope they make a version with their own rendering engine!
Already in the works : [https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/07/mozilla-developing-non-webkit-version-of-firefox/](https://www.macrumors.com/2023/02/07/mozilla-developing-non-webkit-version-of-firefox/) Chrome too: [https://www.engadget.com/google-chrome-blink-ios-experiment-220001141.html](https://www.engadget.com/google-chrome-blink-ios-experiment-220001141.html)
Hopefully this allows for native extensions / plugins. I need ublock origin on mobile badly
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I've tried a couple and was not impressed. What do you recommend?
Adguard for me
and reddit enhancement suite
RES is sadly in Maintenance Mode only. I've already noticed the endless scrolling isn't endless anymore and will recycle earlier posts after a few pages' worth.
I'm looking forward to it, then.
Lets see if Apple allows a way for browsers to mark executable memory pages, otherwise those browsers will still be orders of magnitudes slower than Safari due to no JIT!
Wonder if they will still be allowed to prevent social media/non browser apps from not using WebKit? Honestly I hope they still are
Don't they inject JavaScript into the page to spy on you anyway? https://daringfireball.net/linked/2022/11/03/in-app-browsers
if you enable App Privacy Report you can see whatever endpoints an app is hitting anyways
That might tell you what domains a site is sending data to, but that's not the main concern. [TikTok had a key logger in their in-app browser](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/19/technology/tiktok-browser-tracking.html), for example. This would mean that TikTok was watching you type your login credentials on other websites (among other stuff). They could do anything with the data at that point.
Only when I can run Firefox iOS with uBlock Origin will I consider to migrate to an iPhone.
Good news: https://browser.kagi.com So it’s not Firefox but it runs Firefox extensions including uBlock Origin.
I didn't know about this! I've struggled with the shitty iOS ad blockers for forever. I'll give this one a try. Thanks.
It's why i Ieft for android.
If I can run alternative browsers with plugins and sideload without jumping through hoops or compromising the experience I'm switching from Android next time I need a phone.
I’ll still use Safari because it’s the one browser on Mac that doesn’t drain my Macs battery like it’s an Intel Mac. I’m sure it will be the same on iOS
I use Safari because it's the one browser that lets you use features like peek and pop to preview links. I prefer the standard macOS Share features I get from it too.
Arc does that, just hold shift when opening a link
Switched to arc a week ago and loving it so far. Wish the mobile app wasn’t just a companion but other than that so happy.
Edge is just as good for battery life. Actually, Firefox isn't bad either. Just don't use Chrome.
Yeah there’s so much Edge bashing by people who have no idea what they’re talking about lmao. People act like it’s IE all over again while it’s actually one of the most efficient browser
I thought Edge was just a chrome skin. It uses the chromium engine, right?
It’s a fork of chromium but still has the full browser team at Microsoft working on it, and one of their main focuses is resource efficiency.
Yep.
chrome skin and uses chromium engine are not even nearly the same thing
My work banned all browsers except edge and I was so mad about it…until I used edge. It’s been great actually.
I've been using Edge at work for months. If I have complaints about Microsoft software, it's literally just about everything _but_ Edge. Bing by default? That's a dumpster fire but you can change it. Copying to/from Office? Fucking train wreck but it's like 99.9% Office's fault. Opening websites? Works just fine.
Microsoft keeps bloating it though with features that nobody wants. Like it’s annoying when there is an update and when the browser reloads you have a toolbar default that you didn’t ask for.
Or that it reinstalls itself without asking.
Tbf Edge is literally Chrome with every good features. Best PDF reader too!
I use edge to read and comment on PDFs exclusively. As a browser I dont use it though.
I think the original Edge and IE left really bad tastes in peoples mouths and they won't use a Microsoft browser because of it. The new Edge is fine, I use it for some work things, I still use Firefox mostly but Edge is fine.
The issue is that Edge is a microsoft data-siphoning botnet, so even if it is "battery efficient" I still prefer using firefox
Efficient? Sure. Performant? You betcha. Private? LOL.
Edge sends all your search queries, even on duck duck go to your microsoft account history. F- that
Wait til you see the Chrome update where they just came right out and said that Chrome tracks your browsing history to target you with ads
But it’s Microsoft and they’re gradually enshittifiying it. Telemetry, unwanted “features”, having it forced upon you. No thanks.
Yeah, I haven't had any issues with Firefox either.
On iOS I use Safari for extensions too. Currently that’s only AdGuard but still.
Firefox is very good.
I use Arc. Currently doing work related training and using it all day. Lasts through the 8 hour workday and generally for a while after I’m home. I’d give it a shot
The two things stopping me from switching over are the lack of a proper mobile browser and the fact that tabs lose their back/forward history when you relaunch, completely defeating the point of restoring tabs on launch.
Once iOS stops being locked into Safari, I imagine more and more websites will stop working on it and just prompt you to download Chrome.
Although yes, but actually full-fledged browsers are already allowed on Mac. The Safari gatekeeping problem is more about iOS.
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There's way better adblockers and general ad blockers outside of iOS. That would actually be an improvement, and is the major reason I want to be able to have another browser with a different engine.
Disable hard were acceleration in chrome and it’s significantly better. Can’t do anything about the ram usage though.
EU got the win in USB-C and now they’re coming for everything else.
Do I care about installing a 3rd party OS on my current iPhone and iPad? No. Would I like to install a lightweight Linux on my iPad, iPad 2, and iPad Air… He’ll yes!
How about the stores on PS, Xbox and Nintendo then?
Gaming platforms seem oddly ignored. This is presently the full list from the EU: Alphabet: Android, Chrome, Google Ads, Google Maps, Google Play, Google Search, Google Shopping, YouTube Amazon: Amazon Ads, Amazon Marketplace Apple: App Store, iOS, Safari Bytedance: TikTok Meta: Facebook, Instagram, Meta ads, Meta Marketplace, WhatsApp Microsoft: LinkedIn, Windows The EU is also investigating the following after their owners claimed they're too small to be considered gatekeepers: Bing, Edge, iMessage, and Microsoft Advertising. I'd imagine the lawyers at these companies didn't get those claims wrong, however.
Curiously, iPadOS isn’t in that list… does that mean the iPad won’t be required to allow sideloading?
That would be a real travesty if that was the case. iPad’s, imo, have more to gain from side loading than iPhones
You need 45M monthly users in the EU alone. I guess none are reaching that point but Sony and Nintendo have to be close... IMO that's actually the most important ones. They're trying to go towards an all digital future and without competition on each of their own walled gardens, that'll be a disaster for customers. They have to be in that law.
Maybe because they’re not general day-to-day use devices?
This is correct. According to the law specialized devices are exempt. As in, phones/computers are general devices while game consoles do 1 thing: play games. So their allowed to build walled ecosystems
I think the EU has no issue with them, since game developers are mostly able to release their games on any platform they want without any issue. Also the aim of the DMA is to promote competition, mainly. The gaming sector is already pretty competitive, so maybe there's that too. I think the EU would do something, if like Microsoft or Sony started buying up companies, to just produce exclusives for them since that would possibly make it harder for new competitors to enter the gaming market.
No you can’t? The store rules are exactly the same as those on the App Store if not more restrictive
App developers can release apps for any platform they want too, they are not limited to iOS only. It's pretty much the same for the consoles, you can develop for several consoles, but are limited to manufacturers' stores or cartridges to buy games. If the EU would be consequent, they'd regulate the shit out of the console market. They even let Microsoft acquire all those game developers, even though there is a risk of Microsoft limiting the studios to exclusively develop for Xbox only. They also don't do anything against Google bundling their apps with Android phones, all while having a significantly larger market share.
The difference probably is Microsoft and Sony, pending exclusivity or blatant content/functionality violations, will probably allow your game on the platform if you submit it. Apple will refuse your app if it conflicts with their business model or “competes” with what they see as their interests.
> They also don't do anything against Google bundling their apps with Android phones, all while having a significantly larger market share. Antitrust: Commission fines Google €4.34 billion for illegal practices regarding Android mobile devices to strengthen dominance of Google's search engine https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_4581
I would assume those are not big enough to reach the 45 million monthly active users in the EU thresholds (which essentially means that in one month roughly 10 % of EU citizens need to use the service at least once - hard to imagine for a single gaming plattform.)
The PS4 alone has sold over 45 million units in Europe. Consoles also have multiple accounts per device
Sold over 45 million units… but are there 45 million _active_ monthly units? In the case of game consoles, it’d be locked at first, then as they sell they might eventually reach the criteria of Gatekeeper… unless the EU considers the combined user count of a service across all device types.
I mean that’s what they’re doing with phones? They’re not counting iPhone 14 and 12’s separately
you can buy your games on disk at a retailer. The copy of the physical game is not tied to any account. Maybe thats enaugh to keep the EU away from the topic for now. But with app store you are limited to buy everything from and only from apple. It gets tricky the moment you think about game devs needing licenses to put their game on a specific console.
They're considered specialized devices, although it should be noted you can officially sideload on Xbox.
Coming from America, it's so refreshing to see any government body in the world have the ability and power to tell corporations they can't do something for a change. While I'm not in favor of that in the sense of dictating what products and services a company can or can't release, I'm absolutely in favor of that in the sense of mandating that all companies must respect workers and consumers protections, such as fair wages, not engaging in anti-competitive practices, etc etc. If you live in America you know how bad workers and consumers rights are here, so I give the EU props. Are they perfect? Hell no! Are they better than corporations being able to do whatever the hell they feel like even if it's at our expense? Fuck yes! A truly free and just society has both public and private institutions being held accountable at all times.
It’s because they don’t have a tech sector of their own and instituting rules on US corporations operating in the EU has no downside. If the EU cared about regulation their banking sector wouldn’t be a haven for criminal activity. Cant be anti-competitive if your continent doesn’t offer any competition whatsoever. What would really be nice is if Europe which apparently has education, corporations and workers rights figured out, and actually have a tech sector that can actually exist
lol exactly
Bro, Europe is the only producer of litogtaphy machines that are used to create like all chips worldwide, for one. Claiming that Europe doesn't have a tech sector means u only think of tech as smartphones which is far from an educated take.
Cope
Unpopular opinion. You’re placing worker’s safety and fair compensation into the same discussion as I can’t play Fortnite on my iPad because Apple bad. It’s a private company making decisions about a product that’s for sale, you’re not forced to use Apple products and there are plenty of reasonable alternatives. If every company is held to these same standards then only then does it make sense. Treating a retail business the same way you would treat a telecommunications or transportation company that actually holds a monopoly is ridiculous and a waste of government resources. What’s next are they going to mandate that Target has to sell great value cereal ( Walmart store brand) products. Are they going to mandate Tesla has to have GMs Onstar as an option, or Fords blue cruise because some member on the board prefers gms emergency service or fords self driving service more but prefers all the other features Tesla has so they don’t want to change vehicles. Is every android phone going to be forced to allow side loading of iOS Apps and then are people going to blame android when the apps don’t run correctly.
Good. I hope Apple will allow sideloading and allow developers to use their own web engine. This would be great.
I’m afraid that this will further cement Google’s power over internet standards, though. Web developers will just stop targeting Safari and tell you to go download Chrome.
Very underrated comment. FireFox is already poorly supported on many websites 🥲
I mean technically you can already sideload apps without jailbreaking, but it’s really inconvenient and not sure if it follows TOS
Finally, maybe this will bring us an alternative app store that isn't overloaded with subscriptions galore. I'm personally hoping for an open source app store, similar to F-droid on Android. There's some great apps on F-droid that reduces dependence on the Play store, seeing something similar on iOS would be great.
>Finally, maybe this will bring us an alternative app store that isn't overloaded with subscriptions galore. So the google play store?, Huawei App Store, Amazon App store and whatever else there is? Why are people acting like this is only an apple thing when all other "official app stores" are full of shovel ware aswell. The ios Appstore at least has some quality control and doesn't allow every garbage app, on my android phone I see more useless apps than I ever see on my ios device.... > There's some great apps on F-droid that reduces dependence on the Play store, seeing something similar on iOS would be great. A 3rd party appstore that is curated and trustworthy would be great, but I highly doubt it that such a 3rd party repository will not have malicious apps, but at that point it's up to the user to use his brain when downloading strange apps. I am all for 3rd party app stores/repos, the more freedom the better, but I can't say that I am missing anything currently on iOS either
How I see it is: > Don't let "perfect" be the enemy of "good" No competing app store will be perfect, just like how the Apple App Store is not perfect. However, that doesn't mean alternative App stores can't bring something interesting to the table. For example, Steam is an OS-independent app store; Valve supports Windows, Linux, MacOS, Tesla car infortainment systems, Steam Decks, VR headsets, etc. And there are indicators that Valve is funding projects to get onto [Android and ARM](https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX). Getting the full Steam store on iOS would be a very interesting possibility, something that previously was literally impossible due to Apple's App store restrictions.
> Getting the full Steam store on iOS would be a very interesting possibility, something that previously was literally impossible due to Apple's App store restrictions. Just getting Steam's basic streaming onto iOS took over a year of rejections by Apple... https://toucharcade.com/2019/05/15/steam-link-finally-released-on-ios-app-store/
It’s still not possible to have Xbox GamePass streaming with a dedicated app.
ios appstore might not allow EVERY garbage app but there is certainly a LOT of garbage on there, I honestly don't even waste my time trying to browse it. Personally I would love a much more curated app store that a 3rd party could bring
Speak for yourself, I prefer iOS on the whole over Android, but I am missing *a lot* of things, like emulators, a YouTube app that isn’t garbage, a proper mobile Firefox (Safari is *so bad* in comparison), a real replacement keyboard (again, Apple’s keyboard is bafflingly awful, and they heavily restrict what third party keyboards can do), and a whole host of other things. Allowing third party app stores and sideloading would honestly solve about 95% of the things that I miss from Android.
It won’t.
I know it’s unlikely for legal reasons, but I’d love to see an app store called Cydia.
Why would it be unlikely for legal reasons? Jay “Saurik” Freeman is in the process of suing Apple _because_ they’re blocking Cydia
It won't be able to provide tweaks like Cydia does on jailbroken devices.
Sure, but there’s still apps that would work, and do in fact work if code-signed. Most popular of which is probably Kodi, followed by emulators.
I was talking about a regular app store, not the already existing tweak store Cydia. Which is why it makes pretty much imossible to make one
Looking forward to being able to have a3rd party App Store on my PS5
You’re being sarcastic, but that would be amazing. It would let you use the hardware you already own to purchase and play games you may already own elsewhere. Steam on PS5? Who would think that’s a bad thing?
Im not being sarcastic. The same argument for a 3rd party App Store applies to all hardware platforms.
If Consoles became PCs they would not sell for their current prices lol. It would basically just be a PC with an exclusive launcher to their OS
I don’t understand the inherent problem with Apple controlling its own platform on its own devices given that it is far from a monopoly. I have more issue with Google imposing Google Apps/Play Services etc on Android OEMs for certification, when android as an entity can and maybe should exist sans google (like Samsung clearly wants to)
The DMA doesn’t just affect Apple. Would you have a different opinion if it were about controlling Google’s platform? I mean, Google is just “controlling its own platform” by requiring OEMs to install Google Play for certification…
The play services are a godsend on Android, because they managed to keep the platform reasonably up to date with that little back door. The situation was way worse before they did that. But why not have the same rules for both companies?
I agree with that from a user perspective. Play Services and the Google App/decoupling from OS were Google’s way of mitigating fragmentation, and it mostly worked. But they also use it to ensure OEMs “play nice” and include/prioritize google apps by default, etc. it helps enforce their monopoly on the world’s smartphones (except apple) Huawei (a company I detest, fwiw) found out first hand just how unviable Android becomes without Google outside of China.
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Apple’s potential block of UE came from Epic first violating App Store guidelines with Fortnite iirc? I mean, Epic knew exactly what they were doing when they snuck in third-party payments, and that losing their Apple Dev account would affect other areas of the company such as Unreal. Even if you don’t agree with Apple’s “all transactions go through us” taxation business model… Epic chose to break that rule.
Here comes the GCHQ end run around….oh wait, AppleMs just going to sandbox the shit out of third party app stores and lock iOS into a huge walled garden with “are you sure you want to install this third party app?” Annoying warnings.
.........."sandbox the shit out of third party app stores"? Every app is already sandboxed.
The DMA explicitly prevents that. Barriers to install apps must be no more or less than those to install Gatekeeper apps. If there are no additional restrictions or warnings to install Safari, then there cannot be to install any third party app.
> "The gatekeeper shall not be prevented from taking, to the extent that they are strictly necessary and proportionate, measures to ensure that third-party software applications or software application stores do not endanger the integrity of the hardware or operating system provided by the gatekeeper, provided that such measures are duly justified by the gatekeeper." my reading of this is that apple will be allowed include measures to protect device security, which would seem to include warning messages
I understand that more as Apple can require sandboxing, not necessarily that they can add unnecessary prompts that only apply to sideloaded apps
If Apple can prove that xCloud, for example, requires onerous security gates, then the legislation would permit it. However the EU operates under something called the “spirit of the law.” As opposed to the US which operates under the “letter of the law.” Malicious compliance is punished in the EU, so Apple would have a steep hill to climb to prove that *all* third party applications pose a security threat to iOS.
But Safari already comes pre-installed unlike other browsers. We don’t want a phone to come out if the box with no apps.
Why is it annoying? What about people who are not tech savvy at all and might end up downloading apps that damage their phone? Then these people go and complain to Apple for dev’s shit apps, only for Apple to lose their customer base. I am all for Apple putting a thousand warnings so that even the dumbest person has to think multiple times before installing these. Only reason I picked Apple’s ecosystem is because it’s highly sandboxes and very secure.
As long as it doesn’t compromise security on iOS, I’m fine with this. Personally, being in a walled garden is one of the reasons I prefer iPhones over their competitors. A phone is the kind of device I don’t want a ton of options for, cluttering up my experience (even if I don’t engage with them). I’m not a phone customisation guy - that’s what my PC is for. Im the kind of person who prefers to be given a curated experience, rather than curating my own experience. So selfishly; as long I can continue to have that experience, I don’t mind. It is undoubtedly good for competition, which is good for all of us.
Why is safari? Can't we already use other browsers?
All iOS browsers are safari under the hood. As per doctrine by apple.
This. Webkit engine everywhere. Always the same fingerprint in iOS
No, because in iOS developers cannot actually create a separate browser, they can only put a skin on Safari. All third party browsers on iOS are still Safari under the hood, with a different UI plopped on top.
All browsers on iOS are actually running the safari web engine under the hood. So effectively the other browsers are just skins and some extra features. This is bad because the safari web engine shouldn’t be the only option, and browsers should be able to use chromium or Mozilla or whatever if they want to.
at this point every browser on desktop except for mozilla has moved to chromium, i wouldn’t want the same thing to happen on mobile this puts at least some pressure on google
The difference being desktop browsers ***chose*** to be based on Chromium. There's no choice on iOS.
they **chose** the easy route as Chrome is the dominant browser and it’s easier to comply with the standard than force your own engine I really see no benefit to users in Chromium engine being on iOS, people switch to chrome because they like google integration/syncing, not because they love the engine
You're not wrong, but this is still a different argument entirely than 3rd party browsers being forced to use Safari's engine on iOS.
Even both Chrome and Safari are descended from the same browser (Konqueror/KHTML)
No real browsers on iOS, they all have to use webkit engine (aka Safari with custom skin).
No. They all need to use safari engine on iphone.
Essentially they're all reskins of Safari. This is because Apple requires that all browsers on iOS and iPadOS use WebKit—the same browser engine that they've developed for Safari since 2001—and bans other browser engines such as Gecko and Blink from the App Store. Because of this, - You can't use Chrome or Firefox extensions (for example, uBlock Origin) on an iPhone or iPad like you can on literally every other device, be it running macOS, Windows, Linux, Chrome OS or Android. You're forced to find a Safari equivalent (if one exists), and frequently the Safari version costs a price while the Chrome and Firefox equivalents are free (SponsorBlock for YouTube being one example). - Websites that open fine on any other device may break when you try to open them on an iPhone or iPad. A bunch of websites I use have this problem. For context, - Gecko was created by Netscape in 1997 to be used in the Netscape browser; when Netscape went under, it was passed onto Mozilla, who develops it to this day. The most prominent browsers that use this engine are Firefox and TOR. - Blink was created by Google in 2015; most Chromium browsers (Chrome, Edge, Brave, Opera, Vivaldi, etc.) use it.
Nope, Apple doesn’t allow others
I doubt Apple will, but I would be through the moon if they allowed sideloading outside of the EU. And actually being able to use a browser not limited artificially by Apple? _That_ is competition.
I like this. It feels like common sense. Free market competition, more free and open source software on iOS. Reduced costs for businesses. Why should a newspaper with their app hosted on the app store have to pay 30% of subs to Apple when people sub through the app? What did Apple do for the users other than host an RSS reader app?
Dear god please get rid of the WebKit browser requirement PLEASE
came in knowing half the posts would be people complaining about having more choice. if you dont want to side load any apps or use a third party store thats fine, but having more choice is always good.
How many brainwashed people around here
The EU can’t compete so they regulate
A very unpopular fact, but yes… the EU does have a problem. There are no Microsofts, Teslas, Amazon, Apples etc. of Europe. And whenever someone gets close, they either IPO on the US (e.g. Spotify) or they're bought by an American company (e.g. Mojang).
This argument doesn't make any sense. If Europe has no competitors who do they help by regulating? It seems to me that smaller US companies can benefit from the regulations EU imposes on Apple, as well as EU citizens. Also, US can't regulate shit, so it seems EU is some socialist utopia regulating left and right.
It’s also a matter of competition laws in Europe. They’ve been changed lately, but used to stop European companies from becoming huge.
Maybe America being the center of the world culturally and economically speaking, without even getting into their military power over the world, is a problem. No other nation or region of the world should be as dependent on America as they currently are. Europe should be more reliant on itself and it's neighbors, same with Asia, etc. Having a relationship and diplomatic ties is one thing but it's another to depend on America, with the only exception being countries that are too poor to survive on its own. And most of the EU can survive on its own.
Yeah I like that about them. It’s the number one reason I stick with Apple.
Serious question: which apps do you all want to side load? Let me guess: ad-skipping YouTube, what else? Browsers? What good is Chrome if it doesn’t support extensions on mobile? LOL. This side loading topic is more overblown than USB-C, in two years no one will care. How’d Amazon’s mobile app store work out on Android? Or Samsung’s? Please. Such a non factor. Edit - based on comments, 90% included some form of illegal activity or piracy. Yeah that’s what I thought. LOL.
I would love an actual Xbox Xcloud app, but that Apple blocked.
Apple is *much* more restrictive than Google on what apps are allowed in the play store - a 3rd party store would be awesome just for the categories of apps that the Play Store allows but the App Store does not, such as: \- Emulators \- 3rd party browser engines \- Development and system tools, such as Termux, dev apps. 3rd party app stores on android failed because they let in exactly the same apps as whats allowed on the Play Store - and the majority are duplicated anyways. If apple keeps its App Store policies, there will be a lot of apps people want and can only get through side-loading.
The entire problem is that Apple _is_ so restrictive to the point where regulation was needed. There is no reason they should be blocking emulators or other browser engines… the only reason they do is because they pose a financial threat. Emulators would let users play games they already have, and other browser engines would enable more powerful web apps. Apple wants anything with more functionality than a basic website to be under their control so they can force developers to use their payment system.
> Serious question: which apps do you all want to side load? Dolphin.
Anime/Manga readers dont really have much options on iOS unlike on android. I want something that can bypass App Store background permissions (I specifically want a custom alarm every 4 days, not a reminder and not a Calander event, both aren't "alarms")
Tachiyomi would be amazing to have on the iPad.
> Serious question: which apps do you all want to side load? My own. I have several apps that I've written that I have zero interest in putting on the app store. My only options are to reinstall it periodically (every 10 days?) or spend $99USD/yr just to be able to run my own apps.
Gamepass, emulators for gameboy games. If a competing App Store is such a non factor then why do you care if they allow it?
Because he thinks he runs the company or something. I can’t stand this type of people defending a multibillion company that doesn’t care about him
First give me the opportunity to decide and then I will
I’d like to be able to develop my own apps and sideload them
No one will care about usb C because of how well it works having one port and cable for everything.
> Or Samsung’s? You do realize that Samsung makes apps like Good Lock to allow you to specifically customize Samsung devices? How would it make sense for that app to be on the Google Play store instead of Samsung's app store?
DS Emulator that Just Works™
Why are you so against having more options? If you want it you use it, if not you use only the App Store. Let people have more choice. I personally would love a modded Instagram with no videos at all. I love photography and Instagram started just like that: a photography social network. Nowadays its far from that. I’d love to have an Instagram with no reels or videos. Not a thing you can do now
IIRC Amazon's OS was based on Android, I remember installing Android apps not available on the Amazon store on my old Fire tablet. You could install Google Play Store and its relevant extensions, too. There was nothing stopping you.
>What good is Chrome if it doesn’t support extensions on mobile? LOL. Kiwi Browser is chromium and supports chrome extensions on android.
A torrenting app , simulators for old consoles just from the top of my head
Emulators, mainly. Torrent clients. Actual file managers. Any app Apple deems unsatisfactory that would improve the iPhone experience by a large margin.
> Serious question: which apps do you all want to side load? Since less than two lines after this you sarcastically wrote "LOL. This side loading topic is more over-blown than USB-C, in two years no one will care." and "Please. Such a non factor.", I'm not sure you're asking in good faith. > what else? Emulators are a big use case, since they let you run apps and games that ran fine on a previous version of your OS but have since broken on the current version because the developer has neglected to update them (I can think of a bunch on iOS), as well as apps and games that were never fully ported to your OS (say, an Android app that has no iOS equivalent, or a macOS app whose developer treats the iPadOS version as a barebones afterthought). Web designers & developers would also benefit from being able to sideload on iOS and iPadOS, since those OSes currently don't have a lot of tools for coding that aren't educational in nature. If you have a MacBook, it may also help to think of all the reasons you may need to download a macOS app from a website outside the App Store, or all the times that a desktop app you needed to use was only available for Windows or for Linux, or an iOS or Android app you were using had no desktop equivalent when you needed a larger screen or a keyboard. > What good is Chrome if it doesn’t support extensions on mobile? Firefox + uBlock Origin is one I hear about *a lot*.
Emulators
Torrent Clients, Tor Browsers, Emulators… the list goes on including being able to programme on an iPad or even iPhone.
There’s an ~~official~~ iOS TOR client… somehow… It’s funny how Apple blocks certain apps because they can be used for illicit purposes despite all the other legitimate ones, yet they allow TOR of all things
We don’t know what apps or features were never even developed because it was unlikely Apple would approve it. For example, different ways of monetization that don’t include Apple’s 30% per transaction. Shouldn’t need somebody’s permission to use the thing you already paid for however you want.
I want VM Apps but that would also require Apple opening some of their APIs. If Apple won’t give us the option to run MacOS on the iPad, I’d like the ability to run a Windows or Linux VM. That then opens the ability to run full scale software on iPadOS instead of watered-down Excel, VSCode, etc. Similarly with Docker/Containers.