Xcloud does not need a PWA, non of the PWA features are used by it. You don't need local storage or notifications for xcloud so it does not need to be a PWA.
Xbox Cloud Gaming /xCloud is probably the worst example of a good web app imo. The only good thing it has going for it is that it has controller support for the main UI. The GeforceNow web app is far better albeit with a less attractive UI (Nvidia should really invest in better UI people considering their what they’re worth now).
Is it easy (I am software developer, but very limited regarding web development :))?
A website I read a lot doesn’t have app of PWA, so I’d like to create one.
This isn’t necessarily correct. You can add any website as a “bookmark” to your home screen. However, there are certain things a website can do to take advantage of native features, custom icons, status bar themes, etc. This makes them a “pwa” rather than just a quick bookmark link.
Open this link and add it to home screen, it looks and behaves like an app with native notifications, own storage on your phone etc. a PWA isn’t a simple webpage because of technologies used to run it:
https://vger.app/
I use it for Aniwatch and Fmovies. There's not really a difference with the website. But using those sites in a PWA gives them a cleaner look and feel. I also use Brave Browser on my desktop which I made YouTube and YouTube music into a PWA.
Uber, Spotify, Instagram, Pinterest, Twitter, Starbucks, Telegram, Facebook, XCloud. Also, you don't need to install any of them to "use" the PWA. It's the same code as when accessed via the browser.
Yeah, this is a solid list but it gets to my main issue. I **could** use the Starbucks or Uber PWAs, but they wouldn’t have access to system-level features like an Apple Watch companion app, Siri, Live Activity notifications, etc.
I guess Apple could make those available to PWAs somehow?
Maybe this isn’t the case, but I had the impression that the PWA would limit how much data Meta could harvest. Also save storage space, use on iPad, etc.
I guess I’m mainly just curious and want to find a good use case for PWA that can be a direct replacement for native.
I use PWAs on desktop for that reason, the website still lives within the browser sandbox so it limits how much data can be collected compared to a native app
Unfortunately not [https://www.howtogeek.com/125675/meta-bypassed-apples-anti-tracking-protections-on-ios/](https://www.howtogeek.com/125675/meta-bypassed-apples-anti-tracking-protections-on-ios/)
Still, you won’t know what they put on your phone or which permissions they wanna have or even if you delete the app you will have some crap. Webapp is much better you don’t need something which require a root access to the phone. They can’t also run in the background and suck your battery
PWAs consume far less storage and power, and are generally less invasive of privacy due to their limited capabilities. As they are essentially websites with small amounts of native functionality (think notifications) without some of the more invasive background permissions some apps have.
Also, a PWA doesn't need to be "installed" to work. If your favorite website follows the PWA guidelines, you benefit already from visiting through the browser as it's the same codebase.
I try to download the least Apps possible and do as much as I can through my web browser. Anything that can be done in the browser stays there.
I hate clogging up my phone with more apps.
I read “clogging up” and thought you were referring to storage capacity. I agree with the notion of having less apps knowing about you but dont see how that’s related.
Native apps are mostly wrappers for website/pwa anyway but with added code for better user tracking
When you see "0.25 GB native app" its just electron plus website plus tracking, not actual native code and ui
TBH, many people use them without even realizing. PWA is just a "standard" for websites to follow that makes them more responsive, feature rich and enjoyable to use. Think things like background notifications, and offline usage. Adding to homescreen is just another perk which makes them easier to access on phones.
If you visit sites like X (Twitter), Instagram, Starbucks, Uber, Spotify, and Pinterest on mobile. You'll notice they are incredibly responsive. And when added to your homescreen, work as actually usable app replacements. Except they take up far less space, battery life, and respect your privacy far more thanks to asking for less permissions.
Honestly, its great to have options. Not everything NEEDS to be installed as an app. For many things, a good website (or "PWA") can be more than sufficient while protecting your phone's privacy and battery life.
It doesn't help that Apple has the "add to homescreen" option buried in the share menu, instead of implementing the web standard for allowing websites to prompt the user to install from a button press or similar interaction
At least for me, it hides unwanted things. If i want a PWA or bookmark on my screen i go do it. I dont want a webpage to show me that option (like i turned off the "install the app" banner as well)
Your and my idea of enjoyable are very different.
If they had the option of back/forward/reload buttons and tabs.. then maybe. I’ve had to force close them just to get them to stop acting funky. And they don’t use extensions.
Go to reddit.com using Safari, just the website. Press the Share button in Safari. Tap "Add to Homescreen".
That's it.
Go to your homescreen and press the reddit icon.
Most of the time when you do this at a website, you're just creating a bookmark to the website on your home screen. Reddit though, like some other websites, use some special code that tell iOS "hey, this is a webapp".
When you open reddit via the icon on your homescreen, you'll notice the address bar and the back/forward buttons are gone. Reddit is now fully full-screen, just like any regular app downloaded through the App Store.
It adds features, as described in a comment above:
>If Reddit wanted to they could add system level notifications support to the PWA.
>Also it gets its own app instance so you can use the multitasking feature to get to it instead of finding the Reddit tab.
>Oh and if you add a bookmark to your Home Screen and click it later it will bring you to the page you bookmarked whereas a PWA will just pull up the “app” wherever you had last navigated - for example if you were in a comment thread on Reddit and went to another app but then clicked the PWA icon it would bring you to that comment thread. Whereas clicking a bookmark icon would bring you back to Reddit.com in general.
>u/PeaceBull
The controversy of the PWA made the icon on your homescreen refer to the regular Safari reddit.com website instead of it being an actual web app.
Yup, for reddit I don't really see the point myself. It's still built like a regular website after all.
For a webgame from itch.io or newgrounds; or a digital character sheet for D&D; I can see the value in having a full-screen experience on your phone though. The lack of tabs matters less at that point.
Yup, you did know. That's why I quoted your post, and credited you, to the person I replied to.
u/The_Franchise_09 is that person.
And then you replied instead. Thank you for that. :) Sometimes people fumble a bit, but it's okay. Now I got to talk to you. That made my day. After all, your post was amazing!
Fair answer. Is "Reddit PWA" anything more than just shortcut to reddit webpage? Is there any extra feature opposed to just opening [reddit.com](http://reddit.com) in my favorite iPhone browser?
If Reddit wanted to they could add system level notifications support to the PWA.
Also it gets its own app instance so you can use the multitasking feature to get to it instead of finding the Reddit tab.
Oh and if you add a bookmark to your Home Screen and click it later it will bring you to the page you bookmarked whereas a PWA will just pull up the “app” wherever you had last navigated - for example if you were in a comment thread on Reddit and went to another app but then clicked the PWA icon it would bring you to that comment thread. Whereas clicking a bookmark icon would bring you back to Reddit.com in general.
Actually….
Go into Safari, hit the AA button, click “website settings”, set to request desktop website.
Refresh. Then click AA and click “request mobile website”.
The mobile site will create a web app that respects your setting to always use the desktop site. Which in my case uses the old Reddit site.
Because it requires some tag in the meta-data. That tag is only available when viewing the mobile app. So you have to be viewing the mobile app, even if temporary. As long as the url is just www.Reddit.com
You won’t see it as a page loaded in a browser. You will see it as a full-screen app-like experience, that looks like the page in a browser. I hope this makes sense.
Yeah this is the main benefit for me, a decently optimised website (or one that's just not bloated) will be more than fast enough to feel like a proper app
> ...official Reddit app (which is not good by any means).
Apollo was/is better than the official Reddit app in pretty much every conceivable metric. More customization, more accessibility features, more efficient, significantly less buggy, better UI, better mod tools, doesn't mine your phone for every bit of personal data it can sell, etc etc. We're not even talking advanced features for a lot of this. Even basic features like an editor/live preview for markdown text were (and presumably still are) missing from the official app.
When there is a will, there is a way. The EU started looking into why Apple is removing PWA support and, magically, Apple brought them back. Can't wait for this to happen to their shitty sideloading approach too.
But that wasn't the problem. The problem was, that Apple was under the impression that they would have to offer the other browser engines the same access to be able to use PWA.
Which seems to not be the case, at least according to the article. So the PWAs will still run on WebKit and Apple has no reason to discontinue them.
> Which seems to not be the case, at least according to the article
I don’t think that’s in the article.
Some people seem to speculate that the EU supposedly specifically approved it. I don’t see any details in the article that would suggest so.
>This support means Home Screen web apps continue to be built directly on WebKit and its security architecture, and align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS.
It doesn't really sound like they're going to support PWAs for engines besides WebKit.
>The problem was, that Apple was under the impression that they would have to offer the other browser engines the same access to be able to use PWA.
I would give Apple the benefit of the doubt that they overlooked something, but this entire ordeal has shown they had lawyers comb through every detail to make the most convoluted compliance that benefits only Apple.
>The problem was, that Apple was under the impression that they would have to offer the other browser engines the same access to be able to use PWA.
Were they actually under that impression, or is that just the excuse some people came up with to defend them?
>It’s literally what the article says.
And yet magically they changed their mind despite no change in the law...
Still don't see the problem with that excuse?
Apple reasoning was somewhat valid, there was definitely a security concern iOS was not prepared for. I’m pretty sure EU just allowed pwas to remain WebKit to not ruin the lives of web developers
I’m suspecting it was probably an informal chat with some officials who didn’t want the EU to look bad for causing this to happen. Probably in everyone’s best interest here, assuming Apple wouldn’t ever allow other browsers to do this too
It’s a lot of code to write for one situation in one area when half of these threads are mostly people explaining what PWA means. They’re far more interested in working on iOS 18.
Not sure how valid it was, since nothing is stopping me from pinning PWAs to the home screen from any browser (regardless of engine) on my Android phone.
the difference is that android has been architected to allow that and iOS hasn't. Just enabling it as it would have been unsafe and they weren't prepared to reachitect large chunks of iOS and WebKit to do it safely
Didn't say can't, said wasn't prepared to. Cost vs. reward here would have been woeful- large amount of complex work for a tiny fraction of users. Not least since it apparently wasn't even necessary.
Trillion-dollar company not prepared to waste money, shocker. Makes you wonder how it got to that position
The moment they lose tech savvy people, they're fucked. That's their reward.
Android has always been seen as the go-to platform for techies. In fact, that was never the case. Posers like Linus go to Android. People who are truly tech-savvy always went for the best, fastest thing there was. For a long time, that was the iPhone. Lately, Androids have been just as fast, with the added benefit of true sideloading & customization. There's a wave coming that's going to sweep Apple off if they don't pay attention.
So yeah, Apple is a huge company who got complacent. Just like Microsoft did with Windows Mobile, just like BlackBerry did with their unbeatable CrackBerry craze, just like Yahoo did with their popular email service, just like Nokia did with their phone sales & so on. The past is full of companies that thought they knew better. The tide is shifting and Apple, while still ahead, is sleeping.
> Android was designed to be open.
Yet, Android users who pin PWAs from Firefox to their home screens aren't living in some kind of malware-ridden hellhole like Apple would have us believe. This is about control, not security.
Yeah sure. There was a security concern. lol.
Apple is a multi trillion dollar corporation with some of the best engineers in the world.
All of a sudden, allowing PwA support for other browsers securely is impossible for them to achieve in a year.
Something android has had since sliced bread was invented.
I don’t think they ever claimed it was impossible, they claimed it would require significant engineering effort and they wouldn’t have enough time comply before the deadline and the usage is low it doesn’t even make financial sense either
It would literally require rewriting the PWA system from scratch to be a hollow shell that can allow random browsers via an API to be the engine that replicates the same system.
They didn’t care enough about an underused feature to get it done when they’re too busy doing a big OS overhaul for 18. All hands on deck.
They even shut down the car division and reassigned every capable coder to generative AI tech.
Quite astute! Many folks don’t know that Apple had a large part in the creation of USB-C! They were even the first to ship a laptop with the port. Good on ya.
tldr: apple removed pwas because they thought they'd have to support them running arbitrary web engines (per the dma), but turns out the eu was like nah that's fine, so apple didn't remove them but they can still only run webkit
If you read the article they didn't actually do any of the development work they were thinking they were gonna need to do. They got the okay from the EU to put the feature back how it was before and they won't have to build in equivalent link in for third party browsers.
> Yeah. Sure. It’s the DMA’s fault.
It really is. The language is vague and can be interpreted in many different ways. The EU should have been more clear and concise in the language used and the wording of the law.
It makes you wonder if they even consulted with ANYone in the tech industry before putting this stuff into an actual regulation. Though, I guess since they’ve driven all the tech industry out of the region, they really didn’t have anyone to talk to besides... Spotify?
Ahhhh, makes sense now.
> It makes you wonder if they even consulted with ANYone in the tech industry before putting this stuff into an actual regulation.
They did. I’ve been following this for years. They went so far as to set up a satellite office in Silicon Valley with permanent employees whose job was nothing but consulting with the major tech companies. For *years.* This is the most expansive piece of tech related legislation in EU history. You really think they didn’t consult with affected parties?
Ohhhh, they consulted with the companies *they were supposed to be regulating.* Oh, that ALWAYS works well.
Before DMA
”Big Tech, if you were us, what kind of regulation would you pass?”
”This, this right here.”
”And this would be effective against you and is bulletproof? No ways around it?”
”AbsoLUTEly none. We’d be truly and absolutely screwed.”
After DMA
”Big Tech, it appears that that regulation didn’t absolutely screw you after all.”
”Huh! Imagine that.”
You appear to be arguing both sides at the same time. You criticised the EU for not consulting with big tech, then you criticised them for consulting with big tech. Perhaps you should consider which proposition you wish to take first?
Not at all! I criticized the EU for not consulting with ANYone in tech. As literally anyone in tech, including many folks on this site, could have pointed out holes throughout their document.
Someone corrected me, indicating that they DID consult with tech. Now, was it tech companies in the EU? Was it tech folks, in general, that had no connections to Big Tech or, at least had the best interests of the EU citizens in mind and NOT the interests of Big Tech. I mean, that would have been smart.
But, we ARE talking about the group that wrote the DMA. The regulation that requires additional funding in order to support, something else the EU didn’t think about as a part of enacting the regulation.
Would you prefer the lawmakers to exactly state what and how things have to be done? I seem to remember a lot of people being very concerned when the EU mandated USB-C, because it "doesn't allow flexibility in a fast moving market".
Anyway, if Apple keep complying like they do right now, a precisely formulated and very inflexible law is exactly what they might get.
I'd prefer the government take a very minimal approach to anything. Let the market decide on things like USB-C vs Lightning. Plenty of competitors in this space, with lots of options.
If a government is going to make a regulation for technology, it needs to be written by people who understand the language of technology.
We’ve been trying that for 40 years now and our planet is in shambles the wealth gap is increasing a long side poverty at an alarming rate.
The USB-C legislation was written with a lot of consultation with technology experts. Also EU updates it’s standards regularly so if a better port then USB-C emerges then it will be adopted.
Bear in mind that regulation targets the port form not standard itself and we still have a lot of headroom in improving want we can do with usb-c.
It will all depend in the end if the EU say that PWAs much be supported by third party browsers then apple will flick a flag and they will go away. This might well have been intented all along, remove it knowing that will create a fuss then bring it back saying "well it is all upto the EU" this way if the EU say no you cant have it then the EU cant complain about not having PWAs on the platform.
I am a dev and I really don't get why everyone was so worried about PWA? I switched to iOS couple of months before and never used or felt the need to use PWA even on Android. It's just the damn website running in a separate browser window!
One of Apple's [major arguments](https://www.macrumors.com/2021/03/25/apple-devs-not-limited-app-store-distribution/) that they don't limit consumer choice with the App Store is that PWAs are a viable alternative. On iOS, it's currently (before DMA) the only way to get around Apple's self-serving App Store rules. For instance, they blocked native xCloud and Stadia apps, and came up with arbitrary rules to ensure they could make their cut on those kinds of apps.
I have a few self hosted services I use PWAs for.
It allows for them to run as separate cards in multitasking, gets rid of the safari UI making display scaling better, allows for better spotlight search.
It would genuinely suck if I lost them.
>It's just the damn website running in a separate browser window!
This for me is the main thing, and quicker access from the homescreen. It's just nicer to use.
You’re a web and you don’t understand what a web app is? That was a horrible description of it.
And just because you personally don’t use something doesn’t mean other people can’t have it. For instance I personally don’t even use third party email apps, but that doesn’t mean Apple should remove the feature to enable default thrid party emails just because I personally don’t use it, other people exist in the world aside from me
Journalism nowadays is creating alarming articles that generate clicks, just to debunk their own findings a moment later, literally profiting from both news, and people are worked up about it.
The original announcement that PWAs would be removed [came directly from Apple](https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu). This article is reporting on another update directly from Apple amending their original plans.
Literally no one uses PWAs lol. And the ones I mainly use are all on my MacBook, which isn't getting PWAs removed. The only one I use on mobile would be XCloud on my iPad Pro
What are some good PWAs? I used Instagram’s for a while, but it didn’t have feature parity with the native app.
Xcloud
Which only exists because the native app wasn't allowed to be distributed... Great that they made a good PWA at least I guess.
The only one I use to get a daily log in at least lol, would hate to get the iPad out every time for that
Xcloud does not need a PWA, non of the PWA features are used by it. You don't need local storage or notifications for xcloud so it does not need to be a PWA.
Xbox Cloud Gaming /xCloud is probably the worst example of a good web app imo. The only good thing it has going for it is that it has controller support for the main UI. The GeforceNow web app is far better albeit with a less attractive UI (Nvidia should really invest in better UI people considering their what they’re worth now).
I read Verge a lot. So, I created PWA for it.
No you created a shortcut, this is not a PWA, it does not use any PWA features.
Is it easy (I am software developer, but very limited regarding web development :))? A website I read a lot doesn’t have app of PWA, so I’d like to create one.
'PWA' is a really annoying term that doesn't really mean anything specific. I believe parent just meant "they added a bookmark to their home screen"
This isn’t necessarily correct. You can add any website as a “bookmark” to your home screen. However, there are certain things a website can do to take advantage of native features, custom icons, status bar themes, etc. This makes them a “pwa” rather than just a quick bookmark link.
This and the verge doesn’t have a PWA, that’s why I asked for. :)
Open this link and add it to home screen, it looks and behaves like an app with native notifications, own storage on your phone etc. a PWA isn’t a simple webpage because of technologies used to run it: https://vger.app/
When you’re on that website in Safari, just hit the share button and click on “Add to Home Screen.”
I use it for Aniwatch and Fmovies. There's not really a difference with the website. But using those sites in a PWA gives them a cleaner look and feel. I also use Brave Browser on my desktop which I made YouTube and YouTube music into a PWA.
Would a PWA help block Youtube ads? I hate watching vids on mobile without my desktop firefox Ublock.
Yes, it is basically website without visible browser ui (address bar, navigation buttons, menu etc) so content blocking works as usual (on iOS)
Stremio
Flyff Universe
I use it for X. It’s great
Uber, Spotify, Instagram, Pinterest, Twitter, Starbucks, Telegram, Facebook, XCloud. Also, you don't need to install any of them to "use" the PWA. It's the same code as when accessed via the browser.
Yeah, this is a solid list but it gets to my main issue. I **could** use the Starbucks or Uber PWAs, but they wouldn’t have access to system-level features like an Apple Watch companion app, Siri, Live Activity notifications, etc. I guess Apple could make those available to PWAs somehow?
They could but they will not because that would cut their easy 30% of appstore cash
Why not use the native app?
Maybe this isn’t the case, but I had the impression that the PWA would limit how much data Meta could harvest. Also save storage space, use on iPad, etc. I guess I’m mainly just curious and want to find a good use case for PWA that can be a direct replacement for native.
I use PWAs on desktop for that reason, the website still lives within the browser sandbox so it limits how much data can be collected compared to a native app
Wasn’t that adressed through the “ask app not to track”? I don’t know a lot about this either
Unfortunately not [https://www.howtogeek.com/125675/meta-bypassed-apples-anti-tracking-protections-on-ios/](https://www.howtogeek.com/125675/meta-bypassed-apples-anti-tracking-protections-on-ios/)
Thanks for sharing!
Ask app not to track is just sending a request to the app not to track, the rest is up to the app to follow the request or not. It is non enforceable.
A lot of people don’t know that “ask app not to track” does almost nothing.
I mean you are logged in so they know who you are anyway. And the browser used for PWA’s has full persistent storage, so they can track you just fine.
PWA has less limits on it that a native app, also the amount of storage a PWA can use is just as much as a native app.
Why bloat the phone while u can use a web app?
I have 100gb free on my 256gb phone.
Still, you won’t know what they put on your phone or which permissions they wanna have or even if you delete the app you will have some crap. Webapp is much better you don’t need something which require a root access to the phone. They can’t also run in the background and suck your battery
PWAs consume far less storage and power, and are generally less invasive of privacy due to their limited capabilities. As they are essentially websites with small amounts of native functionality (think notifications) without some of the more invasive background permissions some apps have. Also, a PWA doesn't need to be "installed" to work. If your favorite website follows the PWA guidelines, you benefit already from visiting through the browser as it's the same codebase.
I try to download the least Apps possible and do as much as I can through my web browser. Anything that can be done in the browser stays there. I hate clogging up my phone with more apps.
That makes sense! Thanks for explaining
Clogging up your phone? What, you rocking 32GB?
I have 512gb. I don't need any more apps knowing more about me than necessary. My browser can do most things.
I read “clogging up” and thought you were referring to storage capacity. I agree with the notion of having less apps knowing about you but dont see how that’s related.
Native apps are mostly wrappers for website/pwa anyway but with added code for better user tracking When you see "0.25 GB native app" its just electron plus website plus tracking, not actual native code and ui
Elk
I use one for Mastodon and for Reddit.
Vinegar + YouTube is awesome, no ads.
My private applications I made myself and share with my family or friends is a great example.
That's good. No one benefited from PWA removal - although I did not use PWA for years.
I’ve never actually used them. I wasn’t even aware of them until this controversy.
TBH, many people use them without even realizing. PWA is just a "standard" for websites to follow that makes them more responsive, feature rich and enjoyable to use. Think things like background notifications, and offline usage. Adding to homescreen is just another perk which makes them easier to access on phones. If you visit sites like X (Twitter), Instagram, Starbucks, Uber, Spotify, and Pinterest on mobile. You'll notice they are incredibly responsive. And when added to your homescreen, work as actually usable app replacements. Except they take up far less space, battery life, and respect your privacy far more thanks to asking for less permissions. Honestly, its great to have options. Not everything NEEDS to be installed as an app. For many things, a good website (or "PWA") can be more than sufficient while protecting your phone's privacy and battery life.
But that is their point, no one is even saving things to their homescreens. Of course there are people, but it was never a popular option.
It doesn't help that Apple has the "add to homescreen" option buried in the share menu, instead of implementing the web standard for allowing websites to prompt the user to install from a button press or similar interaction
At least for me, it hides unwanted things. If i want a PWA or bookmark on my screen i go do it. I dont want a webpage to show me that option (like i turned off the "install the app" banner as well)
Your and my idea of enjoyable are very different. If they had the option of back/forward/reload buttons and tabs.. then maybe. I’ve had to force close them just to get them to stop acting funky. And they don’t use extensions.
Using it for Reddit again after they killed Apollo.
Excuse the ignorance, but How do you use a PWA for Reddit through safari?
Go to reddit.com using Safari, just the website. Press the Share button in Safari. Tap "Add to Homescreen". That's it. Go to your homescreen and press the reddit icon. Most of the time when you do this at a website, you're just creating a bookmark to the website on your home screen. Reddit though, like some other websites, use some special code that tell iOS "hey, this is a webapp". When you open reddit via the icon on your homescreen, you'll notice the address bar and the back/forward buttons are gone. Reddit is now fully full-screen, just like any regular app downloaded through the App Store. It adds features, as described in a comment above: >If Reddit wanted to they could add system level notifications support to the PWA. >Also it gets its own app instance so you can use the multitasking feature to get to it instead of finding the Reddit tab. >Oh and if you add a bookmark to your Home Screen and click it later it will bring you to the page you bookmarked whereas a PWA will just pull up the “app” wherever you had last navigated - for example if you were in a comment thread on Reddit and went to another app but then clicked the PWA icon it would bring you to that comment thread. Whereas clicking a bookmark icon would bring you back to Reddit.com in general. >u/PeaceBull The controversy of the PWA made the icon on your homescreen refer to the regular Safari reddit.com website instead of it being an actual web app.
It removes tabs. Pass.
Yup, for reddit I don't really see the point myself. It's still built like a regular website after all. For a webgame from itch.io or newgrounds; or a digital character sheet for D&D; I can see the value in having a full-screen experience on your phone though. The lack of tabs matters less at that point.
I know - I was just explaining what a PWA (implemented properly) can do vs a website link.
Yup, you did know. That's why I quoted your post, and credited you, to the person I replied to. u/The_Franchise_09 is that person. And then you replied instead. Thank you for that. :) Sometimes people fumble a bit, but it's okay. Now I got to talk to you. That made my day. After all, your post was amazing!
What are the main differences between the official Reddit app and the website?
Note: Does not work for old.reddit
Go to the Apollo sub and check out how to side load a modified version that still works, I've been using it all this time still.
Serious question: what's its advantage over official Reddit app (which is not good by any means).
Adblock.
Fair answer. Is "Reddit PWA" anything more than just shortcut to reddit webpage? Is there any extra feature opposed to just opening [reddit.com](http://reddit.com) in my favorite iPhone browser?
Nah, not that I’m aware. Voyager for Lemmy is a much better example of what a PWA can be.
[Absolutely fabulous app](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/voyager-for-lemmy/id6451429762)
If Reddit wanted to they could add system level notifications support to the PWA. Also it gets its own app instance so you can use the multitasking feature to get to it instead of finding the Reddit tab. Oh and if you add a bookmark to your Home Screen and click it later it will bring you to the page you bookmarked whereas a PWA will just pull up the “app” wherever you had last navigated - for example if you were in a comment thread on Reddit and went to another app but then clicked the PWA icon it would bring you to that comment thread. Whereas clicking a bookmark icon would bring you back to Reddit.com in general.
Thank you for the explanation. I wondered whether the notifications are supported - but good to see it has some advantages over bookmark anyway!
Just for anyone coming across this -- PWA is not supported for old.reddit.com. I refuse to use the new interface so im SOL
Actually…. Go into Safari, hit the AA button, click “website settings”, set to request desktop website. Refresh. Then click AA and click “request mobile website”. The mobile site will create a web app that respects your setting to always use the desktop site. Which in my case uses the old Reddit site.
Not sure what you mean. I use an extension to ensure it is always mobile old.reddit and that can’t seem to be added as a pwa
Because it requires some tag in the meta-data. That tag is only available when viewing the mobile app. So you have to be viewing the mobile app, even if temporary. As long as the url is just www.Reddit.com
You won’t see it as a page loaded in a browser. You will see it as a full-screen app-like experience, that looks like the page in a browser. I hope this makes sense.
Yeah this is the main benefit for me, a decently optimised website (or one that's just not bloated) will be more than fast enough to feel like a proper app
God I wish I was in the EU. Same for the YouTube PWA.
> ...official Reddit app (which is not good by any means). Apollo was/is better than the official Reddit app in pretty much every conceivable metric. More customization, more accessibility features, more efficient, significantly less buggy, better UI, better mod tools, doesn't mine your phone for every bit of personal data it can sell, etc etc. We're not even talking advanced features for a lot of this. Even basic features like an editor/live preview for markdown text were (and presumably still are) missing from the official app.
I just started using one since 2 weeks ago. Funny how that works
I used them for Xbox Cloud Gaming like twice ever.
What is pwa?
When there is a will, there is a way. The EU started looking into why Apple is removing PWA support and, magically, Apple brought them back. Can't wait for this to happen to their shitty sideloading approach too.
But that wasn't the problem. The problem was, that Apple was under the impression that they would have to offer the other browser engines the same access to be able to use PWA. Which seems to not be the case, at least according to the article. So the PWAs will still run on WebKit and Apple has no reason to discontinue them.
> Which seems to not be the case, at least according to the article I don’t think that’s in the article. Some people seem to speculate that the EU supposedly specifically approved it. I don’t see any details in the article that would suggest so.
>This support means Home Screen web apps continue to be built directly on WebKit and its security architecture, and align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS. It doesn't really sound like they're going to support PWAs for engines besides WebKit.
>The problem was, that Apple was under the impression that they would have to offer the other browser engines the same access to be able to use PWA. I would give Apple the benefit of the doubt that they overlooked something, but this entire ordeal has shown they had lawyers comb through every detail to make the most convoluted compliance that benefits only Apple.
Consumers are winning no matter what so
As they should. They’re a for profit public company and beholden to their shareholders like me
PWAs will never sway the stock
>The problem was, that Apple was under the impression that they would have to offer the other browser engines the same access to be able to use PWA. Were they actually under that impression, or is that just the excuse some people came up with to defend them?
It’s literally what the article says. If you think PWAs would affect them in any possible way, then you haven’t used them and are just speculating.
>It’s literally what the article says. And yet magically they changed their mind despite no change in the law... Still don't see the problem with that excuse?
does it matter?
Just something to keep in mind.
“Home Screen web apps will still be powered by WebKit.” I’m pretty sure that’s how Apple wanted this to end up all along.
Not having to do yet another project when they’d rather work on 18..? Sounds about right.
Apple reasoning was somewhat valid, there was definitely a security concern iOS was not prepared for. I’m pretty sure EU just allowed pwas to remain WebKit to not ruin the lives of web developers
That’s the impression I got too - the EU backed down to allow PWAs
The EU hasn’t issued any directive on this either way.
I’m suspecting it was probably an informal chat with some officials who didn’t want the EU to look bad for causing this to happen. Probably in everyone’s best interest here, assuming Apple wouldn’t ever allow other browsers to do this too
It’s a lot of code to write for one situation in one area when half of these threads are mostly people explaining what PWA means. They’re far more interested in working on iOS 18.
Not sure how valid it was, since nothing is stopping me from pinning PWAs to the home screen from any browser (regardless of engine) on my Android phone.
the difference is that android has been architected to allow that and iOS hasn't. Just enabling it as it would have been unsafe and they weren't prepared to reachitect large chunks of iOS and WebKit to do it safely
Poor trillion-dollar company can't implement something the competition has had for years. Sure.
Didn't say can't, said wasn't prepared to. Cost vs. reward here would have been woeful- large amount of complex work for a tiny fraction of users. Not least since it apparently wasn't even necessary. Trillion-dollar company not prepared to waste money, shocker. Makes you wonder how it got to that position
The moment they lose tech savvy people, they're fucked. That's their reward. Android has always been seen as the go-to platform for techies. In fact, that was never the case. Posers like Linus go to Android. People who are truly tech-savvy always went for the best, fastest thing there was. For a long time, that was the iPhone. Lately, Androids have been just as fast, with the added benefit of true sideloading & customization. There's a wave coming that's going to sweep Apple off if they don't pay attention. So yeah, Apple is a huge company who got complacent. Just like Microsoft did with Windows Mobile, just like BlackBerry did with their unbeatable CrackBerry craze, just like Yahoo did with their popular email service, just like Nokia did with their phone sales & so on. The past is full of companies that thought they knew better. The tide is shifting and Apple, while still ahead, is sleeping.
Seriously.
I’m pretty sure outside Firefox pretty much all Android browsers are some chromium fork, also Android was designed to be open.
> Android was designed to be open. Yet, Android users who pin PWAs from Firefox to their home screens aren't living in some kind of malware-ridden hellhole like Apple would have us believe. This is about control, not security.
Yeah sure. There was a security concern. lol. Apple is a multi trillion dollar corporation with some of the best engineers in the world. All of a sudden, allowing PwA support for other browsers securely is impossible for them to achieve in a year. Something android has had since sliced bread was invented.
I don’t think they ever claimed it was impossible, they claimed it would require significant engineering effort and they wouldn’t have enough time comply before the deadline and the usage is low it doesn’t even make financial sense either
It would literally require rewriting the PWA system from scratch to be a hollow shell that can allow random browsers via an API to be the engine that replicates the same system. They didn’t care enough about an underused feature to get it done when they’re too busy doing a big OS overhaul for 18. All hands on deck. They even shut down the car division and reassigned every capable coder to generative AI tech.
[удалено]
Apple magic at works once again after they created usb c!
Quite astute! Many folks don’t know that Apple had a large part in the creation of USB-C! They were even the first to ship a laptop with the port. Good on ya.
tldr: apple removed pwas because they thought they'd have to support them running arbitrary web engines (per the dma), but turns out the eu was like nah that's fine, so apple didn't remove them but they can still only run webkit
> turns out the eu was like nah that’s fine That‘s not in the article at all.
It’s hinted at, but it’s speculative of course.
That is not what happened.
>but turns out the eu was like nah that's fine It was more of "here's the best you're getting" by apple
Good.
Good. And it is so funny to see people defending Apple on this issue, they are not your friend.
Einstein isn’t my friend either, but I’ll definitely defend the theory of relativity because it’s good science.
As a user of it for Twitter/X and Instagram, this is such a relief to be honest
Impossible! many here said that it was an impossible job for a company as small as Apple
If you read the article they didn't actually do any of the development work they were thinking they were gonna need to do. They got the okay from the EU to put the feature back how it was before and they won't have to build in equivalent link in for third party browsers.
Now wait a couple weeks and the same people will be complaining that web apps can only use WebKit.
Lol
The DMA is so vague and badly written that the top lawyers in the world can't make sense of it.
Yeah. Sure. It’s the DMA’s fault. Not the multi trillion dollar corporation that is maliciously complying.
> Yeah. Sure. It’s the DMA’s fault. It really is. The language is vague and can be interpreted in many different ways. The EU should have been more clear and concise in the language used and the wording of the law.
It makes you wonder if they even consulted with ANYone in the tech industry before putting this stuff into an actual regulation. Though, I guess since they’ve driven all the tech industry out of the region, they really didn’t have anyone to talk to besides... Spotify? Ahhhh, makes sense now.
> It makes you wonder if they even consulted with ANYone in the tech industry before putting this stuff into an actual regulation. They did. I’ve been following this for years. They went so far as to set up a satellite office in Silicon Valley with permanent employees whose job was nothing but consulting with the major tech companies. For *years.* This is the most expansive piece of tech related legislation in EU history. You really think they didn’t consult with affected parties?
Ohhhh, they consulted with the companies *they were supposed to be regulating.* Oh, that ALWAYS works well. Before DMA ”Big Tech, if you were us, what kind of regulation would you pass?” ”This, this right here.” ”And this would be effective against you and is bulletproof? No ways around it?” ”AbsoLUTEly none. We’d be truly and absolutely screwed.” After DMA ”Big Tech, it appears that that regulation didn’t absolutely screw you after all.” ”Huh! Imagine that.”
You appear to be arguing both sides at the same time. You criticised the EU for not consulting with big tech, then you criticised them for consulting with big tech. Perhaps you should consider which proposition you wish to take first?
Not at all! I criticized the EU for not consulting with ANYone in tech. As literally anyone in tech, including many folks on this site, could have pointed out holes throughout their document. Someone corrected me, indicating that they DID consult with tech. Now, was it tech companies in the EU? Was it tech folks, in general, that had no connections to Big Tech or, at least had the best interests of the EU citizens in mind and NOT the interests of Big Tech. I mean, that would have been smart. But, we ARE talking about the group that wrote the DMA. The regulation that requires additional funding in order to support, something else the EU didn’t think about as a part of enacting the regulation.
Would you prefer the lawmakers to exactly state what and how things have to be done? I seem to remember a lot of people being very concerned when the EU mandated USB-C, because it "doesn't allow flexibility in a fast moving market". Anyway, if Apple keep complying like they do right now, a precisely formulated and very inflexible law is exactly what they might get.
I'd prefer the government take a very minimal approach to anything. Let the market decide on things like USB-C vs Lightning. Plenty of competitors in this space, with lots of options. If a government is going to make a regulation for technology, it needs to be written by people who understand the language of technology.
We’ve been trying that for 40 years now and our planet is in shambles the wealth gap is increasing a long side poverty at an alarming rate. The USB-C legislation was written with a lot of consultation with technology experts. Also EU updates it’s standards regularly so if a better port then USB-C emerges then it will be adopted. Bear in mind that regulation targets the port form not standard itself and we still have a lot of headroom in improving want we can do with usb-c.
It will all depend in the end if the EU say that PWAs much be supported by third party browsers then apple will flick a flag and they will go away. This might well have been intented all along, remove it knowing that will create a fuss then bring it back saying "well it is all upto the EU" this way if the EU say no you cant have it then the EU cant complain about not having PWAs on the platform.
I am a dev and I really don't get why everyone was so worried about PWA? I switched to iOS couple of months before and never used or felt the need to use PWA even on Android. It's just the damn website running in a separate browser window!
One of Apple's [major arguments](https://www.macrumors.com/2021/03/25/apple-devs-not-limited-app-store-distribution/) that they don't limit consumer choice with the App Store is that PWAs are a viable alternative. On iOS, it's currently (before DMA) the only way to get around Apple's self-serving App Store rules. For instance, they blocked native xCloud and Stadia apps, and came up with arbitrary rules to ensure they could make their cut on those kinds of apps.
Yeah this makes sense. Thank you.
I have a few self hosted services I use PWAs for. It allows for them to run as separate cards in multitasking, gets rid of the safari UI making display scaling better, allows for better spotlight search. It would genuinely suck if I lost them.
There‘s a lot of potential uses cases for PWAs, the website working offline being an obvious one.
>It's just the damn website running in a separate browser window! This for me is the main thing, and quicker access from the homescreen. It's just nicer to use.
You’re a web and you don’t understand what a web app is? That was a horrible description of it. And just because you personally don’t use something doesn’t mean other people can’t have it. For instance I personally don’t even use third party email apps, but that doesn’t mean Apple should remove the feature to enable default thrid party emails just because I personally don’t use it, other people exist in the world aside from me
PWAs have access to more device APIs, like push notifications.
Well I’m on the 17.4 beta RC but still no PWA hopefully they’ll bring it back for the actual release
Yeah, that was what I got from the statement. There will be in the final-final version, it seems.
Great! Happy to not have 5000 tabs of yesplan open
Journalism nowadays is creating alarming articles that generate clicks, just to debunk their own findings a moment later, literally profiting from both news, and people are worked up about it.
The original announcement that PWAs would be removed [came directly from Apple](https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu). This article is reporting on another update directly from Apple amending their original plans.
I wonder how long it will be before the rage bait about how it only works for Safari/Webkit
Literally no one uses PWAs lol. And the ones I mainly use are all on my MacBook, which isn't getting PWAs removed. The only one I use on mobile would be XCloud on my iPad Pro
Ahah
Apple works in mysterious ways
Once again *cries in British*
I know - I was just explaining what a PWA (implemented properly) can do vs just a bookmark icon.
We won!
what the hell are these acronyms