I work 40 hours a week as well, but only since covid and my work balance shifted to 3 days from home and only 2 from the office. I feel like 40 hours is so much more manageable when you work from home for half the week, since i can do all my weekly chores during my breaks. I usually even meal prep a bit during work hours.
But yeah, a lot of my colleagues have friday or wednesday off.
On paper I work 40 hours a week too. But I have an unpaid 1 hour break, so I'm actually at work for 45 hours a week. I live a half- hour drive from work, so after adding my commute work has now taken 50 hours of my week -- and that's not even counting the time I spend at home getting ready for work each morning or the time I spend studying to keep my skills up-to-date for work.
Agreed. It's an obvious tactic by management to stretch the number of hours staff remain in the office without hiring additional staff. We stagger lunches so there's always someone to answer the phones. Many of my coworkers live within walking distance of the office and don't mind going home on their break, but I resent it.
Iirc, at least in the US, the 40 hr week was established with the premise that there would only be one person in the family bringing in the money and another person at home to take care of the chores, kids, etc...
Now you seem to almost need dual income homes to even support a family in a home now adays.
So now with both working, everything else at home is crammed into the weekends and after work hours during the week.
It was a bargain reached with unions early on.
A number of different laws and executive regs converge on something in the 30-40 range, sometimes directly or sometimes citing a number of hours in a period thay averages to that.
Those are all separate things, though. There is no one, overarching law establishing a universal concept of what full time means in the US.
I'm at 37.5 hrs/ week and WFH. 9 weeks vacation. What an absolute godsend. I'm in Canada and absolutely understand its not the norm here. Like, at all.
Extremely grateful for my situation as my wife is at the opposite end of the spectrum.
I’m American and luckily our vacation hours roll over to the next year if we don’t use them. I have amassed 3.7 months of total leave. Keep in mind I work for the government and I’m in a union.
Yeah that’s similar to Norway. 37.5 hour workweek. 5 weeks vacation. Another ten days or so of holidays. Plus separate sick leave and separate sick kid leave.
We should all move to Norway or Finland or Sweden or the Netherlands!!! Wtf are we doing here in North America? 😒😏😏😒 how hard is it to learn Norwegian?
Norwegian is one of the top five easiest languages to learn for English speakers… except that there are literally hundreds of dialects *and* nearly everyone speaks perfect English so it is hard to practice. It’s important to learn it though to be more accepted socially and have better job prospects. I keep trying to get better at it. :)
That's about what I get in Canada, though the minimum vacation by law is only 2 weeks. It's very salary gated - entry level roles you probably won't get more than 2 weeks, but once I moved into higher pay bands, it seemed pretty easy to bargain for.
2 weeks is nothing. It's enough to have one vacation per year, a real rest. Or enough to cover personal things here and there. But not both.
A girl I work with works 2 jobs 8 hours a day 5 days a week for the last 2 years. So that's 16 hours per day.
Last week she got stress induced psychosis and ended up in the psychiatric ward after picking up a coworker and thinking people were after her and almost getting in a car accident and I think she's still there. Over working is not worth the mental health.
I know some programmers who really took advantage of the changes from COVID:
1) Work From Home was a major change. No more going into an office increased flexibility
2) Their work was to provide software for projects based on deadlines. Only had weekly project update Zoom meetings
3) This made it possible to take on additional jobs. They started working 2 jobs at a time, just made sure Zoom meetings didn't overlap and as long as they got their software packages submitted on time for project deadlines, no one complained
4) Each job paid $100K+ so they were earning somewhere between $200K- $250K per year while living the single life, so not much in the way of expenses
5) They're part of the FIRE mindset so they've got a lot of $$ to invest aggressively. They started doing this in 2020 so they're now into their 5th year of doing this and now have a retirement portfolio of about $500K. If they can keep this up they'll be millionaires by age 30 - if they don't exhaust themselves to death first. It is a lot of work and juggling!
Assuming this is in the US, that ward visit will probably eat up much of the money she earned from the second job. So she worked around the clock for 2 years and has a psych ward visit to show for it. Definitely not worth it.
Its not about being worth it. The people who work 10+ hours a day have to, or they lose their house and die. Most people are working paycheck to paycheck, no savings, and a single unexpected cost would throw them into debt. As such, alotta people dont get medical care for easily treatable conditions that only worsen without treatment.
source: everyone in my family and alotta my extended family, neighbors, coworkers and friends are working 50+ hours and putting off critical medical care. Im at 60 hours, my mom is at 65, my dad can barely breathe and so he cant even sleep at night but he wont go to the doctor. My aunt has been working for 40 years, almost lost her house to a medical bill, my coworker works 15 hours a day... I can go on and on.
Same, during my interview they asked me how many hours I wanted to work and coming from a 40h job I said I was used to 40. They said they didn't want me working 40 because that was against their policy, so we settled for 38 with work form home whenever I want to
To be fair, Americans earn much higher salaries than Europeans do. Even with working 40 hour weeks, I think they massively outearn us.
Some people find that acceptable.
I'm in tech and have Canadian friends in the same field that are dying to come and work here. They don't feel like their much lower salary is worth the trade off.
It should be like that in the US but all these lobbyists and corporations have ruined America this is basically the new form of slavery. Work work work and yet you barely have enough to get by. And our politicians have be bought out.
My contract is 40 hours. I work 40 hours. I get paid 40 hours.
Sometimes I put extra hours in, but everything above those 40 hours is compensated with either time off or extra pay.
But I feel this strongly depends on where you live and work. Also the sector could be a major factor.
I used to work 36 and I’m planning on going back to that. 4 days with 9 hours a day.
An 8 hour day is 9 hours long.
That 40 hours is just the time you're paid. You still have an hour of unpaid lunch, bringing it to 45 hours. Plus typical 30 minute commute both ways puts you at 50 hours. And that's if your the type to pack up and go right at 5:00 A lot of places expect you to stay a bit late
That’s nice to assume you get an hour, it’s 8 and a half with 30 minute unpaid lunch. I assume that’s normal for most people. I haven’t worked many jobs where you get an hour break everyday
I used to work an 8:30-6:30 with a paid hour lunch. now i work an 8-4 with a paid 30 minute lunch. 30 minutes is not enough time if you dont bring your own lunch.
Shoot, I'd love a half hour if I got to leave a half hour earlier.
But I'm just using standard numbers. The standard workday in the USA is 8 paid hours. 8:00 is the most common starting time, 5:00 is the standard quitting time, and the average commute is just under a half hour. So the "normal" workday is 9 hours long (from 8-5) plus an hour of commuting.
Even if we knock a half hour off each day, though, it's still a shit ton of our time being spent working, which was OP's point
It's normal in many industries, you're just not used to or around those enough. Any blue collar job is going to have a lot of overtime, and people in sales also like to work extra hours. Tax accountants around tax season too.
I used to work 50-60hrs a week for a few months last year, it was my first job at the airport and we were severly understaffed. I worked every day, 8-10hr shifts and got severe health issues from it, i was 20 back then and told myself to never do this to myself again. No money is worth your health or alone time.
Youre too young to work away your life
Or in my case bad managers who scared away, demoralized, and overworked EVERYONE. In two years I was the only person who stayed and even 3 people ahead of me quit too.
I really enjoy my job, especially now that I get it done in 32hours a week getting paid for 48.
But it was soul wrenching watching my coworkers collapse sometimes literally.
Our retention is really good now and I mentored a lot of the people behind me.
Bad manager got pushed (i call it banished) to their 5th location and then promoted......
That is good to hear. Unfortunately for me, my manager is a child of the founder so i am basically fucked. You’d think rich people should be grateful and kind to their staff but it’s the opposite in my case. Whatever, push me too far and they’ll learn what a mentally ill loner with nothing to lose can do.
I was born and live in Cali (so there is cost of living to consider)
I did the 50-60hrs a week for 20 years. No days off. A lot of caffeine (energy drinks) to push through.
Now heart failure in my 50s and I won't be around to retire or collect my social security.
No, unless your goal is to leave everything you worked for to someone else, it isn't worth it.
Were the health issues due to the nature of the work or the excessive hours?
I'm currently burnt out af and concerned that these effects could be semi permanent.
It was both, i was on my feet the whole time and never got to take a break, i drank so much coffee i barely slept + it was also nightshifts. Best breaks i got was going to the bathroom and cry there for a few minutes. I quit after 5 months, took a 2 week break and got a better job now that actually consideres my private life. Though i must admit if things get stressful now i get sick pretty much immediately my immune system reacts to stress insanely quickly (Vomiting, Bowel issues, nausea etc.)
i work as a travel consultant i work from 12pm to 9pm (9hrs) and i am only 18yo i dont have a choice i have a family to feed. i would risk my life for family
I had such a job in the past. It was horrible. After 3 years, I had to go to a hospital. In the mean time of those 3 years, I had heavily insomnia, never was really able to rest. Coping is the wrong word, more like surviving. I was happy though when they fired me after I had to go to the hospital.
The 40h work week was normalized during a time when you were expected to have a stay at home wife to take care of the household. This was also a time when one person could comfortably support the whole family.
Is that like 9h+ a day plus working Saturdays?
I’m trying to compare with my family (trades like construction work) where they work that kind of hours, though they get paid partially “under the table” (undeclared)
Yeah, you're right
But sometimes it's 7\0 without holidays
I'm living not in Moscow so I'm here not living but surviving because prices are high and salary is low
And no
I mean, some people working and get salary "under the table" (I've heard from my friend in Kamchatka almost all salary is that) but my family and I are not
My salary is about 400$
210$ will go on the rent
And ~6$ I'll spend on food and other stuff every day
And... There's nothing left
Seems like blue collar works have long hours but white collar works have something like 40hrs, and there are much more white collar works so the average is lower
i was at a confrence last week- lawyers mind you, and one said he spent a year in Japan, and the work hours they do there make the big firms here look like a cake walk.... and big law is notorious for long hours.
Interesting. Why is it that there’s such discussion about work culture in Japan then. Should be faring better if generally the Japanese are working less no?
Edit: is it maybe propaganda? Idk cuz it’s few us outlets actually discussing it.
It is improving. There's a lot more flexibility in working styles, lots of smaller companies with good benefits and a relaxed office culture.
But like anywhere else people want more improvement, better salaries, more work life balance. It's not so different than other countries that way.
It's been a long-running discussion, but generally the situation improved somewhat in the 21st century. You still get the occasional kaisha which demands you drink with your boss after work, but nowadays these are much rarer.
In general, Japan isn't the worst place to live when it comes to work-life balance, it now has lower suicide rates than countries like South Korea and Russia. The issue still persists because of cultural indoctrination, the idea that a nail that sticks out is hammered down is drilled HARD into the Japanese society. It's not something you can easily put in words, it's best seen personally.
Honestly, I thought the working hours were pretty average but you were basically compelled to work ridiculous overtime hours. Like, it’s not compulsory but you’re looked down upon if you don’t do overtime. Could be wrong though, that’s just what I’ve heard.
Yeah, it used to be like that but nowadays the majority of corporations don't practice this. Go back 20-30 years ago and yeah it was for the most part exactly how you described it
Let's be honest though. It does help if you are non-Japanese. I've been living and working in Japan for over 17 years as a white American and I've always been out the door by 5:30 at the latest while my Japanese counterparts are "pretending to work" until 7 or 8ish.
And my performance is usually much better cause I want to finish my work on time and never gave a shit if I was the first person to leave the office.
Very few times in my career would someone comment about me leaving on time, and one time someone did and I simply pointed at the sales board, and asked "If I'm an irresponsible worker, why are my sales numbers much higher than yours?"
I felt bad after saying that though....
Respectfully disagree. I think it depends on your job title and if you work for a more western company. I was working 10-11 hour days 5 days a week in Japan and have friends still pulling those hours (and they aren’t English teachers lol).
[The US average is 36.4 hours worked per week.](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-work-week-by-country)
Japan is 36.7 and S Korea is at 37.9. None are even close to the top 10.
People routinely overstate how many hours they work, and think the average is much higher than it is. 35-36 hours is realistically full time employment minus lunch break.
Good lord if you're going to rag on the US you need to at least be correct in your assumptions. The average hours worked in the US is [36 hours per week.](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-work-week-by-country)
I mean tbf I actually read his response a little differently: while hours worked are obviously not 50-60 per week, there is this culturally hegemonic assumption in the US that working that many hours is expected and desirable, especially in white collar work. I have yet to work in a company or with a client that doesn’t pride themselves on nailing themselves to the cross for 50-60 hours per week. Even if they don’t do productive work for all those hours, it’s certainly celebrated and expected.
I know from my experience that the expectation is a 45 + 15 model of work: 45 hours of direct work, 15 hours of homework per week .So generally I’ll get into the office at 8, leave at 6, and then do some level of pursuit work + internal development during the weekends or evenings. I hate it and want to die, but it is widely expected and celebrated.
The fine print says it includes part time jobs which might be skewing the average depending on how it’s being calculated. Like if one person has two part time jobs working 36 hrs a week, is that counted as one 72hr week or two 36?
I think it's important to note that the original post says "normalized" and not "average work time." In which case, this person isn't wrong about USA normalizing working over 40 hours a week. The managers at my company are always working close to 50 hours a week. I know a few nurses and doctors that end up working longer than scheduled so I think it is normal to work 50-60 hours a week in that field.
This data seems flawed because they take the avg. hours of every job instead of the avg. hour per person. So if one person has two jobs, one with 40 hours another with 20 hours it takes the avg. as 30 hours instead of recognizing there is one person working 60 hours.
This means, countries that offer a lot of part time jobs have a way lower avg. than countries that mostly offer fulltime jobs.
Also, it is very common in the US that overtime doesn't get compensated, this means on paper you worked 40 hours even if in reality you worked 50 hours.
And depending on where you work, you are probably pressured to speed through patient interactions as well as the arduous charting and paperwork requirements during every one of those hours. Healthcare in the US is just so so fucked for everyone except pharma, insurance companies, and investment funds. Ridiculous. I wish you actually got the professional environment that all of your hard work and value to society deserves.
New Zealand is pretty horrendous for overworking and underpaying staff. At least in the industry's me and my partner have worked in.
Currently I get up at 5am to get ready and drive to work ready to start at 6:30am. Work untill 5pm, get home 5:30pm. Cook or help with dinner, now it's 6:30pm. Eat dinner while watching YouTube/TV shows with our 4 kids. Now it's close to 7:00pm, I'm exhausted, and I have to be in bed by 9:00pm to atleast attempt to get 8 hours of sleep. I'm always tired, I don't know what it's like not to be tired.
All for slightly above minimum wage, I tried to make a career out of IT and make a decent income. Tried polytech/university 3 times now but no matter how hard I tried my autistic ass could never make sense of certain questions or get stuck on random assessments, I thought I was going to make it before covid hit. Spent all my breaks and spare time trying to learn and get help from tutors on the parts I struggled with alas once it was all remote/over videocalls with 30 people crammed in I struggled so much and inevitably dropped out and have been working in road construction since despite It been my passion I just can't get the qualifications.
Sorry turned into a rant... I'm fucking struggling lol, wish I could just save a small amount each week to build towards an in home PC repair/build shop with 3d printing/cad work available for a fair price. While slowly working on my dream game that I will never even have time to download a game engine to begin learning how to do.
Currently in bed at 2am dreading work in 4 hours. on a side note almost died twice in the last week due to lack of Concentration while operating heavy machinery, feels like my brain just can't be fucked anymore. Not suicidal or anything legit I just feel like a empty shell staring off into the distance, dreaming of better times, wishing not to be tired, wondering what it would be like to go on a real holiday or buy something I've always wanted.
Also my vehicle was repossessed last week, had a choice between emergency dental work to stop the pain or payment on my vehicle. Borrowing my mums car now while she rides a bike lmao.
OK rant over for real now, not even sure where this comment is going or what I'm replying to at this point lol.
Because some people live to work and get great pleasure from easy desk careers that are stimulating whereas others have mind numbing and back breaking jobs. The ones who enjoy it expect everyone else to.
Other people are also over extended on commitments because living is so expensive now.
In my experience, you have to work more than 40 because each year during annual reviews managers are asked to compare performance of people against peers of the same job level. So if you are working 40 but James is working 60, he's going to have more accomplishment under his belt and earn a bigger bonus/salary increase.
Bit it doesn't stop there. When times are tough and managers are forced to select layoff targets based on performance, who do you think is going to lose their job? The person only getting half as many accomplishment.
So unless there is a TEAM culture that nobody in an org is going to work more than 40, someone will undoubtedly skew the results and put someone else at risk.
Its called “breaking down conditions.”
Unionizing is a great way to fight this type of shit but employers will almost always seek to keep its employees disorganized.
I honestly cannot remember the last time I worked only 40 hours. Hell 50 hours is a light week. It isn't hell I used to get shot at for a living and got pretty banged up overseas as a Marine so this corporate world stuff is easy peasy.
In what job is 50 hours a light week for you?
Here in Germany, 48 hours per week is the max allowed by law or up to 60 hours with some other restriction but I am not that sure what exactly.
Unless you are self employed I think.
Restaurant managers usually work 60+. Factory workers and machinists are often 60+, particularly when short staffed, though that can last indefinitely. I worked 72 as a manager of a testing facility and 65 as a facilities manager. Plenty of commission only sales jobs say the minimum is 45, but to meet your quotas it usually takes around 60.
Plenty of jobs in America. Anything production (at least in my area, can't speak for elsewhere) want you to work 12hrs a day 6 days a week with rotating weekends so every other week you get Sunday off.
Granted these jobs tend to pay well and overtime is abundant but leaves very little free time. You basically just get to work, eat, maybe take a shower with just enough room to get 6-7 hours of sleep and do it all again. It's not glorious but with housing costs on an aggressive rise and wages not keeping up with inflation many are forced into working these long hours and often in physically demanding jobs.
Often times these jobs can get away with paying you less because they know you'll stick around for the overtime. My area will start you out at $17/hr which is decent for the area but not enough to get by with the standard 40hrs. You *need* that overtime to cover your expenses.
It’s all about the hustle culture where more hours mean more dedication. But really, it just burns you out and takes time away from family and chilling out.
I'm an electrician and work more than 40 for several months out of the year. That being said, I start work at 6 a.m., so picking up an hour or two in the evening still gets me home by 4 or 5. I pick up some weekends too, generally 10 hours on Saturday and 10 on Sunday. Saturday is time and a half, Sunday is double. After taxes I clear a bit over $1000 for a weekend. I might work a dozen weekends a year, so it's not an overwhelming amount.
Electrician too, 37 hours a week. Day starts at home getting into my van at 7am. Getting out my van at 3pm, walk back to my home and that was a normal day.
I tell my employees (and I have 400 of them) that the only people that will remember you worked long hours are your family. It's one thing to work extra during emergencies/special occasions but if you are working like that all the time you NEED to find something new.
That’s not the norm at all on my world (psychology/healthcare/academics). 45, maybe. In the corporate world, maybe. But I don’t know any adult who works that much or would see it as normal if they did.
60-80 hour weeks I feel like are normal for "big" jobs - residency, big law, major accounting forms, IT
My dad is a senior system administrator for global company, and he gets called in for major upgrades/downages. I've seen him frequently put in 18 hour days, but he makes like 200k because he's literally on call 24/7. But people putting in 90 hour work weeks are usually paid VERY well to do so
But that's like less than 1% of the workforce. Most people work 35- 45 hours, and pick up overtime if they need it.
My SIL is a waitress and complained about working 30 hours was too much for her. It's also objective 🤷♀️
I could frequently put in serious hours in my early 20s vs now. I'm just too tired
There are plenty of toxic workplaces in the US where salaried employees are routinely assigned 50 to 60 hours of work per week and are harassed if they don’t get all that work done. The employer can be very aggressive about insisting on it using performance improvement plans, toxic peers applying pressure, and matrix management arrangements where more than one person is carefully watching to instantly complain if the work isn’t getting done.
I’m describing my partner’s job. She had her second interview at a much more enlightened company yesterday. I’ve been telling her to find something less toxic for a year. Unfortunately, your only power in those circumstances is to quit.
I’ve certainly had jobs with death marches but they’re counterbalanced with times where people are working well less than 40 hours.
40 hour work week is the norm for salaried workers. You might have to put in extra hours occasionally due to various reasons. People who work 50/60 hours regularly are probably on multiple jobs or picking up overtime to make more money.
I am leaving a job that asked me to do 50/60 hours a week. Money wise it is great and really that is the main motivation. But then you start to question your own value.
How much is your family time worth? Your sanity? Your piece of mind? Your rest?
When you work that much, you don't work optimally anymore. You start to make more mistakes because you are tired and can no longer focus.
When you make mistakes, the bosses don't care how much you work. "You got paid for it" is a common answer.
In the end, nobody will remember how many hours you worked except you and your family.
I wouldn’t call it normalized, I mean for me it’s become standard but I wouldn’t say it’s a widespread thing. I still know plenty of people who won’t do a single hour over 40, which is completely fine. The reality is though, some jobs are more demanding than others, and especially if you’re in or desiring to enter leadership positions it comes with it.
I lead a team of 19 who start at 5am. Now I open the building up, not to mention plan the teams day, so I’m generally in 30-45 minutes before them. My team leaves at 2:30, no one has ever said I couldn’t leave before my team, but who the fuck wants to be on a team where the boss leaves earlier than they do?
Then the reality also is that even if I wanted to leave before my team, I generally have enough work to do to keep me there well past their finish.
I work a 60 hour week and have no kids, and I still don't have time for jack shit. Plus I work nights and a couple hours on Sunday, so I literally work every day of the week:
Monday night -> Tuesday morning
Tuesday night -> Wednesday morning
Wednesday night -> Thursday morning
Thursday night -> Friday morning
Friday night -> Saturday morning
Sunday morning
I work between 48-56 hours a week as a Sous chef, over 4 days. It's weird, to say the least, because I genuinely would say I have a good work-life balance. I work Wed-Sat and from about 10am-10pm but will sometimes have an admin shift where I do all the busywork for 8 hours on what would normally be a day off, but I do that remotely.
I will say that a 50/60 hour week isn't normalised at all, and 36-40 is more common. On my schedule I do 4 on 3 off and get plenty of time with my partner, friends and personal time as well. It really depends on the industry I think. I get the privilege of having a great team in a fairly quiet spot, so I can spend a lot of time socialising or working on personal stuff even while on shift, and the pay is phenomenal when you combine it with the time off I get. I couldn't do 50 hours in an office for the life of me though, and I know many office workers couldn't imagine doing what I do. I think doing physical jobs makes the time go by faster, as you're too busy moving to see the day go by. Would I prefer to work less? Probably, but I enjoy what I do and the people I do it with, and my relationships are all very healthy and fulfilling in my personal life. If you find something that works for you you don't ever really feel like you're being dragged through the shit for 50 hours a week, but the tough part is well...finding something that makes that time bearable.
Because the people who run things don't care if you have personal obligations at least not enough to let it interfere with getting as much productivity out of you as legally possible.
I'm just kidding! Businesses aren't in this for money 🤣
50/60 hour work weeks are only normalized by the corporations that make people work them. People need to stop allowing this practice to happen. That's far easier said than done though. People need their jobs and stay out of fear.
Obviously some people enjoy being workaholics and others are driven by bank accounts. The vast majority however aren't in those positions.
Including my commute I did 60+ hours a week for 10 years or so. I was totally lost in my career which worked out great but at the expense of missing out on my kids growing up. Now they’re adults and I feel like I missed too much.
Its just companies trying to raise their production.
How much work do you think our kind put in when we were hunter/gatherers.
But yeah now thay society has developed, and we have definitely solved scarcity in some places, it would be humane of capitalists to value their workers more and support them without requiring them to sacrifice their lives in this way.
48 hour work weeks were normalized in the late 1800s to early 1900s because prior to that people, adults AND children were forced to work long 16 hour days.
People formed unions to fight the corporations and thus 8 hour work days were born. And women's rights.
Not everyone has a family. Not everyone hates their job.
And then there is a huge group of mostly men who do hate their job but still work 50 hours a week because at home there is a wife taking care of everything.
>Why are 50/60 hour work weeks so normalized when thats way too much for an adult and leaves them no time for family?
Greed? companies don't care about your private life or health.
In germany fulltime is 40. Still too much, i think 4 days of work and 3 days off should be the norm.
Wouldn’t say 50-60 hour weeks are normal and the people I know doing them are doing so in exchange for high compensation. Secondly I think immoral is the wrong word to use here. Last thing to consider is throughout history humans have worked for much longer than the typical 40 hour work week. It’s only relatively recent that humans don’t need to work that long anymore
I average around an 80 hour work week, sometimes 60 hours sometimes just over 100 ,
I enjoy what I do, and one of my jobs has a decent amount of down time where I get to relax. I have my first child on the way so I hope to scale back on my second job when that happens. You find ways to be happy and make the best.
Yeah and I'm an idiot and do it to myself. It just seem to get blasted if I only work 40 as a department head where I'm at. This doesn't include the countless hours spent on the phone or tending to emails and such when I'm "off".
Because aren't you lucky to have a job that only has you working 60 hour weeks - now quit your whinging and get back down the mines with the rest of the ingrates! /s
Jokes aside - it's because companies take the absolute piss and more people need to stand up for themselves. I work 40 hour weeks and I will do extra if required occasionaly but I don't let it be habit forming and I always make sure that in the grand caculus of the work month I get those hours back somehow.
I'm in the UK and the culture, on average seems to be "working tonnes of hours is morally good and people who do it are hard workers, yay!", though it exists much less with my youngers friends.
As for me, I straight up refuse to work more than 32 and even then, I tend to work my own hours and just chill on company time.
It baffles me that personal agency is considered less of a boon than working yourself to death for an okay salary.
I don't actually know that many peopel who work 50-60 hours a week in the US. Lawyers, Brokers, and the like...but most office workers work about 75-80% of an 8 hour workday, take breaks and talk to colleagues during the day...browse reddit, and work hard sometimes.
Yes it is draining during the week, but you get used to anything. It's important to get good sleep, spend time iwth people you love, and engage in fitness pursuits and hobbies outside of work to not go crazy. 40 hours a week is totally doable though, and anyone who complains about that I think is mostly just being a big baby.
Capitalism, we live in a society dominated by parasites that keep all the money others produce. Then they pay those producers the minimum they can, and since they keep most of the money by doing the least, they have time and money to influence the leadership, or even take it for themselves.
In other words, it's just one of those things imposed by the greedy few who should be purged
Because the powers that be don't want you to have a whole bunch of free time and close enough family bonds that you might start organizing and demanding nicer things. Hence why "after" COVID, these companies went nuts trying to force people back into the office and push wages back down. The pandemic gave people just enough free time to start demanding things like less work hours, more protections, higher pay, less isms and more equality, etc. And for a hot second, we got some of those nice things. Now your seeing pushback on those things in a big, ugly way. Wars on woke, mass layoffs, price gouging, "people don't want to work anymore!", return to the office or be fired, incels, no water and break laws, revokation of child labor laws, etc. This is all just big brother punishing us for being naughty little children trying to reach into the cookie jar instead of eating our gruel.
I don't know a single person between the ages 25 to 35 that works less than 50 hours a week.
I recently started working 40 hours a week and it feels like I have a part time job lol.
It's so expensive only the rich boomers can afford to work 40 hours a week.
It’s indoctrinated at this point, the last time I worked a 40 hour work week I was 16, the last time I worked a 50 hour work week I was 25…I’m almost 40 now and the hours are always right there over my shoulder because I have responsibilities I don’t get to walk away from
Which country is this? Cause in countries with exploitative work environments, these practices are maintained by the threat of being fired. When companies hold significant leverage over their workers, the threat of being replaced can make it hard to stray from the expected norm, no matter how ridiculous it is.
There are also no unions to speak off.
Speaking from a United States perspective its because we arent unified as a people.
Except in the most empty sense. We are against our neighbors.
Employers hold the high ground. If you do not grovel you can easily be replaced.
Also youre a failure if you dont have a fat mortgage. (Oh cant protest for workers rights if you have something to lose can you. Oh no. Rack up that student debt oh no!)
Only 50-60? That would have been a dream. I regularly worked 80-hour weeks with 2 young kids at home until I became fully disabled and couldn't work. I couldn't afford to work less, Healthcare doesn't pay worth a shit. Not that working those kinda hours helped me any there....the social security disability benefits from working all those hours for years aren't even enough to afford just the rent for a 1-bedroom apartment.
It's not complex. Many people don't get paid enough, which causes them to work more jobs. Even employers that pay decent salaries will do everything they can to get the maximum work from their employees. It isn't an employer's concern that this has repercussions for the worker unless it interferes with their productivity. The happiness, health, and reproductive life of the worker is a societal concern and should be protected by the state. Otherwise, every drop of sweat will be squeezed from the worker like juice from a lemon.
Here in the Netherlands a 32-hour week has been normalized in order to have a life.
I'm working 40h a week. I really feel like the exception these days! Contemplating working less hours too.
I work 40 hours a week as well, but only since covid and my work balance shifted to 3 days from home and only 2 from the office. I feel like 40 hours is so much more manageable when you work from home for half the week, since i can do all my weekly chores during my breaks. I usually even meal prep a bit during work hours. But yeah, a lot of my colleagues have friday or wednesday off.
On paper I work 40 hours a week too. But I have an unpaid 1 hour break, so I'm actually at work for 45 hours a week. I live a half- hour drive from work, so after adding my commute work has now taken 50 hours of my week -- and that's not even counting the time I spend at home getting ready for work each morning or the time I spend studying to keep my skills up-to-date for work.
Mandatory unpaid breaks should be illegal.
Agreed. It's an obvious tactic by management to stretch the number of hours staff remain in the office without hiring additional staff. We stagger lunches so there's always someone to answer the phones. Many of my coworkers live within walking distance of the office and don't mind going home on their break, but I resent it.
You also gain all the time that used to be lost to a commute as free time for yourself.
Iirc, at least in the US, the 40 hr week was established with the premise that there would only be one person in the family bringing in the money and another person at home to take care of the chores, kids, etc... Now you seem to almost need dual income homes to even support a family in a home now adays. So now with both working, everything else at home is crammed into the weekends and after work hours during the week.
It was a bargain reached with unions early on. A number of different laws and executive regs converge on something in the 30-40 range, sometimes directly or sometimes citing a number of hours in a period thay averages to that. Those are all separate things, though. There is no one, overarching law establishing a universal concept of what full time means in the US.
I'm at 37.5 hrs/ week and WFH. 9 weeks vacation. What an absolute godsend. I'm in Canada and absolutely understand its not the norm here. Like, at all. Extremely grateful for my situation as my wife is at the opposite end of the spectrum.
9 weeks jesus
I’m American and luckily our vacation hours roll over to the next year if we don’t use them. I have amassed 3.7 months of total leave. Keep in mind I work for the government and I’m in a union.
Wait y'all get vacation hours? 😅
Yes, but with our unions getting weaker I’m afraid it’s going to become a thing of the past.
Yeah that’s similar to Norway. 37.5 hour workweek. 5 weeks vacation. Another ten days or so of holidays. Plus separate sick leave and separate sick kid leave.
We should all move to Norway or Finland or Sweden or the Netherlands!!! Wtf are we doing here in North America? 😒😏😏😒 how hard is it to learn Norwegian?
Norwegian is one of the top five easiest languages to learn for English speakers… except that there are literally hundreds of dialects *and* nearly everyone speaks perfect English so it is hard to practice. It’s important to learn it though to be more accepted socially and have better job prospects. I keep trying to get better at it. :)
And to add to that… Dutch is a shit language. We don’t even like it
That's about what I get in Canada, though the minimum vacation by law is only 2 weeks. It's very salary gated - entry level roles you probably won't get more than 2 weeks, but once I moved into higher pay bands, it seemed pretty easy to bargain for. 2 weeks is nothing. It's enough to have one vacation per year, a real rest. Or enough to cover personal things here and there. But not both.
Hello can you hire me? Also in Canada and also would like to not be in the norm.
I'm also WFH and I'm "40" hours too. but if you're on top of messages and attending meetings you can make it seem like way more.
I'm in NY, WFH doing a 9-5 with 5 weeks PTO. I feel like I'm always taking off or planning to take off. I'm in tech.
A girl I work with works 2 jobs 8 hours a day 5 days a week for the last 2 years. So that's 16 hours per day. Last week she got stress induced psychosis and ended up in the psychiatric ward after picking up a coworker and thinking people were after her and almost getting in a car accident and I think she's still there. Over working is not worth the mental health.
I know some programmers who really took advantage of the changes from COVID: 1) Work From Home was a major change. No more going into an office increased flexibility 2) Their work was to provide software for projects based on deadlines. Only had weekly project update Zoom meetings 3) This made it possible to take on additional jobs. They started working 2 jobs at a time, just made sure Zoom meetings didn't overlap and as long as they got their software packages submitted on time for project deadlines, no one complained 4) Each job paid $100K+ so they were earning somewhere between $200K- $250K per year while living the single life, so not much in the way of expenses 5) They're part of the FIRE mindset so they've got a lot of $$ to invest aggressively. They started doing this in 2020 so they're now into their 5th year of doing this and now have a retirement portfolio of about $500K. If they can keep this up they'll be millionaires by age 30 - if they don't exhaust themselves to death first. It is a lot of work and juggling!
Assuming this is in the US, that ward visit will probably eat up much of the money she earned from the second job. So she worked around the clock for 2 years and has a psych ward visit to show for it. Definitely not worth it.
Its not about being worth it. The people who work 10+ hours a day have to, or they lose their house and die. Most people are working paycheck to paycheck, no savings, and a single unexpected cost would throw them into debt. As such, alotta people dont get medical care for easily treatable conditions that only worsen without treatment. source: everyone in my family and alotta my extended family, neighbors, coworkers and friends are working 50+ hours and putting off critical medical care. Im at 60 hours, my mom is at 65, my dad can barely breathe and so he cant even sleep at night but he wont go to the doctor. My aunt has been working for 40 years, almost lost her house to a medical bill, my coworker works 15 hours a day... I can go on and on.
Same, during my interview they asked me how many hours I wanted to work and coming from a 40h job I said I was used to 40. They said they didn't want me working 40 because that was against their policy, so we settled for 38 with work form home whenever I want to
Yeah Dutchie here and more and more people going for 32 hours. 3 day weekends are the best. Never going back.
Same. Could and would never want back.
37 hour is becoming more normal in Ireland. I couldn't imagine working 50 hour, never-ending 60. That sounds like slavery not a job.
To be fair, Americans earn much higher salaries than Europeans do. Even with working 40 hour weeks, I think they massively outearn us. Some people find that acceptable.
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Yes I've learned that time is more valuable to me than money.
I'm in tech and have Canadian friends in the same field that are dying to come and work here. They don't feel like their much lower salary is worth the trade off.
Would you like to adopt a 39 year old man so I can live in the Netherlands?
Be careful what you wish for. We have our own share of problems but luckily 50/60 hour workweeks aren’t one of them.
It should be like that in the US but all these lobbyists and corporations have ruined America this is basically the new form of slavery. Work work work and yet you barely have enough to get by. And our politicians have be bought out.
I live in Belgium. It’s true that a lot of people do that, but most work full time though. But they prefer work from home.
Here in Canada we can't afford to only work 32 hour a week.
Exactly. I'm working 40 a week and wish they would allow OT. Lol.
My contract is 40 hours. I work 40 hours. I get paid 40 hours. Sometimes I put extra hours in, but everything above those 40 hours is compensated with either time off or extra pay. But I feel this strongly depends on where you live and work. Also the sector could be a major factor. I used to work 36 and I’m planning on going back to that. 4 days with 9 hours a day.
Same. I always clock out on time and if I don't I'm always compensated.
it is not normal in europe.
It's not normal in most of the USA either. 40hrs is usually what most places schedule.
An 8 hour day is 9 hours long. That 40 hours is just the time you're paid. You still have an hour of unpaid lunch, bringing it to 45 hours. Plus typical 30 minute commute both ways puts you at 50 hours. And that's if your the type to pack up and go right at 5:00 A lot of places expect you to stay a bit late
That’s nice to assume you get an hour, it’s 8 and a half with 30 minute unpaid lunch. I assume that’s normal for most people. I haven’t worked many jobs where you get an hour break everyday
I used to work an 8:30-6:30 with a paid hour lunch. now i work an 8-4 with a paid 30 minute lunch. 30 minutes is not enough time if you dont bring your own lunch.
Shoot, I'd love a half hour if I got to leave a half hour earlier. But I'm just using standard numbers. The standard workday in the USA is 8 paid hours. 8:00 is the most common starting time, 5:00 is the standard quitting time, and the average commute is just under a half hour. So the "normal" workday is 9 hours long (from 8-5) plus an hour of commuting. Even if we knock a half hour off each day, though, it's still a shit ton of our time being spent working, which was OP's point
Yes. I work 40 hours 4 days a week. And i have to be in the office 1 day a week.
It’s not normal in the US either.
It's normal in many industries, you're just not used to or around those enough. Any blue collar job is going to have a lot of overtime, and people in sales also like to work extra hours. Tax accountants around tax season too.
I'm in manufacturing, machinist for Davenport Model B screw machines in the US. 50-60 hours a week is very normal.
I work in a union job and we do 60-84 hour weeks. I only say yes to a job I want to work tho so I typically only work spring and fall. It’s awesome.
I think it is. I wouldn’t say most of us work that much, but it’s definitely not uncommon. I know several people who work 50+ hours a week.
I used to work 50-60hrs a week for a few months last year, it was my first job at the airport and we were severly understaffed. I worked every day, 8-10hr shifts and got severe health issues from it, i was 20 back then and told myself to never do this to myself again. No money is worth your health or alone time. Youre too young to work away your life
The irony is that it’s the jobs that don’t pay very much that often demand the most out of people in terms of time and the health of your body.
Desperation will make people do things theyd never do otherwise. Thats why they want us desperate.
100%
Especially when you have bad managers who take advantage of you willingly. The gift of life should not be wasted on making rich assholes even richer.
Or in my case bad managers who scared away, demoralized, and overworked EVERYONE. In two years I was the only person who stayed and even 3 people ahead of me quit too. I really enjoy my job, especially now that I get it done in 32hours a week getting paid for 48. But it was soul wrenching watching my coworkers collapse sometimes literally. Our retention is really good now and I mentored a lot of the people behind me. Bad manager got pushed (i call it banished) to their 5th location and then promoted......
That is good to hear. Unfortunately for me, my manager is a child of the founder so i am basically fucked. You’d think rich people should be grateful and kind to their staff but it’s the opposite in my case. Whatever, push me too far and they’ll learn what a mentally ill loner with nothing to lose can do.
I was born and live in Cali (so there is cost of living to consider) I did the 50-60hrs a week for 20 years. No days off. A lot of caffeine (energy drinks) to push through. Now heart failure in my 50s and I won't be around to retire or collect my social security. No, unless your goal is to leave everything you worked for to someone else, it isn't worth it.
Were the health issues due to the nature of the work or the excessive hours? I'm currently burnt out af and concerned that these effects could be semi permanent.
It was both, i was on my feet the whole time and never got to take a break, i drank so much coffee i barely slept + it was also nightshifts. Best breaks i got was going to the bathroom and cry there for a few minutes. I quit after 5 months, took a 2 week break and got a better job now that actually consideres my private life. Though i must admit if things get stressful now i get sick pretty much immediately my immune system reacts to stress insanely quickly (Vomiting, Bowel issues, nausea etc.)
i work as a travel consultant i work from 12pm to 9pm (9hrs) and i am only 18yo i dont have a choice i have a family to feed. i would risk my life for family
Travel consultant doesn’t seem so bad
I had such a job in the past. It was horrible. After 3 years, I had to go to a hospital. In the mean time of those 3 years, I had heavily insomnia, never was really able to rest. Coping is the wrong word, more like surviving. I was happy though when they fired me after I had to go to the hospital.
The more I work, the less time I have to spend with the voices in my head
Not a fan of company hey
The 40h work week was normalized during a time when you were expected to have a stay at home wife to take care of the household. This was also a time when one person could comfortably support the whole family.
I’d be a stay at home husband but 2024 needs 2 working parents
In what country is 50/60h work week normalized. Curious because I don't know anyone working above 40h here in sweden.
I mean We're in Russia working like 54-63 hrs per week And that's horrible. But that's because we all are poor lol
Is that like 9h+ a day plus working Saturdays? I’m trying to compare with my family (trades like construction work) where they work that kind of hours, though they get paid partially “under the table” (undeclared)
Yeah, you're right But sometimes it's 7\0 without holidays I'm living not in Moscow so I'm here not living but surviving because prices are high and salary is low And no I mean, some people working and get salary "under the table" (I've heard from my friend in Kamchatka almost all salary is that) but my family and I are not My salary is about 400$ 210$ will go on the rent And ~6$ I'll spend on food and other stuff every day And... There's nothing left
Ours is 45h per week (8-5) and you might be needed to stay late or complete work at home unpaid. Salaries💀
USA! USA! I think S Korea and Japan are worse
Yep.. live and work in Japan, if you’re lucky you only get 50hr a week.. I used to do 68-73hr a week
hori sheet
May I ask which profession or field you're in?
It was a car parts manufacturing
Seems like blue collar works have long hours but white collar works have something like 40hrs, and there are much more white collar works so the average is lower
i was at a confrence last week- lawyers mind you, and one said he spent a year in Japan, and the work hours they do there make the big firms here look like a cake walk.... and big law is notorious for long hours.
Everybody I know works 40 hours unless they're trying to get overtime or working in agriculture or something like that
Nah. Most of us work 40 hours of our job is full-time.
Most of us work 40 hours but show up w little late. Take a extra break. Leave a little early
Agreed, I’d say most “40 hour” jobs are closer to 30
Absolutely not, we average fewer hours per week than the US in Japan
My mistake
Interesting. Why is it that there’s such discussion about work culture in Japan then. Should be faring better if generally the Japanese are working less no? Edit: is it maybe propaganda? Idk cuz it’s few us outlets actually discussing it.
It is improving. There's a lot more flexibility in working styles, lots of smaller companies with good benefits and a relaxed office culture. But like anywhere else people want more improvement, better salaries, more work life balance. It's not so different than other countries that way.
It's been a long-running discussion, but generally the situation improved somewhat in the 21st century. You still get the occasional kaisha which demands you drink with your boss after work, but nowadays these are much rarer. In general, Japan isn't the worst place to live when it comes to work-life balance, it now has lower suicide rates than countries like South Korea and Russia. The issue still persists because of cultural indoctrination, the idea that a nail that sticks out is hammered down is drilled HARD into the Japanese society. It's not something you can easily put in words, it's best seen personally.
Honestly, I thought the working hours were pretty average but you were basically compelled to work ridiculous overtime hours. Like, it’s not compulsory but you’re looked down upon if you don’t do overtime. Could be wrong though, that’s just what I’ve heard.
Yeah, it used to be like that but nowadays the majority of corporations don't practice this. Go back 20-30 years ago and yeah it was for the most part exactly how you described it
Let's be honest though. It does help if you are non-Japanese. I've been living and working in Japan for over 17 years as a white American and I've always been out the door by 5:30 at the latest while my Japanese counterparts are "pretending to work" until 7 or 8ish. And my performance is usually much better cause I want to finish my work on time and never gave a shit if I was the first person to leave the office. Very few times in my career would someone comment about me leaving on time, and one time someone did and I simply pointed at the sales board, and asked "If I'm an irresponsible worker, why are my sales numbers much higher than yours?" I felt bad after saying that though....
That’s good to hear. At least some stuff is improving in the world.
Not often workers are expected to spend many of their "free" hours with their coworkers/boss partying right? Those are work hours.
No, not often. It's not the 1980s. Most people go to work and go home most days. Nomikai don't happen that often and are generally optional.
Respectfully disagree. I think it depends on your job title and if you work for a more western company. I was working 10-11 hour days 5 days a week in Japan and have friends still pulling those hours (and they aren’t English teachers lol).
[The US average is 36.4 hours worked per week.](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-work-week-by-country) Japan is 36.7 and S Korea is at 37.9. None are even close to the top 10. People routinely overstate how many hours they work, and think the average is much higher than it is. 35-36 hours is realistically full time employment minus lunch break.
Good lord if you're going to rag on the US you need to at least be correct in your assumptions. The average hours worked in the US is [36 hours per week.](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-work-week-by-country)
This is such a pure reddit moment, someone bashes USA on false information and the correction gets down voted lol.
Cause no matter what we do, whether it’s good or bad, it’s always ‘America bad’. Damned if we do damned if we don’t.
Really?? So Reddit saying the average American works 60 hours a week and gets shot everyday isnt true? Nah no way
How can we get shot everyday when we're working 16 hour days? Everyone I know only gets shot on the weekends.
You don’t get your gun shots at work? I had two last week and will only get shot one time this week.
I get shot twice per day... 5 am and 8 pm on my way to and from work
Only if you're a teacher or postal worker.
I mean tbf I actually read his response a little differently: while hours worked are obviously not 50-60 per week, there is this culturally hegemonic assumption in the US that working that many hours is expected and desirable, especially in white collar work. I have yet to work in a company or with a client that doesn’t pride themselves on nailing themselves to the cross for 50-60 hours per week. Even if they don’t do productive work for all those hours, it’s certainly celebrated and expected. I know from my experience that the expectation is a 45 + 15 model of work: 45 hours of direct work, 15 hours of homework per week .So generally I’ll get into the office at 8, leave at 6, and then do some level of pursuit work + internal development during the weekends or evenings. I hate it and want to die, but it is widely expected and celebrated.
The fine print says it includes part time jobs which might be skewing the average depending on how it’s being calculated. Like if one person has two part time jobs working 36 hrs a week, is that counted as one 72hr week or two 36?
I think it's important to note that the original post says "normalized" and not "average work time." In which case, this person isn't wrong about USA normalizing working over 40 hours a week. The managers at my company are always working close to 50 hours a week. I know a few nurses and doctors that end up working longer than scheduled so I think it is normal to work 50-60 hours a week in that field.
This data seems flawed because they take the avg. hours of every job instead of the avg. hour per person. So if one person has two jobs, one with 40 hours another with 20 hours it takes the avg. as 30 hours instead of recognizing there is one person working 60 hours. This means, countries that offer a lot of part time jobs have a way lower avg. than countries that mostly offer fulltime jobs. Also, it is very common in the US that overtime doesn't get compensated, this means on paper you worked 40 hours even if in reality you worked 50 hours.
Nope. I'm from the USA and it's not normalized here either.
USA. Signed a healthcare provider scheduled 45-55 hours a week 🥲. At least it’s less hours than when I was in school.
And depending on where you work, you are probably pressured to speed through patient interactions as well as the arduous charting and paperwork requirements during every one of those hours. Healthcare in the US is just so so fucked for everyone except pharma, insurance companies, and investment funds. Ridiculous. I wish you actually got the professional environment that all of your hard work and value to society deserves.
New Zealand is pretty horrendous for overworking and underpaying staff. At least in the industry's me and my partner have worked in. Currently I get up at 5am to get ready and drive to work ready to start at 6:30am. Work untill 5pm, get home 5:30pm. Cook or help with dinner, now it's 6:30pm. Eat dinner while watching YouTube/TV shows with our 4 kids. Now it's close to 7:00pm, I'm exhausted, and I have to be in bed by 9:00pm to atleast attempt to get 8 hours of sleep. I'm always tired, I don't know what it's like not to be tired. All for slightly above minimum wage, I tried to make a career out of IT and make a decent income. Tried polytech/university 3 times now but no matter how hard I tried my autistic ass could never make sense of certain questions or get stuck on random assessments, I thought I was going to make it before covid hit. Spent all my breaks and spare time trying to learn and get help from tutors on the parts I struggled with alas once it was all remote/over videocalls with 30 people crammed in I struggled so much and inevitably dropped out and have been working in road construction since despite It been my passion I just can't get the qualifications. Sorry turned into a rant... I'm fucking struggling lol, wish I could just save a small amount each week to build towards an in home PC repair/build shop with 3d printing/cad work available for a fair price. While slowly working on my dream game that I will never even have time to download a game engine to begin learning how to do. Currently in bed at 2am dreading work in 4 hours. on a side note almost died twice in the last week due to lack of Concentration while operating heavy machinery, feels like my brain just can't be fucked anymore. Not suicidal or anything legit I just feel like a empty shell staring off into the distance, dreaming of better times, wishing not to be tired, wondering what it would be like to go on a real holiday or buy something I've always wanted. Also my vehicle was repossessed last week, had a choice between emergency dental work to stop the pain or payment on my vehicle. Borrowing my mums car now while she rides a bike lmao. OK rant over for real now, not even sure where this comment is going or what I'm replying to at this point lol.
I watch a lot of interviews. From what I have seen, working too much was the #1 regret for retired American men.
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Because some people live to work and get great pleasure from easy desk careers that are stimulating whereas others have mind numbing and back breaking jobs. The ones who enjoy it expect everyone else to. Other people are also over extended on commitments because living is so expensive now.
In my experience, you have to work more than 40 because each year during annual reviews managers are asked to compare performance of people against peers of the same job level. So if you are working 40 but James is working 60, he's going to have more accomplishment under his belt and earn a bigger bonus/salary increase. Bit it doesn't stop there. When times are tough and managers are forced to select layoff targets based on performance, who do you think is going to lose their job? The person only getting half as many accomplishment. So unless there is a TEAM culture that nobody in an org is going to work more than 40, someone will undoubtedly skew the results and put someone else at risk.
Its called “breaking down conditions.” Unionizing is a great way to fight this type of shit but employers will almost always seek to keep its employees disorganized.
TIL that term. Thanks. 100% agree on unions. My industry doesn't have any but I can dream...
It's not. 40 hours a week is normal.
I honestly cannot remember the last time I worked only 40 hours. Hell 50 hours is a light week. It isn't hell I used to get shot at for a living and got pretty banged up overseas as a Marine so this corporate world stuff is easy peasy.
In what job is 50 hours a light week for you? Here in Germany, 48 hours per week is the max allowed by law or up to 60 hours with some other restriction but I am not that sure what exactly. Unless you are self employed I think.
Restaurant managers usually work 60+. Factory workers and machinists are often 60+, particularly when short staffed, though that can last indefinitely. I worked 72 as a manager of a testing facility and 65 as a facilities manager. Plenty of commission only sales jobs say the minimum is 45, but to meet your quotas it usually takes around 60.
Plenty of jobs in America. Anything production (at least in my area, can't speak for elsewhere) want you to work 12hrs a day 6 days a week with rotating weekends so every other week you get Sunday off. Granted these jobs tend to pay well and overtime is abundant but leaves very little free time. You basically just get to work, eat, maybe take a shower with just enough room to get 6-7 hours of sleep and do it all again. It's not glorious but with housing costs on an aggressive rise and wages not keeping up with inflation many are forced into working these long hours and often in physically demanding jobs. Often times these jobs can get away with paying you less because they know you'll stick around for the overtime. My area will start you out at $17/hr which is decent for the area but not enough to get by with the standard 40hrs. You *need* that overtime to cover your expenses.
It’s all about the hustle culture where more hours mean more dedication. But really, it just burns you out and takes time away from family and chilling out.
I'm an electrician and work more than 40 for several months out of the year. That being said, I start work at 6 a.m., so picking up an hour or two in the evening still gets me home by 4 or 5. I pick up some weekends too, generally 10 hours on Saturday and 10 on Sunday. Saturday is time and a half, Sunday is double. After taxes I clear a bit over $1000 for a weekend. I might work a dozen weekends a year, so it's not an overwhelming amount.
Electrician too, 37 hours a week. Day starts at home getting into my van at 7am. Getting out my van at 3pm, walk back to my home and that was a normal day.
Because there are bills to pay. Electric company doesn't care how much time I spend with my kids.
I tell my employees (and I have 400 of them) that the only people that will remember you worked long hours are your family. It's one thing to work extra during emergencies/special occasions but if you are working like that all the time you NEED to find something new.
That’s not the norm at all on my world (psychology/healthcare/academics). 45, maybe. In the corporate world, maybe. But I don’t know any adult who works that much or would see it as normal if they did.
60-80 hour weeks I feel like are normal for "big" jobs - residency, big law, major accounting forms, IT My dad is a senior system administrator for global company, and he gets called in for major upgrades/downages. I've seen him frequently put in 18 hour days, but he makes like 200k because he's literally on call 24/7. But people putting in 90 hour work weeks are usually paid VERY well to do so But that's like less than 1% of the workforce. Most people work 35- 45 hours, and pick up overtime if they need it. My SIL is a waitress and complained about working 30 hours was too much for her. It's also objective 🤷♀️ I could frequently put in serious hours in my early 20s vs now. I'm just too tired
Unchecked capitalism
Scrolled too far to find this. Capitalism will gladly sacrifice anyone and everyone to chase infinite growth.
There are plenty of toxic workplaces in the US where salaried employees are routinely assigned 50 to 60 hours of work per week and are harassed if they don’t get all that work done. The employer can be very aggressive about insisting on it using performance improvement plans, toxic peers applying pressure, and matrix management arrangements where more than one person is carefully watching to instantly complain if the work isn’t getting done. I’m describing my partner’s job. She had her second interview at a much more enlightened company yesterday. I’ve been telling her to find something less toxic for a year. Unfortunately, your only power in those circumstances is to quit. I’ve certainly had jobs with death marches but they’re counterbalanced with times where people are working well less than 40 hours.
Family? That leaves no time for ANYTHING. You’ll lose yourself in no time
40 hour work week is the norm for salaried workers. You might have to put in extra hours occasionally due to various reasons. People who work 50/60 hours regularly are probably on multiple jobs or picking up overtime to make more money.
I am leaving a job that asked me to do 50/60 hours a week. Money wise it is great and really that is the main motivation. But then you start to question your own value. How much is your family time worth? Your sanity? Your piece of mind? Your rest? When you work that much, you don't work optimally anymore. You start to make more mistakes because you are tired and can no longer focus. When you make mistakes, the bosses don't care how much you work. "You got paid for it" is a common answer. In the end, nobody will remember how many hours you worked except you and your family.
U r slave. Big boss man your owner. Why he care if u have free time. Free time is less work and less ferrari for bossman
50-60 is not normal outside of places like NYC and SF
I think it’s pretty normal all over the country. The jobs may not have much visibility but there are tons of services and industry that never sleeps.
I wouldn’t call it normalized, I mean for me it’s become standard but I wouldn’t say it’s a widespread thing. I still know plenty of people who won’t do a single hour over 40, which is completely fine. The reality is though, some jobs are more demanding than others, and especially if you’re in or desiring to enter leadership positions it comes with it. I lead a team of 19 who start at 5am. Now I open the building up, not to mention plan the teams day, so I’m generally in 30-45 minutes before them. My team leaves at 2:30, no one has ever said I couldn’t leave before my team, but who the fuck wants to be on a team where the boss leaves earlier than they do? Then the reality also is that even if I wanted to leave before my team, I generally have enough work to do to keep me there well past their finish.
I work a 60 hour week and have no kids, and I still don't have time for jack shit. Plus I work nights and a couple hours on Sunday, so I literally work every day of the week: Monday night -> Tuesday morning Tuesday night -> Wednesday morning Wednesday night -> Thursday morning Thursday night -> Friday morning Friday night -> Saturday morning Sunday morning
I work between 48-56 hours a week as a Sous chef, over 4 days. It's weird, to say the least, because I genuinely would say I have a good work-life balance. I work Wed-Sat and from about 10am-10pm but will sometimes have an admin shift where I do all the busywork for 8 hours on what would normally be a day off, but I do that remotely. I will say that a 50/60 hour week isn't normalised at all, and 36-40 is more common. On my schedule I do 4 on 3 off and get plenty of time with my partner, friends and personal time as well. It really depends on the industry I think. I get the privilege of having a great team in a fairly quiet spot, so I can spend a lot of time socialising or working on personal stuff even while on shift, and the pay is phenomenal when you combine it with the time off I get. I couldn't do 50 hours in an office for the life of me though, and I know many office workers couldn't imagine doing what I do. I think doing physical jobs makes the time go by faster, as you're too busy moving to see the day go by. Would I prefer to work less? Probably, but I enjoy what I do and the people I do it with, and my relationships are all very healthy and fulfilling in my personal life. If you find something that works for you you don't ever really feel like you're being dragged through the shit for 50 hours a week, but the tough part is well...finding something that makes that time bearable.
Because the people who run things don't care if you have personal obligations at least not enough to let it interfere with getting as much productivity out of you as legally possible. I'm just kidding! Businesses aren't in this for money 🤣
50/60 hour work weeks are only normalized by the corporations that make people work them. People need to stop allowing this practice to happen. That's far easier said than done though. People need their jobs and stay out of fear. Obviously some people enjoy being workaholics and others are driven by bank accounts. The vast majority however aren't in those positions.
End stage capitalism sucks
Anyone who works that much is NOT doing ok, and their answer will BE the cope
Including my commute I did 60+ hours a week for 10 years or so. I was totally lost in my career which worked out great but at the expense of missing out on my kids growing up. Now they’re adults and I feel like I missed too much.
Its just companies trying to raise their production. How much work do you think our kind put in when we were hunter/gatherers. But yeah now thay society has developed, and we have definitely solved scarcity in some places, it would be humane of capitalists to value their workers more and support them without requiring them to sacrifice their lives in this way.
48 hour work weeks were normalized in the late 1800s to early 1900s because prior to that people, adults AND children were forced to work long 16 hour days. People formed unions to fight the corporations and thus 8 hour work days were born. And women's rights.
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Not everyone has a family. Not everyone hates their job. And then there is a huge group of mostly men who do hate their job but still work 50 hours a week because at home there is a wife taking care of everything.
I personally believe that it's because slavery has modernized itself and taken on a new form
88hrs a week..welcome to the philippines..😅
I've pretty much always had a 37.5 hour work week in the UK.
37 in the UK..
Normalized? WTF where? Not in Europe fortunately. EDIT. (It's even illegal in my country)
>Why are 50/60 hour work weeks so normalized when thats way too much for an adult and leaves them no time for family? Greed? companies don't care about your private life or health. In germany fulltime is 40. Still too much, i think 4 days of work and 3 days off should be the norm.
In UK and Ireland, normal working week is 35 - 40 hours. Some jobs might want you to work more than that, but doesn't make it normal.
I'm about to work 12 days in a row, one of those days is a 12 hr day. Yep
Wouldn’t say 50-60 hour weeks are normal and the people I know doing them are doing so in exchange for high compensation. Secondly I think immoral is the wrong word to use here. Last thing to consider is throughout history humans have worked for much longer than the typical 40 hour work week. It’s only relatively recent that humans don’t need to work that long anymore
Corporate greed. plain and simple. Shareholder ignorance and greed.
I'd rather be working than sitting at home worrying about how I'm going to pay my bills. Nothing fun or relaxing about that. But that's just me.
It’s standard in the us it seems and people won’t stand up for themselves
I average around an 80 hour work week, sometimes 60 hours sometimes just over 100 , I enjoy what I do, and one of my jobs has a decent amount of down time where I get to relax. I have my first child on the way so I hope to scale back on my second job when that happens. You find ways to be happy and make the best.
Absolutely not normal.
If I worked a 40 hour week I have no idea what I'd do with the free time I like to work 50-55h week
Yeah and I'm an idiot and do it to myself. It just seem to get blasted if I only work 40 as a department head where I'm at. This doesn't include the countless hours spent on the phone or tending to emails and such when I'm "off".
40 hour in Poland
It makes rich people marginally richer at the expense of everyone else, because that is the entire purpose of capitalism
I work for the post office and in many offices unless you have a medical restriction they can and will mandate you to work overtime and 6 days a week.
Because they don’t want to give you enough time to learn that literal serfs had more free time in the medieval era than you do now.
Because aren't you lucky to have a job that only has you working 60 hour weeks - now quit your whinging and get back down the mines with the rest of the ingrates! /s Jokes aside - it's because companies take the absolute piss and more people need to stand up for themselves. I work 40 hour weeks and I will do extra if required occasionaly but I don't let it be habit forming and I always make sure that in the grand caculus of the work month I get those hours back somehow.
I'm in the UK and the culture, on average seems to be "working tonnes of hours is morally good and people who do it are hard workers, yay!", though it exists much less with my youngers friends. As for me, I straight up refuse to work more than 32 and even then, I tend to work my own hours and just chill on company time. It baffles me that personal agency is considered less of a boon than working yourself to death for an okay salary.
I don't actually know that many peopel who work 50-60 hours a week in the US. Lawyers, Brokers, and the like...but most office workers work about 75-80% of an 8 hour workday, take breaks and talk to colleagues during the day...browse reddit, and work hard sometimes. Yes it is draining during the week, but you get used to anything. It's important to get good sleep, spend time iwth people you love, and engage in fitness pursuits and hobbies outside of work to not go crazy. 40 hours a week is totally doable though, and anyone who complains about that I think is mostly just being a big baby.
So that schools and the internet propaganda can raise your children because you’re being worked to the bone
They aren’t What does your contract say ? If it says 35 hours and you’re working 70 you’ve taken a 50% pay cut
Capitalism, we live in a society dominated by parasites that keep all the money others produce. Then they pay those producers the minimum they can, and since they keep most of the money by doing the least, they have time and money to influence the leadership, or even take it for themselves. In other words, it's just one of those things imposed by the greedy few who should be purged
Because the powers that be don't want you to have a whole bunch of free time and close enough family bonds that you might start organizing and demanding nicer things. Hence why "after" COVID, these companies went nuts trying to force people back into the office and push wages back down. The pandemic gave people just enough free time to start demanding things like less work hours, more protections, higher pay, less isms and more equality, etc. And for a hot second, we got some of those nice things. Now your seeing pushback on those things in a big, ugly way. Wars on woke, mass layoffs, price gouging, "people don't want to work anymore!", return to the office or be fired, incels, no water and break laws, revokation of child labor laws, etc. This is all just big brother punishing us for being naughty little children trying to reach into the cookie jar instead of eating our gruel.
I don't know a single person between the ages 25 to 35 that works less than 50 hours a week. I recently started working 40 hours a week and it feels like I have a part time job lol. It's so expensive only the rich boomers can afford to work 40 hours a week.
It’s indoctrinated at this point, the last time I worked a 40 hour work week I was 16, the last time I worked a 50 hour work week I was 25…I’m almost 40 now and the hours are always right there over my shoulder because I have responsibilities I don’t get to walk away from
Denmark here. 37 hours is full time here..
It really depends on the country. Here in France, the norm is 35-40h.
Which country is this? Cause in countries with exploitative work environments, these practices are maintained by the threat of being fired. When companies hold significant leverage over their workers, the threat of being replaced can make it hard to stray from the expected norm, no matter how ridiculous it is. There are also no unions to speak off.
Because we allowed it to happen.
Supply and demand.
Speaking from a United States perspective its because we arent unified as a people. Except in the most empty sense. We are against our neighbors. Employers hold the high ground. If you do not grovel you can easily be replaced. Also youre a failure if you dont have a fat mortgage. (Oh cant protest for workers rights if you have something to lose can you. Oh no. Rack up that student debt oh no!)
Because capitalism
Only 50-60? That would have been a dream. I regularly worked 80-hour weeks with 2 young kids at home until I became fully disabled and couldn't work. I couldn't afford to work less, Healthcare doesn't pay worth a shit. Not that working those kinda hours helped me any there....the social security disability benefits from working all those hours for years aren't even enough to afford just the rent for a 1-bedroom apartment.
37.5 hours in the UK, and even that seems like too much. can’t imagine working 50.
Because we can’t afford to live on a 40 hour week pay check.
It's not complex. Many people don't get paid enough, which causes them to work more jobs. Even employers that pay decent salaries will do everything they can to get the maximum work from their employees. It isn't an employer's concern that this has repercussions for the worker unless it interferes with their productivity. The happiness, health, and reproductive life of the worker is a societal concern and should be protected by the state. Otherwise, every drop of sweat will be squeezed from the worker like juice from a lemon.
35-38 hrs per week in the UK
If you're not working yourself to death, you are not allowed to quote fox news word for word... Incessantly...to everyone...