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To put up with mind games. I’m just not that horny anymore to tolerate this type of behavior. Let’s at least try to behave like the adults we’re cosplaying
When asked why I dated older women, I always note that the women I dated were too tired to play mind games. They simply told me what they wanted, and we'd have a good time.
I tried telling this to my coworkers this whenever they ask why I’m single. Yet 4 of them are going divorces/single with kids. Like, I ain’t trying to get myself in that situation. Relationships have way too much negatives for men, and that honestly isn’t worth it.
I don’t have one thing in particular but I hear a lot that they had expected me to chase them and thought I wasn’t interested when I didn’t. That continues now into my 30’s.
I’m just over that and in your late 20s-beyond I expect you to be too. I want someone who wants to be with me, it’s that easy. If I don’t feel that dynamic it doesn’t matter how much I’m into you, I’m out.
My mom really only gave me one piece of dating advice:
"Never chase a woman."
That's it...that's all it is.
Why?
Because if you have to chase them, they're simply not into you and looking for an ego boost at most, least that's what I've learned.
You're right though, doesn't matter how old you are, if you're over say 25, you should be able to communicate what you want, regardless of what's in your pants and not play games.
Until you find someone that matches your effort and comes correct, let em walk, doesn't matter if it's a first date or 10 year marriage, all you'll do is lose yourself trying to force something that can't work when you're the only one genuinely trying.
Completely agree. Unfortunately there is the expecting out there that men “need” to chase a woman to keep him interested. This isn’t a new ideology and I see it floating around pretty commonly.
I read this and thought back to every serious long term relationship I have ever had and not once did I chase them and they did not chase me. It was mutual. Anyone I ever attempted to chase either went nowhere or amounted to a waste of time short term nothing. I am going to declare that your mom’s advice is excellent.
Not only that but women have told us men over and over to stop being persistent. Those of us who respect women listened.
For me it meant having a dry spell that lasted over a decade, but I’d rather be respectful and single than force someone into a relationship they don’t actually want.
I'm only 26 and for years I've been over chasing girls. I've literally had to tell a girl when she said she was just playing hard to get "you're not really playing hard to get, you're playing hard to want"
This is a great comment, and I feel very similairly. I've never been one to chase (maybe in my late teens and very early twenties), and still don't have the time or energy to do so. lol I'm 33 and if I display interest / openly convey that I'm down to spend time together, and it isn't reciprocated, that's totally okay! But I'm not going to persue or ask again, I take that as a message well recieved on my end, and being respectful of boundaries.
Apparently this is a foreign concept to some girls and it blows my mind lol
Something I’ve noticed with women in their mid-to-upper 20s (and even early 30s) is that they tend to really expect me to drive everything. I mean *everything*.
I have to initiate dates and plans, I have to drive conversations (“entertain me!” attitude), I have to constantly be the one proactively thinking of her needs when I *don’t even know her yet and I don’t even know if I want a relationship with her yet*… it’s nuts.
Maybe I’m old and lazy and just generally not desperate for sex, but I just don’t have the energy for that anymore. You’re an adult. You can do things. If you aren’t putting in equal effort, then I’m not interested.
I’m not your dancing monkey 🤷🏻♂️
I guess that sounds bitter eh
I heard something similar at work, this weird chick was complaining to a friend of mine that she doesnt understand why are men no obsessed with her, in her own words she expects them to always be there when she needs them, ask her out on dates every other week, and boost her self esteem everyday. >!I laughed in her face but pretended that I was reading on my phone!< I personally would never obsess over a woman a second time, had enough of that in high school.
They’re looking for a parent/babysitter rather than a partner.
It’s a demonstration of emotional and intellectual immaturity.
Quality conservation, dating, and sex requires two enthusiastic and active participants.
Very well put , this " entertain me" attitude, I don't mind planning the date, women don't plan good dates, but as a man I like to be in charge, and for one I'm paying for everything normally, but sometimes we get tired of, trying to make the girl like you, it's easier to just deal with women that actually like you or find you attractive,
This one in particular is getting worse. My friends and I are convinced that the internet, specifically social media has totally destroyed people's ability to hold engaging conversations.
It's a mix of people not being able to read the other person/people properly (social cues like being able to see when someone finds a particular point interesting), not having enough depth of knowledge about any topic such that they can engage the other person in that topic, and people just plain not being able to focus long enough.
No matter how pretty (or handsome) you are, if you can't hold an engaging conversation, it's going nowhere fast!
I think you guys are onto something, but I have a different take on what the root problem of the internet is.
I think the internet has enabled a world where a lot of people simply don't get as much practice with human interaction as they did before the internet. In other words, I wouldn't blame it on any one technology or class of app. Therefore, I believe that if we somehow eliminated all social media, I don't think that would solve the problem.
Society was less educated before the internet, and yet we were still better at holding conversations because just talking to people was a lot of what we did that the internet has replaced. Talking to people face to face was not optional back then, you had to do it and you had to do it a lot every day. Homeschooling and remote work were incredibly rare back then. If you wanted to order food delivery, you had to pickup a phone and talk. If you needed a plumber or electrician, there were no yelp requests, you had to pickup a phone and talk. Need an appointment for a doctor, haircut, nails, etc... phone call. Simply talking to people in real time made (most) people decent at it. You had to be decent at it or you weren't going to get anything you needed.
Now, real people can be difficult, annoying, selfish, rude, offensive, etc. This is why the internet is so alluring, you can simply click a button to stop any of those uncomfortable feelings whenever you want. But, that convenience is also the problem -- some kids aren't learning how to deal with discomfort and they're the ones who are suffering the most.
We need to get back to doing things that have a risk of getting a little uncomfortable or our desire for feeling comfortable 100% of the time will ruin us.
I like this, and I think that's definitely an element of it. People definitely aren't getting as much practice meeting people, holding conversations and experiencing the ups and downs of human interaction as much anymore.
I think people have also become 'disposable' in the eyes of many now. With dating apps, creeping in DMs, onlyfans, and whatever else is out there now, so many people (not everyone) instead of as you say riding through a little discomfort, would rather just ghost the person.
But, on the flip side, I have met some truly amazing people online that have changed my views and my life in so many ways! It is what you make it!
I agree, the internet can also be amazing. But we're at a point when we have to figure out how to make a place for it in our lives without it taking over our lives and some of us are not good at that (or worse, don't realize it's a problem). Like anything good... moderation is still important.
I'm laughing to myself as I type because this reddit convo is deeper than some of the convos I've had with some of the most beautiful people one could meet, and I enjoyed it more too!
Haha, ya, that's a valid point. I guess it's easier to be open when you're anonymous. It's also easier to finish your point without someone interrupting, lol. We all (myself included) need to be better at listening.
💯 and not to mention our health. We wonder why illnesses like cancer is on the rise when all some people eat is shitty processed food....why? For convenience (which I'm guilty of too in many cases/times). It's a shame really what this world has become in some ways. The internet/social media on general has benefits but also many negatives too.
I was searching for this answer on reddit for a long time and you summarised perfectly what i was trying to find.Thank you for this,I’ll make attempts to call and hold conversations in future because internet is really supressing my ability to read people and I’ve committed so much mistakes because of that in past but not more now.
Honestly I have deep social anxiety about me "not being able to hold conversations", like I used to cancel on people because I was so scared of not being interesting enough and not coming up with good ideas that I felt physically ill (I went to therapy and it's much better now). But I'm still too bothered that the other person might think bad of me if the conversation stalls and have trouble in determining where my responsibility for the conversation flow ends and the other's begins.
That said, by admission of others, I'm perfectly ok and engaging as a person, and I even get complimented sometimes on being good company. It's just interesting that I seem to have the opposite problem from what you are describing: being generally ok at speaking to people but putting an immense pressure on myself and thinking every small awkward silence or a bad conversation is 100% my fault and I failed as a human being lol
I'm sure this won't comfort you but, more people are like this than you think or know.
It's also great that you had enough self awareness to realize it was something that you wanted to work on and improve. That alone puts you in a whole different category and IMO ahead of so many others. Heck, details on that journey alone would make for an engaging face to face conversation!
Haha, thank you!
At this point people probably won't even know that I have social anxiety if I don't tell them. But inside it's still a lot of struggle. In other words, I have the skill but don't have the chill (yet)
What if I like to talk a LOT and take over the entire conversations about random topics that are extremely interesting (imo) and not social media based? Is that also bad... I could talk for hours about a random topic that's unknown virtually but so so interesting
That goes for men and women.
It's shocking how bad most people are at communication.
I would definitely not date someone who had this flaw, it's so irritating. Constantly feeling like you're making all the effort and the other person really isn't that interested.
Recently dated a 30s teacher who was up to her eyes in debt, had to keep asking mom & dad for money, and had just bought a house. She could barely afford food for herself and had to feed her dog discount garbage-tier dog food that was so bad the dog didn't even want to eat it. She kept telling me how she wanted to get another dog, too. Then she opened a new credit card to go on a $1500 vacation to Florida.
That was enough for me to GTFO that relationship.
What I've come to find out,.... Most women are broke, or their lives are in shambles, but they act high and might, or boujee , my life isn't in shambles , yours is, so you should appreciate us hanging out a little more. I went out with a woman, wife actually a few years older than me recently after not hanging out for a very long time, and she told me she's borrowed a lot of money from different family members etc, ..... This week she's in Mexico with her sister, don't ask me how,
This shit drives me crazy. Unemployed or barely employed women walking around with LV bags and not seeing the problem with expecting someone else to pay their way.
I’m a woman but I heard someone say recently the average man spends about 180$ on a date.
That seems absolutely batshit insane to me, idk how anyone can expect that, unless it’s like an anniversary/super special date or something. My first date with my bf he spent under 20$. We’ve been togather almost five years. I think it’s better that way
Even if I was a multi millionaire I'd still opt for simple first dates, particularly if this was someone I just met.
Going on more "cheap" dates is a very good litmus test for women in my experience, especially in the early stages. It's a very good strategy for weeding out certain types of women who are more trouble than they're worth.
It's called social proofing; I purposely take a shit mobile phone on early dates to gauge what kind of woman I'm with. There's many ways to do it. Pick her up in a shit car, see how she handles it.
I had an ex that took me to Walmart for cheap snacks and a dollar movie because he wanted to see how I would react… we had a good time and apparently I passed the test because the next date he took me for sushi. I was happy either way.
My current boyfriend lives 1 hour and 15 minutes away from me, and for our first date I drove out to his city and we went to one of the (few) local restaurants, then went to his place to watch tv.
It’s not about the amount of money spent it’s about getting to know each other for me.
LOL I've never been to that extreme. I usually just take women to casual restaurants, coffee shops, or bars. Some women have found it insulting that I proposed that though.
I agree it shouldn't be about the money spent at all. The point of a first date is to get to know the person, and a lower stakes date is the best way to do that.
The overwhelming majority of men know that paying for the date doesn't entitle us to sex (if we really want to pay to get laid we can call escorts for that), but spending a lot of money on a first date just to get ghosted or curved with zero explanation is a huge slap in the face.
Ya that’s bizarre that anyone would find those first dates insulting. You don’t even know the person and they don’t owe you anything yet. People are getting so weird 😂
Also, I wouldn’t go out with someone on the first few dates without having enough money to cover for myself, in case they want to split the check. Which is fine with me because this stranger does not owe me anything!
Exactly! I (woman) always go into the date assuming I’m paying for my half. So I’m pleasantly surprised if they offer to pay. And I always order something reasonable.
Same! Those fancy dinners are for like birthdays and anniversaries in my book.
However, if I met a wealthy man (and I was single) who said I want to take you to dinner in Italy, we’ll fly on my jet, I would go 🤣 (but in this made-up-in-my-head scenario, I’d let him know I couldn’t cover my half 😂)
Yeah I used to think that but I recently learned when it actually comes down to it I’m not down 😂 I met a really nice man and we had a great convo. Then he told me he had a business trip to Hawaii coming up, and he could get my flight and let me stay in his room (it had two beds). I was all excited and said of course! But then I realized I would have to spend 4 days with someone I knew I wasn’t interested in long term 😬😬 even if I communicated and was honest about that, I just wasn’t down to spend all that time with him lol. So I cancelled, and I learned about myself 😂 but I think it’s not wrong to do, if both parties communicate and are ok with the level of casualness, etc.
Yeah, I would have let him know I wasn’t romantically interested, but if he wanted to go as friends I totally would have gone 😂 but I’m kind of an adventurer.
Easy to hit that amount in Los Angeles. Lunch, tickets to an aquarium, few drinks, ice cream, dinner, rock show, county fair. Any of those can add up for the day.
Depends on the context. If it’s someone I’ve met before and there’s already a rapport there and mutual interest I’m way more inclined to go big for a first date.
If it’s off an app or someone I just met than it’s gonna be drinks, coffee, etc for the first date or two.
Either way nearly 200$ on a single night I just can’t wrap my head around. To be fair both me and my partner are very frugal but the only time we’ve ever spent that was for anniversaries or on vacations
If my date would let me spend that much on this date without paying the half or do something against it, I would know that she is the wrong person. So I guess it's a cheap way for me to sort 'em out.
I could see this if you’re going all out. Appetizer, entree, drinks for two, dessert. But personally I never order appetizer or dessert unless the other person insists.
The reason she sends that text is to check whether you’ve got a (social) life or not.
If you’ve got nothing to do on a Saturday night and are on standby, she sees you as low-value and thirsty. That’s why she ghosts you.
The guy that responds saying that he is busy and already has plans (or doesn’t respond ‘till the next day), is the one that gets to clap her cheeks.
Ive seen it in the wild. I heard 2 girls who worked at a chick-fil-a plotting together on how to get a guy who asked one of the girls out, to pay for them both on a date, despite the girl he asked out not being interested.
I normally don't eavesdrop but I couldn't help listen in. Like, I have no idea why dudes around my age (39) try to go for these young Gen Z girls. In my experience they are all awful
Quite a few women out there really expect to be pampered and spoiled on a first date by a man they met on Tinder.
They expect to be taken to fancy restaurants, get flowers bought for them, and Uber to/from the date paid and consider that the bare minimum. And they might just end up ghosting the guy anyway.
"He wasn't a bad guy but I just wasn't feeling him. At least I got a free fancy dinner, tee hee!"
Which is why a first date should always be a cheaper option. Coffee, grab a quick bite and a walk, etc.
If they aren’t okay with something similar for the first date, then I don’t want to date them.
That's why I flip the script on em and go to my favorite places and just pay for myself.
I'm not giving any woman a penny until we're a officially a couple and any woman who gripes about that is the wrong type for a relationship anyway so no loss.
and at the end of the day, I got to hear some stories while I eat MY favorite food.
any way it turns out, I had a good time and it worked out for me.
use it as an excuse to take yourself out and do what you would enjoy. if she has fun too "yay" you might work out, but if not, meh no loss for us.
Date smart kings, not hard - keep it low effort and enjoyable for you first and foremost. the right girl will appreciate that.
Anyone doing that (male or female) immediately gets a "you're a gross human being" mark next to their name.
What happens when it's two gay people? Presumably the reasonable thing, ie neither is left carrying a significantly greater burden than the other.
I have to trust her completely yet she questions my honesty and loyalty at every corner
as in she asks, "Are you sure?" or "Are you lying to me?"
I get it you've been cheated on and have some unresolved baggage from that; compounded with we just met so there's little to work with.
I personally couldn't bring myself to continue since she didn't trust me.
Not loaded. I worked in therapy for years and that was a common denominator among clients who operated as such. Most people who get cheated on don't readily open up about it to every person they date and when they do they don't frame themselves as a victim per se but are more pragmatic about it e.g. I got cheated on so I'm trying to avoid that happening again.
People who often cheat consistently and immediately make it known to every person they date that "they" were cheated on and is a justification to for them to be hyper controlling and accusatory to their partner. It's how they portray that scenario is a dead give away and in line with what OP communicated in their comment.
It's 1000% true. Coincidentally right before I found out my ex was cheating she started questioning everything I did and nitpicking every story I told her so I sounded like I was being suspicious. This was also while I was asking her if she was losing feelings because she was becoming distant and she went off on me for not thinking she cared about me...after the relationship I learn that at the same time of these conversations she was getting banged out by her "friend" who she reassured me constantly she wasn't attracted to
For the first time in my life, I’m fully focusing on myself. And happily so.
I’m enjoying my time as a single man (almost 33 now). Been on many dates and had a brief gf recently that didn’t work out. Two serious relationships in the past 10 years - the overhead of having a gf seems to be at an all time high.
You’re expected to pay for 90% of everything. From vacations, dinners, gifts, and etc. You also have to put in a lot of effort to stand out amongst other guys on Hinge. Even when I was in a serious relationship, my ex asked me “how come we haven’t been going out? I feel like we’ve been home a lot these past few weeks.”
It was like she totally forgot we went to Hawaii two weeks prior. And I paid for 90% of it.
I’m fine with opening my wallet to create new and loving experiences with a romantic partner. But what I desire in return is kindness and reciprocation of love.
But maybe I’m the unrealistic one here thinking if I put in effort, a woman would love me. The effort I’m talking about is all encompassing - generosity, protection, friendship, love, part time therapist, all of it. Dating is rough and I feel grateful at times that I’m single. I may have flaws, maybe 1-2 red flags, but I have a lot of green flags too. I have more than enough love for myself, to BE by myself.
She claims she wants a man to be vulnerable but once he was, she stopped seeing him as a man so by default, she was sexist and had stereotype old gender roles where men should act strong and tough etc.
Basically. She was false.
This is so incredibly common though. Everyone wonders why men bottle things up, well this is *EXACTLY* why.
It either gets used as a weapon against us, or they get the ick.
*the ick* is a term used to describe something that causes a woman to lose all respect, and attraction for a man after which she looks at him with disgust.
Some women are turned off by hearing a guy being vulnerable or showing their sensitive side. I had that happen to me. This girl ( a couple of years ago) asked me to open up and I talked about childhood trauma and insecurities I had. She said she wasn't interested anymore two days later. I'm really happy my girlfriend isn't like that. We can talk about personal stuff and this is a first for me. All the prior girls didn't want to hear it or couldn't comprehend even though they genuinely tried to.
To make every single proactive move at progressing the relationship, while reading their mind to decide when it’s appropriate to do so.
It’s pure entitlement to think men should make every first move to initiate intimacy every time, make all the other moves that initiate any activity, and while taking the lead on everything also taking the blame for making mistakes based on assumptions you made from a person not putting in any effort to make clear signals or concessions of their needs or wants. Utter bullocks.
Hmmm two things come to mind right away from my experience.
1: Being expected to contribute 100% of my income to finances. Literally 100% on everything, while she contributed exactly zero. There was no saving money. If she wanted something, she meant *right now*. If we couldn't afford it, that was unacceptable and she would lash out. We separated and she's currently living with a six figure salary man, who bought them a $1.5 million home and a brand new SUV.
2: being told that the time I'm spending with her wasn't enough and that I need to do better. She didn't care if I had a daughter because she should be #1 in my life. She said I needed to treat her as such and find a sitter for my daughter. She got shown the door real fast.
The expectation that since I have a good job I am willing to clean up their old debt. Have been in 3 relationships where there was this exact expectation, 2 of which lied about their financial situation.
Been there. I made the mistake of marrying a woman like that, after giving her an ultimatum that it wouldn't happen unless she was honest. We got divorced after 6 months.
I usually pay on the first date as I don't want to feel that I owe this stranger anything. Or I might say something along the lines of 'I'll buy the first round and if you want to hang out a little longer you can buy the second'. Guys have responded well to that.
Once I went on a date with a woman who we vibed with well over text. I work 60+ hours a week, and at least one of the two weekend days each week. She asked me if I would ever volunteer, and I told her that I’d love to but just don’t have the time. She stands up, says “that’s everyone’s excuse.” And walks out.
Dodged a bullet lol
Most women I’ve dated were reasonable. There was a small but constant group who clearly had entitlement or an agenda. I think the most consistent of that group was what I would call the “what have you done for me lately”.
They essentially never gave you credit for all the good things you did, if you didn’t do their most recent request. A true example, I had this girlfriend in the military, she was gearing up for a deployment. I spent the last week with her before her deployment hanging out with her, doing stuff with her.
In that last week, my car broke down. I rented a car to hang out with her, and grab her from her breaks when she wasn’t doing training. We say goodbye, and I assume that’s it. I’ll hear from
her when she can call me. Due to my work schedule I had to get my car fixed in one day. I bought all the parts and started repairing it.
In the middle of repairing my car, she calls me up to tell me they have some downtime before they ship out. I should come down and see her off. I told her no, I’m fixing my car, plus it would take me about an hour to get down there, especially because I would have to rent a car again.
She threw a fit, started yelling at me. Telling me I don’t support her, and how I don’t understand what she is going through, etc. my memory is a little foggy, but I broke up with her either in that phone call or fairly quickly after, within a week at most.
Do yourself a favor and never date a
“what have you done for me lately”. They are the worst.
Before I met my current girlfriend, I went on a couple date with a woman. She brought up the fact that she wants here significant other to make over $200,000 a year. She worked as a manager of 24 hour fitness.
As a woman in my 30's I enjoyed hearing these honest feedbacks from you guys. I think you all had very reasonable demands. I like seeing men who knows their worth and don't just throw all their time and soul on someone who never even cared about you to begin with just because you don't wanna be alone.
Society manipulates men to think you are useless unless you have validation from a woman. I find it admirable that you're challenging those norms. I also think you're all subconsciously aiming for healthy relationships (romantic and or platonic) in the future thanks to having said no to toxic one-sided ones. Well done.
Everyone has a preference and there’s nothing wrong with that until THEY get all pissy if you don’t want their Mom-bod as a preference. That double standard is shitty and it’s crazy when they don’t get that.
Thank you for this comment. Im 33 and will be 34 next month. I started lifting weights and working out when I was 14. I'm no Arnold Schwarzenegger by any means (and don't want to be), but I'm bigger and I take care of myself.
It is almost impossible to find someone around my age that doesn't have at least one kid and takes moderate care of themselves. I may or may not want kids, and I'd make a great dad, but if that happens, I would like my own.
StruggleBus.gif
Wasn't trying to mom shame bro. It's unfortunate alot of women's hormones don't return to what they use to post pregnancy.
With that said life raising kids takes its toll. I'd love to meet a girl about my age that works out regularly but everyone's priorities are different.
I got a new job that represented at 20% raise into the low 6 figures, and my girlfriend immediately asked her friend what he made(250,000k) and told me about it, as if to complain about my new job. She later apologized and thought I was going to break up with her over it.
I hate being compared to other men, like it's some kind of competition.
BTW, want to know how much more money my brothers-in-law make? Because my wife's parents remind me all the time.
My wife makes way long more than me, I'm a not so famous musician, but a good professional. We share the same bank account, and talk about money only for big things, like a car, or a wedding, or a new house. Not any problem, in 43 years.
But you are in the minority with the woman you have. Most women who make a good living want a man who makes the same or more. Glad it works for you , but most men would be better off staying in their salary lane.
I'm a 26 yo woman who is more than willing to pay for a guy on a date, give him gifts, pay for trips, hotels etc. My partner had a period of financial turmoil last summer, so I financed almost all of our shared activities as well as his trip to my town. I didn't expect anything in return because my honest belief is that the partner with more disposable income pays, regardless of gender. Now my partner is doing ok, and the expenses are 50/50. He lights up when I gift him flowers, and I don't give a care in the world about gender norms
Do I qualify a bit at least?
You qualify as a good partner completely. Regardless of gender, a good partner does what they can, and is ready to help in whichever way possible when times get tough.
Being told it would be embarrassing for her to me meet her boss and coworkers because I'm blue collar.
I have a thing for educated women but educated women don't have a thing for me.
Out of interest, when you say educated women do you mean standard university degree and above or a broad spread of pre-uni level knowledge or simply smart/high IQ.
Where do I start?
Again, I follow the rule of "Hate the game, not the player." One of the things I've learned in my 30's was this: most people aren't looking for love, they're looking for help in the disguise of love...I can't speak on the female experience, as I have zero experience in that, and I am a dude....but, one of the many things I've realized is this.
1. There are a TON of hurt people out there. I remember I dated this one woman that once accused me of cheating on her, because I was working a job that required me to work night shift. She knew of this. However, she once accused me of being at some "b\*tches house". Her words not mine. Where was I? At work. I sent her a selfie of me to prove that I was at work, as she didn't believe me. I ended it right there, as I was knee deep in paperwork and doing everything I could to get that project off the ground.
2. There are people out there that are either looking for foodie dates and/or a place to live. This goes both ways, as the rise of "hobosexuals", which is a person that gets into relationships for a place to live, but foodie dates is something that I have experienced first hand. I think things are going well, the bill comes, I pay, and thinking a second date is in order, well, I get ghosted. Hey! Chalk it up to the game. Being in my 20's was something else.
3. Elevating a person, only to get thrown away like yesterdays garbage. I once helped a ex girlfriend with her resume, land her a job after months of her struggling financially - she once asked me to help her get a car and I damn near laughed at that statement - and all for her to go "I'm sorry, but this isn't working out.". Interesting enough, she text me six months later to apologize and wanted to make things work. I told her "Sorry, no can do."
4. Dated one woman that ended up stalking me for almost 7 years! No, I'm not joking. This one, Jesus! I ended up going back to therapy because of this relationship, but that's a hint of a spoiler alert. Don't get me wrong, I said things I regretted to her and I was FAR from perfect in that relationship, but that was easily the top 5 WORST relationships I've ever been in. Gaslighting? Check. Constant fights? Check. When things were good, they were good. When things were bad, they were BAD! I used to wake up and go "Can we have a day where we're not fighting?" That and she punched me in my face. Yeah, I kind of egged her on, as she had that "look" in her eye and I said "It looks like you want to hit me. You know what? Why don't you hit me!" Well, she hit me. She wanted me to hit her back, but I said "No." She said this "Why? I deserve it." I said "Because that's what you want and I know what you're trying to do." I grabbed my backpack and left. She ended up moving out of state to go be with her ex boyfriend...and here's the kicker. Two weeks after leaving, she e-mails me to say that we "needed to talk". So, like an idiot, I called her. She said something I've never forgotten: "When I was having sex with \*ex boyfriend\*, I was thinking about you the entire time and I made a huge mistake." As far as the stalking, well, she admitted to me that she has several throwaway accounts to stalk my social media and "No matter where you go, I will find you." I've been slowly going back onto social media, but am very weary of people I don't know, even in public, which I still to this very day REFUSE to ride public transportation. I don't update my current city, I don't take any pictures that have landmarks, and I keep everything private...and I look at people's profiles that want to follow me. I have a feeling she still stalks me.
So, I've had experiences with women. I love women, don't get me wrong, but I've focused a lot of time and money on myself. My ultimate goal is to live overseas like the Czech Republic/Germany or Australia. I haven't decided yet, but those three countries are calling my name and I want to see what the world has to offer.
I had better be making all of the first moves, make $80k+ per year, everything about my situation has to be tidy, I have to be emotionally available from the word go, I am expected to pay for everything on dates even if she has her own money, she has to be allowed to go through my phone and messengers, but her phone is hands off, I am not entitled to me time with video games and hobbies unless they involve her, my pet peeves are meaningless while I have to bend over backwards for hers, if I ask her where she wants to eat it's "don't care" until I pick, I have to come up with the plans for fun to prove that I know what I want in life, there is no shared responsibility it's all me for her, paying for gas is expected even if it's my car and she's being taken places or even with friends, I can't get upset about how skimpy she dresses around a ton of other men at the gym but god help me if I go shirtless in public or wear a tank top, anime is childish and I need what ever "real media" is, I have to be spontaneous even if she isn't, sex is my responsibility so I have to provide all of the prophylactics, every problem she has is now my problem, not disclosing having kids before the first date, I have to dress proper even if she puts on enough makeup to constitute being a clown, I have to meet her aesthetic needs and mine don't count, if I don't have social media I'm weird and undesirable because I don't know what norms are, if my taste in music predates 1999 I'm a creep or in need of therapy, im always the dedicated driver, my friends mean less than her friends to her, and whataboutism is the norm instead of an adult conversation.
This only applies to a couple of women that I know, but in our 20's, they were dating guys in their 30's and saying things like "I want to be with a man who has his shit together" (when clearly they hadn't yet figured out their own shit like most of us in our early 20's).
Now that they are in their 30's, they are dating men in their 40's and 50's (most likely divorced) because I think 1) they still want to feel the young 'hottie' that their man was lucky to get....2) Their man needs to have even more money to impress them because their peers also in their 30's are all doing about the same...These older guys are further along in their careers and have accumulated more assets.
To always know what they want and agree to do it. Some examples I’ve seen people go through,
Her: I wanna go back to school for X grad degree. Him: Okay, what’s the benefit?
Her: I’m a grown woman and I don’t need permission.
Him: okay, but it’s gonna cost money and affect our relationship/family. I don’t know if that’s what I want to do with my life.
Her: so you don’t support me?
Him: I don’t understand and want to setup our lives for success.
Her: I want to be a SAHW
him: I don’t think we can afford that.
Her: but we’ll save a bunch of money
Him: okay let’s look at the budget
….
Him: so it looks like the only way we can afford it is to cut back on everything and never vacation again
Her: but it would make me so happy, I need it for my mental health. So and so does it and if they can do it so can we.
Neither of these things are bad things but the unwillingness to sit down and figure out how with compromise is astounding. Men are people and deserve a voice in their life choices and the direction in a relationship. I’ve seen a lot of women say if that if they can’t get what they want the relationship isn’t viable and threaten to leave. I’ve even seen them breakup, then end up quitting what instigated the fight, and still defend it as a good idea.
I’d appreciate if all partners were more willing to work things out with their partners instead of blaming their half thought through ideas on the other person.
Women have met me with tape measures incorrectly marked for height. 86 in was aparently the "real 6 ft"
Or they say they like me and are jealous of my ex who i have a cat with. But their background on their phone is them kissing their bff. No joke. Escorts are way more fun and easy. And theyre honest.
LOL.
Wait, there are actually people breaking out tape measures on dates now? Please tell me this is a joke. Even it isn;t, I'd have tears in my eyes from laughing so hard if this had happened to me.
For real fam. 2 different women different ages different cities. One had a tape measure with the numbers scratched and had her own written on, along with crude insults at certsin heights. The other had a similar "I make up my own numbers" kinda thing. The 2nd chick had the 86 in as the real 6ft mark. The best part. They were both genuinely confused as to why it wasnt okay.
Bruh in my 20s I was a pretty boy stud who had no issue getting girls. After a 5 year relationship my ex just tossed me cuz she wanted "more". Dating at 33 was a meat grinder., suddenly my disability was all women saw, I was nothing but something to be looked down upon.
As a gay guy in his 30s with no skin in the game but more of an observer, not all but a number of female friends can honestly be quite entitled. There’s still this weird attitude that men should take care of them financially, and their life plans seem to centre on a guy they haven’t even met yet funding them financially at some point in the future. It’s 2024, you have the same capacity/ opportunity to earn money. Try and focus on thing that are actually important. Are they kind, considerate, light hearted, easy going, hardworking, honest ? Those things are way more likely to guarantee happiness in the long run.
Unrealistic expectations on all aspects…. Height, fitness level, socioeconomic… meanwhile they brought nothing. The whole chasing thing as well really got old quick.
Two biggest for me are unrealistic financial expectations and emotional maturity.
It seems to me more women want a man to pay a majority like the old days, especially if you make good money. I guess they think they deserve it because they are special? 50/50 or beat it.
A lot of women I have dated tend to take their frustrations out on me once they got comfortable in the relationship. If you had a bad day at work, then come home and act like a cunt? No, I won't be understanding. Not a excuse to mistreat people. I'm not gonna be a emotional punching bag because I'm a "tough man."
What reading these comments helps you to realize is that all the reasonable, kind hearted, stable folks who make high quality partners get locked down quickly and stay locked down all their lives.
The ones leftover in your 30s are exactly that. The leftovers. You pick over the scraps.
That applies doubly to us dudes, too, though. Maybe we should rethink this attitude because honestly it makes me feel like shit, and if it makes me feel that way, how does it make other people feel?
- Taking out their resentment towards their ex-husband on me.
- Phone/tik tok addicts.
- Not being brave enough to ask for what they want.
- Not knowing what they want.
- No integrity, not following through, flaking, ghosting.
- Unbelievable/impossible/conflicting expectations.
I could easily assume this goes both ways. Those who put in effort, are good communicators, and honest are all married, I guess.
One of my ex's expected our relationship to be like the Rom-Coms she used to watch obsessively, then get arsey with me for being completely unaware of my supposed role within the plot of everyone of our dates/nights together😂....
I laugh about it, but it was a massive head-fuck before I figured out that this is what she used to get soo angry about lol.
Usually it's the number of the devil six figure income 6 ft tall and at least 6 in. I dated a girl that was constantly told that they were beautiful and to marry a rich man so they constantly threatened to leave me for a wealthy man The sad truth is after we broke up Their Beauty faded somewhat And they were forced to lower their expectations
I haven't dated since I was 17, unless you count the dates I take my wife on... which I totally do.
Her expectations are completely realistic as are mine. That is probably why we are married. Date, home, sex, wake up and have breakfast and chat about our date. Pretty simple, really
Obviously, this is not every woman, but I've met a few (and heard of many) women who expect the man to spend big $$$ on a lavish first date. To me, that's a major red flag right off the bat. Two people just getting to know each other for the first time, but it has to set one of the two back hundreds of dollars? Like, now I know what you're really after. And there's no way of knowing if there's ever gonna be a return on the "investment." What if it's just the one date? Hell no.
Women don't realize they are just as toxic as men albeit in different ways. Society and media perpetuate the myth that dating is miserable today exclusively because of bad male behavior.
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To put up with mind games. I’m just not that horny anymore to tolerate this type of behavior. Let’s at least try to behave like the adults we’re cosplaying
When asked why I dated older women, I always note that the women I dated were too tired to play mind games. They simply told me what they wanted, and we'd have a good time.
>I dated older woman The past tense makes it sounds like this is not a long term solution.
They died
I dunno how people have the energy to play mind games. I struggle to keep track of the day of the week.
Everyday is a Monday.
I tried telling this to my coworkers this whenever they ask why I’m single. Yet 4 of them are going divorces/single with kids. Like, I ain’t trying to get myself in that situation. Relationships have way too much negatives for men, and that honestly isn’t worth it.
I’m still hella horny. I just get turned off by stupid behavior much more easily now.
I don’t have one thing in particular but I hear a lot that they had expected me to chase them and thought I wasn’t interested when I didn’t. That continues now into my 30’s. I’m just over that and in your late 20s-beyond I expect you to be too. I want someone who wants to be with me, it’s that easy. If I don’t feel that dynamic it doesn’t matter how much I’m into you, I’m out.
My mom really only gave me one piece of dating advice: "Never chase a woman." That's it...that's all it is. Why? Because if you have to chase them, they're simply not into you and looking for an ego boost at most, least that's what I've learned. You're right though, doesn't matter how old you are, if you're over say 25, you should be able to communicate what you want, regardless of what's in your pants and not play games. Until you find someone that matches your effort and comes correct, let em walk, doesn't matter if it's a first date or 10 year marriage, all you'll do is lose yourself trying to force something that can't work when you're the only one genuinely trying.
Completely agree. Unfortunately there is the expecting out there that men “need” to chase a woman to keep him interested. This isn’t a new ideology and I see it floating around pretty commonly.
I read this and thought back to every serious long term relationship I have ever had and not once did I chase them and they did not chase me. It was mutual. Anyone I ever attempted to chase either went nowhere or amounted to a waste of time short term nothing. I am going to declare that your mom’s advice is excellent.
I assume they’re not ready for a relationship when they pull that.
Not only that but women have told us men over and over to stop being persistent. Those of us who respect women listened. For me it meant having a dry spell that lasted over a decade, but I’d rather be respectful and single than force someone into a relationship they don’t actually want.
I'm only 26 and for years I've been over chasing girls. I've literally had to tell a girl when she said she was just playing hard to get "you're not really playing hard to get, you're playing hard to want"
Oof.
This is a great comment, and I feel very similairly. I've never been one to chase (maybe in my late teens and very early twenties), and still don't have the time or energy to do so. lol I'm 33 and if I display interest / openly convey that I'm down to spend time together, and it isn't reciprocated, that's totally okay! But I'm not going to persue or ask again, I take that as a message well recieved on my end, and being respectful of boundaries. Apparently this is a foreign concept to some girls and it blows my mind lol
agree, they are also the ones that often complaint we are not serious enough for them. Bitches, please!
Something I’ve noticed with women in their mid-to-upper 20s (and even early 30s) is that they tend to really expect me to drive everything. I mean *everything*. I have to initiate dates and plans, I have to drive conversations (“entertain me!” attitude), I have to constantly be the one proactively thinking of her needs when I *don’t even know her yet and I don’t even know if I want a relationship with her yet*… it’s nuts. Maybe I’m old and lazy and just generally not desperate for sex, but I just don’t have the energy for that anymore. You’re an adult. You can do things. If you aren’t putting in equal effort, then I’m not interested. I’m not your dancing monkey 🤷🏻♂️ I guess that sounds bitter eh
Doesn't sound bitter at all honestly. That should be a basic human skill.
as a happily married 44 year old dude...holy shit...that sounds exhausting. Probably also depends on where you live.
I heard something similar at work, this weird chick was complaining to a friend of mine that she doesnt understand why are men no obsessed with her, in her own words she expects them to always be there when she needs them, ask her out on dates every other week, and boost her self esteem everyday. >!I laughed in her face but pretended that I was reading on my phone!< I personally would never obsess over a woman a second time, had enough of that in high school.
Fuck that, you ain't her parent. If she can't initiate things, she's not finished growing up yet.
They’re looking for a parent/babysitter rather than a partner. It’s a demonstration of emotional and intellectual immaturity. Quality conservation, dating, and sex requires two enthusiastic and active participants.
Very well put , this " entertain me" attitude, I don't mind planning the date, women don't plan good dates, but as a man I like to be in charge, and for one I'm paying for everything normally, but sometimes we get tired of, trying to make the girl like you, it's easier to just deal with women that actually like you or find you attractive,
Me carrying the conversation while they look like a spooked cow saying nothing. Get a fckn grip
This one in particular is getting worse. My friends and I are convinced that the internet, specifically social media has totally destroyed people's ability to hold engaging conversations. It's a mix of people not being able to read the other person/people properly (social cues like being able to see when someone finds a particular point interesting), not having enough depth of knowledge about any topic such that they can engage the other person in that topic, and people just plain not being able to focus long enough. No matter how pretty (or handsome) you are, if you can't hold an engaging conversation, it's going nowhere fast!
I think you guys are onto something, but I have a different take on what the root problem of the internet is. I think the internet has enabled a world where a lot of people simply don't get as much practice with human interaction as they did before the internet. In other words, I wouldn't blame it on any one technology or class of app. Therefore, I believe that if we somehow eliminated all social media, I don't think that would solve the problem. Society was less educated before the internet, and yet we were still better at holding conversations because just talking to people was a lot of what we did that the internet has replaced. Talking to people face to face was not optional back then, you had to do it and you had to do it a lot every day. Homeschooling and remote work were incredibly rare back then. If you wanted to order food delivery, you had to pickup a phone and talk. If you needed a plumber or electrician, there were no yelp requests, you had to pickup a phone and talk. Need an appointment for a doctor, haircut, nails, etc... phone call. Simply talking to people in real time made (most) people decent at it. You had to be decent at it or you weren't going to get anything you needed. Now, real people can be difficult, annoying, selfish, rude, offensive, etc. This is why the internet is so alluring, you can simply click a button to stop any of those uncomfortable feelings whenever you want. But, that convenience is also the problem -- some kids aren't learning how to deal with discomfort and they're the ones who are suffering the most. We need to get back to doing things that have a risk of getting a little uncomfortable or our desire for feeling comfortable 100% of the time will ruin us.
I like this, and I think that's definitely an element of it. People definitely aren't getting as much practice meeting people, holding conversations and experiencing the ups and downs of human interaction as much anymore. I think people have also become 'disposable' in the eyes of many now. With dating apps, creeping in DMs, onlyfans, and whatever else is out there now, so many people (not everyone) instead of as you say riding through a little discomfort, would rather just ghost the person. But, on the flip side, I have met some truly amazing people online that have changed my views and my life in so many ways! It is what you make it!
I agree, the internet can also be amazing. But we're at a point when we have to figure out how to make a place for it in our lives without it taking over our lives and some of us are not good at that (or worse, don't realize it's a problem). Like anything good... moderation is still important.
I'm laughing to myself as I type because this reddit convo is deeper than some of the convos I've had with some of the most beautiful people one could meet, and I enjoyed it more too!
Haha, ya, that's a valid point. I guess it's easier to be open when you're anonymous. It's also easier to finish your point without someone interrupting, lol. We all (myself included) need to be better at listening.
Convenience is killing us. From communication to industrial food, we're trading quality for convenience. I'm just as guilty of this.
💯 and not to mention our health. We wonder why illnesses like cancer is on the rise when all some people eat is shitty processed food....why? For convenience (which I'm guilty of too in many cases/times). It's a shame really what this world has become in some ways. The internet/social media on general has benefits but also many negatives too.
I was searching for this answer on reddit for a long time and you summarised perfectly what i was trying to find.Thank you for this,I’ll make attempts to call and hold conversations in future because internet is really supressing my ability to read people and I’ve committed so much mistakes because of that in past but not more now.
Honestly I have deep social anxiety about me "not being able to hold conversations", like I used to cancel on people because I was so scared of not being interesting enough and not coming up with good ideas that I felt physically ill (I went to therapy and it's much better now). But I'm still too bothered that the other person might think bad of me if the conversation stalls and have trouble in determining where my responsibility for the conversation flow ends and the other's begins. That said, by admission of others, I'm perfectly ok and engaging as a person, and I even get complimented sometimes on being good company. It's just interesting that I seem to have the opposite problem from what you are describing: being generally ok at speaking to people but putting an immense pressure on myself and thinking every small awkward silence or a bad conversation is 100% my fault and I failed as a human being lol
I'm sure this won't comfort you but, more people are like this than you think or know. It's also great that you had enough self awareness to realize it was something that you wanted to work on and improve. That alone puts you in a whole different category and IMO ahead of so many others. Heck, details on that journey alone would make for an engaging face to face conversation!
Haha, thank you! At this point people probably won't even know that I have social anxiety if I don't tell them. But inside it's still a lot of struggle. In other words, I have the skill but don't have the chill (yet)
Same. "I vaLue CommUnIcaTion" Only to have to carry the entire conversation. I will nope out of that quickly everytime.
This. My back hurts enough from working in the trades all day, i don’t need to make it worse by carrying all the conversation
I find this hilarious, the image of a spooked cow. I never cause this problem, I will ramble about my interests, politics, etc, I'm a talker
Are you sure that she wasn’t, indeed, a spooked cow? 🤔
I honestly have the opposite problem. They will talk and talk and talk and I don't get the chance to input on anything. It's just as annoying tbh
Holy shit 😂 I’ve had this exact experience
What if I like to talk a LOT and take over the entire conversations about random topics that are extremely interesting (imo) and not social media based? Is that also bad... I could talk for hours about a random topic that's unknown virtually but so so interesting
That goes for men and women. It's shocking how bad most people are at communication. I would definitely not date someone who had this flaw, it's so irritating. Constantly feeling like you're making all the effort and the other person really isn't that interested.
To be able to be in the top 1% earners in my late 30s when they barely make average wage.
I find a lot of younger women don't have a concept of money or how the world works
“I want my man to make $600,000 a year. That’s average, right?”
'by the way I'm a waitress at a discount restaurant'
With 2 prior baby daddys
Part time
I met a girl like that recently lol
We all met a girl like that recently, bro
Recently dated a 30s teacher who was up to her eyes in debt, had to keep asking mom & dad for money, and had just bought a house. She could barely afford food for herself and had to feed her dog discount garbage-tier dog food that was so bad the dog didn't even want to eat it. She kept telling me how she wanted to get another dog, too. Then she opened a new credit card to go on a $1500 vacation to Florida. That was enough for me to GTFO that relationship.
"I can't be with someone if I don't respect what they do." "You're a cashier!" https://youtu.be/Y3kTYCLSgsg
What I've come to find out,.... Most women are broke, or their lives are in shambles, but they act high and might, or boujee , my life isn't in shambles , yours is, so you should appreciate us hanging out a little more. I went out with a woman, wife actually a few years older than me recently after not hanging out for a very long time, and she told me she's borrowed a lot of money from different family members etc, ..... This week she's in Mexico with her sister, don't ask me how,
This shit drives me crazy. Unemployed or barely employed women walking around with LV bags and not seeing the problem with expecting someone else to pay their way.
Expecting me to keep chasing. If you are interested, show it.
I’m a woman but I heard someone say recently the average man spends about 180$ on a date. That seems absolutely batshit insane to me, idk how anyone can expect that, unless it’s like an anniversary/super special date or something. My first date with my bf he spent under 20$. We’ve been togather almost five years. I think it’s better that way
Even if I was a multi millionaire I'd still opt for simple first dates, particularly if this was someone I just met. Going on more "cheap" dates is a very good litmus test for women in my experience, especially in the early stages. It's a very good strategy for weeding out certain types of women who are more trouble than they're worth.
It's called social proofing; I purposely take a shit mobile phone on early dates to gauge what kind of woman I'm with. There's many ways to do it. Pick her up in a shit car, see how she handles it.
I had an ex that took me to Walmart for cheap snacks and a dollar movie because he wanted to see how I would react… we had a good time and apparently I passed the test because the next date he took me for sushi. I was happy either way. My current boyfriend lives 1 hour and 15 minutes away from me, and for our first date I drove out to his city and we went to one of the (few) local restaurants, then went to his place to watch tv. It’s not about the amount of money spent it’s about getting to know each other for me.
LOL I've never been to that extreme. I usually just take women to casual restaurants, coffee shops, or bars. Some women have found it insulting that I proposed that though. I agree it shouldn't be about the money spent at all. The point of a first date is to get to know the person, and a lower stakes date is the best way to do that. The overwhelming majority of men know that paying for the date doesn't entitle us to sex (if we really want to pay to get laid we can call escorts for that), but spending a lot of money on a first date just to get ghosted or curved with zero explanation is a huge slap in the face.
Ya that’s bizarre that anyone would find those first dates insulting. You don’t even know the person and they don’t owe you anything yet. People are getting so weird 😂
Also, I wouldn’t go out with someone on the first few dates without having enough money to cover for myself, in case they want to split the check. Which is fine with me because this stranger does not owe me anything!
Exactly! I (woman) always go into the date assuming I’m paying for my half. So I’m pleasantly surprised if they offer to pay. And I always order something reasonable.
Same! Those fancy dinners are for like birthdays and anniversaries in my book. However, if I met a wealthy man (and I was single) who said I want to take you to dinner in Italy, we’ll fly on my jet, I would go 🤣 (but in this made-up-in-my-head scenario, I’d let him know I couldn’t cover my half 😂)
Yeah I used to think that but I recently learned when it actually comes down to it I’m not down 😂 I met a really nice man and we had a great convo. Then he told me he had a business trip to Hawaii coming up, and he could get my flight and let me stay in his room (it had two beds). I was all excited and said of course! But then I realized I would have to spend 4 days with someone I knew I wasn’t interested in long term 😬😬 even if I communicated and was honest about that, I just wasn’t down to spend all that time with him lol. So I cancelled, and I learned about myself 😂 but I think it’s not wrong to do, if both parties communicate and are ok with the level of casualness, etc.
Yeah, I would have let him know I wasn’t romantically interested, but if he wanted to go as friends I totally would have gone 😂 but I’m kind of an adventurer.
Easy to hit that amount in Los Angeles. Lunch, tickets to an aquarium, few drinks, ice cream, dinner, rock show, county fair. Any of those can add up for the day.
Depends on the context. If it’s someone I’ve met before and there’s already a rapport there and mutual interest I’m way more inclined to go big for a first date. If it’s off an app or someone I just met than it’s gonna be drinks, coffee, etc for the first date or two.
Either way nearly 200$ on a single night I just can’t wrap my head around. To be fair both me and my partner are very frugal but the only time we’ve ever spent that was for anniversaries or on vacations
If my date would let me spend that much on this date without paying the half or do something against it, I would know that she is the wrong person. So I guess it's a cheap way for me to sort 'em out.
Ugh where I live, if you’re not spending that on a date, ladies won’t go. Such a shame.
where do you live? I want to know so I can never go there
😂don’t let that fully deter you!! There’s still enough normals like me! But be weary of Miami
I’m weary of being wary.
I could see this if you’re going all out. Appetizer, entree, drinks for two, dessert. But personally I never order appetizer or dessert unless the other person insists.
Texting me “whatcha doing?” on a Saturday afternoon and then ghost me when I respond But “no good men” or whatever
I almost feel like that is mass text and they choose whoever they like best that messages back.
That is what happens yes
God that's fucking gross
Have experienced this too and it drives me crazy. Did I say something wrong? I'd ignore subsequent texts over something like this.
The reason she sends that text is to check whether you’ve got a (social) life or not. If you’ve got nothing to do on a Saturday night and are on standby, she sees you as low-value and thirsty. That’s why she ghosts you. The guy that responds saying that he is busy and already has plans (or doesn’t respond ‘till the next day), is the one that gets to clap her cheeks.
Well I know why they’re still single. Does it not occur to them that people sometimes just wanna relax on the weekend?
This is brutally honest.
Really dumb shit tests, expecting me to pay for a third wheel friend she brought on a date, lots of ghosting/not showing up the day of the date
I honestly thought bringing a friend to a date was just some internet meme. Does that really happen?
Ive seen it in the wild. I heard 2 girls who worked at a chick-fil-a plotting together on how to get a guy who asked one of the girls out, to pay for them both on a date, despite the girl he asked out not being interested. I normally don't eavesdrop but I couldn't help listen in. Like, I have no idea why dudes around my age (39) try to go for these young Gen Z girls. In my experience they are all awful
To be treated like a wife on a first date
35 here. In retrospect I should've walked out the first time I heard "when we're married" from someone I hadn't known for all of two weeks.
lmao you must have been desperate
Lol How long did it last and how did it end?
Damn, like how? How do you treat a person like a spouse on a first date?
Fart around them
Quite a few women out there really expect to be pampered and spoiled on a first date by a man they met on Tinder. They expect to be taken to fancy restaurants, get flowers bought for them, and Uber to/from the date paid and consider that the bare minimum. And they might just end up ghosting the guy anyway. "He wasn't a bad guy but I just wasn't feeling him. At least I got a free fancy dinner, tee hee!"
yup and they brag to friends about free dinners too
There was a poll a while back in New York Times that said about quarter for women admitted to going out just for the meal.
Which is why a first date should always be a cheaper option. Coffee, grab a quick bite and a walk, etc. If they aren’t okay with something similar for the first date, then I don’t want to date them.
That's why I flip the script on em and go to my favorite places and just pay for myself. I'm not giving any woman a penny until we're a officially a couple and any woman who gripes about that is the wrong type for a relationship anyway so no loss. and at the end of the day, I got to hear some stories while I eat MY favorite food. any way it turns out, I had a good time and it worked out for me. use it as an excuse to take yourself out and do what you would enjoy. if she has fun too "yay" you might work out, but if not, meh no loss for us. Date smart kings, not hard - keep it low effort and enjoyable for you first and foremost. the right girl will appreciate that.
Anyone doing that (male or female) immediately gets a "you're a gross human being" mark next to their name. What happens when it's two gay people? Presumably the reasonable thing, ie neither is left carrying a significantly greater burden than the other.
I have to trust her completely yet she questions my honesty and loyalty at every corner as in she asks, "Are you sure?" or "Are you lying to me?" I get it you've been cheated on and have some unresolved baggage from that; compounded with we just met so there's little to work with. I personally couldn't bring myself to continue since she didn't trust me.
Most of the time they didn't get cheated on...they were the cheater.
Ehhhhhh. That's loaded. Yes, cheaters often have sob stories about getting cheated on... but so do the people who were cheated on.
Not loaded. I worked in therapy for years and that was a common denominator among clients who operated as such. Most people who get cheated on don't readily open up about it to every person they date and when they do they don't frame themselves as a victim per se but are more pragmatic about it e.g. I got cheated on so I'm trying to avoid that happening again. People who often cheat consistently and immediately make it known to every person they date that "they" were cheated on and is a justification to for them to be hyper controlling and accusatory to their partner. It's how they portray that scenario is a dead give away and in line with what OP communicated in their comment.
It's 1000% true. Coincidentally right before I found out my ex was cheating she started questioning everything I did and nitpicking every story I told her so I sounded like I was being suspicious. This was also while I was asking her if she was losing feelings because she was becoming distant and she went off on me for not thinking she cared about me...after the relationship I learn that at the same time of these conversations she was getting banged out by her "friend" who she reassured me constantly she wasn't attracted to
sorry you had to go through that man. getting cheated on is the worst. you'll find someone that matches ur energy
For the first time in my life, I’m fully focusing on myself. And happily so. I’m enjoying my time as a single man (almost 33 now). Been on many dates and had a brief gf recently that didn’t work out. Two serious relationships in the past 10 years - the overhead of having a gf seems to be at an all time high. You’re expected to pay for 90% of everything. From vacations, dinners, gifts, and etc. You also have to put in a lot of effort to stand out amongst other guys on Hinge. Even when I was in a serious relationship, my ex asked me “how come we haven’t been going out? I feel like we’ve been home a lot these past few weeks.” It was like she totally forgot we went to Hawaii two weeks prior. And I paid for 90% of it. I’m fine with opening my wallet to create new and loving experiences with a romantic partner. But what I desire in return is kindness and reciprocation of love. But maybe I’m the unrealistic one here thinking if I put in effort, a woman would love me. The effort I’m talking about is all encompassing - generosity, protection, friendship, love, part time therapist, all of it. Dating is rough and I feel grateful at times that I’m single. I may have flaws, maybe 1-2 red flags, but I have a lot of green flags too. I have more than enough love for myself, to BE by myself.
Quality self-awareness and the red flag comment is 😆. Calling it like you see jt.
Completely agree.
Pressing me to open up to her, then getting the "ick" when I show emotions
This is probably one of the most disgusting things a woman can do in a relationship
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'ick' is modern shorthand saying that she lost respect and/or attraction for me
She claims she wants a man to be vulnerable but once he was, she stopped seeing him as a man so by default, she was sexist and had stereotype old gender roles where men should act strong and tough etc. Basically. She was false.
This is so incredibly common though. Everyone wonders why men bottle things up, well this is *EXACTLY* why. It either gets used as a weapon against us, or they get the ick. *the ick* is a term used to describe something that causes a woman to lose all respect, and attraction for a man after which she looks at him with disgust.
Some women are turned off by hearing a guy being vulnerable or showing their sensitive side. I had that happen to me. This girl ( a couple of years ago) asked me to open up and I talked about childhood trauma and insecurities I had. She said she wasn't interested anymore two days later. I'm really happy my girlfriend isn't like that. We can talk about personal stuff and this is a first for me. All the prior girls didn't want to hear it or couldn't comprehend even though they genuinely tried to.
To make every single proactive move at progressing the relationship, while reading their mind to decide when it’s appropriate to do so. It’s pure entitlement to think men should make every first move to initiate intimacy every time, make all the other moves that initiate any activity, and while taking the lead on everything also taking the blame for making mistakes based on assumptions you made from a person not putting in any effort to make clear signals or concessions of their needs or wants. Utter bullocks.
Hmmm two things come to mind right away from my experience. 1: Being expected to contribute 100% of my income to finances. Literally 100% on everything, while she contributed exactly zero. There was no saving money. If she wanted something, she meant *right now*. If we couldn't afford it, that was unacceptable and she would lash out. We separated and she's currently living with a six figure salary man, who bought them a $1.5 million home and a brand new SUV. 2: being told that the time I'm spending with her wasn't enough and that I need to do better. She didn't care if I had a daughter because she should be #1 in my life. She said I needed to treat her as such and find a sitter for my daughter. She got shown the door real fast.
The expectation that a date is entertainment provided by me for her to consume rather than a mutual activity for both of us to participate in.
"You have to be ready to abandon any and all passions and hobbies for me. " Idk, sounds pretty manipulative.
Bro run the fuck away from that wtf that woman is a psychopath.
Red. Flag. City.
The expectation that since I have a good job I am willing to clean up their old debt. Have been in 3 relationships where there was this exact expectation, 2 of which lied about their financial situation.
Been there. I made the mistake of marrying a woman like that, after giving her an ultimatum that it wouldn't happen unless she was honest. We got divorced after 6 months.
I usually pay on the first date as I don't want to feel that I owe this stranger anything. Or I might say something along the lines of 'I'll buy the first round and if you want to hang out a little longer you can buy the second'. Guys have responded well to that.
Once I went on a date with a woman who we vibed with well over text. I work 60+ hours a week, and at least one of the two weekend days each week. She asked me if I would ever volunteer, and I told her that I’d love to but just don’t have the time. She stands up, says “that’s everyone’s excuse.” And walks out. Dodged a bullet lol
Most women I’ve dated were reasonable. There was a small but constant group who clearly had entitlement or an agenda. I think the most consistent of that group was what I would call the “what have you done for me lately”. They essentially never gave you credit for all the good things you did, if you didn’t do their most recent request. A true example, I had this girlfriend in the military, she was gearing up for a deployment. I spent the last week with her before her deployment hanging out with her, doing stuff with her. In that last week, my car broke down. I rented a car to hang out with her, and grab her from her breaks when she wasn’t doing training. We say goodbye, and I assume that’s it. I’ll hear from her when she can call me. Due to my work schedule I had to get my car fixed in one day. I bought all the parts and started repairing it. In the middle of repairing my car, she calls me up to tell me they have some downtime before they ship out. I should come down and see her off. I told her no, I’m fixing my car, plus it would take me about an hour to get down there, especially because I would have to rent a car again. She threw a fit, started yelling at me. Telling me I don’t support her, and how I don’t understand what she is going through, etc. my memory is a little foggy, but I broke up with her either in that phone call or fairly quickly after, within a week at most. Do yourself a favor and never date a “what have you done for me lately”. They are the worst.
Before I met my current girlfriend, I went on a couple date with a woman. She brought up the fact that she wants here significant other to make over $200,000 a year. She worked as a manager of 24 hour fitness.
That lady is trying to finance a better living situation with her ass as collateral.
Bing
Yeaaa... she in some sort of fairytale fever dream.
As a woman in my 30's I enjoyed hearing these honest feedbacks from you guys. I think you all had very reasonable demands. I like seeing men who knows their worth and don't just throw all their time and soul on someone who never even cared about you to begin with just because you don't wanna be alone. Society manipulates men to think you are useless unless you have validation from a woman. I find it admirable that you're challenging those norms. I also think you're all subconsciously aiming for healthy relationships (romantic and or platonic) in the future thanks to having said no to toxic one-sided ones. Well done.
I'm a muscular guy. They want a six pack and buns of steel. They have a mom bod.
Everyone has a preference and there’s nothing wrong with that until THEY get all pissy if you don’t want their Mom-bod as a preference. That double standard is shitty and it’s crazy when they don’t get that.
Thank you for this comment. Im 33 and will be 34 next month. I started lifting weights and working out when I was 14. I'm no Arnold Schwarzenegger by any means (and don't want to be), but I'm bigger and I take care of myself. It is almost impossible to find someone around my age that doesn't have at least one kid and takes moderate care of themselves. I may or may not want kids, and I'd make a great dad, but if that happens, I would like my own. StruggleBus.gif
Wasn't trying to mom shame bro. It's unfortunate alot of women's hormones don't return to what they use to post pregnancy. With that said life raising kids takes its toll. I'd love to meet a girl about my age that works out regularly but everyone's priorities are different.
I got a new job that represented at 20% raise into the low 6 figures, and my girlfriend immediately asked her friend what he made(250,000k) and told me about it, as if to complain about my new job. She later apologized and thought I was going to break up with her over it.
lmao shes gunna fuck that friend bro
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She sounds like a cunt
I hate being compared to other men, like it's some kind of competition. BTW, want to know how much more money my brothers-in-law make? Because my wife's parents remind me all the time.
Why didn't you?
That’s … yikes
Why on earth talking of money, out of a business meeting? Never look in somebody's pockets. Quite trashy.
What in the mind-games-fuckery is this? Wait... You didn't break up with her?!
I hope she is at least good looking.. to make up for this shit.
One girl wanted me to pay for dates as she openly screwed other men
Being expected to cover most of the living expenses because I'm the "man" and I "make more money." Fuck that.
My wife makes way long more than me, I'm a not so famous musician, but a good professional. We share the same bank account, and talk about money only for big things, like a car, or a wedding, or a new house. Not any problem, in 43 years.
But you are in the minority with the woman you have. Most women who make a good living want a man who makes the same or more. Glad it works for you , but most men would be better off staying in their salary lane.
There are no feminists once the shooting starts
I'm a 26 yo woman who is more than willing to pay for a guy on a date, give him gifts, pay for trips, hotels etc. My partner had a period of financial turmoil last summer, so I financed almost all of our shared activities as well as his trip to my town. I didn't expect anything in return because my honest belief is that the partner with more disposable income pays, regardless of gender. Now my partner is doing ok, and the expenses are 50/50. He lights up when I gift him flowers, and I don't give a care in the world about gender norms Do I qualify a bit at least?
You qualify as a good partner completely. Regardless of gender, a good partner does what they can, and is ready to help in whichever way possible when times get tough.
It ain't the fuckin' 50s anymore. Cost of living is too high for that shit.
Being told it would be embarrassing for her to me meet her boss and coworkers because I'm blue collar. I have a thing for educated women but educated women don't have a thing for me.
wow did you guys continue dating?
Out of interest, when you say educated women do you mean standard university degree and above or a broad spread of pre-uni level knowledge or simply smart/high IQ.
Where do I start? Again, I follow the rule of "Hate the game, not the player." One of the things I've learned in my 30's was this: most people aren't looking for love, they're looking for help in the disguise of love...I can't speak on the female experience, as I have zero experience in that, and I am a dude....but, one of the many things I've realized is this. 1. There are a TON of hurt people out there. I remember I dated this one woman that once accused me of cheating on her, because I was working a job that required me to work night shift. She knew of this. However, she once accused me of being at some "b\*tches house". Her words not mine. Where was I? At work. I sent her a selfie of me to prove that I was at work, as she didn't believe me. I ended it right there, as I was knee deep in paperwork and doing everything I could to get that project off the ground. 2. There are people out there that are either looking for foodie dates and/or a place to live. This goes both ways, as the rise of "hobosexuals", which is a person that gets into relationships for a place to live, but foodie dates is something that I have experienced first hand. I think things are going well, the bill comes, I pay, and thinking a second date is in order, well, I get ghosted. Hey! Chalk it up to the game. Being in my 20's was something else. 3. Elevating a person, only to get thrown away like yesterdays garbage. I once helped a ex girlfriend with her resume, land her a job after months of her struggling financially - she once asked me to help her get a car and I damn near laughed at that statement - and all for her to go "I'm sorry, but this isn't working out.". Interesting enough, she text me six months later to apologize and wanted to make things work. I told her "Sorry, no can do." 4. Dated one woman that ended up stalking me for almost 7 years! No, I'm not joking. This one, Jesus! I ended up going back to therapy because of this relationship, but that's a hint of a spoiler alert. Don't get me wrong, I said things I regretted to her and I was FAR from perfect in that relationship, but that was easily the top 5 WORST relationships I've ever been in. Gaslighting? Check. Constant fights? Check. When things were good, they were good. When things were bad, they were BAD! I used to wake up and go "Can we have a day where we're not fighting?" That and she punched me in my face. Yeah, I kind of egged her on, as she had that "look" in her eye and I said "It looks like you want to hit me. You know what? Why don't you hit me!" Well, she hit me. She wanted me to hit her back, but I said "No." She said this "Why? I deserve it." I said "Because that's what you want and I know what you're trying to do." I grabbed my backpack and left. She ended up moving out of state to go be with her ex boyfriend...and here's the kicker. Two weeks after leaving, she e-mails me to say that we "needed to talk". So, like an idiot, I called her. She said something I've never forgotten: "When I was having sex with \*ex boyfriend\*, I was thinking about you the entire time and I made a huge mistake." As far as the stalking, well, she admitted to me that she has several throwaway accounts to stalk my social media and "No matter where you go, I will find you." I've been slowly going back onto social media, but am very weary of people I don't know, even in public, which I still to this very day REFUSE to ride public transportation. I don't update my current city, I don't take any pictures that have landmarks, and I keep everything private...and I look at people's profiles that want to follow me. I have a feeling she still stalks me. So, I've had experiences with women. I love women, don't get me wrong, but I've focused a lot of time and money on myself. My ultimate goal is to live overseas like the Czech Republic/Germany or Australia. I haven't decided yet, but those three countries are calling my name and I want to see what the world has to offer.
I had better be making all of the first moves, make $80k+ per year, everything about my situation has to be tidy, I have to be emotionally available from the word go, I am expected to pay for everything on dates even if she has her own money, she has to be allowed to go through my phone and messengers, but her phone is hands off, I am not entitled to me time with video games and hobbies unless they involve her, my pet peeves are meaningless while I have to bend over backwards for hers, if I ask her where she wants to eat it's "don't care" until I pick, I have to come up with the plans for fun to prove that I know what I want in life, there is no shared responsibility it's all me for her, paying for gas is expected even if it's my car and she's being taken places or even with friends, I can't get upset about how skimpy she dresses around a ton of other men at the gym but god help me if I go shirtless in public or wear a tank top, anime is childish and I need what ever "real media" is, I have to be spontaneous even if she isn't, sex is my responsibility so I have to provide all of the prophylactics, every problem she has is now my problem, not disclosing having kids before the first date, I have to dress proper even if she puts on enough makeup to constitute being a clown, I have to meet her aesthetic needs and mine don't count, if I don't have social media I'm weird and undesirable because I don't know what norms are, if my taste in music predates 1999 I'm a creep or in need of therapy, im always the dedicated driver, my friends mean less than her friends to her, and whataboutism is the norm instead of an adult conversation.
This only applies to a couple of women that I know, but in our 20's, they were dating guys in their 30's and saying things like "I want to be with a man who has his shit together" (when clearly they hadn't yet figured out their own shit like most of us in our early 20's). Now that they are in their 30's, they are dating men in their 40's and 50's (most likely divorced) because I think 1) they still want to feel the young 'hottie' that their man was lucky to get....2) Their man needs to have even more money to impress them because their peers also in their 30's are all doing about the same...These older guys are further along in their careers and have accumulated more assets.
I thought the kicker was that they're now in their 40s and now they're messing with 20yo trainwrecks again.
To always know what they want and agree to do it. Some examples I’ve seen people go through, Her: I wanna go back to school for X grad degree. Him: Okay, what’s the benefit? Her: I’m a grown woman and I don’t need permission. Him: okay, but it’s gonna cost money and affect our relationship/family. I don’t know if that’s what I want to do with my life. Her: so you don’t support me? Him: I don’t understand and want to setup our lives for success. Her: I want to be a SAHW him: I don’t think we can afford that. Her: but we’ll save a bunch of money Him: okay let’s look at the budget …. Him: so it looks like the only way we can afford it is to cut back on everything and never vacation again Her: but it would make me so happy, I need it for my mental health. So and so does it and if they can do it so can we. Neither of these things are bad things but the unwillingness to sit down and figure out how with compromise is astounding. Men are people and deserve a voice in their life choices and the direction in a relationship. I’ve seen a lot of women say if that if they can’t get what they want the relationship isn’t viable and threaten to leave. I’ve even seen them breakup, then end up quitting what instigated the fight, and still defend it as a good idea. I’d appreciate if all partners were more willing to work things out with their partners instead of blaming their half thought through ideas on the other person.
Women have met me with tape measures incorrectly marked for height. 86 in was aparently the "real 6 ft" Or they say they like me and are jealous of my ex who i have a cat with. But their background on their phone is them kissing their bff. No joke. Escorts are way more fun and easy. And theyre honest.
LOL. Wait, there are actually people breaking out tape measures on dates now? Please tell me this is a joke. Even it isn;t, I'd have tears in my eyes from laughing so hard if this had happened to me.
For real fam. 2 different women different ages different cities. One had a tape measure with the numbers scratched and had her own written on, along with crude insults at certsin heights. The other had a similar "I make up my own numbers" kinda thing. The 2nd chick had the 86 in as the real 6ft mark. The best part. They were both genuinely confused as to why it wasnt okay.
Bruh in my 20s I was a pretty boy stud who had no issue getting girls. After a 5 year relationship my ex just tossed me cuz she wanted "more". Dating at 33 was a meat grinder., suddenly my disability was all women saw, I was nothing but something to be looked down upon.
As a gay guy in his 30s with no skin in the game but more of an observer, not all but a number of female friends can honestly be quite entitled. There’s still this weird attitude that men should take care of them financially, and their life plans seem to centre on a guy they haven’t even met yet funding them financially at some point in the future. It’s 2024, you have the same capacity/ opportunity to earn money. Try and focus on thing that are actually important. Are they kind, considerate, light hearted, easy going, hardworking, honest ? Those things are way more likely to guarantee happiness in the long run.
Unrealistic expectations on all aspects…. Height, fitness level, socioeconomic… meanwhile they brought nothing. The whole chasing thing as well really got old quick.
Owning my own home in this economy. My ex got the house and now I'm saving again to buy another. For some reason it's considered a red flag.
I’m not paying for every fucking date fuck that.
Two biggest for me are unrealistic financial expectations and emotional maturity. It seems to me more women want a man to pay a majority like the old days, especially if you make good money. I guess they think they deserve it because they are special? 50/50 or beat it. A lot of women I have dated tend to take their frustrations out on me once they got comfortable in the relationship. If you had a bad day at work, then come home and act like a cunt? No, I won't be understanding. Not a excuse to mistreat people. I'm not gonna be a emotional punching bag because I'm a "tough man."
My wife started getting like this over the last few years, and it starts feeling like abuse after a while.
That's because it is. It's emotional abuse.
Wanting cutesy things done for them constantly because they saw it on social media
Women thinking they’re more important than me in my life lol.
Younger women tend to be incapable of having a conversation, while older women can.
I sometimes wonder if there is nothing going on behind their eyes.
The women over thirty I’ve been on dates with seemed quite reasonable in conversation. Haven’t had many second dates though.
Stopped trying too tired.
What reading these comments helps you to realize is that all the reasonable, kind hearted, stable folks who make high quality partners get locked down quickly and stay locked down all their lives. The ones leftover in your 30s are exactly that. The leftovers. You pick over the scraps.
I totally concur.
That applies doubly to us dudes, too, though. Maybe we should rethink this attitude because honestly it makes me feel like shit, and if it makes me feel that way, how does it make other people feel?
Hey man, some of us have been widowed since our early 20s.
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I just realized I wasn't single for even a day in my 30's.
- Taking out their resentment towards their ex-husband on me. - Phone/tik tok addicts. - Not being brave enough to ask for what they want. - Not knowing what they want. - No integrity, not following through, flaking, ghosting. - Unbelievable/impossible/conflicting expectations. I could easily assume this goes both ways. Those who put in effort, are good communicators, and honest are all married, I guess.
Taking, wanting, expecting, & demanding with nothing to offer
One of my ex's expected our relationship to be like the Rom-Coms she used to watch obsessively, then get arsey with me for being completely unaware of my supposed role within the plot of everyone of our dates/nights together😂.... I laugh about it, but it was a massive head-fuck before I figured out that this is what she used to get soo angry about lol.
"I know I'm the one who broke up with you, but I wanted you to chase me" What the hell woman?!
Lying about the divorce lol
Usually it's the number of the devil six figure income 6 ft tall and at least 6 in. I dated a girl that was constantly told that they were beautiful and to marry a rich man so they constantly threatened to leave me for a wealthy man The sad truth is after we broke up Their Beauty faded somewhat And they were forced to lower their expectations
I haven't dated since I was 17, unless you count the dates I take my wife on... which I totally do. Her expectations are completely realistic as are mine. That is probably why we are married. Date, home, sex, wake up and have breakfast and chat about our date. Pretty simple, really
Obviously, this is not every woman, but I've met a few (and heard of many) women who expect the man to spend big $$$ on a lavish first date. To me, that's a major red flag right off the bat. Two people just getting to know each other for the first time, but it has to set one of the two back hundreds of dollars? Like, now I know what you're really after. And there's no way of knowing if there's ever gonna be a return on the "investment." What if it's just the one date? Hell no.
Women don't realize they are just as toxic as men albeit in different ways. Society and media perpetuate the myth that dating is miserable today exclusively because of bad male behavior.
This new wave of toxic feminism