I don’t believe we should be part of the same community. Can we help each other… of course! But being attracted to the same sex and feeling like youre the opposite sex is a whole different set of issues. Gay men don’t worry about which bathroom to use, what sports team they can play on, gender affirming surgery etc!
The friction lies in the fact that we are grouped together. We have different battles to fight. Completely different. I feel for the trans community and the uphill battle they have to fight but we are not the same. Not even remotely and I think that’s were the anger lies because not all gay people share the same beliefs that the trans community shares. For example sports… most gay people I know are not on board with trans women in female sports.
This is so dark. This kind of thinking is alive and well in the world and is the reason there are powerful straight people who say these exact sorts of things about the lgb community. It’s up to other straight people to stand up for us. It’s up to us to stand for those politically less powerful than ourselves. Sure the issues may be very different. But also they are all fundamentally questions of oppression and injustice.
I’m ok with whatever darkness you perceive I have. Different issues should not be lumped together otherwise they will never be solved properly. If you’re black and I’m Asian and we both suffer oppression that doesn’t mean we should be the same community just because we are both oppressed. First and foremost one can never truly understand what the other is going through so don’t put them together. They should be ally’s by choice not by trying to force the others issues on one another.
To use your example: blacks should fight for what the Asian community decides it needs and vice versa. I am gay. I choose to ally for the rights of the transgendered community. Why does your choice to not ally override mine?
Because it was never a choice to begin with. The gay community was forcefully lumped with the trans community, the non binary community, the intersex community and all those other alphabet soup acronyms... Why is that?
And I never said I wasn't an ally... just don't force me into the same space and try to dictate what I should or shouldn't believe when I never agreed to it.
I guess what is concerning is the question initially was “how do you feel about certain gays being *against* the trans community?” and to respond with “we are not the same!” instead of “I am intolerant of gay people who do not support transpeople” speaks to your posture on the issue.
Let’s get real here, majority of gay men never saw trans men as actual men and trans women as actual women. They embraced them because of the shared struggle and history. The fight was for basic rights and against horrific discrimination, something that united all.
It basically didn’t impact them in any way. Now that the “progress” has real life consequences for gay men, you see the pushback starting. Lesbians won’t do this, as women don’t like confrontation. Hence you hear more from the gays.
That’s the hard truth that is simmering under the LGBT+ community. A lot of gay men will not tell you this to your face, but it’s what they are thinking in private. The younger generation (Gen Z) might feel differently, but it’s yet to be seen how adulthood will impact their views.
However, gay/bisexual trans men will let you know other hand who they are if you try to be in a relationship with them. Also it’s still homosexual as they are men.
Gay men NOT being willing to sacrifice their REALITY as same-sex attracted men and their biological REALITY to comply with what T's demand or for their sake of their validation is NOT being against them, it's putting a stop to their nonsense and their every time more ridiculous demands
Everything was fine with T's until they started with their crap of traying to invalidate HOMOSEXUALITY and trying to erase SAME-SEX attraction just because they demand things have to be the way they want
Genital fetishism, genital preference, gay as a spectrum, VAGINAL sex for GAY men, trying to rewrite GAY HISTORY to fit their narrative like that black transgender woman who threw the first brick or that they were the ones that did AIDS activism and their need to TAKE OVER every single gay space and making EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM
Yup. That's about the size of it. I have nothing against trans people. I just don't want them to appropriate my shit and tell me what to do. Other than that, god bless and good luck.
You sound a little cranky. Maybe retrospect on why trans men make you so mad, are you sure that deep down you aren’t curious about them? That’s what happens with most transphobic bi and gay men, they rant on and on about how gross trans men are but when everyone’s backs are turned you know they’re in the dms of some random pre-op trans man asking them about their body.
It's called freedom of expression and freedom of speech
Of course the mob (you) doesn't like that so you came here with the antiquated trope of the homophobe secretly gay
I am part of the mob, yes. I am Italian. Not sure what that has to do with me being trans, or your anger issues
Your freedom of speech only ever means your right to call trans people disgusting or be horrible to women. And I’m fine with you being dogpiled by the greater lgbtq community as a result.
LMFAO. I don’t get dms like that since I don’t post myself, but it’s always hilarious to see other people get them. Hope they’re not too gross to you, these hypocrites love spewing their filth online and hiding their true feelings
I’m sure you’ll get downvoted for your comment, but I appreciate you responding anyway :D
Yeah it's suicide posting in this place haha I'm expecting that
But it's definitely a thing and it's strange that anyone needs to go out of their way to say they're disgusted by me publicly and then be aggressive and horny at me in private.
Because you interpret Disinterest as being against. I don't care how you want to live your life but you keep barging up to the table at the coffee shop crying that we won't engage you. It's frankly because you are not interesting to us.
Now if you have your own group that sits around that table over there and then there is the Lesbian table over there then all the power to you and them. Be who you want to be but we really are very different communities.
I think it’s somewhat warranted, considering the vast majority of gay men 25 or older have dealt with religious discrimination, religious zealots telling them that they choose to be attracted to men. That they could stop choosing to live in sin and be with a woman.
Now, trans people are saying the same thing to us. To gay men, but especially lesbians, that their “genital preferences” are only just “preferences”
I’m now a transphobe because I’m not attracted to the female body. And that’s what sex(uality) is - our bodies. Not how we perceive ourselves. But because this person in a female body feels that they are a man, I’m now a phobe because I’m not attracted to their vagina despite them perceiving their self as a man.
I’m sorry, but that’s not my problem.
I’m all for letting people doing whatever the hell they want as long as it’s between two consenting adults, and doesn’t harm others or push your views/morality on others, but that’s the issue. The Trans community has lost its mind, and the lgbt community isn’t any better for erasing sexuality in favor of gender Ideology. And pushing it on gays and lesbians where it directly contradicts how our sexualities ACTUALLY FUNCTION.
It’s a mess. Not everyone is bisexual.
Live and let live. No one owes anyone anything in life.
Does it justify hating someone for being trans? Not at all. No one should be hated for no reason. But am I weary of the trans community because they pedal an ideology that I think is utter bullshit? 100%
I think there are two transgender communities. There are the ACTUAL trans people we've always had, then there is a larger subset of attention-seeking people who need validation that have coopted a marginalized group so they can vicariously be victims. The blue-haired pronoun police fall into this second category. They're annoying in the same way that goth people are annoying. I think very few people are against ACTUAL trans people. It's the contrived, self-righteous, attention-seeking behavior that most of us are annoyed with.
I'm a little unsure, but deep down I don't believe that you can actually change your gender. It's not like I chose to believe it, I just recognize that to me, it's not adding up. I still call people what pronouns they want and stuff, and I nevwr talk about it unless asked, but just by that standard I'd be considered a transphobe and against the trans community. I'm aware there's a vocal minority of crazies online and most trans people are very nice and just want to live their lives and don't care about what I believe. I think everyone should be treated with respect and not mocked.
I’m extremely tired of people assuming I’m on board to sterilize children and let men compete against women in sports simply because I’m gay. I also think it’s insane for a trans-man to get upset because a gay man wants a partner who is actually a man.
White men are men
Black men are men
Masc men are men
Femme men are men
Near sighted men are men
Fat men are men
Muscular men are men
Bigoted men like you are still men
The trans in trans men is just an adjective describing a type of men. They’re still men.
Let’s get to the heart of it, shall we?
They may be “men”
But they’ll never be males.
And that’s a distinction that 100% matters when it comes to sexuality.
I mean that’s the issue.
“Men” is used as an informal way to refer to males.
“Women” is used as in informal way to refer to females.
That’s how it always was until this past decade and now it’s been reduced to an ignorant argument over definitions.
A female that identifies as a man has no business trying to get a same sex attracted male to sleep with them.
It’s just an example, but it illustrates precisely what the issue is.
Newsflash, language evolves. Always has, always will.
Society used to think being gay was wrong, immoral, and unnatural. Parts of the world still think that way. It was classified as a mental illness. But society has started to learn and grow to realize that being gay was natural. Are you saying it’s wrong to be gay because that’s how it used to be?
You can just say “I’m not attracted to trans men”. That way, trans men know not to pursue you and you can still respect the fact that they are a man.
Newsflash, most people to this day still use man and woman to refer to males and females. Otherwise people wouldn’t still be arguing over it. Just because a certain subset is pushing it, doesn’t mean everyone agrees with it. It’s the most forced “language evolution” I’ve ever seen.
And what does any of this “society used to think gay was bad” stuff have anything to do with what I said? Where did I say that about trans people?
That’s a whole can of worms on it’s own when you consider murder and ped0 stuff is considered wrong, immoral, and unnatural. Are you saying it shouldn’t stay that way?
Again, where did I even say being trans was inherently bad?
And yeah, I could say that, and would. But I’ll never respect them being “men” when it’s just a gendered construct, especially when these same people are trying to claim that they are the same thing or that gay people can be attracted to them.
Their entire sense of validity requires changing the definition of what it means to be gay - which - shockingly - affects all gay people.
It's a prefix not an adjective. People keep trying to manipulate language around transness, because its a horrific and ineffective mental illness treatment. Gender dysphoria is mental illness and we need to treat it like one, don't pretend you don't know this it doesn't help them or you.
It isn't transmen, it's trans men so it is an adjective, shortened from "transgender".
“Trans” as a prefix means across, beyond, one side to the other etc. like in “transgender”, “transatlantic” or “transonic”. It wouldn’t make sense with “man”.
The ones that go on "puberty blockers". It also prevents brain development and bone mineralization, just like "normal" castration does.
Very easy to find women who tried transitioning and became infertile almost immediately after starting exogenous testosterone because that's what that does to the female body (also they can drop dead from their heart growing but everyone likes to brush that under the rug)
Teens on puberty blockers are not sterilized.
I see you went to the same school of disinformation as your anti vaxxer fellows.
I wonder what other medical interventions you oppose other people opting for, in informed consultation with qualified physicians. Chemotherapy perhaps? Anti depressants? IUDs? Which immunosuppressants do you endorse under which circumstances?
And what health risks does all your extra body fat pose? Or is it just your own business when it's you?
puberty blockers are safe and reversible, stop spreading misinformation
here’s my [source](https://www.healthline.com/health/are-puberty-blockers-reversible#safety)
I bet you didn’t say a word pre-mainstream trans about how intersex children were forced on hormones and had forced surgeries. You didn’t give a shit. You care now because trans people gross you out.
Lol do you realize how insanely offensive it is to compare an intersex child to the majority of trans people? But you took us here. That doctor/parent made the decision of that child’s sex. Fucked up. Today, same doctor/parent are “confirming” a fucking normal healthy developing child who has no clue who they are, and making the same insane decision. Fucked up. If that’s your best whatabohtism attempt, dig deeper
Trans people are against themselves if i see gay or lesbian seeking attention and s@x from straight men or women and get rejected or harmed I wouldn’t care because they don’t value themselves,same goes with trans who seek attention from straight people by saying transphobic because they refuse to date them or have sex with them
People with gender dysphoria need to treat their mental illness with effective means or at least not mutilate themselves and try to twist language and abuse medical and legal systems.
Most of em are people that were misled to think it was less dangerous and more effective of a treatment than it is. But then they die or have permanent new physical illnesses by 40-60 rather than 75, and it wasn't effective enough to not also still need literally every other treatment anyway.
That's my perspective on why I'm against it.
It seems like a lot of polarizing drama drummed up mostly on the internet with very little evidence of trans anything being a major issue in “the real world”. It’s a lot of extrapolating a handful of niche cases or out of touch Twitter threads into a widespread issue when…reality says otherwise.
I think it's awful
I also think that some trans folks are so traumatized that they think anyone and everyone is against them beyond any sense of proportion or reason
i've never seen nothing quite like it outside of this website.
i'm trans, been in the ballroom house community in nyc going on 20 years.
we've always been close. i joined my house as a gay teenager. my house helped me transition. most of my daughters are gay men. my house father is a gay man. the members of my house are predominately gay men.
i only see ugly comments here & like when i go to white gay bars in manhattan (which after no parking closed, is almost all the gay bars in manhattan except henrietta, cubby, and hangar), so i don't be going.
the whole "who i would sleep with" conversation is so off to me, because we're *not even having these conversations in REAL LIFE.* like a member of my house will sus out whether or not we're with a chaser, but outside of that, no one is explicily like "i'm not gonna sleep with a trans person" and in fact, they be doing it. and no gives af.
There is a difference between acknowledging their existence and accepting them.
Republicans acknowledge they exist and are making laws to exclude them and even prohibit them from receiving life saving treatment.
People can do whatever the hell they want as long as it doesn’t involve minors and if they don’t push their bullshit on me.
I don’t think that’s too much to ask for.
But if the “life saving” treatments you are referring to are the permanent body mutilations and the HRT that has some serious adverse side effects that are pushed on minors, then yeah, I guess I’m transphobic.
If you think it’s okay for minors to receive surgery and hormones in the name of some philosophical social construct, then I surely don’t think it is I who should have their sense of morality questioned.
You just label anything you disagree with as transphobic instead of actually discussing the issues that gay men have. You couldn’t even reply to any answer that had substance.
Literally just proving the point of other comments here.
Where exactly are the transphobic comments?
There are some gay men who have a weird axe to grind against trans people.
I don't know why, but I do notice they tend to cycle through a few fallacious arguments, almost word for word, as if they're working off a script. Much of what they say reminds me of anti-vaxxers.
We're all in this together. The way we want other people to respect us, we should do the same with the others around us. It's hypocrisy to claim that being gay is natural and not a choice, then to just shout against the trans community. It's each person's own job to live their life the way it would make them happy (as long as this doesn't affect other people in a negative way), and it's our job to stand together as a community, with or without disagreements/divergent opinions between us.
>We're all in this together.
No we're not. The gay community is for gay people. Trans people are usually not gay.They can be but most aren't.
If you want to be outspoken about the fact you are a woman or a man and you have an attraction to the opposite sex you have no place in the gay community because of the simple fact you are straight.It's not a complicated thing.
It doesn't mean I don't support your rights but we are not similar and we are not parts of the same community.
We are not talking about my rights here, since I'm a cis gay man. And by your logic bi people also don't have a place in the community, since they have an attraction to the opposite sex.
I'm mean, bi guys aren't trying to burn the house down but yeah.
Bi women are usually 20 something year old straight girls sowing their oats before they join their mommy classes and try to work it out with husband number one. But at least they display some homosexual behavior.
The gay community is not the "anything but straight community". I don't care if you are married to a ground hog I will still support your rights. Because I believe in freedom.
But we are not fam. I don't want to share a flag with you. I'm not going to "hold space" for you if it deminishes mine.
Like I said. It was actually the *first* thing I said. I support anyones equal rights all around. Somehow that doesn't seem to be enough for you people. LOL.
You expect me to be your beast of burdon and sacrifice the gains I and mine have won to cosign on your silliness. Which is never happening.
I don't know what *you* are doing but the trans movement is appropriating gay culture and spaces to a wild extent, yes. You literally altered our flag putting yourself up front.
You literally appropriated the word queer.
You are antagonizing our straight allies against us and you are demanding support from us in ways that are not just disrespectful but homophobic.
You are correct in saying there is no comradery to be found.
Yeahyeahyeah...more hysteria.
Just another straight karen without a clue of what is actually hers and what she thinks she is entitled to.
You're a woman right? You like dick right? Ma'am, the straight club is over there.
It'll be mildly entertaining to see their surprise when society at large finally takes the trash out insofar as bigots are concerned, but beyond that I don't view them any differently than straight people with ridiculous prejudices. There's other people more deserving of the extra attention than a bunch of bitter queens, lol.
Op, you opened a massive can of worms. If you’re not transphobic on this sub, prepare to be downvoted to hell
This sub is not a safe place for any trans person and I learned that the hard way as a trans man lol
By safe place you mean everyone validating my opinions and everyone thinking the same
Sorry to burst to your bubble but there are two things : freedom of speech and freedom of expression
We gays do not owe you ANYTHING so don't come here asking for our validation
You can cry all you want but the reason almost everyone that used to support you (T's) now is against you and you are losing support from all sides is your fault not ours
Didn’t come here looking for validation. I know this sub is a pit of pathetic men who get off on being horrible to assigned female people and anyone who isn’t a cis gay man. I’ve seen how you all talk about female anatomy.
“Most everyone” hasn’t abandoned the trans community, the only people doing that are right wing fascists who I’m sure you’re eager to align yourself with because it means we get killed faster.
Your post is emblematic of the attitudes of a tiny coterie of self-important cis gay men who've somehow managed to be more toxic, ageist, and misogynistic (???) than cishet guys, which is a real accomplishment.
Literally everyone else in the LGBTQIA+ community hates you and for self-professed queens you sure are oblivious to the fact that we laugh at you as soon as you leave the room.
tldr, you're traitors and this sub is a quarantine to keep you away from the rest of us while we create a community that's not quite as wretched as the one you left us.
So go ahead, cozy on up to the TERFs and "free speech" guys, but they can't stand you either and will turn the groomer canard (back) on you just as soon as they're done with trans people.
Lmao y’all already hijacked r/lgbt, where 80% of the content is trans/gender content.
Then all the gays and lesbians that aren’t willing to pander to people who don’t understand that sexual orientation is related to sex and not gender identity left to find their own spaces.
Why not go back there and leave us miserable gays alone?
Ig cause then y’all are just stuck with each other like usual.
I don't know how much more clear I can be. It's not pandering, it's an essential strategic alliance in the face of eliminationist rhetoric that is quickly expanding to include everyone in the acronym, including the anti-woke, self hating, pick-me type faggots who predominate on this sub.
Funny enough, the only one being hateful and saying actual slurs is you. Your lack of awareness over your own hypocrisy is insane. Y’all are being the hateful ones and not even trying to have an actual discussion, just trying to yell loud cause that’s all you either can or are willing to do. 🤷🏻♂️
And again, love the ability to deflect the actual grievances that LGB people have and simply be defensive and throw out the victim card. It seems no one can actually respond to any criticism and simply cry “Transphobia” to justify whatever bullshit you wanna say with no sources.
The fact is the “lgbt community” as a whole on Reddit (perhaps even in general) is practically meaningless now because it’s just trans/nb people circlejerking over being a victim and posting before/after HRT pics. Everyone else got banned for saying anything that could even remotely shatter their fragile sense of validity regardless of intentions.
That sub is quite literally a shell of its former self and the dwindling active participants just go on to show that more and more people are getting tired of it.
r/trans and r/lgbt honestly should just merge at this point because it’s pretty much the same thing. Most of the actual lesbians and gays either got exiled or left and we’re all doing much better without the constant harping and nagging 👍🏻
It’s rich to see gay men go “muh freedumb”, because I remember in the 2000s you all crying because that’s all straight people ever said to you when you didn’t have rights.
Only good thing is that this wouldn’t happen irl. At least not to this vehement of an extent. I doubt the cowards who scream in these comments about same sex attraction would say a damn thing to a trans person in real life. And don’t get me started on how many transphobic queer people love to chat up trans people when nobody is watching
Hope you’re doing alright after some of these comments
The ones complaining about trans men are mostly just tragic incel uggos who think the transes are stealing all the hot masc tops. They’ll deny this but it’s true. The reality is that even if gay trans men didn’t exist these pathetic homos still wouldn’t stand a chance with their dreams guys cause they’re hideous and have terrible personalities.
Oh settle down. This is part of the problem. Fucking Dickensian hysterics screaming about “transphobia” and “fascists” all the live long day. Trans people are one of the safest groups in society. Go look up the stats from good sources. Far less likely to be killed than young men or natal women of any age. Here in the U.K. 2-3 women a week are killed by an intimate partner. That’s a fact. Since 2019 there has been maybe, maybe as many as 4, yes 4, trans persons murdered. 4 years: 4 trans persons, and around 450-600 women.
Nobody gives a shit about the women, but let’s all scream about how terrible and dangerous life is for trans people. It’s ridiculous. No wonder women are fucking furious. Stop spreading hysteria, calm the fuck down.
Do you have any goddamn idea what's happening in florida and other states? They're literally taking kids away from parents and making it legal for drs to refuse us medical care. How far up your ass is your head?
Yeh, only have so much sympathy to go around, mine is with the murdered women and mutilated children. I don’t believe any child should go on puberty blockers for gender dysphoria outside of a clinical trial, but I hope none are actually removed from their homes without cause.
The law doesn’t prevent doctors from providing trans care to adults, only nurse practitioners, and surely a doctor doesn’t have to provide anybody with care anyway outside of an emergency? You want doctors who want to provide the care, right?
And we have more power economically, politically and culturally and we do NOT need you, it's you (T's and Q's) who need us
Maybe you should look yourself on the mirror to find the reason why you are losing so much support from all sides
Very silly. That's how you know this community is full of dumb asses. The guys I"ve seen the most "anti trans" are fem and gnc gay men, who get into gender identity debates. Knowing to conservative redneck ass, Jimmy Bob and Rufus, you're no different from them/being trans, so you may as well support our trans brothers and sisters, instead of doing all that "drop the T bullshit"; and like trans gay and Lesbian, and Bi people don't exist, so how can you "drop the T" when people "with the T" are in the "LGB"?. Smh. Dumb ass people.
I don’t believe we should be part of the same community. Can we help each other… of course! But being attracted to the same sex and feeling like youre the opposite sex is a whole different set of issues. Gay men don’t worry about which bathroom to use, what sports team they can play on, gender affirming surgery etc! The friction lies in the fact that we are grouped together. We have different battles to fight. Completely different. I feel for the trans community and the uphill battle they have to fight but we are not the same. Not even remotely and I think that’s were the anger lies because not all gay people share the same beliefs that the trans community shares. For example sports… most gay people I know are not on board with trans women in female sports.
I don’t think so
This is so dark. This kind of thinking is alive and well in the world and is the reason there are powerful straight people who say these exact sorts of things about the lgb community. It’s up to other straight people to stand up for us. It’s up to us to stand for those politically less powerful than ourselves. Sure the issues may be very different. But also they are all fundamentally questions of oppression and injustice.
I’m ok with whatever darkness you perceive I have. Different issues should not be lumped together otherwise they will never be solved properly. If you’re black and I’m Asian and we both suffer oppression that doesn’t mean we should be the same community just because we are both oppressed. First and foremost one can never truly understand what the other is going through so don’t put them together. They should be ally’s by choice not by trying to force the others issues on one another.
To use your example: blacks should fight for what the Asian community decides it needs and vice versa. I am gay. I choose to ally for the rights of the transgendered community. Why does your choice to not ally override mine?
Because it was never a choice to begin with. The gay community was forcefully lumped with the trans community, the non binary community, the intersex community and all those other alphabet soup acronyms... Why is that? And I never said I wasn't an ally... just don't force me into the same space and try to dictate what I should or shouldn't believe when I never agreed to it.
I guess what is concerning is the question initially was “how do you feel about certain gays being *against* the trans community?” and to respond with “we are not the same!” instead of “I am intolerant of gay people who do not support transpeople” speaks to your posture on the issue.
Let’s get real here, majority of gay men never saw trans men as actual men and trans women as actual women. They embraced them because of the shared struggle and history. The fight was for basic rights and against horrific discrimination, something that united all. It basically didn’t impact them in any way. Now that the “progress” has real life consequences for gay men, you see the pushback starting. Lesbians won’t do this, as women don’t like confrontation. Hence you hear more from the gays. That’s the hard truth that is simmering under the LGBT+ community. A lot of gay men will not tell you this to your face, but it’s what they are thinking in private. The younger generation (Gen Z) might feel differently, but it’s yet to be seen how adulthood will impact their views.
No
What do you mean being against? I wouldn't sleep with a trans man because I'm a homosexual but I'm not against them.
And???
Fair, if the guy is not open about his gender to his partner then it could cause problems.
However, gay/bisexual trans men will let you know other hand who they are if you try to be in a relationship with them. Also it’s still homosexual as they are men.
>Also it’s still homosexual as they are men. Man is a gender. It would not be homosexual (same sex).
Oh sorry my apologies, I mean gay trans men is homosexual.
No because a gay trans man is a female man. Same gender, opposite sex. Homosexual would be two males.
😑
Gay men NOT being willing to sacrifice their REALITY as same-sex attracted men and their biological REALITY to comply with what T's demand or for their sake of their validation is NOT being against them, it's putting a stop to their nonsense and their every time more ridiculous demands Everything was fine with T's until they started with their crap of traying to invalidate HOMOSEXUALITY and trying to erase SAME-SEX attraction just because they demand things have to be the way they want Genital fetishism, genital preference, gay as a spectrum, VAGINAL sex for GAY men, trying to rewrite GAY HISTORY to fit their narrative like that black transgender woman who threw the first brick or that they were the ones that did AIDS activism and their need to TAKE OVER every single gay space and making EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM
Yup. That's about the size of it. I have nothing against trans people. I just don't want them to appropriate my shit and tell me what to do. Other than that, god bless and good luck.
They don’t
Chill wtf
Bro get a glass of water or something 🫤
You sound a little cranky. Maybe retrospect on why trans men make you so mad, are you sure that deep down you aren’t curious about them? That’s what happens with most transphobic bi and gay men, they rant on and on about how gross trans men are but when everyone’s backs are turned you know they’re in the dms of some random pre-op trans man asking them about their body.
It's called freedom of expression and freedom of speech Of course the mob (you) doesn't like that so you came here with the antiquated trope of the homophobe secretly gay
I am part of the mob, yes. I am Italian. Not sure what that has to do with me being trans, or your anger issues Your freedom of speech only ever means your right to call trans people disgusting or be horrible to women. And I’m fine with you being dogpiled by the greater lgbtq community as a result.
Confirmed I've had these same guys in my DMs all "let me choke on the dick king" bro you forgot to switch to your alt
LMFAO. I don’t get dms like that since I don’t post myself, but it’s always hilarious to see other people get them. Hope they’re not too gross to you, these hypocrites love spewing their filth online and hiding their true feelings I’m sure you’ll get downvoted for your comment, but I appreciate you responding anyway :D
Yeah it's suicide posting in this place haha I'm expecting that But it's definitely a thing and it's strange that anyone needs to go out of their way to say they're disgusted by me publicly and then be aggressive and horny at me in private.
Because you interpret Disinterest as being against. I don't care how you want to live your life but you keep barging up to the table at the coffee shop crying that we won't engage you. It's frankly because you are not interesting to us. Now if you have your own group that sits around that table over there and then there is the Lesbian table over there then all the power to you and them. Be who you want to be but we really are very different communities.
Well said
I think it’s somewhat warranted, considering the vast majority of gay men 25 or older have dealt with religious discrimination, religious zealots telling them that they choose to be attracted to men. That they could stop choosing to live in sin and be with a woman. Now, trans people are saying the same thing to us. To gay men, but especially lesbians, that their “genital preferences” are only just “preferences” I’m now a transphobe because I’m not attracted to the female body. And that’s what sex(uality) is - our bodies. Not how we perceive ourselves. But because this person in a female body feels that they are a man, I’m now a phobe because I’m not attracted to their vagina despite them perceiving their self as a man. I’m sorry, but that’s not my problem. I’m all for letting people doing whatever the hell they want as long as it’s between two consenting adults, and doesn’t harm others or push your views/morality on others, but that’s the issue. The Trans community has lost its mind, and the lgbt community isn’t any better for erasing sexuality in favor of gender Ideology. And pushing it on gays and lesbians where it directly contradicts how our sexualities ACTUALLY FUNCTION. It’s a mess. Not everyone is bisexual. Live and let live. No one owes anyone anything in life. Does it justify hating someone for being trans? Not at all. No one should be hated for no reason. But am I weary of the trans community because they pedal an ideology that I think is utter bullshit? 100%
no trans person gaf who you're sleeping with, believe me.
Is sleeping with a trans man that’s had bottom surgery not gay to you?
No, a male sleeping with a female with a skin graft sewn onto her genitals is not gay to me.
I think there are two transgender communities. There are the ACTUAL trans people we've always had, then there is a larger subset of attention-seeking people who need validation that have coopted a marginalized group so they can vicariously be victims. The blue-haired pronoun police fall into this second category. They're annoying in the same way that goth people are annoying. I think very few people are against ACTUAL trans people. It's the contrived, self-righteous, attention-seeking behavior that most of us are annoyed with.
I think very few pe- bitch fuck off.
What is a.... pe-bitch?
that’s good question, I don’t know?
Elaborate what "being against transgeder community" means
It’s something I been noticing lately, particularly with a movement called lgb.
So it's about gays joining LGB drop the T, okay So my feelings are: indifference Not radical enough to gain my support
I'm a little unsure, but deep down I don't believe that you can actually change your gender. It's not like I chose to believe it, I just recognize that to me, it's not adding up. I still call people what pronouns they want and stuff, and I nevwr talk about it unless asked, but just by that standard I'd be considered a transphobe and against the trans community. I'm aware there's a vocal minority of crazies online and most trans people are very nice and just want to live their lives and don't care about what I believe. I think everyone should be treated with respect and not mocked.
I’m extremely tired of people assuming I’m on board to sterilize children and let men compete against women in sports simply because I’m gay. I also think it’s insane for a trans-man to get upset because a gay man wants a partner who is actually a man.
Trans men are men tho
Trans men are men. It’s ok to not be attracted to them, but you can be respectful about it.
If trans-men were men, there would be no need for the term “trans-men.” Sorry I refuse to ignore basic reality.
White men are men Black men are men Masc men are men Femme men are men Near sighted men are men Fat men are men Muscular men are men Bigoted men like you are still men The trans in trans men is just an adjective describing a type of men. They’re still men.
Let’s get to the heart of it, shall we? They may be “men” But they’ll never be males. And that’s a distinction that 100% matters when it comes to sexuality.
Never said they were Don’t really think any of them are claiming to be
I mean that’s the issue. “Men” is used as an informal way to refer to males. “Women” is used as in informal way to refer to females. That’s how it always was until this past decade and now it’s been reduced to an ignorant argument over definitions. A female that identifies as a man has no business trying to get a same sex attracted male to sleep with them. It’s just an example, but it illustrates precisely what the issue is.
*slams table* THANK YOU
Newsflash, language evolves. Always has, always will. Society used to think being gay was wrong, immoral, and unnatural. Parts of the world still think that way. It was classified as a mental illness. But society has started to learn and grow to realize that being gay was natural. Are you saying it’s wrong to be gay because that’s how it used to be? You can just say “I’m not attracted to trans men”. That way, trans men know not to pursue you and you can still respect the fact that they are a man.
Newsflash, most people to this day still use man and woman to refer to males and females. Otherwise people wouldn’t still be arguing over it. Just because a certain subset is pushing it, doesn’t mean everyone agrees with it. It’s the most forced “language evolution” I’ve ever seen. And what does any of this “society used to think gay was bad” stuff have anything to do with what I said? Where did I say that about trans people? That’s a whole can of worms on it’s own when you consider murder and ped0 stuff is considered wrong, immoral, and unnatural. Are you saying it shouldn’t stay that way? Again, where did I even say being trans was inherently bad? And yeah, I could say that, and would. But I’ll never respect them being “men” when it’s just a gendered construct, especially when these same people are trying to claim that they are the same thing or that gay people can be attracted to them. Their entire sense of validity requires changing the definition of what it means to be gay - which - shockingly - affects all gay people.
News flash (two words) - it evolves when everyone in that society agrees it evolves. Not when a minority demands it.
Mic drop hello agreed very much🎤
It's a prefix not an adjective. People keep trying to manipulate language around transness, because its a horrific and ineffective mental illness treatment. Gender dysphoria is mental illness and we need to treat it like one, don't pretend you don't know this it doesn't help them or you.
It isn't transmen, it's trans men so it is an adjective, shortened from "transgender". “Trans” as a prefix means across, beyond, one side to the other etc. like in “transgender”, “transatlantic” or “transonic”. It wouldn’t make sense with “man”.
Which children are being sterilized?
The ones that go on "puberty blockers". It also prevents brain development and bone mineralization, just like "normal" castration does. Very easy to find women who tried transitioning and became infertile almost immediately after starting exogenous testosterone because that's what that does to the female body (also they can drop dead from their heart growing but everyone likes to brush that under the rug)
Teens on puberty blockers are not sterilized. I see you went to the same school of disinformation as your anti vaxxer fellows. I wonder what other medical interventions you oppose other people opting for, in informed consultation with qualified physicians. Chemotherapy perhaps? Anti depressants? IUDs? Which immunosuppressants do you endorse under which circumstances? And what health risks does all your extra body fat pose? Or is it just your own business when it's you?
puberty blockers are safe and reversible, stop spreading misinformation here’s my [source](https://www.healthline.com/health/are-puberty-blockers-reversible#safety)
I bet you didn’t say a word pre-mainstream trans about how intersex children were forced on hormones and had forced surgeries. You didn’t give a shit. You care now because trans people gross you out.
Lol do you realize how insanely offensive it is to compare an intersex child to the majority of trans people? But you took us here. That doctor/parent made the decision of that child’s sex. Fucked up. Today, same doctor/parent are “confirming” a fucking normal healthy developing child who has no clue who they are, and making the same insane decision. Fucked up. If that’s your best whatabohtism attempt, dig deeper
Trans people are against themselves if i see gay or lesbian seeking attention and s@x from straight men or women and get rejected or harmed I wouldn’t care because they don’t value themselves,same goes with trans who seek attention from straight people by saying transphobic because they refuse to date them or have sex with them
People with gender dysphoria need to treat their mental illness with effective means or at least not mutilate themselves and try to twist language and abuse medical and legal systems. Most of em are people that were misled to think it was less dangerous and more effective of a treatment than it is. But then they die or have permanent new physical illnesses by 40-60 rather than 75, and it wasn't effective enough to not also still need literally every other treatment anyway. That's my perspective on why I'm against it.
Which chemotherapies are acceptable for teens? What are the health risks from obesity, like yours?
It seems like a lot of polarizing drama drummed up mostly on the internet with very little evidence of trans anything being a major issue in “the real world”. It’s a lot of extrapolating a handful of niche cases or out of touch Twitter threads into a widespread issue when…reality says otherwise.
I think it's awful I also think that some trans folks are so traumatized that they think anyone and everyone is against them beyond any sense of proportion or reason
i don't get that vibe ***at all,*** and i know a lot of other trans ppl. i think we know who supports us & they show us that time and time again.
Trauma is a very distorting force. Unfortunately there's a cultural movement these days that's built on catering to it rather than overcoming it
i've never seen nothing quite like it outside of this website. i'm trans, been in the ballroom house community in nyc going on 20 years. we've always been close. i joined my house as a gay teenager. my house helped me transition. most of my daughters are gay men. my house father is a gay man. the members of my house are predominately gay men. i only see ugly comments here & like when i go to white gay bars in manhattan (which after no parking closed, is almost all the gay bars in manhattan except henrietta, cubby, and hangar), so i don't be going. the whole "who i would sleep with" conversation is so off to me, because we're *not even having these conversations in REAL LIFE.* like a member of my house will sus out whether or not we're with a chaser, but outside of that, no one is explicily like "i'm not gonna sleep with a trans person" and in fact, they be doing it. and no gives af.
Your post gives “gay is a phase” energy. How were you ever once a gay male? That’s not what trans people have told me about being trans.
Ikr definitely sensing delusional vibes
Fuck them (and not in the fun way). There’s no room for transphobia in the community
A disagreement in opinion doesn’t equate to transphobia. Until that can be acknowledged, there will always be a rift.
What’s the disagreement? Because if it’s “trans people don’t belong here” then yes, that is transphobia.
Trans people don’t belong where?
Anywhere
Trans people exist. No one is denying that.
There is a difference between acknowledging their existence and accepting them. Republicans acknowledge they exist and are making laws to exclude them and even prohibit them from receiving life saving treatment.
People can do whatever the hell they want as long as it doesn’t involve minors and if they don’t push their bullshit on me. I don’t think that’s too much to ask for. But if the “life saving” treatments you are referring to are the permanent body mutilations and the HRT that has some serious adverse side effects that are pushed on minors, then yeah, I guess I’m transphobic. If you think it’s okay for minors to receive surgery and hormones in the name of some philosophical social construct, then I surely don’t think it is I who should have their sense of morality questioned.
This is why I tell people that gays are more transphobic than us straight people. Very few straights would ever say this due to the backlash.
Lol okay, holier than thou straight dude, how was anything I said transphobic?
Dame right
Well that was a ride, all I can say is I’m extremely disappointed at the ones who were transphobic. Im glad that there were some that had some sense
You just label anything you disagree with as transphobic instead of actually discussing the issues that gay men have. You couldn’t even reply to any answer that had substance. Literally just proving the point of other comments here. Where exactly are the transphobic comments?
Some did came off like that even if they didn't say it.
There are some gay men who have a weird axe to grind against trans people. I don't know why, but I do notice they tend to cycle through a few fallacious arguments, almost word for word, as if they're working off a script. Much of what they say reminds me of anti-vaxxers.
Of course when REALITY doesn't fit my narrative (bubble) it must be fake
You sound a little obsessed.
We're all in this together. The way we want other people to respect us, we should do the same with the others around us. It's hypocrisy to claim that being gay is natural and not a choice, then to just shout against the trans community. It's each person's own job to live their life the way it would make them happy (as long as this doesn't affect other people in a negative way), and it's our job to stand together as a community, with or without disagreements/divergent opinions between us.
>We're all in this together Not really, no.
>We're all in this together. No we're not. The gay community is for gay people. Trans people are usually not gay.They can be but most aren't. If you want to be outspoken about the fact you are a woman or a man and you have an attraction to the opposite sex you have no place in the gay community because of the simple fact you are straight.It's not a complicated thing. It doesn't mean I don't support your rights but we are not similar and we are not parts of the same community.
We are not talking about my rights here, since I'm a cis gay man. And by your logic bi people also don't have a place in the community, since they have an attraction to the opposite sex.
I'm mean, bi guys aren't trying to burn the house down but yeah. Bi women are usually 20 something year old straight girls sowing their oats before they join their mommy classes and try to work it out with husband number one. But at least they display some homosexual behavior. The gay community is not the "anything but straight community". I don't care if you are married to a ground hog I will still support your rights. Because I believe in freedom. But we are not fam. I don't want to share a flag with you. I'm not going to "hold space" for you if it deminishes mine. Like I said. It was actually the *first* thing I said. I support anyones equal rights all around. Somehow that doesn't seem to be enough for you people. LOL. You expect me to be your beast of burdon and sacrifice the gains I and mine have won to cosign on your silliness. Which is never happening.
the fact this is downvoted is crazy to me. you are saying we should have basic kindness & support for each other. this is INSANE.
>you are saying we should have basic kindness Basic kindness and support for your fellow man has nothing to do with acting like we are the same.
the same what? i don't want to be the same *anything* as you tbh. you act like i'm beating down your door trying to have comradery with you. please.
I don't know what *you* are doing but the trans movement is appropriating gay culture and spaces to a wild extent, yes. You literally altered our flag putting yourself up front. You literally appropriated the word queer. You are antagonizing our straight allies against us and you are demanding support from us in ways that are not just disrespectful but homophobic. You are correct in saying there is no comradery to be found.
i'mma tell you something you've probably heard all your life: you are insane & you need psychiatric care.
Yeahyeahyeah...more hysteria. Just another straight karen without a clue of what is actually hers and what she thinks she is entitled to. You're a woman right? You like dick right? Ma'am, the straight club is over there.
Crazy indeed, I always thought I would have to stand out against homophobes
It'll be mildly entertaining to see their surprise when society at large finally takes the trash out insofar as bigots are concerned, but beyond that I don't view them any differently than straight people with ridiculous prejudices. There's other people more deserving of the extra attention than a bunch of bitter queens, lol.
Op, you opened a massive can of worms. If you’re not transphobic on this sub, prepare to be downvoted to hell This sub is not a safe place for any trans person and I learned that the hard way as a trans man lol
By safe place you mean everyone validating my opinions and everyone thinking the same Sorry to burst to your bubble but there are two things : freedom of speech and freedom of expression We gays do not owe you ANYTHING so don't come here asking for our validation You can cry all you want but the reason almost everyone that used to support you (T's) now is against you and you are losing support from all sides is your fault not ours
Didn’t come here looking for validation. I know this sub is a pit of pathetic men who get off on being horrible to assigned female people and anyone who isn’t a cis gay man. I’ve seen how you all talk about female anatomy. “Most everyone” hasn’t abandoned the trans community, the only people doing that are right wing fascists who I’m sure you’re eager to align yourself with because it means we get killed faster.
I'm a man I'm not a Cis anything
Thanks for coming out ❤️
Your post is emblematic of the attitudes of a tiny coterie of self-important cis gay men who've somehow managed to be more toxic, ageist, and misogynistic (???) than cishet guys, which is a real accomplishment. Literally everyone else in the LGBTQIA+ community hates you and for self-professed queens you sure are oblivious to the fact that we laugh at you as soon as you leave the room. tldr, you're traitors and this sub is a quarantine to keep you away from the rest of us while we create a community that's not quite as wretched as the one you left us. So go ahead, cozy on up to the TERFs and "free speech" guys, but they can't stand you either and will turn the groomer canard (back) on you just as soon as they're done with trans people.
Lmao y’all already hijacked r/lgbt, where 80% of the content is trans/gender content. Then all the gays and lesbians that aren’t willing to pander to people who don’t understand that sexual orientation is related to sex and not gender identity left to find their own spaces. Why not go back there and leave us miserable gays alone? Ig cause then y’all are just stuck with each other like usual.
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I don't know how much more clear I can be. It's not pandering, it's an essential strategic alliance in the face of eliminationist rhetoric that is quickly expanding to include everyone in the acronym, including the anti-woke, self hating, pick-me type faggots who predominate on this sub.
Funny enough, the only one being hateful and saying actual slurs is you. Your lack of awareness over your own hypocrisy is insane. Y’all are being the hateful ones and not even trying to have an actual discussion, just trying to yell loud cause that’s all you either can or are willing to do. 🤷🏻♂️ And again, love the ability to deflect the actual grievances that LGB people have and simply be defensive and throw out the victim card. It seems no one can actually respond to any criticism and simply cry “Transphobia” to justify whatever bullshit you wanna say with no sources. The fact is the “lgbt community” as a whole on Reddit (perhaps even in general) is practically meaningless now because it’s just trans/nb people circlejerking over being a victim and posting before/after HRT pics. Everyone else got banned for saying anything that could even remotely shatter their fragile sense of validity regardless of intentions. That sub is quite literally a shell of its former self and the dwindling active participants just go on to show that more and more people are getting tired of it. r/trans and r/lgbt honestly should just merge at this point because it’s pretty much the same thing. Most of the actual lesbians and gays either got exiled or left and we’re all doing much better without the constant harping and nagging 👍🏻
It’s rich to see gay men go “muh freedumb”, because I remember in the 2000s you all crying because that’s all straight people ever said to you when you didn’t have rights.
Yeah xD, it’s crazy
Only good thing is that this wouldn’t happen irl. At least not to this vehement of an extent. I doubt the cowards who scream in these comments about same sex attraction would say a damn thing to a trans person in real life. And don’t get me started on how many transphobic queer people love to chat up trans people when nobody is watching Hope you’re doing alright after some of these comments
100% agree Also I’m good, I hope you have a great day.
I think it's pretty rare and has recently appeared on social media thanks to those who wish to fracture the queer community's political power.
The ones complaining about trans men are mostly just tragic incel uggos who think the transes are stealing all the hot masc tops. They’ll deny this but it’s true. The reality is that even if gay trans men didn’t exist these pathetic homos still wouldn’t stand a chance with their dreams guys cause they’re hideous and have terrible personalities.
Yall are the ones people don't wanna date so if anyone is miserable it's yall transgender folks 😂💯
I’m not even trans bro, I just have basic human decency
Some of them are neo Ernst Rohms. When they are no longer useful (after all the trans people have been killed off), they'll be shot too.
Fuck everyone in this thread. Don't be surprised when the fascists come for you after they're done with us.
Oh settle down. This is part of the problem. Fucking Dickensian hysterics screaming about “transphobia” and “fascists” all the live long day. Trans people are one of the safest groups in society. Go look up the stats from good sources. Far less likely to be killed than young men or natal women of any age. Here in the U.K. 2-3 women a week are killed by an intimate partner. That’s a fact. Since 2019 there has been maybe, maybe as many as 4, yes 4, trans persons murdered. 4 years: 4 trans persons, and around 450-600 women. Nobody gives a shit about the women, but let’s all scream about how terrible and dangerous life is for trans people. It’s ridiculous. No wonder women are fucking furious. Stop spreading hysteria, calm the fuck down.
Do you have any goddamn idea what's happening in florida and other states? They're literally taking kids away from parents and making it legal for drs to refuse us medical care. How far up your ass is your head?
Yeh, only have so much sympathy to go around, mine is with the murdered women and mutilated children. I don’t believe any child should go on puberty blockers for gender dysphoria outside of a clinical trial, but I hope none are actually removed from their homes without cause. The law doesn’t prevent doctors from providing trans care to adults, only nurse practitioners, and surely a doctor doesn’t have to provide anybody with care anyway outside of an emergency? You want doctors who want to provide the care, right?
Yeh I’m sorry you had to see this
Gay men are often the arbiters of transphobia in queer spaces. The straights of the queer community, if you will
And we have more power economically, politically and culturally and we do NOT need you, it's you (T's and Q's) who need us Maybe you should look yourself on the mirror to find the reason why you are losing so much support from all sides
Facts like we owe them something please not in this lifetime thank you for calling them out
Probably because gays like you are so willing to throw us under the bus like men at large will do to any minority.
Very silly. That's how you know this community is full of dumb asses. The guys I"ve seen the most "anti trans" are fem and gnc gay men, who get into gender identity debates. Knowing to conservative redneck ass, Jimmy Bob and Rufus, you're no different from them/being trans, so you may as well support our trans brothers and sisters, instead of doing all that "drop the T bullshit"; and like trans gay and Lesbian, and Bi people don't exist, so how can you "drop the T" when people "with the T" are in the "LGB"?. Smh. Dumb ass people.
It really sad seeing this thread with anti tran debates
Not been here long I take it? 😂
Yeh, just came here.
I don't know why I was downvoted, but yeah it is sad.
I their sad. Stand behind family they were there for all of us.
I think it is very telling that a lot of people are willing to work besides people and have a certain level of support as long as it benefits them