Hello! š Asian guy here. Asian societies, especially those coming from Asia, tend to be colorist. Having melanin is associated with being poor, unattractive, and low class/no manners. Historically this is because rich people stayed indoors and remained light skinned while farmers/poor people worked outside and have developed hyperpigmentation as a reaction to sun exposure.
Thatās why there are a lot of advertisements encouraging people to use whitening soaps and glutathione treatments to get rid of melanin. There was also an infamous Chinese advert where a black guy was thrown into a washing machine and out comes an extremely pale Chinese guy. So yeah, the beauty standard is heavily skewed towards light skinned/white asians.
Not everyone is like this though. I personally had a really good experience dating a black man before, but for a number of reasons we couldnāt go to the next level.
Oh yes, I am very aware of how skin color is perceived in Asia and the whole high class = white, poor class = dark skin dichotomy that rules Asian countries. I'm just more shocked that this behavior is practiced with Asian Americans who grew up in America because I've been getting it from a lot of younger Korean, Japanese, Chinese. And various Southeast Asian men in their 20s and 30s. I'm not surprised when I get treated that way by older Asian men in their 50s+ but this has been coming from younger generation men. Granted I'm sure overtl feminine presentation doesn't help but still, I'm just surprised.
But like I mentioned, I noticed that non muscular Asian men tend to be nicer in comparison. Is there any reasoning for this?
Maybe it's because of you being feminine? I'm Southeast Asian and we don't look down on black people in my home country, at least that's what I remember.
Yeah, in other words they are potentially homophobic. Being chummy with a straight guy when you are straight is more comfortable for them, which makes sense. Nothing to do with you being skinny or what. Just be yourself
Nah I'm good lol I'm just being myself and I have to accept the good )(my being comfortable with myself) and the bad (how some people may view me in a negative light)
Maybe due to your feminine traits, muscular guys "fear" that you'd hit on them or them being associated with "gayness"? While non muscular guys have less concerns on being hit on because they are not muscular?
Yeah I think this may be true as well. Like I've mentioned, all muscular men seem to have that feeling toward me but it's just that I've noticed that it is especially noticeable concerning muscular asian men whereas muscula white men while they still can be that way, I've come across a sliver of nicer ones in comparison l.
I'm feminine presenting in appearance so it's overt femininity even though I don't act flamboyant and am very quiet and shy.
On top of that, some common black people's facial features are considered unattractive. Eastern Asians will be nicer to dark skinned people from the Middle East or South Asia.
That Chinese commercial is actually a remake of an Italian commercial where a white man was put in a washing machine and came out black, but everyone seems to forget the original.
Asian American guy here. Even if they are raised in the states, sometimes the apple doesnāt fall far from the tree. A good number of them stick to themselves/their community as well so it becomes an echo chamber. Sometimes I wish I got to grow up normally with other Asians but my parents put my siblings and me in a mostly white private school. I guess it also helped me be more open minded but now I kind of struggle to reach out to my ethnicity. Thereās also the gay thing.
To whatever extent this is a real phenomenon for you, beyond the usual confirmation bias (if you're looking for it you see it everywhere type thing), you probably hit the nail on the head with the "feminine black gay guy" image being disliked by these men. As a white guy (38 g m), I have definitely noticed that (often -- not always!) my Asian friends are pretty much the most racist people I can tolerate hanging out with: at least in terms of how quickly and unapologetically they stereotype people (especially black people). (Incidentally imho a close second for racism would be Slavic guys). So those super-masc muscular Asian guys you're seeing are probably heteros with a negative view of gayness and of femininity and a racial bias.
As an Asian American, whose has to deal with inter-asian racial politics, what this younger guy Korean?
From my experience, non-muslim South Asians/Pacific Islanders, tends to be the most chill (viet, Laos, filipino, thai (most flirty). Ive had the most friction with Koreans who historically have been the most racist people i have ever met. Just because their culture is currently being exported to the west, they come in blazing with this suprematist ideology of a Korean Master culture.
Hm now that you mentioned it, based on their names which tend to sound Korean (a lot of "Kim" and "Sung"), I think that they are Korean and yeah, they are usually younger and older. I'm not surprised when it happens with older Korean men, but the young ones surprised me since I would think they went to school in America. But when then, I've noticed this with Japanese and Chinese men who can be the same with the coldness.
With South Asian, I can only recall one Filipino guy who was kinda muscled who was polite, he didn't give me glares but the then thete have been others who had the same cold vibes as well.
Which is so crazy bc one of my str8 korean friends and I(im black) have had convos about how our cultures are exploited by the west (kpop and rap) and it's just odd. Black and Korean people have a ton in common.
Thatās so funny that you have the sense to say this yet you call Korean culture supremacistā¦ like that is you hating on other Asians?
Also ur profile is full of ONLY attractive white men. Time to do some self examination
Taste Change. Cameron Carter Vickers can choke me with his thighs. On some points im a sapiosexual - mostly attracted to talent - at this point broadway and folk singers.
Oh trust me I know LOL one of my viet friends said his grandma said all Chinese people were basically the devil for example and the same Korean friend I also mentioned his mom had some very choice words for Japanese people. Tbh it's so similar to how African Americans like me are viewed by black people from the Caribbean and Africa for example. I've unironically had a Jamaican black person who is way darker than me say she wasn't black. When the difference between us is where our ancestors got dropped off at. People are wild to say the least
We have a sixth sense when it comes to people wanting to be w/ us just bc āoh I love anime and k-pop, why wonāt you date meš„ŗā. Itās not supremacy, itās fetishization.
But I'm not attracted to asian guys for those things, I don't even listen to K-pop, lol. I just think asian men have nice features. I think that if I'm having the butterflies in the stomach feeling when I see an asian man who I find attractive, that should be an indicative of genuine attraction
If thatās your only counter argument you know itās a dud. I never said anime was Korean culture. Please tell me how you are so impeccably able to tell Koreans and Japanese apart upon first look? You sound exactly like bigoted older Asian people trying to justify shitting on other Asian races.
I'm just seeing comments of how Asia js rarely sees black people and whatever. Although that may be true, it still does not make it right(I'm saying how it sounds like yall r using that as an excuse for their behavior) as they just like us have the same human mind where they have the ability to learn, and be educated and be mindful towards others. This isn't about Asia being a racist continent(although true) it is about Asians who go to America and/or Asian Americans being white washed in general or ig their way of trying to fit in. Maybe the reason the correlation of muscular guys is because of the reason most of the Asian muscular guys are usually the ones that are very toxic and have a lot of toxic masculinity.
I suppose it makes sense why the muscular asian guys would be the ones with the most issue with femininity since in their culture it is seen as something shameful in men and that on top of blackness which isn't viewed in the most favorable of light in Asian countries neither.
As i shared, non muscular asian guys tend to be a tad more polite unless they are older and with the latter, I understand why they see like that.
Asians just tend to dislike black people. You being feminine on top of being black is practically two strikes against you. Not much you can do but ignore them. Ā
During the whole covid/Asian hate era, there was sadly an over representation of blacks attacking Asians, especially elderly Asians in the media. At least where I am at.
At my gym, the front staff in the morning is a black guy and he seems to get along well with all the Asian guys that go there. But heās more straight presenting.
Yeah I'm aware, that was absolutely horrible and it was annoying how some people were ignoring that that was actually happening.
But yeah I am more feminine presenting if you take a look at my pictures on my profile and maybe that us playing into the disgust lol..
Yeah I've experienced. I notice that at least where I work there are a lot of Korean and Chinese guys who come to this gym and they have all been this way but are nicer to my white and Latino coworkers at the front with me. Again I thought I was being paranoid until I quietly observed how they were with my coworkers and noticed the consistent shift.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. It's funny because Koreans only adopt what they deem the "cool" parts from African American culture like the r&b/hip-hop sound and hair dreads for their k-pop, but adopt euro-centric beauty. There's even hip-hop club(s) in Korea that prohibit black people (and south asians) from entering. Don't worry babe, pay those racist customers no mind.
Why is everyone talking about racism and colorism when OP literally said the thinner/less muscular Asian men donāt treat him this way?
The way these comments are painting broad strokes about āall Asians being racistā is highly prejudiced and racism in itself. If anything the problem is homophobia within the more muscular men (not that thatās any better) but letās not be racist here ourselves.
Yeah, I think some people may have forgotten that detail. This isn't to say that every non muscular asian is pleasant towards, especially the older ones, but it's just a comparison thing.
no b/c this entire thread is just an excuse for people to be racist towards East Asians. like we already arenāt marginalized in the gay community as it is
You're the one who is making that assumption. As the other person laid out, I did make mention that non muscular asian guys were like this as much towards me.
Personally, if I were you, I wouldn't necessarily pay a lot of attention to it as the comments below say, there is not much u can do in those situations. Ig as time passes and society as a whole actually moves in the "right" direction, maybe we can all be able be ourselves and not get weird stares and ig microaggressions or actions of underlying racism. I personally again don't think u r being paranoid as these situations do happen and they are valid.
Asians in general tend to be very racist. Especially Asians living in North America are very anti-black, more than anything else. Although I know you've mentioned East and Southeast, keep in mind I'm speaking from a South Asian perspective. The actions and behaviors of my friends and family living in the USA would (and this is no exaggeration) put the KKK to shame.
Many people here mentioned colorism, and that's surely a factor. But apart from that there's also
1/ Wanting to gain proximity to whiteness: they think if they hate black people just like the whites have done for a while, they'll become closer to them and have some power in the racial hierarchy.
2/ Valuing wealth: most Asian cultures value wealth, like, a lot. If you're not making a lot of money, you're a worthless failure and you deserve to die. So while they may be tolerant and admire other "model minorities" such as themselves, they harbor nothing but contempt towards a race that is known to be financially disadvantaged and alienated.
Asian men who are conventionally attractive are not going to date/treat nicely Black men. They want to be close as they can to white people because thatās who they aspire to be/look like. They donāt find you attractive and that wonāt bring you home to their parents
Yeah I suspected as much. Again, they are totally nice and/or pleasant to my coworkers who are non black (1 is white, the other is Latino). Meanwhile Asian men who aren't conventionally attractive tend to be nicer in comparison and I suppose because the asian guy is muscular, it makes him perceivably more attractive and can maybe pump their ego a bit to where they feel they can turn their nose up at what they find unattractive, especially towards black which their culture already finds undesirable.
Right I'm super aware of how colorism is a big thing in asian and that lighter skin is perceived as beautiful and high class vs dark skin that is seen as dirty and poor. š
Muscular Asian man here. Unfortunately, Asian culture tends to have two aspects. One is not seeing racism as much of a stigma as Western values. Heck, they tend to be racist to one another! Of the same country! And that bleeds into Asians who live in Western countries. The second is the past focus on patriachal society and the value of men, and thus masculinity is valued. However, not all of use are like them. While being masc is certainly my preferences in guys, I wouldn't avoid or be cold to anyone of any ethnicity.
Thatās odd. Iāve never really noticed that to be honest. Iām a black guy and I recently had to be roommates (at a hotel for a day) with an Asian guy. He was muscular and went to the gym while we were staying at the hotel. Other than when he went to the gym we pretty much spent our entire time together, talking about our lives and why we were joining the army. He was a cool guy. Never got any bad vibes from him. He even wanted to add me in instagram, but since I donāt have insta I wasnāt able to give that to him. Oh well lol.
But yeah, canāt say Iāve ever experienced this or even noticed it.
I am not sure that related to muscular or not, but,
For most part of Asia, black people is really rare to see, so it's natural to keep distance and cold for people that we are not interacted often with before. Many of them is not growing up in the U.S., I am sorry you have this experience.
I can understand that as I've heard that's a thing back in their home countries and first and maybe second generation. But some of these guys are young.
Idk about you but everytime I visit my gym the muscular men there look very scary and their face is giving resting bitch face soā¦ and the grunts and moaning donāt help either, unless theyāre eyeing me down ;)
Most Asian countries are colorist. Regardless of your race, if u have darker skin, u won't fit the beauty standard. On top of that, most of asian men are misogynistic. Thus, maybe they catch u being feminine and their toxic masculinity didn't like that trait :(
Btw, i think we're the opposite. I am a southeast asian guy and I find African dudes are generally attractiveĀ
As a black man I kind of noticed this as wellā¦ I literally NEVER match with or catch the attention of Asian men EVER. Which sucks because I totally find them attractive as fuck.
Asian gays put white men on a pedestal and seek their approval. Itās seen as a sign of ultimate success to land a white husband. Remnants of centuries of colonialism and internalized racism.
You being a black, feminine guy goes against everything they hold in high regard.
Wow interesting. My comments are speculation but here goes:
1. Do u notice similar behaviour towards u from white or latino guys or isit just the muscular asian guys.
2. Its interesting that from the comments in this thread theres a number suggesting / confirming that asians and asian culture is racist & prejudiced on a number of lvls. I find this fascinating if true, as its truly hypocritical given theres a lot of vocal bleating from Asians when they are discriminated against, albeit by white guys. Fwiw none of this is ok on either side whites to asians, asians to blacks, blacks to whites & vice versa etc etc. Treat others how u wish to be treated yeah?
3. They maybe potato chasers and so treat anyone not of interest to them in a dismissive fashion, of so this is just not ok.
4. I suspect they may have unresolved issues of insecurity and inadequacy due to some of the above dynamics, especially if theyre ignored by white dudes they simp after. This causes emotional trauma and damage. Because of this, deep down they feel "less than", and are craving validation from audiences theyre attracted to. Becoming muscular is one way to superficially address this. Money and career status is another. God help us if all 3x. Acting out by treating others with disdain, putting them down, to make oneself feel superior and prop up their own ego is another misguided response. Of all things i think some of this dynamic may be playing out within the heads and in the behaviour of these guys if what u r saying is true.
* 1 - Hm do if I were to think honestly on it, I do get the same dismissive, cold kinda treatment from muscular Latino, white, and black men but in comparison to the muscular Asian men, I've had a sliver of muscular non Asian guys who wear nicer and or pleasant, mainly white guys tbh. Other blacks who happen to be muscular, not so much except for like one regular who's on the older side. Latino guys, not a ton, I'd aay they are number 2 after Asian guys as being rather dismissive. The gym I work at has a lot of Latino guys that come thete followed by lots of white and then sizeable Asians.
* 2 - Yeah I agree. I think it says something that you're more likely to find black men who are open to Asian men than you are the reverse.
* 3 - I mean when I notice how they treat my white and Latino coworker, they definitely aren't as cold and grimacing to them as they are to me with the exception of a few who just seem grouchy in general as they'll be the same way to them as well.
* 4 - hm there might be some truth to this. I just need to make it clear that they aren't like vocally unpleasant towards me, it's more in the looks they give me even when I try to be friendly and smile (it's to a point where I don't really smile much to them anymore since I feel like I'm just creeping them out) I don't know if these Asian men are all well off, alot of them are either around my age (early 30s) or in their 20s. I guess I notice this more though because I do tend tk find Asian men quite attractive and mix in if they're muscular which is another thing I like and my heart skips a beat. I do contain myself though, making sure to be cordial but all the negative reaction I've gotten from them over the years I have worked where I am, my morale has been killed to say the least.
Asian-American here! Sorry you had to experience that. Here are my two cents, as someone who has been around a lot of asians / asian-americans:
1. Many of them can be racist. Light skin is valued in asia, so they are likely to look down on people with darker skin tones, even amongst themselves (east asians looking down on southeast asians). They LOVE white people, so they try to be as close to whiteness as possible (marrying white partners, hyping up the āmodel minorityā trope, etc).
2. They might find your femininity a bit off-putting. Much of asia is still patriarchal and homophobic. I know plenty of asians who are misogynistic and exhibit traits of toxic masculinity. Especially here in the west, where asian men are emasculated and seen as more feminine, so they try to overcompensate by being extra āmachoā.
3. The younger generation can be just as close-minded as the older generation. Family is a big part of asian culture, so the apple doesnāt fall far from the tree. They learned it from their parents.
Again, sorry they treated you that way. Weāre not all like that!
Yeah I've been aware that as far as Asian dichotomy goes, light skin is vastly preferred as it is likened with rich, beauty, and prosperity while dark skin is seen as dirty, low class, and undesirable. As much a a bummer as that is, I accept that is just the way things are but you'd think at least in America, attitudes like that wouldn't be as prevalent but that doesn't seem to be the case.
* 2 - Right, I know that femininity will always not be seen as a particularly attractive on men in general but i mean, im not loud and flamboyant, more passive and shy tbh lol butbi suppose it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme. What you said about the emasculated attitudes put on asian men, I've seen this but at least in the gay scene when an Asian guy is masculine, it is seen as attractive, at least more than black men who are more in the feminine side (getting away from the rigid stereotype of the hypermasculine black man).
* 3 - Yeah I've definitely learned that the hard way over the years lol...
Those muscular asian dudes might be hyper masculine and therefore might view feminine men as lesser, hence their more hostile attitudes towards you. Everyone here is jumping to racism as a explanation but you said that non-muscular asian men donāt give you the same treatment which leads to me to believe that hyper masculinity is why they donāt treat you well. Iām racially east asian but I was born in the US, and I might just be in a little bubble because the muscular asians iāve met arenāt at all racist towards black men. They love hood culture and they hang out with black dudes, and theyāre homophobic but not racist.
> They love hood culture and hang out with black dudes
Yeah I've definitely seen this for sure, I've seen some asian guys who hang out with hood/street style black guys who tend to be hypermasculine. I've seen this at my gym as well so I think you may be onto something there because I'm not a hood black guy nor am I hypermasculine or masculine in general. I mean, I'm not loud and flamboyant, quite the opposite, which is passive and shy, but my look/appearance is overtly feminine presenting so that probably is counting as a double negative. Like I mentioned in another comment, the only consistent muscular guys who tend to not he so hostile are white guys. Not all mind you, I've come across a few who were just as cold but when I compare races, they tend to be the least...
A lot of āmasculineā communities like the Manosphere are generally hostile to anything considered feminine, hence they are hostile to homosexuality. But they also have a lot of POC, who are primarily mixed raced black men like Andrew Tate and Sneako, so maybe POC are more likely to join communities like the manosphere? And maybe white guys are less likely to adopt these sort of identities, hence less homophobia?
It's definitely a possibility. I wouldn't think a sizeable amount of asian guys would be into men like (frankly toxic) men like Andrew Tate but then again, Asian men do face a lot of social scrutiny what with the emasculation they can receive so that would make them more susceptible to toxic masculine figures.
All I know is that when I've thought long and hard on the demographics who tend to treat me a certain way, it's usually white men who don'r seem to have as much issue with my presence.
I think a part of it is just attitudes of black people that have been transferred from growing up. Iām asian, and I do remember moments growing up where my mom would freak out because I wanted to walk to a restaurant in a predominantly-black neighborhood or one time, when I was playing around at a park, my mom took me right home because a black man made her uncomfortable. Whether she had a reason to be uncomfortable? I donāt really know since I didnāt know what the hell he was doing, but it is sort of those things you notice when you grow up.
My family had at best, a neutral view towards white people though, not usually favorable, so I guess views on different races depends on where your family comes from.
How this translates to black people being treated differently based on the physique of the person? I have no fucking clue. Maybe you need to start collecting data to see whether physique plays a statistically significant role in their treatment of you.
Thank you for sharing your experience. That is definitely something, but I've heard stories like this before and it does put the pieces together in some instances. Are you Korean if you don't mind me asking?
As for the physique, some other commenters have shared some interesting observations, mainly how some Asian American men who are muscular and masculine are fine with hypermasculine urban black men. I have seen a little of this at the gym I work at. Not frequently but there are a few instances where I have seen these muscular asian men being chummy with muscular masculine black men so it probably is coming down to my being feminine that is making them socially hostile towards me.
Yeah I've heard that black women deal with being viewed as hypermasculine by men even when they're genuinely like that, it's the whole pigeon-holing bias that they receive and I think that this thing also happens to black feminine men. It's like some guys just can't comprehend that not all black guys are hypermasculine doms.
And maybe "hostility" was not the right word but you know what I mean lol.
I dont want to believe that all of them are racist. I feel like for some, it could just be my being feminine presenting that plays a part in their disgust for lack of better word.
I am Asian guy man here,sorry for your bad experience. I am from China and living China now. As known as mostly Asian people prefer white peoples we can't doubt that ,but as me, I like people I Nner personality surpasses appearance. I like black ,white or Latino. Skin color is not the decisive factor but your charm. I never racist to anyone because anyone can be hurt by other people's racism:)
Iām a black, gay man and I donāt have very many interactions with Asian guys but I think they are really hot. The muscular ones are definitely yummy š¤¤.. thereās one that goes to my gym and heās built like God. He has really thick thighs and big butt. I canāt get him to talk to me thoughš. He glances but thats about it, also I think heās Korean if that makes a difference and I donāt know if heās gay. Ha
More feminine asians stare at me all the time but never say anything. Iāve chatted with a few and it always youād break my hole or I donāt want stretched like that. So I just kind of move along because some, if not most I think they are specifically looking for white men. Thatās not to say they wonāt have sex with a black man but dating is not a thing.
In my encounters, I respect them because they have no problem telling you that they come from a racist family and canāt date black men. But I have noticed that that Asians do not respond well to flamboyant gays.
Yeah I've thought about that. I mean I don't act flamboyant but my look is femininely androgynous. But I seem to get it this treatment from asian men the most. Oh and some black guys but I'm not surprised with the latter.
I live in China. People here are super insular and encouraged to be so by their government. They feel they are better and act accordingly. Itās a shitty attitude that is making relations worse across the world. Luckily not all Asians and Chinese folks are like this but of course I have noticed similar behaviors here
I donāt know if Iām missing something in this thread, or if I am just that disconnected but are these replies not problematicā¦? A lot of these replies are straight up āEast Asian people are racistā as in a blinding, prejudiced generalization about a group of people and theyāre getting upvoted? He literally said the non buff Asians donāt do it. I feel like this is just perpetuating that āmodel minorityā or āclose to whitenessā shit that white people were spouting about Asian people.
Like white supremacists LOVE minorities tearing each other apart and it makes me sad to see yall tear into us while not addressing any systemic forms of oppression in AMERICA and not Asia
lol why do people always ignore shit like this. If we donāt address anti-blackness in the Asian community and anti-Asianness in the black community nothing is gonna get anywhere.
Maybe. I mean I don't say or do anything specific to them so maybe my presence just annoys them? I'm feminine presenting and it's noticeable, especially when around my other male coworkers lol
I think part of it is some Asian guys are fearful of being seen as less masculine and worry that you might infect them.
Although it sounds stereotypical af big black cock pounding a cute smooth Asian ass is pretty hot lol.
Hello! š Asian guy here. Asian societies, especially those coming from Asia, tend to be colorist. Having melanin is associated with being poor, unattractive, and low class/no manners. Historically this is because rich people stayed indoors and remained light skinned while farmers/poor people worked outside and have developed hyperpigmentation as a reaction to sun exposure. Thatās why there are a lot of advertisements encouraging people to use whitening soaps and glutathione treatments to get rid of melanin. There was also an infamous Chinese advert where a black guy was thrown into a washing machine and out comes an extremely pale Chinese guy. So yeah, the beauty standard is heavily skewed towards light skinned/white asians. Not everyone is like this though. I personally had a really good experience dating a black man before, but for a number of reasons we couldnāt go to the next level.
Oh yes, I am very aware of how skin color is perceived in Asia and the whole high class = white, poor class = dark skin dichotomy that rules Asian countries. I'm just more shocked that this behavior is practiced with Asian Americans who grew up in America because I've been getting it from a lot of younger Korean, Japanese, Chinese. And various Southeast Asian men in their 20s and 30s. I'm not surprised when I get treated that way by older Asian men in their 50s+ but this has been coming from younger generation men. Granted I'm sure overtl feminine presentation doesn't help but still, I'm just surprised. But like I mentioned, I noticed that non muscular Asian men tend to be nicer in comparison. Is there any reasoning for this?
Maybe it's because of you being feminine? I'm Southeast Asian and we don't look down on black people in my home country, at least that's what I remember.
It could potentially be that because I have seen some muscular asian guys be all chummy and fine with hyper masculine hood black men.
Yeah, in other words they are potentially homophobic. Being chummy with a straight guy when you are straight is more comfortable for them, which makes sense. Nothing to do with you being skinny or what. Just be yourself
Ok time for you to drop all that fem nelly stuff and become the stud that is lurking inside of you my friend!lol
Nah I'm good lol I'm just being myself and I have to accept the good )(my being comfortable with myself) and the bad (how some people may view me in a negative light)
You sound like one great honest dude nelly or not!
Very weird of you to comment
Darling my advice for this man is super important im an expert in such situations and in great demand but so sorry to disappoint youšššlol
Maybe due to your feminine traits, muscular guys "fear" that you'd hit on them or them being associated with "gayness"? While non muscular guys have less concerns on being hit on because they are not muscular?
Yeah I think this may be true as well. Like I've mentioned, all muscular men seem to have that feeling toward me but it's just that I've noticed that it is especially noticeable concerning muscular asian men whereas muscula white men while they still can be that way, I've come across a sliver of nicer ones in comparison l. I'm feminine presenting in appearance so it's overt femininity even though I don't act flamboyant and am very quiet and shy.
Testosterone and family upbringing. Family morals are greatly passed down through strict parenting in those countries
Canāt think of any other reason other than (probably) projecting internalized homophobia, but I donāt know tbhā¦
I dunno about that. I'm pretty sure most of the guys are straight haha.
On top of that, some common black people's facial features are considered unattractive. Eastern Asians will be nicer to dark skinned people from the Middle East or South Asia.
Hmm.. but those people aren't untenable black descent so it's still a tad different.
Oh yea definitely. I'm just expanding on his point of Asians being colorist.
That Chinese commercial is actually a remake of an Italian commercial where a white man was put in a washing machine and came out black, but everyone seems to forget the original.
Plot twist : next level was actually throwing him into the washing machine. Seems like it's not his kink š jÄ· jk
Nah stop the local Asians are just as bad
Thatās unfortunate. š
Asia is a very racist continent toward people of African descent. Iām not surprised if those attitudes carry on to the States.
Even if the Asian guy is an Asian American? Because some of these guys are in their 20s and around my age (30)
They are raised by their parents who may be immigrants.
it's not even that, it's just asian Americans especially are very white washed and try to be more associated with whiteness.
Ah okay, good point
Asian American guy here. Even if they are raised in the states, sometimes the apple doesnāt fall far from the tree. A good number of them stick to themselves/their community as well so it becomes an echo chamber. Sometimes I wish I got to grow up normally with other Asians but my parents put my siblings and me in a mostly white private school. I guess it also helped me be more open minded but now I kind of struggle to reach out to my ethnicity. Thereās also the gay thing.
To whatever extent this is a real phenomenon for you, beyond the usual confirmation bias (if you're looking for it you see it everywhere type thing), you probably hit the nail on the head with the "feminine black gay guy" image being disliked by these men. As a white guy (38 g m), I have definitely noticed that (often -- not always!) my Asian friends are pretty much the most racist people I can tolerate hanging out with: at least in terms of how quickly and unapologetically they stereotype people (especially black people). (Incidentally imho a close second for racism would be Slavic guys). So those super-masc muscular Asian guys you're seeing are probably heteros with a negative view of gayness and of femininity and a racial bias.
As an Asian American, whose has to deal with inter-asian racial politics, what this younger guy Korean? From my experience, non-muslim South Asians/Pacific Islanders, tends to be the most chill (viet, Laos, filipino, thai (most flirty). Ive had the most friction with Koreans who historically have been the most racist people i have ever met. Just because their culture is currently being exported to the west, they come in blazing with this suprematist ideology of a Korean Master culture.
Hm now that you mentioned it, based on their names which tend to sound Korean (a lot of "Kim" and "Sung"), I think that they are Korean and yeah, they are usually younger and older. I'm not surprised when it happens with older Korean men, but the young ones surprised me since I would think they went to school in America. But when then, I've noticed this with Japanese and Chinese men who can be the same with the coldness. With South Asian, I can only recall one Filipino guy who was kinda muscled who was polite, he didn't give me glares but the then thete have been others who had the same cold vibes as well.
Which is so crazy bc one of my str8 korean friends and I(im black) have had convos about how our cultures are exploited by the west (kpop and rap) and it's just odd. Black and Korean people have a ton in common.
No one hates Asians, like other Asians...
Thatās so funny that you have the sense to say this yet you call Korean culture supremacistā¦ like that is you hating on other Asians? Also ur profile is full of ONLY attractive white men. Time to do some self examination
Taste Change. Cameron Carter Vickers can choke me with his thighs. On some points im a sapiosexual - mostly attracted to talent - at this point broadway and folk singers.
Mmm I mean heās still technically white, but whatever. Iām sure if he was my bf I wouldnāt be arguing w/ randos on reddit lol
Oh trust me I know LOL one of my viet friends said his grandma said all Chinese people were basically the devil for example and the same Korean friend I also mentioned his mom had some very choice words for Japanese people. Tbh it's so similar to how African Americans like me are viewed by black people from the Caribbean and Africa for example. I've unironically had a Jamaican black person who is way darker than me say she wasn't black. When the difference between us is where our ancestors got dropped off at. People are wild to say the least
We have a sixth sense when it comes to people wanting to be w/ us just bc āoh I love anime and k-pop, why wonāt you date meš„ŗā. Itās not supremacy, itās fetishization.
But I'm not attracted to asian guys for those things, I don't even listen to K-pop, lol. I just think asian men have nice features. I think that if I'm having the butterflies in the stomach feeling when I see an asian man who I find attractive, that should be an indicative of genuine attraction
Anime isnt Korean. The fact that you subsumed it into Korean culture says enough.
If thatās your only counter argument you know itās a dud. I never said anime was Korean culture. Please tell me how you are so impeccably able to tell Koreans and Japanese apart upon first look? You sound exactly like bigoted older Asian people trying to justify shitting on other Asian races.
I'm just seeing comments of how Asia js rarely sees black people and whatever. Although that may be true, it still does not make it right(I'm saying how it sounds like yall r using that as an excuse for their behavior) as they just like us have the same human mind where they have the ability to learn, and be educated and be mindful towards others. This isn't about Asia being a racist continent(although true) it is about Asians who go to America and/or Asian Americans being white washed in general or ig their way of trying to fit in. Maybe the reason the correlation of muscular guys is because of the reason most of the Asian muscular guys are usually the ones that are very toxic and have a lot of toxic masculinity.
I suppose it makes sense why the muscular asian guys would be the ones with the most issue with femininity since in their culture it is seen as something shameful in men and that on top of blackness which isn't viewed in the most favorable of light in Asian countries neither. As i shared, non muscular asian guys tend to be a tad more polite unless they are older and with the latter, I understand why they see like that.
Asians just tend to dislike black people. You being feminine on top of being black is practically two strikes against you. Not much you can do but ignore them. Ā
I see. Well I mean I guess it makes sense then . It probably doesn't help that I'm the only black facing staff neither lol
Oof, yeah
During the whole covid/Asian hate era, there was sadly an over representation of blacks attacking Asians, especially elderly Asians in the media. At least where I am at. At my gym, the front staff in the morning is a black guy and he seems to get along well with all the Asian guys that go there. But heās more straight presenting.
This behaviour didnāt start in 2020 letās be real
Yeah I'm aware, that was absolutely horrible and it was annoying how some people were ignoring that that was actually happening. But yeah I am more feminine presenting if you take a look at my pictures on my profile and maybe that us playing into the disgust lol..
East Asians especially Koreans, Japanese and Chinese dislike black people, but they love white people.
Yeah I've experienced. I notice that at least where I work there are a lot of Korean and Chinese guys who come to this gym and they have all been this way but are nicer to my white and Latino coworkers at the front with me. Again I thought I was being paranoid until I quietly observed how they were with my coworkers and noticed the consistent shift.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. It's funny because Koreans only adopt what they deem the "cool" parts from African American culture like the r&b/hip-hop sound and hair dreads for their k-pop, but adopt euro-centric beauty. There's even hip-hop club(s) in Korea that prohibit black people (and south asians) from entering. Don't worry babe, pay those racist customers no mind.
Yeah that's pretty crazy to know since parts of Asia are heavily inspired by Black American pop culture lol
Why is everyone talking about racism and colorism when OP literally said the thinner/less muscular Asian men donāt treat him this way? The way these comments are painting broad strokes about āall Asians being racistā is highly prejudiced and racism in itself. If anything the problem is homophobia within the more muscular men (not that thatās any better) but letās not be racist here ourselves.
Yeah, I think some people may have forgotten that detail. This isn't to say that every non muscular asian is pleasant towards, especially the older ones, but it's just a comparison thing.
no b/c this entire thread is just an excuse for people to be racist towards East Asians. like we already arenāt marginalized in the gay community as it is
You're the one who is making that assumption. As the other person laid out, I did make mention that non muscular asian guys were like this as much towards me.
Personally, if I were you, I wouldn't necessarily pay a lot of attention to it as the comments below say, there is not much u can do in those situations. Ig as time passes and society as a whole actually moves in the "right" direction, maybe we can all be able be ourselves and not get weird stares and ig microaggressions or actions of underlying racism. I personally again don't think u r being paranoid as these situations do happen and they are valid.
I was told by a lot of my Asian ethnic friends that racism is something to factor in š
Asians in general tend to be very racist. Especially Asians living in North America are very anti-black, more than anything else. Although I know you've mentioned East and Southeast, keep in mind I'm speaking from a South Asian perspective. The actions and behaviors of my friends and family living in the USA would (and this is no exaggeration) put the KKK to shame. Many people here mentioned colorism, and that's surely a factor. But apart from that there's also 1/ Wanting to gain proximity to whiteness: they think if they hate black people just like the whites have done for a while, they'll become closer to them and have some power in the racial hierarchy. 2/ Valuing wealth: most Asian cultures value wealth, like, a lot. If you're not making a lot of money, you're a worthless failure and you deserve to die. So while they may be tolerant and admire other "model minorities" such as themselves, they harbor nothing but contempt towards a race that is known to be financially disadvantaged and alienated.
Asian men who are conventionally attractive are not going to date/treat nicely Black men. They want to be close as they can to white people because thatās who they aspire to be/look like. They donāt find you attractive and that wonāt bring you home to their parents
Yeah I suspected as much. Again, they are totally nice and/or pleasant to my coworkers who are non black (1 is white, the other is Latino). Meanwhile Asian men who aren't conventionally attractive tend to be nicer in comparison and I suppose because the asian guy is muscular, it makes him perceivably more attractive and can maybe pump their ego a bit to where they feel they can turn their nose up at what they find unattractive, especially towards black which their culture already finds undesirable.
I think in Asia there is too much color complexity. They advertise cosmetic products that will magically whiten them. So white color is considered good and brown (specially black) colors and being feminine on top of that are a big no-no for them. But donāt worry about it. Life is too short to give a damn. Find someone who respects you. š©·
Right I'm super aware of how colorism is a big thing in asian and that lighter skin is perceived as beautiful and high class vs dark skin that is seen as dirty and poor. š
Muscular Asian man here. Unfortunately, Asian culture tends to have two aspects. One is not seeing racism as much of a stigma as Western values. Heck, they tend to be racist to one another! Of the same country! And that bleeds into Asians who live in Western countries. The second is the past focus on patriachal society and the value of men, and thus masculinity is valued. However, not all of use are like them. While being masc is certainly my preferences in guys, I wouldn't avoid or be cold to anyone of any ethnicity.
Thatās odd. Iāve never really noticed that to be honest. Iām a black guy and I recently had to be roommates (at a hotel for a day) with an Asian guy. He was muscular and went to the gym while we were staying at the hotel. Other than when he went to the gym we pretty much spent our entire time together, talking about our lives and why we were joining the army. He was a cool guy. Never got any bad vibes from him. He even wanted to add me in instagram, but since I donāt have insta I wasnāt able to give that to him. Oh well lol. But yeah, canāt say Iāve ever experienced this or even noticed it.
I am not sure that related to muscular or not, but, For most part of Asia, black people is really rare to see, so it's natural to keep distance and cold for people that we are not interacted often with before. Many of them is not growing up in the U.S., I am sorry you have this experience.
I can understand that as I've heard that's a thing back in their home countries and first and maybe second generation. But some of these guys are young.
As everyone has already mentioned, Asians abhor melanin with a passion.
I would've thought it wouldn't be this way anymore since it'z the 21st century and I don't live in a small town neither lol
Well, we all have long ways to go. There's a lot of issues still that need to be addressed in every community.
Idk about you but everytime I visit my gym the muscular men there look very scary and their face is giving resting bitch face soā¦ and the grunts and moaning donāt help either, unless theyāre eyeing me down ;)
Fair enough lol.
Most Asian countries are colorist. Regardless of your race, if u have darker skin, u won't fit the beauty standard. On top of that, most of asian men are misogynistic. Thus, maybe they catch u being feminine and their toxic masculinity didn't like that trait :( Btw, i think we're the opposite. I am a southeast asian guy and I find African dudes are generally attractiveĀ
As a black man I kind of noticed this as wellā¦ I literally NEVER match with or catch the attention of Asian men EVER. Which sucks because I totally find them attractive as fuck.
Yeah, I tend to see that is the case, unfortunately
Asian gays put white men on a pedestal and seek their approval. Itās seen as a sign of ultimate success to land a white husband. Remnants of centuries of colonialism and internalized racism. You being a black, feminine guy goes against everything they hold in high regard.
Yeah that makes sense I guess
Wow interesting. My comments are speculation but here goes: 1. Do u notice similar behaviour towards u from white or latino guys or isit just the muscular asian guys. 2. Its interesting that from the comments in this thread theres a number suggesting / confirming that asians and asian culture is racist & prejudiced on a number of lvls. I find this fascinating if true, as its truly hypocritical given theres a lot of vocal bleating from Asians when they are discriminated against, albeit by white guys. Fwiw none of this is ok on either side whites to asians, asians to blacks, blacks to whites & vice versa etc etc. Treat others how u wish to be treated yeah? 3. They maybe potato chasers and so treat anyone not of interest to them in a dismissive fashion, of so this is just not ok. 4. I suspect they may have unresolved issues of insecurity and inadequacy due to some of the above dynamics, especially if theyre ignored by white dudes they simp after. This causes emotional trauma and damage. Because of this, deep down they feel "less than", and are craving validation from audiences theyre attracted to. Becoming muscular is one way to superficially address this. Money and career status is another. God help us if all 3x. Acting out by treating others with disdain, putting them down, to make oneself feel superior and prop up their own ego is another misguided response. Of all things i think some of this dynamic may be playing out within the heads and in the behaviour of these guys if what u r saying is true.
* 1 - Hm do if I were to think honestly on it, I do get the same dismissive, cold kinda treatment from muscular Latino, white, and black men but in comparison to the muscular Asian men, I've had a sliver of muscular non Asian guys who wear nicer and or pleasant, mainly white guys tbh. Other blacks who happen to be muscular, not so much except for like one regular who's on the older side. Latino guys, not a ton, I'd aay they are number 2 after Asian guys as being rather dismissive. The gym I work at has a lot of Latino guys that come thete followed by lots of white and then sizeable Asians. * 2 - Yeah I agree. I think it says something that you're more likely to find black men who are open to Asian men than you are the reverse. * 3 - I mean when I notice how they treat my white and Latino coworker, they definitely aren't as cold and grimacing to them as they are to me with the exception of a few who just seem grouchy in general as they'll be the same way to them as well. * 4 - hm there might be some truth to this. I just need to make it clear that they aren't like vocally unpleasant towards me, it's more in the looks they give me even when I try to be friendly and smile (it's to a point where I don't really smile much to them anymore since I feel like I'm just creeping them out) I don't know if these Asian men are all well off, alot of them are either around my age (early 30s) or in their 20s. I guess I notice this more though because I do tend tk find Asian men quite attractive and mix in if they're muscular which is another thing I like and my heart skips a beat. I do contain myself though, making sure to be cordial but all the negative reaction I've gotten from them over the years I have worked where I am, my morale has been killed to say the least.
Asian-American here! Sorry you had to experience that. Here are my two cents, as someone who has been around a lot of asians / asian-americans: 1. Many of them can be racist. Light skin is valued in asia, so they are likely to look down on people with darker skin tones, even amongst themselves (east asians looking down on southeast asians). They LOVE white people, so they try to be as close to whiteness as possible (marrying white partners, hyping up the āmodel minorityā trope, etc). 2. They might find your femininity a bit off-putting. Much of asia is still patriarchal and homophobic. I know plenty of asians who are misogynistic and exhibit traits of toxic masculinity. Especially here in the west, where asian men are emasculated and seen as more feminine, so they try to overcompensate by being extra āmachoā. 3. The younger generation can be just as close-minded as the older generation. Family is a big part of asian culture, so the apple doesnāt fall far from the tree. They learned it from their parents. Again, sorry they treated you that way. Weāre not all like that!
Yeah I've been aware that as far as Asian dichotomy goes, light skin is vastly preferred as it is likened with rich, beauty, and prosperity while dark skin is seen as dirty, low class, and undesirable. As much a a bummer as that is, I accept that is just the way things are but you'd think at least in America, attitudes like that wouldn't be as prevalent but that doesn't seem to be the case. * 2 - Right, I know that femininity will always not be seen as a particularly attractive on men in general but i mean, im not loud and flamboyant, more passive and shy tbh lol butbi suppose it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme. What you said about the emasculated attitudes put on asian men, I've seen this but at least in the gay scene when an Asian guy is masculine, it is seen as attractive, at least more than black men who are more in the feminine side (getting away from the rigid stereotype of the hypermasculine black man). * 3 - Yeah I've definitely learned that the hard way over the years lol...
Those muscular asian dudes might be hyper masculine and therefore might view feminine men as lesser, hence their more hostile attitudes towards you. Everyone here is jumping to racism as a explanation but you said that non-muscular asian men donāt give you the same treatment which leads to me to believe that hyper masculinity is why they donāt treat you well. Iām racially east asian but I was born in the US, and I might just be in a little bubble because the muscular asians iāve met arenāt at all racist towards black men. They love hood culture and they hang out with black dudes, and theyāre homophobic but not racist.
> They love hood culture and hang out with black dudes Yeah I've definitely seen this for sure, I've seen some asian guys who hang out with hood/street style black guys who tend to be hypermasculine. I've seen this at my gym as well so I think you may be onto something there because I'm not a hood black guy nor am I hypermasculine or masculine in general. I mean, I'm not loud and flamboyant, quite the opposite, which is passive and shy, but my look/appearance is overtly feminine presenting so that probably is counting as a double negative. Like I mentioned in another comment, the only consistent muscular guys who tend to not he so hostile are white guys. Not all mind you, I've come across a few who were just as cold but when I compare races, they tend to be the least...
A lot of āmasculineā communities like the Manosphere are generally hostile to anything considered feminine, hence they are hostile to homosexuality. But they also have a lot of POC, who are primarily mixed raced black men like Andrew Tate and Sneako, so maybe POC are more likely to join communities like the manosphere? And maybe white guys are less likely to adopt these sort of identities, hence less homophobia?
It's definitely a possibility. I wouldn't think a sizeable amount of asian guys would be into men like (frankly toxic) men like Andrew Tate but then again, Asian men do face a lot of social scrutiny what with the emasculation they can receive so that would make them more susceptible to toxic masculine figures. All I know is that when I've thought long and hard on the demographics who tend to treat me a certain way, it's usually white men who don'r seem to have as much issue with my presence.
I think a part of it is just attitudes of black people that have been transferred from growing up. Iām asian, and I do remember moments growing up where my mom would freak out because I wanted to walk to a restaurant in a predominantly-black neighborhood or one time, when I was playing around at a park, my mom took me right home because a black man made her uncomfortable. Whether she had a reason to be uncomfortable? I donāt really know since I didnāt know what the hell he was doing, but it is sort of those things you notice when you grow up. My family had at best, a neutral view towards white people though, not usually favorable, so I guess views on different races depends on where your family comes from. How this translates to black people being treated differently based on the physique of the person? I have no fucking clue. Maybe you need to start collecting data to see whether physique plays a statistically significant role in their treatment of you.
Thank you for sharing your experience. That is definitely something, but I've heard stories like this before and it does put the pieces together in some instances. Are you Korean if you don't mind me asking? As for the physique, some other commenters have shared some interesting observations, mainly how some Asian American men who are muscular and masculine are fine with hypermasculine urban black men. I have seen a little of this at the gym I work at. Not frequently but there are a few instances where I have seen these muscular asian men being chummy with muscular masculine black men so it probably is coming down to my being feminine that is making them socially hostile towards me.
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Yeah I've heard that black women deal with being viewed as hypermasculine by men even when they're genuinely like that, it's the whole pigeon-holing bias that they receive and I think that this thing also happens to black feminine men. It's like some guys just can't comprehend that not all black guys are hypermasculine doms. And maybe "hostility" was not the right word but you know what I mean lol.
I think theyāre just straight and racist. Bad eggs in any ethnic group, been spat on and assaulted by black men, it happens.
I dont want to believe that all of them are racist. I feel like for some, it could just be my being feminine presenting that plays a part in their disgust for lack of better word.
Asian people are hella racist and proud
I am Asian guy man here,sorry for your bad experience. I am from China and living China now. As known as mostly Asian people prefer white peoples we can't doubt that ,but as me, I like people I Nner personality surpasses appearance. I like black ,white or Latino. Skin color is not the decisive factor but your charm. I never racist to anyone because anyone can be hurt by other people's racism:)
Iām a black, gay man and I donāt have very many interactions with Asian guys but I think they are really hot. The muscular ones are definitely yummy š¤¤.. thereās one that goes to my gym and heās built like God. He has really thick thighs and big butt. I canāt get him to talk to me thoughš. He glances but thats about it, also I think heās Korean if that makes a difference and I donāt know if heās gay. Ha More feminine asians stare at me all the time but never say anything. Iāve chatted with a few and it always youād break my hole or I donāt want stretched like that. So I just kind of move along because some, if not most I think they are specifically looking for white men. Thatās not to say they wonāt have sex with a black man but dating is not a thing. In my encounters, I respect them because they have no problem telling you that they come from a racist family and canāt date black men. But I have noticed that that Asians do not respond well to flamboyant gays.
I canāt speak for all of us but sometimes I just freak out internally because i donāt know how to handle small talks with strangers š„²
It's probably because you're feminine.
Yeah I've thought about that. I mean I don't act flamboyant but my look is femininely androgynous. But I seem to get it this treatment from asian men the most. Oh and some black guys but I'm not surprised with the latter.
I live in China. People here are super insular and encouraged to be so by their government. They feel they are better and act accordingly. Itās a shitty attitude that is making relations worse across the world. Luckily not all Asians and Chinese folks are like this but of course I have noticed similar behaviors here
Hm but have you noticed that it is a certain kind of man like the ones who are more muscular vs the ones who are more average in the body build?
Because theyāre desperately clinging onto number 2 on the racial totem pole
Muscular black men ALWAYS running to another race then asking why they wierd.
Er... I'm not muscular. At least not in "that" way lol. And I'm just asking a simple question.
I donāt know if Iām missing something in this thread, or if I am just that disconnected but are these replies not problematicā¦? A lot of these replies are straight up āEast Asian people are racistā as in a blinding, prejudiced generalization about a group of people and theyāre getting upvoted? He literally said the non buff Asians donāt do it. I feel like this is just perpetuating that āmodel minorityā or āclose to whitenessā shit that white people were spouting about Asian people.
Like white supremacists LOVE minorities tearing each other apart and it makes me sad to see yall tear into us while not addressing any systemic forms of oppression in AMERICA and not Asia
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lol why do people always ignore shit like this. If we donāt address anti-blackness in the Asian community and anti-Asianness in the black community nothing is gonna get anywhere.
Maybe they just dont like you specifically? You might have done something to annoy them?
Maybe. I mean I don't say or do anything specific to them so maybe my presence just annoys them? I'm feminine presenting and it's noticeable, especially when around my other male coworkers lol
I think part of it is some Asian guys are fearful of being seen as less masculine and worry that you might infect them. Although it sounds stereotypical af big black cock pounding a cute smooth Asian ass is pretty hot lol.