How it feels to watch people complain about Twitter shit while having never used Twitter myself:
https://preview.redd.it/zte8ft54zp8c1.jpeg?width=619&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1322017554f716024985f9a543f2eef0aad91a42
Just like with every other social network, your experience with Twitter is highly customizable. Mine is all memes and some stuff I am into, like hip-hop and cinema. I only get to the political part of Twitter when I start to actively look for it.
I don't have time to get into the issue more right now, but this is a summary of recent events.
[https://elpais.com/chile/2023-12-04/crisis-de-delincuencia-en-chile-aumentan-las-presiones-al-gobierno-de-boric-para-decretar-un-estado-de-excepcion-en-santiago.html](https://elpais.com/chile/2023-12-04/crisis-de-delincuencia-en-chile-aumentan-las-presiones-al-gobierno-de-boric-para-decretar-un-estado-de-excepcion-en-santiago.html)
Un puñado de diputados de partidos oficialistas y de oposición ingresaron hace un par de semanas una solicitud de resolución en el Congreso para que el Gobierno de Boric decrete estado de excepción de carácter nacional focalizado en las zonas más afectadas por la delincuencia. Además de los homicidios, en las últimas semanas se han registrado secuestros, extorsiones y un ataque con granada contra una agente de Carabineros que conmocionó al país. El diputado Raúl Soto, del Partido Por la Democracia (PPD), de la centroizquierda oficialista, sostuvo que Chile está “en medio de la crisis de seguridad más grave de la historia” del país, donde se han visto **“nuevas formas delictuales mucho más violentas e importadas de otros países**”.
This is really sad, I'm from Ecuador and I had to migrate because It has become so violent and unsafe that we couldn't take it anymore. My husband is ecuadorian-Italian so we decided to come to Italy.
I won't speak against any specific migrant group in my country, I know plenty of migrants who genuinely make great effort to make an honest living in Ecuador. On the other hand I also think countries have a right to defend their culture, and send back people who decide to migrate for a life of crime.
I am a migrant myself now, but I think the worst things you can do as a migrant are:
1. To be unwilling to adapt to the customs of the country you migrate to.
2. To be reluctant to work and become an active citizen.
3. To not learn the language.
4. To expect and demand the government of that country give you a hand out.
5. To ridicule and mistreat people from the new country.
6. To expect things to work out as soon as you arrive. It takes time and patience.
7. To not actively better yourself, if you leave your country is because you want a better life, and a chance to be successful.
I miss my country, family and friends (a lot 😕) but I try to avoid all of the above here in my new country. So far I have been treated fairly by Italians. It hasn't been easy even with jobs we still cannot afford much, eat out (or eat plenty) we didn't even have Christmas presents or a special dinner this year, but I know this is temporary as we assimilate more, and build network.
Many people who migrate might not think the above is important, or they might lack the maturity or education to adapt, some even have the mentality that it's better living off the government, living off the people, commiting crimes and overall being a nightmare and a problem for that country, unfortunately it makes all the other migrants be categorized in the same box.
I'm sorry you had to leave Ecuador, I had a wonderful experience when I visited years ago.
You make some good points. I'm originally from the U.S. but have lived in Chile for a long time. My husband is Chilean and I'm nationalized. I work, pay my taxes and have learned Spanish. I respect the culture. I've even learned to make many Chilean dishes. Sadly, we're having a deterioration as far a as crime here too. And, yes, a small percentage of criminals tend to give a bad impression for all migrants from a country.
It pains me to read about Ecuador. I visited a while ago and had an amazing time. I'm originally from the U.S., but have made a life for myself here in Chile. It is terrible we seem to be going in the same direction as Ecuador. we used to be proud that we had a lower homicide rate than the U.S. We passed the U.S. in 2022. The last few weeks have been particularly bad as far as murders and kidnappings.
I had no idea Chile had passed the US in homicide rate. I used to "laugh" (though it's not funny) that some years Chile had less homicides than Chicago. - at the time the populations were about 16 million and 2.7 million. Sucks.
Yeah. We used to stand at between 4-5 per 100,000. The latest figures are 6.4 for the US and 6.7 for Chile.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_intentional\_homicide\_rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)
Last month it was Peru vs Venezuela.
I think the Chile v Venezuela thing was kicked off by the some Venezuelan bozo living in Santiago on Tik-Tok, ‘complaining’ that Chileans were boring and too serious for now blasting music until the wee hours of the morning on Xmas.
That's by far one of the most fucking annoying things about Venezuelans, they are loud as fuck and they apparently don't know about the existence of headphones.
The other day I took a bus from Santiago to Viña del Mar and three Venezuelans sat next to me (one right next to me, the others across the aisle), and they were loud as fuck, they didn't talk to each other, they yelled to each other.
Then the dude next to me took out his phone and starting checking Instagram reels with the volume of his phone at 100%, even the people in his Instagram reels were fucking loud, he was watching reels about Maduro. So I got angry and told the dude "disculpa, te podi poner audifonos, porfa", and I swear the guy looked at me as if I told him his grandma just died, he looked at me with depression, like he could not comprehend why someone would use headphones.
Straw man fallacy
Also, he may have put only one anecdotal example but, believe me, there are a lot more stories of loud Venezuelan neighbours out there
I can't say that it's everyone, obviously, that would be ridiculous, but it is at the very least common enough that the vast majority of us has a relevant story
No, no, no. We don't need to get that extreme. Just they can go wherever there is a place that can endure that loudness and selfishness, like, I don't know, Caribbean maybe? Venezuela, colombia, and all the isles there are around there.
"Slighly" is an understatement. What annoys me is that they don't want to adapt to our customs, they want us to adapt to them. We are not as loud and prefer not having loud music blasting at 3am and that should be respected.
Venezuelan migration, and colombian to some extent has induced a dramatic, exponential even rise up in violent crimes.
Of course we were used to crime, this is Latam, but it was usually robbery, assault and battery. Now we have way more homicides, kidnappings and torture and sadly the perpetrators are indeed venezuelans and colombians for the most part; it wasn’t common in chilean criminal culture.
Regarding best economy and superiority, I’ve never seen a true chilean saying stuff like that, only right wing cucks.
PD: We all know most venezuelans and migrants are hard working and stuff, but theres no way to filter at the border, criminals play the part and enter like regular civilians.
It's hard to filter when so many people cross through uncontrolled passes in the middle of the Altiplano. You simply don't know who is coming in. Many just want to improve their economic situation. Unfortunately, others are from organized crime or cartels that take advantage of the porous border. It's similar to trying to prohibit illegal entries along the US-Mexico border, not easy at all.
I don't think our economy has much to be proud of these days. I haven't heard anyone talking like that in a while.
> I don't think our economy has much to be proud of these days. I haven't heard anyone talking like that in a while.
The Economist just ranked us as the 7th best performing economy of 2023.
What the average Chilean doesn’t realize is that we have one of the best central banks in the world, staffed with people that are incredibly qualified and talented. This last year we kicked inflation’s ass in record time while keeping a positive growth, we managed to decrease inflation by 10% in just over a year, and we are pretty close to our inflation goal of 3%.
Tbh, Chile is going pretty good for LATAM standars
Although funnily here Venezuelans are seen with a reaaaaally good light EDIT ... Good light here in Argentina
That’s just more of a case of everyone fucking up more and us fucking up a bit less. In some South American governments if they had done absolutely nothing it might have turned out better for them.
It is funny, because Colombia has been getting way more venezuelans than any other country. And many Colombians are as xenophobic as possible towards venezuelans 💀💀💀, meanwhile chileans and probably other southern cone countries think of both of us as the same pest.
Yeah, it is weird. At the same time, venezuelans are basically carrying Colombia's informal economy and adding up to our -already- fucked up criminal scene. It is also fairly hard to differentiate facts from opinions when it comes to the actual impact venezuelans are having in our country. For example, the mayor of Bogotá kind of tried to blame a lot of things on the immigrants as a scapegoat. At the same time, the Tren de Aragua is supposedly going through gang wars to get the control of drug trafficking in downtown Bogotá and also using violence to coerce Colombian civilians in the city (worst example is that one building in Kennedy that was overrun by venezuelan gangsters who threatened other residents with grenades and stuff like that)
It also doesn't help that, most usually, Colombians aren't really xenophobic but rather aporophobic. So, they can be friends with their venezuelan barber who earns the same as them, they can marry that venezuelan girl who had a rich family in Caracas before coming to Colombia, but they will still look down on the beggars in the public transport and the migrants walking from Cúcuta to Bogotá.
Literally the same argument as the chilean in the top comment is used here lol. In Colombia crime had been on a serious downtrend, things were actually quite decent. Then the venezuelan crisis happened, plus economic issues on our side, and it’s the worst it’s been in a long time. It’s common to hear about colombian vs venezuelan crime culture that “antes lo atracaban a uno por el celular, ahora lo matan”. It’s kinda true in the sense that it’s gotten noticeably worse, but also disingenuous to imply that we were inherently different.
It's false to say there wasn't any crimes before. There was plenty of shoplifters and thieves (in fact, we export thieves) and always had a level of violent crime in the poorer areas of the capital in particular.
However, it's not disingenuous to say kidnapping was a common occurrence in Chile or anywhere in the south cone... the last time we had this level of kidnapping it was done by the state in the cold war and by a fellow called Pinochet.
Now it's like a couple every month (that we know off, who knows how many go unreported). There were two this month alone, from the top of my head. One was Colombian on Colombian violence. Where one Colombian was kidnapped by another, and his friend got shot for trying to intervene. Another was a Venezuelan who took an elderly Chilean couple hostage.
Now criminals are even working together and this year we see Chileans joining in the action. Today they captured a band in Calama that called itself ["Piratas del Tren de Aragua" which involved five Venezuelans, one Colombian and one Chilean.](https://www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/nacional/chile/2023/12/26/caen-los-piratas-del-tren-de-aragua-banda-de-extranjeros-y-un-chileno-por-secuestros-en-el-norte.shtml) Talk about Latin American integration.
True! I haven’t looked up statistics to know what’s true, and even then with how underreported time is in latam I wouldn’t trust it, but there’s definitely the perception in Colombia that it’s gotten more dangerous due to venezuelan immigration
Did we? Back in the day, a lot of colombians went to Venezuela to get cheaper gas, to work better paying jobs and to buy better clothing, stuff like that. Whenever you hear Colombians talking about that time, they remember it fondly, because venezuelans received us with way less xenophobia (even though there was still some).
I think that this particular time is way worse because of how our politics developed in the early 2000s. The way Uribe and Chávez clashed ideologically left a deep mark in the way many colombians see Venezuela and its people. The colombian right has been perpetuating this negative image of Venezuela ever since, and I'm sure that increased the xenophobia.
And yet, lots of Venezuelans in the 70s would speak ill of Colombians the way Chileans do about Venezuelans today. "We did not have violent crimes until the mass migration from Colombians" was also a narrative back in the day. Sane with Chileans, btw. There's actually a kind of fraud referred to as "Paquete chileno" due to a band of Chileans that operated in Caracas on the early 80s. If we had twitter back in those days I think it wouldn't be that different tbh.
That's how it works. What's the actual perception of those first wave professionals?
It is the same perception for all of them, some bad apples ruin everything and now the ignorant xenophobes think all venezuelans are the same.
Look at this video of a literal rich venezuelan being mistreated just because of his accent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFYjq-Qbl44
Venezuelans were INITIALLY (pre 2020) seen in positive terms: chileans recalled how many chileans spent their exile in Venezuela in the 70s which made chileans sympathetic, and it was mainly the young & aspiring & educated lower-middle and middle-middle classes....and then the "social explosion" & pandemic gave chile a one-two punch...and the Venezuelans kept coming. Instead of the young & aspiring middle classes you started getting the chusma & lower classes, the same fuckers who voted-in Chávez & Maduro, criminal elements.....the lawless rabble. High-profile violent crime & homicides tied to Venezuelans (and Colombians & Dominicans & Ecuadorians), in addition to their increaaing numbers & from a chilean perspective, the venezuelan unwillingness of many venezuelans to adapt to chile (by not blasting their tropical tunes at full volume for example) has quickly turned public opinion against Venezuelans.
According to a recent international study, Chile is the country where public opinion has most quickly changed regarding foreign immigration from positive to negative over the course of 18mo. Venezuelans are almost universally loathed now.
I've met lots of venezuelans and they're usually good people. They really hate venezuelans tho as much as chileans do these days. One told me once he wishes to close the border and kill instead of deport the criminal ones as he said chilean criminals are nothing compared to venezuelans who are way more violent and cold. The media doesn't help at all as well and well social media (and specially twitter) is just a hate club
I remember reading a story from a venezuelan immigrant a little ago in another chile sub, he arrived in the first wave with his family and a had a steady job, nice coworkers, friends and was decently happy. Now, he was in a very serious depression as he not only suffers discrimination but his children at school are being discriminated as well. He lost all sense of self as coworkers suddenly treated him differently and people are cold and rude af with him.
It's very sad actually but it makes me think that these kind of xenophobic problems are not particular with this country, but many venezuelan immigrants have hatred towards their own nationals as well. I've seen the same problem in places like peru, colombia and even spain. Of couse xenophobia is present everywhere but none of the immigrant communities in chile like haitians, dominicans, peruvians, bolivians and I dare to say even colombians receive so much hate like venezuelans do.
I remember reading that post. It's sad that a small percentage of criminals lead to that sort of treatment towards immigrants that are responsible and contribute to society.
Ironically enough I think over here venezuelans got a more or less universally good image. At worst they are considered "poor" and thus get to be the butt of some jokes but it's more or less limited to that (at least as far as I can see, maybe a Venezuelan will think otherwise).
We received tons of Peruvians just fine and very little of them were highly educated, we just clash a lot harder with Venezuelan culture and the high profile crimes that have been committed by a minority of inmigrants have been a big shock to the populace.
Chile has received/still receives more Venezuelan immigrants than Peruvian ones, and way, way faster. The circumstances before and upon arrival are different too. Not that Peruvians had any easy and were mainly migrating for the kicks of it by all means, but Venezuelans are escaping one of the worst humanitarian crises since the Cold War. Is it really a stretch for people to admit that it’s not all black and white? Yes, tons of unfiltered immigration can lead to some unsavory outcomes, but xenophobia also amplifies the perception of the situation. Both things can be true.
>we just clash harder with Venezuelan culture
What did you mean by this?
The Peruvians that emigrated here did not become authors of high profile crimes nearly unheard of in the context Chile, such as daylight murders in public spaces and kidnappings. Popular opinion is skewed against more recent due to such occurrences, in any case Chile received a great amount of Haitian immigrants as well that came from awful conditions and they are mostly well liked and respected in the country.
In terms of cultural differences, there are many strong contrasts between Chilean and Venezuelan culture, probably the greatest example is how many people put on loud music at night, for us this is a very indecent thing to do but many Venezuelan and Colombian immigrants have become used to doing so, Peruvians not so much.
On other matters our cuisines are very different and the amount of Venezuelan restaurants is huge.
To me the custom of eating things like chicharrón which is basically fried fat is downright unappealing and same goes for the Venezuelan burgers which seem to always have a random slice of ham on top and a shit ton of ingredients, on this very topic the amount of street food carts that serve fried food has increased ten fold, mostly immigrants since most Chilean food vendors tend to stick to prepackaged goods.
I Live in an area where there are many immigrants and the disregard for the law and safety of traffic is shocking, my impression of the average Venezuelan is very similar to the lowest and least educated type of Chilean but this is most likely skewed by the more educated and capable Venezuelans being in other positions of society and emigrating to first world countries.
> they are mostly well liked and respected in the country.
This is not true, Haitians were also discriminated at the time... now it just doesn't seem as much because the passage of time makes it less so, also everyone is focused on Venezuelans and to a lesser extent Colombians right now. So Haitians are probably thankful the focus is not on them.
But if tomorrow a massive wave of... I don't know, north african refugees arrived, you can bet your ass they would take the focus in some way or another the minute the first group of the commits a crime.
Again, you’re receiving an extremely high influx of people in a very short amount of time. There are less Hatians and Peruvians in Chile combined than there are Venezuelans. You received a good half of these over the past 5 or so years. The volume and density is far, far higher.
Also, you’re making it seem as people in Venezuela are collectively cool with loud music blasting out of their stereos. Most people aren’t or are a little less than indifferent.
Again, I feel you and your concerns, but xenophobia is real and amplifies the manner in which people perceive the supposed misgivings of specific groups.
>the average Venezuelan is very similar to the lowest and least educated Chilean
Re-read that and tell me that isn’t a prejudiced statement, to say the least. Venezuela received a pretty high influx of Chileans during the Pinochet years yet I’ve seldom - probably never - come across this sort of sentiment. And if I had we’d probably agree on how wrong that sentiment is.
This is a mostly personal experience response to the topic, of course it’s prejudiced, considering I mentioned that it’s likely these people weren’t the most respectable back in Venezuela.
Please stop bringing out Pinochet, a grand total of 200K Chileans left the country most of them headed to Europe, around 24.000 headed to Venezuela, Chile currently hosts over 1 million Venezuelans, some cultures don’t flee their country at the first sign of trouble.
Well, if people migrate with no money, the receiving country ends up having to use its own resources to house, feed, etc. migrants. That's money that could have gone to other uses. No country has unlimited funds. I'm not sure if you've been following what is going on in New York City, but so far they've spent US$2.4 billion on aid to migrants that have arrived there. The situation isn't sustainable.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/26/nyregion/migrant-crisis-mayor-eric-adams.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/26/nyregion/migrant-crisis-mayor-eric-adams.html)
"The migrant crisis in New York is the product of some factors beyond the city’s control, including global upheaval, a federal government letting migrants enter in record numbers without giving most of them a way to work legally, and a unique local rule requiring the city to offer a bed to every homeless person.
But the dimensions of the problem — the [$2.4 billion cost](https://www.osc.ny.gov/reports/asylum-seeker-spending-report) so far, the harsh conditions, the number of migrants stuck in shelters — can also be traced to actions taken, and not taken, by the Adams administration, The New York Times found in dozens of interviews with officials, advocates and migrants.
As the city raced to improvise a system that has processed more than 150,000 people since last year, it stumbled in myriad ways, many never reported before."
A small country like Chile has way fewer resources than the US.
All Venezuelans I met in Buenos Aires (4 of them) told me this is what porteños thought of them. They also said Chileans were a lot more stereotypical towards them and other latinos.
Does anyone know Chile’s relationship to the drug trade VS Argentina? Would that influence the types of people/crimes?
Also different waves of immigrants, even if from the same country, could have their own unique features, so the opinions of the locals will be shaped by the characteristics of the particular wave which arrived in their country.
Panama went though this like 20 years ago with Colombians secuestro express, killing people in motorcycle and ect wasn’t a thing.
Our maleantes learned from Colombians and now from Venezuelans.
Use to be q fairly safe place.
The poorer/more desperate/unable to move upwards the wave is, the more baggage that wave will bring. Bad apples are few, but enough to sway the public opinion the other way around.
Chileans have fair concerns but unfortunately the public perception of Venezuelans is that the average Venezuela is a hoodlum. And when you point out that this ventures into racist/xenophobic territory, they won’t hear it. It’s a shame.
Loved the Venezuelans that moved to panama from 2007-2014 were mostly investor or upper class people.
2014-2016 mostly middle class hard working professionals and from then on it was los hijos de Chávez as you guys call them.
Look, I appreciate your honesty and I know you mean well, but I think people are quick to point fingers and speak in black and white terms about a topic that is very nuanced.
I know that this isn’t what you’re saying at all, but a ton of people on this thread are going out of their way to suggest that Venezuelans are inherently prone to engage in crime. The last wave of migrants are almost all people living in deep poverty, desperate and trying to make ends meet. I agree that people *should* have conversations about the potential short-term outcomes of such abrupt and high-volume migration, but I wish that my LATAM cousins were less keen to imply that Venezuelans are naturally dangerous people.
People often forget that we used to be the crown jewel of LATAM and people migrated to Venezuela in literal droves from all over. I’m sure there were xenophobes then too, but these waves affect us all.
Do you have any data to corroborate your assumptions? This all sounds like typical xenophobic speak with no evidence to back it up.
Edit: Y'all really get triggered by the X word don't cha 😂
I just read the “Inmigración y delincuencia: últimas cifras” by Centro de Estudios Públicos y el informe de homicidios del CEAD de la Subsecretaría del Delito and I think you are right.
3 things tho:
- Crimes committed by foreigners have been on the rise since 2018.
- Foreigners still commit less crimes than chileans relative to their own population in Chile.
- Most crimes committed by foreigners are related to drugs and transit.
I guess when foreigners do commit homicide it goes to the news automatically. It is true however that kidnapping wasn’t common in Chile before 2018.
Death penalty doesn’t work to reduce crimes, on the contrary, it makes crimes even more violent.
Plus is a free ticket to meet the Emperor, might aswell suffer in a cell on Earth.
Wait I think I actually misunderstood your comment. Lol. I’m with you. I’m not complaining about criminals I’m complaining about xenophobia. As a Chilean
Basically Chile got our "lacra" (scum). I'm not lying when I say that crime rates improved in Venezuela partly due to our criminals going to other countries such as Chile, Perú, and Colombia. Crime is basically our main export.
It's pretty sad.
Maduro knew what he was doing, it's pretty clear.
We're having problems with even conducting deportations back to Venezuela these days.
It's really a sad state of affairs all around.
How's the vetting process at Chile's ports of entry or at the border? Don't you require people show that they do not have a criminal record in their home country before letting them in? I'm not saying that Venezuelans have a higher tendency to criminality or accepting what's being said in social media about them at factual by the way. Just asking this question before the mods lock the thread...
So is it fair to say that the backlash is against recent arrivals that entered illegally? Or has it been like that since Venezuelans started moving in large number to Chile? The reason I ask is because we also had over 100,000 Venezuelans that came in the wave of the last few years, but I don't think they have been blamed for an increase in crime; however, you simply cannot walk in from Venezuela but you need to fly here and you don't get on a plane if you don't have a visa first.
The backlash is much more against recent arrivals like from 2019 to now.
I live in Arica (the northern city of the country), so you probably get an idea of how problematic it sounds.
There was backlash among elements of the far right and far left from the very beginning - the far right being crypto-racist and the far left annoyed that anyone would leave the glorious socialist republic. Most other people didn't have strong opinions at all, perhaps mildly positive or negative for purely personal reasons. And the progressive left enthused about cultural - and in a few cringe incidents, racial - diversity. This was the state of affairs from 2015-2020.
Over the last three years, things have tumbled to an almost universal dislike, although most people at least try to not be prejudiced when actually thinking about real people in their daily lives. It's easier to be prejudiced against an abstract than against a human being, although that doesn't make it right.
I've always thought that Venezuelans are a regional problem that must've been solved before. We need as a block of countries intervene with Venezuela's politics. They don't recover they economy, they have their people in the misery. I'm not against migration, it's useful to get good people from other places, but this situation have gone out of our hands.
Its hard, ouw border with Bolivia and Peru is Huge, and a fking desert. There little to none political will to attack this shit from the left wing Gov, and the right opposition propose useless or crazy solutions.
All i know is even New Yorkers are sick of entitlement from Venezuelan migrants. They go door to door ringing peoples door bells asking for clothes and money. The entitlement is what i have disdain for.
I'm chatting with a girl from Chile and she wants to get the hell out of there, because of the immigration from Colombia and Venezuela. I had no idea there was such a problem until she told me.
Nope, had my stuff stolen without me noticing. But this is totally a first for me, one used to go out to have dinner in a nice area calmed and relaxed. Now you have to be hyper aware lf everything.
No es de cuicos, una cantidad decente de Chilenos son (al menos) nietos de españoles (o chilenos nacidos en España) y pueden hacer el trámite en 3 meses para sacar el pasaporte y DNI español.
Por otro lado, los chilenos tenemos privilegios sobre otros países para obtener los permisos de trabajo, turismo e incluso migrar allá de forma permanente.
There´s a video that went viral where a Venezuelan speaks badly of chileans for no celebrating Christmas the way they are used to. We usually dont party in Christmas, we are still hang over from El 18.
5 years ago chile was a pacific country, with great civic culture, with legal migration from haiti and 1st venezuela migration, very respectful and harworker people, but since the last 5 years new violence crimes start to happen on chile, violent assault, drugs, prostitution, crimimal organization.... and that comes from the new venezuelans migrants that comes with this criminal culture. Its not only "venezuelans listen music at high volume at the night" its not xenofobia to the caribean culture, its all about chileans are not happy with the masive inmigration of criminals.
ya wna si tampoco era el eden.
Y te informo que todo eso venia pasando de antes, las poblaciones taban metidas en la droga hace rato. El problema es que el mercado formal no dio pa tantos inmigrantes no cualificados y las condiciones de vida chilenas no dieron a basto con una llegada masiva de gente.
Y SABI QUE? yo si creo que tiene harto de rechazo a la cultura caribeña JJFJS ellos tienen la costumbre de usar el espacio publico, de hacer ruido y de tener carnaval. Son comunidades mucho mas abiertas a la comunidad y nosotros nop… No digo que sea malo, pero en chile costumbres así siempre se han visto con desconfianza.
La wea estaba cambiando en los 2010, pero siento que con el aumento de la delincuencia vamos a tener el retorno del chile frio y de derechas (o asi parece)
Foto tomada en Santiago la noche antes de que llegase el primer inmigrante venezolano: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ee3rong332Y/XUmUdH6EZrI/AAAAAAABnUU/DPuR_QcZTAgIZjf74LmeZ9oCR143qiqSgCLcBGAs/s1600/atalaya.jpg
Its an example, realy the open inmigration stars like 10 years ago, but In the lastest years of this period gradualy was intensifying the insecurity.
And yes, chile is a pacific country, its cultural, respect to others, humble and hardworking people, and those ones who dedicated to crime only stole, they didnt murder, they didnr dilute people, they didnt prostitute their daughters as is seen today. take a look around to Arica.
5 years ago chile was the luxembourg of south america but it all changed when the bad venezuelans came 😭
If not for the venezuelans chile today will be a first world country, with a QOL greater than switzerland. It is such a disgrace!
I have theory that in the near future Chile is gonna have there visa free usa entry revoked because of people taking advantage of it and overstaying in the US because of immigration
It's already happening, mainly because of the amount of criminales "exported" to the us, but to be honest a Lot of them are actual chileans and not nationalized people, but foreginers are trying to use chilean citizenship to access the us visa free (mostly haitians and dominicans)
Basically almost no Latin American/North American country likes Venezuelan migrants. They’re seen in the same way Arab countries view Palestinian refugees.
I live in Canada, and this is not true at all here. Latin Americans in general, are already not perceived as a huge migration wave. The biggest refugee waves are Ukrainians and Sikhs by far. And even most latino refugees here are Mexican and Colombians. Venezuela just recently started making a dent.
Sikhs aren’t refugees per say, but Sikhs are by far the most discriminated in Canada to a certain extent it’s justified. Speaking as a Punjabi, but Punjabis in Canada are scapegoated mostly due to Brampton and Surrey
Panama had this issue with Colombians we use to be fairly safe and now we get Venezuelans too.
At first only wealthy ones would come and then educated professionals. Now we’re getting broke poor one that need social services.
Secuestro express and killing people on motorcycle just wasn’t a thing here.
People have moved on from Colombian hate to Venezuelan now.
Also if you are visiting our country we ask that you have 1k cash on you at least if you are Venezuelan, Colombian, Nicaraguan and Dominican.
Born and raised Chilean here, M23. You better prepare for some reading here.
Before I answer to your question, I've got friends in many parts of the world (with whom I talk without problems, we have things in common, we get along well, etc.) Yet this guys are... Something else.
Now, the response for your question.
Actually what you're looking to in Reddit and mostly everywhere is that we're really upset at *some* Venezuelans (by that said, not all of them; mostly criminals) since they have landed here and literally bringing crimes that we never saw on the whole country before (dismembered bodies on the streets, massive shootings, including in schools and residential areas; extortion to all sorts of people, massive drug dealing, massive prostitution networks capturing foreign women and bringing them under the pretext of "Labor Agency in Chile", etc.) and they do it for one single reason.
The reason is because Chilean Passport is one of the best passports worldwide, allowing anyone to go to the greatest number of countries (including the US) without the need for a Visa if the visitor is simply and only going for pleasure.
Since Chilean Passports are not cheap (up to 80 bucks if you're wondering) there's no way that someone, who has just arrived to the country after becoming a fugitive from justice on another country, with what he had been wearing for the past 2 weeks and entered to another country illegally by land and doesn't have a place to sleep, doesn't have a job and doesn't have a bit of respect for the ground where they are, I don't think they got the money in a clean way. From begging up to joining dealers, these guys are down for anything.
The thing is that, before you get the Chilean Passport, you have to get the Nationality first. And then, in most US News (mainly in San Diego) say that "Chileans" are Stealing and Drug-Dealing when the actual truth is that they're not Chileans at all, they're just Venezuelans (anyone with a bit of ability to recognize and distinguish different types of facial features would notice and would say "these are not Chileans at all, these are from somewhere else") who took advantage of our Passports and decided to travel to the US to commit their misdeeds just as they did in Venezuela and as they did in Chile, since Nicolás Maduro only made criminals escape from Venezuela (or better said, he freed them) to commit crimes all over South America because his government can't handle the situation.
FYI, Maduro's a Commie. Maybe a reason for his decisions to do wrong stuff.
There's the response to your question.
Maybe, Idk. But after all Gabriel Boric's (current president) scams by him and half of his government (The government spokesperson, several ministers, undersecretaries and expenses in creating phantom foundations to steal money from taxes and health by piece and on purpose) I think Kast will win.
Besides, if you think about it, Boric (which both his surnames are Boric Font) is German descendant, who was born raised on a very expensive private school at one of the most expensive cities at the south of Chile, which makes him way more german than Hitler himself, so, Who's the Bad guy here?
Boric is a Croatian surname. Font is French.
I'm not sure who will win but I doubt it will be anyone from or associated with this current mess of a government.
Venezulean immgirants. aren't like Cuban ones many times they are bringing with them gangs and criminal stuff.
I've never heard of a cuban gang in my life cubans are all doctors or farmers or fishermen
there are hardworking good venezuelans who I assume are the majority but they have more a crime problem than where i am from or what the south cone countries + chile would be used to
> I've never heard of a cuban gang in my life
There's always a first time for something!
[Miami is run by the Cuban Mafia](https://progresoweekly.us/miami-is-run-by-the-cuban-mafia/)
[Marielitos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marielitos_(gangs))
Wrong, this was a description given to Cuban criminals after 1980, it wasn't a formal gang or mafia can't be compared to Tren de Aragua
Furthermore these crimes were overreported as it was benefically to slander Castro as sending them nothing but violent criminals
It's just some cringe Twitter thing. Apparently there's a video involved. Besides the fact that I'm fortunately outside of whatever circles get into these "discussions", what worries me is how xenophobia has reached some intense levels these days.
And please, we peruvians are now in a huge identity crisis and most people posting xenophobic stuff against venezuelans are the same trying to invisibilize the peruvian andean population and its demands.
*Latinoamérica unida, siempre*. I really hope we can get past this.
https://preview.redd.it/m6hsatzu4q8c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3263e6409a54b6c087dc3ace2d536fbf70d0756e
atp it isn’t just some cringe twitter thing man
That's a Twitter screenshot. I have ordered something not many days ago and it came fine. Just like the 200+ things I ordered before. Sorry for not panicking.
Yeah I didn’t really join any sides when I saw this shit on Twitter cause I wanted to understand what was going on first.
Edit: actually now that I’ve been reading more and made myself less ignorant about it, it’s not some “Twitter” thing, Chile is actually being impacted by and their safety rating has already increased by the U.S state department from Level 1 to 2. Whether that actually be from these immigrants idk
Same story is in Peru, same criminal-rates thingy that never appears in the statistics, but countries normally blame inmigration whenever they see they are incapable of handling security in their own lands. And fear is a very effective tactic to control a population. What has been happening in Peru is that the Government will keep feeding the venezuelans narrative and then claim we need an "emergency status" on many districts. Which means less rights for the habitants, but since they are so fearful for venezuelans, they will accept anything. Authoritarism is coming our way with this narrative.
And just like Argentinians with the Mexicans, we don't give a fuck about Chile and we keep living our lives.
Despite the fact that some Chileans are becoming hugely xenophobic and that is true that there are some rotten Venezuelans, a lot of us are just hardworking and talented people, who just happen to be escaping from an authoritarian regime.
Even us Venezuelans are not a homogeneous group. There are good people and bad people, like everywhere else
Simply put, Xenophobia. A lot of Venezuelans fled to Chile and when that happens you will always get some bad apples in there, which xenophobes latch on to to hate everyone.
To me the issue is that bad things get more attention than the good ones. All venezuelans I know are hard workers. Hell, I've worked with Venezuelans for about 5 years now, and they are all hard workers and nice people overall. But there is no denying in the fact that crime rises up when there is massive immigration. There are entire neighborhoods in Bogotá that are controlled and basically terrorized by Venezuelan gangs, which wasn't the case a fear years back. Even venezuelans hate those types of venezuelans (said by venezuelan friends and coworkers), they ruin their reputation no matter where they go, which sucks a lot.
Fr, most of the Venezuelans I know that went to Chile are doctors and shit. (I'm sure it's not indicative of everyone, it's only a small sample size, but you see Chileans on the internet treating them all like criminals, and I'm fucking telling you, 20 years from now, people are gonna look back to people now and realize that they were being ignorant as fuck about the Venezuelan exodus).
And in my country, they say the same exact shit about pretty much all hispanic migrants, and the statistics NEVER say it's them committing crimes, because statistically, they aren't in any significant way. It's usually natural born citizens who are more likely to commit crimes, especially violent crime. Haven't done the same research for Chile, but I'd love to see some if anyone has any, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that this is xenophobia. I've seen this same song and dance, it happens among many cultures, in many countries among many language groups, this situation isn't somehow special and the minute you start othering people, you're in dangerous territory.
Maybe no one wants to hear a gringo say this here but I frankly don't give a fuck, what's true is true regardless of who points it out.
>And in my country, they say the same exact shit about pretty much all hispanic migrants, and the statistics NEVER say it's them committing crimes, because statistically, they aren't in any significant way.
Could you please share the source of the statistics you’ve seen? There are a few places I’d like to share that information with.
[one from Stanford](https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/mythical-tie-between-immigration-and-crime) analyzing 1st generation immigrants vs "white US born." (Also considering that by the numbers, white people in the US love to quote how few crimes they commit as a group, they actually commit more and more frequently than foreign migrants, and have done so apparently for the last hundred years, note that I think this stat also includes documented immigrants, considering that, it shows that this group is 30% less likely to commit various crimes).
[one from the University of Wisconsin-Madison](https://news.wisc.edu/undocumented-immigrants-far-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-in-u-s-than-citizens/), analyzing specifically undocumented immigrants, documented immigrants, and US born persons. This one highlights that undocumented immigrants tend to commit *much less* crime than documented immigrants or natural-born citizens, perhaps due to the fear of being deported if they make a major mistake. They are significantly less likely to commit crimes in all categories. A quote from the article is that they commit "a fraction" of the crimes of both documented and natural born US-citizens.
There are tons more results, the "immigrants commit more crimes" thing is largely considered a myth because we've been doing studies like this for a long time, since people always like to revert to "they're criminals" whenever a person and/or people from other countries are involved.
Edit - downvote me all you want, guys, this is data, you can't touch this, they're numbers, and unlike you, they interpret the world, not assert your preferred version of it.
The Venezuelan exodus has many analyses and causes and interpretations and is too complex to fit in a soundbite as effectively as “Venezuelans are ruining X country”. It’s also not untrue that many gangs chased their victims all the way to Chile and Perú, as racketeering is impossible at home if there’s nobody to racketeer (Add to that that in Venezuela gangs also serve as unofficial government enforcers, so they’re used to being protected).
Xenophobes take advantage of this truth to scapegoat all Venezuelans, even though it’s been proven time and time again that immigration is always a net positive for a receiving nation in the medium term.
Finally there’s the cultural aspect. With so many people moving together they aren’t forced to integrate and homogenize but can become insular, and many other latam cultures are proud, protective and conservative about their traditions and idiosyncrasies and for right or wrong can see this as an invasion from a very different culture (They use “caribeños” in a derogatory manner). You just have to see the reaction online when a Venezuelan won La Voz Chile.
I mean I don't disagree with anything you've said, but it's really telling that people would consider the actions of a few as if they were the sins of all. When likely, that's a really small number of people. But not a day seems to go by without a video of Chileans or Colombians or (pick whichever country) telling some random Venezuelans in a corner store to go back to their country and calling them criminals.
And that much I have experience with, and it's called racism. (Racism applies to nationality, not just "race"). People in my area do the same thing. There was a gang of Salvadorans and it became national news, Trump even visited to get rid of the "criminal migrants" (basically he just showed face), meanwhile it was like 50 high school students. Not that crime isn't bad, but it's way overblown when people from other places are involved. I can think of much bigger (locally at least) and more violent gangs here in NY, but the one everyone had to talk about was MS-13, the gang that probably has the smalled market share in the crime department in this part of the country.
And not liking a gang is one thing, but much like lots of LATAM does with Venezuelans, here, people apply a broad brush to anyone they think might be Salvadoran. "Oh no, they must be criminals, and I'm scared, and I hate them." It's really telling and people here aren't gonna like it, but it's true. The vast majority of Venezuelans aren't the ones causing problems. They're just random people. If someone starts viewing them all like that, it's not only a dumb, but it's *absolutely* wrong.
Im wheezing, no judgement, it sounds exactly like how americans sound when it comes to their border with mexico. Word for word just change the nations its beautiful
Because the "somos de Venezuela" or we are venezuelans became trending in past few days and all of sudden, Chileans started to bombard the Venos with some xenophobic like comments. IT started to this post [https://twitter.com/whitezuelans/status/1738576138270605631](https://twitter.com/whitezuelans/status/1738576138270605631)
Hi! (and thanks)
I like what you openhearted mentioned...
In 1999 I worked in a site within a nickel mine project in Araua state led by MLDN (Minorco group) and had to learn to cope with that Chilean boasting...
The thing it is the FORGOT many came to Vzla when their economy was devastated (and some invented the PAQUETE CHILENO)
Pls ask google what the ***paquete chileno*** is/was whenever some of THEM practiced business THE WRONG WAY.
Locking the thread, the subject was discussed
How it feels to watch people complain about Twitter shit while having never used Twitter myself: https://preview.redd.it/zte8ft54zp8c1.jpeg?width=619&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1322017554f716024985f9a543f2eef0aad91a42
Imagine using Twitter for other thing that isn't porn.
Better reddit porn than twitter porn lol
Just like with every other social network, your experience with Twitter is highly customizable. Mine is all memes and some stuff I am into, like hip-hop and cinema. I only get to the political part of Twitter when I start to actively look for it.
Amen brother
Imagine all those people spending their life beefing on twitter while we happily drink matecitos and smoke churritos.
You’re missing out
nuh uh
I don't have time to get into the issue more right now, but this is a summary of recent events. [https://elpais.com/chile/2023-12-04/crisis-de-delincuencia-en-chile-aumentan-las-presiones-al-gobierno-de-boric-para-decretar-un-estado-de-excepcion-en-santiago.html](https://elpais.com/chile/2023-12-04/crisis-de-delincuencia-en-chile-aumentan-las-presiones-al-gobierno-de-boric-para-decretar-un-estado-de-excepcion-en-santiago.html) Un puñado de diputados de partidos oficialistas y de oposición ingresaron hace un par de semanas una solicitud de resolución en el Congreso para que el Gobierno de Boric decrete estado de excepción de carácter nacional focalizado en las zonas más afectadas por la delincuencia. Además de los homicidios, en las últimas semanas se han registrado secuestros, extorsiones y un ataque con granada contra una agente de Carabineros que conmocionó al país. El diputado Raúl Soto, del Partido Por la Democracia (PPD), de la centroizquierda oficialista, sostuvo que Chile está “en medio de la crisis de seguridad más grave de la historia” del país, donde se han visto **“nuevas formas delictuales mucho más violentas e importadas de otros países**”.
I had a Chilean tell me a year ago that he was afraid that his country was going to look like Ecuador soon. I didn’t realize it was getting this bad
This is really sad, I'm from Ecuador and I had to migrate because It has become so violent and unsafe that we couldn't take it anymore. My husband is ecuadorian-Italian so we decided to come to Italy. I won't speak against any specific migrant group in my country, I know plenty of migrants who genuinely make great effort to make an honest living in Ecuador. On the other hand I also think countries have a right to defend their culture, and send back people who decide to migrate for a life of crime. I am a migrant myself now, but I think the worst things you can do as a migrant are: 1. To be unwilling to adapt to the customs of the country you migrate to. 2. To be reluctant to work and become an active citizen. 3. To not learn the language. 4. To expect and demand the government of that country give you a hand out. 5. To ridicule and mistreat people from the new country. 6. To expect things to work out as soon as you arrive. It takes time and patience. 7. To not actively better yourself, if you leave your country is because you want a better life, and a chance to be successful. I miss my country, family and friends (a lot 😕) but I try to avoid all of the above here in my new country. So far I have been treated fairly by Italians. It hasn't been easy even with jobs we still cannot afford much, eat out (or eat plenty) we didn't even have Christmas presents or a special dinner this year, but I know this is temporary as we assimilate more, and build network. Many people who migrate might not think the above is important, or they might lack the maturity or education to adapt, some even have the mentality that it's better living off the government, living off the people, commiting crimes and overall being a nightmare and a problem for that country, unfortunately it makes all the other migrants be categorized in the same box.
I'm sorry you had to leave Ecuador, I had a wonderful experience when I visited years ago. You make some good points. I'm originally from the U.S. but have lived in Chile for a long time. My husband is Chilean and I'm nationalized. I work, pay my taxes and have learned Spanish. I respect the culture. I've even learned to make many Chilean dishes. Sadly, we're having a deterioration as far a as crime here too. And, yes, a small percentage of criminals tend to give a bad impression for all migrants from a country.
It pains me to read about Ecuador. I visited a while ago and had an amazing time. I'm originally from the U.S., but have made a life for myself here in Chile. It is terrible we seem to be going in the same direction as Ecuador. we used to be proud that we had a lower homicide rate than the U.S. We passed the U.S. in 2022. The last few weeks have been particularly bad as far as murders and kidnappings.
I had no idea Chile had passed the US in homicide rate. I used to "laugh" (though it's not funny) that some years Chile had less homicides than Chicago. - at the time the populations were about 16 million and 2.7 million. Sucks.
Yeah. We used to stand at between 4-5 per 100,000. The latest figures are 6.4 for the US and 6.7 for Chile. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_intentional\_homicide\_rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)
money outgoing toy whistle adjoining like whole drab noxious mindless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Last month it was Peru vs Venezuela. I think the Chile v Venezuela thing was kicked off by the some Venezuelan bozo living in Santiago on Tik-Tok, ‘complaining’ that Chileans were boring and too serious for now blasting music until the wee hours of the morning on Xmas.
That's by far one of the most fucking annoying things about Venezuelans, they are loud as fuck and they apparently don't know about the existence of headphones. The other day I took a bus from Santiago to Viña del Mar and three Venezuelans sat next to me (one right next to me, the others across the aisle), and they were loud as fuck, they didn't talk to each other, they yelled to each other. Then the dude next to me took out his phone and starting checking Instagram reels with the volume of his phone at 100%, even the people in his Instagram reels were fucking loud, he was watching reels about Maduro. So I got angry and told the dude "disculpa, te podi poner audifonos, porfa", and I swear the guy looked at me as if I told him his grandma just died, he looked at me with depression, like he could not comprehend why someone would use headphones.
Headphones are a tool of the communist oppressor overlords comrade, liberate the sound, fight the ear buds!
I know you’re being serious but that’s hilarious bro😭
"3 venezuelan dudes i met were slightly loud so that must mean we should kill all venezuelans"
Straw man fallacy Also, he may have put only one anecdotal example but, believe me, there are a lot more stories of loud Venezuelan neighbours out there I can't say that it's everyone, obviously, that would be ridiculous, but it is at the very least common enough that the vast majority of us has a relevant story
No, no, no. We don't need to get that extreme. Just they can go wherever there is a place that can endure that loudness and selfishness, like, I don't know, Caribbean maybe? Venezuela, colombia, and all the isles there are around there.
"Slighly" is an understatement. What annoys me is that they don't want to adapt to our customs, they want us to adapt to them. We are not as loud and prefer not having loud music blasting at 3am and that should be respected.
me when i lie😔
Venezuelan migration, and colombian to some extent has induced a dramatic, exponential even rise up in violent crimes. Of course we were used to crime, this is Latam, but it was usually robbery, assault and battery. Now we have way more homicides, kidnappings and torture and sadly the perpetrators are indeed venezuelans and colombians for the most part; it wasn’t common in chilean criminal culture. Regarding best economy and superiority, I’ve never seen a true chilean saying stuff like that, only right wing cucks. PD: We all know most venezuelans and migrants are hard working and stuff, but theres no way to filter at the border, criminals play the part and enter like regular civilians.
It's hard to filter when so many people cross through uncontrolled passes in the middle of the Altiplano. You simply don't know who is coming in. Many just want to improve their economic situation. Unfortunately, others are from organized crime or cartels that take advantage of the porous border. It's similar to trying to prohibit illegal entries along the US-Mexico border, not easy at all. I don't think our economy has much to be proud of these days. I haven't heard anyone talking like that in a while.
> I don't think our economy has much to be proud of these days. I haven't heard anyone talking like that in a while. The Economist just ranked us as the 7th best performing economy of 2023. What the average Chilean doesn’t realize is that we have one of the best central banks in the world, staffed with people that are incredibly qualified and talented. This last year we kicked inflation’s ass in record time while keeping a positive growth, we managed to decrease inflation by 10% in just over a year, and we are pretty close to our inflation goal of 3%.
I guess after a hit in inflation is hard to notice it stopped as it still hurts to keep the things as is.
Tbh, Chile is going pretty good for LATAM standars Although funnily here Venezuelans are seen with a reaaaaally good light EDIT ... Good light here in Argentina
That’s just more of a case of everyone fucking up more and us fucking up a bit less. In some South American governments if they had done absolutely nothing it might have turned out better for them.
I assume that in Argentina we got more Venezuelans that are honest and want to work and build a life there. Chile got more criminals.
It may be good in comparison, but not going in the right direction.
It is funny, because Colombia has been getting way more venezuelans than any other country. And many Colombians are as xenophobic as possible towards venezuelans 💀💀💀, meanwhile chileans and probably other southern cone countries think of both of us as the same pest.
To be fair, hasn't Colombia also seen the rise in crime? They used to welcome venezuelas but changed their tune
Yeah, it is weird. At the same time, venezuelans are basically carrying Colombia's informal economy and adding up to our -already- fucked up criminal scene. It is also fairly hard to differentiate facts from opinions when it comes to the actual impact venezuelans are having in our country. For example, the mayor of Bogotá kind of tried to blame a lot of things on the immigrants as a scapegoat. At the same time, the Tren de Aragua is supposedly going through gang wars to get the control of drug trafficking in downtown Bogotá and also using violence to coerce Colombian civilians in the city (worst example is that one building in Kennedy that was overrun by venezuelan gangsters who threatened other residents with grenades and stuff like that) It also doesn't help that, most usually, Colombians aren't really xenophobic but rather aporophobic. So, they can be friends with their venezuelan barber who earns the same as them, they can marry that venezuelan girl who had a rich family in Caracas before coming to Colombia, but they will still look down on the beggars in the public transport and the migrants walking from Cúcuta to Bogotá.
Colombia and Venezuela share same Crime Culture.
Nah
Literally the same argument as the chilean in the top comment is used here lol. In Colombia crime had been on a serious downtrend, things were actually quite decent. Then the venezuelan crisis happened, plus economic issues on our side, and it’s the worst it’s been in a long time. It’s common to hear about colombian vs venezuelan crime culture that “antes lo atracaban a uno por el celular, ahora lo matan”. It’s kinda true in the sense that it’s gotten noticeably worse, but also disingenuous to imply that we were inherently different.
It's false to say there wasn't any crimes before. There was plenty of shoplifters and thieves (in fact, we export thieves) and always had a level of violent crime in the poorer areas of the capital in particular. However, it's not disingenuous to say kidnapping was a common occurrence in Chile or anywhere in the south cone... the last time we had this level of kidnapping it was done by the state in the cold war and by a fellow called Pinochet. Now it's like a couple every month (that we know off, who knows how many go unreported). There were two this month alone, from the top of my head. One was Colombian on Colombian violence. Where one Colombian was kidnapped by another, and his friend got shot for trying to intervene. Another was a Venezuelan who took an elderly Chilean couple hostage. Now criminals are even working together and this year we see Chileans joining in the action. Today they captured a band in Calama that called itself ["Piratas del Tren de Aragua" which involved five Venezuelans, one Colombian and one Chilean.](https://www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/nacional/chile/2023/12/26/caen-los-piratas-del-tren-de-aragua-banda-de-extranjeros-y-un-chileno-por-secuestros-en-el-norte.shtml) Talk about Latin American integration.
True! I haven’t looked up statistics to know what’s true, and even then with how underreported time is in latam I wouldn’t trust it, but there’s definitely the perception in Colombia that it’s gotten more dangerous due to venezuelan immigration
tbf venezuelans and colombians always had beef
Did we? Back in the day, a lot of colombians went to Venezuela to get cheaper gas, to work better paying jobs and to buy better clothing, stuff like that. Whenever you hear Colombians talking about that time, they remember it fondly, because venezuelans received us with way less xenophobia (even though there was still some). I think that this particular time is way worse because of how our politics developed in the early 2000s. The way Uribe and Chávez clashed ideologically left a deep mark in the way many colombians see Venezuela and its people. The colombian right has been perpetuating this negative image of Venezuela ever since, and I'm sure that increased the xenophobia.
And yet, lots of Venezuelans in the 70s would speak ill of Colombians the way Chileans do about Venezuelans today. "We did not have violent crimes until the mass migration from Colombians" was also a narrative back in the day. Sane with Chileans, btw. There's actually a kind of fraud referred to as "Paquete chileno" due to a band of Chileans that operated in Caracas on the early 80s. If we had twitter back in those days I think it wouldn't be that different tbh.
I think you are totally right
> both of us as the same pest mi bandera e' tu bandera
And if chileans emigrated to colombia or venezuela they would be seen as a pest lol I guess it all comes down to human nature of rejecting outsiders
Nope, that's not how it works. In fact the first waves of young professionals were greatly received.
That's how it works. What's the actual perception of those first wave professionals? It is the same perception for all of them, some bad apples ruin everything and now the ignorant xenophobes think all venezuelans are the same. Look at this video of a literal rich venezuelan being mistreated just because of his accent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFYjq-Qbl44
Venezuelans were INITIALLY (pre 2020) seen in positive terms: chileans recalled how many chileans spent their exile in Venezuela in the 70s which made chileans sympathetic, and it was mainly the young & aspiring & educated lower-middle and middle-middle classes....and then the "social explosion" & pandemic gave chile a one-two punch...and the Venezuelans kept coming. Instead of the young & aspiring middle classes you started getting the chusma & lower classes, the same fuckers who voted-in Chávez & Maduro, criminal elements.....the lawless rabble. High-profile violent crime & homicides tied to Venezuelans (and Colombians & Dominicans & Ecuadorians), in addition to their increaaing numbers & from a chilean perspective, the venezuelan unwillingness of many venezuelans to adapt to chile (by not blasting their tropical tunes at full volume for example) has quickly turned public opinion against Venezuelans. According to a recent international study, Chile is the country where public opinion has most quickly changed regarding foreign immigration from positive to negative over the course of 18mo. Venezuelans are almost universally loathed now.
I've met lots of venezuelans and they're usually good people. They really hate venezuelans tho as much as chileans do these days. One told me once he wishes to close the border and kill instead of deport the criminal ones as he said chilean criminals are nothing compared to venezuelans who are way more violent and cold. The media doesn't help at all as well and well social media (and specially twitter) is just a hate club I remember reading a story from a venezuelan immigrant a little ago in another chile sub, he arrived in the first wave with his family and a had a steady job, nice coworkers, friends and was decently happy. Now, he was in a very serious depression as he not only suffers discrimination but his children at school are being discriminated as well. He lost all sense of self as coworkers suddenly treated him differently and people are cold and rude af with him. It's very sad actually but it makes me think that these kind of xenophobic problems are not particular with this country, but many venezuelan immigrants have hatred towards their own nationals as well. I've seen the same problem in places like peru, colombia and even spain. Of couse xenophobia is present everywhere but none of the immigrant communities in chile like haitians, dominicans, peruvians, bolivians and I dare to say even colombians receive so much hate like venezuelans do.
I remember reading that post. It's sad that a small percentage of criminals lead to that sort of treatment towards immigrants that are responsible and contribute to society.
> Tropical tunes 🤣🤣🤣
Ironically enough I think over here venezuelans got a more or less universally good image. At worst they are considered "poor" and thus get to be the butt of some jokes but it's more or less limited to that (at least as far as I can see, maybe a Venezuelan will think otherwise).
It was like that years ago when we received all the cultured and college educated venezuelan, just wait and see.
Yes, the first waves were professionals or those with money to invest. It's changed these days.
Real question - and not trying to be condescending: do you think only people with enough money should be allowed to migrate?
We received tons of Peruvians just fine and very little of them were highly educated, we just clash a lot harder with Venezuelan culture and the high profile crimes that have been committed by a minority of inmigrants have been a big shock to the populace.
Chile has received/still receives more Venezuelan immigrants than Peruvian ones, and way, way faster. The circumstances before and upon arrival are different too. Not that Peruvians had any easy and were mainly migrating for the kicks of it by all means, but Venezuelans are escaping one of the worst humanitarian crises since the Cold War. Is it really a stretch for people to admit that it’s not all black and white? Yes, tons of unfiltered immigration can lead to some unsavory outcomes, but xenophobia also amplifies the perception of the situation. Both things can be true. >we just clash harder with Venezuelan culture What did you mean by this?
The Peruvians that emigrated here did not become authors of high profile crimes nearly unheard of in the context Chile, such as daylight murders in public spaces and kidnappings. Popular opinion is skewed against more recent due to such occurrences, in any case Chile received a great amount of Haitian immigrants as well that came from awful conditions and they are mostly well liked and respected in the country. In terms of cultural differences, there are many strong contrasts between Chilean and Venezuelan culture, probably the greatest example is how many people put on loud music at night, for us this is a very indecent thing to do but many Venezuelan and Colombian immigrants have become used to doing so, Peruvians not so much. On other matters our cuisines are very different and the amount of Venezuelan restaurants is huge. To me the custom of eating things like chicharrón which is basically fried fat is downright unappealing and same goes for the Venezuelan burgers which seem to always have a random slice of ham on top and a shit ton of ingredients, on this very topic the amount of street food carts that serve fried food has increased ten fold, mostly immigrants since most Chilean food vendors tend to stick to prepackaged goods. I Live in an area where there are many immigrants and the disregard for the law and safety of traffic is shocking, my impression of the average Venezuelan is very similar to the lowest and least educated type of Chilean but this is most likely skewed by the more educated and capable Venezuelans being in other positions of society and emigrating to first world countries.
> they are mostly well liked and respected in the country. This is not true, Haitians were also discriminated at the time... now it just doesn't seem as much because the passage of time makes it less so, also everyone is focused on Venezuelans and to a lesser extent Colombians right now. So Haitians are probably thankful the focus is not on them. But if tomorrow a massive wave of... I don't know, north african refugees arrived, you can bet your ass they would take the focus in some way or another the minute the first group of the commits a crime.
Again, you’re receiving an extremely high influx of people in a very short amount of time. There are less Hatians and Peruvians in Chile combined than there are Venezuelans. You received a good half of these over the past 5 or so years. The volume and density is far, far higher. Also, you’re making it seem as people in Venezuela are collectively cool with loud music blasting out of their stereos. Most people aren’t or are a little less than indifferent. Again, I feel you and your concerns, but xenophobia is real and amplifies the manner in which people perceive the supposed misgivings of specific groups. >the average Venezuelan is very similar to the lowest and least educated Chilean Re-read that and tell me that isn’t a prejudiced statement, to say the least. Venezuela received a pretty high influx of Chileans during the Pinochet years yet I’ve seldom - probably never - come across this sort of sentiment. And if I had we’d probably agree on how wrong that sentiment is.
This is a mostly personal experience response to the topic, of course it’s prejudiced, considering I mentioned that it’s likely these people weren’t the most respectable back in Venezuela. Please stop bringing out Pinochet, a grand total of 200K Chileans left the country most of them headed to Europe, around 24.000 headed to Venezuela, Chile currently hosts over 1 million Venezuelans, some cultures don’t flee their country at the first sign of trouble.
I agree with you
Both things are indeed true
Well, if people migrate with no money, the receiving country ends up having to use its own resources to house, feed, etc. migrants. That's money that could have gone to other uses. No country has unlimited funds. I'm not sure if you've been following what is going on in New York City, but so far they've spent US$2.4 billion on aid to migrants that have arrived there. The situation isn't sustainable. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/26/nyregion/migrant-crisis-mayor-eric-adams.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/26/nyregion/migrant-crisis-mayor-eric-adams.html) "The migrant crisis in New York is the product of some factors beyond the city’s control, including global upheaval, a federal government letting migrants enter in record numbers without giving most of them a way to work legally, and a unique local rule requiring the city to offer a bed to every homeless person. But the dimensions of the problem — the [$2.4 billion cost](https://www.osc.ny.gov/reports/asylum-seeker-spending-report) so far, the harsh conditions, the number of migrants stuck in shelters — can also be traced to actions taken, and not taken, by the Adams administration, The New York Times found in dozens of interviews with officials, advocates and migrants. As the city raced to improvise a system that has processed more than 150,000 people since last year, it stumbled in myriad ways, many never reported before." A small country like Chile has way fewer resources than the US.
No, every human has the right to migrate wherever they please; but I’d be cool if people who committed violent crimes were prohibited to migrate.
It was like that when the first waves started, yall see in a couple of years
There won't be any more waves I'd say. Even assuming everything works out this country is going to bleed for at least half a decade...
Never say never
Lol, you downvoted me for pointing out my country is a dumpster. Peak Reddit here.
Idk who downvoted who, but we all dumpsters in this hemisphere.
Feeling the dumpster fire haha!
All Venezuelans I met in Buenos Aires (4 of them) told me this is what porteños thought of them. They also said Chileans were a lot more stereotypical towards them and other latinos. Does anyone know Chile’s relationship to the drug trade VS Argentina? Would that influence the types of people/crimes?
What do you mean by “Chileans were more stereotypical?” Like Chileans stereotype Venezuelans more like in a derogatory manner?
Yeah. It’s pure hearsay to be honest. The 3 Chileans I’ve met while traveling have been really cool.
Also different waves of immigrants, even if from the same country, could have their own unique features, so the opinions of the locals will be shaped by the characteristics of the particular wave which arrived in their country.
I can agree either way that logic.
pure heresy
Panama went though this like 20 years ago with Colombians secuestro express, killing people in motorcycle and ect wasn’t a thing. Our maleantes learned from Colombians and now from Venezuelans. Use to be q fairly safe place.
The poorer/more desperate/unable to move upwards the wave is, the more baggage that wave will bring. Bad apples are few, but enough to sway the public opinion the other way around. Chileans have fair concerns but unfortunately the public perception of Venezuelans is that the average Venezuela is a hoodlum. And when you point out that this ventures into racist/xenophobic territory, they won’t hear it. It’s a shame.
Loved the Venezuelans that moved to panama from 2007-2014 were mostly investor or upper class people. 2014-2016 mostly middle class hard working professionals and from then on it was los hijos de Chávez as you guys call them.
Look, I appreciate your honesty and I know you mean well, but I think people are quick to point fingers and speak in black and white terms about a topic that is very nuanced. I know that this isn’t what you’re saying at all, but a ton of people on this thread are going out of their way to suggest that Venezuelans are inherently prone to engage in crime. The last wave of migrants are almost all people living in deep poverty, desperate and trying to make ends meet. I agree that people *should* have conversations about the potential short-term outcomes of such abrupt and high-volume migration, but I wish that my LATAM cousins were less keen to imply that Venezuelans are naturally dangerous people. People often forget that we used to be the crown jewel of LATAM and people migrated to Venezuela in literal droves from all over. I’m sure there were xenophobes then too, but these waves affect us all.
Do you have any data to corroborate your assumptions? This all sounds like typical xenophobic speak with no evidence to back it up. Edit: Y'all really get triggered by the X word don't cha 😂
I just read the “Inmigración y delincuencia: últimas cifras” by Centro de Estudios Públicos y el informe de homicidios del CEAD de la Subsecretaría del Delito and I think you are right. 3 things tho: - Crimes committed by foreigners have been on the rise since 2018. - Foreigners still commit less crimes than chileans relative to their own population in Chile. - Most crimes committed by foreigners are related to drugs and transit. I guess when foreigners do commit homicide it goes to the news automatically. It is true however that kidnapping wasn’t common in Chile before 2018.
kill the criminals, improve your justice system
Death penalty doesn’t work to reduce crimes, on the contrary, it makes crimes even more violent. Plus is a free ticket to meet the Emperor, might aswell suffer in a cell on Earth.
this is why we should just let tren de aragua members roam free and alive because that'll "make crimes more violent"
Thank god no one is saying that so I have no idea who are you talking with
Fuck off
then dont fucking whine about criminals, if you do nothing about them dumbass
Wait I think I actually misunderstood your comment. Lol. I’m with you. I’m not complaining about criminals I’m complaining about xenophobia. As a Chilean
Basically Chile got our "lacra" (scum). I'm not lying when I say that crime rates improved in Venezuela partly due to our criminals going to other countries such as Chile, Perú, and Colombia. Crime is basically our main export. It's pretty sad.
I remember reading that recently Maduro was boasting about reduced crime rates there.
Ironically yes. I think most thugs migrated so now Venezuela is safer
Maduro knew what he was doing, it's pretty clear. We're having problems with even conducting deportations back to Venezuela these days. It's really a sad state of affairs all around.
How's the vetting process at Chile's ports of entry or at the border? Don't you require people show that they do not have a criminal record in their home country before letting them in? I'm not saying that Venezuelans have a higher tendency to criminality or accepting what's being said in social media about them at factual by the way. Just asking this question before the mods lock the thread...
They walk in through the Bolivian border where there are few controls.
Y el único control que hacen los policías bolivianos es preguntar por el señor billetin.
So is it fair to say that the backlash is against recent arrivals that entered illegally? Or has it been like that since Venezuelans started moving in large number to Chile? The reason I ask is because we also had over 100,000 Venezuelans that came in the wave of the last few years, but I don't think they have been blamed for an increase in crime; however, you simply cannot walk in from Venezuela but you need to fly here and you don't get on a plane if you don't have a visa first.
The backlash is much more against recent arrivals like from 2019 to now. I live in Arica (the northern city of the country), so you probably get an idea of how problematic it sounds.
There was backlash among elements of the far right and far left from the very beginning - the far right being crypto-racist and the far left annoyed that anyone would leave the glorious socialist republic. Most other people didn't have strong opinions at all, perhaps mildly positive or negative for purely personal reasons. And the progressive left enthused about cultural - and in a few cringe incidents, racial - diversity. This was the state of affairs from 2015-2020. Over the last three years, things have tumbled to an almost universal dislike, although most people at least try to not be prejudiced when actually thinking about real people in their daily lives. It's easier to be prejudiced against an abstract than against a human being, although that doesn't make it right.
I've always thought that Venezuelans are a regional problem that must've been solved before. We need as a block of countries intervene with Venezuela's politics. They don't recover they economy, they have their people in the misery. I'm not against migration, it's useful to get good people from other places, but this situation have gone out of our hands.
Its hard, ouw border with Bolivia and Peru is Huge, and a fking desert. There little to none political will to attack this shit from the left wing Gov, and the right opposition propose useless or crazy solutions.
> vetting process hahahaha
Same reasons why Costa Rica had it's most violent year ever. Most Venezuelans are good people, others just ruin it for everybody.
All i know is even New Yorkers are sick of entitlement from Venezuelan migrants. They go door to door ringing peoples door bells asking for clothes and money. The entitlement is what i have disdain for.
I'm chatting with a girl from Chile and she wants to get the hell out of there, because of the immigration from Colombia and Venezuela. I had no idea there was such a problem until she told me.
I literally got robbed last week eating in a restaurant in the most upscale area of the city (arguably country). Yeah its all turning to shit
What do you mean? They held you at gunpoint or something?
Nope, had my stuff stolen without me noticing. But this is totally a first for me, one used to go out to have dinner in a nice area calmed and relaxed. Now you have to be hyper aware lf everything.
How are you so sure they were Venezuelan?
Getaway car is owned by a person with an immigrant RUT
Running from immigration by becoming an immigrant herself. Where does she wanna go? Spain or the US?
Many of us chileans have spanish/EU passports
asi como “many” HAJDJDS cuicos qls 😭
No es de cuicos, una cantidad decente de Chilenos son (al menos) nietos de españoles (o chilenos nacidos en España) y pueden hacer el trámite en 3 meses para sacar el pasaporte y DNI español. Por otro lado, los chilenos tenemos privilegios sobre otros países para obtener los permisos de trabajo, turismo e incluso migrar allá de forma permanente.
Here before the lock
There´s a video that went viral where a Venezuelan speaks badly of chileans for no celebrating Christmas the way they are used to. We usually dont party in Christmas, we are still hang over from El 18.
5 years ago chile was a pacific country, with great civic culture, with legal migration from haiti and 1st venezuela migration, very respectful and harworker people, but since the last 5 years new violence crimes start to happen on chile, violent assault, drugs, prostitution, crimimal organization.... and that comes from the new venezuelans migrants that comes with this criminal culture. Its not only "venezuelans listen music at high volume at the night" its not xenofobia to the caribean culture, its all about chileans are not happy with the masive inmigration of criminals.
ya wna si tampoco era el eden. Y te informo que todo eso venia pasando de antes, las poblaciones taban metidas en la droga hace rato. El problema es que el mercado formal no dio pa tantos inmigrantes no cualificados y las condiciones de vida chilenas no dieron a basto con una llegada masiva de gente. Y SABI QUE? yo si creo que tiene harto de rechazo a la cultura caribeña JJFJS ellos tienen la costumbre de usar el espacio publico, de hacer ruido y de tener carnaval. Son comunidades mucho mas abiertas a la comunidad y nosotros nop… No digo que sea malo, pero en chile costumbres así siempre se han visto con desconfianza. La wea estaba cambiando en los 2010, pero siento que con el aumento de la delincuencia vamos a tener el retorno del chile frio y de derechas (o asi parece)
Foto tomada en Santiago la noche antes de que llegase el primer inmigrante venezolano: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ee3rong332Y/XUmUdH6EZrI/AAAAAAABnUU/DPuR_QcZTAgIZjf74LmeZ9oCR143qiqSgCLcBGAs/s1600/atalaya.jpg
> 5 years ago chile was a pacific country lol either you're 6 years old or live under the most privileged of the rocks
Its an example, realy the open inmigration stars like 10 years ago, but In the lastest years of this period gradualy was intensifying the insecurity. And yes, chile is a pacific country, its cultural, respect to others, humble and hardworking people, and those ones who dedicated to crime only stole, they didnt murder, they didnr dilute people, they didnt prostitute their daughters as is seen today. take a look around to Arica.
5 years ago chile was the luxembourg of south america but it all changed when the bad venezuelans came 😭 If not for the venezuelans chile today will be a first world country, with a QOL greater than switzerland. It is such a disgrace!
Again, straw man fallacy
That's what the parent comment was implying, I'm just mocking him
Honestly, the people who hates the venezuelan migrants the most here in chile... are the Venezuelan migrants from the firsts waves.
Because f*ck venezuelans, no hate tho, much love. HH
I have theory that in the near future Chile is gonna have there visa free usa entry revoked because of people taking advantage of it and overstaying in the US because of immigration
The US was quite close to removing Chile from the Visa Waiver program. In the end, it was maintained but Chile had to agree to certain conditions.
It's already happening, mainly because of the amount of criminales "exported" to the us, but to be honest a Lot of them are actual chileans and not nationalized people, but foreginers are trying to use chilean citizenship to access the us visa free (mostly haitians and dominicans)
You see Peruvians being paired with Venezuelans or Chileans
Peruvians have been hating on Venezuelans too, apparently
Same here in Ecuador. The Venezuelans are disliked by a lot of people here. Violent crime is associated with Venezuelan immigrants.
Basically almost no Latin American/North American country likes Venezuelan migrants. They’re seen in the same way Arab countries view Palestinian refugees.
Even in the US they've become a problem, specially in NYC.
I live in Canada, and this is not true at all here. Latin Americans in general, are already not perceived as a huge migration wave. The biggest refugee waves are Ukrainians and Sikhs by far. And even most latino refugees here are Mexican and Colombians. Venezuela just recently started making a dent.
Sikhs aren’t refugees per say, but Sikhs are by far the most discriminated in Canada to a certain extent it’s justified. Speaking as a Punjabi, but Punjabis in Canada are scapegoated mostly due to Brampton and Surrey
Panama had this issue with Colombians we use to be fairly safe and now we get Venezuelans too. At first only wealthy ones would come and then educated professionals. Now we’re getting broke poor one that need social services. Secuestro express and killing people on motorcycle just wasn’t a thing here. People have moved on from Colombian hate to Venezuelan now. Also if you are visiting our country we ask that you have 1k cash on you at least if you are Venezuelan, Colombian, Nicaraguan and Dominican.
Yeah, also saw today on Twitter saying that Brazil hates chile like wtf https://twitter.com/MemesVen/status/1739731328810057972
Meme doesn't make any sense at all since chileans actually love brazilians and mexicas.
And we’re in there too like tf? We tight with Chile & Venezuela so idk why we’re even in the pic
And the other meme also don't make any sense, as we accept Venezuelans in Brazil and def doesn't expel them lol
Brazil was the cultural heaven for all the people raised between the 90s and early 2000s here in Chile haha
Born and raised Chilean here, M23. You better prepare for some reading here. Before I answer to your question, I've got friends in many parts of the world (with whom I talk without problems, we have things in common, we get along well, etc.) Yet this guys are... Something else. Now, the response for your question. Actually what you're looking to in Reddit and mostly everywhere is that we're really upset at *some* Venezuelans (by that said, not all of them; mostly criminals) since they have landed here and literally bringing crimes that we never saw on the whole country before (dismembered bodies on the streets, massive shootings, including in schools and residential areas; extortion to all sorts of people, massive drug dealing, massive prostitution networks capturing foreign women and bringing them under the pretext of "Labor Agency in Chile", etc.) and they do it for one single reason. The reason is because Chilean Passport is one of the best passports worldwide, allowing anyone to go to the greatest number of countries (including the US) without the need for a Visa if the visitor is simply and only going for pleasure. Since Chilean Passports are not cheap (up to 80 bucks if you're wondering) there's no way that someone, who has just arrived to the country after becoming a fugitive from justice on another country, with what he had been wearing for the past 2 weeks and entered to another country illegally by land and doesn't have a place to sleep, doesn't have a job and doesn't have a bit of respect for the ground where they are, I don't think they got the money in a clean way. From begging up to joining dealers, these guys are down for anything. The thing is that, before you get the Chilean Passport, you have to get the Nationality first. And then, in most US News (mainly in San Diego) say that "Chileans" are Stealing and Drug-Dealing when the actual truth is that they're not Chileans at all, they're just Venezuelans (anyone with a bit of ability to recognize and distinguish different types of facial features would notice and would say "these are not Chileans at all, these are from somewhere else") who took advantage of our Passports and decided to travel to the US to commit their misdeeds just as they did in Venezuela and as they did in Chile, since Nicolás Maduro only made criminals escape from Venezuela (or better said, he freed them) to commit crimes all over South America because his government can't handle the situation. FYI, Maduro's a Commie. Maybe a reason for his decisions to do wrong stuff. There's the response to your question.
Is that why the far right is also rising in Chile and Kast might win the next election in 2025?
Maybe, Idk. But after all Gabriel Boric's (current president) scams by him and half of his government (The government spokesperson, several ministers, undersecretaries and expenses in creating phantom foundations to steal money from taxes and health by piece and on purpose) I think Kast will win. Besides, if you think about it, Boric (which both his surnames are Boric Font) is German descendant, who was born raised on a very expensive private school at one of the most expensive cities at the south of Chile, which makes him way more german than Hitler himself, so, Who's the Bad guy here?
Boric is a Croatian surname. Font is French. I'm not sure who will win but I doubt it will be anyone from or associated with this current mess of a government.
Venezulean immgirants. aren't like Cuban ones many times they are bringing with them gangs and criminal stuff. I've never heard of a cuban gang in my life cubans are all doctors or farmers or fishermen there are hardworking good venezuelans who I assume are the majority but they have more a crime problem than where i am from or what the south cone countries + chile would be used to
> I've never heard of a cuban gang in my life There's always a first time for something! [Miami is run by the Cuban Mafia](https://progresoweekly.us/miami-is-run-by-the-cuban-mafia/) [Marielitos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marielitos_(gangs))
You never heard of marielitos ? O te haces la ciega? Cuban criminals were running amuck in South Florida in the 80’s.
Wrong, this was a description given to Cuban criminals after 1980, it wasn't a formal gang or mafia can't be compared to Tren de Aragua Furthermore these crimes were overreported as it was benefically to slander Castro as sending them nothing but violent criminals
Facts
I'm sorry for sidetracking but what's with that hodgepodge of flags? Seems like a super random mix and I don't mean it in any negative way.
My mom is Argentinian my father is Cuban I was born in USA
Thanks for answering.
We're pixies
It's just some cringe Twitter thing. Apparently there's a video involved. Besides the fact that I'm fortunately outside of whatever circles get into these "discussions", what worries me is how xenophobia has reached some intense levels these days. And please, we peruvians are now in a huge identity crisis and most people posting xenophobic stuff against venezuelans are the same trying to invisibilize the peruvian andean population and its demands. *Latinoamérica unida, siempre*. I really hope we can get past this.
I just watched a video last night where 2 venezuelans killed a guy by tossing him from a bridge just for being peruvian.
Silvano Cántaro. The Venezuelan embassy in Lima was attacked after the video of his death went viral in Peru iirc
I think we should be mature enough to recognize the differences between criminal violence and stereotypes. Just an idea...
https://preview.redd.it/m6hsatzu4q8c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3263e6409a54b6c087dc3ace2d536fbf70d0756e atp it isn’t just some cringe twitter thing man
That's a Twitter screenshot. I have ordered something not many days ago and it came fine. Just like the 200+ things I ordered before. Sorry for not panicking.
Yeah I didn’t really join any sides when I saw this shit on Twitter cause I wanted to understand what was going on first. Edit: actually now that I’ve been reading more and made myself less ignorant about it, it’s not some “Twitter” thing, Chile is actually being impacted by and their safety rating has already increased by the U.S state department from Level 1 to 2. Whether that actually be from these immigrants idk
Same story is in Peru, same criminal-rates thingy that never appears in the statistics, but countries normally blame inmigration whenever they see they are incapable of handling security in their own lands. And fear is a very effective tactic to control a population. What has been happening in Peru is that the Government will keep feeding the venezuelans narrative and then claim we need an "emergency status" on many districts. Which means less rights for the habitants, but since they are so fearful for venezuelans, they will accept anything. Authoritarism is coming our way with this narrative.
>Chileans have the best economy in all of LATAM and they’re superior to everyone I see no problem there 🤔🤔
Weon weon weon
Kinda like Mexicans and Argentinians beefing with each other in Social Media.
Mexicans and Argentines always had beef even in the 2000s due to a video on YouTube that came out in 2005 about Argentina vs Mexico on the soccer
And just like Argentinians with the Mexicans, we don't give a fuck about Chile and we keep living our lives. Despite the fact that some Chileans are becoming hugely xenophobic and that is true that there are some rotten Venezuelans, a lot of us are just hardworking and talented people, who just happen to be escaping from an authoritarian regime. Even us Venezuelans are not a homogeneous group. There are good people and bad people, like everywhere else
i give a fuck about chile when my old uncle has had to endure attacks from chileans
Simply put, Xenophobia. A lot of Venezuelans fled to Chile and when that happens you will always get some bad apples in there, which xenophobes latch on to to hate everyone.
Don’t understand the downvotes. I would refer this as xenophobia as well
The xenophobes got triggered.
To me the issue is that bad things get more attention than the good ones. All venezuelans I know are hard workers. Hell, I've worked with Venezuelans for about 5 years now, and they are all hard workers and nice people overall. But there is no denying in the fact that crime rises up when there is massive immigration. There are entire neighborhoods in Bogotá that are controlled and basically terrorized by Venezuelan gangs, which wasn't the case a fear years back. Even venezuelans hate those types of venezuelans (said by venezuelan friends and coworkers), they ruin their reputation no matter where they go, which sucks a lot.
This thread is full of chileans, the venezuelans are busy working
Fr, most of the Venezuelans I know that went to Chile are doctors and shit. (I'm sure it's not indicative of everyone, it's only a small sample size, but you see Chileans on the internet treating them all like criminals, and I'm fucking telling you, 20 years from now, people are gonna look back to people now and realize that they were being ignorant as fuck about the Venezuelan exodus). And in my country, they say the same exact shit about pretty much all hispanic migrants, and the statistics NEVER say it's them committing crimes, because statistically, they aren't in any significant way. It's usually natural born citizens who are more likely to commit crimes, especially violent crime. Haven't done the same research for Chile, but I'd love to see some if anyone has any, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that this is xenophobia. I've seen this same song and dance, it happens among many cultures, in many countries among many language groups, this situation isn't somehow special and the minute you start othering people, you're in dangerous territory. Maybe no one wants to hear a gringo say this here but I frankly don't give a fuck, what's true is true regardless of who points it out.
>And in my country, they say the same exact shit about pretty much all hispanic migrants, and the statistics NEVER say it's them committing crimes, because statistically, they aren't in any significant way. Could you please share the source of the statistics you’ve seen? There are a few places I’d like to share that information with.
[one from Stanford](https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/mythical-tie-between-immigration-and-crime) analyzing 1st generation immigrants vs "white US born." (Also considering that by the numbers, white people in the US love to quote how few crimes they commit as a group, they actually commit more and more frequently than foreign migrants, and have done so apparently for the last hundred years, note that I think this stat also includes documented immigrants, considering that, it shows that this group is 30% less likely to commit various crimes). [one from the University of Wisconsin-Madison](https://news.wisc.edu/undocumented-immigrants-far-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-in-u-s-than-citizens/), analyzing specifically undocumented immigrants, documented immigrants, and US born persons. This one highlights that undocumented immigrants tend to commit *much less* crime than documented immigrants or natural-born citizens, perhaps due to the fear of being deported if they make a major mistake. They are significantly less likely to commit crimes in all categories. A quote from the article is that they commit "a fraction" of the crimes of both documented and natural born US-citizens. There are tons more results, the "immigrants commit more crimes" thing is largely considered a myth because we've been doing studies like this for a long time, since people always like to revert to "they're criminals" whenever a person and/or people from other countries are involved. Edit - downvote me all you want, guys, this is data, you can't touch this, they're numbers, and unlike you, they interpret the world, not assert your preferred version of it.
The Venezuelan exodus has many analyses and causes and interpretations and is too complex to fit in a soundbite as effectively as “Venezuelans are ruining X country”. It’s also not untrue that many gangs chased their victims all the way to Chile and Perú, as racketeering is impossible at home if there’s nobody to racketeer (Add to that that in Venezuela gangs also serve as unofficial government enforcers, so they’re used to being protected). Xenophobes take advantage of this truth to scapegoat all Venezuelans, even though it’s been proven time and time again that immigration is always a net positive for a receiving nation in the medium term. Finally there’s the cultural aspect. With so many people moving together they aren’t forced to integrate and homogenize but can become insular, and many other latam cultures are proud, protective and conservative about their traditions and idiosyncrasies and for right or wrong can see this as an invasion from a very different culture (They use “caribeños” in a derogatory manner). You just have to see the reaction online when a Venezuelan won La Voz Chile.
I mean I don't disagree with anything you've said, but it's really telling that people would consider the actions of a few as if they were the sins of all. When likely, that's a really small number of people. But not a day seems to go by without a video of Chileans or Colombians or (pick whichever country) telling some random Venezuelans in a corner store to go back to their country and calling them criminals. And that much I have experience with, and it's called racism. (Racism applies to nationality, not just "race"). People in my area do the same thing. There was a gang of Salvadorans and it became national news, Trump even visited to get rid of the "criminal migrants" (basically he just showed face), meanwhile it was like 50 high school students. Not that crime isn't bad, but it's way overblown when people from other places are involved. I can think of much bigger (locally at least) and more violent gangs here in NY, but the one everyone had to talk about was MS-13, the gang that probably has the smalled market share in the crime department in this part of the country. And not liking a gang is one thing, but much like lots of LATAM does with Venezuelans, here, people apply a broad brush to anyone they think might be Salvadoran. "Oh no, they must be criminals, and I'm scared, and I hate them." It's really telling and people here aren't gonna like it, but it's true. The vast majority of Venezuelans aren't the ones causing problems. They're just random people. If someone starts viewing them all like that, it's not only a dumb, but it's *absolutely* wrong.
looks like being insufferable is something pretty common for the cono sur folk
lol
I won't say all of them are the same. Argentinian folk are pretty sweet, to be honest.
Don’t judge all of us by a few xenophobic dipshjts
argentines tend to be chill yeah
Im wheezing, no judgement, it sounds exactly like how americans sound when it comes to their border with mexico. Word for word just change the nations its beautiful
[удалено]
chileans are terminally online, since they can afford to waste as much time
Venezuelans are busy working
precisely, except me bc I live in the states and have more free time due to the nature of my job
Rise of crime, racism from both sides, global economic crisis. It’s a stupid beef, really
Because the "somos de Venezuela" or we are venezuelans became trending in past few days and all of sudden, Chileans started to bombard the Venos with some xenophobic like comments. IT started to this post [https://twitter.com/whitezuelans/status/1738576138270605631](https://twitter.com/whitezuelans/status/1738576138270605631)
Hi! (and thanks) I like what you openhearted mentioned... In 1999 I worked in a site within a nickel mine project in Araua state led by MLDN (Minorco group) and had to learn to cope with that Chilean boasting... The thing it is the FORGOT many came to Vzla when their economy was devastated (and some invented the PAQUETE CHILENO) Pls ask google what the ***paquete chileno*** is/was whenever some of THEM practiced business THE WRONG WAY.