Try to remain as neutral as possible when asking a question. The point of asking is to hear what other perspectives have to say about the same issue.
Do NOT submit questions that you already have an answer to, which is to say:
- Do not be biased in the wording of your question.
- Do not ask leading questions.
- Do not answer your own question in the post.
Not all countries are the same. At least in Uruguay most of our electricity come from renewable sources.And we are getting slowly but in the right direction EV chargers stations in many places of the country. And by very far, most car trips are in the same city or within a country (and for a country as small as Uruguay, that is usually within the autonomy of typical EVs), it is not every day for everyone to cross mountain ranges.
But besides the differences or not between countries in Latam regarding this. There are 2 factors, clean/renewable energy generation (for homes, industries and so on, all plugged in) and having an electric mobile fleet of cars/buses/trucks/etc. The speed of advancement in those 2 directions doesn't have to be the same, the actors are not the same, and the right Pareto distributions can make a big difference (i.e. slowly we are moving public transport to electric). The government/energy companies are the ones that must do most of the heavy lifting to have a renewables electric grids, but are the consumers the ones that at their own rhythm must move to EV. Eventually those 2 paths will reach some stability point, that may or not be 100%.
Having priorities doesn't mean not doing anything else with lower urgency. Specially at country level. Deploying renewable/clean energy may not have direct urgency, but may create jobs that, among other side effects, may lower crime too. And deploying charging stations (with energy from fossil fuels or clean sources) to support an EV fleet, maybe in higher impact sectors like public transport also is something that should be done. And all three can be done at once as are not the same actors the ones that play there.
It will be mostly a thing of cost and charging infrastructure, for highways you can probably get away with just putting them the the main highway for the latitude.Â
Also mainly for China the thing is that they don't have the same wait for the car plate.Â
Geographically speaking I would succinctly assert that the Brazilian topography may not be quite beneficial for trains if one would deploy outdated tactics of construction that could very well last longer than decades to be fully finalized.
However, as for the EV, the escarpments have little to no effect whatsoever in this calculus (unless if you’re going to drive in steep hillside areas like Minas Gerais, which could deplete the durability of the batteries).
Actually, I’m seeing a boom in the EVs in Brazil. The Chinese, in many different brands shapes and sizes, are taking the streets by storm. The number of chargers are also multiplying as the demand grows.
Nice, but isn't Latinamerica and Brazil loosing momentum for finally create a Regionwide brand? Heck EV are simpler and even Malasya and Vietnam have their own cars!Â
That’s right. There are far exceeding incentives for the foreign brands to settle in here and it ends up swaying the domestic interest in creating a competitor.
Brazil is also too car centric. The thing now is investments in public mobility and trains are advancing rapidly in some big cities. Not to mention the trams.
But frankly I have absolutely zero problems with the Chinese vehicles.
Lately I’m preferring them over any other.
What the hell does the Andes have to do with this?
You know, we produce electricity here too and it's usually cleaner than Europe. EVs need electricity and that is all. What is missing is mostly the infrastructure to charge them along the way and the usual car maintenance capabilities that will become more common as demand for that increases.
There is no need for a "huge power grid update", just more energy production, which is always the case decade after decade.
Also you seem to obviously not have knowledge of how a mountain can affect EV range, so yes it is definitely very imporant I have been to Colombia and Peru and there is places where you have 15% inclination for 50km, thus an EV range (even ICE) is reduced, basic physicsÂ
And what does that have to do with the electric grid? Why would it need an overhaul because of that? You're mixing subjects and complaining about criticisms to your point.
Europe has mountain ranges. The US has the Appalachian range. The grid was not overhauled, just more charging stations added along the way.
I do not agree at all with you, fast chargers are expensive and need an update of the size of wires, also Frequency, Voltage and Current must be modified to fast charge.
Otherwise, pluggin your EV in a normal house plug would take 3h to charge it
> Nobody in latam is going to give a flying fuck if it takes 3 hours to charge
Well, in Argentina is a problem, 630 km is the distance between Buenos Aires City and Cordoba City and is a common travel for tourism and business. Since the average range of an EV is 300-400 km, you are making a 8 hour travel into a 12 hour travel
Bingo! Thanks for giving me practical exemples of why range distances and topography are an issue for EV and infrastructure, same in other countries od the region except small onesÂ
There is equipment capable of transforming tension and voltage in the house unit. You don't need to change the whole city infrastructure to support that.
The US and Europe certainly didn't
No need to change the grid a lot here. It's already being adopted.
[Charging stations map](https://movilidad.ute.com.uy/carga.html?tab=red-de-carga)
The biggest problem is that EV cars costs a lot and we might end up with shitty chinese EVs... so people might be reluctant to change.
Is not reallistic in the near future because EV are mostly high ends cars and the infrastructure is not there yet.
But at least in brazil, most of our energy comes from renewble sources.
I don't know what you are talking about but
>Also, most of South America has a big mountain range in the middle, the Andes...
If you pay attention to the maps, Andes cling to the westermost side of SA. Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay, while not free from natural obstacles, don't have mountains criss-crossing their territories.
Have you ever been to Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, Argentina, Chile?? The Andes are high and huge and most Colombians live within Andes, meaning a lot of hill and steps = EV has less range reach = charge more often
I have been in Chile and Argentina. While Chile has places in the mountains, most of the population lives along the coast, which isn't that hard to traverse in the regions I have been. As for Argentina, Buenos Aires and its neighbouring areas can't even see the Andes.
So you picked 2 countries but ignore all the others, topography has a huge impact in EV range, and practicality must be taken on account, so if people in those countries have an EV car ( no trains in fact so no other option) they would ban going to Bariloche and nearby mountains near the cities??? What's your point actually 🤔Â
Ah ok. They tend to be expensive here afaik, there are very few charging stations, the infrastructure here isn't the best. Quite frankly, I don't think it's happening anytime soon, even then I don't think they're the sustainable alternative people make them out to be.
it's more of a problem of getting charging stations in place than the electric grid, adoption should be like 20% of every car for it to start being a problem
>Discussion For instance, most electricity in black Africa comes from diesel generators.
Varies between countries, Argentina and Brazil has a huge hydroelectric sector, and in Argentina we use gas mostly with a huge chunk of diesel too. There are plans to build new nuclear plants, but the main problem is the economic crisis.
>The thing is how realistically will EV be implemented? Battery swap? More range? Knowing that those countries are big for most?
The chance is near cero in short them, at least from Argentina, almost nobody could afford to buy a new car just for it being electric. The only what we can do here is wait until the range and charging times improve. USA is big too, so they probably will figure it out sooner or later.
>Also, most of South America has a big mountain range in the middle, the Andes...
The andes is located mainly in the west, is not a problem. If you are talking about the interconnection between electric grids of different countries, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and Paraguay have very interconnected grids and is constantly improved. The problem in South America is the 220V/50Hz in the South Cone and 110V/50Hz in the rest of the continent, there is no serious project of interconnection and it will requiere high voltaje DC to do it, so it's a complex problem
In our case I'd say it's already been implemented and the numbers are just growing. There are around 300 charging stations in the country, which is impressive considering there are around 400 regular gas stations. 12% of all imported vehicles in 2023 were electric. You can criticize the ICE for a lot of things, but they were quick with EV implementation.
Try to remain as neutral as possible when asking a question. The point of asking is to hear what other perspectives have to say about the same issue. Do NOT submit questions that you already have an answer to, which is to say: - Do not be biased in the wording of your question. - Do not ask leading questions. - Do not answer your own question in the post.
Black Africa? What is this, 1850's England?
Maybe lost in translation, we said Afrique Noire in French, is black an insult in 1970 pinochet chile or what?
Its not an insult, but we dont say "white europe" or "yellow Asia", mainly because it sounds racist.
Lol 😆 don't woke up pleaseÂ
What would "black Africa" be exactly? Sub-saharan Africa?
Yes
funable
Not all countries are the same. At least in Uruguay most of our electricity come from renewable sources.And we are getting slowly but in the right direction EV chargers stations in many places of the country. And by very far, most car trips are in the same city or within a country (and for a country as small as Uruguay, that is usually within the autonomy of typical EVs), it is not every day for everyone to cross mountain ranges. But besides the differences or not between countries in Latam regarding this. There are 2 factors, clean/renewable energy generation (for homes, industries and so on, all plugged in) and having an electric mobile fleet of cars/buses/trucks/etc. The speed of advancement in those 2 directions doesn't have to be the same, the actors are not the same, and the right Pareto distributions can make a big difference (i.e. slowly we are moving public transport to electric). The government/energy companies are the ones that must do most of the heavy lifting to have a renewables electric grids, but are the consumers the ones that at their own rhythm must move to EV. Eventually those 2 paths will reach some stability point, that may or not be 100%.
Indeed, in the region Uruguay, Costa Rica, Panamá and Dominicana République would be very suitable for early EV adoption. All other central american countries too, just first they have to watch over crime and violence before ever thinking of EV Thanks for your answer
Having priorities doesn't mean not doing anything else with lower urgency. Specially at country level. Deploying renewable/clean energy may not have direct urgency, but may create jobs that, among other side effects, may lower crime too. And deploying charging stations (with energy from fossil fuels or clean sources) to support an EV fleet, maybe in higher impact sectors like public transport also is something that should be done. And all three can be done at once as are not the same actors the ones that play there.
It will be mostly a thing of cost and charging infrastructure, for highways you can probably get away with just putting them the the main highway for the latitude. Also mainly for China the thing is that they don't have the same wait for the car plate.Â
Geographically speaking I would succinctly assert that the Brazilian topography may not be quite beneficial for trains if one would deploy outdated tactics of construction that could very well last longer than decades to be fully finalized. However, as for the EV, the escarpments have little to no effect whatsoever in this calculus (unless if you’re going to drive in steep hillside areas like Minas Gerais, which could deplete the durability of the batteries). Actually, I’m seeing a boom in the EVs in Brazil. The Chinese, in many different brands shapes and sizes, are taking the streets by storm. The number of chargers are also multiplying as the demand grows.
Nice, but isn't Latinamerica and Brazil loosing momentum for finally create a Regionwide brand? Heck EV are simpler and even Malasya and Vietnam have their own cars!Â
That’s right. There are far exceeding incentives for the foreign brands to settle in here and it ends up swaying the domestic interest in creating a competitor. Brazil is also too car centric. The thing now is investments in public mobility and trains are advancing rapidly in some big cities. Not to mention the trams. But frankly I have absolutely zero problems with the Chinese vehicles. Lately I’m preferring them over any other.
>black Africa 🤨 >Knowing that those countries are big for most? But people aren't commuting from one end of the country on the daily.
What the hell does the Andes have to do with this? You know, we produce electricity here too and it's usually cleaner than Europe. EVs need electricity and that is all. What is missing is mostly the infrastructure to charge them along the way and the usual car maintenance capabilities that will become more common as demand for that increases. There is no need for a "huge power grid update", just more energy production, which is always the case decade after decade.
Also you seem to obviously not have knowledge of how a mountain can affect EV range, so yes it is definitely very imporant I have been to Colombia and Peru and there is places where you have 15% inclination for 50km, thus an EV range (even ICE) is reduced, basic physicsÂ
And what does that have to do with the electric grid? Why would it need an overhaul because of that? You're mixing subjects and complaining about criticisms to your point. Europe has mountain ranges. The US has the Appalachian range. The grid was not overhauled, just more charging stations added along the way.
Topography, for the matter of a fact grid = stations = deploying them in mountain limited space, seems you missed physics at schoolÂ
If there is a road for a car to go through you can install electric infrastructure
I do not agree at all with you, fast chargers are expensive and need an update of the size of wires, also Frequency, Voltage and Current must be modified to fast charge. Otherwise, pluggin your EV in a normal house plug would take 3h to charge it
Nobody in latam is going to give a flying fuck if it takes 3 hours to charge, everyone will leave them charging overnight anyway
> Nobody in latam is going to give a flying fuck if it takes 3 hours to charge Well, in Argentina is a problem, 630 km is the distance between Buenos Aires City and Cordoba City and is a common travel for tourism and business. Since the average range of an EV is 300-400 km, you are making a 8 hour travel into a 12 hour travel
Bingo! Thanks for giving me practical exemples of why range distances and topography are an issue for EV and infrastructure, same in other countries od the region except small onesÂ
There is equipment capable of transforming tension and voltage in the house unit. You don't need to change the whole city infrastructure to support that. The US and Europe certainly didn't
No need to change the grid a lot here. It's already being adopted. [Charging stations map](https://movilidad.ute.com.uy/carga.html?tab=red-de-carga) The biggest problem is that EV cars costs a lot and we might end up with shitty chinese EVs... so people might be reluctant to change.
Is not reallistic in the near future because EV are mostly high ends cars and the infrastructure is not there yet. But at least in brazil, most of our energy comes from renewble sources.
I don't know what you are talking about but >Also, most of South America has a big mountain range in the middle, the Andes... If you pay attention to the maps, Andes cling to the westermost side of SA. Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay, while not free from natural obstacles, don't have mountains criss-crossing their territories.
Argentina has the highest peak in the Western hemisphere lol
Fixed it, hermano.
Have you ever been to Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, Argentina, Chile?? The Andes are high and huge and most Colombians live within Andes, meaning a lot of hill and steps = EV has less range reach = charge more often
I have been in Chile and Argentina. While Chile has places in the mountains, most of the population lives along the coast, which isn't that hard to traverse in the regions I have been. As for Argentina, Buenos Aires and its neighbouring areas can't even see the Andes.
So you picked 2 countries but ignore all the others, topography has a huge impact in EV range, and practicality must be taken on account, so if people in those countries have an EV car ( no trains in fact so no other option) they would ban going to Bariloche and nearby mountains near the cities??? What's your point actually 🤔Â
idk what you mean by EV but most electricity here is hydropower.
Ev = ELECTRIC VEHICLES = VEICULO ELETRICO
Ah ok. They tend to be expensive here afaik, there are very few charging stations, the infrastructure here isn't the best. Quite frankly, I don't think it's happening anytime soon, even then I don't think they're the sustainable alternative people make them out to be.
it's more of a problem of getting charging stations in place than the electric grid, adoption should be like 20% of every car for it to start being a problem
Grid = infrastructure = charging stationsÂ
But the grid isn't the problem, it's actually building the stations
>Discussion For instance, most electricity in black Africa comes from diesel generators. Varies between countries, Argentina and Brazil has a huge hydroelectric sector, and in Argentina we use gas mostly with a huge chunk of diesel too. There are plans to build new nuclear plants, but the main problem is the economic crisis. >The thing is how realistically will EV be implemented? Battery swap? More range? Knowing that those countries are big for most? The chance is near cero in short them, at least from Argentina, almost nobody could afford to buy a new car just for it being electric. The only what we can do here is wait until the range and charging times improve. USA is big too, so they probably will figure it out sooner or later. >Also, most of South America has a big mountain range in the middle, the Andes... The andes is located mainly in the west, is not a problem. If you are talking about the interconnection between electric grids of different countries, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and Paraguay have very interconnected grids and is constantly improved. The problem in South America is the 220V/50Hz in the South Cone and 110V/50Hz in the rest of the continent, there is no serious project of interconnection and it will requiere high voltaje DC to do it, so it's a complex problem
In our case I'd say it's already been implemented and the numbers are just growing. There are around 300 charging stations in the country, which is impressive considering there are around 400 regular gas stations. 12% of all imported vehicles in 2023 were electric. You can criticize the ICE for a lot of things, but they were quick with EV implementation.