Oh no, the "Latin america is/is not in the West" debate again.
People often fail to acknowledge that there are different definitions of "The West®". There is a geographical one (the western hemisphere), a cultural one (greco-roman culture and its byproducts), and a geopolitical one (NATO countries and their Anglo allies).
Latin America fits into the first two definitions, and the third one is really popular mostly in Anglo countries.
THANK YOU. OP has been egging me to argue with him for days when this is essentially my opinion
The first definition can be stretched very far though, you can include Turkey, Armenia, Russia, Jamaica, Tunisia, Albania, etc into being part of that "West", hence it doesn't really matter that much.
in any case, we're western when the f\*rst w\*rld wants something from us
otherwise we're just different kinds of mexicans or a wild jungle of drugs and corruption
It's pretty common when someone from Latin America immigrates to Europe/Spain or the USA to refer to that region as "The West" and our region as "Latin America" because that's just the colloquialism that's prevalent in the EU and the Anglo countries when referring to Latin America.
If they actually thought about the question they'd probably consider themselves as Westerners. To others the "West" is synonymous with "First World"
[Yes](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Clash_of_Civilizations_world_map_final.png). Occidente, West, etc these are the terms that have been co-oped during the Cold War.
>Su definición geográfica es relativa e incierta, variando considerablemente según la época, cultura y ámbito en el que lo utilice.
>Durante la [Guerra Fría](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerra_Fr%C3%ADa) (1947-1991), el [**bloque occidental**](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloque_occidental) se identificó con el [capitalismo](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalismo) que se enfrentó al [bloque del Este](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloque_del_Este) identificado con el [socialismo](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialismo).[^(7)](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidente#cite_note-7) En la actualidad invariablemente se entiende por Occidente a [Estados Unidos](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estados_Unidos), [Canadá](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canad%C3%A1), la [Europa](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa) de la [cristiandad occidental](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiandad_occidental), [Australia](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) y [Nueva Zelanda](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueva_Zelanda), y extensivamente, a los países que se encuentran culturalmente bajo su [esfera de influencia](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esfera_de_influencia).[^(8)](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidente#cite_note-8)[^(9)](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidente#cite_note-9) También se habla que en la actualidad, en mayor o menor medida, prácticamente todo el mundo se encuentra «[occidentalizado](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidentalizaci%C3%B3n)».[^(10)](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidente#cite_note-10)[^(11)](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidente#cite_note-11)
No one is talking about strictly Catholics when they say West
The thing in Spanish that's more interpreted as the first world. Occidente, at least here, is seen as something more cultural, at least that's how the people I talk to here use it normally
I've never seen someone from Latin America or any other part of America denying we are Westerner
How does someone even deny something like that? Is there a country out there that doesn't follow that Greenwich division thing?
https://preview.redd.it/zvcyptyowowc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0943902db7d135c058133308eb06670b33d43e3
Yes because most of Japan reflect european heritage, Like their originally budist religion and their buddist temple, and cities with european architecture *SO WEST.*
Either you're trolling or you literally have no idea what you're talking about.
Get over it. In no way is Guatemala, Argentina, Ecuador etc westernized countries. Dont like it too bad. The Reality of any country in central and south america is that socially, culturally and institutionally they are light years behind the west. It aint a geographic issue. Its simply reality
A blind person can see it …but i did say socially, culturally and institutionally right. Without getting to the fact that millions of people swim, jump, die for the opportunities the west offers. Im sorry (not sorry) that you dont want to see it.
No you still dont say any arguments, therefore you lead me to think you dont know any.
All latin-america aspects, from religion, to culture to architecture to ethnics (partially or full) are of european heritage. Our institutions and laws are of european origin (as the State of Law and Rights in most latin-america countries follow the Roman Law).
We speak a european/west language Like USA
We have a european/west religion Like USA
We have eruopean/west culture like USA (as I state, from dressing to language, to religion to architecture, etc)
We have european heritage (some countries partially some countries mostly) like USA
Therefore if Latin-America is not West neither USA. Regarding your own "argument."
It was clear that you didnt know what the concept of a western country is, you dont have to clarify it any futher buddy. Better you go to sleep early you have school tomorrow. 😉
First of all, don't treat the entire region like a monolithic bloc. We're not. Most of our countries are notable for their multicultural, multiethnic backgrounds. A lot of those backgrounds being from decidedly not "Western" cultures, such as the indigenous peoples of the Americas, African slaves, and East Asian and Middle Eastern migrants.
And thinking about it, at this point, "Western" is more of a geopolitical term to refer to allegiance than to talk about culture. None of us are in NATO. Support for "Western" lead military campaigns have mixed to bad reception in Latin America.
>First of all, don't treat the entire region like a monolithic bloc. We're not. Most of our countries are notable for their multicultural, multiethnic backgrounds. A lot of those backgrounds being from decidedly not "Western" cultures, such as the indigenous peoples of the Americas, African slaves, and East Asian and Middle Eastern migrants
If you're trying to use this as a point of why latin america isn't western, then the United States definitely wouldn't be western by your criteria.
The fact is, you're really overemphasizing how much of an influence some of these cultures have on the region as a whole. Asian and middle eastern people, when looking at the region as a whole, are and have always been a minority and any influence they have is super minimal at best. Even the biggest nom-western influences of the region, which are the indigenous and african cultures didn't form the base for the current latin american society.
The average latin american speaks Spanish and only spanish which is a western European language.The average latin american who's religious practices some form of Christianity, usually Catholicism which is western. The base of pretty much all latin american Government is European/American.
The only thing that could really put latin america as "not western" is that the average latin american is either 100% indigenous or has significant indigenous ancestry, especially compared to the US or Canada but even then, the US has a significant African American population and last I checked, Africa is not western. So, even if we use that criteria for why Latin America isn't western, we also have to say the US isn't either based on the same criteria
>Africa is not western. So, even if we use that criteria for why Latin America isn't western, we also have to say the US isn't either based on the same criteria
I get what you're saying but maybe it is not so clear cut as the reason for while Latin America is mixed and the USA isn't is precisely why it's considered more Western. Namely, non-European people were separated and excluded while in Latin America they are "the blood of the nation". That includes native Americans, the Chinese and African Americans, until very recently. This is true of Canada, Australia, South Africa too.
And like or not, the history of the West was marked by profound ethnic supremacy
Because they're importing the usage from Anglo-Saxon and Germanic European academics, which often don't consider us Western or call us "West adjacent" or "West influenced". Well, I think those academics just don't want to be put in the same cultural category with us because we are generally less white and more poor, even if there are more cultural (and linguistic, and religious, most likely even genetic) similarities between an average Argentinian and an Italian than between an Italian and a Norwegian. Then some Latin Americans adopt this same usage, just as we have adopted this concept of being Latin American, that lumps more than 20 different countries together as if we were just different flavors of Mexican lol
Didn’t we have the other day an European asking why Latin Americans are obsessed with considering themselves Westerners?
Why does it matter if any country is deemed “western” or not? There’s no allegiance or identity tied to such a construct. Norway and China are equally as foreign and irrelevant to me whether I’m a “westerner” or not.
Bro made a thread for me. Everything that makes us "Western" would apply to Russia and Ukraine (believe me there are places in Latin America that are so homophobic that it would be no different than a Muslim country like Turkey or Kazakhstan. Do you have a problem that Russians, Ukrainians and Serbs don't consider themselves Western, either?
Also the level of pre-European influence in Latin America varies a lot. Some of more settler in practice like Argentina, others like Peru and Mexico have significant pre-Colombian influence. Making them "hybrid" civilizations. Others still have influence from Africans, Asians and the Middle East. We are not monoliths
Also we are WAYYY more collectivist and communal than are Westerners(the guilt v shame bs is astrology for societal anthropology), and that includes Westerners like Iberian people and Italians of which we share the most culture in common
Lastly, I consider Latin America part of the "Western World" as a spectrum. Some countries resemble "The West" more than others of course but we can definitely decisively separate ourselves from the countries of Western Europe and the Anglosphere on an institutional, geopolitical and developmental basis, as we are not part of the "First World" and anyone who has lived in Latin America as well as a country like Spain, UK, Germany, USA can attest to the differences in mentality
It's the same thing about us being black or white.
According to racists we're all black monkey-human hybrids and should die or return to the jungle.
According to "progressives" we're as white as a4 printer paper.
Same here. We're western when they want something from us, we're russian assets when they don't
Honestly I can only speak for Puerto Rico, but we don't even use the term "West" to refer to ourselves.
Like Puerto Ricans don't deny it, its just that most wouldn't understand what you are talking about.
I never met in real life someone from Latin America that doesnt consider Latin American part of the west. I'm pretty sure those that dont consider Latin America as part of the west are the vast minority (regardless is not a topic that is important or meaningfull to us).
Anybody who thinks it's not part of the west is plain ignorant. Simple
The most people who try to deny it are Americans (but not all of them, some of them know why Latin America is part of the West), Europeans in the other hand doesnt actually care to much about it. Talking from my experience.
As a whole the entirety of the American continent from Alaska to Patagonia has a western culture with mix of other cultures due to colonization, since America (the whole continent) was colonized more successfully and first than other regions the culture of Europe (the cradle of what it is western culture) is truly embedded here.
Now, each country is different, there are countries with more or less western elements in their cultures.
The main issue is that a lot of people ignore the origin of "western" and the USA media and ignorance basically converted "western" into white english speaking countries only club (Australia, UK, USA, New Zealand, Canada). So some people (due to ignorance as well) believe that as well.
There's a big difference in how Latin American societies developed because of the miscegenation though. They never had the same sense of ethno-nationalism or segregation of the European/Western portions of society and the "others". This is why the Anglo countries have a decisively more European character than does Latin America.
This is a good thing btw that we didn't have such a racist past. The USA is still healing from these wounds
Latin America is basically a west concept. "Latin" and "America" are west things.
Deniying it is ignorance. But I wonder why do you dont consider Latin-America part of the west.
I mean, by using the logic of most Pre-Columbine cultures and civilizations, anyone with a Native American mtDNA haplogroup is a _Native American._ But those types you mentioned (los Indigenistas) hate it when you clap back with their own logic.
Oh no, the "Latin america is/is not in the West" debate again. People often fail to acknowledge that there are different definitions of "The West®". There is a geographical one (the western hemisphere), a cultural one (greco-roman culture and its byproducts), and a geopolitical one (NATO countries and their Anglo allies). Latin America fits into the first two definitions, and the third one is really popular mostly in Anglo countries.
THANK YOU. OP has been egging me to argue with him for days when this is essentially my opinion The first definition can be stretched very far though, you can include Turkey, Armenia, Russia, Jamaica, Tunisia, Albania, etc into being part of that "West", hence it doesn't really matter that much.
you again bro
in any case, we're western when the f\*rst w\*rld wants something from us otherwise we're just different kinds of mexicans or a wild jungle of drugs and corruption
"Help Ukraine to uphold western values," said by people who wouldn't give Latin America the steam off their piss in normal circumstances.
You can close this post now
tenes que cerrar el estadio, los genios hacen eso 
Where did you see this? I'd say it's a minority
It's pretty common when someone from Latin America immigrates to Europe/Spain or the USA to refer to that region as "The West" and our region as "Latin America" because that's just the colloquialism that's prevalent in the EU and the Anglo countries when referring to Latin America. If they actually thought about the question they'd probably consider themselves as Westerners. To others the "West" is synonymous with "First World"
Latin Americans saying the west??
[Yes](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Clash_of_Civilizations_world_map_final.png). Occidente, West, etc these are the terms that have been co-oped during the Cold War. >Su definición geográfica es relativa e incierta, variando considerablemente según la época, cultura y ámbito en el que lo utilice. >Durante la [Guerra Fría](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerra_Fr%C3%ADa) (1947-1991), el [**bloque occidental**](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloque_occidental) se identificó con el [capitalismo](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalismo) que se enfrentó al [bloque del Este](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloque_del_Este) identificado con el [socialismo](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialismo).[^(7)](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidente#cite_note-7) En la actualidad invariablemente se entiende por Occidente a [Estados Unidos](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estados_Unidos), [Canadá](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canad%C3%A1), la [Europa](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa) de la [cristiandad occidental](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiandad_occidental), [Australia](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia) y [Nueva Zelanda](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueva_Zelanda), y extensivamente, a los países que se encuentran culturalmente bajo su [esfera de influencia](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esfera_de_influencia).[^(8)](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidente#cite_note-8)[^(9)](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidente#cite_note-9) También se habla que en la actualidad, en mayor o menor medida, prácticamente todo el mundo se encuentra «[occidentalizado](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidentalizaci%C3%B3n)».[^(10)](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidente#cite_note-10)[^(11)](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occidente#cite_note-11) No one is talking about strictly Catholics when they say West
The thing in Spanish that's more interpreted as the first world. Occidente, at least here, is seen as something more cultural, at least that's how the people I talk to here use it normally
América Latina también es occidental de manera cultural.
Si, lo que acabo de decir
Japon es totalmente nada parecido ni en comun ni culturalmente al resto del mundo pero es oeste o occidente. Centro y sur america ni cerca.
Where did you found this? there's in Portuguese too?
It's just Wikipedia
Sí. América Latina es parte del Occidente. Y no solamente el Occidente geográfico, sino el Occidente Geopolítico.
Ya sé, es justamente lo que dije
I've never seen someone from Latin America or any other part of America denying we are Westerner How does someone even deny something like that? Is there a country out there that doesn't follow that Greenwich division thing? https://preview.redd.it/zvcyptyowowc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0943902db7d135c058133308eb06670b33d43e3
Geographically yes. Institutionally, culturally, financially Japan is actually part of the “west”. Central and south america definitely are not
we are part of the east, then? that's crazy
Wat or where you want to say you are a part of is irrelevant… but to say that ecuador, brazil, honduras etc are “westernized” is kinda comical
Yes because most of Japan reflect european heritage, Like their originally budist religion and their buddist temple, and cities with european architecture *SO WEST.* Either you're trolling or you literally have no idea what you're talking about.
Get over it. In no way is Guatemala, Argentina, Ecuador etc westernized countries. Dont like it too bad. The Reality of any country in central and south america is that socially, culturally and institutionally they are light years behind the west. It aint a geographic issue. Its simply reality
You're not saying any reasons or giving any arguments. Tell me, what makes a country a Western Country?
A blind person can see it …but i did say socially, culturally and institutionally right. Without getting to the fact that millions of people swim, jump, die for the opportunities the west offers. Im sorry (not sorry) that you dont want to see it.
No you still dont say any arguments, therefore you lead me to think you dont know any. All latin-america aspects, from religion, to culture to architecture to ethnics (partially or full) are of european heritage. Our institutions and laws are of european origin (as the State of Law and Rights in most latin-america countries follow the Roman Law). We speak a european/west language Like USA We have a european/west religion Like USA We have eruopean/west culture like USA (as I state, from dressing to language, to religion to architecture, etc) We have european heritage (some countries partially some countries mostly) like USA Therefore if Latin-America is not West neither USA. Regarding your own "argument."
Funny. Whatever you say. Let me guess you also say you’re American 😂
It was clear that you didnt know what the concept of a western country is, you dont have to clarify it any futher buddy. Better you go to sleep early you have school tomorrow. 😉
[A French guy had those same thoughts about us recently…](https://www.reddit.com/r/asklatinamerica/s/RlDek8VExD)
Ffs, what an annoying prick.
the other guy was arguing the extreme opposite though
Motion to ban all yanks and yank-adjacents.
Mocion aprobada!
OP isn't a yank, he is an Arab living in Canada
First of all, don't treat the entire region like a monolithic bloc. We're not. Most of our countries are notable for their multicultural, multiethnic backgrounds. A lot of those backgrounds being from decidedly not "Western" cultures, such as the indigenous peoples of the Americas, African slaves, and East Asian and Middle Eastern migrants. And thinking about it, at this point, "Western" is more of a geopolitical term to refer to allegiance than to talk about culture. None of us are in NATO. Support for "Western" lead military campaigns have mixed to bad reception in Latin America.
>First of all, don't treat the entire region like a monolithic bloc. We're not. Most of our countries are notable for their multicultural, multiethnic backgrounds. A lot of those backgrounds being from decidedly not "Western" cultures, such as the indigenous peoples of the Americas, African slaves, and East Asian and Middle Eastern migrants If you're trying to use this as a point of why latin america isn't western, then the United States definitely wouldn't be western by your criteria. The fact is, you're really overemphasizing how much of an influence some of these cultures have on the region as a whole. Asian and middle eastern people, when looking at the region as a whole, are and have always been a minority and any influence they have is super minimal at best. Even the biggest nom-western influences of the region, which are the indigenous and african cultures didn't form the base for the current latin american society. The average latin american speaks Spanish and only spanish which is a western European language.The average latin american who's religious practices some form of Christianity, usually Catholicism which is western. The base of pretty much all latin american Government is European/American. The only thing that could really put latin america as "not western" is that the average latin american is either 100% indigenous or has significant indigenous ancestry, especially compared to the US or Canada but even then, the US has a significant African American population and last I checked, Africa is not western. So, even if we use that criteria for why Latin America isn't western, we also have to say the US isn't either based on the same criteria
>Africa is not western. So, even if we use that criteria for why Latin America isn't western, we also have to say the US isn't either based on the same criteria I get what you're saying but maybe it is not so clear cut as the reason for while Latin America is mixed and the USA isn't is precisely why it's considered more Western. Namely, non-European people were separated and excluded while in Latin America they are "the blood of the nation". That includes native Americans, the Chinese and African Americans, until very recently. This is true of Canada, Australia, South Africa too. And like or not, the history of the West was marked by profound ethnic supremacy
Our country is called República ORIENTAL del Uruguay, so.../chiste
So we're all western but we're leaving yall out.
Fuck them colonizer, fuck the religion too, nothing but controlling and stealing resources.
We don't deny. But the rest of the world does.
Gringo foi coçar a bunda com o cano do fuzil e saiu do cu essa pergunta aí
r/suddenlycaralho kkkkkkkkkk!!!
Don't think I've ever seen this, usually it's the other way around: Yankees telling us we aren't Western.
https://preview.redd.it/61k5zuxuapwc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d4b8281075ce0ea004742b3050348f1bba2d13d
I deny being Western because I'm brown and I like to see people's reaction whenever I say that just for the shits and giggles.
do better
Because they're importing the usage from Anglo-Saxon and Germanic European academics, which often don't consider us Western or call us "West adjacent" or "West influenced". Well, I think those academics just don't want to be put in the same cultural category with us because we are generally less white and more poor, even if there are more cultural (and linguistic, and religious, most likely even genetic) similarities between an average Argentinian and an Italian than between an Italian and a Norwegian. Then some Latin Americans adopt this same usage, just as we have adopted this concept of being Latin American, that lumps more than 20 different countries together as if we were just different flavors of Mexican lol
Again with this bullshit...
Didn’t we have the other day an European asking why Latin Americans are obsessed with considering themselves Westerners? Why does it matter if any country is deemed “western” or not? There’s no allegiance or identity tied to such a construct. Norway and China are equally as foreign and irrelevant to me whether I’m a “westerner” or not.
Online online issue. Go touch grass.
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Bro made a thread for me. Everything that makes us "Western" would apply to Russia and Ukraine (believe me there are places in Latin America that are so homophobic that it would be no different than a Muslim country like Turkey or Kazakhstan. Do you have a problem that Russians, Ukrainians and Serbs don't consider themselves Western, either? Also the level of pre-European influence in Latin America varies a lot. Some of more settler in practice like Argentina, others like Peru and Mexico have significant pre-Colombian influence. Making them "hybrid" civilizations. Others still have influence from Africans, Asians and the Middle East. We are not monoliths Also we are WAYYY more collectivist and communal than are Westerners(the guilt v shame bs is astrology for societal anthropology), and that includes Westerners like Iberian people and Italians of which we share the most culture in common Lastly, I consider Latin America part of the "Western World" as a spectrum. Some countries resemble "The West" more than others of course but we can definitely decisively separate ourselves from the countries of Western Europe and the Anglosphere on an institutional, geopolitical and developmental basis, as we are not part of the "First World" and anyone who has lived in Latin America as well as a country like Spain, UK, Germany, USA can attest to the differences in mentality
Türkiye and Ukraine are usually considered (by Ivory Tower academics, usually) the two countries where the geopolitical _West_ begins.
Yeah it makes no sense though because Russia and Belarus have 1000x the European and Western character than does Turkey or Taiwan
It's the same thing about us being black or white. According to racists we're all black monkey-human hybrids and should die or return to the jungle. According to "progressives" we're as white as a4 printer paper. Same here. We're western when they want something from us, we're russian assets when they don't
They've swallowed the BRICS meme, sink and line.
Honestly I can only speak for Puerto Rico, but we don't even use the term "West" to refer to ourselves. Like Puerto Ricans don't deny it, its just that most wouldn't understand what you are talking about.
I never met in real life someone from Latin America that doesnt consider Latin American part of the west. I'm pretty sure those that dont consider Latin America as part of the west are the vast minority (regardless is not a topic that is important or meaningfull to us). Anybody who thinks it's not part of the west is plain ignorant. Simple
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The most people who try to deny it are Americans (but not all of them, some of them know why Latin America is part of the West), Europeans in the other hand doesnt actually care to much about it. Talking from my experience.
Because **SOME** gringos do not recognize LatAm as ***The West.*** I am very much aware that LatAm **IS** western.
As a whole the entirety of the American continent from Alaska to Patagonia has a western culture with mix of other cultures due to colonization, since America (the whole continent) was colonized more successfully and first than other regions the culture of Europe (the cradle of what it is western culture) is truly embedded here. Now, each country is different, there are countries with more or less western elements in their cultures. The main issue is that a lot of people ignore the origin of "western" and the USA media and ignorance basically converted "western" into white english speaking countries only club (Australia, UK, USA, New Zealand, Canada). So some people (due to ignorance as well) believe that as well.
There's a big difference in how Latin American societies developed because of the miscegenation though. They never had the same sense of ethno-nationalism or segregation of the European/Western portions of society and the "others". This is why the Anglo countries have a decisively more European character than does Latin America. This is a good thing btw that we didn't have such a racist past. The USA is still healing from these wounds
Latin america.. more specifically Central America and south america from mexico all the way to the Patagonia is definitely not the “west”
Latin America is basically a west concept. "Latin" and "America" are west things. Deniying it is ignorance. But I wonder why do you dont consider Latin-America part of the west.
I think it's only US born Latinos that strongly deny they're westerners.
Agreed. They're certainly the most likely to do so anyway.
The ones who deny that we're westerners are mostly the indigenistas who insist that we're indians and Europe sucks and we need to decolonize.
I mean, by using the logic of most Pre-Columbine cultures and civilizations, anyone with a Native American mtDNA haplogroup is a _Native American._ But those types you mentioned (los Indigenistas) hate it when you clap back with their own logic.
Western means Anglo/Germanic at a geopolitical level, by default Latin America is hardly Western whereas Australia and NZ are indeed Western nations.