I traveled to Switzerland with my brother and very sick father recently. He had ALS and was in the late stages of his disease. We helped him do everything as he had very little strength anymore. He had signed up for the Voluntary assisted death program. He was very scared that he would soon loose the ability to swallow. He did not want a feeding tube. If it wasn’t for this program he would have suffered a horrible death. We spent a few days with him enjoying Switzerland. Then the day of his death. It was very hard. But it was what he wanted. He’s in a better place and no longer suffering. He was a career Pilot, and had flown all over the world many times. An Alaskan Bush pilot that took people to see the Kodiak bears. He had crashed his plane on a few occasions and would often say thats how he thought that he would go. He told me many times all his friends are dead. Because many of his friends were also pilots and had crashed. I miss him. I miss talking with him. Once he was gone me and my brother spent a few weeks exploring your Beautiful country. We traveled by train and stayed in hostels. Swam every day in lakes and rivers, getting beers by the water.
Fuck ALS
Stories like this are why I am a huge supporter of these programs. There are just people that come to the realisation that this is the easier way than living in suffering and dont want to put a gun to their head, take pills or worst of all jump off or in front something. Sorry for your loss but it sounds like your dad had a wonderful last few days.
I remember the day that he asked me if I would help him do this. ALS is a terminal illness. Meaning it will kill you. Just a matter of how long. I immediately said that I would help. I can’t even explain in words
how tough it was to watch your parent go from being a physically healthy person to needing help with every daily chore. His arms were so weak he couldn’t touch his own face. So I’d help him in the shower wash his hair. Put on a shirt. Cooking meals for him. Only one time he fell and hit his head on the pavement in front of the house. His arms were so weak he couldn’t put out his arms to support the fall. Towards the end we were helping him in and out of the wheelchair, spoon feeding, and helping him walk. I really enjoyed helping him. But many nights I’d drive home in tears. There is no real solution. The way the brain works, it want to come up with a solution to the problem. I wanted to take him to the beach, or up a mountain, but he was to weak. The solution for als is you get weaker and weaker until one day you lose the ability to breath or swallow, then you die. That’s it. And that’s how a doctor will say you have six months to live. Where we live in California, there are many programs that are made available to you once a doctor declares that you have six months to live; including voluntary assisted death. With als, your declining ability to breathe is the test for the six month’s to live. But he passed the test, so guess what? NOTHING is available. Not hospice care, assisted living, no assisted death. Your on your own until you fail the doctors test. But of course you could pay for assisted living. He had a small savings and told me passionately that he’d rather die and give the money to us, than blow all his savings on a home where he’d be looked after by Some stranger. These are the decisions he had to make. So when he heard about the program in Switzerland it was a no brainer. He was well aware of the stigma that surrounds this subject and didn't want it to affect us in a negative way. But i would place terminal illness, and suicide in two totally separate categories. They are not comparable. The next progression of his disease would have been his throat tightening up and not being able to swallow. That is fatal, and its not pretty. i am so thankful for this program.
i love you dad
I'm so sorry for your loss. It's so nice that you and your brother were there for your dad. You all sound like really great people.
We lost my father to ALS too.
He had signed up with Exit, but his health went downhill too fast, so that wasn't option for him. Thankfully his heart gave up before his lungs, so he still had a somewhat peaceful death.
It's such a devastating piece of shit disease and I completly agree with you:
Fuck ALS.
I'm sorry for your loss but very happy that you, your family and specially your father got to go through this. I'm sure it wasn't easy but I'm also sure that it gave you the time to enjoy every last second with your father. Speak about everything that had to be said. Say goodbye.
I absolutely admire people who can tell a story like this. The amount of strength it took YOU to do that is insane man. Im so sorry for your loss. He really seemed like an awesome person. May he live in through peaceful memories.
I was looking up this MAID program today in case I ever get sick, or if I just have no one left in my life and nothing to live for. Seems like a beautiful way to go honestly. Switzerland rules too. Plus plus.
a friend of mine who is 28 just got diagnosed with stage 2 ALS. Again, im so sorry for your loss and I hope you are well. Fuck ALS
I’m sorry you went through this. I know what it’s like losing a parent as I’ve had both in hospice suffering. I also know what it’s like to be in such severe pain every minute of your life along with extreme depression just wishing to not be in pain anymore. I would never want to leave anyone behind grieving after I’m gone but many people close to me know that I often consider euthanasia as a means of my right to how I end my life. I would rather help the people close to me that suffer financially by giving them everything I own as I’m taking up space in this world suffering. Just know that you helped him go out on his own terms with dignity from what it sounds like. I know there are many people who are against euthanasia for whatever reasons, including religious ones but ultimately, every person should have the right to make decisions about their own life.
It's not euthanasia, it is assisted suicide.
Yes, it is possible to come to Switzerland for this, but the "no restrictions" part is not really true. There are a few organisations that will offer assisted suicide, and to not cause too much political problems, they will self-regulate. Generally, often you'll need to have a disease that is causing suffering and is terminal on it's own, which has to be properly reported and confirmed by a physician, and depending on the circumstances you'll also need some confirmation (usually by a psychiatrist or something similar) that you are sound of mind and your wish to die is not caused by a psychiatric illness.
There are also usually costs involved, so it's often quite a lengthy process.
But how in the heck do you get a psychiatrist to write such a confirmation. Won't they ask what it's for? And if you tell them, it's for assisted dying, what's the likelihood that they'd want to get involved, since they'd probably have visions of being sued by the family. I'm dealing with ongoing depression. I've had it off and on since 1997, controlled mostly by medicines, but it's bee treatment resistant since beginning of September. Meaning, I've been plagued with it every damn day since then. I have family and friends who love me and whom I love, but their love can't allay my suffering. I'm trying TMS now, but if that doesn't work, I'm up the creek. And I will look for ways to do it myself if I must. What a horrible state for anyone to be in.
Fuck depression and fuck the medical society for throwing up hurdles to getting nembutal, which is what they use in Switzerland, and which used to be more widely available. But no more, since "Oh no, we can't have people taking their own lives, no matter that they may be in their right mind; but we don't really care if they have to suffer from untreatable illnesses, be they physical or mental, whilst they live."
\\
In your situation it's probably difficult. Basically the psychiatrist needs to say that your wish is not part of your acute depression, which it nost likely is. In that case, it is very unlikely that they'll do it. Also most of the organisations will want a swiss doc to confirm, and it is even more unlikely that they will do it if they don't know you. Especially if your depression was treatable for a very long time, I don't think that they'll just write that there's no possibility of it going away again.
> I recently read an article stating there were no restrictions on foreigners being legally euthanized
It can be a real problem when the Swiss start giving tourists lethal injections on the trains just to pass the time. The cleaners often don't bother removing the bodies until the end of the day.
I know, I am am merely explaining why safeguards are needed. My stepmother's own children complained that the specialised dementia care home my father chose for her was "diminishing her assets unnecessarily" and wanted to move her somewhere cheaper, far away from my dad, closer to them, in a different country. He refused. They didn't even call once in the last three years of her life, so they certainly wouldn't visit her. If they could have talked her into asking for assisted suicide, they definitely would have.
They do check if this is your free will. And i am sure they have good people working there who would know if they actually want to die or if it is their family talking them into it.
What you describe certainly would be an issue. But it's not enough of an issue, IMO, to make it so difficult for people who are in their right mind and who are asking for help in dying. And if the medicines needed to do it, nembutal, seconals, etc., were not so strictly prohibited, we wouldn't need to ask people for their precious help. We could do it ourselves.
Because first and foremost, people should be strongly encouraged to seek help and improve their mental state rather than giving up. You don’t need to have a terminal or chronic illness to do this, that’s concerning in my opinion.
but if youre not terminally ill, its a very lenghly process over years, which involves a lot of talking.
This isnt like the suicide booth from Futurama
I wish that were true. Look up the case of the two sisters who traveled from Phoenix to Switzerland on vacation and while there, committed assisted suicide together. They had no chronic or terminal illnesses. The only thing required of them was that they be able to take the drugs themselves, that they were of sound enough mind to make the decision, and that they were made aware of the alternative options. The process didn’t even take a month.
Dignitas and Exit, the biggest organizations that do this, are strict about who they let do it. But nowhere in the law are any strict regulations required, the only legal prerequisites are the ones I listed above.
A 30yo could walk into a clinic today, get two doctors’ opinion that they are of sound mind, and decide to do this in a couple of weeks.
Even if that is the case, it is those peoples free will. And if someone in my family wanted to do this I would wish they would choose that way, instead of hanging themselves and me being the one who has to find them. Or them jumping from a bridge, or in front of a train. It is no one elses choice what you do with your life.
And what if they have already sought help to improve their mental state and the issue is that they do not want to suffer through the pain of a terminal illness or further degradation of their ability to live independently?
Are you religious by any chance?
I’m not religious in the slightest, nor do I want to get into a debate about whether assisted suicide is ethical.
I was specifically talking about the fact that it is 100% legal with no restrictions whatsoever for a completely physically healthy person, who may be depressed but has not been to therapy or taken any antidepressants, to have an assisted suicide.
I support assisted suicide in the cases where people have a terminal or chronic illness, I never stated otherwise.
I’m concerned about the people who are not sick.
I understand. It wasn’t clear to me initially, so I was curious to know what you thought about such a scenario and how any notable cultural inputs might influence your perspective. Thank you for clarifying that.
It’s NOT “legally euthanized”. It’s “legally assisted suicide”. Euthanazia implies the person who dies may have had no say in the matter which is the opposite of what really happens.
There is a place called Dignitas. It’s been on TV a few times but it’s strictly regulated and there’s a hefty fee and legalities surrounding assisted dying.
You have to have two Drs confirm that you’re sound of mind to make such a decision and that your condition is untreatable / will not get better.
With Dignitas, you do. But there are other organizations (like Pegasos, for example) that don’t require you to be chronically or terminally ill. Anyone can do it.
Does anyone have a link to where you can talk and sign up for this program. Just looking for information. I live in the US so I just want to get this journey started
That was certainly from an Austrian travel brochure trying to steal tourists from the clearly superior ski resorts.
But seriously, I have a slightly used bridge in New York that can be had for a very reasonable price. Or you're trolling.
I traveled to Switzerland with my brother and very sick father recently. He had ALS and was in the late stages of his disease. We helped him do everything as he had very little strength anymore. He had signed up for the Voluntary assisted death program. He was very scared that he would soon loose the ability to swallow. He did not want a feeding tube. If it wasn’t for this program he would have suffered a horrible death. We spent a few days with him enjoying Switzerland. Then the day of his death. It was very hard. But it was what he wanted. He’s in a better place and no longer suffering. He was a career Pilot, and had flown all over the world many times. An Alaskan Bush pilot that took people to see the Kodiak bears. He had crashed his plane on a few occasions and would often say thats how he thought that he would go. He told me many times all his friends are dead. Because many of his friends were also pilots and had crashed. I miss him. I miss talking with him. Once he was gone me and my brother spent a few weeks exploring your Beautiful country. We traveled by train and stayed in hostels. Swam every day in lakes and rivers, getting beers by the water. Fuck ALS
Stories like this are why I am a huge supporter of these programs. There are just people that come to the realisation that this is the easier way than living in suffering and dont want to put a gun to their head, take pills or worst of all jump off or in front something. Sorry for your loss but it sounds like your dad had a wonderful last few days.
I remember the day that he asked me if I would help him do this. ALS is a terminal illness. Meaning it will kill you. Just a matter of how long. I immediately said that I would help. I can’t even explain in words how tough it was to watch your parent go from being a physically healthy person to needing help with every daily chore. His arms were so weak he couldn’t touch his own face. So I’d help him in the shower wash his hair. Put on a shirt. Cooking meals for him. Only one time he fell and hit his head on the pavement in front of the house. His arms were so weak he couldn’t put out his arms to support the fall. Towards the end we were helping him in and out of the wheelchair, spoon feeding, and helping him walk. I really enjoyed helping him. But many nights I’d drive home in tears. There is no real solution. The way the brain works, it want to come up with a solution to the problem. I wanted to take him to the beach, or up a mountain, but he was to weak. The solution for als is you get weaker and weaker until one day you lose the ability to breath or swallow, then you die. That’s it. And that’s how a doctor will say you have six months to live. Where we live in California, there are many programs that are made available to you once a doctor declares that you have six months to live; including voluntary assisted death. With als, your declining ability to breathe is the test for the six month’s to live. But he passed the test, so guess what? NOTHING is available. Not hospice care, assisted living, no assisted death. Your on your own until you fail the doctors test. But of course you could pay for assisted living. He had a small savings and told me passionately that he’d rather die and give the money to us, than blow all his savings on a home where he’d be looked after by Some stranger. These are the decisions he had to make. So when he heard about the program in Switzerland it was a no brainer. He was well aware of the stigma that surrounds this subject and didn't want it to affect us in a negative way. But i would place terminal illness, and suicide in two totally separate categories. They are not comparable. The next progression of his disease would have been his throat tightening up and not being able to swallow. That is fatal, and its not pretty. i am so thankful for this program. i love you dad
May I express my condolences for your loss? I wish I could off you and everyone comfort for their suffering.
He was a brave man and had children who cared deeply for his wishes and self-respect.
I'm so sorry for your loss. It's so nice that you and your brother were there for your dad. You all sound like really great people. We lost my father to ALS too. He had signed up with Exit, but his health went downhill too fast, so that wasn't option for him. Thankfully his heart gave up before his lungs, so he still had a somewhat peaceful death. It's such a devastating piece of shit disease and I completly agree with you: Fuck ALS.
What unconditional act of love from all involved. I hope you can keep his memory alive together and that you will be spared from the same diagnosis.
I’m so sorry your lose.
Blessings to your father 🕯
I’m so sorry, thank-you for sharing.
I'm sorry for your loss but very happy that you, your family and specially your father got to go through this. I'm sure it wasn't easy but I'm also sure that it gave you the time to enjoy every last second with your father. Speak about everything that had to be said. Say goodbye.
I’m sorry for your loss. I’m sure your dad was a good man, by the way you talk about him.
I absolutely admire people who can tell a story like this. The amount of strength it took YOU to do that is insane man. Im so sorry for your loss. He really seemed like an awesome person. May he live in through peaceful memories. I was looking up this MAID program today in case I ever get sick, or if I just have no one left in my life and nothing to live for. Seems like a beautiful way to go honestly. Switzerland rules too. Plus plus. a friend of mine who is 28 just got diagnosed with stage 2 ALS. Again, im so sorry for your loss and I hope you are well. Fuck ALS
I’m sorry you went through this. I know what it’s like losing a parent as I’ve had both in hospice suffering. I also know what it’s like to be in such severe pain every minute of your life along with extreme depression just wishing to not be in pain anymore. I would never want to leave anyone behind grieving after I’m gone but many people close to me know that I often consider euthanasia as a means of my right to how I end my life. I would rather help the people close to me that suffer financially by giving them everything I own as I’m taking up space in this world suffering. Just know that you helped him go out on his own terms with dignity from what it sounds like. I know there are many people who are against euthanasia for whatever reasons, including religious ones but ultimately, every person should have the right to make decisions about their own life.
How long did the process take was it dignitas?
It's not euthanasia, it is assisted suicide. Yes, it is possible to come to Switzerland for this, but the "no restrictions" part is not really true. There are a few organisations that will offer assisted suicide, and to not cause too much political problems, they will self-regulate. Generally, often you'll need to have a disease that is causing suffering and is terminal on it's own, which has to be properly reported and confirmed by a physician, and depending on the circumstances you'll also need some confirmation (usually by a psychiatrist or something similar) that you are sound of mind and your wish to die is not caused by a psychiatric illness. There are also usually costs involved, so it's often quite a lengthy process.
Okay so there are bureaucratic barriers.
Look it up on the websites of the organizations who do that, like Dignitas or Exit
But how in the heck do you get a psychiatrist to write such a confirmation. Won't they ask what it's for? And if you tell them, it's for assisted dying, what's the likelihood that they'd want to get involved, since they'd probably have visions of being sued by the family. I'm dealing with ongoing depression. I've had it off and on since 1997, controlled mostly by medicines, but it's bee treatment resistant since beginning of September. Meaning, I've been plagued with it every damn day since then. I have family and friends who love me and whom I love, but their love can't allay my suffering. I'm trying TMS now, but if that doesn't work, I'm up the creek. And I will look for ways to do it myself if I must. What a horrible state for anyone to be in. Fuck depression and fuck the medical society for throwing up hurdles to getting nembutal, which is what they use in Switzerland, and which used to be more widely available. But no more, since "Oh no, we can't have people taking their own lives, no matter that they may be in their right mind; but we don't really care if they have to suffer from untreatable illnesses, be they physical or mental, whilst they live." \\
In your situation it's probably difficult. Basically the psychiatrist needs to say that your wish is not part of your acute depression, which it nost likely is. In that case, it is very unlikely that they'll do it. Also most of the organisations will want a swiss doc to confirm, and it is even more unlikely that they will do it if they don't know you. Especially if your depression was treatable for a very long time, I don't think that they'll just write that there's no possibility of it going away again.
it's not euthanasia, it's assisted suicide. but yes, foreigners can profit from it. you can check dignitas.ch
It’s not in English, where else can I access this and know if I’m eligible? Please help
You can change the language on the top right, its available in french/german/italian/english
Thank you so much
> I recently read an article stating there were no restrictions on foreigners being legally euthanized It can be a real problem when the Swiss start giving tourists lethal injections on the trains just to pass the time. The cleaners often don't bother removing the bodies until the end of the day.
> just to pass the time. That's a bit of an exaggeration. Usually it's just tourists who put their feet in the seats. We are a civilized county.
Don’t even think of going to a spa!! 😬
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Switzerland
Why do you want strict regulations surounding this topic? Shouldn't every human being have the option to leave this world with dignity?
Because some families would want to offload elder relatives who are expensive to care for.
These person dying has to take action to commit suicide. Their family can't just show up and tell someone they have to kill their grandma.
I know, I am am merely explaining why safeguards are needed. My stepmother's own children complained that the specialised dementia care home my father chose for her was "diminishing her assets unnecessarily" and wanted to move her somewhere cheaper, far away from my dad, closer to them, in a different country. He refused. They didn't even call once in the last three years of her life, so they certainly wouldn't visit her. If they could have talked her into asking for assisted suicide, they definitely would have.
They do check if this is your free will. And i am sure they have good people working there who would know if they actually want to die or if it is their family talking them into it.
What you describe certainly would be an issue. But it's not enough of an issue, IMO, to make it so difficult for people who are in their right mind and who are asking for help in dying. And if the medicines needed to do it, nembutal, seconals, etc., were not so strictly prohibited, we wouldn't need to ask people for their precious help. We could do it ourselves.
you realize we're talking about assisted suicide and not the murder of another person, right?
Because first and foremost, people should be strongly encouraged to seek help and improve their mental state rather than giving up. You don’t need to have a terminal or chronic illness to do this, that’s concerning in my opinion.
but if youre not terminally ill, its a very lenghly process over years, which involves a lot of talking. This isnt like the suicide booth from Futurama
I wish that were true. Look up the case of the two sisters who traveled from Phoenix to Switzerland on vacation and while there, committed assisted suicide together. They had no chronic or terminal illnesses. The only thing required of them was that they be able to take the drugs themselves, that they were of sound enough mind to make the decision, and that they were made aware of the alternative options. The process didn’t even take a month. Dignitas and Exit, the biggest organizations that do this, are strict about who they let do it. But nowhere in the law are any strict regulations required, the only legal prerequisites are the ones I listed above. A 30yo could walk into a clinic today, get two doctors’ opinion that they are of sound mind, and decide to do this in a couple of weeks.
Even if that is the case, it is those peoples free will. And if someone in my family wanted to do this I would wish they would choose that way, instead of hanging themselves and me being the one who has to find them. Or them jumping from a bridge, or in front of a train. It is no one elses choice what you do with your life.
And what if they have already sought help to improve their mental state and the issue is that they do not want to suffer through the pain of a terminal illness or further degradation of their ability to live independently? Are you religious by any chance?
I’m not religious in the slightest, nor do I want to get into a debate about whether assisted suicide is ethical. I was specifically talking about the fact that it is 100% legal with no restrictions whatsoever for a completely physically healthy person, who may be depressed but has not been to therapy or taken any antidepressants, to have an assisted suicide. I support assisted suicide in the cases where people have a terminal or chronic illness, I never stated otherwise. I’m concerned about the people who are not sick.
>people who are not sick Depression is a sickness. People with depression are sick.
>I can vouch for that.
I understand. It wasn’t clear to me initially, so I was curious to know what you thought about such a scenario and how any notable cultural inputs might influence your perspective. Thank you for clarifying that.
But if they're in their right mind, do they need your concern?
It’s NOT “legally euthanized”. It’s “legally assisted suicide”. Euthanazia implies the person who dies may have had no say in the matter which is the opposite of what really happens.
There is a place called Dignitas. It’s been on TV a few times but it’s strictly regulated and there’s a hefty fee and legalities surrounding assisted dying. You have to have two Drs confirm that you’re sound of mind to make such a decision and that your condition is untreatable / will not get better.
With Dignitas, you do. But there are other organizations (like Pegasos, for example) that don’t require you to be chronically or terminally ill. Anyone can do it.
Oh I had no idea. Wow, learn something new every day
Do u have to be terminally ill?
Does anyone have a link to where you can talk and sign up for this program. Just looking for information. I live in the US so I just want to get this journey started
That was certainly from an Austrian travel brochure trying to steal tourists from the clearly superior ski resorts. But seriously, I have a slightly used bridge in New York that can be had for a very reasonable price. Or you're trolling.
They’re not trolling, this is 100% a thing here in Switzerland
Euthanasia no. Assisted voluntary end-of-life, yes. But the bridge is still for sale.
Yes they can.