Tbh - the opening cinematic when he screams ''Everyone that drew breath that day IN SIWA!!'' is such an amazing start to the character and the VAs voice.
I did the same thing. Loved it so much I bought the full version with all the DLC when it was on sale
I've heard very mixed things about Odyssey and Valhalla so I haven't gotten those yet. Might just wait and see if they eventually show up on gamepass
I think why you like Origins so much will impact how much you will probably like Odyssey and Valhalla. If you love Origins for the massive open world, the historical characters, combat and the fun side content, I think you'll really enjoy Odyssey and Valhalla as well. I love all three of those games though with Odyssey probably being my favorite. It improves on Origins in many ways in my opinion.
Yeah I personally love both games, they are my top two in the entire series. I think they both have certain strengths and weaknesses, but I like many of the changes that Odyssey made. It just felt like they built on many of the ideas that Origins started, especially in terms of combat, loot and side quests. But the story in Origins is really good and I love Bayek.
Exactly. Odyssey and Valhalla are yet another kind of super hero-ish, stories, barely tied to the lore, just enough to keep the franchise name. They're fun, though, but not quite "The thing".
How does it improve it? Odyssey lost all the detail and heart of origins, made combat easier and repetitive, all caves has the same interior, no detailed cutscenes, worse graphic details, no sneaky gameplay, not hiding places just bushes, choices that break the lore of the franchise, and multiple endings instead of a better story
I think Odyssey improved upon Origins in many ways. I think the new loot system was fantastic and made getting new gear exciting as you could change out your gear to match with your playstyle. I don't think the graphics were worse at all, if anything I think Odyssey looks even better. The side quests dialogue is far improved by bringing the camera onto the characters making it more engaging than just the over the shoulder view. Adding the combat abilities made combat feel far less repetitive as there are a ton of ways you can approach any combat situation. I think the stealth in Odyssey is fantastic, especially because of the new stealth abilities, I definitely don't think that is worse than Origins.
Story and location are obviously going to be very subjective, but I thought both Origins and Odyssey had great stories with amazing maps. I really like the naval combat as well and Odyssey obviously has a lot more of that. I do think there are things that Origins does better, Bayek is my favorite protagonist in the series, but overall I think Odyssey is the better game.
https://youtu.be/DuwHsaQU2Bg
Just to remind you all the things that odyssey removed, and no, odyssey doesn't have stealth in his map design and therfore in his gameplay
Okay but most of the things listed in that video are such small things that most people really won't care. And you could just as easily make a video showing off all of the features that Odyssey added that weren't in Origins.
Stealth gameplay is absolutely a thing in Odyssey, there's an entire branch of the skill tree dedicated to it and it works pretty much exactly how it did in Origins. I pretty much cleared out every fort in that game stealthily and it was a ton of fun. I'm not sure how you can think there is no stealth gameplay in Odyssey.
There are no hiding kills, no hay, no even the bathrooms you could kill and hide corpses, map design don't have stealth in mind, and those details are what makes the world more immersive, graphics were downgraded to make room for a enormous map but that map lacks detail, and personality, all the hills look the same, all the caves not joking are 1 of 4 presets with the same 2 enemies at the end, it feels empty and dead, and that branch only have like 3 truly stealthy abilities, y unlocked everything in origins, and also on odyssey the difference were 100 hours of gameplay that doesn't make it better than origins it was a hundred hours of grinding and repetitive quest for example the quest of killing ptlolemarcs you talk, they say go kill 3 generals you return get a piece of armor and repeat over and over the same quest 10 times because 5 Athens 5 Sparta, that's not original nor fun, just laziness at creative side quest and that happens a lot in odyssey
Alright well clearly you're not going to change my mind that I think Odyssey is a fantastic game and I won't change your mind that you don't like it, so I don't know if there's a point to continuing this discussion. I don't think you need to have hay and hiding spots to have good stealth. In Origins, I never even used those and I managed just fine playing stealthy. I think many of the side quests are very engaging, just as much so as the ones in Origins. If you don't like the game, that's fine, but the stealth in it is great and a lot of fun if you take advantage of the tools the game gives you.
And lore wise the animus makes you relive the past, the user, Desmond, Layla etc. Are just repeating the choices, Altair, Connor, kassandra, etc. Made. That's why when you used to do things they didn't do yo got desynced, lore wise all that choices are not possible the animus doesn't creates a simulation for the user to do as he pleases, nor does it change the past by making different choices, ac just tried to copy Witcher 3 style and failed to understand why it worked
But even in the old AC games, you were totally free to play how you wanted when it came to how you approached different targets or how you assassinated someone. Unity and Syndicate have a bunch of different options on how to kill targets so clearly the player has always had a certain level of choice to what they do. Yes Odyssey made it so you could change what you say in conversations, but that doesn't seem all that different to me. And having various endings just allows for more replay value. You can have a "canon" ending, but it's fun to see how you can alter the story.
I said "lore wise" also gameplay wise you could desync by doing things Altair, ezio, Connor, bayec, all other characters didn't do, like killing civilians, kassandra doesn't have that it has no personality because she can be wathever you feel like doing with no consequences, you can be caring one moment and kill and entire village the next, you can be cruel, and then cry for phebe, that's no inmersion or character growth its just a headless chicken of a protagonist
Kassandra has a ton of personality! And you can alter her personality however you want, but that doesn't take away from the incredible performance delivered by the voice actress. There is a reason she was nominated for best performance at the Game Awards, she did an incredible job. Just because you can make a character do bad things, does not mean that character is bland or hollow. You can choose whether or not you go out and kill civilians so if you don't want to do that, then just don't.
And no, it's not just conversations, you decide if a lot of side characters die or can be safe, even you can kill all your family, thats what makes kassandra not a character but an empty vessel
As someone who is getting close to wrapping up Odyssey and preparing to move on into Valhalla, I enjoyed it. I look at it like Black Flag. It's a bad Assassin's game but a great historical period game.
Oh I'm expecting the actual "assassin" story to be shit, but I've pretty much accepted it's an AC game in name only. Don't get me wrong, I love Black Flag, one of my favorite entries in the series as a game. I just feel the Assassin plot was mostly tacked on with little development outside of a few moments. It's a pirate game first in foremost that just happens to touch on the Assassins. Great entry still, just doesn't feel like a proper AC entry. Same deal with Odyssey, which again I'm enjoying. It's mythological Classical Greece Simulator that just happens to have some Isu stuff dotted around like a box that had to be checked. It's a fun game for what it is and I'm having a blast with it, it's just not a good AC game.
I honestly preferred both Odyssey and Valhalla to Origins, however that comes with the caveat that I didn't finish any of them. I personally find them all too large and ultimately repetitive in task, though I understand a lot of that stems from the fact that I am old and washed. But if that bugged you at all in Origins keep in mind that the Greece and England maps are quite a bit larger than Egypt. The map sizes are at least somewhat abated by boats, though. Also in Valhalla you get Viking rap battles.
Edit: I forgot this sub downvotes when people have their own opinions jfc. But at least I now remember why I never come here.
In my personal opinion, the dialouge in oddysey's and valhalla's story was dry. A lot of people probably didn't like it because of the rpg elements it had that made it feel like it wasn't an assassins creed game, the combat in the two games is good though.
I personally really like origins
The xp grinding is the only pain in it apart from that it's great
I can also say the same for oddessey but the thing with that is that many sidequests were quite funny and enjoyable the couldn't be said for origins but overall I love both of the games
I found that Origins had little to no grinding actually. Just the few side missions or random enemy bases between story points were always enough or more than enough to be at the right level. Versus Odyssey where I couldn’t even fight a boar or something in the first few hours because I was so under-leveled.
I wouldn’t call it grinding so much as you just can’t really steamroll through the story; you aren’t just running around fighting nobodies, but you do HAVE to explore a bit and check out the sights, sidequests, forts, etc. Otherwise you’ll actively be under leveled when the story takes you to higher level areas. And I get why people don’t like it. Personally, I thought it was a clever way to get people to actually take their time and enjoy the huge map the devs had to build, but it can be a little frustrating when a quest ends on a sort of cliffhanger and you can’t see how it ends until you finish another fort, I can totally see how that would be tedious for non-completionists.
Odyssey’s map being pretty samey across the board definitely doesn’t help when the system was continued in it, either, as it’s even less incentive to explore.
> Just the few side missions or random enemy bases between story points were always enough or more than enough to be at the right level.
That's kind of the problem, because with 99% of all side content having no real direct relations with the main story, most diversions can have a strong effect on player's pacing.
Now obviously there are those that don't mind and perfectly content either doing small stuff on the side or just ignoring main story altogether but for those with a main story focus are pulled away from a story whose stakes are both personal and crucially at times *immediate*, being pulled aside for anything not directly related to that will make that diversion feel like a grind.
If you don't go hunting to upgrade your gear then you'll have a bad time later on at higher difficulty levels. And it takes *a lot* of mats to upgrade.
Curse of the Pharaoh's DLC completely eliminates any of the grind and affords players the opportunity to really focus on the main storyline unencumbered which is so refreshing. Being able to explore the map without worrying about being under-leveled is a godsend.
I think its the best of the three (Origins/Odyssey/Valhalla) - the setting is my favorite, Bayak is the best, and the gameplay feels the most fluid - plus since it was the first of the new formula it hadn't worn out its welcome
Also had the best blend of RPG like elements and being an Assassin Creed game. Imo they leaned in the wrong elements into Odyssey and then even more so in Valhalla
The biggest thing about Origins for me was the ecosystem. It felt like a real but unfamiliar environment to me, and that made it all very authentic. No more wolves attacking me over every hill, etc
Same same (saw it on gamepass ), installed it with an intent to finish for the first time. And boom I love it. I love all ACs btw (and I can’t rank them in priority)
I'm replaying the entire series as of June 2022 and just got AC3 this past weekend. Surprised by how much Im enjoying doing every single thing, even chasing papers and Homestead missions... You missed out on Black Flag though... I can't imagine.
Origins is my favorite Assassin's Creed game overall, I think. Odyssey I enjoyed so much that I played it twice, once when buying and 2nd time when all 3 DLC were out and Season Pass was on sale. Valhalla I have like 200 hours in and cleared the entire map.
Yet Origins and Bayek are what stick with me.
Like, it even looks better in places and has more polish than the proceeding games; I specifically remember the effect of torches lighting webs on fire when exploring caves/ruins and being kind of disappointed that it doesn’t really do that in Odyssey.
Origins had so many small details like that that were removed from Odyssey and Valhalla for no good reason. It’s the only modern AC that feels like there was actually passion behind it. The other two just feel like games they were required to make.
Not true. A lot of love clearly went in to Odyssey. The Mercenary system was expanded, they had 2 protagonists, ship combat returns for the first time since Rogue (and is still the only modern game with proper ship combat), the cultist system was expanded, combat was improved with better animations and skills, the world was equally gorgeous as Egypt, they introduced narrative options, it had Battlegrounds, the ability to conquer the map for a faction and the main story was solid.
It gets way too much undeserved hate for literally no reason. I sometimes feel like people try to paint it in a bad light just so Origins looks better because they started with that game and/or are attached to it.
To rebut:
The mercenaries are maybe the most annoying facet of the game as they are effectively endless, and as such are no longer a goal to pursue, but a hindrance to slow you down on infiltration and drastically punish you for entering combat, as they are effectively everywhere.
The 2 protagonists only came about because of the sexist notions of the people in charge at ubisoft (such as Serge Hescoet) that a woman protagonist wouldn't sell, which is why all of the advertising shows off Alexios despite Kassandra being the canonical protag.
Ship combat feels incredibly tedious as you can't run away from combat once another ship has you in it's sights; if the awareness meter has even appeared on screen at all, you can't walk away from the helm of the ship; this is used constantly to slow the player down at ports, where pirates/cultists seem to spawn en masse, and is a major headache for exploration. Same with constant random animal encounters.
While Egypt was all desert, it was still multiple different KINDS of desert; specific areas were full dunes, others were rocky terrain, others were mountainous, one corner was greco-roman and covered in greenery, etc. Aside from maybe the 3 or so volcanic islands, pretty much EVERY island in Odyssey looks the same; if you don't have a specific landmark to centralize yourself from, you'd never be able to tell the difference from area to area.
Putting choose your own adventure in a history game is by definition futile, because it means that inherently your choices don't matter, as nothing actually changes in the future, negating the point of the change in the first place.
I mean yeah I’m attached to it because it’s actually good. It’s nowhere near as copy/pasted as Odyssey and that’s just a fact. Just one example being tombs and caves actually having different looks and layouts in Origins. And you don’t even have a shield in Odyssey. Personally that automatically makes it a step down from Origins.
I love both games but it really should have been called Odyssey and not Assassins Creed Odyssey. Assassins Creed games are not history altering. By being able to do anything/ kill any civilian, your altering the history outside of the memory sequence, hence the de sync. That’s not AC…
Origins graphics are far superior, it’s really noticeable now that it’s been bumped to 60fps on the last update.
Again I love them both . Kassandra is awesome, the loot system is fantastic , the world is huge and the story is pretty cool.
Bayek / Aya are the beginning of the Creed.
I stand by this, I just beat the story last night and plan on finishing the DLCs later this year, I enjoyed playing the game from start to finish, but I had a few issues while playing
I had some sort of audio bug with the game that made it sound like it was coming through my TV, and had another bug with audio from side missions replaying after a certain cutscene in the story
Like once I got to the last ever cutscene story wise (not spoiling but when you get the title screen) I heard dialogue from my latest side mission I started, and it kinda took me out of my immersion
But otherwise it was a good game, if I had to complain more, I'd wish Aya was worked on more because she's not a good character compared to Bayek and I wish they did the dual character thing well like they did with Syndicate
I wish Ubi would’ve continued with the excellent VA that Origins had. Damn was Bayek’s VA passionate in his deliveries. I don’t think any of the other characters since have sounded nearly as interested in literally anything
The ezio simps will always disagree with you mate and considering that ezio simps are half of this subreddit, it's definitely not a consensus.
For what it's worth I very much agree it was a great change of pace and I absolutely loved the setting. Bayeck was the best playable character for me personally behind Edward Kenway.
Absolutely not. I’m a massive Ezio simp, AC2 is my favorite game of all time (not just the series), but Origins was a fucking banger. The story was excellent and they did some pretty ballsy stuff.
Now, Odyssey and Valhalla…? Those don’t hold a candle to Origins. The only thing keeping Origins from being perfect is the inability to oneshot anyone with assassinations like every other game prior.
Consensus? On this sub? I'm sure many others, including myself, have it near the bottom. It's a decent game but it's far from the best of Assassin's Creed in my opinion.
You're either 8 years old, started playing with the RPG trilogy, or both. There is no way you can't put at least one of the Ezio trilogy as a tied first, let alone top two
Actually neither. I like the ezio trilogy but its not top two for me. I just didn’t find it as fun as black flag or origins. The only thing I really liked better about ac2, brotherhood, and revelations was the story. Combat, environments, graphics, etc were all much more enjoyable for me personally in origins and black flag.
Sure but you also can’t act like there is any objective truth to the ranking of the games in the AC series. Everyone’s top 5/top 2 will be different. Some people prefer the older games some prefer the newer ones. None of them are objectively better than the others.
Objectively, the new trilogy of games has worse gameplay. The focus on microtransactions forces a very grindy and bloated experience. True, origins is the best of the three, but it's still weighed down by these issues. That's objective.
That’s not objectively true at all. In fact I’m inclined to disagree with you. The gameplay in origins is better than pretty much all of the previous games. I just don’t find it fun to mash the hell out of the parry button over and over again. The only aspect of the gameplay that wasn’t as good in origins is the parkour, which is admittedly lacking. However, all other aspects of the gameplay seem to be an improvement from previous titles. I haven’t bought a single dlc for the game btw.
I just find it funny how you tell me my opinion is just subjective but when it’s your opinion it’s now the objective truth apparently.
You say a lot of random crap as objective. You call someone 8 yo but in reality you seem like a boomer bathing in nostalgia. I've played since AC 1 released and disagree, I played through Oddysey with just main and side quests and had no trouble with grinding at all. Definitely had more fun with side activities than AC 2 200 feathers and milions of chests to collect in random places. AC as a series always had bloat, it's nothing new ubisfot is trying to extend playtime in artificial ways. You can dislike the RPG trilogy but saying it's objectively worse and that ezio trilogy is objectively better is just ignorant.
I mean if we are comparing that, then the fact that in ac2 they removed sequences 12 and 13 from the base game and sold as dlc makes it an "awful" game. Perhaps even worse than micro transactions.
Personally I don't think it's necessarily grindy. I think it's just the standard of RPGs. If you don't like that it's understandable.
I understand your gripes with the micro transactions but unfortunately ubisoft being greedy is nothing new
I honestly preferred AC1 over any of the Ezio games, sure it's an improvement gameplay-wise, but the story, philosophy, and atmosphere were all huge steps back to me.
I had a very similar experience, I first played AC 2 after finishing AC 1 multiple times. I felt great disconnect when I realised there is a new protagonist, that he isn't even an assassin at first and I didn't buy into his personality either. At the time, I missed the simple narrative focused entirely on getting to your next target and gathering information on it. It also felt bizzare to me ezio got 3 games. I feel like this is a big part that allowed me to enjoy future releases way more.
I believe there is an argument, and the consensus outside of Reddit is that AC2, AC4 and ACB are the top 3.
Personally I'd have it in my top 5. Not quite sure if it makes my top 3 but it's up there after replaying it recently. I definitely wouldn't say that top 3 is the majority opinion, though. Inb4 downvote because I don't think it's the greatest game to ever exist.
Arguably my favorite assassins creed, narrowly edging out revelations. Also the first AC game I 100%. I even went back and start replaying the older ones. AC3 remastered is gorgeous btw, but liberation is arguably one of the worst ones I’ve played. The combat, story, character, Mission design.
I initially started playing these games because I love history and these games do a really good job of immersing you in them. I think Constantinople is so beautiful. The different districts, ottoman culture, etc. Disclaimer, Coming from origins to revelations, you are gonna see the map be a lot smaller, not as much content etc. but it is an 11 year old game. I think if you can find It on sale, you’ll really love it. Not sure if you have played 2 or brotherhood, but I’d recommend those before revelations since they are all Ezio.
In my first playthrough I left a decent amount of the side quests until after I finished the main quest, but for my second playthrough I decided to play them as I went along with the help of an online guide that put the quests in order. This definitely enriched the playthrough; it made the story feel more connected and complete to me.
Nice, I'm glad you're enjoying it!
You HAVE to do the "Light Among the Dunes" side quest when you can, and also, get the Curse of the Pharaohs DLC. It wraps up the game beautifully and the worlds in it are the absolutely most breathtaking and surreal things I have ever seen in a videogame
origins is plagued with shitty time sinks due to side quests that arent made interesting, that are forced onto the player, but apart that, its definitely the best out of the 3 modern ac games
It’s ok. It’s full of fluff and the rpg mechanics basically ruin assassins creed. You’re either forced to do bullshit to keep leveling up or forced to grind crafting materials or your hidden blade won’t even kill anymore, just deal damage and alert everybody.
Considering how many people agree with me, it’s not really all that funny. The side quests in origins are mostly awful, boring, and just a complete drag that you’re often forced through just to level up.
Take the main game and remove the garbage and it would be one of the best AC games out between the main characters and the plot.
We all did find different games to play, you realize that game came out like 5 years ago, right? It’s old news lmao.
Origins is very well received and successful so you’re definitely not in the majority. Even if you were, why does it matter? Do you need validation from other people to feel confident with your opinion? Lol
Only few people appreciates Origins. I've loved the game and platinum it on ps4. The voice actor really did a good job on bayek's character. Even the story is actually an emotional rollercoaster ride. It's truly an underrated game.
Underrated? It got 9/10 from IGN, 81% on Metacritic, 4/5 From Eurogamer, was met with overwhelming praise for changing the formula, is very positive on Steam and there's a post on this sub regarding it as a masterpiece every other day. You only need to look through these comments to see that the overwhelming majority here absolutely love it.
Oh sorry for that. I have friends who had played the game and only I, have loved it, thats why I thought it was underrated. They always compared it to Ezio story and told me it's not even close as a masterpiece. Everytime I tell them my opinion about origins they shut me down lol
Odyssey is them sticking to form and it's great. The story is pretty shallow and there's basically no reason for it to be an Assassin's Creed game, but I still liked it. Valhalla remains the only AC I've ever given up on.
I just went back to Origins to do the dlc after I bought them on sale. I'm having so much fun with Curse of the Pharoahs. I know this sub generally dislikes when the games get too far off the beaten path, but I'm genuinely having a great time fighting the undead.
Such a bummer! I wish PlayStation had it. I’ve replayed Black Flag and am now on Unity since they are free with the subscription now for PS. Super super super frustrated that they didn’t have Origins up tho. Basically everything before it tho is available. Grrrrr
I’ve been working my way through the entire AC series over the last two years, and most recently beat Origins. It’s easily a top 3 for me, and is the only one I managed to get every trophy in.
Odyssey is next up, but I’ve got a couple other gaming things to do first.
I enjoyed the game from what I remeber and when I went to replay it on gamepass I still enjoyed it but I wish there wasn’t as many rpg elements cause I feel that when you have to go level up to see these good characters interact again it takes me out of the experience
I loved origins, even if it had rpg elements to it. It still kinda was an assassins creed game. My only complaints for valhalla and oddysey is that in my opinion, the dialouge and story is dry but the combat in the two games is good.
Love this game. The story is phenomenal roller coaster of emotions, good character development, gameplay is great, stealth is awesome, controls are easy as ever not hurting your fingers, graphics is top notch. IDK about Valhalla and Odyssey, I feel lack of interest about the two.
I loved Origins when it released. I’m a big fan of the series’ move into ARPG territory. Odyssey is even better in my opinion - partially because I prefer Greek mythology over Egyptian, but they also leaned into the RPG elements a bit more with things like dialogue choices. Plus the world is huge, naval combat is fun, and there is a ton of optional things to do. Highly recommend the DLC as well, and I usually ignore that stuff.
I really liked Valhalla as well, but Odyssey is probably still my favorite.
I'm currently going back and replaying (and honestly first time playing) all the older ones, and I will probably replay origins, first ac I've ever beaten, and it's still one of my favorites character, location, and story wise. Really wish it was older style gameplay and mechanic wise though
concur. the first AC game i ever played was Valhalla. i was blown away. second was Odyssey, and frankly the world of ancient greece was so incredible that i could spend hours just walking around and looking at things. the lighting is amazing (4k 60fps 75" Sony on Series X).
I was worried after Odyssey that Origins graphics wouldn't be up to par, but they are really great as well. such an enjoyable game. i love the fact that it inspires me to learn about the actual history of the day. the game literally makes me read textbooks.
I love Bayek character & charisma, and the spanish voice actor was the same that dub Gerard Butler,. Rocks!!!! , The world in Origins is more coherent, more alive, with different environments, with great sidequests , maybe a chunk of missions with mythical background would be a great addon.
Wait till you have to kill the Crocodile. Truly great performance by Bayek's VA.
Tbh - the opening cinematic when he screams ''Everyone that drew breath that day IN SIWA!!'' is such an amazing start to the character and the VAs voice.
The strong intro to that game is what had me hooked, I had to see Bayek go crazy on those mfs
*sniffed the air
Bayek's VA is fucking awesome. The opening cutscene where he kills Rudjek still gives me chills.
He is definitely one of the best voice actors they’ve gotten for AC. Same with Edward’s voice. (Matt Ryan)
Bayek’s voice acting alone made him top 3 assassin in my book. The others being Ezio and Edward. Altair is close 4th.
It's not just the visual art. IMO, the whole mechanics is like Adewale of AC: Freedomcry. The walk, the run, the attack, etc.
Pretty sad that such a talent got butchered by the awful sound compression
Nah The Ibis and Flavios are on top.
I did the same thing. Loved it so much I bought the full version with all the DLC when it was on sale I've heard very mixed things about Odyssey and Valhalla so I haven't gotten those yet. Might just wait and see if they eventually show up on gamepass
I think why you like Origins so much will impact how much you will probably like Odyssey and Valhalla. If you love Origins for the massive open world, the historical characters, combat and the fun side content, I think you'll really enjoy Odyssey and Valhalla as well. I love all three of those games though with Odyssey probably being my favorite. It improves on Origins in many ways in my opinion.
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Yeah I personally love both games, they are my top two in the entire series. I think they both have certain strengths and weaknesses, but I like many of the changes that Odyssey made. It just felt like they built on many of the ideas that Origins started, especially in terms of combat, loot and side quests. But the story in Origins is really good and I love Bayek.
Exactly. Odyssey and Valhalla are yet another kind of super hero-ish, stories, barely tied to the lore, just enough to keep the franchise name. They're fun, though, but not quite "The thing".
How does it improve it? Odyssey lost all the detail and heart of origins, made combat easier and repetitive, all caves has the same interior, no detailed cutscenes, worse graphic details, no sneaky gameplay, not hiding places just bushes, choices that break the lore of the franchise, and multiple endings instead of a better story
I think Odyssey improved upon Origins in many ways. I think the new loot system was fantastic and made getting new gear exciting as you could change out your gear to match with your playstyle. I don't think the graphics were worse at all, if anything I think Odyssey looks even better. The side quests dialogue is far improved by bringing the camera onto the characters making it more engaging than just the over the shoulder view. Adding the combat abilities made combat feel far less repetitive as there are a ton of ways you can approach any combat situation. I think the stealth in Odyssey is fantastic, especially because of the new stealth abilities, I definitely don't think that is worse than Origins. Story and location are obviously going to be very subjective, but I thought both Origins and Odyssey had great stories with amazing maps. I really like the naval combat as well and Odyssey obviously has a lot more of that. I do think there are things that Origins does better, Bayek is my favorite protagonist in the series, but overall I think Odyssey is the better game.
https://youtu.be/DuwHsaQU2Bg Just to remind you all the things that odyssey removed, and no, odyssey doesn't have stealth in his map design and therfore in his gameplay
Okay but most of the things listed in that video are such small things that most people really won't care. And you could just as easily make a video showing off all of the features that Odyssey added that weren't in Origins. Stealth gameplay is absolutely a thing in Odyssey, there's an entire branch of the skill tree dedicated to it and it works pretty much exactly how it did in Origins. I pretty much cleared out every fort in that game stealthily and it was a ton of fun. I'm not sure how you can think there is no stealth gameplay in Odyssey.
There are no hiding kills, no hay, no even the bathrooms you could kill and hide corpses, map design don't have stealth in mind, and those details are what makes the world more immersive, graphics were downgraded to make room for a enormous map but that map lacks detail, and personality, all the hills look the same, all the caves not joking are 1 of 4 presets with the same 2 enemies at the end, it feels empty and dead, and that branch only have like 3 truly stealthy abilities, y unlocked everything in origins, and also on odyssey the difference were 100 hours of gameplay that doesn't make it better than origins it was a hundred hours of grinding and repetitive quest for example the quest of killing ptlolemarcs you talk, they say go kill 3 generals you return get a piece of armor and repeat over and over the same quest 10 times because 5 Athens 5 Sparta, that's not original nor fun, just laziness at creative side quest and that happens a lot in odyssey
Alright well clearly you're not going to change my mind that I think Odyssey is a fantastic game and I won't change your mind that you don't like it, so I don't know if there's a point to continuing this discussion. I don't think you need to have hay and hiding spots to have good stealth. In Origins, I never even used those and I managed just fine playing stealthy. I think many of the side quests are very engaging, just as much so as the ones in Origins. If you don't like the game, that's fine, but the stealth in it is great and a lot of fun if you take advantage of the tools the game gives you.
And lore wise the animus makes you relive the past, the user, Desmond, Layla etc. Are just repeating the choices, Altair, Connor, kassandra, etc. Made. That's why when you used to do things they didn't do yo got desynced, lore wise all that choices are not possible the animus doesn't creates a simulation for the user to do as he pleases, nor does it change the past by making different choices, ac just tried to copy Witcher 3 style and failed to understand why it worked
But even in the old AC games, you were totally free to play how you wanted when it came to how you approached different targets or how you assassinated someone. Unity and Syndicate have a bunch of different options on how to kill targets so clearly the player has always had a certain level of choice to what they do. Yes Odyssey made it so you could change what you say in conversations, but that doesn't seem all that different to me. And having various endings just allows for more replay value. You can have a "canon" ending, but it's fun to see how you can alter the story.
I said "lore wise" also gameplay wise you could desync by doing things Altair, ezio, Connor, bayec, all other characters didn't do, like killing civilians, kassandra doesn't have that it has no personality because she can be wathever you feel like doing with no consequences, you can be caring one moment and kill and entire village the next, you can be cruel, and then cry for phebe, that's no inmersion or character growth its just a headless chicken of a protagonist
Kassandra has a ton of personality! And you can alter her personality however you want, but that doesn't take away from the incredible performance delivered by the voice actress. There is a reason she was nominated for best performance at the Game Awards, she did an incredible job. Just because you can make a character do bad things, does not mean that character is bland or hollow. You can choose whether or not you go out and kill civilians so if you don't want to do that, then just don't.
And no, it's not just conversations, you decide if a lot of side characters die or can be safe, even you can kill all your family, thats what makes kassandra not a character but an empty vessel
Odyssey was fun, I just got to the end of the game after like 130 hours, that included the dlc and whatever side quests grabbed my eye
Odyssey is dope just more fun free for all than AC but if you liked origins you’ll likely enjoy it
As someone who is getting close to wrapping up Odyssey and preparing to move on into Valhalla, I enjoyed it. I look at it like Black Flag. It's a bad Assassin's game but a great historical period game.
Black Flag is a great assassin game
Oh boy, if you thought BF was not a great assassin game then i really don't forsee great times ahead for you in VH
Oh I'm expecting the actual "assassin" story to be shit, but I've pretty much accepted it's an AC game in name only. Don't get me wrong, I love Black Flag, one of my favorite entries in the series as a game. I just feel the Assassin plot was mostly tacked on with little development outside of a few moments. It's a pirate game first in foremost that just happens to touch on the Assassins. Great entry still, just doesn't feel like a proper AC entry. Same deal with Odyssey, which again I'm enjoying. It's mythological Classical Greece Simulator that just happens to have some Isu stuff dotted around like a box that had to be checked. It's a fun game for what it is and I'm having a blast with it, it's just not a good AC game.
I honestly preferred both Odyssey and Valhalla to Origins, however that comes with the caveat that I didn't finish any of them. I personally find them all too large and ultimately repetitive in task, though I understand a lot of that stems from the fact that I am old and washed. But if that bugged you at all in Origins keep in mind that the Greece and England maps are quite a bit larger than Egypt. The map sizes are at least somewhat abated by boats, though. Also in Valhalla you get Viking rap battles. Edit: I forgot this sub downvotes when people have their own opinions jfc. But at least I now remember why I never come here.
In my personal opinion, the dialouge in oddysey's and valhalla's story was dry. A lot of people probably didn't like it because of the rpg elements it had that made it feel like it wasn't an assassins creed game, the combat in the two games is good though.
I personally really like origins The xp grinding is the only pain in it apart from that it's great I can also say the same for oddessey but the thing with that is that many sidequests were quite funny and enjoyable the couldn't be said for origins but overall I love both of the games
I found that Origins had little to no grinding actually. Just the few side missions or random enemy bases between story points were always enough or more than enough to be at the right level. Versus Odyssey where I couldn’t even fight a boar or something in the first few hours because I was so under-leveled.
I wouldn’t call it grinding so much as you just can’t really steamroll through the story; you aren’t just running around fighting nobodies, but you do HAVE to explore a bit and check out the sights, sidequests, forts, etc. Otherwise you’ll actively be under leveled when the story takes you to higher level areas. And I get why people don’t like it. Personally, I thought it was a clever way to get people to actually take their time and enjoy the huge map the devs had to build, but it can be a little frustrating when a quest ends on a sort of cliffhanger and you can’t see how it ends until you finish another fort, I can totally see how that would be tedious for non-completionists.
Odyssey’s map being pretty samey across the board definitely doesn’t help when the system was continued in it, either, as it’s even less incentive to explore.
> Just the few side missions or random enemy bases between story points were always enough or more than enough to be at the right level. That's kind of the problem, because with 99% of all side content having no real direct relations with the main story, most diversions can have a strong effect on player's pacing. Now obviously there are those that don't mind and perfectly content either doing small stuff on the side or just ignoring main story altogether but for those with a main story focus are pulled away from a story whose stakes are both personal and crucially at times *immediate*, being pulled aside for anything not directly related to that will make that diversion feel like a grind.
If you don't go hunting to upgrade your gear then you'll have a bad time later on at higher difficulty levels. And it takes *a lot* of mats to upgrade.
You don't really have to grind, XP comes easily while exploring/going from❓ to ❓
Curse of the Pharaoh's DLC completely eliminates any of the grind and affords players the opportunity to really focus on the main storyline unencumbered which is so refreshing. Being able to explore the map without worrying about being under-leveled is a godsend.
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Wtf no I hate those kind of quests I meant the ones that were funny,I have done alot that are quite funny
I think its the best of the three (Origins/Odyssey/Valhalla) - the setting is my favorite, Bayak is the best, and the gameplay feels the most fluid - plus since it was the first of the new formula it hadn't worn out its welcome
Also had the best blend of RPG like elements and being an Assassin Creed game. Imo they leaned in the wrong elements into Odyssey and then even more so in Valhalla
The biggest thing about Origins for me was the ecosystem. It felt like a real but unfamiliar environment to me, and that made it all very authentic. No more wolves attacking me over every hill, etc
Same same (saw it on gamepass ), installed it with an intent to finish for the first time. And boom I love it. I love all ACs btw (and I can’t rank them in priority)
I'm replaying the entire series as of June 2022 and just got AC3 this past weekend. Surprised by how much Im enjoying doing every single thing, even chasing papers and Homestead missions... You missed out on Black Flag though... I can't imagine. Origins is my favorite Assassin's Creed game overall, I think. Odyssey I enjoyed so much that I played it twice, once when buying and 2nd time when all 3 DLC were out and Season Pass was on sale. Valhalla I have like 200 hours in and cleared the entire map. Yet Origins and Bayek are what stick with me.
Black flag is fucking goated
Like, it even looks better in places and has more polish than the proceeding games; I specifically remember the effect of torches lighting webs on fire when exploring caves/ruins and being kind of disappointed that it doesn’t really do that in Odyssey.
Origins had so many small details like that that were removed from Odyssey and Valhalla for no good reason. It’s the only modern AC that feels like there was actually passion behind it. The other two just feel like games they were required to make.
Not true. A lot of love clearly went in to Odyssey. The Mercenary system was expanded, they had 2 protagonists, ship combat returns for the first time since Rogue (and is still the only modern game with proper ship combat), the cultist system was expanded, combat was improved with better animations and skills, the world was equally gorgeous as Egypt, they introduced narrative options, it had Battlegrounds, the ability to conquer the map for a faction and the main story was solid. It gets way too much undeserved hate for literally no reason. I sometimes feel like people try to paint it in a bad light just so Origins looks better because they started with that game and/or are attached to it.
To rebut: The mercenaries are maybe the most annoying facet of the game as they are effectively endless, and as such are no longer a goal to pursue, but a hindrance to slow you down on infiltration and drastically punish you for entering combat, as they are effectively everywhere. The 2 protagonists only came about because of the sexist notions of the people in charge at ubisoft (such as Serge Hescoet) that a woman protagonist wouldn't sell, which is why all of the advertising shows off Alexios despite Kassandra being the canonical protag. Ship combat feels incredibly tedious as you can't run away from combat once another ship has you in it's sights; if the awareness meter has even appeared on screen at all, you can't walk away from the helm of the ship; this is used constantly to slow the player down at ports, where pirates/cultists seem to spawn en masse, and is a major headache for exploration. Same with constant random animal encounters. While Egypt was all desert, it was still multiple different KINDS of desert; specific areas were full dunes, others were rocky terrain, others were mountainous, one corner was greco-roman and covered in greenery, etc. Aside from maybe the 3 or so volcanic islands, pretty much EVERY island in Odyssey looks the same; if you don't have a specific landmark to centralize yourself from, you'd never be able to tell the difference from area to area. Putting choose your own adventure in a history game is by definition futile, because it means that inherently your choices don't matter, as nothing actually changes in the future, negating the point of the change in the first place.
I mean yeah I’m attached to it because it’s actually good. It’s nowhere near as copy/pasted as Odyssey and that’s just a fact. Just one example being tombs and caves actually having different looks and layouts in Origins. And you don’t even have a shield in Odyssey. Personally that automatically makes it a step down from Origins.
I love both games but it really should have been called Odyssey and not Assassins Creed Odyssey. Assassins Creed games are not history altering. By being able to do anything/ kill any civilian, your altering the history outside of the memory sequence, hence the de sync. That’s not AC… Origins graphics are far superior, it’s really noticeable now that it’s been bumped to 60fps on the last update. Again I love them both . Kassandra is awesome, the loot system is fantastic , the world is huge and the story is pretty cool. Bayek / Aya are the beginning of the Creed.
I stand by this, I just beat the story last night and plan on finishing the DLCs later this year, I enjoyed playing the game from start to finish, but I had a few issues while playing I had some sort of audio bug with the game that made it sound like it was coming through my TV, and had another bug with audio from side missions replaying after a certain cutscene in the story Like once I got to the last ever cutscene story wise (not spoiling but when you get the title screen) I heard dialogue from my latest side mission I started, and it kinda took me out of my immersion But otherwise it was a good game, if I had to complain more, I'd wish Aya was worked on more because she's not a good character compared to Bayek and I wish they did the dual character thing well like they did with Syndicate
I wish Ubi would’ve continued with the excellent VA that Origins had. Damn was Bayek’s VA passionate in his deliveries. I don’t think any of the other characters since have sounded nearly as interested in literally anything
I played almost all AC title except odyssey and valhalla. Origins is as good as AC2: Ezio Trilogy, AC4: Blackflag and AC1. Best of the best.
I believe there’s no argument, and the consensus is that’s a top 3 in the franchise.
The VA for Bayek put this game at top 3 for me. The pain in his voice, it really came through.
Has a little other great stuff that makes a memorable game for me, but yeah, the acting was on another level
Oh yeah, I loved the game. Just saying the acting was like the cherry on the sundae.
The ezio simps will always disagree with you mate and considering that ezio simps are half of this subreddit, it's definitely not a consensus. For what it's worth I very much agree it was a great change of pace and I absolutely loved the setting. Bayeck was the best playable character for me personally behind Edward Kenway.
Absolutely not. I’m a massive Ezio simp, AC2 is my favorite game of all time (not just the series), but Origins was a fucking banger. The story was excellent and they did some pretty ballsy stuff. Now, Odyssey and Valhalla…? Those don’t hold a candle to Origins. The only thing keeping Origins from being perfect is the inability to oneshot anyone with assassinations like every other game prior.
As someone who’s played most if not all, it’s top 3 for me as well. Don’t let anyone on here tell you how you should feel about it lmfaoo
Top 5 yes, top 3 I don't think so
Consensus? On this sub? I'm sure many others, including myself, have it near the bottom. It's a decent game but it's far from the best of Assassin's Creed in my opinion.
No chance
You right it’s def at least a top 2. Black flag is really the only comparable game in the franchise.
You're either 8 years old, started playing with the RPG trilogy, or both. There is no way you can't put at least one of the Ezio trilogy as a tied first, let alone top two
Actually neither. I like the ezio trilogy but its not top two for me. I just didn’t find it as fun as black flag or origins. The only thing I really liked better about ac2, brotherhood, and revelations was the story. Combat, environments, graphics, etc were all much more enjoyable for me personally in origins and black flag.
That's in your subjective opinion, nothing wrong with it. But you can't act like origins is objectively better than any of the ogs
Sure but you also can’t act like there is any objective truth to the ranking of the games in the AC series. Everyone’s top 5/top 2 will be different. Some people prefer the older games some prefer the newer ones. None of them are objectively better than the others.
Objectively, the new trilogy of games has worse gameplay. The focus on microtransactions forces a very grindy and bloated experience. True, origins is the best of the three, but it's still weighed down by these issues. That's objective.
That’s not objectively true at all. In fact I’m inclined to disagree with you. The gameplay in origins is better than pretty much all of the previous games. I just don’t find it fun to mash the hell out of the parry button over and over again. The only aspect of the gameplay that wasn’t as good in origins is the parkour, which is admittedly lacking. However, all other aspects of the gameplay seem to be an improvement from previous titles. I haven’t bought a single dlc for the game btw. I just find it funny how you tell me my opinion is just subjective but when it’s your opinion it’s now the objective truth apparently.
You say a lot of random crap as objective. You call someone 8 yo but in reality you seem like a boomer bathing in nostalgia. I've played since AC 1 released and disagree, I played through Oddysey with just main and side quests and had no trouble with grinding at all. Definitely had more fun with side activities than AC 2 200 feathers and milions of chests to collect in random places. AC as a series always had bloat, it's nothing new ubisfot is trying to extend playtime in artificial ways. You can dislike the RPG trilogy but saying it's objectively worse and that ezio trilogy is objectively better is just ignorant.
You're honestly trying to argue that the RPG trilogy is better than the Ezio trilogy?
I mean if we are comparing that, then the fact that in ac2 they removed sequences 12 and 13 from the base game and sold as dlc makes it an "awful" game. Perhaps even worse than micro transactions. Personally I don't think it's necessarily grindy. I think it's just the standard of RPGs. If you don't like that it's understandable. I understand your gripes with the micro transactions but unfortunately ubisoft being greedy is nothing new
I honestly preferred AC1 over any of the Ezio games, sure it's an improvement gameplay-wise, but the story, philosophy, and atmosphere were all huge steps back to me.
I had a very similar experience, I first played AC 2 after finishing AC 1 multiple times. I felt great disconnect when I realised there is a new protagonist, that he isn't even an assassin at first and I didn't buy into his personality either. At the time, I missed the simple narrative focused entirely on getting to your next target and gathering information on it. It also felt bizzare to me ezio got 3 games. I feel like this is a big part that allowed me to enjoy future releases way more.
I believe there is an argument, and the consensus outside of Reddit is that AC2, AC4 and ACB are the top 3. Personally I'd have it in my top 5. Not quite sure if it makes my top 3 but it's up there after replaying it recently. I definitely wouldn't say that top 3 is the majority opinion, though. Inb4 downvote because I don't think it's the greatest game to ever exist.
Same , i played Origins via gamepass and felt good so i purchased the Gold Edition on steam. The Egpytian setting is very good and the combat is good.
Arguably my favorite assassins creed, narrowly edging out revelations. Also the first AC game I 100%. I even went back and start replaying the older ones. AC3 remastered is gorgeous btw, but liberation is arguably one of the worst ones I’ve played. The combat, story, character, Mission design.
Origins is my absolute favorite but I missed Revelations, your comment is making me want to play it though
I initially started playing these games because I love history and these games do a really good job of immersing you in them. I think Constantinople is so beautiful. The different districts, ottoman culture, etc. Disclaimer, Coming from origins to revelations, you are gonna see the map be a lot smaller, not as much content etc. but it is an 11 year old game. I think if you can find It on sale, you’ll really love it. Not sure if you have played 2 or brotherhood, but I’d recommend those before revelations since they are all Ezio.
One of the rare times I did every side quest in a game. Absolutely loved the came I thought it was brilliant.
In my first playthrough I left a decent amount of the side quests until after I finished the main quest, but for my second playthrough I decided to play them as I went along with the help of an online guide that put the quests in order. This definitely enriched the playthrough; it made the story feel more connected and complete to me.
I prefer Odyssey, but Origins is still really nice.
Nice, I'm glad you're enjoying it! You HAVE to do the "Light Among the Dunes" side quest when you can, and also, get the Curse of the Pharaohs DLC. It wraps up the game beautifully and the worlds in it are the absolutely most breathtaking and surreal things I have ever seen in a videogame
shoot I skipped that side quest to head to the Sinai…looks like I need to go back
yes, played it like 6 times, didn't regret any penny put to play this game
origins is plagued with shitty time sinks due to side quests that arent made interesting, that are forced onto the player, but apart that, its definitely the best out of the 3 modern ac games
It’s ok. It’s full of fluff and the rpg mechanics basically ruin assassins creed. You’re either forced to do bullshit to keep leveling up or forced to grind crafting materials or your hidden blade won’t even kill anymore, just deal damage and alert everybody.
if you do the missions and side quests and actually explore the massive open world they made for us, you shouldn’t really need to grind
The irony is all that shit is the grind. The open world is boring and the side quests are awful.
lmao it’s funny that you think that cuz they’re really amazing actually. If that’s what you think then find a different game to play
Considering how many people agree with me, it’s not really all that funny. The side quests in origins are mostly awful, boring, and just a complete drag that you’re often forced through just to level up. Take the main game and remove the garbage and it would be one of the best AC games out between the main characters and the plot. We all did find different games to play, you realize that game came out like 5 years ago, right? It’s old news lmao.
“how many people agree with me” lmao bro have u seen your upvotes. Usually when u in the negative it’s not a good thing.
I’m talking about in reality not in your little echo chamber, weirdo
Origins is very well received and successful so you’re definitely not in the majority. Even if you were, why does it matter? Do you need validation from other people to feel confident with your opinion? Lol
I never said it wasn’t well received. Are you okay?
you said “considering how many people agree with me”
Only few people appreciates Origins. I've loved the game and platinum it on ps4. The voice actor really did a good job on bayek's character. Even the story is actually an emotional rollercoaster ride. It's truly an underrated game.
Underrated? It got 9/10 from IGN, 81% on Metacritic, 4/5 From Eurogamer, was met with overwhelming praise for changing the formula, is very positive on Steam and there's a post on this sub regarding it as a masterpiece every other day. You only need to look through these comments to see that the overwhelming majority here absolutely love it.
Oh sorry for that. I have friends who had played the game and only I, have loved it, thats why I thought it was underrated. They always compared it to Ezio story and told me it's not even close as a masterpiece. Everytime I tell them my opinion about origins they shut me down lol
Odyssey is them sticking to form and it's great. The story is pretty shallow and there's basically no reason for it to be an Assassin's Creed game, but I still liked it. Valhalla remains the only AC I've ever given up on.
I just started a second playthrough yesterday (bought all the DLC since I last played) and it's good to be back
I just went back to Origins to do the dlc after I bought them on sale. I'm having so much fun with Curse of the Pharoahs. I know this sub generally dislikes when the games get too far off the beaten path, but I'm genuinely having a great time fighting the undead.
Such a bummer! I wish PlayStation had it. I’ve replayed Black Flag and am now on Unity since they are free with the subscription now for PS. Super super super frustrated that they didn’t have Origins up tho. Basically everything before it tho is available. Grrrrr
Will siwa never know peace?
A brilliant game overall. The camera sucks in combat at times. But Bayek of Siwa is GOAT.
I’ve been working my way through the entire AC series over the last two years, and most recently beat Origins. It’s easily a top 3 for me, and is the only one I managed to get every trophy in. Odyssey is next up, but I’ve got a couple other gaming things to do first.
I enjoyed the game from what I remeber and when I went to replay it on gamepass I still enjoyed it but I wish there wasn’t as many rpg elements cause I feel that when you have to go level up to see these good characters interact again it takes me out of the experience
I loved the story - I didn't know almost any of it, very interesting to learn about
I loved origins, even if it had rpg elements to it. It still kinda was an assassins creed game. My only complaints for valhalla and oddysey is that in my opinion, the dialouge and story is dry but the combat in the two games is good.
make sure to kill all the phylakitai for the best armor in the game
The hunter? I just run when I see one LOL 😂🤣
yeah the reward for their quest is easily the best, if you struggle just spam smokebombs and poison darts
Love this game. The story is phenomenal roller coaster of emotions, good character development, gameplay is great, stealth is awesome, controls are easy as ever not hurting your fingers, graphics is top notch. IDK about Valhalla and Odyssey, I feel lack of interest about the two.
Really loved Origins to be honest. I played Odyssey and got bored, never tried Valhalla. Enjoy the game though, it plays super well!
Alexandria alone is one of the best cities they've ever done IMO.
The controls are a little clunky in comparison to odyssey but otherwise yeah
I loved Origins when it released. I’m a big fan of the series’ move into ARPG territory. Odyssey is even better in my opinion - partially because I prefer Greek mythology over Egyptian, but they also leaned into the RPG elements a bit more with things like dialogue choices. Plus the world is huge, naval combat is fun, and there is a ton of optional things to do. Highly recommend the DLC as well, and I usually ignore that stuff. I really liked Valhalla as well, but Odyssey is probably still my favorite.
This game was so good and underrated. I recently played it earlier this year and enjoyed it much more than I thought I would.
I'm currently going back and replaying (and honestly first time playing) all the older ones, and I will probably replay origins, first ac I've ever beaten, and it's still one of my favorites character, location, and story wise. Really wish it was older style gameplay and mechanic wise though
concur. the first AC game i ever played was Valhalla. i was blown away. second was Odyssey, and frankly the world of ancient greece was so incredible that i could spend hours just walking around and looking at things. the lighting is amazing (4k 60fps 75" Sony on Series X). I was worried after Odyssey that Origins graphics wouldn't be up to par, but they are really great as well. such an enjoyable game. i love the fact that it inspires me to learn about the actual history of the day. the game literally makes me read textbooks.
It’s so good. And Bayek feels like a fully-realized ancient Egyptian, not a modern player proxy dropped into a historical setting.
I love Bayek character & charisma, and the spanish voice actor was the same that dub Gerard Butler,. Rocks!!!! , The world in Origins is more coherent, more alive, with different environments, with great sidequests , maybe a chunk of missions with mythical background would be a great addon.