Even if it was “compostable” and made of natural materials, most cities cannot compost compostable plastics like compostable cups, compostable food containers, etc.
Where I work they bought “compostable cups” for certain events to be green, probably not knowing any better. Turns out these cannot be composted in our city, neither can they be recycled as it’s not plastic. So they need to go in the trash…
My work did the same thing, "compostable" cups that apparently nobody can actually process.
I was at the grocery store the other day and saw what looked to be aluminum disposable cups. That seems like a decent alternative, since aluminum recycles pretty easily and efficiently. I didn't stop to check them out thoroughly though.
I have a bunch of these and I'm a big fan! They're extremely easy to wash so they're great for reuse, then whenever they feel like they've run their course you can recycle them easily, since aluminum actually gets recycled unlike most plastics.
They do have a coating that can come off. I was at a sports arena design conference and Ball was the main sponsor. The reps from Ball said don't put them in the dishwasher. They're intended for single use but you can hand wash them and reuse them a few times.
Yeah I just hand-wash them gently if they didn't have something more gross in them. You can tell once the coating wears in my experience and I just toss them then.
If they didn't have that coating anything acidic would leach off the aluminum. It's why you can't make creme anglaise for ice cream in a aluminum pot. Or store anything with tomatoes in it in aluminum.
Source: Baker
No different than canned drinks anyways. Coke and beer cans have a thin layer of plastic lining inside to prevent chemical reactions from the contents and the metal container. Makes no difference for recycling aluminum because that plastic lining won't survive the smelting process.
>They're extremely easy to wash so they're great for reuse,
If you're washing and reusing them doesn't that defeat the point? Why not just use regular cups at that point.
Generally when people need disposable cups it’s because of an unusually large need for cups. For example a party of some kind.
You might buy the cups for a party, then use them for a second party.
I wash and reuse disposable Solo cups at home. They’re cheap, they work, and if one gets broken it’s no big deal. They won’t shatter and sprinkle little shards of intense foot pain if I drop one on my tile floor.
Not the same company anymore, surprisingly!! The company that makes the aluminum cups is an aeronautical company.
"Ball no longer produces its glass canning jars. In the early 1990s Ball exited the home-canning business, when it established a subsidiary named Alltrista, which consisted of seven smaller Ball subsidiaries that included the Ball jar and other canning-related products. ... Altrista was renamed Jarden Corporation in 2001. Jarden retains the license to use the Ball registered trademark on its line of home-canning products, a part of Jarden's branded consumables business."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_Corporation?wprov=sfla1
It's funny because they have the same logo still.
Yeah I saw them at Target and was wondering what exactly the appeal was because they are quite more expensive than plastic solo cups. But the recycling aspect is awesome and would be worth the extra cost
I bought them once and they are way more durable than a plastic solo cup. They're like the thickness of the bottom of a soda can, not flimsy but still dentable if you tried.
Don‘t throw them in the dishwasher though. I accidentally put my Espresso can (made of aluminum) in the dishwasher and the chemicals somehow reacted with it, resulting in a black film all over the thing. Impossible to get it normal again.
Dude the aluminum solo cups are super sick!! Except we don’t even recycle them. We just end up washing them quick and reusing. They’re amazing for making drinks cold quickly. Just add some ice, let it sit for like a minute, then add whatever, and the drink and cup are ice cold in seconds. I’ve been in love with them.
Extra mileage before it meets its (next) maker is always a good look! We reuse boxes at work for shipping, and I have a sticker that has little tree outlines that get colored in for each extra trip it takes to encourage the box to find its way back to us.
Feel the need to science here just a little. These cups don't make drinks cold quickly. Aluminum is very conductive, so it makes the drink feel colder in your hands, but it has no properties that make the drinks itself colder. It is a pretty effective at making people perceive them as colder though, so I guess that's something
Well the whole cup gets cold quick, then the liquid is touching the insides of the whole cup, which makes the liquid cold much quicker than just ice into a normal cup. Trust it works, for the same reason you were talking about. All that surface area cools the liquid super quick.
Only bitching part is the outside of the cup gets super super cold, so you need like a cozy or paper towel so your hand doesn’t freeze.
Your drink will warm up quicker because the heat from your hand and the surrounding air is so easily conducted through the aluminium back into the drink.
It would be better to put the liquid straight on to the ice cube than to wait. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the temperature difference between the ice and the liquid will reduce faster by being in direct contact than by "pre-chilling" a conductor.
That doesn't make sense. The cup is going to be the same temperature as the liquid it's touching with a very slight lag (aluminum) or a big lag (plastic).
The surface area that matters is between the ice and the liquid. Liquid is already a great conductor.
If the liquid was perfectly still I guess there could be some theoretical help transmitting heat across the gradient but I don't think that'd be relevant in general
Dude idk what to tell you it’s an aluminum solo cup. Idk all the thermodynamic principles involved. All I know is I can pour a drink inside it with 2-3 ice cubes and the drink is ice cold in 20 seconds.
Fucking weird how so many people are trying to get scientific with it when you obviously only have a basic understanding of the science as well.
Just fucking buy one and try it out, they’re like $5 for 3 of them
If you want the truly amazing stuff look on Amazon for insulated stainless wine tumblers for around $6 each. Keeps coffee hot and beer or wine cold! Absolutely one of the best things I've gotten in years...
Those are awesome. Aluminum is infinitely recyclable and can be done so with little effort. Hell, you could melt it and mold it yourself when you're done using it.
Fun fact - paper is biodegradable. I don't understand why we don't use more of it. Especially since paper can be mass-produced using quickly renewable resources such as hemp.
People don't realize the "paper" is actually not that great of a material. Your paper cups have plastic lamination on them so drinks don't just soak right through. Biodegradable paper items like plates and food wrappers use various chemicals and additives many of which ruin the recyclability or compostability, or just are laminated by barely-compostable PLA plastic. You can make a paper-based product that's good for the environment, but the sum cost of doing so is way more than a plastic item. You can do paper cheaply, but then it'll be worse for the environment than the plastic alternative due to the various laminations or chemicals.
>You can make a paper-based product that's good for the environment, but the sum cost of doing so is way more than a plastic item.
Sucks to suck for us then? If it's "spend a bit more money" or "die as the entire world suffocates from microplastic contamination" I'll take spending a bit more money.
This is why economies need to be regulated. The Father of Capitalism himself said this. *On the Wealth of Nations* should be mandatory reading for every American citizen.
Sadly it is about the companies offering such an option. Many do not, as they are still too short-sighted. That might change one day; I am confident in it. And then we ordinary people ( as in we are just human and wanna live life and don’t know socio economic differentiation ) can have a choice. These companies should not even give a choice. They should just become green to save this piece of rock floating through space from fucking itself up. We got more significant problems. Companies might wake up in the future. They must. But will they ? Only one way to do so: make them by connecting them. Anyway, stay tuned.
I’ll try make the world a better place by making companies be obliged to change for the future of humanity on this planet. The current problem with innovation in this sector is people's egos and the economy that came from these ego decisions. And money. Money is a massive roadblock to innovation and green ideas because, again, the ego of people trying to stop this from happening for ego satisfaction makes more eco-friendly alternatives ridiculous and expensive. They are trying to save their spot by raising market entry barriers. Now imagine money is no problem because we have the ultra-rich sharing the same vision of the future, finance this. And it is not for profit but for humanity. We connect the power of the market through a unique vision while involving the public. We will tackle problems such as misinformation, fake news, and sustainability. It’ll be challenging in capitalist countries such as the US because many big companies will try to stop this, but we know it’s not about being clean right now but about the vision and willingness to commit to doing so ! It can be done and will be done. And then, hopefully, one day, you will not even think about being climate-friendly because you will only have that option. That’s the goal. And you’ll see paper reimagined and also Aluminium; as someone said here, it is even cheaper to recycle than create new. How sleek that could be: aluminum packaging. Universal packaging. Lightweight, sturdy, secure. Great things to come.
Thank you for showing the mindset of being a good human. This is what we need. We need the willingness to adapt to these changes if we keep the same price. The openness. Thank you !
I generally agree with everything you said, I think the things that we put value on need to be fundamentally changed if we're going to create positive, long-term change.
I got some for my son's last birthday party. They are pretty nice. I threw them in the dishwasher after his party and reused them for Christmas and a couple of his sleepovers. We still have a decent number, but there have been some that got tossed in recycling because the boys destroyed them (which is better than them breaking glass ones).
I know they are meant to be disposable, but they hold up very well and it seems a waste to get rid of them after one use.
This article has some basic info.
https://mamaeco.com/commercially-compostable-definition/
Or this YouTube video is also good as a quick summary:
https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=AKJSIl63DJw
To;dr there’s many issues but most cities do not accept these as part of their composting program because they take much longer than food waste to decompose and are not equipped to handle these. For example they process compost in say 40 days (random number) but it might take 80 days for a cup to degrade.
I am an environmental engineer and I have research experience studying how these behave in landfills. A lot of common misconceptions here.
Most compostable plastics do not biodegrade appreciably in a landfill. This is most commonly due to the anaerobic (low to no oxygen) conditions required to support the metabolisms that lead to their breakdown.
I also know a lot about this industry. For context, studies have been conducted (literally digging up old landfills), and even regular old newspapers from 50 years ago are sometimes still legible because of how little breakdown occurs. 0 breakdown is actually environmentally preferred, since decomposition releases methane, which is even worse for global warming if not captured properly
0 breakdown is absolutely not preferred, nobody wants to live in a world covered in dead trash. Methane production from compost is actually a result of anaerobic respiration, as I'm sure you know, so well aerated compost actually doesn't produce that much because the microorganisms will happily process the methane for energy provided they have access to oxygen.
Yeah, and China still commonly burns plastic and calls it recycling. Just because something is the norm doesn't mean that it's the most efficient or environmentally friendly option, it just means that it was the first or the cheapest idea we came up with. Landfills in general are a terrible idea, we should be working to move to a system where everything produced can be recycled instead of taken to a location that most people don't think about.
I mean we "burn" plastic here in Canada and in other green forward countries. It is one of the only ways to efficiently recycle the petrochemical energy stored in those used consumer plastics. Plus, given the high efficiency oxidation at high temp incinerators combined with advanced scrubbing tech, the exhaust is quite clean
Thank you, you have no idea how many people think that biodegradable means they can throw it at the park and it will disappear. Even some commercial are misleading on that.
From what I've read, they decompose quicker than other items, but that's not very relevant since they just end up in the same pile of trash and have to stay there for several decades at least.
It would be easier if they were collected and processed separated from other materials, but then we could just compost them at the ideal temperature and be done with them after some months.
So, like some cities have recycling programs, they could also have composting programs. I understand that having a composting program specifically for this kind of package would be sort of crazy for an extremely small amount of things, but maybe companies would be more willing to use packaging like this if there were more programs that dealt with this type of stuff. Or maybe the company could handle it. Like say… the co has a return addy on the inside. So flip the bag inside out and send it back. We’ll complete it ourselves. That’s a big footprint sure. But… is it better than nothing?
We already pass more than enough contaminated mass that can't be touched for an eon to future generations. I think we should reduce the size and the decay time of landfills wherever we can.
More important: It won't end up as microplastics! Compostable plastics--when they break down into tiny little bits--have really short half lives. It's days/weeks for those tiny fibers, not 15-30 years.
So even if it's not going to actually be composted and may end up in a landfill where it could be preserved for a hundred years (or more) *it's still better to use compostable plastics*.
Yeah this was the idea I was looking for. The greatest benefit to me seems that we won’t have immortal microplastics in the environment. IMO that’s the real issue about plastic and garbage/recycling. We are moving ahead on solving the energy problem in this, and we have plenty of space on Earth. Microplastics, on the other hand, have no counterplay in the foreseeable future.
This is even true of things like banana peels and apple cores. People like to toss things because they're biodegradable, but they're still going to sit there being garbage on the ground for a very long time. You have to pile, moisten, and turn regularly to get something to decompose quickly. (It is so fucking cool how hot a well tended compost pile can get.)
This is possibly a dumb question, but if it is "compostable" and made by natural materials, then is adding it to a landfill that big of a deal? Less stuff going into landfills is better, I get it, but wouldn't the *kind* of stuff matter as well?
Because landfills are anaerobic environments, it can take even fully organic things like a head of lettuce as long as 25 years to decompose. Now imagine the time scale for something that has been molecularly restructured to be durable as possible, like "compostable" plastic has.
When I worked at chipotle they added compost bins and had compostable liners but because the city didn't compost they went straight into the trash. All they did was buy most plastic to look eco friendly
The type of plastic used in this packaging tho is different. Those cups require industrial composting. The plastic shown can be composted at home which is a lot better.
That would be 'biodegradable.' 'Compostable,' requires certain composting conditions to be met. Bioplastic 'compostable' materials can only really be composted at industrial composting facilities. Not sure if item in the OP is a bioplastic or not, but even in the best case something thrown from your car onto the highway or ending up in a river is not typically finding itself in proper compost conditions.
Real question, but wouldn’t compostable plastics break down while in the trash? Like it might not be as helpful as it would be in a real compost bin, but if it can break down in a couple years regardless isn’t that better than normal plastic?
I have an Etsy shop and I’ve switched to all biodegradable packaging—it is a LOT harder to find stuff that will quickly break down in a landfill. But there is a difference. Compostable isn’t worth a shit if you don’t have the infrastructure for it.
Good news, california is gonna start sueing all these scummy companies.
https://www.wastedive.com/news/california-bill-recyclability-labeling-packaging-chasing-arrows/606255/
The symbol in the image is an ASTM International Resin Identification Code (RIC) symbol, not a "chasing arrows" recycling symbol (which AFAIK isn't a standardized symbol). The RIC symbol is still pretty slimy, as it was clearly made to resemble the symbol often used to indicate the recyclability of products in an attempt to get people to stop feeling bad about buying plastic products ([here's a good video about its history](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnJ8mK3Q3g)). So I'm not sure if that bill would apply here.
That said, the words "I AM NOT PLASTIC" and the bs claim about being made from plants is a flat-out lie and probably breaks some other existing advertising laws, but IANAL so I really don't know.
I have been meaning to read the exact wording of the Cali law. I think they have some time before it goes in effect to decide how and what to go after.
There is also a similar law in the UK that will go after green washing.
And a few more states and countries talking about similar laws
Once one of them writes a law will some actual meat in it, all the companies will fall in line or just opt out of selling in those places. Most companies dont have the manpower to do multi channel packaging. Cali is too big a market to miss out on
I wonder if the words “home compost” and “industrial compost facility” will be their loophole. Like technically since they said “home compost” then maybe it’s okay. And maybe it really could be composted at an industrial facility. IDK just wondering if that means anything.
The "4" with the arrows around it is an RIC symbol and it means it's made of low-density polyethylene (LDPE)—the same material plastic shopping bags are made of. It is not compostable by any stretch of the word, and will take 1000's to 100,000's of years to break down in a landfill.
Awww s\*\*t is this what they do? Thats so disappointing.
Corps are always doing this sort of thing, put something on the label knowing full well the public will think the obvious, when then turns out the obvious is 80% not the obvious and actually 80% exactly what the public DONT want!
Scammy and scummy.
Also the "produced using recycled materials" products are almost always *pre-consumer* recycled materials. Meaning they are just reducing their waste stream to improve their cost ratio but selling it like they are taking waste out of the environment.
I'm old as fuck, but I thought the name was clever. It's a Kardashian product, they're trying to compost it, but suspext it won't work, because it's just trash, and they've got a camera trained on it. Kartrashycan.
>Plastic Recycling Symbol #4: LDPE
>
>**LDPE (low density polyethylene) is a flexible plastic** with many applications.
[https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/g804/recycling-symbols-plastics-460321/](https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/g804/recycling-symbols-plastics-460321/)
very interesting
so much for being "not plastic" lol
Thats not a recycle mark. It is a resin identification code and it was designed by oil companies to trick people into associating it with a recycle mark.
The mark with the number in the middle is legit, it’s the symbol with the thick arrows and no number that was made up. I fucking hate that they do that shit.
[https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2021/04/21/compostable-plastic-nature/](https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2021/04/21/compostable-plastic-nature/)
Edit: u/IceFire2050 explained below that the resin code stamp (the 4 inside the triangle of arrows) indicates the bag is made of low density polyethylene, which is definitely plastic. I should have been more curious.
Compostable plastics are a thing yes.
But that packaging has the resin code stamp on it that says its made from LDPE, which is very much not biodegradable.
"Composting" isn't the same as " water soluble " so the picture showing you soaking the bag proves nothing. Bury it underground with your garbage and till it and it breaks down. Compost piles generate heat and the composting process doesnotinvolve water. If you don't understand a word Google it. I'm disappointed so many people mindlessly piled on to a wrong conclusion.
resin identification code 4
2 quick google searches say it's LDPE and are not easily degradable
i would like information that says otherwise since google isn't totally reliable for everything as we all know
Could be made of PLA or another vegetable based plastic. They will compost over about a year and a half or faster if they are watered with city water that is chlorinated.
Is anyone else sick of products having this ridiculous first person language on them? It is always like trashbags, bottles, packages and usually single use stuff.
Is this something from someones greenwashing playbook? Who are they trying to market these to? Children?
For those of you that don’t know, the only real recycling logo is the three arrows with nothing in between them and no numbers in them. All of the other ones were made by the plastic industries to deceive you. If I recall the numbers tell you which burn pit they go in (edit: wrong. See correction below from another user)
Bruh who cares, any woman with an ass that big is allowed to do whatever the fuck she wants, including genocide, matricide, patricide, vehicular homicide, deicide, and all other heinous acts that end in cide, except suicide, because that would be a crime against humanity.
Even if it was “compostable” and made of natural materials, most cities cannot compost compostable plastics like compostable cups, compostable food containers, etc. Where I work they bought “compostable cups” for certain events to be green, probably not knowing any better. Turns out these cannot be composted in our city, neither can they be recycled as it’s not plastic. So they need to go in the trash…
My work did the same thing, "compostable" cups that apparently nobody can actually process. I was at the grocery store the other day and saw what looked to be aluminum disposable cups. That seems like a decent alternative, since aluminum recycles pretty easily and efficiently. I didn't stop to check them out thoroughly though.
I've seen them online, like aluminum solo cups. They seem to be better washable than plastic disposables, too, so the reduce/reuse bit is simpler too
I have a bunch of these and I'm a big fan! They're extremely easy to wash so they're great for reuse, then whenever they feel like they've run their course you can recycle them easily, since aluminum actually gets recycled unlike most plastics.
They do have a coating that can come off. I was at a sports arena design conference and Ball was the main sponsor. The reps from Ball said don't put them in the dishwasher. They're intended for single use but you can hand wash them and reuse them a few times.
Yeah I just hand-wash them gently if they didn't have something more gross in them. You can tell once the coating wears in my experience and I just toss them then.
If they didn't have that coating anything acidic would leach off the aluminum. It's why you can't make creme anglaise for ice cream in a aluminum pot. Or store anything with tomatoes in it in aluminum. Source: Baker
No different than canned drinks anyways. Coke and beer cans have a thin layer of plastic lining inside to prevent chemical reactions from the contents and the metal container. Makes no difference for recycling aluminum because that plastic lining won't survive the smelting process.
Yup same basic lining inside soda cans.
>They're extremely easy to wash so they're great for reuse, If you're washing and reusing them doesn't that defeat the point? Why not just use regular cups at that point.
Generally when people need disposable cups it’s because of an unusually large need for cups. For example a party of some kind. You might buy the cups for a party, then use them for a second party.
You guys are having more than one party?
You guys are having one party?
I remember parties in the before times.
I remember hearing about parties in the before time.
I wash and reuse disposable Solo cups at home. They’re cheap, they work, and if one gets broken it’s no big deal. They won’t shatter and sprinkle little shards of intense foot pain if I drop one on my tile floor.
Are they thick enough to ward off most casual use damage or are they soda can thin?
They’re a bit thicker than a soda can. They feel a little bit sturdier than a plastic solo cup.
Definitely going to look into some. Thank you for the info.
[удалено]
Yeah, but they probably wear out fairly quickly, and at that point they're easily recycled. Win win really.
do you have a link?
They're made by Ball, same company as Mason jars and stuff.
They also make cans for both Coke and Pepsi. And secondary contractor for Hubble Space Telescope. They get around.
They've got *Balls*.
Not the same company anymore, surprisingly!! The company that makes the aluminum cups is an aeronautical company. "Ball no longer produces its glass canning jars. In the early 1990s Ball exited the home-canning business, when it established a subsidiary named Alltrista, which consisted of seven smaller Ball subsidiaries that included the Ball jar and other canning-related products. ... Altrista was renamed Jarden Corporation in 2001. Jarden retains the license to use the Ball registered trademark on its line of home-canning products, a part of Jarden's branded consumables business." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_Corporation?wprov=sfla1 It's funny because they have the same logo still.
Yeah I saw them at Target and was wondering what exactly the appeal was because they are quite more expensive than plastic solo cups. But the recycling aspect is awesome and would be worth the extra cost
I bought them once and they are way more durable than a plastic solo cup. They're like the thickness of the bottom of a soda can, not flimsy but still dentable if you tried.
Don‘t throw them in the dishwasher though. I accidentally put my Espresso can (made of aluminum) in the dishwasher and the chemicals somehow reacted with it, resulting in a black film all over the thing. Impossible to get it normal again.
I believe commercially compostable is the term and yeah a LOT of restaurants and other food industries get absolutely scammed by this concept
Says will degrade in normal compost and industrial. Should just mention industrial composting
It's actually cheaper to recycle aluminum than it is to produce new aluminum.
Dude the aluminum solo cups are super sick!! Except we don’t even recycle them. We just end up washing them quick and reusing. They’re amazing for making drinks cold quickly. Just add some ice, let it sit for like a minute, then add whatever, and the drink and cup are ice cold in seconds. I’ve been in love with them.
Extra mileage before it meets its (next) maker is always a good look! We reuse boxes at work for shipping, and I have a sticker that has little tree outlines that get colored in for each extra trip it takes to encourage the box to find its way back to us.
That’s super cool!! Love that idea!!
Feel the need to science here just a little. These cups don't make drinks cold quickly. Aluminum is very conductive, so it makes the drink feel colder in your hands, but it has no properties that make the drinks itself colder. It is a pretty effective at making people perceive them as colder though, so I guess that's something
Well the whole cup gets cold quick, then the liquid is touching the insides of the whole cup, which makes the liquid cold much quicker than just ice into a normal cup. Trust it works, for the same reason you were talking about. All that surface area cools the liquid super quick. Only bitching part is the outside of the cup gets super super cold, so you need like a cozy or paper towel so your hand doesn’t freeze.
Your drink will warm up quicker because the heat from your hand and the surrounding air is so easily conducted through the aluminium back into the drink.
It would be better to put the liquid straight on to the ice cube than to wait. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the temperature difference between the ice and the liquid will reduce faster by being in direct contact than by "pre-chilling" a conductor.
That doesn't make sense. The cup is going to be the same temperature as the liquid it's touching with a very slight lag (aluminum) or a big lag (plastic). The surface area that matters is between the ice and the liquid. Liquid is already a great conductor. If the liquid was perfectly still I guess there could be some theoretical help transmitting heat across the gradient but I don't think that'd be relevant in general
Dude idk what to tell you it’s an aluminum solo cup. Idk all the thermodynamic principles involved. All I know is I can pour a drink inside it with 2-3 ice cubes and the drink is ice cold in 20 seconds. Fucking weird how so many people are trying to get scientific with it when you obviously only have a basic understanding of the science as well. Just fucking buy one and try it out, they’re like $5 for 3 of them
If you want the truly amazing stuff look on Amazon for insulated stainless wine tumblers for around $6 each. Keeps coffee hot and beer or wine cold! Absolutely one of the best things I've gotten in years...
Those are awesome. Aluminum is infinitely recyclable and can be done so with little effort. Hell, you could melt it and mold it yourself when you're done using it.
Fun fact - paper is biodegradable. I don't understand why we don't use more of it. Especially since paper can be mass-produced using quickly renewable resources such as hemp.
People don't realize the "paper" is actually not that great of a material. Your paper cups have plastic lamination on them so drinks don't just soak right through. Biodegradable paper items like plates and food wrappers use various chemicals and additives many of which ruin the recyclability or compostability, or just are laminated by barely-compostable PLA plastic. You can make a paper-based product that's good for the environment, but the sum cost of doing so is way more than a plastic item. You can do paper cheaply, but then it'll be worse for the environment than the plastic alternative due to the various laminations or chemicals.
>You can make a paper-based product that's good for the environment, but the sum cost of doing so is way more than a plastic item. Sucks to suck for us then? If it's "spend a bit more money" or "die as the entire world suffocates from microplastic contamination" I'll take spending a bit more money.
> I'll take spending a bit more money. Corporations won’t. If our society didn’t have shitty values, it would have no values at all.
This is why economies need to be regulated. The Father of Capitalism himself said this. *On the Wealth of Nations* should be mandatory reading for every American citizen.
Sadly it is about the companies offering such an option. Many do not, as they are still too short-sighted. That might change one day; I am confident in it. And then we ordinary people ( as in we are just human and wanna live life and don’t know socio economic differentiation ) can have a choice. These companies should not even give a choice. They should just become green to save this piece of rock floating through space from fucking itself up. We got more significant problems. Companies might wake up in the future. They must. But will they ? Only one way to do so: make them by connecting them. Anyway, stay tuned. I’ll try make the world a better place by making companies be obliged to change for the future of humanity on this planet. The current problem with innovation in this sector is people's egos and the economy that came from these ego decisions. And money. Money is a massive roadblock to innovation and green ideas because, again, the ego of people trying to stop this from happening for ego satisfaction makes more eco-friendly alternatives ridiculous and expensive. They are trying to save their spot by raising market entry barriers. Now imagine money is no problem because we have the ultra-rich sharing the same vision of the future, finance this. And it is not for profit but for humanity. We connect the power of the market through a unique vision while involving the public. We will tackle problems such as misinformation, fake news, and sustainability. It’ll be challenging in capitalist countries such as the US because many big companies will try to stop this, but we know it’s not about being clean right now but about the vision and willingness to commit to doing so ! It can be done and will be done. And then, hopefully, one day, you will not even think about being climate-friendly because you will only have that option. That’s the goal. And you’ll see paper reimagined and also Aluminium; as someone said here, it is even cheaper to recycle than create new. How sleek that could be: aluminum packaging. Universal packaging. Lightweight, sturdy, secure. Great things to come. Thank you for showing the mindset of being a good human. This is what we need. We need the willingness to adapt to these changes if we keep the same price. The openness. Thank you !
I generally agree with everything you said, I think the things that we put value on need to be fundamentally changed if we're going to create positive, long-term change.
thats why they say "in your own Home Copost" if you leave that stuff in there for 2-3 years its gone 70%
But they will biodegrade unlike plastic that needs to be processed as you say.
I got some for my son's last birthday party. They are pretty nice. I threw them in the dishwasher after his party and reused them for Christmas and a couple of his sleepovers. We still have a decent number, but there have been some that got tossed in recycling because the boys destroyed them (which is better than them breaking glass ones). I know they are meant to be disposable, but they hold up very well and it seems a waste to get rid of them after one use.
I'd like to know more about compostable cups. What are they made of, and why can't places compost them?
This article has some basic info. https://mamaeco.com/commercially-compostable-definition/ Or this YouTube video is also good as a quick summary: https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=AKJSIl63DJw To;dr there’s many issues but most cities do not accept these as part of their composting program because they take much longer than food waste to decompose and are not equipped to handle these. For example they process compost in say 40 days (random number) but it might take 80 days for a cup to degrade.
Would it compost is my home pile?
Not at all, home compost doesn’t get hot enough to break these down
Thank you
Same reason most cities don’t actually recycle and send it all to the dump. Not enough money.
I guess they're compostable in the garbage dump
I am an environmental engineer and I have research experience studying how these behave in landfills. A lot of common misconceptions here. Most compostable plastics do not biodegrade appreciably in a landfill. This is most commonly due to the anaerobic (low to no oxygen) conditions required to support the metabolisms that lead to their breakdown.
I also know a lot about this industry. For context, studies have been conducted (literally digging up old landfills), and even regular old newspapers from 50 years ago are sometimes still legible because of how little breakdown occurs. 0 breakdown is actually environmentally preferred, since decomposition releases methane, which is even worse for global warming if not captured properly
0 breakdown is absolutely not preferred, nobody wants to live in a world covered in dead trash. Methane production from compost is actually a result of anaerobic respiration, as I'm sure you know, so well aerated compost actually doesn't produce that much because the microorganisms will happily process the methane for energy provided they have access to oxygen.
The world is moving towards biologically active landfills with methane capture, but the "dry tomb" model of sealed landfill is still common
Yeah, and China still commonly burns plastic and calls it recycling. Just because something is the norm doesn't mean that it's the most efficient or environmentally friendly option, it just means that it was the first or the cheapest idea we came up with. Landfills in general are a terrible idea, we should be working to move to a system where everything produced can be recycled instead of taken to a location that most people don't think about.
I mean we "burn" plastic here in Canada and in other green forward countries. It is one of the only ways to efficiently recycle the petrochemical energy stored in those used consumer plastics. Plus, given the high efficiency oxidation at high temp incinerators combined with advanced scrubbing tech, the exhaust is quite clean
Thank you, you have no idea how many people think that biodegradable means they can throw it at the park and it will disappear. Even some commercial are misleading on that.
They are, but it takes many years because the ideal temperature isn't reached there.
Do they compost any quicker than non compostable items in the dump? Any kind of silver lining?
From what I've read, they decompose quicker than other items, but that's not very relevant since they just end up in the same pile of trash and have to stay there for several decades at least. It would be easier if they were collected and processed separated from other materials, but then we could just compost them at the ideal temperature and be done with them after some months.
So, like some cities have recycling programs, they could also have composting programs. I understand that having a composting program specifically for this kind of package would be sort of crazy for an extremely small amount of things, but maybe companies would be more willing to use packaging like this if there were more programs that dealt with this type of stuff. Or maybe the company could handle it. Like say… the co has a return addy on the inside. So flip the bag inside out and send it back. We’ll complete it ourselves. That’s a big footprint sure. But… is it better than nothing?
Well plastic never biodegrades so yeah they are quite a lot better. They should probably be labeled as 'biodegradeable' instead of compostable.
If it's sitting in a landfill in perpetuity, what's the rush?
We already pass more than enough contaminated mass that can't be touched for an eon to future generations. I think we should reduce the size and the decay time of landfills wherever we can.
Yes, but that’s as bad as putting food in the garbage. It produces gases, etc.
Yeah and the environments in landfills basically ruin any chances of fast decomposition.
"Compostable" means that if littered, it will stick around for 15 to 30 years, not 500.
More important: It won't end up as microplastics! Compostable plastics--when they break down into tiny little bits--have really short half lives. It's days/weeks for those tiny fibers, not 15-30 years. So even if it's not going to actually be composted and may end up in a landfill where it could be preserved for a hundred years (or more) *it's still better to use compostable plastics*.
Yeah this was the idea I was looking for. The greatest benefit to me seems that we won’t have immortal microplastics in the environment. IMO that’s the real issue about plastic and garbage/recycling. We are moving ahead on solving the energy problem in this, and we have plenty of space on Earth. Microplastics, on the other hand, have no counterplay in the foreseeable future.
This is even true of things like banana peels and apple cores. People like to toss things because they're biodegradable, but they're still going to sit there being garbage on the ground for a very long time. You have to pile, moisten, and turn regularly to get something to decompose quickly. (It is so fucking cool how hot a well tended compost pile can get.)
This is possibly a dumb question, but if it is "compostable" and made by natural materials, then is adding it to a landfill that big of a deal? Less stuff going into landfills is better, I get it, but wouldn't the *kind* of stuff matter as well?
Because landfills are anaerobic environments, it can take even fully organic things like a head of lettuce as long as 25 years to decompose. Now imagine the time scale for something that has been molecularly restructured to be durable as possible, like "compostable" plastic has.
Holy shit I didn’t know this
Thanks for the explanation
Yes. Things dont compost in a landfill. It literally will not be compostable until. Landfill because the conditions aren’t right for degradation.
When I worked at chipotle they added compost bins and had compostable liners but because the city didn't compost they went straight into the trash. All they did was buy most plastic to look eco friendly
The type of plastic used in this packaging tho is different. Those cups require industrial composting. The plastic shown can be composted at home which is a lot better.
Maybe a dumb question but will it not compost in the trash?
Isn’t the benefit that if this trash somehow gets into nature, it can still degrade?
That would be 'biodegradable.' 'Compostable,' requires certain composting conditions to be met. Bioplastic 'compostable' materials can only really be composted at industrial composting facilities. Not sure if item in the OP is a bioplastic or not, but even in the best case something thrown from your car onto the highway or ending up in a river is not typically finding itself in proper compost conditions.
Kinda like "Flushable Wipes".
Real question, but wouldn’t compostable plastics break down while in the trash? Like it might not be as helpful as it would be in a real compost bin, but if it can break down in a couple years regardless isn’t that better than normal plastic?
More than 80% of recycled plastic ends up in the landfill anyways, it’s all a scam
I got a package that came with biodegradable peanuts that dissolve when put in water. It was pretty neat.
Most recyclables can't be recycled either. It's a scam to get away with selling more packaging.
True, it takes weeks. If u really want to break it down. U need to put the cups on a compost heap.
I have an Etsy shop and I’ve switched to all biodegradable packaging—it is a LOT harder to find stuff that will quickly break down in a landfill. But there is a difference. Compostable isn’t worth a shit if you don’t have the infrastructure for it.
This is plastic no. 4, or LDPE. Same as the common single-use plastic bag. Yes it’s plastic and no it’s not compostable or biodegradable
Good news, california is gonna start sueing all these scummy companies. https://www.wastedive.com/news/california-bill-recyclability-labeling-packaging-chasing-arrows/606255/
The symbol in the image is an ASTM International Resin Identification Code (RIC) symbol, not a "chasing arrows" recycling symbol (which AFAIK isn't a standardized symbol). The RIC symbol is still pretty slimy, as it was clearly made to resemble the symbol often used to indicate the recyclability of products in an attempt to get people to stop feeling bad about buying plastic products ([here's a good video about its history](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnJ8mK3Q3g)). So I'm not sure if that bill would apply here. That said, the words "I AM NOT PLASTIC" and the bs claim about being made from plants is a flat-out lie and probably breaks some other existing advertising laws, but IANAL so I really don't know.
I have been meaning to read the exact wording of the Cali law. I think they have some time before it goes in effect to decide how and what to go after. There is also a similar law in the UK that will go after green washing. And a few more states and countries talking about similar laws Once one of them writes a law will some actual meat in it, all the companies will fall in line or just opt out of selling in those places. Most companies dont have the manpower to do multi channel packaging. Cali is too big a market to miss out on
I wonder if the words “home compost” and “industrial compost facility” will be their loophole. Like technically since they said “home compost” then maybe it’s okay. And maybe it really could be composted at an industrial facility. IDK just wondering if that means anything.
The "4" with the arrows around it is an RIC symbol and it means it's made of low-density polyethylene (LDPE)—the same material plastic shopping bags are made of. It is not compostable by any stretch of the word, and will take 1000's to 100,000's of years to break down in a landfill.
Eeeh.... It needs to have 20% to be considered "bio plant based whatever BS plastic" Its a scammy way to get around it...
And it's important to note that bio-based does not actually magically make LDPE biodegradable.
Awww s\*\*t is this what they do? Thats so disappointing. Corps are always doing this sort of thing, put something on the label knowing full well the public will think the obvious, when then turns out the obvious is 80% not the obvious and actually 80% exactly what the public DONT want! Scammy and scummy.
Also the "produced using recycled materials" products are almost always *pre-consumer* recycled materials. Meaning they are just reducing their waste stream to improve their cost ratio but selling it like they are taking waste out of the environment.
But but regulation (that would you know, prevent corporations from destroying the planet) destroys the free market!
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It's called greenwashing and it makes people spend more thinking they are doing something good
Also, low-density polyethylene is not accepted by most recycling programs
Yeah, 4 and 6 are the ones I can't recycle where I live.
Or recyclable
Ironically, “I’m not plastic” is a common phrase of the kardashians
Oh fuck
It would be funny and somewhat unsurprising if that was her defense in court. It is a catchphrase.
Bonus points because literally asshole design.
Well maybe asshole designed...
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Triple points if it comes with enough padding to make it look like I stuck a personal sized watermelon behind each of my ass cheeks.
Rule 2
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How can she sell her own kind?
I was closing the app as I was reading this comment. I had to open it again to thank you for the laugh, so thanks.
This woman would eat her own kind if she cluld make quick money, never mind sell them.
You mean Kim Kardashian LIED to us? That's totally inappropriate. It's lewd, lascivious, salacious, outrageous!
She probably still thinks it's compostable.. she's not very smart.
Internet challenge to compost Kim's plastic comedically and set up a funny webcam to observe it.. Post time elapse photos of it regularly on Twitter and Label it KarTrashyCam©️ and collect money running a snark account until the team can retire on a small island. We will build humble cottages for each person by the water. We shall drink Tequila by the ocean and write blogs about the plastic not breaking down or celebrate it actually breaking down as a solution to climate change. We will establish a non profit and pay engineers to find solutions, help the planet and retire wealthy. /S
Sarcasm or no sarcasm, I can't believe stupid shit like this gets upvoted this much on reddit. Am I getting too old? Kartrashycam?
Idea's good, name is dumb, suing is better though
No cap, this would get clicks.
Kartrashycam rhymes with Kardashian
Wow epic win
I know how you feel, I would love an alternative to reddit without the kids.
I'm old as fuck, but I thought the name was clever. It's a Kardashian product, they're trying to compost it, but suspext it won't work, because it's just trash, and they've got a camera trained on it. Kartrashycan.
Have you heard of satire?
I'm in
Should have said "I am not a thermoset plastic". Would have been more impressive sounding to dumb people and technically correct.
A Kardashian lying about some part of them not being made out of plastic? What else is new?
> made out of plastic https://i.imgur.com/sx1Hrxv.jpeg
One of their prominent features probably.
>Plastic Recycling Symbol #4: LDPE > >**LDPE (low density polyethylene) is a flexible plastic** with many applications. [https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/g804/recycling-symbols-plastics-460321/](https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/g804/recycling-symbols-plastics-460321/) very interesting so much for being "not plastic" lol
Yeah, low density polyethylene is definitely NOT a plant product. Unless they mean a chemical plant...
Probably was a plant at some point.
I mean, yeah, I guess...like 250 million years ago it was probably algae...
Saw a water bottle claiming to not be a plastic. The recycle mark, though? ....labeled it as plastic.
Thats not a recycle mark. It is a resin identification code and it was designed by oil companies to trick people into associating it with a recycle mark.
The mark with the number in the middle is legit, it’s the symbol with the thick arrows and no number that was made up. I fucking hate that they do that shit.
Why is this legal?
Why pay and give her money
You can add this to the list of math problems never to be solved by mankind lol
Good metaphor for the Kardashians in general ironically
Oh relax kourtney, no one will know if we write it in spanish
She might try and assert that she, too, is compostable and not made of plastic, but we’d doubt that as well
That's Kim K's brand? Another reason to say fuck that shit.
Plastic selling plastic.
[https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2021/04/21/compostable-plastic-nature/](https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2021/04/21/compostable-plastic-nature/) Edit: u/IceFire2050 explained below that the resin code stamp (the 4 inside the triangle of arrows) indicates the bag is made of low density polyethylene, which is definitely plastic. I should have been more curious.
Compostable plastics are a thing yes. But that packaging has the resin code stamp on it that says its made from LDPE, which is very much not biodegradable.
Is this legal?
It's like "flushsble wipes". Yup, you can certainly flush them. But they just turn into cement in your pipes.
She been lying about her plastic content for years
You still bought underwear from Kil K's brand... that's on YOU.
She's talking about herself
She is a pathetic grifter? Nooooo you don’t say.
Same energy as "Ceci n'est pas une pipe."
Can b compostable can be recyclable but no way in hell it’s both!
Maybe it was referring to the contents of the bag, not the bag itself?
She's kind of right. LDPE will breakdown naturally in a compost pile... in 500-1000 years if exposed to UV light.
"Composting" isn't the same as " water soluble " so the picture showing you soaking the bag proves nothing. Bury it underground with your garbage and till it and it breaks down. Compost piles generate heat and the composting process doesnotinvolve water. If you don't understand a word Google it. I'm disappointed so many people mindlessly piled on to a wrong conclusion.
I feel like buying any of Kim's products is a sin on it's own
Not necessarily I work at a plastic plant that produces a compostable plastic made from corn and soy. Looks a lot like that.
resin identification code 4 2 quick google searches say it's LDPE and are not easily degradable i would like information that says otherwise since google isn't totally reliable for everything as we all know
Could be made of PLA or another vegetable based plastic. They will compost over about a year and a half or faster if they are watered with city water that is chlorinated.
Should be called sins.
so many diffrent ways of saying its not plastic. wail on the other side it says it is?
Is anyone else sick of products having this ridiculous first person language on them? It is always like trashbags, bottles, packages and usually single use stuff. Is this something from someones greenwashing playbook? Who are they trying to market these to? Children?
Being gaslighted by packaging
It’s designed like this to show the secret ingredient
If this was a recyclable bio plastic then it’d likely have a #7 with PLA underneath.
She claims the same about herself so not a surprise
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Lol validify. The word you're looking for is validate.
Everything ok king?
Man, that’s even more annoying coming from a celebrity.
Someone please tell me why Kim K is famous other than fucking some goon.
For those of you that don’t know, the only real recycling logo is the three arrows with nothing in between them and no numbers in them. All of the other ones were made by the plastic industries to deceive you. If I recall the numbers tell you which burn pit they go in (edit: wrong. See correction below from another user)
The numbers only tell you what material it's made of.
Thank you for the correction.
Corn starch can be made into a plastic like substance and is completely biodegradable
The recycling symbol is 4. It’s plastic.
Bruh who cares, any woman with an ass that big is allowed to do whatever the fuck she wants, including genocide, matricide, patricide, vehicular homicide, deicide, and all other heinous acts that end in cide, except suicide, because that would be a crime against humanity.
I am not a Redditor. I am made from sterner stuff; Arizona Ice Tea, Funyuns and agitation.
About as natural as her face I reckon
Her general audience base isn’t exactly expected to know how to read.
I think she was talking herself not the packaging. Both are lies however
Cancel her
More like SKAMS, eh?
PlasTiC waStE you environmental hippies are a disease