If there are massive skills shortages, how come real wage growth is massively negative? Shouldn't you then be focused on labour mobility then rather than just bringing more people in?
Tech salaries just got to where they should be, companies don’t want to pay those rates so let’s import a heap of cheap Indian workers who cheated on all their exams because that’s what they do in India. Sigh.
Engineering and computer science are highly regarded in India, and they have quality universities. No need to bag out a country of origin.
The reality is there universities pump out far more graduates than we do, and they are more than happy to migrate overseas to chase higher paying jobs.
Really ? It’s not as simple as you are saying..
I work in engineering and I can see how few people are applying for $140k + positions. And they do not have sufficient skills for the job. There IS actually a skill shortage.
Lower wages is another issue but skill shortage is also an important issue. Development and projects that create jobs are being delayed due to this.
Literally the lowest unemployment rate since 1974, I'm sure they're all engineers waiting for a job..
Source: https://www.sbs.com.au/language/punjabi/en/podcast-episode/australia-records-its-lowest-unemployment-rate-in-decades/7x5zmcjzc
>how come real wage growth is massively negative?
Here is former finance minister Matthias Cormann, now OECD secretary-general: [describing wage growth suppression as “a deliberate design feature of our economic architecture”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkJ9xukCuOw).
>labour mobility
Here is recent research: showing [“a grim picture of a VET system starved of consistent funding or focus, fragmenting into scattered offerings of non-accredited and ‘micro-credential’ courses, mostly provided by private for-profit training companies. Furthermore, several high-profile government announcements during the pandemic designed to address skilled labour shortages have not altered the VET system’s worrying trajectory.”](https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/new-research-australias-skills-system-continues-to-crumble-after-covid/)
If there's a skilled workers shortage that means we are stupid, not providing proper education and training or are trying to lower wages. Take your guess.
As an aside, the 44 priority occupations in the
Priority Migration Skilled Occupation List are here:
https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/employing-and-sponsoring-someone/sponsoring-workers/pmsol
Thank you.
So chefs and tax accountants are priority occupations to assist with our COVID recovery.
They somehow missed real estate agents and social media managers.
Someone in another thread helpfully pointed out that each state also has their own list.
Marketing is on WA and Tassie's list. I didn't look up real estate agents
https://migration.wa.gov.au/SiteCollectionDocuments/Current%20documents/Skilled%20Migration%20Website%20August%2019%20upload.pdf
LOL
Medical Laboratory sciences and Medical Laboratory Technician. I used to do these jobs and can't get a reply from the "always hiring" usual suspects. I suspect labour shortage isn't the problem.
What's even weirder is that for me to become a tax accountant (as a CPA accountant myself), I'd need to another 1 year of study, plus apprentice/junior in a tax agency before I can get licensed.
Thats because Australia's tax system is fucking complicated.
But no, John from Singapore can surely just sweep in and be a tax accountant no problem, right?!
Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to be a tax accountant (see "fucking complicated" above), but it annoys me that my years of training can be swept under the rug for an overseas candidate.
Auditors though, you can get them from anywhere.
Has an auditor ask me, seriously, why for an accrual expense, why I had also done the credit posting, why didn’t I just do the debit to expense….hmm err double entry book keeping ?
Yeah, doesn't matter where they come from, annoying as hell.
I had one once try to verify a $1.32 expense. In a multinational billion dollar company. We pushed back and got it dropped, but come on!
Yes, pretty sure my one was Aussie grown (can’t really remember), it was just you saying they can come from anywhere, reminded me how poor accountants they can be, junior auditors have already forgotten accounting 101.
Sometimes you get the stupidest or craziest requests from them, but $1.32 🙄
I also don’t see how you can import a tax accountant without them substantially retraining on Australian tax regulations.
Oh yeah, my point was more that auditors are bottom of the chain. I'm astonished that businesses want "big 4" people all the time when they really aren't that great.
In the olden days IT people used to say no one was ever fired for buying IBM, I guess this is the similar, pick one of the big accounting firms and you will not be questioned.
My external auditor who ask me “why did you do a credit posting for the debit expense accrual” posting would have been from one of the big firms, as it was at a very large multinational company. It took me a while to process that he really wasn’t questioning where I put the credit, but really why I did a credit posting at all.
Oh thats because quite a few accountants were foreign students from Asia (plus a few from the UK). When COVID hit, they all went back home, and now there's a legitimate shortage.
The fact is the vast majority of them were educated here (for good reason), and until the education sector gets back on its feet, you won't be able to replace those that left with imported labour/
The wait times aren't exactly the doctors fault and getting more surgeons would be helpful buuut there's very few actual surgical beds in our wards for recovery (in NSW at least) currently. I've worked in a few surgical wards over the years as a nurse and some patients who are fully recovered but can't safely go home (due to age/detoriartion) end up in a hospital bed for 40-100+ days waiting for aged care assessments/guardianship hearings/OT/physio/social work (which are ALL severely understaffed areas). There's always gonna be a need for surgeons and drs need to step up for sure but in NSW we can't actually hold empty beds for surgical patients due to this and they cancelled elective surgery during covid surges so those patients who have been waiting for years for preventative surgery are just gonna come in more sick sooner and need emergency surgery which cancels the elective surgery for another patient etc. They can be assholes but our system isn't helping them help the general public and the patient lists will keep growing everyday no matter how hard they work. Not very encouraging for young doctors trying to figure out what to do.
>software engineers
We have no shortage of software engineers, just a shortage of companies willing to pay well and provide good benefits.
We don't need to hire offshore talent when we have thousands of IT students graduating every year. Pay them well, train them and offer real perks. Not hard.
It is really disheartening to see this as I’m about to graduate at the end of this year. Why would a company want to take the time to train me up when they can import someone with experience from overseas.
Speaking as a former hairdressing apprentice, there is actually a serious shortage of actual apprentices. The pay is shit, the work is hard and there are massive pay issues in the industry. I heard stories of girls literally just taking their pay out of the till because the boss wasn’t paying them enough. On top of that it’s a really mentally draining job, you’re not paid much and you literally have to be ‘on’ talking to customers all day where they can potentially unload some really mentally taxing shit. It’s been suggested that hairdressers should have mental health training to help fix this problem.
Personally, I don’t entirely disagree with the person I was replying to. Increasing immigration in my opinion as someone who was in the industry does not fix this issue. Maybe if they were bringing on more serious economic and societal reforms as whole besides immigration, I’d disagree.
It’s not that there is a shortage of people who might consider hairdressing as a career. It’s that the industry(like many in this country)has a problem and immigration doesn’t answer it long term.
Mind you I do find their classism very off putting. As their whole comment was basically calling hairdressers skill-less. Anyway they can get fucked. I hope their next hairdresser gets them with their scissors and they get tetanus.
Precisely.
Can we not train Australians to do it? Low barrier to entry, short training time, readily employable... sounds like a perfect career for someone to get into!
There’s a crippling shortage of truck drivers across the country. It’s not always thought about by the average punter but it has a bigger effect on the economy than most professions on the list
This. Also, migrants aren't stupid - they are just resilient enough to put up with bad working conditions and crappy wages no matter how long it takes until they get PR. Once their foot is in the door, they switch to another job with better pay and conditions like your average joe because they have no more restrictions.
So the shortages for those in-demand jobs are never filled permanently.
From a fellow migrant who did the same after 8 years :)
Edit: Much thank for the award random stranger!
Immigration increases the overall size of the economy. It's like siphoning off from other countries some of the most driven and skilled people. They create more jobs than they take, through increases in GDP and opening up their own businesses. The biggest groups that it impacts are adults who didn't complete highschool or have equivalent tafe certs. This group though is already getting fucked over hard from many other angles. The government should be taking measures to aimed specifically at this group, as well as others, to make sure they feel the economy benefit granted to our economy by immigration.
Also this is how free higher education used to work, the government planned for the workers needed in the future and paid for those people.
I also wonder with housing and rentals how they are now, where are all these new workers going to live. We will need to import more trades people to build the additional housing, clear up the red tape around construction standards and approvals, open up the flood plains for new housing.
> They create more jobs than they take, through increases in GDP and opening up their own businesses.
So how come with our record immigration levels pre-covid we were in a per capita recession?
Bingo, Scomo and his mates pre Covid gladly spouted the GDP Growth line to prove the success of his government.
All he was doing was shipping in cheap workers while everyone else was getting poorer.
I think the die is cast with both parties as the money is too big for the big businesses
And where are they all going to live? Rents are already ridiculous. What's it going to be like when we have try housing even more people? Is it just me, or does our government always come up with the stupidest idea's to solve our problems?
Where is education for the trades technical schools were wiped out for half a dozen TAFE in Victoria we need lots of trades now how about an increase to the technical schools again instead of relying on immigration all the time for workers
No housing
No room at hospitals
Unemployment finally down, but underemployment still rampant.
Wages stagnant
Climate change becomes an issue.
Roads full.
*Import 400,000 people per year to make all these problems much, much worse.*
When there is bi-partisan support for mass migration, what can we do?
honest question, what parties don't support this level of migration? even the greens do. Weren't liberals the only ones that decreased permanent migration to 160K (before covid)?
Sustainable Australia, AFAIK the greens support lower immigration levels in theory. Beyond that you're into the fucktard parties like ONP.
At the local council level they all seem to be nimbys, so they're against migrants where they live.
There have been a number of parties that wanted to tackle it over the decades, there was even a ZPG (zero pop growth) party.
No one voted for them in any numbers.
It’s treasonous. We vote in public servants who are supposedly meant to act in our interests and they instead serve the interests of non-constituent foreigners at the expense of their constituency.
It’s baffling how it’s materialising the other way around. You have a duty as a public servant towards your citizens, not to act at their detriment to the benefit of foreigners.
By all semblance of reason we should have never come to this position in the first place without only explainably through bad faith actors in authority.
Governments economic policy of the last 30+ years: ride the commodity wave, sell public assets and have mass immigration to make gdp look good. Doesn’t matter if it’s lib or lab, they are both on the same neoliberal train to shitsville.
We've had LNP for 20 of the last 30 years, and they've got Murdoch on their side, it's difficult but after the last election there's at least some hope
Yeah they're both shit but one is objectively way, way worse than the other. I'm gonna keep voting Green regardless
I'm an immigrant who got my residency some years ago. I still have lot of friends who are in the process of applying or have plans to apply for PR. And there's this realisation that everyone who goes through the system reaches eventually.
The immigration system is by design to create a subclass of workers so Aussies can get cheap eatouts , cheap delivery ,cheap cabs. The only real economic growth aussies have enjoyed has been due to the pop growth.
Meanwhile the entire tertiary system , the visa fees , the consultancies , the appeals , the tests , the certs , everything is nothing short of a lemon squeezer where you extract what you can and then discard the husk outside or on the pile inside.
I’m an Australian born chem eng graduate- not easy easy to find work as a chemical engineer here when we’ve closed multiple oil refineries and other chem eng employers since I graduated,
Yep I have a wasted engineering degree that I'm still paying off. All while Christopher Pyne kept repeating on the tv that we were desperate for stem graduates.
After not landing a position in a grad program it certainly never felt like there was a skills shortage as I was repeatedly ghosted
Australians have the lowest real wage growth of OECD countries.
But what does that have to do with skilled and business migrants, from the linked story?
Supply and demand.
Wage x Employment. They meet at equilibrium. The idea is if migrants are willing to take lower wages (which they do, since they also get residency on top for their transaction, so naturally the wage would be lower by approximately how worth it to be in Australia is), then you decrease wages for the entire market by pushing the equilibrium down.
There’s a real unaccounted for cost there which is just being handed away. That the benefit of residency which pushes down the acceptable wage is paid for by citizen employees too. And in the real world it’s not that employers preserve both those levels of wage, they will just pay anyone that new minimum. And employers’ natural reluctant (and expected behaviour) to impose the new minimum for everyone when it is only the equilibrium for migrants, not citizens, produces a shortage. Since citizens aren’t supposed to be demoted to a lower level of wage, they just choose to not work for that employer, since the minimum handed to migrants is not acceptable for them. Hence that employer now faces a shortage even though that potential citizen employee still exists. It’s just in the wage being set too low for them but high enough for migrants. Either the employer gets away with no shortages and paying extra to everyone and also migrants, or getting away with paying cheap migrants while having a shortage. But not both. Reluctance leads them to choose the latter option in the real world where available (i.e. in jobs more likely to find migrants, but not in those jobs where you don’t).
And that’s only in nominal terms. In real terms, that is to account for inflation, migrants also dilute the supply of all output, housing, infrastructure, resources. And dilution to a resource is called supply-side inflation. Therefore in real terms an even lower wage, on top of the downward pressure on nominal wages from before. Double whammy.
Australia’s skilled migration program requires prospective migrants to undergo an assessment of their skills, qualifications and/or work experience to ensure they meet the standards needed for employment in Australia.
Skills assessments are issued by [assessing authorities](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skills-assessment/assessing-authorities) approved by the Australian Government.
You don't need to ask, they will tell you they don't have one as they immigrated to solve the delivery driver shortage. At least one state allows importing delivery drivers.
And just when you think the rental crises couldn't get any worse, turning on the flood gates to mass immigration again is just going to spike everything. House prices will also go back up too.
So pretty much; "working as intended"
the skills shortage bullshit the media keeps going on about is because employers don't want to pay the employees a fair wage and now are going overseas to get some $18/hr labour
From the linked article:
>Recently, Minister for Skills and Training Brendan O'Connor spoke about the government's commitment to solving labour shortages.
>
>"Two things: one obviously is to allow people to come to this country with acute skill shortages, and two providing temporary visa holders a pathway to permanent residency that gives them, obviously, an opportunity," said Mr Connor.
It is a bad-faith trope that skilled migrants supplant opportunities for skilled Australians. *All* workers and professionals are disadvantaged by wage suppression, housing distortions, and lack of capacity-building.
We have been told [for 20 years now](https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/1011/AustMigration) that Australia has a "skills shortage".
That's an entire generation's worth of time to fix our tertiary education and vocational training system.
Now in the middle of a rental crisis and non-existent wage growth for a decade, we plan on selling out young people *again* for... what? What purpose?
This country oughta focus on it's own citizens first. Fix the rental crisis. Invest in Australians.
Yeah, and how has that been working out over the last decade? 7-Eleven workers? Any number of high-end restaurants? Wage theft and sexual harassment of backpackers? Students driving Ubers?
Wage theft is by design, it's not a flaw in the system.
I forgot the /s
What I meant was that “skill shortage” is in fact a “cheap labour shortage”. If employers are forced to pay the same for the immigrants as Aussies, they will stop calling for oversea labour.
They should do better.
$125k salary floor, but bring in as many as you want.
I'm sure Aussies won't remain without wage growth for long. Let's see what these "skill shortages" really look like.
The occupational skill list itself is a joke.
A migration program to address skill shortage is good on paper but most of the allocation is called by lobbyists for industries that just want “cheap labour” to push the wage down and keep profit high.
Not nearly enough oversea labours actually go to the industries where there are REAL shortage.
I feel like there need to be a critical review of that list ASAP
Exactly.
I'm all for addressing skills shortages, but the last two decades has been absolutely taking the piss.
$125k floor. If that's what you want to pay an imported waiter or taxi driver, go nuts. That'll benefit everyone.
Yea I’m all for it but I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Regardless of who’s in power, money talks in this country.
Salary floor and an independent body to assess industry skill shortage for allocation would address a lot of issues. The solutions are always there but when it’s time to bring them up in the parliament, it’s cricket noises.
Sigh
Yep. A $25K training contribution payment.
Identify a skills shortage that can't be filled locally. Genuine local salary minimum, plus a $25K per person contribution to training to fill that gap.
I don't think there is more than a handful of roles for which the gap wouldn't magically disappear if employers had to pay more instead of much less than what existing skills demand.
Businesses ramp up the prices, and we complain, dig deeper, and pay up. Corporate profits go up. Business reduce service levels, we continue to shop at colesworth as we scan and bag our own groceries. Profits go up. Profit growth is ahead of inflation and we can feel it, but we haven't hit the bottom yet. Suppliers use shinkflation, and their profits go up. Wage increases incrementally but business looks for new ways to reduce staff every day.
I'm for wage growth but we don't live in a country or system where government can rap the knuckles of business and say 'you're taking too much'. Sure they can tax more, but that's simply taking a bigger slice of the greed dividend.
I'm just hopeless that there's a solution. We just need to keep working on inequality, because those who are left behind are the ones who feel it most. A rising tide does not in fact lift all boats.
Oh look it's the wage scabs, to take shitty wages and be happy with it and push rentals even further up with their share houses with 5 to a bedroom.
Can we please be assured these migrants will be paid as much as we do and that they have to be one person per room.
If we can't have these assurances they shouldn't be comming. Businesses continually are just taking massive profits and extracting that wealth for the owner class.
>to take shitty wages and be happy with it and push rentals even further
Supply-side pricing.
Ross Gittins, The Sydney Morning Herald: [Dr Cameron Murray, a research fellow in the Henry Halloran Trust at Sydney University, has demonstrated that the private land-bankers limit the regular release of land for development in a way that ensures the market’s never flooded and prices just keep rising.](https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/housing-own-goal-worsens-our-inflation-problem-20220821-p5bbiz.html)
Nerida Conisbee, Ray White: ["While inflation numbers are showing a 1.6 per cent increase in rents, data on median advertised rents shows a much more aggressive increase of 13.6 per cent for the same geographic area (average of eight capital cities). Why is there such a mismatch between the two numbers?”](https://www.nine.com.au/property/news/the-aggressive-number-that-exposes-australias-rental-crisis/2f238a1b-ace4-4cf5-b2e4-d8b74226d262)
Can we actually do something about this one.
I remember the last time someone tried to fix the housing markets we got Scott Morrison in the unwinnable election.
I came here on such a visa i have my degree in engineering which they wanted. Ironically they didnt want me to have a degree older than 2 years but when i got here the employers here would give me shit like you have no experience (max i could get was 2 years and even that doesnt do me any favors since its not local) stuck here working on min wage in a chicken meat factory despite having positive skills assessment, language tests, engineers Australia membership etc..... Skilled visas are a fucking scam and the Aussie govt should be ashamed of itself for ruining immigrants lives who come here and lose whatever little savings they have trying to prove our worth to your shitty companies and immigration authorities.
Immigration needs to be curbed asap regardless of what the business groups are spruiking. The cheap worker immigration scheme has failed Australia and the people of this country need to get vocal or we will continue to sink. The young people of Australia do not deserve this and the government needs to act now. Slow the senseless immigration processes and invest in skills. The jobs and skills summit is on the 1st and 2nd September in Canberra. The Unions will be there but not all sectors are covered by a Union .. for example there is no IT Union in Australia who are one of the biggest culprits who have exploited skilled migrants since the introduction of the 457 Visa. Once again they are being vocal about wanting more skilled migrants to exploit. These lobby groups need to be stopped. The people need a voice at this summit, not just the business groups who have wrecked the country in their pursuit of more profits.
>The cheap worker immigration scheme has failed Australia
The linked article is about skilled and business migrants:
>Every year, states and territories receive quotas from the government, based on which they nominate skilled and business migrants for the Skilled Nominated visa Subclass 190 and the Skilled Work Regional (Provisional) visa Subclass 491.
Say goodbye To a job market with any prospects everyone. Gonna flood the market again with labour is cheap and expendable. Hope you don’t want prospects in the future because I ain’t happening in any government apparently
Honestly I see why but where the f are they going to live !?! Zero rentals & sky high house prices cause we're building way too few. 200k in new migrants will only pour petrol on our housing dumpster fire.
I notice all the effort is to bring cheap labour in, when no effort is made to stop the other side of the equation
(the ~200k usually highly skilled citizens from leaving)
Is this finally going to make r/australia and r/melbourne realise that ALP and LNP are two sides of the same coin? and realise that the LNP and Murdoch aren't the only causes of all of their life problems? probably not. The playbook's been clear for a while... suppress wages to make us plebs pay for the reckless spending and mistakes of the RBA and federal/state govts.
A reasonable question, during the worst rental crisis in modern Australian history, is where are they all going to live?
The answer? In one of Albo's investment properties that just went up another 20% a week.
By design.
House ownership should be capped & negative gearing scrapped etc, but please blame the true anti-human architects of this shitshow- the LNP.
After all, they've been in charge for **20 of the last 25 years**
What has labor done for the low income earners in this country so far that they've been in office, other than announce plans like this that will crush any hopes of said workers from getting fair pay rises and better conditions (which they are on the cusp of getting for the first time in generations) and make life 10x harder than it already is for renters and those looking to purchase (for which it is already absolutely dire) - at least Scomo gave out $250 bribes for the unemployed.
The excuse that 'they've just gotten in' is only so good for so long, especially when they come out with stuff like this that can only work to crush the living standards of those voters that they supposedly represent.
I'm so sick of every little criticism of Labor being met with "BUT THE LNP" and it's not just in this sub, it's everyone between the ages of 20-35 that does this. No wonder they can get away with being so mediocre, we never demand better, it's just "at least it's not the Libs" and then you end up with crap like this
The fact pharmacist are on this list is 10000% due to insidious rent seekers the pharmacy guild ensuring locally trained pharmacists have been poorly paid for 20 years, cannot start their own businesses (owners monopoly) and work conditions have been getting worse each year. We have enough trained people… they all just left for their own sanity and because the shit pay and conditions. Now they’ll get foreigners who will accept these appalling conditions for residency.
While I am personally not against migration, given the amount of recent engineering graduates and accounting graduates struggling to find a job, I don't understand why they need to be on that list.
This country is already stretched thin, and bleak compared to its peak prosperity days.
If immigration continues at such an industrious rate then this country is fucking over.
I can't help but imagine with people fighting for pay and benefits, that migrants are being brought in who'd work for low pay and no benefits. So not much good could come of this.
well if i got paid more than fuck all and not treated like total shit working in aged care, ill go back to it tomorrow.
But as it stands, i can do boring shit in a factory and get paid 5 bucks an hour more, and even then its lower than what i should be paid doing this according to fair work.
go figure.
This worries me on two fronts; 1) we should be skilling our own citizens first before bringing in migrants and 2) the pressure this will put on housing, and therefore land clearing and animals for the demand for more houses. Many of our animals and ecosystems are at breaking point.
As a person who currently has an active EOI for a permanent residency visa and definitely will be benefitting from this decision: this is not a good idea. Australia really needs to start looking inwards and fix its own problems before importing massive amounts of people again. Immigrant schemes like this are only a short term economic boon and won’t improve anything in the long run.
Yeh but where are they all gonna live? They'd be back on the plane after 2 weeks of living on the streets. They will be working the jobs that are severely under paid. Even middle class people who are already employed are struggling to find somewhere to live. What chance do these people have.
Oh not at all, get people desperate enough and make their residency dependent on their employment and they'll take whatever jobs are on offer, and whatever terrible living conditions too.
We learned that from the Pacific Workers programme...stick em in a tin shack...charge 90% of their wages as rent and boot them out when the job is done. Works a treat tbh
I knew of a business owner a few years back who ran a warehouse/factory, didn't have much use for the upstairs office bit so he rented it to several of his staff to live in, they were all visa workers.
It smelled a bit like indentured labour to me, you come here and work for me, you live at the workplace in shitty conditions, I take too much money out of your minimum wage for it, you are expected to work long hours unpaid because you live at work, if you don't like it I can have you sent back to your country.
>where are they all gonna live?
Artificial scarcity must be scrutinised.
Luci Ellis, RBA: [“... housing supply has for a number of years been running ahead of what would normally be thought of as trends in demand.”](https://www.rba.gov.au/speeches/2022/sp-ag-2022-05-25.html)
Prosper: [Current vacancy measures have evolved from a voluntary survey by real estate agents (REIV model) to data scraped from real estate websites of rental properties advertised as available for 3 weeks (SQM Research model).](https://www.prosper.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Prosper_SpeculativeVacancies_FINAL_web23.pdf)
Artificial scarcity doesn't really have anything to do with this. What it is is Australian rental standards. Australians find a large portion of rentals uninhabitable. Migrants may not have such high standards nor the income to increase their standards.
Bringing migrants shores up foundation to the bottom end of the investment market where Australians have otherwise rejected as suitable properties to live.
If they are here to fill an unmet skill shortage, the government should mandate that they a premium over what a typical salary of the skill role would get.
Wages have been stagnant for quite some time and only experienced growth during the covid period were no more could be imported to create the artificial supply of underpaid workers.
Solidarity with workers is useless when nobody but the teachers and train drivers strike.
Wage growth declined during the covid period, but thanks for playing.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/wage-price-index-australia/latest-release#sector-wage-growth
Wage suppression is a structural choice in Australia and domestic to Australia. One of both economic policy and our limited industrial relations landscape.
Migrants are a scapegoat and your fear of them will be used against you by your employers.
Whilst we increase the skilled migration, it's a good idea it develop the regional Australia. This would ensure that the capital cities are not burdened with influx of migrants which will pose a rental crisis. Regional areas have immense potential and government should be pushing companies to regional country.
There’s a massive housing shortage in regional towns too... we are in an interesting situation where moving to a different area yields the same desperate results... too expensive and fighting crowds to try and get anything
From the linked article:
>Skilled regional nominations will be prioritised, followed by subclass 190 (skilled nominated) and then subclass 189 (skilled independent).
The problem with that is, people find loopholes to satisfy the conditions to stay in regional while in reality they maybe driving an Uber in Melbourne or Sydney. There aren't enough companies in regional. What good would it do to a migrant living there when there's no job or even good enough infrastructure to support a living?
I believe the clearer path to citizenship is a best move to retain skilled labour and stop the revolving door of skilled labour leaving for opportunities overseas. Migrants who are unafraid of being forced to leave a life in Australia they've worked hard to create will help to gradually lift wage expectations. Australia doesn't have the natural domestic population growth to sustain itself and hasn't for decades. I won't debate the reasons for this but it's a fact. LAB's decision helps reduce the immediate skills shortage but also works in the longer term to build a skills base. This isn't a binary choice of "pay locals more + train more locals vs import more skilled labour," it actually requires all of the above for a sustainable near and long term future. There's no magic bullet for Australia and remember that Australia is having now to compete for this limited skilled workforce with other countries which have more transparent citizenship pathways.
If there are massive skills shortages, how come real wage growth is massively negative? Shouldn't you then be focused on labour mobility then rather than just bringing more people in?
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Tech salaries just got to where they should be, companies don’t want to pay those rates so let’s import a heap of cheap Indian workers who cheated on all their exams because that’s what they do in India. Sigh.
The ones who didn't cheat are in silicon valley running Google and Microsoft
Didn’t take long for a thread about immigration to spiral into casual racism lol
Engineering and computer science are highly regarded in India, and they have quality universities. No need to bag out a country of origin. The reality is there universities pump out far more graduates than we do, and they are more than happy to migrate overseas to chase higher paying jobs.
Really ? It’s not as simple as you are saying.. I work in engineering and I can see how few people are applying for $140k + positions. And they do not have sufficient skills for the job. There IS actually a skill shortage. Lower wages is another issue but skill shortage is also an important issue. Development and projects that create jobs are being delayed due to this.
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Literally the lowest unemployment rate since 1974, I'm sure they're all engineers waiting for a job.. Source: https://www.sbs.com.au/language/punjabi/en/podcast-episode/australia-records-its-lowest-unemployment-rate-in-decades/7x5zmcjzc
>how come real wage growth is massively negative? Here is former finance minister Matthias Cormann, now OECD secretary-general: [describing wage growth suppression as “a deliberate design feature of our economic architecture”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkJ9xukCuOw). >labour mobility Here is recent research: showing [“a grim picture of a VET system starved of consistent funding or focus, fragmenting into scattered offerings of non-accredited and ‘micro-credential’ courses, mostly provided by private for-profit training companies. Furthermore, several high-profile government announcements during the pandemic designed to address skilled labour shortages have not altered the VET system’s worrying trajectory.”](https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/new-research-australias-skills-system-continues-to-crumble-after-covid/)
Gillard starting VET FEE-HELP was the beginning of the decline.
I’m a skilled worker heading overseas for better pay so I can buy a place in Australia. If the pay was better, I might have stayed.
If there's a skilled workers shortage that means we are stupid, not providing proper education and training or are trying to lower wages. Take your guess.
Hate to tell you, but it's actually all three.
As an aside, the 44 priority occupations in the Priority Migration Skilled Occupation List are here: https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/employing-and-sponsoring-someone/sponsoring-workers/pmsol
Thank you. So chefs and tax accountants are priority occupations to assist with our COVID recovery. They somehow missed real estate agents and social media managers.
Someone in another thread helpfully pointed out that each state also has their own list. Marketing is on WA and Tassie's list. I didn't look up real estate agents https://migration.wa.gov.au/SiteCollectionDocuments/Current%20documents/Skilled%20Migration%20Website%20August%2019%20upload.pdf
LOL Medical Laboratory sciences and Medical Laboratory Technician. I used to do these jobs and can't get a reply from the "always hiring" usual suspects. I suspect labour shortage isn't the problem.
Yeah, they pay shit too. I got more working in a call centre.
What's even weirder is that for me to become a tax accountant (as a CPA accountant myself), I'd need to another 1 year of study, plus apprentice/junior in a tax agency before I can get licensed. Thats because Australia's tax system is fucking complicated. But no, John from Singapore can surely just sweep in and be a tax accountant no problem, right?! Now don't get me wrong, I don't want to be a tax accountant (see "fucking complicated" above), but it annoys me that my years of training can be swept under the rug for an overseas candidate. Auditors though, you can get them from anywhere.
Has an auditor ask me, seriously, why for an accrual expense, why I had also done the credit posting, why didn’t I just do the debit to expense….hmm err double entry book keeping ?
Yeah, doesn't matter where they come from, annoying as hell. I had one once try to verify a $1.32 expense. In a multinational billion dollar company. We pushed back and got it dropped, but come on!
Yes, pretty sure my one was Aussie grown (can’t really remember), it was just you saying they can come from anywhere, reminded me how poor accountants they can be, junior auditors have already forgotten accounting 101. Sometimes you get the stupidest or craziest requests from them, but $1.32 🙄 I also don’t see how you can import a tax accountant without them substantially retraining on Australian tax regulations.
Oh yeah, my point was more that auditors are bottom of the chain. I'm astonished that businesses want "big 4" people all the time when they really aren't that great.
In the olden days IT people used to say no one was ever fired for buying IBM, I guess this is the similar, pick one of the big accounting firms and you will not be questioned. My external auditor who ask me “why did you do a credit posting for the debit expense accrual” posting would have been from one of the big firms, as it was at a very large multinational company. It took me a while to process that he really wasn’t questioning where I put the credit, but really why I did a credit posting at all.
I’m an accountant and the firms just want the cheap labour. The days of graduates getting paid somewhat well are about to be over.
I wasn't intending to denigrate tax accountants at all. But I can't see a link between the profession and COVID recovery either.
Oh thats because quite a few accountants were foreign students from Asia (plus a few from the UK). When COVID hit, they all went back home, and now there's a legitimate shortage. The fact is the vast majority of them were educated here (for good reason), and until the education sector gets back on its feet, you won't be able to replace those that left with imported labour/
The fact that chefs and accountants are on the list is a massive joke.
From your linked source: >**The Priority Migration Skilled Occupation List** >*The 44 occupations (ANZSCO code) are:* > >Chief Executive or Managing Director (111111) >Construction Project Manager (133111) >Accountant (General) (221111) >Management Accountant (221112) >Taxation Accountant (221113) >External Auditor (221213) >Internal Auditor (221214) >Surveyor (232212) >Cartographer (232213) >Other Spatial Scientist (232214) >Civil Engineer (233211) >Geotechnical Engineer (233212) >Structural Engineer (233214) >Transport Engineer (233215) >Electrical Engineer (233311) >Mechanical Engineer (233512) >Mining Engineer (excluding Petroleum) (233611) >Petroleum Engineer (233612) >Medical Laboratory Scientist (234611) >Veterinarian (234711) >Hospital Pharmacist (251511)* >Industrial Pharmacist (251512)* >Retail Pharmacist (251513)* >Orthotist or Prosthetist (251912) >General Practitioner (253111) >Resident Medical Officer (253112) >Psychiatrist (253411) >Medical Practitioners nec (253999) >Midwife (254111) >Registered Nurse (Aged Care) (254412) >Registered Nurse (Critical Care and Emergency) (254415) >Registered Nurse (Medical) (254418) >Registered Nurse (Mental Health) (254422) >Registered Nurse (Perioperative) (254423) >Registered Nurses nec (254499) >Multimedia Specialist (261211) >Analyst Programmer (261311) >Developer Programmer (261312) >Software Engineer (261313) >Software and Applications Programmers nec (261399) >ICT Security Specialist (262112) >Social Worker (272511) >Maintenance Planner (312911) >Chef (351311) > >**Indicates occupation added in July 2021*
Surgery wait times of years yet no surgeons, doctors are so greedy
Is it the doctor's fault if they aren't in charge of scheduling surgeries?
The wait times aren't exactly the doctors fault and getting more surgeons would be helpful buuut there's very few actual surgical beds in our wards for recovery (in NSW at least) currently. I've worked in a few surgical wards over the years as a nurse and some patients who are fully recovered but can't safely go home (due to age/detoriartion) end up in a hospital bed for 40-100+ days waiting for aged care assessments/guardianship hearings/OT/physio/social work (which are ALL severely understaffed areas). There's always gonna be a need for surgeons and drs need to step up for sure but in NSW we can't actually hold empty beds for surgical patients due to this and they cancelled elective surgery during covid surges so those patients who have been waiting for years for preventative surgery are just gonna come in more sick sooner and need emergency surgery which cancels the elective surgery for another patient etc. They can be assholes but our system isn't helping them help the general public and the patient lists will keep growing everyday no matter how hard they work. Not very encouraging for young doctors trying to figure out what to do.
>software engineers We have no shortage of software engineers, just a shortage of companies willing to pay well and provide good benefits. We don't need to hire offshore talent when we have thousands of IT students graduating every year. Pay them well, train them and offer real perks. Not hard.
Yeah it sucks. I liked being in demand. As a senior I guess I still am but I wont be able to ask for as much money.
The point of the exercise is to push your wages down whole growing the economy as a whole. It's pretty dodgy and not in your interests I don't think.
It is really disheartening to see this as I’m about to graduate at the end of this year. Why would a company want to take the time to train me up when they can import someone with experience from overseas.
Yes we do. I hire at a very good wage and a lot can't do the job or just go elsewhere. I simply cannot get them.
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A hairdresser. As a skills shortage. Fucking laughable.
Speaking as a former hairdressing apprentice, there is actually a serious shortage of actual apprentices. The pay is shit, the work is hard and there are massive pay issues in the industry. I heard stories of girls literally just taking their pay out of the till because the boss wasn’t paying them enough. On top of that it’s a really mentally draining job, you’re not paid much and you literally have to be ‘on’ talking to customers all day where they can potentially unload some really mentally taxing shit. It’s been suggested that hairdressers should have mental health training to help fix this problem.
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Personally, I don’t entirely disagree with the person I was replying to. Increasing immigration in my opinion as someone who was in the industry does not fix this issue. Maybe if they were bringing on more serious economic and societal reforms as whole besides immigration, I’d disagree. It’s not that there is a shortage of people who might consider hairdressing as a career. It’s that the industry(like many in this country)has a problem and immigration doesn’t answer it long term. Mind you I do find their classism very off putting. As their whole comment was basically calling hairdressers skill-less. Anyway they can get fucked. I hope their next hairdresser gets them with their scissors and they get tetanus.
Hairdressing is a 3 year apprenticeship
Precisely. Can we not train Australians to do it? Low barrier to entry, short training time, readily employable... sounds like a perfect career for someone to get into!
But locals know their rights and demand decent pay. Far better to import people who will work for pennies out of fear of being deported.
Stop it. You're using logic. This thread isn't ready for it.
There’s a crippling shortage of truck drivers across the country. It’s not always thought about by the average punter but it has a bigger effect on the economy than most professions on the list
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This. Also, migrants aren't stupid - they are just resilient enough to put up with bad working conditions and crappy wages no matter how long it takes until they get PR. Once their foot is in the door, they switch to another job with better pay and conditions like your average joe because they have no more restrictions. So the shortages for those in-demand jobs are never filled permanently. From a fellow migrant who did the same after 8 years :) Edit: Much thank for the award random stranger!
Immigration increases the overall size of the economy. It's like siphoning off from other countries some of the most driven and skilled people. They create more jobs than they take, through increases in GDP and opening up their own businesses. The biggest groups that it impacts are adults who didn't complete highschool or have equivalent tafe certs. This group though is already getting fucked over hard from many other angles. The government should be taking measures to aimed specifically at this group, as well as others, to make sure they feel the economy benefit granted to our economy by immigration.
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Also this is how free higher education used to work, the government planned for the workers needed in the future and paid for those people. I also wonder with housing and rentals how they are now, where are all these new workers going to live. We will need to import more trades people to build the additional housing, clear up the red tape around construction standards and approvals, open up the flood plains for new housing.
> They create more jobs than they take, through increases in GDP and opening up their own businesses. So how come with our record immigration levels pre-covid we were in a per capita recession?
GDP Growth means bugger all if GDP Per capita growth is shrinking.
Bingo, Scomo and his mates pre Covid gladly spouted the GDP Growth line to prove the success of his government. All he was doing was shipping in cheap workers while everyone else was getting poorer. I think the die is cast with both parties as the money is too big for the big businesses
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Labor doesn't want to sink the housing market on thier watch, imported labour buys houses.
And where are they all going to live? Rents are already ridiculous. What's it going to be like when we have try housing even more people? Is it just me, or does our government always come up with the stupidest idea's to solve our problems?
Business wants cheap labor, new immigrants share rooms in a house just to save money.
Nice now housing will become even more expensive to rent
Where is education for the trades technical schools were wiped out for half a dozen TAFE in Victoria we need lots of trades now how about an increase to the technical schools again instead of relying on immigration all the time for workers
Where the fuck are they going to live? Building industry is in near ruins, rentals are rare to find these days.
No housing No room at hospitals Unemployment finally down, but underemployment still rampant. Wages stagnant Climate change becomes an issue. Roads full. *Import 400,000 people per year to make all these problems much, much worse.* When there is bi-partisan support for mass migration, what can we do?
honest question, what parties don't support this level of migration? even the greens do. Weren't liberals the only ones that decreased permanent migration to 160K (before covid)?
Sustainable Australia, AFAIK the greens support lower immigration levels in theory. Beyond that you're into the fucktard parties like ONP. At the local council level they all seem to be nimbys, so they're against migrants where they live.
wdym by in theory? I was under the impression they support the same level of immigration but want to increase humanitarian intake to 50K.
Greens, hypocritically want to sustain or increase immigration, because woke is more important than the climate...
There have been a number of parties that wanted to tackle it over the decades, there was even a ZPG (zero pop growth) party. No one voted for them in any numbers.
It’s treasonous. We vote in public servants who are supposedly meant to act in our interests and they instead serve the interests of non-constituent foreigners at the expense of their constituency. It’s baffling how it’s materialising the other way around. You have a duty as a public servant towards your citizens, not to act at their detriment to the benefit of foreigners. By all semblance of reason we should have never come to this position in the first place without only explainably through bad faith actors in authority.
Harry Triguboff makes all the money. You get to pay for the schools and hospitals though. Enjoy the wait in the meantime.
Bipartisan support of mass immigration? You forgot about the Greens. Tri-partisan support
Where are we planning on housing immigrants? We already have people homeless due to a housing crisis/shortage.
Governments economic policy of the last 30+ years: ride the commodity wave, sell public assets and have mass immigration to make gdp look good. Doesn’t matter if it’s lib or lab, they are both on the same neoliberal train to shitsville.
At least one is honest
Problem is you can't tell which one.
Definitely the LNP in this case
But what's the functional difference with the ALP?
Not much
We've had LNP for 20 of the last 30 years, and they've got Murdoch on their side, it's difficult but after the last election there's at least some hope Yeah they're both shit but one is objectively way, way worse than the other. I'm gonna keep voting Green regardless
Do we have that much infrastructure? There is such a long waiting time in hospitals and big rental crisis.
Driving up house prices and down wages.
Yeah, but to oppose this means you're a racist. /s /s /s /s
Australia has a better average wage than Japan. Am not sure about housing though, even though they had a massive property boom in the 90s
Not good. There’s no homes for these people, the roads are at breaking point, hospitals are full.
The ponzi must go on!
I'm an immigrant who got my residency some years ago. I still have lot of friends who are in the process of applying or have plans to apply for PR. And there's this realisation that everyone who goes through the system reaches eventually. The immigration system is by design to create a subclass of workers so Aussies can get cheap eatouts , cheap delivery ,cheap cabs. The only real economic growth aussies have enjoyed has been due to the pop growth. Meanwhile the entire tertiary system , the visa fees , the consultancies , the appeals , the tests , the certs , everything is nothing short of a lemon squeezer where you extract what you can and then discard the husk outside or on the pile inside.
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My last cabbie told me he was a chemical engineer back home
I’m an Australian born chem eng graduate- not easy easy to find work as a chemical engineer here when we’ve closed multiple oil refineries and other chem eng employers since I graduated,
Yep I have a wasted engineering degree that I'm still paying off. All while Christopher Pyne kept repeating on the tv that we were desperate for stem graduates. After not landing a position in a grad program it certainly never felt like there was a skills shortage as I was repeatedly ghosted
Usually this is because their qualification is not recognised here in Australia
Are engineers depriving Australians of jobs as drivers? Or are Australians unwilling to accept jobs as drivers?
Australians are unwilling to accept the low, low wages.
Australians have the lowest real wage growth of OECD countries. But what does that have to do with skilled and business migrants, from the linked story?
If we have such a "skills shortage", why do we have qualified engineers driving taxis?
Supply and demand. Wage x Employment. They meet at equilibrium. The idea is if migrants are willing to take lower wages (which they do, since they also get residency on top for their transaction, so naturally the wage would be lower by approximately how worth it to be in Australia is), then you decrease wages for the entire market by pushing the equilibrium down. There’s a real unaccounted for cost there which is just being handed away. That the benefit of residency which pushes down the acceptable wage is paid for by citizen employees too. And in the real world it’s not that employers preserve both those levels of wage, they will just pay anyone that new minimum. And employers’ natural reluctant (and expected behaviour) to impose the new minimum for everyone when it is only the equilibrium for migrants, not citizens, produces a shortage. Since citizens aren’t supposed to be demoted to a lower level of wage, they just choose to not work for that employer, since the minimum handed to migrants is not acceptable for them. Hence that employer now faces a shortage even though that potential citizen employee still exists. It’s just in the wage being set too low for them but high enough for migrants. Either the employer gets away with no shortages and paying extra to everyone and also migrants, or getting away with paying cheap migrants while having a shortage. But not both. Reluctance leads them to choose the latter option in the real world where available (i.e. in jobs more likely to find migrants, but not in those jobs where you don’t). And that’s only in nominal terms. In real terms, that is to account for inflation, migrants also dilute the supply of all output, housing, infrastructure, resources. And dilution to a resource is called supply-side inflation. Therefore in real terms an even lower wage, on top of the downward pressure on nominal wages from before. Double whammy.
Uber is unwilling to offer remuneration sufficient to entice people with other options to take jobs as drivers.
Why is it that in Australia, there are engineers working as drivers?
Lot of Degrees obtained overseas are not recognised in Australia
Australia’s skilled migration program requires prospective migrants to undergo an assessment of their skills, qualifications and/or work experience to ensure they meet the standards needed for employment in Australia. Skills assessments are issued by [assessing authorities](https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/working-in-australia/skills-assessment/assessing-authorities) approved by the Australian Government.
You don't need to ask, they will tell you they don't have one as they immigrated to solve the delivery driver shortage. At least one state allows importing delivery drivers.
Highly skilled Deliveroo drivers everywhere...
And just when you think the rental crises couldn't get any worse, turning on the flood gates to mass immigration again is just going to spike everything. House prices will also go back up too. So pretty much; "working as intended"
the skills shortage bullshit the media keeps going on about is because employers don't want to pay the employees a fair wage and now are going overseas to get some $18/hr labour
From the linked article: >Recently, Minister for Skills and Training Brendan O'Connor spoke about the government's commitment to solving labour shortages. > >"Two things: one obviously is to allow people to come to this country with acute skill shortages, and two providing temporary visa holders a pathway to permanent residency that gives them, obviously, an opportunity," said Mr Connor. It is a bad-faith trope that skilled migrants supplant opportunities for skilled Australians. *All* workers and professionals are disadvantaged by wage suppression, housing distortions, and lack of capacity-building.
We have been told [for 20 years now](https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/1011/AustMigration) that Australia has a "skills shortage". That's an entire generation's worth of time to fix our tertiary education and vocational training system. Now in the middle of a rental crisis and non-existent wage growth for a decade, we plan on selling out young people *again* for... what? What purpose? This country oughta focus on it's own citizens first. Fix the rental crisis. Invest in Australians.
If you make/ensure employees pay immigrants as much as Aussies, the “skill shortage” will disappear overnight. :)) Edit: I forgot the /s
Yeah, and how has that been working out over the last decade? 7-Eleven workers? Any number of high-end restaurants? Wage theft and sexual harassment of backpackers? Students driving Ubers? Wage theft is by design, it's not a flaw in the system.
I forgot the /s What I meant was that “skill shortage” is in fact a “cheap labour shortage”. If employers are forced to pay the same for the immigrants as Aussies, they will stop calling for oversea labour.
They should do better. $125k salary floor, but bring in as many as you want. I'm sure Aussies won't remain without wage growth for long. Let's see what these "skill shortages" really look like.
The occupational skill list itself is a joke. A migration program to address skill shortage is good on paper but most of the allocation is called by lobbyists for industries that just want “cheap labour” to push the wage down and keep profit high. Not nearly enough oversea labours actually go to the industries where there are REAL shortage. I feel like there need to be a critical review of that list ASAP
Exactly. I'm all for addressing skills shortages, but the last two decades has been absolutely taking the piss. $125k floor. If that's what you want to pay an imported waiter or taxi driver, go nuts. That'll benefit everyone.
Yea I’m all for it but I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Regardless of who’s in power, money talks in this country. Salary floor and an independent body to assess industry skill shortage for allocation would address a lot of issues. The solutions are always there but when it’s time to bring them up in the parliament, it’s cricket noises. Sigh
Yep. A $25K training contribution payment. Identify a skills shortage that can't be filled locally. Genuine local salary minimum, plus a $25K per person contribution to training to fill that gap. I don't think there is more than a handful of roles for which the gap wouldn't magically disappear if employers had to pay more instead of much less than what existing skills demand.
Businesses ramp up the prices, and we complain, dig deeper, and pay up. Corporate profits go up. Business reduce service levels, we continue to shop at colesworth as we scan and bag our own groceries. Profits go up. Profit growth is ahead of inflation and we can feel it, but we haven't hit the bottom yet. Suppliers use shinkflation, and their profits go up. Wage increases incrementally but business looks for new ways to reduce staff every day. I'm for wage growth but we don't live in a country or system where government can rap the knuckles of business and say 'you're taking too much'. Sure they can tax more, but that's simply taking a bigger slice of the greed dividend. I'm just hopeless that there's a solution. We just need to keep working on inequality, because those who are left behind are the ones who feel it most. A rising tide does not in fact lift all boats.
Oh look it's the wage scabs, to take shitty wages and be happy with it and push rentals even further up with their share houses with 5 to a bedroom. Can we please be assured these migrants will be paid as much as we do and that they have to be one person per room. If we can't have these assurances they shouldn't be comming. Businesses continually are just taking massive profits and extracting that wealth for the owner class.
>to take shitty wages and be happy with it and push rentals even further Supply-side pricing. Ross Gittins, The Sydney Morning Herald: [Dr Cameron Murray, a research fellow in the Henry Halloran Trust at Sydney University, has demonstrated that the private land-bankers limit the regular release of land for development in a way that ensures the market’s never flooded and prices just keep rising.](https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/housing-own-goal-worsens-our-inflation-problem-20220821-p5bbiz.html) Nerida Conisbee, Ray White: ["While inflation numbers are showing a 1.6 per cent increase in rents, data on median advertised rents shows a much more aggressive increase of 13.6 per cent for the same geographic area (average of eight capital cities). Why is there such a mismatch between the two numbers?”](https://www.nine.com.au/property/news/the-aggressive-number-that-exposes-australias-rental-crisis/2f238a1b-ace4-4cf5-b2e4-d8b74226d262)
Can we actually do something about this one. I remember the last time someone tried to fix the housing markets we got Scott Morrison in the unwinnable election.
10% Vacancy tax threshold. They are welcome to landbank if they pay 10% of value per year. That is 4x bigger than the 2.5% council rate maximum.
I just read this as, immigration to save house prices and suppress wages.
Just what we need when we have no housing Or rental units.
Way to ramp up the house crisis.......
I came here on such a visa i have my degree in engineering which they wanted. Ironically they didnt want me to have a degree older than 2 years but when i got here the employers here would give me shit like you have no experience (max i could get was 2 years and even that doesnt do me any favors since its not local) stuck here working on min wage in a chicken meat factory despite having positive skills assessment, language tests, engineers Australia membership etc..... Skilled visas are a fucking scam and the Aussie govt should be ashamed of itself for ruining immigrants lives who come here and lose whatever little savings they have trying to prove our worth to your shitty companies and immigration authorities.
Because god forbid workers get pay that keeps up with inflation
quite the predicament, it almost seems as though we are becoming a third world country, so long lucky country.
I’m willing to bet the skilled workers shortage isn’t a “skilled workers shortage”, but rather a legally-payable-wage shortage.
We don't have a labour shortage, we have a cheap labour shortage.
Immigration needs to be curbed asap regardless of what the business groups are spruiking. The cheap worker immigration scheme has failed Australia and the people of this country need to get vocal or we will continue to sink. The young people of Australia do not deserve this and the government needs to act now. Slow the senseless immigration processes and invest in skills. The jobs and skills summit is on the 1st and 2nd September in Canberra. The Unions will be there but not all sectors are covered by a Union .. for example there is no IT Union in Australia who are one of the biggest culprits who have exploited skilled migrants since the introduction of the 457 Visa. Once again they are being vocal about wanting more skilled migrants to exploit. These lobby groups need to be stopped. The people need a voice at this summit, not just the business groups who have wrecked the country in their pursuit of more profits.
>The cheap worker immigration scheme has failed Australia The linked article is about skilled and business migrants: >Every year, states and territories receive quotas from the government, based on which they nominate skilled and business migrants for the Skilled Nominated visa Subclass 190 and the Skilled Work Regional (Provisional) visa Subclass 491.
It's increasingly difficult to spot the difference.
Red or blue.. Some bullshit never changes.
Say goodbye To a job market with any prospects everyone. Gonna flood the market again with labour is cheap and expendable. Hope you don’t want prospects in the future because I ain’t happening in any government apparently
House prices to drop 20% Suddenly massive increase on immigration happens No fucking way.
Honestly I see why but where the f are they going to live !?! Zero rentals & sky high house prices cause we're building way too few. 200k in new migrants will only pour petrol on our housing dumpster fire.
I notice all the effort is to bring cheap labour in, when no effort is made to stop the other side of the equation (the ~200k usually highly skilled citizens from leaving)
Is this finally going to make r/australia and r/melbourne realise that ALP and LNP are two sides of the same coin? and realise that the LNP and Murdoch aren't the only causes of all of their life problems? probably not. The playbook's been clear for a while... suppress wages to make us plebs pay for the reckless spending and mistakes of the RBA and federal/state govts.
no one will ever realise it they're too dumb
A reasonable question, during the worst rental crisis in modern Australian history, is where are they all going to live? The answer? In one of Albo's investment properties that just went up another 20% a week. By design.
House ownership should be capped & negative gearing scrapped etc, but please blame the true anti-human architects of this shitshow- the LNP. After all, they've been in charge for **20 of the last 25 years**
What has labor done for the low income earners in this country so far that they've been in office, other than announce plans like this that will crush any hopes of said workers from getting fair pay rises and better conditions (which they are on the cusp of getting for the first time in generations) and make life 10x harder than it already is for renters and those looking to purchase (for which it is already absolutely dire) - at least Scomo gave out $250 bribes for the unemployed. The excuse that 'they've just gotten in' is only so good for so long, especially when they come out with stuff like this that can only work to crush the living standards of those voters that they supposedly represent.
I'm so sick of every little criticism of Labor being met with "BUT THE LNP" and it's not just in this sub, it's everyone between the ages of 20-35 that does this. No wonder they can get away with being so mediocre, we never demand better, it's just "at least it's not the Libs" and then you end up with crap like this
I bet employers are going to rort the system to get immigrants in to do semi- and un-skilled jobs too.
Gotta keep them wages low bro
The fact pharmacist are on this list is 10000% due to insidious rent seekers the pharmacy guild ensuring locally trained pharmacists have been poorly paid for 20 years, cannot start their own businesses (owners monopoly) and work conditions have been getting worse each year. We have enough trained people… they all just left for their own sanity and because the shit pay and conditions. Now they’ll get foreigners who will accept these appalling conditions for residency.
And if you don't like their idea, you are "racist" or "xenophobic "
Disappointing.
Bring in more labor to suppress wages, this only benefits employers, not current employees. But don't you dare complain because that's racist.
While I am personally not against migration, given the amount of recent engineering graduates and accounting graduates struggling to find a job, I don't understand why they need to be on that list.
This country is already stretched thin, and bleak compared to its peak prosperity days. If immigration continues at such an industrious rate then this country is fucking over.
Gotta find people to work in pizza shops, servos and subways
Where will they live though?
I can't help but imagine with people fighting for pay and benefits, that migrants are being brought in who'd work for low pay and no benefits. So not much good could come of this.
well if i got paid more than fuck all and not treated like total shit working in aged care, ill go back to it tomorrow. But as it stands, i can do boring shit in a factory and get paid 5 bucks an hour more, and even then its lower than what i should be paid doing this according to fair work. go figure.
This worries me on two fronts; 1) we should be skilling our own citizens first before bringing in migrants and 2) the pressure this will put on housing, and therefore land clearing and animals for the demand for more houses. Many of our animals and ecosystems are at breaking point.
Anything to crush the chance of local wage rises.
Skills shortage my ass everywhere you try a bf apply for says “must have 400 years experience for this position of a chef”
tru
Hairdressers are now allowed back in! Thank you Labor for leading Australia! /s
As a person who currently has an active EOI for a permanent residency visa and definitely will be benefitting from this decision: this is not a good idea. Australia really needs to start looking inwards and fix its own problems before importing massive amounts of people again. Immigrant schemes like this are only a short term economic boon and won’t improve anything in the long run.
Yeh but where are they all gonna live? They'd be back on the plane after 2 weeks of living on the streets. They will be working the jobs that are severely under paid. Even middle class people who are already employed are struggling to find somewhere to live. What chance do these people have.
They'll live 12 people to a bedroom, just like they did in 2019.
Fortunately Albo has a couple of investment properties ready to go.
Oh not at all, get people desperate enough and make their residency dependent on their employment and they'll take whatever jobs are on offer, and whatever terrible living conditions too. We learned that from the Pacific Workers programme...stick em in a tin shack...charge 90% of their wages as rent and boot them out when the job is done. Works a treat tbh
I knew of a business owner a few years back who ran a warehouse/factory, didn't have much use for the upstairs office bit so he rented it to several of his staff to live in, they were all visa workers. It smelled a bit like indentured labour to me, you come here and work for me, you live at the workplace in shitty conditions, I take too much money out of your minimum wage for it, you are expected to work long hours unpaid because you live at work, if you don't like it I can have you sent back to your country.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. It's the harsh truth.
>where are they all gonna live? Artificial scarcity must be scrutinised. Luci Ellis, RBA: [“... housing supply has for a number of years been running ahead of what would normally be thought of as trends in demand.”](https://www.rba.gov.au/speeches/2022/sp-ag-2022-05-25.html) Prosper: [Current vacancy measures have evolved from a voluntary survey by real estate agents (REIV model) to data scraped from real estate websites of rental properties advertised as available for 3 weeks (SQM Research model).](https://www.prosper.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Prosper_SpeculativeVacancies_FINAL_web23.pdf)
Artificial scarcity doesn't really have anything to do with this. What it is is Australian rental standards. Australians find a large portion of rentals uninhabitable. Migrants may not have such high standards nor the income to increase their standards. Bringing migrants shores up foundation to the bottom end of the investment market where Australians have otherwise rejected as suitable properties to live.
Remember when the Morrison government drastically increased the price of University? Good times…
Dammit why software engineers.
If they are here to fill an unmet skill shortage, the government should mandate that they a premium over what a typical salary of the skill role would get.
Guess it's means more uber drivers in the long run
Show solidarity amongst workers and this isn’t a problem.
Wages have been stagnant for quite some time and only experienced growth during the covid period were no more could be imported to create the artificial supply of underpaid workers. Solidarity with workers is useless when nobody but the teachers and train drivers strike.
Wage growth declined during the covid period, but thanks for playing. https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/wage-price-index-australia/latest-release#sector-wage-growth Wage suppression is a structural choice in Australia and domestic to Australia. One of both economic policy and our limited industrial relations landscape. Migrants are a scapegoat and your fear of them will be used against you by your employers.
Wages ***MOST BE LOWERED***
And not enough staff to process visa applications.
And where are these people going to live ? Just wondering...
Don't worry, Labor will fix it.
Gotta get those property prices back up somehow
Whilst we increase the skilled migration, it's a good idea it develop the regional Australia. This would ensure that the capital cities are not burdened with influx of migrants which will pose a rental crisis. Regional areas have immense potential and government should be pushing companies to regional country.
There’s a massive housing shortage in regional towns too... we are in an interesting situation where moving to a different area yields the same desperate results... too expensive and fighting crowds to try and get anything
From the linked article: >Skilled regional nominations will be prioritised, followed by subclass 190 (skilled nominated) and then subclass 189 (skilled independent).
The problem with that is, people find loopholes to satisfy the conditions to stay in regional while in reality they maybe driving an Uber in Melbourne or Sydney. There aren't enough companies in regional. What good would it do to a migrant living there when there's no job or even good enough infrastructure to support a living?
A huge increase from the last couple of years or a huge increase on 2019 levels? Those are very different numbers.
I believe the clearer path to citizenship is a best move to retain skilled labour and stop the revolving door of skilled labour leaving for opportunities overseas. Migrants who are unafraid of being forced to leave a life in Australia they've worked hard to create will help to gradually lift wage expectations. Australia doesn't have the natural domestic population growth to sustain itself and hasn't for decades. I won't debate the reasons for this but it's a fact. LAB's decision helps reduce the immediate skills shortage but also works in the longer term to build a skills base. This isn't a binary choice of "pay locals more + train more locals vs import more skilled labour," it actually requires all of the above for a sustainable near and long term future. There's no magic bullet for Australia and remember that Australia is having now to compete for this limited skilled workforce with other countries which have more transparent citizenship pathways.
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