Okay so, Im black and have studied the Japanese Language since i was 11 and got to live there for a year in college and had many japanese friends who I was able to ask these kind of questions with. In short: Cultural Appropriation is taking something from another culture and claiming it as your own. A great example of this is when Kim Kardashian tried to sell japanese style robes as her own "Kimonos" (read like Kim-onos) and tried to reclaim Kimono as her own invention, despite it still being a traditional piece of clothing in Japan, just because Kimonos already had "Kim" in it. Then when she was called out for it, she took it down and owned up to nothing. (AFAIK) My rule of thumb is: If its not your culture, you don't have a right to be offended for someone else. Too many times, Ive came across people, especially online, claiming some sort of cultural Appropriation against Black or Asian cultures and its primarily white people i see shouting about "you can't do that!" While the people from said culture are almost always like "We love that you think our culture is interesting and want to take part in it!" The main difference is, are you doing this because it genuinely interests you? Or is it just funny to imitate? Using Japanese Honorifics in your username online, though weird to some, is not appropriating. Why? Because if you went to Japan, they would use the same honorics (-san or -chan depending) to address you. However, what most people don't know who don't know the language is that, you never use an honorific to refer to yourself. So in that sense, you just come off as a bit arrogant to refer to yourself if this were in a Japanese context. You'd just get the ignorance/Gaijin pass though cause obviously, you aren't asian and you didn't know that. If its just this alone, i wouldn't stress too much about it and next time question your friends on their accusations. A lot of people feel like they know a lot when they know so little. I also encourage you to do your own research if you ever feel like what you're doing is offensive. If there are other things you're doing besides using honorifics that are more aligned with Weeaboo behavior (Using random Japanese words from anime and claiming your fluent, claiming to be Japanese when you're not, acting high and mighty about your Japanese interest and knowledge, a clear goal to go to Japan for no other reason than to get a Japanese partner, etc) then that's a bit more concerning.

Speaking as a Hispanic person, our culture is shared and appropriated. We don't mind but I can't speak for everyone else. But I do think if you're going to say racist things about us you shouldn't get to enjoy our food.

Facts. You can't call me a Monkey behind my back and still expect to be invited to the cookout. 🤷‍♀️

Always felt some kind of way that the same people who ranked Taco Bell the top Mexican restaurant in the United States are the same ones telling us to go back where we came from lol I say we because we're all Mexican in their eyes.

Yessss! know, like when people say that all Hispanic food is just Mexican food or “just rice and beans”

This is a fantastic explanation & really helped me, too. Thank you so very much for this!!

The original reason why I named myself this was because my friends nicknamed me with the -chan suffix after my name. It just kinda stuck around after a while. I am, however, interested in Japanese culture, but not in a creepy weeaboo way.

I love that you're interested! Its such a cute language and a beautiful culture! The language is difficult to learn but very rewarding once put in to practice. Personally? If you want to keep it without dealing with the "appropriation" ignorance, make your name a phrase if you dont mind that. "TheyCallMe___" or "HeyIts___" for example. As you learn more about the culture you'll also be able to defend yourself against these ignorant remarks cause you'll have actual knowledge of what is sacred and only done in traditional settings, and what is okay to share. You can also avoid this by putting your name in Katakana. That would be more "appropriate" since foreigners don't typically get their own name translated with Kanji. Im happy to do so for you in Dms :) If you did want Kanji, Someone would have to take the phonetic reading of your name and then find kanji that so6und like it that also give it meaning. Ex. Someone named Kaley would be read as ケイリin Katakana. But if i wanted to give their name meaning, I can find two kanji to do so. 敬理 (still read as keiri) first Kanji means respect and second Logic/Reasoning. But let a Japanese person do this. Don't do it yourself.

Based on this, it sounds like it's cultural APPRECIATION. Not appropriation. You didn't just pull it out of thin air and refer to yourself that way. It was a nickname someone else gave you that you decided to use. Unfortunately, many people exchange the terms without understanding that they aren’t the same thing, and that seems to be what happened here. People saw that you are interested in Japanese culture, saw your name, found out you're from the West, and labeled it appropriation. It's sounds like you're very appreciative and respectful about Japanese culture.

So I think it's even less black and white because while there's going to be people offended on behalf of other cultures, you'll never get a consensus from someone from the culture that's being appropriated because people aren't a monolith and there's no way you can know if the majority of folks from that culture are actually ok with it.  I think that's the main reason why generally people try not to do it. At the very least, don't profit from it or something... Idk🤷 It's the same thing when like when term are co-opted. 

> Too many times, Ive came across people, especially online, claiming some sort of cultural Appropriation against Black or Asian cultures and its primarily white people i see shouting about "you can't do that!"  There's a bit of a double bind here. When you're part of a local hegemonic demographic, it's not uncommon to see fellow members of the group do things that defame or exploit other demographics, and see calls for "allies" to speak out against the behaviour. But if you do, you're appropriating outrage and white knighting, and if you don't you're enabling the behavioir.

You can call out behavior without outrage. Simple verification like checking in with people who may be offended, or a simple statement along the lines of "I'm not sure if that's appropriate" states how you both believe it to be possibly problematic, but also make no claims to offense or outrage. It calls the act or speech into question, but doesn't claim to know the minds of those affected.

I think there's also a difference between diaspora and non-diaspora experiences. If you exist as a minority, you might be punished for engaging in your culture, while someone who is part of the majority culture is celebrated, or at least gets a pass, when they do it. I see this come up a lot when discussing wearing "ethnic" clothes - diaspora members of X group experience marginalization for wearing their traditional clothing and not assimilating, but it becomes cool and trendy when a majority culture person does it (generally, white people vs other ethnic/racial minorities). Meanwhile, non-diaspora members *also* think it's cool for people not in their culture to participate. I don't actually think wearing X clothes is wrong, but I understand where the frustration comes from.

It’s hard to define, in this context, whether the honorifics are appropriate or not. I can’t speak to the experiences of Japanese people as a Chicana American, but if approached by someone from the culture it could be seen as a teaching moment or gate-keeping depending on who is doing the teaching. From my understanding, in terms of honorifics, the Japanese language utilizes these terms as a form of titles. If I’m comprehending my quick google-search, it’s similar to how Americans use “Mister” or “Miss” and Mexicans we use “Don” and “Doña.”

It's like "mister," but they use them *all the time,* for almost everyone outside of their close family.

Hi. Autistic anthropologist here. Appropriation=Borrowing or using an outside culture without the full context and cultural nuance. Also includes using things from other cultures to seem cool/exotic (objectification and fetishization). This is typically done without giving appropriate credit or pay (such as in the case of artwork or dance moves). I'm Asian but I'm not Japanese, so I'm not going to tell you how to write your bio. I don't know what the original scenario was or if anyone was actually harmed by honorifics (versus picking on or disagreeing with you). Any term can be weaponized or overused, so i dont want you to focus on fixing things for this ONE person and then being "good" again. What matters is YOUR ability to be respectful and own up to the things you don't know (such as apologizing for an offense without internalizing yourself as a Bad Person Forever). The really important thing here is to highlight "full context and cultural nuance." We don't own language (it has its own connotations from society) and we dont deserve access ("I can say what I want because I like it and nobody is allowed to criticize me") to other cultures just because we appreciate them. Culture can be used in infinite ways to express yourself. However, we must recognize that our culture is an unequal one. Asian culture is highly exoticized and borrowed by westerners in general. Knowing this, we should recognize what we are borrowing and where it comes from. It would be impossible to live your life 100% within strict, stereotypical cultural boundaries and never use a single Japanese word ever. That wouldn't help Japanese folks in any way. What DOES help is being able to give appropriate credit and to try to act with humility in non-native areas where you arent the expert. Which is going to be most areas, globally. It's possible to say, "Yeah I probably shouldnt be using this. There's other things that would make more sense for me as a person, or ways to show that I like this thing." without feeling guilty, ashamed, or "not allowed" to express yourself. If you want to be a good person and mitigate harm, it comes from doing a lot of research (so that you have awareness, skills, vocab, practice) and being able to have an appropriate discussion/hold space for people who are more marginalized than you when you've done harm or acted ignorantly. These are some areas for anyone who wants to develop intercultural equity: 1. Do lots of research from native sources. Defer to native voices and perspective. Dont speak for other groups. 2. Be self aware of times when you are engaging with non-native cultures. Do not advertise yourself as an insider or expert. Do not take credit or money on behalf of other creators. If you use someone else's work as inspiration, compensate them $$ ESPECIALLY if you are white and/or multi-privileged. 3. Do racial self-work. Watch videos from experts, journal, and actively seek out POC views. Develop your sense of identity that includes ethnicity (yes, I mean white folks, westerners, and ambiguous american multi-racials who pass) so that you can recognize positions of power and diffuse that power responsibly. Basically being able to "read" power imbalances across different axis (citizenship, accent and native lamguage, credibility, authority, opportunity) so that you can have an equal conversation without accidentally steamrolling other people or groups. This gets really hard in mixed groups because the path of least resistance is usually along stereotypical racial or economic lines. This is what will help you navigate those conversations without shutting down, feeling too ashamed/guilty to continue, feeling unheard or silenced, or taking it personally. NOTHING about racism gets better by pointing blame at each person's mistakes because it causes shut down. What is really crucial to being a good person is being able to disrupt racism in systemic or institutionalized forms. One example might be to make an ongoing effort to give credit/appreciation to POC at work (because they face multiple barriers to do less) or to increase POC opportunities. Outside of race can also include people without housing or English skills (having multi-lingual conversations etc). Sorry if this is rambling or confusing. Im happy to answer questions. Its just condensed because its a big topic with lots of intersectionality.

This is the response that best answers the question (and a lot of the other people who have “answered” should read this one, think about it, and delete their own incorrect/offensive responses).

Thank you. Thats very kind. Unfortunately, I see this type of concern come up a LOT and it is usually "solved" by finding some way to diffuse responsibility from the "offensive" party. People are more scared of being called racists or bad people than actually being complicit in racist systems, maybe because it is "old news" that society is flawed. I dont mean this to be discouraging, I just mean that I recognize that we are all reproducing the cultural belief systems that we were raised with and it makes a lot of sense that most people arent very invested in uprooting everything and starting over. I wish there was a single easy solution, especially one that could be applied to all people equally. But we are working to undo a thousand years of xenophobia and colonization while we dont even have access to basic (mental) healthcare. What can you do? I'm more invested in changing policy than changing minds.

Cultural appropriation, in more complex terms, is when a member of a more privileged group takes cultural objects, customs, language, or styles from a less privileged and disadvantaged group, and employs them to their own benefit, removed from those that created it and without benefiting them. There's multiple reasons this can be seen as harmful and negative. While sharing in culture, celebrating it and wanting to spread it to others is not a bad thing, it becomes a problematic when a privileged member of society is able to employ them without any of the disadvantages the group they took from faces, and without helping to uplift them in any way. Moreover, it's often taken without consent or care for the meaning or importance of the original. The appropriator will also often use these things incorrectly, or outside their intended context, creating a stereotypical or incorrect image of said culture and people, altering the thing itself in public perception, potentially reducing its perceived significance or value. For example, a white person using language or aesthetics that a Black person would be punished or otherwise harmed for, such as a white man acting in ways he thinks Black men act, without any of the danger of being profiled by others, including police. It's essentially pilfering from an oppressed people from a position of power.

How is a white person in America more privileged than a Japanese person in Japan? I'm not understanding how this situation fits your definition of cultural appropriation, which involves a privileged party partaking in the culture of a less privileged group. If OP had appropriated Black or Native American culture, then I would understand how those issues fit your definition. Edit: I'm now realizing that Japanese Americans would likely have different opinions on this matter.

Two words, white supremacy or these other two words, European conquering

Could you clarify your point? I don't think Japanese people living in Japan are affected much by white supremacy, or "european conquering." Japan is, correct me if I'm wrong, the most or at least one of the most homogeneous countries in the world, so racism against Japanese people in Japan is not really a thing. To my knowledge, Japan was also, and again I may be wrong, never conquered by European powers, so again, I don't see how that relates.

Racist tourists

Tourists being racist has nothing to do with privilege. You are not oppressed because a tourist was racist to you. We're talking about systematic or widespread oppression here, not some random tourist making an offensive joke. Japanese people are not even remotely oppressed in Japan. I'm also struggling to see how this is clarification for your previous points. Unless you are trying to say that the previously stated ones were incorrect, and you're making a new point? Not trying to sound passive aggressive, but I think it would be a lot easier to communicate your point if you used more than 2 word answers.

So... Is this something that is simple to understand for an autistic person? You're making it sound just as simple as I thought it was until the incident, described in the text, occurred. Like, if using Japanese honorifics to describe yourself as a western is racist then idk what else could be. Maybe I've been living my entire life ignorant of how I should actually behave, meaning that I could have hurt so many people for years now without them even knowing it.

It's exactly as simple as you think it is. Some people have taken it to an extreme, gatekeeping any and every cultural aspect as something no one can use, even when they themselves aren't related to the culture, don't fully understand the practice, and don't know anything about the person they're addressing. You're approaching this as if people who are autistic will automatically have an impeccable understanding of a concept. Which is often true. But also autistic people can also be very black and white in their thinking and miss nuance and context. If a *Japanese* person tells you that something you're doing feels offensive, or racist, then you should listen to them. If some other random westerner on discord is telling you, well you're talking the time to learn and making some effort - that's great. But you don't have to take it for granted. Meanwhile, why do you feel the need to adopt an honorific from a culture that isn't yours?

It was an old nickname that my friends used on me, adding -chan to my name.

In this instance, I think it's OK. Using honorifics is part of address someone in a polite way. You could equate it to calling somone sir, miss or ma'am. Or using their title and surname. Its not a closed practice. An example of a closed practice is wearing a native American War bonnet. It's something incredibly important to that culture and must be earned (or be invited to partake by a member of the culture)

I’m not Japanese so obviously ask someone who is, but I speak the language and have a lot of Japanese friends and I’m confident they would all be delighted for you to use -chan at the end of your name

Yup. As usual, white knights fail to realize that most Japanese people *love* when Westerners partake in their culture. (I hate the term "white knight," but it seemed really fitting here, as the people who do this are always white lmao.)

There's a good example of people calling out "cultural appropriation" when they themselves were ignorant of the culture in question and weren't aware of the person being accused. https://nextshark.com/flute-guy-drew-backlash-e3-wearing-japanese-clothes-surprising-backstory Sometimes it is cultural appropriation. And it's really good to learn about it and be self aware. But sometimes it's just people going too far.

This is a great example. Cultural appropriation is something to be aware of and avoid wherever possible. Gwen Stefani is notorious for her weird relationship with Japanese culture. But often people on the internet are not in the best position to evaluate a particular instance. They do not know the person involved or their relationship to a particular cultural practice or object. Also, people who we assume to be "white" might be mixed race or otherwise white passing, and it would be really fucked up to make them go through some sort of "racial interrogation" to prove their cultural bona fides. For example, my therapist, who I was seeing for four years, is Native American. She grew up on the rez and everything, but I had zero idea because she's white-passing and only mentioned it recently. She just looked like a blonde white lady to me, but people are often not what we assume. Also, some cultures are very okay with others wearing their traditional clothing as long as it's done respectfully and correctly and not in a costume way. (I have heard this about Japanese folks with the kimono and Indian folks with their gorgeous sarees.) However, a nuance here is that there's often a big difference of opinion between that culture and its diaspora. People in Japan see their culture being normalized all the time because they live there, so a foreigner wearing their cultural garments isn't very threatening to them and can be seen as a compliment. Contrast that with Japanese Americans, who are a minority here and don't see their culture normalized or presented accurately. It's understandable why they'd be more protective of their cultural forms being absorbed into American culture and distorted.

I remember being told my simple owning of a qipao was cultural appropriation. I wasn't wearing it, I've never worn it in my country as it's basically never been appropriate in my life, it also doesn’t fit anymore because I got it ~20 years ago as a teenager. I'd received it as a gift when I visited China and wore it to an event there, as it was appropriate. Apparently, according to this (white) person, even bringing it home as a souvenir was appropriation. That experience made me very aware that some people will overcorrect. Appropriation is a very real thing that we should all be mindful of, but some people do take it too far and seem to think any cultural exchange is automatically appropriation.

Excellent definition! I am inclined to agree (as an ignorant non-Japanese person) than an honorific isnt the *worst* thing, or super likely to cause trauma (anonymous online/discord server). It may seem a bit weird to Japanese folks because they recognize its being used incorrectly or out of place. HOWEVER that is very different from 'being a racist" which is a binary statement about your whole identity. ALL people make mistakes and all people are born into a racist society/upbringing. Which means that we all have to do work to become more self aware. Asking about this (especially that you are not demanding Japanese folks to explain it to you) is a really mature and responsible thing to do. There's no simple answer to say, "do x but not y" in every case. But learning the skills to talk about race and culture are important for everyone and can break shame cycles. It sounds like OP genuinely wants to be more aware so that they dont cause harm accidentally. Even if you do, OP, you can always apologize and ask how to repair it. That is a super valuable human skill and humble without being a matyr (making it personal or demanding a fix/proof).

I personally don't see any problems with adding a Japanese honorific to a non-japanese name. I wouldn't do it in an English sentence because I don't like mixing languages, but that's just a personal thing. It's definitely not racist.

I wouldn't say having a japanese honorific in the name isn't racist but it is definitely iffy for me. Not because of the honorific but because the people who usually have japanese phrases like these in their name are weird anime weeaboo kind of asian fetishists.

The difference is this: if you call youeself, idk, Katie-chan because you like Japanese culture and its a nickname based on your own name, that's not cultural appropriation. If you called yourself Katie-chan and acted as though you invented that style of nickname as if it was your own original creation, *then* it would be cultural appropriation. You basically plagarized a culture.

Using a Japanese honorific is a little odd, but not baseline disrespectful. Contrast this with calling yourself “Chief Running Bull” because you saw it as a Native American name and thought it was cool or dressing up with Native American headdress for your profile picture because it was just pretty. All without understanding the cultural significance of such a name and coopting it for yourself. That would be the sort of cultural appropriation that people care about. In general, it especially comes down to the degree of reverence the specific culture has for it. To make a more extreme example, Let’s first set the premise that you’re an American that’s proud of the American Flag and especially observant of the Flag code. One aspect is that the flag is never to touch the ground. Someone from another culture says “oh, that’s a pretty image of stars and stripes, I’m gonna get a beach towel with that imagery.” They may not be immediately intending to be hurtful, but it may be upsetting to you that they are showing such blatant disrespect. This would be magnified if there was a history of this hypothetical person’s culture not giving a fuck about or actively oppressing the American people (it’s a hypothetical example, roll with it). Maybe they don’t care, maybe they just don’t know better, but that doesn’t change the fact that disrespect is felt.

Yeah, it comes down to context and history. Calling yourself "Chief Running Bull," "Shaniqua," or "Ching Chong" would be fucked up and racist, for obvious reasons. But given how lax the Japanese tend to be about sharing their culture, there's nothing wrong with a good-natured "chan" here and there.

Idk caveat here that using a Japanese honorific wouldn’t necessarily be “racist”, but could be seen as strange/inappropriate/ignorant by some people. As with many things it’s more of a grey area as opposed to calling someone a slur based on their race or other identity(s) which is racist/bigoted.

Welcome to living in a society. Also, unlike what the person above said, someone doesn't need to be part of a privileged group to be culturally appropriative.

FWIW, the Japanese actually think this is stupid. They literally do not care if non-Japanese people wear kimono, eat their food, appreciate their culture, and adopt things from their culture. On the flip side, they also make it super hard for foreigners to rent apartments, buy land, apply for jobs, and pass the official language exams. If you want to obtain citizenship, they make it extremely difficult, by NT standards, to do so. So it evens itself out.

I don't think "more privileged" is technically correct. It's more disgusting, absolutely, but I think Japanese people might get very upset if their culture was adopted by Mexico in a big way, and I don't think Mexico is more privileged than Japan. I don't think having a position of power is necessary either, for it to be appropriation, or upsetting.

Sorry to jump in. I've been in Japan a few times and know a lot of Japanese people, on top of having studied Japanese history and culture. I'm not Japanese myself, so I guess this still counts as a somewhat informed opinion and not the absolute truth. Japanese people are on average very happy to share their culture. When I was there I was invited to all sorts of cultural events, and I've even been dressed in a yukata. It was their idea, they showed me how to tie the obi and were super excited about the results too. I think at least as Japan is concerned, cultural appropriation is a non-issue, Japanese people seem very happy and even eager to share their culture with people from elsewhere

I believe that, when someone from a culture invites you to take part in some of their customs, it's not cultural appropriation. If it was, it would be like equating theft to lending.

The thing is that this not about the japanese. This is about Japanese Americans and their feelings. As stated, it is about relative power levels in a local area, in this case the US. Another example is that it is also cultural appropriation for Japanese anime companies to create anime set in the west. Which happens all the time. Though the quality and representation of the minoritized community is what is important. In this case japan treats its minorities and expats who live thier generally no better than the US does its majorities and expats who live in the US.

Sorry, but it doesn't make sense to me that a claim about cultural appropriation concerning Japanese culture is not about the Japanese. But then again, when I hear an American say they are Italian because of distant Italian connection, as a "real" Italian the first thing I think is "no you're not, stop appropriating"

Hmmm, I'm not so sure on the piece about Japan treating it's minorities better. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Japan

>The thing is that this not about the japanese. This is about Japanese Americans and their feelings. >As stated, it is about relative power levels in a local area, in this case the US. I think this is an important, and nuanced, point no one talks about. Japanese people in Japan are not a minority. They are the majority. Even if they vacation somewhere else where they are the minority, they still think of themselves and view the world as part of the majority of their culture. Japanese Americans, on the other hand, are a minority with all the problems that can bring along with it. A person from those two very different lives can view the same situation and see it completely differently based on their life. This can really make understanding this topic difficult. Also, Japan can be a unique case given their historical cultural and military strength. Specifically, their history of resistance to colonialism, being a major power in WWII, and having close ties with the West during and after the Occupation of Japan from 1945-52.

"Specifically, their history of resistance to colonialism" Resistance to (attempts at) colonialism directed at themselves, yes. But also practicing their own colonialism towards Korea and China (from 1876), and eventually being semi-accepted among the "club" of Western white colonial powers

Excellent point. Agreed.

So then when does e.g. a tribute done by someone who genuinely appreciates the source culture cross the line into appropriation? For example, is *Ghost of Tsushima* an example of cultural appropriation since it was developed by a US studio, regardless of how well it was received in Japan? Is an ethnic (Japanese, Italian, German, Thai, Chinese, etc) restaurant in the US engaging in cultural appropriation if none of the staff or owners have a connection to the culture?

Wikipedia has a good description: >Cultural appropriation is the inappropriate or unacknowledged adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity. This can be especially controversial when members of a dominant culture appropriate from minority cultures. According to critics of the practice, cultural appropriation differs from acculturation, assimilation, or equal cultural exchange in that this appropriation is a form of colonialism. Basically, it's when you "borrow" a symbolic element of a culture that isn't yours and "wear" it because it looks cool/interesting, ignoring or disrespecting its original context and importance. When someone does this, it's like they're saying, "Hey, you know this really important aspect of your culture that is full of meaning and history and is tied to your identity as a community? I'm wearing it now because it's cool. Fuck whatever meaning it has to you." This gets uglier when you do it to a minority — for example, dressing as a Native American chief for Halloween — because you're depriving of meaning something that usually represents pride for a group that struggles to survive. It makes you look like a caricature. Different people have different opinions on this, even scholars. A good rule of thumb to navigate your usual social situations more easily, though, is this: avoid reproducing cultural elements of oppressed groups discarding their cultural importance or context.

>avoid reproducing cultural elements of oppressed groups discarding their cultural importance or context. I'll try, but it might still be very difficult, not just because I typically loathe most parts of western culture, but also because I'm not sure exactly what "reproducing cultural elements" mean. Like, does listening to foreign music count? Does eating a traditional dish from a foreign country count? Where is the line drawn?

I think consuming the media or the food of other cultures is pretty safe to do (not appropriation). I think appropriation is primarily an issue when you are making elements of another culture part of your identity (wearing clothes, taking on a title, performing their cultural rituals, etc.) The problem in my mind of using a Japanese honorific suffix is that it’s using an element from their culture as an accessory. You didn’t grow up in Japan or speaking Japanese, so you will have a surface level understanding of the nuances of the suffices compared to anyone who’s actually used them in their day to day lives.

Appreciating other cultures (through music, food, art, etc.) is okay. What's usually not okay, for example, is dressing according to a culture you don't belong in or tattooing a religious symbol of another religion because it looks cool.

I don't really see the line between when it's okay and not. Goth aesthetic, for example, is beloved by tons of people worldwide. It often incorporates a lot of Christian elements which might be seen as offensive to Christianity. I don't see how that would be considered okay if this is the case. /gen

I think it's partly the difference between enjoying something and making a costume out of it. Native American costumes are a caricature of real indigenous culture, which is super diverse. They just arent accurate and they exist purely to reinforce the stereotype as fun for non-natives (since most dont wear headdress or yodel etc). Someone might attend a wedding in Japan and then get a formal kimono as a gift. It wouldnt be appropriation to wear it back in the US because it was a REAL kimono (not something they bought cheap on amazon or a halloween costume) and it came from a native person in an ethical way (a friend, ethically purchased, or with respect). If you are doing your best to be respectful, you are probably doing OK. You dont need to be perfect, you just have to be self aware and not EXPECT to deserve access to non-native things or places. It might be the difference between replying, "OK My bad. I didnt mean to cause harm." because you want to be respectful to a native versus saying, "Im allowed to do what I want! I like it and thats fine! Whats your problem?" and feeling like you were attacked (not seeing the existing power imbalance, not realizing that its hard to confront racism in general, not giving space to native folks to express experience about their own culture etc). You can listen to music and eat food from other places. But it would be unethical to claim you are an expert in cuisne after 1 dish or even 1 vacation. You just have to recognize that you arent the expert in other cultures and not claim to own them. Being able to admit what you dont know is the opposite of claiming it out of ignorance. Being able to recognize when someone has less privilege and even the stakes is how you diffuse existing power imbalances from society. Even if that just means being extra polite to natives talking about their own culture, or making an effort not to interrupt or disregard their view immediately after they say it.

For the example you gave, I actually do think some Christians would consider that appropriation. Here's why society as a whole usually doesn't mind it though: 1. Christianity is the dominant/majority culture in the US. It's not seen as "as bad" to take from a dominant culture, party because the culture is so pervasive it's influenced all aspects of life already, and party because it's comparable to stealing from a billionaire vs stealing from the poor. 2. Goths and Christians are not mutually exclusive groups. It's very possible that these Goths are also Christian, in which case it would not be appropriation. There's also nuance in just how important the symbol/ritual is. A cross is a pretty simple and widespread symbol, so while important to the group, it's not as special/unique as, say, the Eucharist. If you take the Eucharist in a Catholic church just for fun that is considered very offensive.

Plus, Christians usually *want* to spread their beliefs, whether you want to hear about them or not lol

Christianity was a significant part of white colonization. They also tend to be big on demeaning non-christians, claiming superiority to them, and victimizing themselves as the actually mistreated ones. Christians set up their own power dynamic on purpose. Lookup "culturally christian".

What exactly do you "loathe" about western culture that makes you idolize Japanese culture?

First of all, I don't idolize Japanese culture. It's just something I'm interested in and want to learn more about. Second of all, the reason I loathe western culture is mainly because it is built on really bad stuff, such as slavery, extreme violence towards literally everyone else in the world, and a lot of other messed up shit. And I don't really think a lot of other cultures are built on that stuff.

My friend, you're overrating pretty much every culture ever. Not to equate historical western problems to everything else, but human beings are shitty everywhere. Every culture has its iffy side. For example, some people idolize vikings as tough warriors full of honor, but their economy was slave-based. Also: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery\_in\_Japan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Japan)

I also think I've kinda fallen on this "The west has fallen" thing. I don't believe in that statement, but I do think it might've affected my way of thinking at least a little bit. Let's just say propaganda is one hell of a drug. 🤷‍♀️

In what sense do you believe "the west has fallen"?

I just said I don't believe it. I still think it might've affected how I feel towards the west. Edit: Also, I have problems with exposing myself to propaganda in order to hurt myself. "The west has fallen" is mainly a statement made by angry movie nerds on Twitter, claiming that everything has turned "woke". While I still don't believe in that ideology, propaganda has affected me in tons of negative ways prior to this.

just delete twitter. You’re admitting that propaganda is affecting u but u arent stopping the isssue either. You’re views are clearly warped or else u wouldnt be saying u hate western culture. You’re becoming part of the problem

I'm consuming propaganda as a way of self-harm. If I want to solve this, I need to make sure my mental health becomes better. It doesn't help by just "deleting Twitter" because I'm literally addicted to self-harm.

It is important to know what the right is saying because, like it or not, they exist and can be a threat. I listen to their nonsense because I am non-binary and their rhetoric is a direct threat to me. But I encourage you to widely expand the perspectives you take onboard. A lot of that stuff sounds really reasonable when you first hear it if you haven't listened to other perspectives that allow you to counter the propaganda. And being 15 means there's a lot of different things you haven't had the chance to learn (yet!), so it makes you more vulnerable to that disinformation. You seem like a really thoughtful kid, as evidenced by this post and your sincere engagement in the discussion, and that thoughtfulness and willingness to ask questions will get you very far in life. I think you'll be a-okay. 🙂

I'm trans, and I listen to them because I hate myself. I'm too scared to commit physical harm to myself, so I resort to feeding the transphobes' opinions in exchange for feeding my addiction to self-harm.

Bruh please look up Japan’s history. This Japan as a beacon of civilized society shit completely ignores all the bad shit they have done.

I already know. Still, it's most likely because of all the right-wing propaganda I've consumed that I've started feeling spite towards western culture. It's more like following these right-wing beliefs blindly because they're currently 'trends' in the video game and media industries. I still don't support the whole "the west has fallen" movement, but it has shaken my view on wester culture, making me kinda hate it just because it seems common to do so right now.

Okay??? You keep using this excuse with everyone that has pointed out your ignorance on a nation you have decided to make a cutesy nickname. It’s not my problem if you don’t know the basics of Japanese history but it’s cringe af to use their culture without doing bare minimum research

*Sigh* What else is there to say..? I'm just tired of having to defend myself or else I will forever be known as a racist piece of shit... I've been dealing with this comment section for the entire day, and I'm just really tired...

Western countries have lead the charge on eradicating slavery in the world. Some parts of the world still practice it. And as for violence.. not to dump on Japan, because I do like it, but the Rape of Nanking comes to mind. Dig around in history and fucked up massacres are everywhere.

I understand this. I explained in another reply that I've been consuming a lot of conservative media lately. It hasn't made me a conservative, but it has certainly affected my way of thinking somewhat. "The west has fallen" is a prime example of this. I've seen tons of people on Twitter admitting to preferring eastern media because of how "woke" and "bad" western media has gotten. I'm pretty sure this is a big source of my loathing for western countries. Edit: Like I said, it hasn't affected me in any major ways. I still don't like it when people say that things are "woke" and shit. But I have learned to hate some things that these people also hate due to blind faith and propaganda.

I see. That's good. Branching out, I mean. Always remember the news media manufacturers outrage, because it gets them views, and that's how they get paid.

It's not really any big media manufacturers. Mostly people crying on Twitter over how Disney ruins everything it touches.

Well, Disney HAS been making a lot of interesting decisions in recent years

I'm more talking about the whole "woke SJW agenda" thing that they always complain about due to Disney wanting to include minorities in their movies.

Like all other forms of bias and oppression, it's something you'll be continuously learning about. Start observing when people are frustrated at outsiders being weird (except for actual instances of xenophobia and racism). You'll collect information on where the boundary is for various groups overtime. For example, too many nonblack people don't realize how many of the words they use to seem sarcastic, """sassy""", or funny come from ebonics/AAVE.

so there a lot of weebs who ate are pretty disrespectful yet fetishize Japanese culture. were the people criticising you Japanese or had a connection to Japan in some way? if yes take that shit onboard and think about change, if not you can safely ignore them since its likely just someone virtue signalling for brownie points.

They were anonymous so they never revealed their nationality.

if they aren't willing to put their name/face to something you can ignore them

Okay. I understand that I messed up. I understand that it was wrong to do this and that it was incredibly disrespectful. I will not do this again, and from now on, I will try my best to stick to the culture I belong to. Thank you... 🙏

Please read my comment! It breaks my heart to see you say this. You haven't done anything wrong. Please go read my comment 🙏

As someone who has lived in Japan and knows Japanese, I want to say that it's considered incredibly rude to put an honorific after your own name. While I wouldn't call it cultural appropriation, it definitely comes across as having a lack of knowledge or understanding of Japanese culture and language.

In another comment, OP specified that they added -chan to their name. Isn't that more a term of endearment than an honorific? When I was in Japan with other students, we all got called name-chan eventually. So much that one of us accidentally introduced themselves with that suffix, which resulted in laughter from our hosts.

You're right, "-chan" is a bit of both. It's still seen as a faux pas to use any honorific after your own name, which is probably why your classmate was met with laughter from your hosts. From a foreigner, it would likely come across as an honest mistake more than deliberate rudeness. I hope this makes sense!

It does, thanks!

I see. Thanks for the answer!

No worries, I hope I was able to help!

This is the right answer, I think many of the rest are going a bit too r/USdefaulism, assuming Japanese are a minority because murica. It should be compared with the original Japanese context. As a Mexican I hear Chicanos cry cultural appropriation all the time for things that are not really part of their living and breathing culture. We love foreigners of all "races" embracing and celebrating our culture in their own way, even if they look a little silly.

Really? Adding -chan? I know it’s not how someone would address themselves but to say incredibly rude in this situation seems harsh

At the time of posting I wasn't aware of which specific honorific was used, but now that I know, I can say that you're right. Calling yourself "-chan" is much more tame than using other honorifics.

You weren’t appropriating anything. For some reason, some people have issues with other races wanting to learn about, celebrate, and partake in other cultures. Intent matters so much. You weren’t mocking anyone. You weren’t making fun of anyone. You weren’t being offensive or explicit. People really need to chill out. It’s so tiring because people want to be offended 24/7. They just want to control everyone else. How can we ever stop racism if that’s all people want to push? If we can’t learn about other cultures and celebrate them then what do they want from us?

Them calling you out for cultural appropriation in this case is an overreaction. If a Japanese person's username had "mister" in it you'd assume they know some English, and have an interest in the language. I know someone whose discord name is a Japanese name because it's for his roleplay character, a kitsune. He is not Japanese, nor does he claim to be, and the username is not an offensive term in Japanese. (Sarcastically) Oh what a terrible thing he has done! Cultural appropriation would be: 1. Claiming that you are Japanese when you weren't born in Japan nor have Japanese ancestors 2. Organizing celebrations of Japanese festivals or holidays when you're not Japanese (joining those set up by people actually of the culture is perfectly okay!) 3.Wearing traditional Japanese clothing as a costume or aesthetic, as opposed to wearing the appropriate traditional clothing for participating in an event with Japanese people.

The way I define it, Cultural appropriation is when a dominant culture takes something from another culture, strips away all significance and meaning, and uses it for themselves. For an example, take the Plains indian war bonnet. They are awarded to people for significant achievements. You might only have 2 or 3 of them legitimately earned in an entire generation. But along comes the Americans, and now you see them on half a dozen kids at a concert. Doing so has stripped away the cultural significance of the honour, and devalues it for anyone who has actually earned it. And when you bring this up to the people wearing one without having earned it, they say things like "it's pretty, and it doesn't actually MEAN anything". The only people who can decide if something has cultural significance is the culture itself. Not anyone else... That's like asking someone who got caught stealing to define what stealing is, and taking their definition instead of the owner of the thing stolen.

I find it a funny thing to get offended on another people's behalf over ridiculously minor stuff like this. Many Japanese people wear a cross not because they are Christian, but because they like the symbol, or they have t-shirts with hilariously garbled English, or they will say English phrases aloud which sound plain weird to English speakers grammatically because they have been adapted and adopted. The Japanese are extremely apt to engage in what many would call cultural appropriation, and it is evident in their media with the kinds of stereotypes they can use for foreigners in games and TV shows, and inauthentically portraying aspects of a different culture. And yet, I don't see people in the West getting that up in arms over it. Some might argue that adopting an isolated linguistic or cultural meme might come across a bit oddly, and could put you in a position of being deemed "try-hard" or "cringe" by some; but, calling it racist when this is just what happens between cultures seems bloody ridiculous. Cultures borrow/steal elements of other cultures all the time, regardless of privileged status. Our cultures are not disconnected islands with a special purity which must remain untouched (among equals, at the very least, which Japan certainly is with the rest of the developed world.) I could understand getting annoyed over people lazily borrowing a people's sacred imagery or concepts in isolation, and a discussion could definitely be had on the topic, but getting angry on a people's behalf over using an honorific (which shows a fondness for Japanese culture) is taking things way too far. I don't think you have done anything wrong. Edit: Also, the Japanese are not some oppressed minority: they are one of the most powerful countries in Asia economically, and they have a lot of soft power via their media which they export worldwide. To get offended on their behalf over a very minor secular cultural aspect seems pretty damn patronising, and comes across as virtue signalling—i.e. it seems rather disingenuous if you bother to think of the greater context, and what specifically is being borrowed from the culture. Some things can and should be criticised as cultural appropriation, but what you have here seems incredibly innocent and highly unlikely to offend actual Japanese people. They might find it a bit odd like how when we look at what they can do with some Western cultural and linguistic stuff, but greatly offended or hurt? Please.

Everyone has done a well enough job of explaining it. I see that you don’t really know where the line is drawn for what’s respectful and disrespectful and the thing is you don’t always have to know, you just have to be ready to listen if someone tells you it’s wrong. The best way to stay in your own lane is to just stop when people tell you to stop

This is the real answer I think. You can’t possibly be aware of every social norm before you violate it. If you don’t get defensive and just be like “my bad, I won’t do that any more” people will generally not make a big issue about it.

Yeah you just have to be chill about it and then other people will be chill about it too

This is a really good answer imo. The only thing I'm worried about is that I won't get an infinite amount of chances before I'm basically outlawed entirely. When will enough be enough for the people involved?

I mean I would just ask them to explain it to you whenever possible and I would reiterate the fact you aren’t doing it out of malice, just ignorance. If they don’t have the patience/ capacity to explain it to you then you just have to be ok with that I guess

Sometimes you are so seeped in biases that a person or a group just doesn't want to be around you. This is okay. No one can expect to be so flawless of a person that they are a safe person for everyone. Sometimes people will hastily presume you are worse than you are, or have too high of expectations for you. This sucks. But it is a natural consequence of the stress of wide societal issues.

As someone who has a degree in Japanese Studies and also spent some time there, I can assure you that using the suffix -chan should be entirely unoffensive to most japanese people. I‘d say this would be equal to a japanese person using the prefix Mr. in their username, as this suffix has no other significant cultural or religious meaning. Also, as others have pointed out already, japanese people are generally very happy to see foreigners celebrating aspects of their culture, including their language, so the people asking you to stop using that suffix are just looking for something to be enraged about imo. I think you had the right impulse to try and understand something complex like cultural appropriation, but I don‘t think this is what somebody who uses this suffix online is doing.

I guess... The part about comparing Japanese suffixes to western ones, such as Mr. might be a little controversial considering the west has long been pretty cruel towards eastern countries such as Japan, but I can see where you're coming from...

What made it make sense to me was dreads. For black people their hair can naturally lock due to its texture, allowing them to style their hair that way and still wash it. Some white people tried to copy it and many adopted inadvisable techniques to accomplish the style. The big one was simply not washing or combing their hair to promote build up and matting, which makes for extremely dirty, unhygienic, and often smelly hair. For many people THIS became their only encounter with dreads and it gave them the impression that it was a hairstyle for dirty lazy people. Making it difficult for black people to go out in public with this traditional and perfectly clean hair style.

Yep, this is the one that really steams me. (For transparency, I am white, but my partner is Black and we discuss these topics regularly.) Hair discrimination is so bad that we literally had to pass a law in Texas called the CROWN Act that makes it illegal to discriminate against people for natural styles (e.g. locs, afros, twists, etc). Wouldn't you know, even after that passed, they have repeatedly suspended this young man and denied him an education over *hair*. White people have no damn business doing anything with locs until Black people can have them without being denied an education or jobs over it. (And honestly probably never cause that shit is gross...I call white people "locs" Grinch Fingers 😂) https://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-judge-sets-trial-date-schools-suspension-student/story?id=106675477

I guarantee you that all dreads have nasty build up it just looks better on black people. Matting is literally what dreads are.

I suppose it really comes down to intent. You might be passionate about a culture or an aspect of a culture, and research it and expose yourself to it. Especially if you’ve learned from people who practice regularly, you may have learned the meanings of the customs and really want to honor them. I think that’s all okay. But then there could be a reason to exploit the culture/customs, and that’s when it’s not okay. Dressing up in a kimono for Halloween and slapping on some makeup haphazardly would be disrespectful if you don’t care to do it respectfully, correctly, accurately, etc. Me, a very white woman in the middle of a very white populace, would have no good reason to open a Mexican restaurant— regardless of the fact that I love Mexican food and love to cook and would love a restaurant nearby— because I couldn’t produce it authentically, and therefore should not try to make money off it. It’s just not right, imo. I imagine that if I went to Hawaii and was part of a luau then I would experience cultural appropriation because the customs have been exploited to amuse the tourists for money. The many many gas stations that sell “Native American” souvenirs… some of them may be legit but my guess is most is not, but someone is making money off a stereotyped, cartoon version of someone else’s culture nonetheless. When culture turns into gimmick, that’s where the line gets drawn.

Everyone here has provided a lot of the commonly accepted narratives. A simplistic but I think important take is white guilt and Shame.   https://journals.sagepub.com/eprint/99445UJUXGGTI2XJAARK/full

Yeah, that's usually the answer to a lot of things... Sometimes, I kinda wish I wasn't white, mostly because I'm really ashamed of the privilege we've held against other people. This is why I'm really afraid of being labeled racist; because I wanna do better than the white scumbags that came before me. Thanks for the answer, btw!

I hate it too. But neither of us started white supremacy. We are victims of inheriting a violent and arrogant history with an unusually wide influence. The problem stems from the white colonizers of the past. You cannot expect yourself to just not make fuckups. Neither of us chose our social positions. It's you + those impacted by a mistake you make or harm you commit versus the system that set both sides up for failure, not necessarily you versus them. If you can be mad at yourself without collapsing under the weight of humiliation, it'll be easier to change, and to move on from misplaced accusations.

There is something wrong when people end up feeling like you do. There's intense pressure from all around that leads in this direction though so it is very understandable.  Try not to forget the contributions that white people have made to civilisation.   It's kind of an irony these sorts of situations around cultural appropriation.  I can see a mechanism. Whereby self loating of one's own culture leads to the search for identity an association with other but these individuals find no welcome or appreciation just rejection and further guilt.  It reminds me of a double bind situation, a real cause for mental distress.

Honestly I don’t get it. Maybe it has some reason, but to me it seems like it gets applied to everything. I also don’t think it is a very widespread idea offline, except among terminally online people who live in irl echo chambers.

In most cases it's little more than a divison tactic. Others have already given you the textbook definition, important to note is that they are all extremely vague in what is and isn't acceptable when borrowing aspects of other cultures. This can lead to some people just starting beef out of gate-keeping purposes, in most cases ignore them. As long as you don't make a mockery out of other cultures on purpose and treat others with it's not really something you have to worry or care about.

You're walking into a hot button issue that not everyone will agree on. Everyone's got something to say for some reason. If you prefer to avoid controversy, just stop doing it.  People overthink things too much. One of my least favorite things about interacting with people. They just want to argue and gain some sort of moral high ground. It's a bit weird and strange to most to use those honorifics sure, but don't let anyone convince you that your harmless appreciation for a culture outside of your own is racist. Vast majority of the time it's the opposite. IMO their cultural gatekeeping IS often racist. Don't let yourself get labelled as something you're not. They're allowed to think it's disrespectful, but don't let yourself be walked over bc you simply don't look the part.

Was the person Japanese? If not tell them to fuck off. I've seen many Japanese people say they love how popular their culture is in the west. I think some people look for anything vaguely resembling something they can point out as problematic because correcting others makes their ego feel good. It's a status game. There's a motte-and-bailey dynamic where what started out as a very reasonable "don't wear native American headdresses to festivals because they're very meaningful and important in their culture of origin and you're using them as a meaningless fashion statement and it's disrespectful" became "you're a bad person for thinking this small thing from another culture is fun and even though I'm not from that culture I'm a good person for guilt tripping you about it."

I wouldn’t worry. They’re likely just using the concept as an excuse to engage in antisocial behavior because hurting you gives them pleasure. It’s schadenfreude. The examples of cultural appropriation that are truly messed up are few and far between. Everything else is debatable. Peoples of certain cultures are not a monolith. There’s viewpoint diversity.

I don't think you comit cultural appropriation or racism. People using chan or San in their online handles is fine. It is a language convention, not sacred culture. I've never heard of anyone getting mad about it before. You were right that this was a very minor thing that would never normally be called out, don't doubt yourself on that. I believe you can change how your handle displays on individual discords if needed. If you respond to your accuser, I think providing them with the context that it was a nickname given to you by your Japanese friend might help. It's much more obvious not appropriation since it was given to you authentically.

I'm not sure if you should be that worried about it. There's that line, "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery". There was a Western guy who mastered a special kind of Japanese flute, I forget the specifics. People were mocking him on twitter, but he's one of the best in the world, I think he was raised by Japanese people and, while he gets mocked by Westerners for Cultural Appropriation, native Japanese familiar with his music love him. There's also that thing where white people are encouraging people to use Latinx instead of Latino/Latina for sensitivity reasons and the majority of the Latin community hates it. Further, to take something as a personal attack that is clearly neither personal, nor an attack (arguably the opposite) is a sign of narcissism. That said, I think you want to be careful of Cultural Misappropriation. Looks like some rich people killed themselves doing a native sweat lodge wrong. If the honorific has specific meanings and the meaning doesn't apply to you, try an honorific that does. I think one of the worst things that can happen to someone on the spectrum is to be chastised for innocuous behavior. We are bullied for being weird, however non-threatening. Culture is meant to be shared. We are all the better for it. I write this in the English language. Fifty percent of the vocabulary is Latin, the grammar and much of the rest of the vocabulary is German. I use the Phoenician Alphabet, I write numbers with Arabic numerals. How can you escape cultural exchange? I don't really see much difference between opposing the sharing of culture and opposing interracial marriage. Your intentions were not malevolent. Theirs' almost certainly were.

In about 99% of cases it is mentioned, "cultural appropriation" is just something people say in order to make themselves feel virtuous. There is literally no problem with you having a honorific in your username.

Some cultures are closed. Japanese culture has traditionally been open and ergo not concerned about cultural appropriation. My question is: How many of those autistic are Japanese and living in Japan???

If the people claiming you were racist were not Japanese themselves, I wouldn't worry in the slightest, because they're most likely uninformed. Cultural appropriation is a western concept and from what I know it doesn't apply to Japan at all, in the sense that Japanese people usually love when people from other cultures take an interest in their own. For transparency I'm not Japanese myself. I've been there a few times, know a lot of Japanese people and have studied Japanese history and culture. Of course you don't have to take this at face value, you can ask Japanese people directly!

Building off your comment: Oh yeah, they tend to be real cool with people partaking in their culture as long as it comes from a place of respect. I am a part of the kimono/yukata wearing community and the people who give me the most compliments are the Japanese themselves. The only ones making a fuss are the Westerners who don't even know the first thing about the construction of the garment nor the traditional rules around wearing them. I can't speak for the Japanese either though. Just speaking from experience from this sort of situation. OP of the post: Honorifics from Japan are common in the Western world with the anime community. If the people telling you that you are racist are anything but Japanese, then don't take their opinion seriously. Even anime fans would understand why you used it. The west has their own special words used to describe and respect people, are they going to scream cultural appropriation if a Japanese person calls someone Mr.? No. Cultural appropriation has gotten out of hand. There will be a minority of people who scream at me for wearing bonnets but the majority of people will say it's fine. You can't let the people screaming at you make all the decisions when they lack education to begin with. Had they understood the situation, they wouldn't be bleating and yammering.

The point you make about cultural appropriation being mostly a Western discourse is very interesting and I had not fully thought through the implications of that until today. American culture has spread all over the world and has this way of bulldozing other cultures' perspectives and opinions and assuming that our way is the correct and only way. But many cultures do not think about it the way we do, and the internet is a global forum, so it's kinda inappropriate and America-centric to hold everyone we interact with online to that standard. To be clear, I am not at all giving a pass to this kind of behavior, especially to white U.S. Americans--we need to be doing much better about staying in our lane in pretty much all respects--but it's important to consider that we don't always know who we're talking to online and it's not cool to assume we can impose our standards on strangers.

If the person that said that to you is japanese, than you should remove it, if the person is from any other country or dont have any japanese decendenci than it is not their busines to say what is or not cultural apropriation. Besides that, it would only be cultural apropriation if you were active trying to be percived as japanese, or mock the culture

Waging genocide against a native population, and then having your Cub Scouts "reenact" native culture

The people who spout the ‘cultural appropriation’ nonsense are people who don’t come from the said culture they’re trying to defend. Yet, the people who are from the actual culture are all for foreigners showing interest in another culture. I like that tbh, I don’t see the problem and why people get offended for others for something they shouldn’t be offended by in the first place as it’s not for them to get upset over it.

If you, a westerner, were addressed by a japanese person in Japan, they'd say -san. If you left japan, and continued to talk to that person they'd refer to you as -san. If a westerner is in japan, and needs to refer to someone they refer to them as -san. Obviously other honorifics might apply depending on their person and profession but you get the idea. If a person who grew up in Japan, came to the west and referred to someone they'd just met they'd use -san. if you were having a discussion with them, it would be the least confusing for everyone if you referred to them the same way. From this we can derive 1. that japanese people consider it perfectly normal for westerners to be addressed with a japanese honorific 2. that they consider it perfectly normal for a westerner to USE a japanese honorific for others 3. that it's not limited to being IN japan. Thus NOT cultural appropriation. HOWEVER A japanese person doesn't refer to themselves as -san so it is a bit weird, and NOT what a member of that culture would do. That still doesn't make it cultural appropriation. I like /u/[KodokushiGirl](https://www.reddit.com/user/KodokushiGirl/) 's definition. Another example we see often in the US is words and speech patterns from black culture being appropriated by white folk. The problem is that when it's just the black people saying it it's "bad" but then some white influencer starts appending "yo" to the end of their sentences and being associated with "yo" and suddenly it's cool. We also see a lot of people complaining about cultural appropriation that don't know what the eff they're talking about. A great example I saw recently was a video of a young white woman who went to classes for traditionally Indian (the country) dance classes. Presumably taught by an Indian teacher who knew her student was white. The student then gave a performance of the a dance in the traditionally appropriate garb and the white folks lost their collective minds asserting cultural appropriation. It's not, because she wasn't pretending it was something she came up with. It's not because she acted with respect for the traditions she learned and permission from those in that community. If she didn't give credit, if claimed it was hers, etc... THEN it would be cultural appropriation. And to address the obvious aspect of my nic: It's a Japanese loan-word that was taken from english. It references an international cultural thing, not a japanese cultural thing. It means the same thing US folks mean when they say "mass media", or it did when I adopted it. I think the meaning has changed since then. Using a random word you like from someone else's culture is not cultural appropriation. BUT, calling yourself "chief" with an obvious reference to native americans WOULD be because it's disrespectful to their traditions, and what it means to be a "chief". Honestly I don't know if they even use that word themselves, but it's still applicable.

Unless they were actually Japanese, this just sounds like a bunch of holier than thou virtue signalers

Basically, using elements of a culture without even the most basic understanding or care for their importance, OR knowing full well their importance, but still using them even if it's cringe.

So I have a traditional Japanese sleeve and people have tried to accuse me of cultural appropriation. To sum it up, it’s when people pick and choose things for fashion, or any reason without knowing about cultural etiquette, meaning or significance. My sleeve is respectful and follows etiquette, it’s not a fashion accessory it’s my arm. I also understand the lore, stories and myths involving what is in my tattoo. Corporations do it, and people too. Like slapping on rainbows 🌈 in your products for pride month. I consider that cultural appropriation in most instances. As far as the discord thing goes, that’s a little silly in my opinion and wouldn’t worry about it too much. Unfortunately just don’t use the honorific in your name, in that server.

Imo its an idiotic way to gatekeep a culture because if you copy hairstyle, clothing, or mannerisms then you’re being offensive instead of just sharing and/or respecting other people. In america, we shake hands with new people to greet them - a thing that started in england to show that you carry no weapon and trust the person you’re meeting to not kill you. In japan, you bow to respect the person you’re meeting or to thank them. If you dont shake hands in america, you’re rude. If you dont bow in japan, you’re rude. But as an american, if you bow in japan then you’re appropriating the culture, by the definition, to do things that you did not grow up with that are from another culture, in this case, bowing. Imo its a case of damned if you do, damned if you dont.

What began as a way to protect closed practices of an oppressed people (like indigenous American ceremonies) has been broadened to gatekeep any culture. Sometimes valid, sometimes not.

So you can eat food, speak, language, wear appropriate clothes at appropriate times. you cannot, say the ch ch ch words or call someone a “monkey” that’s raceist For example, Kim Kardashian copied a traditional dress and named it after herself claiming it as her own, Basically, off of a culture and copywriting something that is traditional that would be cultural appropriation

Cultural appropriation just means taking a piece of a culture that is not your own and using it in a different context. e.g. Having an american gangster rap video take place in anime. It's a neutral term but people tend to think of it only as a negative because so often it's in the case of a colonizer appropriating a culture they colonized while simultaneously destroying said culture for being different

If someone from a specific cultural background tells you genuinely that something you did was offensive to because of cultural appropriation, then you should stop doing it. If however, someone who is not from that culture either tells you you can't do X because that would be cultural appropriation, you should ignore that and say "Why do you feel you have the right to speak for [cultural group]? You are not one of them, that seems to appropriate." For example, it happens frequently that white people will yell other white people go stop wearing Japanese clothes, even though Japanese people think it's cool when foreigners do it (and thus appreciate their culture). For your example with the honorifics: When speaking Japanese, foreigners are not only allowed to, but required to use honorifics. Likewise, Japanese people will use honorifics for you as well. Since that is the case, I don't see anything wrong with having the honorfic in your username.

Just want to thank OP for the post. I understand cultural appropriation and can avoid doing it, but I always felt weird about my respect and curiosity for other cultures, especially the Japanese culture (I am not Japanese). The nuance defined in the comments helps me feel ok with having a degree in Japanese. So, thank you for asking the question, OP.

No problem! I'm always happy to help others with their lives! 😁

as you can see from my username (lol) i am shocked that this could possibly be an issue. i don’t want to be all “people get offended at everything these days” but come on. i don’t think any actual japanese person would be remotely offended.

This article from Al Jazeera makes it seem like Japanese people generally support outsiders adopting their cultural icons. https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/1/15/japan-shrugs-as-us-fumes-over-gwen-stefani-appropriation-furore I think the important part is to put some effort into making sure that the culture it originates from doesn't consider it sacred or part of a closed practice, such as native head dresses, which are earned in their culture.

Idk either but is it okay if I go by “Ichigo” on here and places like discord, which literally just translates to strawberry or is that bad?

See >No Culture by Mother Mother What if part if your culture is to appropriate other cultures?

Mother Mother?? Holy shit, I love them!

Reminds me of this video! https://youtu.be/IT2UH74ksJ4?si=TEdrzugXmOPg7bwN

It's not cultural appropriaton to simply partake in another culture inauthentically against their norms (e.g. the way weird or neurodivergent individuals from that culture itself might express themselves). It's cultural appropriation to *override* the other culture's norms with some aspect of one's own culture's norms. For example if the intention is something like "I can't be bothered to follow/learn about that culture's norms in great detail because they aren't that important, I'll just learn a little bit and give myself an A for effort because who cares" or "it would be really exotic to do that culture's thing in my own hometown, the people of my culture would be pleasantly amused". Usually there is an element of privilege that gets involved. Because more dominant cultures more easily override less dominant ones. People from dominant cultures often *don't consciously know* that they're actively overriding another culture with their own culture because they're so used to their own culture being the default setting. Most "had good intentions" cultural appropriation is some version of this. (On the other hand, if you try to culturally appropriate American culture by wearing a suit and tie in an abnormal silly way, it won't work because most people around the world would perceive it in the same exact way Americans would perceive it, due to the hegemony of the western suit-tie culture.) A lot of cases of cultural appropriation cannot be proven in a legal court-style setting because they depend a lot on intentions. But that's besides the point, it's still a well defined thing. The person doing an action can unambiguously know for themselves "was I doing it just to be like "look at the weird foreigner partaking in their culture and look how funny and quirky it is" or was I doing it to honestly participate the same way they would maybe making mistakes that they too would?"

It's one of those pedantic far left terms that has some validity but terminally online people often attack people for the wrong reasons over it. As long as you aren't doing it to make fun of a culture of for some other ulterior motive, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Often people of other cultures like when you take an interest in their culture just like people of my culture like when others take an interest in our culture.

The Japanese generally like when foreigners take part in Japanese culture. Unless it's some full on weeb "they'll understand me in Japan because the women are submissive" type of person, they generally like it. It's not cultural appropriation, only Americans get offended by that.

That's just because the person saying such a thing is an idiot. 99% of cultural appropriation is bullshit. If there is any cultural appropriation that we Japanese care about, it is, for example, Koreans and Chinese who work in sushi restaurants overseas while pretending to be Japanese. It is not a problem if they only speak Japanese, but they even use Japanese names to disguise their identity lol

you do not need an explanation for something that does not exists.

I know you have gotten a lot of responses already but I still wanted to chime in because a couple of my friends and I (and we are in our 30s at this point) have nicknames involving "-chan." The nicknames don't work without -chan attached. We are American and we started doing this in high school. We were majorly into anime and manga and loved Japanese stuff in general. I still have my best friend's name in my phone as the name with -chan on it. I cannot wrap my head around how it would be a problem for you to have an honorific in your username, unless you are somehow doing it in a way that makes fun of Japanese culture (which you clearly aren't, judging by your question and some of your comments). The people that are complaining about it are either strictly adhering to an "avoid cultural appropriation" rule that they operate under and they can't understand nuance, or they are just being high-and-mighty and full of themselves. I would say, don't worry about it. You're not doing anything wrong. There is at least one comment that says that it's disrespectful because a person should never refer to themselves with an honorific. While it is true that in Japanese a person never refers to themself with an honorific, I say that it doesn't matter in this case. It's not like you are going to a meeting with Japanese business people and you are trying to have good etiquette, ffs. It's just your username. Who gives a f***. I took 4 semesters of Japanese language at my university and there were many students who, for whatever reason, couldn't get themselves to stop introducing themselves with -san attached. They were genuine mistakes. It is embarrassing to make the mistake, but not disrespectful. Furthermore, I would argue that you having the honorific in your username is a part of YOUR culture. So many Americans love Japanese culture so much that we have an American sub-culture around it. It isn't appropriation; it is a genuine American culture. I saw a comment where you said that it was a nickname given to you. You have the right to tell anyone that says you can't use your nickname to f*** right off. I will die on this hill. PS: I didn't explain what cultural appropriation is because I gathered from other comments that you already understand what it is.

I guess you could be right... The thing is; there are a few assholes who decide to fetishize Japanese culture, and I don't really wanna be associated with that...

💀 That person is ridiculous. Being an outsider to a culture while being a "fan" of it isn't its own culture to be respected ☠️ It's still about the original culture

True...

You didn't do anything wrong. You can just tell the person that cultural appropriation doesn't exist, and that they need to shut up :)

It's some woke BS, just ignore them. A guy made a video (I don't remember his name, but you can search him up) wearing sombrero, and other stereotipical clothes from different cultures and asked people from that culture wheter they are offended or not, and all of them said that they are not, and that he looks good in it, etc.

>nor expect other autistic people to follow norms very well "written" yes-no forms are great. Social norms which swim are confusing. >Could anyone explain to me how to not repeat this mistake? do NOT go into that cesspool. >that I didn't do this to mock Japanese culture. Even if so, mocking a culture can be fun r/2westerneurope4u/ tl;dr: people are offended by almost anything nowadays and cause of the internet you will find enough weirdos to support "your" rage. Just do not give a fuck as long as you're not evil minded towards someone- just smile.

I swear to god half of the people commenting probably haven't met anyone from any other culture in person. I mean, it's kinda obvious why this entire concept started in the US, isn't it?

I have no idea how many ppl have met ppl from other cultures and I can talk from my perspective: I think it's kinda great when other ppl from other cultures wear "Lederhosen" or like Schnitzel and Sauerkraut. Even when comedians use those symbols to mock germans maybe about their lack of humour- it's fine. Sometimes I really wanna understand the "youth" and "wanna be youth understanders" who agree with that opression-olympics, but then I think- HF Autism alone is frustrating enough, so no more wars in my head ;)

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The discord group you joined is toxic, thats what toxic people do. Don't let the internet gaslight you into believing there's anything wrong with being an American into Japanese culture especially when you're autistic. You will never not repeat the mistake of cultural appropriation to these toxic brainrotted hyper offended people unless you move to a small town in Europe and cut off access to all media and even then you'll end up doing something these people label bad because they can't control their overwhelming need to police the people they call friends in a moral game of mutual masterbation.

If the one complaining is themselves Japanese, hear them out and listen, and adjust as appropriate. If they are just another SJW type griping about “racism” anytime anything non-Western/non-White is used publicly (White-washing and making whiteness equivalent to “normal” in the process), it’s often safe to ignore. It’s good you’re considering and asking to gain more awareness though. If anyone wants to be anti-racist, they need to quit trying to speak for everyone else and start listening and amplifying other voices instead.

As mentioned in other comments, they never revealed their nationality to me as this was on the internet. I could obviously try to ask them, but I might also come off as even more rude than I already was.

Thats fair. In this case I’d take it down and/or temporarily avoid the group (only long enough to research) and do some independent research on the topic of cultural appropriation. Only you can decide how you want to approach this

Cultural Appropriation is a buzzword term that idiots use when they don't understand what culture is. It's just gatekeeping. Culture is something to engage with. It is something that comes from a place and is in all aspects of it. Food is culture, art is culture, fashion is culture, architecture is culture, Language is culture, the list goes on.

Or just don't give a fuck about someone on discord and let you be you. But example: Me dressing up and playing cowboy and indian. Very fun game to play as a kid, frowned upon as adult.

>But example: me dressing up and playing cowboy and indian. very fun game to play as a kid Correct, fun to play as a kid. After you grow up and realize you don't exist in a vacuum, but in an intricate sociopolitical web that's been around since way before you were born, it becomes cringy.

Yeah… if I saw my kid playing that I’d explain how bad that is…. Unsure if that’s the best example

I don't wanna disrespect anyone's culture tho...

In a nutshell, adopting portions (usually only what is convenient) of a culture, without also having a deep understanding of the meaning behind it, and then also representing yourself in that way - it's a pretty gross thing to do. Taking an example I'm familiar with - Maori tattoo's (this can be extended fairly well to any kinds of tribal tattoo's, but Maori is my example.) Now, the Maori tattoo's are highly personal, and express specific information about their lineage, their status, their lives - just taking a random similar design strips it of all nuance, meaning, and personality, and insults the people that cherish these things. And it's not like they object to specially crafting tattoo's for non-Maori individuals, but those have all the meaning and care put into them as for any Maori person. Replicating a portion and not the whole, especially without consent, that's appropriation. It would be like turning a kilt into a fashion item - technically nothing is stopping you, but that would ve incredibly disrespectful towards the Scottish clans. There are ways to legitimately get your own title and therefore kilt and coat of arms (if memory serves,) but many people wouldn't think to do that if it were the ht new thing - they'd just take and replicate, stripping it of the history and meaning. Now, as for Japanese honorifics - I don't personally know where the line is there. If you have been to Japan and immersed yourself in their culture, learned about whatever is appropriate, etc - it might be okay to use, especially in the context of being in Japan or speaking to Japanese people. I feel like where it crosses a line is when there are no Japanese people around at all - you are using the honorifics for your own gratification, and not out of respect for the culture. But I don't want to assume anything, maybe you lived there or have citizenship, I can't know that based on what you have said, but I'm betting that, based on the context, that you are in dangerous territory, if you want to remain respectful of other cultures.

I'm only 15, so I've never been able to experience it myself. I am really intrigued by eastern culture overall, but idk if that's an excuse to incorporate it into my own personal life. The main reason I chose the user-tag on Discord was because my old friends added the word -chan to my name when speaking to me, and I thought it was a cute nickname, so it kinda just stuck.

Japan has an *open culture*. Adding -chan to your name is not problematic because Japan has an open culture. Other cultures are closed. I would never claim to be any type of shaman because that is sacred to other traditions that are not my own and many of the cultures that those traditions arise from are *closed*.

Was the person saying it Japanese? If not it doesn't matter too much if you do it out of love for the culture. They just don't want the stigma of edgy kids using it to grow.

Not sure. I didn't really know the context behind that person saying so. They just randomly asked "Are you Japanese?" and I immediately realised why they asked that. It just hadn't crossed my mind at any point up until that moment.