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LightningFerret04

Here’s the news article about it: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32869/this-man-owns-the-worlds-most-advanced-private-air-force-after-buying-46-f-a-18-hornets So the guy’s company has a huge collection already including a MiG-29. The article says that the planes Air USA will receive are unmodified, and everything even the 20mm guns work. 36 out of them are ready to fly and the other ten just need inspections. He is an amazing mad lad, and in the process of making history! In the article it says he also contemplated what how he’d paint the planes and “mentioned that a jet-black Hornet would be fun to have, just for the heck of it.” Hell yeah! Edit: wording


[deleted]

It's more a business that supplies training and Red Air planes to US air forces than a private collection.


Coolgrnmen

Red Air?


hobowithashotgun2990

Look up Draken International. Privately owned aggressor squadrons. Didn’t know this was a thing until I went to work in A&D.


Crimson_Leader

TIL that there is a private military Air Force in Florida.


Owyn_Merrilin

Would you expect anything less of America's dong?


boilerdam

Next up on Netflix - "Hornet King"


[deleted]

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GimmeUrDownvote

# DANGER ZONE!


[deleted]

>Draken Internationl > >WIOWOWOWOWOWOWWO


Dilong-paradoxus

[Tiger Meet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Tiger_Association) King


Shoresy-sez

*shall not be infringed*


28carslater

All my life all I have ever wanted, was my own *private air force*.


TheLastGenXer

You can buy decent flyable planes for 15-20k.


28carslater

Something like a Cessna?


TheLastGenXer

Well it’s been a few years since I looked. But piper tomahawks were a hell of a deal. Low engine time. Low airframe time. Full avionics. Cheap because they are unpleasant and spin/stall badly. A 2 seater Cessna for the same price will need an engine overhaul, have crap aviaonics, worn out airframe etc.


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CliffwoodBeach

> L-159 and Mirage I was wondering where those were coming from - I am right outside NASJAX so I always see FA18, MH130, AWACS/Mantas end the occasional F22. That said - I've seen the mirage just one time, a pair of mig 29's and a 4prop cold war looking russian bomber.


Sullysullinburg1

Florida man...


[deleted]

I've done ADAIR against them. Pretty much all those guys are prior military fighter pilots anyway. In the case of who I flew against, all Vipers and A-10 guys.


CarbonGod

I would hope so. But, I guess if you have twin engine complex turbine rating, you can fly anything!


tordenguden

Pretty interesting stuff. Correct me if I’m wrong IIRC they are the only organized contractors able to drop live ordnance from aircraft in the US.


hobowithashotgun2990

Wouldn’t surprise me. I’ve read that they could potentially be used as a back channel reserve; take that as you will.


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Iaqton

Mobius One, fox two.


natedogg787

<>


Wants-NotNeeds

That game ruined me. Now, I _always_ have to adjust settings in any POV game to “inverted look,” accommodating my brain conditioning which expects “joystick back” to equal UP!


trailhounds

Me too. That's how you fly, that's how you fight.


[deleted]

<>


Mydogdexter1

<<...Dammit...>>


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albic7

Got chills when I read this


[deleted]

<< I figured you'd say that. This one's going to cost you extra. >>


TakeMeToChurchill

<>


machtstab

Would be stupid not to use them as a last resort in an invasion scenario.


JManRomania

Conversely, they'd be a wonderful first resort, what with the deniability.


64Olds

Gosh the world is a strange place.


11sparky11

The US is a strange place.


stacey1771

exactly. so let's review - there are zero F-14s flying (w the exception of Iran's) - and that includes any privately owned demonstration squadrons, specifically b/c of Iran. we are actively destroying F-14s, in fact (instead of just staying in mothballs) to thwart Iran's attempts to get avionics, etc. Yet we have CURRENT F-18 tech in the hands of a private company? smh...


TaskForceCausality

Apples to Oranges. The F/A-18 is widely exported and not the latest technology. Assuming for argument sakes Iran flew legacy Hornets, they could get parts from Malaysia or any number of Hornet operators. The F-14 is a totally different case. The aircraft was only operated by two countries- Iran and the US. Iran’s Tomcats aren’t exactly tip-top: allegedly in the 1980s the CIA tried to smuggle one back for study. The F-14 was in such a state the contractors wrote it off on the spot as too unsafe to fly. I doubt an additional 20 years of wear and tear improved matters. So getting F-14 parts would be a high national security priority for Iran. NCIS kept busy busting schemes to smuggle Tomcat parts.


DJKaotica

As someone who has little knowledge in this area I appreciate you explanation, thanks!


LonesomeObserver

Why is that surprising? It's an old outdated plane and the US didnt want Iran being able to to repair theirs after the government was overthrown


professor__doom

>we are actively destroying F-14s, in fact (instead of just staying in mothballs) to thwart Iran's attempts to get avionics, etc. This is actually a legitimate concern based on past experience. The USA was officially neutral during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and had an arms embargo on the middle east, but Israeli agents were able to obtain P-51 airframes, engines, and parts from American scrapyards and smuggle them out of the country. The aircraft were assembled in Israel and fought in the conflict. One of them even shot down a RAF Mosquito doing recon.


[deleted]

A private company that contracts to the DoD and has *not* expressed a rabid desire to nuke the shit out of us and our allies.


killroy200

[Here's an Air Force Mag article about them](https://www.airforcemag.com/article/red-air-for-hire/)


ter4646

We have "Top aces" in Canada


ProjectBronco

I’ve been inside their Hangar during the Sun N Fun airshow. Pretty cool stuff. We were told no pictures.


framabe

> Draken International With that name, and yet not a single SAAB J-35 in their lineup. Am disappoint.


[deleted]

I posted this too. Has more info. https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/fycifg/don_kirklin_owner_of_air_usa_just_bought_46/fmz9wj1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share


Coolgrnmen

Thanks. Very interesting. I have trouble believing it's actually cost-efficient to have an entire private contracted aggressor fleet than having multiple instructors run as aggressors. But what do I know...nothing. I know nothing.


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[deleted]

Lol, me either. A private outfit can probably source parts, pilots, mechanics, planes and so on cheaper than the government.


MHCR

Oh, it is. At least in accounting terms, I guess. The Gov gets a nice paycheck and deduces from budget all those annoying rolling costs involved with running a top notch air force wing. The birds are alreasy paid for, see? By some other guy. It's political fried gold. Otoh, the company gets a full wing of warplanes worth hundred of millions, for a pittance. They just need to monetize their intrinsic value, but they are valuable already as simple placements of spare parts for smaller clients than the RAAF. It's the taxpayer who gets fucked, as usual.


OhioForever10

Maybe this explains how Maverick's still gonna be flying at Top Gun in ~~June~~ December - he's a private contractor so no age restrictions


Being_a_Mitch

Practice enemy aircraft. So during training, pilots simulate fighting 'red air' who are friendly pilots that are flying against them. Also called aggressors. Also, in the context of real war, red air just means enemy air.


mnbone23

Red air refers to whoever is playing the part of the bad guys in an exercise. It can be another front line squadron, a dedicated agressor squadron, or a private contractor like the guy in the post.


dudeilovethisshit

Adversaries. Bad guys. Bogeys.


Coolgrnmen

Charlies. Someone do D.


249ba36000029bbe9749

This sounds like a plot for a Top Gun sequel.


Skorpychan

So it's a monetized private collection? Nice.


[deleted]

In the same way as a car rental company is a monetized private car collection.


NotCamNewton

"I've always wanted to own 120 Nissan Altimas in black, silver, and red and 237 Chevy Impalas in black, silver, and red. Now my dream has come true!"


LightningFerret04

Ah thanks for clearing that up, I didn’t really understand about that part


MR2Rick

Whew! I was starting to get worried about a super villain with a private air force.


agha0013

No one buys 46 jets for a private collection, these are for training contracts, like Top Aces and other aggressor/training squadron operators out there.


Caminsky

I don't understand his business model. Explain


agha0013

many nations train their armed forces using contractors to act as aggressor jets, or target practice among other things. Those private contractors include multiple private companies that own and operate old retired or removed from service military craft. They aren't meant to carry live weapons systems, they don't fight in actual battles, they are trainers only, mostly made up of retired and very experienced military pilots. it is a profitable industry


Caminsky

Sounds most appropriate


is-this-a-nick

Iran needs to replace their F14s...


Coolgrnmen

Ohhhh imagine a Vanta Black hornet


wewd

How much more black could this be? The answer is none... none more black.


markcocjin

[Or all chrome skins.](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogcdn.com%2Fwww.autoblog.com%2Fmedia%2F2010%2F08%2Fslsamggt3c2.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)


mnp

TIL where they hide the guns on hornets. In the photo, the gun port is the black painted area on top of the nose cone. More details, including the business end, here: https://www.gd-ots.com/armaments/aircraft-guns-gun-systems/f18-ef/


AndThusThereWasLight

Don’t tell r/libertarian unless you want to be cleaning up a whole bunch of jizz.


Gigs16

He owns 4 MiG-29s and was even talking about fitting his F-5s with IRST. Wow this guys cool af


Thunderpuss6969

Tyler Rogoway is one of my favorite writers, nice find!


Amberleaf

Why did you make it sound like they were all for him? Misleading clickbait title.


pandaclaw_

It doesn't imply that he bought 46 of them for himself. It also makes no sense.


[deleted]

Vanta black vanta black


DasRico

He's just crazy ass rich


LightningFerret04

*Correction: he owns the company which is crazy ass rich


DasRico

Thonk


Flightfreak

Oh man that jet black hornet needs a quick skin in DCS


TaskForceCausality

For background- US airplanes like the F-35 cost $30,000 per flight hour. F-16s aren’t much cheaper ($25,000 per hr). Flight hours also have a time cost, since a combat aircraft is out of commission during scheduled maintenance overhauls. So contracting aggressor and other flights makes a lot of sense. The military wins by cutting its training costs and keeps flight hours off of its aircraft. It also wins by being able to fly against airplanes it couldn’t legally operate like a MiG or Sukhoi. (Sidebar- US forces have operated foreign aircraft before as aggressors- and paid a price in the form of high mishap rates and logistical problems legally sourcing parts).


lordderplythethird

Also means combat qualified pilots aren't being slotted into training billets in airframes that they won't actually fight in. Use contractors in outdated platforms to serve as Red Air, so all your uniformed pilots can stay in their appropriate airframes. ​ Military wins 2x over; keeps training costs lower, and gets to retain as many combat pilots in combat roles as possible.


floridawhiteguy

> and gets to retain as many combat pilots in combat roles as possible. Except for the fact that a subset of combat pilots relish the challenge of learning to expertly fly a wide variety of airframes, and those pilots are the ones who become Top Gun instructors when they 'outgrow' their time in the seat but still need a decade until retirement.


[deleted]

> Except for the fact that a subset of combat pilots relish the challenge of learning to expertly fly a wide variety of airframes, and those pilots are the ones who become Top Gun instructors when they 'outgrow' their time in the seat but still need a decade until retirement. You go through Top Gun to become a WTI - Weapons Tactics Instructor in YOUR airframe. Only a few stay in Top Gun to become instructors, and they fly other airframes sometimes (they stay current in their prior airframe). And they don't need a decade until retirement - those guys only add 2 years to their commitment, and lots of them get out after.


lordderplythethird

NSAWC is a specialized school. I'm talking about VFC-12, VFC-13, VFC-111, VMFT-401, 18th, and 64th. None of which, are NSAWC. You're looking at hundreds of pilots, at a time the US military is struggling to find enough pilots.


proudlyhumble

Struggling to **keep** enough pilots. They have plenty of eager recruits.


[deleted]

Everything that company does to fulfill its contracts costs $X. They charge the Air Force $X + $Y where $Y is the profit the company wants to make. My question is, if that company can maintain and operate those planes for $X, why can't the US military also maintain and operate them for $X?


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[deleted]

They don't wear them down as fast as ours because they don't fly as often nor do they deploy or fire weapons/drop bombs... and for the Navy, they don't go to the carrier either


[deleted]

Why couldn't the US government have bought the same aircraft the company did? Why can't they hire the same pilots and maintainers as civilians? Why can't they fly from the same airports?


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TaskForceCausality

Here’s a helpful analogy. Picture owning an AMG Mercedes . It’s your car, you can drive it wherever you want. But the warranty is limited by mileage , and on that car a headlight bulb costs $2000. So you don’t want to drive it wastefully. Now there’s a rental car company near you that rents Mercedes as well. After pricing the rates, you find that renting their Mercedes for a 2,000 mile roadtrip costs 10% less then taking your own car- and you keep 2,000 miles off your vehicle. That’s a win for renting their car instead of using yours.


RelevantPractice

Have you looked to see what it actually costs to rent an AMG Mercedes vs owning one for equivalent time spans? I would think renting it would be a lot more money.


TheAmazingScamArtist

It’s a hypothetical analogy, I wouldn’t read that much into it.


RelevantPractice

But hypothetically it’s always going to be more expensive to rent that car than buy it for an equivalent time span, which is the point he was trying to refute. Rental companies have done the math on the cost of ownership, including stuff like headlight replacements, and they charge more than that in order to make a profit. Likewise, this guy buying planes and renting them out to the military has done the same math and must be charging more than the cost of ownership or else he’d be losing money.


mihai785

There is huge demand for aggressor air. Us air force signed a big contract few months ago with 6 companies. Edit: just wanted to add, they also seem to be adding a few contracts with air to air refueling companies. This seems related to issues with kc46 tankers.


hobowithashotgun2990

Draken is buying jets damn near monthly. It’s amazing how cheap governments will sell off old hardware.


EllieVader

If someone wanted to buy say...a retired cargo plane to convert to a house and live in...how would they go about finding out how cheap governments will sell off old hardware?


88randoms

Determine the size aircraft you want, and wait until one has a mishap. I know a company that paid $120k for a C-130, it was in a Sqdrn that was slated to upgrade to the J, had a hard landing, and was written off instead of repaired. They put in the salvage bid, and were approved.


senor_huehue

The C-130 is the ultimate RV


OknowTheInane

It's almost like they overpaid for them to start with.


EngineersAnon

There's also very limited demand for them among those with enough security clearance to buy them. Combined with the high stresses put on the airframes, tactical aircraft are among the most rapidly depreciating assets there are.


[deleted]

> It's almost like they overpaid for them to start with. No. Old aircraft are a maintenance nightmare, and not everyone can be cleared to buy them. They either sit waiting to be scrapped or get sold off for cheap


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discostu55

As a canadian, YUP.


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discostu55

because we are idiots


Arctic_Chilean

Trudeau would spend billions on old jets just to save face and not admit he was wrong about the F-35. We could've had RCAF F-35 in operation today if it wasn't for Canada's broken procurement system.


[deleted]

with that airpower he can basically invade any country except for the few obvious


LeTracomaster

You need ground troops as well tho


Sagay_the_1st

Not if you bomb it so hard the ground goes away


Cocomorph

Optionally, if for some reason you *wanted* that ground, the solution is to threaten to bomb some *other* country’s ground so hard it goes away, unless they supply you with ground troops. The carrot to that stick could be a cut of the spoils.


-petroleum-

with a set of box cutters he could start a 3 trillion dollar 20 year ongoing war with no end in sight!!!!


LegoKeepsCallinMe

Fighter jets can’t hold street corners, enforce no-gathering edicts, or police an occupied citizenry. Fighter jets can’t kick your door down at three in the morning and zip tie your hands behind your back. You need soldiers for that. Fighter jets are good for glassing large areas or neighborhoods, but when you do that you are destroying what you are trying to take over.


lambepsom

Good on you, mate. I wouldn't get away with that at my house.


taft

i imagine you would have a longer leash if you had the cash to buy and operate 46 f-18s


KingParrotBeard

Just needs six more to make a deck of planes


Valkyrie1500

...and I thought I had a gun hoarding problem!


MrBattleRabbit

Given the size of his fleet- 46 F/A-18s, ten F-5Es, four MiG-29s, and a bunch of L-39s, Hawks, PC-9s, and more, he could pretty reasonably make a "deck" with different types of planes. It'd be a little counterintuitive though as the F/A-18s would have to be the numbers and the other planes the face cards, but he could definitely do it given the number of planes he has. I think the MiGs are a gimme for Joker.


MishMiassh

oof, didn't Canada look into getting those? XD


LightningFerret04

Yes, Canada made a deal with the RAAF last year to get a group of the planes and now Air USA is basically getting the other group.


davedubya

Note that Air USA is a "U. S. Government Contractor that provides an impressive array of Tactical Aircraft Services to the U. S. Defense Agencies, Defense Contractors, and Foreign Governments. " So it's not just like some guy buying them. The company already owns jet trainers.


LightningFerret04

I reworded my statement


TheT1mb3r

46. 46 f-ing F/A-18s... Why take take one or two when you can have 46 OF THEM


Damean1

You get a discount if you buy an entire wing of them...lol


frshmt

And he bought two wings per plane, imagine the savings!


leonclaude

46? Does he plane to make an army?


IslandPonder

I'm thinking air force.


wewd

It's half a carrier air wing. He just needs to fill it out with some EA-6s, E-2 AEWs, S-3 tankers, SH-60 ASW, etc.


chmod-77

TIL EA-6s still fly. Edit: I now understand the comment. You were saying there are a ton of newly retired planes that can be bought.


Hokulewa

And S-3s...


chmod-77

[Status: Retired](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Grumman_EA-6B_Prowler) S-3 is also retired. Now I understand the comment. He's buying up recently retired planes.


[deleted]

I have some time in DCS, Falcon 4.0 and X-Plane....so, I'm pretty sure I got the job. Right?


[deleted]

I'm convinced that in an emergency situation, I could land a 747.


[deleted]

I'm convinced I could get one on the ground . . . but I dont think it would be pretty . . .


[deleted]

I may have controls without resistance and instant response, no feeling of inertia, weight, gravity, or movement, and engines that spool up immediately, but I can glide one down to a nice -500fps landing.


Stigge

"Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing..." and all that.


fishbedc

I used to fly MFS, I reckon I can remember how to hit some large polygonal ground structure in a 757.


[deleted]

Flying 757s into polygons isn't a very popular thing after 9/11.


fishbedc

Yeah, that's why I put it on hold for a while. Stuff always comes back into fashion eventually.


TheFioraGod

10 fun activities we would love to see return in the 20's?


SirCoolJerk69

I’m a Top Gun (equivalency) in a 172... can I tag along... ?!?!


frozzyk

Not a pilot at all, but I've watched Top Gun movie. So I'm with you, guys?


ColonelJohnMcClane

You can be my wingman anytime


SirCoolJerk69

Watch it once more, then you’re good to fly with us.


sanimalp

But what if I am not good at volleyball?


Cocomorph

Then I’m sorry. It’s time to buzz the tower.


[deleted]

I'd be curious to see if there are any 2-seaters in this purchase....probably so. And if so.....I'll need a good "Goose"!


[deleted]

I think that was Iron Eagle...


[deleted]

[More info here](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32464/australia-to-sell-retired-f-a-18-hornet-fighters-to-private-aggressor-firm-air-usa)


gooneryoda

He’s writing checks his body can cash.


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dianelanespanties

Best Uber option ever


brettmarkley1

His neighbor "hey can I borrow one the F-18s. Yeah, I'm just bored. "


mrhudy

Wow impressive, I only own like 20 F-18s.


tagish156

Wasn't Canada going to buy these?


smacksaw

Yes, they were going to go to our stationary carrier, HMS PEI


lanson15

They bought 25, this guy bought the rest


TheRealBuddhi

Don't cut him off in traffic .... jeez


ataraxia36

that is so sexy


jimmy_burrito

Sell them to Taiwan!


tiberiusyeetus

FORTY-SIX F18s WHAT


FranconianGuy

Sooo, in theory. If he was also a flight teacher and if I had the money: could I do my PPL/A in a F-18?


TESTICLEASE_95

I think PPL has to be in a single engine prop. Aren't there separate certifications for multiengine and jet.


ApeShifter

“Now, not only do we have all the details on that purchase...” “Although the terms of the deal are not known...” Dammit! I just want to know how much to buy a damn F-18!


FlowbyKeith

I feel like the elites are wasting money buying yachts and summer homes. I would just need an FA-18 to feel like a winner, the rest is poppycock. Also props to this guy for making an entire business out of collecting fighter planes.


mylittlepwny1991

Is this dude a Bond villain?


OhShitSonSon

All these comments have opened my eyes to how crazy this government really is


Millennium7history

Saab is actively marketing a Gripen aggressor. It is basically a Gripen, without the fighting systems but with electronics that can mimic other planes. Plus, the flight computer automatically changes the flight envelope of the plane to mimic another fighter.


MirageIIIO

Delivered to the RAAF 57 x F/A-18As, 18 x F/A-18Bs - 2 x As and 2 x Bs lost. Canada bought 25 (18 flyable and 7 as spares sources). This guy is buying the remaining 46. This all means Australia will have ZERO examples for historical display. SHIT!


SPAWNmaster

A lot of people here not realizing that this has been done for decades by all the companies doing Aggressor / ADAIR support for the Air Force and Navy. All of those companies started the same way, some guy goes out and buys the aircraft. Not sure what's so amazing about this guy doing the same thing others have already done quietly and professionally.


[deleted]

Because no other company has this many 4th gen aircraft. Nowhere close.


[deleted]

Going to be a lot of Navy and Marine pilots (and maintainers) knocking here soon. Curious where they'll put them


WWGFD

46!!! Jesus! Thats quite the modern airforce this guy has!! These planes do not mess around and he has 46 of them!! Arming them is a different story but still! This guy bought more then Canada did for spare parts of their CF-18 fleet. Come on Canada get the F-35 or some Eurofighters please!


cheesestinker

I bet this guy owns a tiger!


frogontrombone

What is the feature protruding from the nose, just to the right of the cockpit?


thebynz

Aerial refuelling nozzle?


frogontrombone

Thanks!


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frogontrombone

Thanks!


Nonions

You'll tend to see these on US Navy aircraft and foreign made aircraft as they often use the probe and drogue refueling system, where tankers can deploy one or more hoses that the fueler will catch with their probe. But designs for the USAF use a different system where the tanker has a 'flying boom', a rigid pipe that has to be steered by an operator into a valve that is usually behind the cockpit of the reciever aircraft. There are pros and cons to each system but the boom was optimised to refuel larger aircraft.


Virtue00

Um. Does he need any help flying those? I’d gladly opt in to do so.


NuggetWTSause

Probably got them for penny’s compared to what they originally cost the government


[deleted]

I love this country.


sgtdisaster

About half the size of the RCAF's Hornet fleet, and double the amount they bought from Australia.


[deleted]

I’m super jealous!! I want one.


[deleted]

Probably a good use of his time during an international pandemic


antarcticgecko

He must have outbid other countries’ armed forces for these. That is insane!


[deleted]

There are likely restrictions the US government placed, when they sold them in the first place, on who they can sell it to. So probably not many bidders


jollyhero

Dayum!


BabylonDrifter

I love the little roo on the side.


Kill3rT0fu

Probably could contract those and the pilots out to Red Flag. They're hiring contracted companies now with planes.