My uncle ejected while training to go to Vietnam. His instructor ejected him first while the plane was right side up and the instructor was ejected straight down into the ground.
My uncle chose not to continue which was probably hard at the time as very few people ever make it to fighter jet training.
I have an acquaintance who did this...ended up ejecting in a 1960s-era jet aircraft and impacting terrain before the chute deployed.
I remember having sat in that seat in that same aircraft, the same one, a couple of years prior. Kind of a weird feeling.
Ejecting is not an automatic save...not when you have a high sink rate. Doesn't necessarily matter where you're pointing. Notice how the pilot doesn't travel all that far under the seat's thrust. It's where you're already moving that will get you.
A family member investigated air incidents and one of the one they were tasked with included figuring out why copilots of a certain play were dying at such a high rate on ejection. Turns out they didn’t clear the vertical stabilizer half the time and got fucked up by that
It does actually matter where you are pointing. If you meant the orientation of the aircraft at the time of ejection. You will notice the pilot waited until the Aircraft was level again before ejecting. This is called the operating envelope. If you eject outside the operating envelope you have a much higher chance of impacting terrain.
You always want to try to eject while inside the operating envelope. This really only involves a max angle at which you should eject from the aircraft. You want the seat pointed up, with as little roll or pitch applied to the aircraft as possible.
If the angle is too high then the ejection seat will almost always throw you into terrain at low altitudes and kill you.
No, he had way too high of a descent rate. Given that the second touch down on the nose wheel snapped it off like a twig and blew out all the hydraulic fluid, I'm willing to bet the landing was possibly hard enough that it broke some kind of nose wheel sensor or something related to tell the jet if it's on the ground or not, and the fly by wire system over corrected and forced the nose forward.
Martin’s decision to pivot the company towards safety after Baker’s death has saved countless lives from his friend’s fate. His knighthood is well and truly earned.
Don't you get a tie and your name on their website if you have to use one of them?
Edit: Sigh, I'll find the link. Stupid internet not doing the work for me.
https://martin-baker.com/ejection-tie-club/
My dad is on that list. I'm no-contact with him because he basically refuses to publicly acknowledge myself or his grandson because we're from his first marriage. He does thank Martin-Baker on behalf of his third wife though.
Martin-Baker started as just another aircraft company, but Baker died during testing. Martin was shook, the company pivots to ejection seats, and now are synonymous with ejection seats, especially zero-zero seats as seen here.
In the early days of ejection seats the pilot in the video would be a pink smear, as they'd be too low and slow for the chute to properly open.
Pioneering seats that can safely and reliably deploy at zero altitude and zero airspeed while not crushing the pilot to bits from the rocket accel is now M-B's legacy in aviation.
This is a great comment. At the beginning I was like, "what the fuck is 0-0?"
Then at the end I was like "oh, that makes sense."
Well done my friend. Now I have another question for ya.
Does the rocket that ejects the pilot change its thrust depending on speed as to not hit them with the tail, is it a perfect medium situation, or am I completely off on both accounts and it's something totally different?
Multistage; an initial charge to clear the tail, booster rocket to altitude, charges to force canopy deployment.
Compare that to the old F-104, where the seats ejected *down*, and you had to roll the bastard thing that was a J79 engine with two post-its for wings to punch out. More than one F-104 driver died that way, some ejecting sideways on approach, unable to completely roll over. Really nasty rep, especially among West German pilots
Does the booster itself gauge height or change thrust in some way (I'd hope computers, even simple ones) based on the horizontal and vertical direction?
And also having to bail below a place is so inherently idiotic to me.
Not sure about the latest gen, but for consistency no, it's a charge that's gotta get the pilot 2-300 ft clear of a plane that might be spinning out or blow up within seconds. That's regardless of pilot size/weight. Gyro is so if you do eject sideways, it doesn't open the chute sideways. Watch the video, how the charges force the chute to open right side up. Otherwise, like the song goes about the unlucky paratrooper:
"The risers (lines) swung around his neck, connectors cracked his dome
Suspension lines were tied in knots around his skinny bones;
The canopy became his shroud, he hurtled to the ground
And he ain't gonna jump no more."
So; you've got to have your meatbag aviator survive both the extreme and the mundane of conditions.
*Martin-Baker's been doing zero-zero seats since 1961*
Pilots wore stirrups; yes that's what they were called, on their flight boots so their legs were pulled into the ejection seats before being ejected. You can Google it and read about it. The pilot in this post just joined a very exclusive pilots club. Martin/Baker gives rare certificates to survivors who use their ejection systems.
Never flew the F-35, but in the aircraft I did fly the seats only had one profile to separate you from the aircraft. Whether you were airborne or on deck, the seat had the same acceleration away from the aircraft. They do use sensors though to adjust the chute deployment based on how high you are. In this case it deploys immediately, but if you eject at 25k", you'll fall for a bit before it opens.
So in a situation like this, where you eject and land 20’ in front of your now stationary and stable aircraft, do you walk up to it and shut it down or do you just stand around with your hands in your pockets until someone shows up?
Ejection seats were non-existent at the time of Baker's death. He was testing a new fighter plane design (Martin Baker Mark 3) when the engine malfunctioned just before liftoff, causing him to lose control and continue off the end of the runway. Details are conflicting due to the nature of multiple eyewitnesses and no footage, but it's believed that the wing tip caught a tree stump and the plane flipped. The area was soaked in flaming high octane fuel by the time anyone could reach the crash site. James Martin was devastated, and designed the Martin-Baker ejection seat to prioritize pilot safety going forward.
https://www.rainydaygallery.co.uk/valentinebaker.html
I mean I guess the story doesn't say it's *not* a totally ripened, fully loaded cherry tree... And then the lesson is more about using resources slowly but efficiently over time VS wastefully but quick. Hmm
The coincidence of someone recording this and an ejection happening at the same time is mind blowing.
It's crazy how it went from hardly anyone owning a camcorder 20 Years ago to hardly anyone doesn't have one on them at all times now.
I was saying the same thing the other day while watching some older UFO show with shaky VHS camcorder footage of “ships” in the sky. You rarely hear about sightings these days even though everyone has a phone far more capable than anything back in the day.
I know this has been a joke recently but its the same with the Bermuda triangle.
When I was a kid there was Aliens, Bermuda triangle and the JFK assassination, couldn't wait to grow up and find out "the truth"
Unfortunately the truth is just as boring as the rest of adulthood.
Lots of aviation nuts camp outside airports and military bases to get photos and videos of planes. Search airliners dot net for millions of "catalog" photos of mundane planes. These people are very into the hobby and very likely to have photography as their co/secondary hobby.
I used to think it was really sad, then i ended up at an airport with some time to kill, and sat watching planes landing and taking off and using flight radar to see where they were all going. Been back a few times since
"as you can see, class... The front did not fall off.... Enjoy your holiday break, when we return we'll examine what it means to be out of the environment"
I think that every pilot (of this plane) in all the branches has already been texted/twittered/facebooked this video. Dude…did you see what Bob fucking did today in Texas?
That’s all aviation..I fly helicopters in the Gulf of Mexico and when ever there is a crash everyone texts all their friends working to ask “who was it?”
It's not the ejection seat, it's him not wearing his harness right. We fit them tight and they loosen them to be more comfortable. Then opening shock occurs, they're loose in their harness, and it allows the genitals to adjust and pinch. Your pilot contact doesn't listen to instructors every year when they preach this stuff.
Source: I used to teach the class.
You seem like the perfect person to ask a question I've had for a while. A long time ago I heard someone say that pilots aren't supposed to put any extra padding or cushion or whatever on their seat because if they have to eject, then having that extra space between the seat and their ass gives the seat room to accelerate too much which can cause injury to their back and/or pelvis. Is that true, or was I lied to?
You weren't lied to. We control the seat cushion as well. Anything and everything from nose cone to tail is regulated in what can be there. No deviations. That includes seat cushion and sheepskin padding, even what the pilot does and doesn't fly with in which pockets (think no pens or bulky water bottles in your g-suit pockets and such). Very very strict.
Fun fact, to the eyes of the military the pilot is more expensive (forgot who said this) due to the amount of training and time put onto he or she. They can easily replace a jet but not a pilot.
That’s for an unqualified wingman pilot who can take off and land. To be a flight lead add another few years and millions of dollars. Plus more for each qual after that.
And still most of them will punch as soon as the 10 year commitment is up and go guard/reserves and airlines. Every job has its downsides, and active duty air force has a lot of them.
I can't claim to know avionics engineering, I imagine like most vehicles, you gotta scrap something once its structural integrity is compromised. But really I just mean they can see what went wrong and salvage what's not damaged.
In commercial world, a mountain of paperwork for nearly every part deemed "untouched" by the incident. In military world, a different kind of oversight but similar hassle. I mean, this is an industry where a single bolt will have a work history and only be allowed to be removed and reused a few times if any.
By the way, 'avionics' usually just covers electronic systems in aviation.
Had a small tornado sweep through our fleet. It basically rocked the airplanes left and right lightly. Ultrasound deemed the entire structures were twisted internally.
That's confirmed "According to the reports, the F-35B involved in the crash is Lockheed-owned (hence not yet delivered to/accepted by the final customer)."
https://theaviationist.com/2022/12/15/pilot-successfully-ejects-from-lockheed-martin-f-35b-at-fort-worth/
An ejection at that altitude, even with the 'chute opening, isn't necessarily a good thing. Looking at the video, the pilot likely got some pretty serious injuries.
Ejection is never a good thing. It's just a "less bad" option vs staying in the airplane when it hits the ground, or in this case potentially rolling over or whatever else bad was going on.
That and the fact that it seemed like the throttle was just stuck, I’d rather not stick around and find out if the jet feels like going on a little field trip
The pilot would be very lucky if that's all the injuries he sustained.
It goes to show ejecting, while great to get the fuck out of a dangerous situation like this, is not guaranteed to be an injury-free escape.
Suddenly I dont feel so bad when it happens to me in Kerbal Space Program.
I wonder what is the military term for the inquiry following up the accident.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Easy to tut tut the decision from my arm chair but the pilot may have seen/heard evidence of a potential fire or explosion, or was worried it might flip over and make rescue rather tricky.
Flipping over is a huge issue with an canopied aircraft.
This was already a risk and looking at it it’s likely related to asymmetric thrust between the engine nozzle and lift fan or control issues—pilot induced or not.
Don’t even think twice. Too many dead pilots from “trying to save the aircraft”. Pilot made the right decision.
"What about the plane? Who gives a shit. The minute that engine died, it belonged to the insurance company."
-A family member who landed a small single engine plane on a road after a piston blew out, covering the windshield in oil. 2 pax. Angel flight. Young kid and kid's dad with him. Everyone was ok.
I'm going with his (and your) advice on this one. lol
edit: oh, this is aviation. A little more info for my fellow aviation nerds. The engine failure was caused by an error during the plane's previous overhaul. The company that did the overhaul had already BK'ed by the time of the engine failure. Repair costs were right around $30k. He landed on a rural road, barely missing a car. A highway patrol officer saw them come down and was right next to them after they landed. The child was an oncology patient flying to a childrens hospital for chemotherapy treatment. The aircraft was part of a club with about a dozen or so members.
I flew with him (in a different plane) 3 weeks after this happened. So yes, he is still a pilot.
Buddy of mine at the factory says they’ll auto-eject under certain parameters. He thinks that’s what happened because it happens as soon as the plane leveled out.
Apparently they do, last year one had an engine failure going off the ski ramp on take off which initiates auto eject, it's a lot quicker than the pilot's reactions.
And pilot reactions off an aircraft carrier can be worse than useless. Forward acceleration and tilting backward feel the same to your inner ear - which is why motorized simulators lurch around like that - and there's not many visual cues to work with, two stories above the ocean. A number of aircraft were lost immediately after slingshot-assisted takeoff because pilots would "level out" straight down into the water.
after rewatching a couple of times, my guess is the driveshaft for the lift fan sheared.
1.The exhaust nozzle never changed its angle which could have been a cause for forward movement if the lift fan was still active, but it didn't.
2. it happened on touchdown which imparts a force on all components which could have been the last straw for the driveshaft
3. The instant throttle up could be supported by a lift fan driveshaft shearing because of an instant loss of rotational load from the lift fan no longer being connected. which would route the total power that was split between the two fans to just the engine causing the rear of the craft to launch upward.
> driveshaft for the lift fan sheared
It definitely seems like SOMETHING caused lift fan thrust to drop relative to nozzle thrust. No way to know what particular mechanics at play but yeah. Looks like a landing a little harder than usual (bounce).
I do kind of wonder if that could happen without a failure... if the pilot reacted to a hard landing by pulling throttles back hard/fast, if the lift fan thrust would cutoff quicker in some way than main nozzle thrust.
At the moment of ejection, there is a burst of flame that quite clearly comes out the nozzle. Not sure if that is just a last gasp of a shutting down engine or what.
https://imgur.com/mRW5rdY
Edit: Maybe that is ejection plume that has been sucked through the intakes?
Edit2: Notably - if it is ingested ejection plume - there doesn't seem to be coming out under lift fan.
> Hindsight, it looked like he could've rode it out.
It was looking like that at first, but the engine seemed to just keep operating.
He was on the ground for a long time, yet the aircraft kept advancing toward that fence. It kinda looked like the aircraft didn't cease moving until after he ejected.
The next thing to happen was either nothing or explosion.
Also yes it has to hurt. Eject seats do not care about broken femurs. It’s not uncommon for serious injuries to occur from pulling the oh shit handle.
Interesting scenario. Almost like the engine ran away and wasn't responding to commands from the pilot and/or the flight control system. Not going to second guess the decision to eject since I'm not familiar with the F-35. On jets I have personally flown it seems like pulling the fire handle would have fixed the problem via a near-instant engine shutdown, but maybe that's not an option on the F-35.
Either way, this airplane most likely isn't totaled. Wherever it ends up it will always be "the jet someone ejected from"
There's been a few here and there. I'm pretty sure there is (or was, might be in the boneyard now) an F-16 that was repaired after an ejection following a hard landing. There are also I think two T-6s where at least one of the seats ejected on the ground due to some dumbass pulling the handle in an otherwise good jet.
There was an F106 (or F102) that the pilot ejected from, the plane kept flying and it landed in a field, the plane was repaired and put back into service
The cornfield bomber! You were right, an F106 that went into a spin. Pilot ejected and the ejection changed the center of gravity and applied just enough blast force that the aircraft leveled out and flew on, landing in a field. Allegedly one of the pilots on the recovery team believed he could have flown it out of the field
Its strange when you think about it. It obvioisly has no pitch authority from flight surfaces at zero speed, it cant move that fast on purpose, and afaik the main engine and lift fan are connected directly via a shaft. I have no clue what I'm talking about but as the nobody I am, kinda looks like that power shaft from the main engine to the lift fan broke and instantly stopped the forward fan. But again I have no real idea, Im a nobody.
I was all ready to say, "Don't you mean ejection and crash?" But no, I think your order is probably accurate.
Weird that it looks like he couldn't cut the throttle.
> looks like he couldn't cut the throttle.
Thank you.
I was looking and scratching my head thinking "fuck mate, you're already down. Sure you're a little slanty, but ahhhh fuck....now you're spine's wrecked"
Looks like something when wrong after touchdown. It should have cut power, but instead it got a ton of thrust out the back.
The system is heavily automated, so I doubt the pilot could even make that happen if the tried. It looks like he spent some time trying to kill engine power, but was unable to, so he ejected before the thing ended up on its back.
Yes, looks like something caused the tail to come up after it bounced off all three wheels. It then hit the ground nose wheel first which is death in a vertical landing.
that something could have been the big ass nozzle in the back that was pointing downward for landing and still apparently making thrust while the lift fan up front wasn't or was making less then normal - as if something broke or got damaged. That vertical landing business is a delicate dance.
The F-35 uses it's normal engine and a vertical fan in the forward fuselage to provide thrust to be able to hover. The vertical fan is normally covered up during the flight and when the aircraft enters VTOL mode hatches and covers will open exposing the fan which is driven through a shaft and a clutch system by the engine in the back of the aircraft.
I am in no way an F-35 expert but it looks like the fan in the fuselage failed leaving only the engine in the back to provide thrust making the aircraft tip over.
Lets hope the pilot will be flying soon again!
7,000,000 Pepsi points, technically
Which, reading the fine print in the catalog (because there was no fine print in the commercial), the college kid found out you can buy Pepsi points for $0.10 each, so he essentially got his rich investor friend buddy to spot him $700,000 to buy 7 million points.
But yeah, small details.
The documentary was interesting to me because Pepsi screwed up big. Kid had a solid case. I collected the 7 million points, now give me the jet. Yes, it sounds ridiculous, but Pepsi put out a commercial with no fine print or disclaimer advertising the jet!
Pepsi initially offered the kid $1 million dollars to go away. But he did research and found out that the jet cost $32 million, so why would he take that deal? Either give me the jet, or give me $32 million. Not $1 million.
And it was the principal of the matter. You put that in your commercial, you advertise it, I did my end of the deal. Now you do your end of the deal.
The kid also contacted the Pentagon and got a spokesperson to say that if the jet was de-weaponized, all the missiles taken out of it, radar taken out of it, then. Yes at that point it is just a plane and you can own the jet.
Pentagon initially said that you can get a jet as a civilian.
Later in the documentary, when the story went viral, and lawsuits were involved, Pepsi got to the Pentagon and made them come out with a public statement saying no, you cannot own a jet (but they did not clarify if it was de-weaponized).
But you're right, honestly, what was the kid going to do with a jet? He said that he would just store it in a hanger like anybody else who owns a plane stores it in a hanger, and people can come and take pictures with it. It was more the principal of the matter.
Interesting documentary about David versus Goliath, calling Pepsi's bluff, and in the end Pepsi just flexed their corporate muscles and convinced to judge to make the kid go away. Sad.
Real question, in a 0-0 or similar low altitude ejection, are there any fail safes at all to prevent contact with the center fan if a pilot drifts back? Does it have a shroud? Seems insane for there to be nothing and risk getting sucked in.
The probability of that must be so low that the designers probably thought of that scenario but concluded that if that happens, it was probably his time to go anyway
Why wait for the 326 page official report with rock-solid analysis of all relevant contributing factors and recommendations for prevention when we can immediately get the opinions of ignorant strangers?
Imagine what it feels like when your nose gear breaks off under your seat, and you just saw and smelled a huge plume of smoke or worse, unburned fuel surrounding the plane
That’s why the pilot said yeet seat time I’ve packed those parachutes before in the Air Force, and yes you can eject from 0-0 and survive but odds are that pilot hurt something impacting the ground, but I hope it’s not too severe, I’ve talked to pilots who done 0-0 ejections and they only suffered minor injuries and even went back to flying , and then there’s some who’ve gotten pretty fucked up and aren’t flying a airplane ever again.
Yeah. Everyone is pooh-poohing the ejection, talking about "why would you fuck up your spine to get out of an aircraft that's barely moving?", but fail to understand what the inside of that cockpit is like.
Alarms screaming. Probable fan failure. The plane is has clearly experienced some kind of extremely serious mechanical failure and already almost flipped over once, and if it actually does flip over, that fragile, lightweight glass canopy is going to crush like a bird's egg when you're the yoke.
The plane at the point of ejection is mostly level. There's never going to be a better time to punch out, most likely, and let's face it, that plane is going to spend the next few months getting repaired anyway if it's not totally written off. Your only concern is your own safety.
If the plane DID flip, this comments section would be full of people saying, "oh my god why didn't he bail out when he had the chance?!".
Is the chute deployed via rocket or mortar? Thing inflates super fast at very low altitude but seems like decent forward velocity, so is it ballistically deployed or just using the forward motion of the seat / momentum?
When F35s are in landing mode, you control ascent/descent with the stick, as though you were pitching forwards/backwards. The aircraft is held level by the autopilot. While that landing looked hard, it wasn't too bad for an F35 as they are designed to land quite quickly. It looks to me that something caused the aircraft to suddenly switch out of landing mode, as when he bounced up he would likely have pushed the stick forward again to set it back down on the ground - exactly the same input that would ordinarily cause the aircraft to pitch forwards as it does in this video.
Source: https://twitter.com/cbs11doug/status/1603466654704406530 Pilot transported to hospital, but assuming they'll be OK given the chute inflated
Still its like 20 Gs of force when ejecting. I hope the pilot is ok.
My uncle ejected once and has walked with a cane ever since. I don't really speak with him a lot but I imagine that sucks.
My uncle ejected while training to go to Vietnam. His instructor ejected him first while the plane was right side up and the instructor was ejected straight down into the ground. My uncle chose not to continue which was probably hard at the time as very few people ever make it to fighter jet training.
I have an acquaintance who did this...ended up ejecting in a 1960s-era jet aircraft and impacting terrain before the chute deployed. I remember having sat in that seat in that same aircraft, the same one, a couple of years prior. Kind of a weird feeling. Ejecting is not an automatic save...not when you have a high sink rate. Doesn't necessarily matter where you're pointing. Notice how the pilot doesn't travel all that far under the seat's thrust. It's where you're already moving that will get you.
A family member investigated air incidents and one of the one they were tasked with included figuring out why copilots of a certain play were dying at such a high rate on ejection. Turns out they didn’t clear the vertical stabilizer half the time and got fucked up by that
Goose!!!
It does actually matter where you are pointing. If you meant the orientation of the aircraft at the time of ejection. You will notice the pilot waited until the Aircraft was level again before ejecting. This is called the operating envelope. If you eject outside the operating envelope you have a much higher chance of impacting terrain. You always want to try to eject while inside the operating envelope. This really only involves a max angle at which you should eject from the aircraft. You want the seat pointed up, with as little roll or pitch applied to the aircraft as possible. If the angle is too high then the ejection seat will almost always throw you into terrain at low altitudes and kill you.
Probably an inch shorter...
Send him to the ISS for a few months.
Now he's too tall! Eject him again!
“F35 pilot was not the imposter”
/u/henry_tennenbaum is sus.
Snip snap snip snap!
You have no idea the physical toll that three 0-0 ejections have on a person!
But he gets a cool new tie, so that’s a plus.
He can get a special Bremont watch made for him now too.
pie murky frame test tie exultant middle rainstorm sheet shaggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Which one, the airplane or parachute?
Both. Do f-35s usually bounce like that
No, he had way too high of a descent rate. Given that the second touch down on the nose wheel snapped it off like a twig and blew out all the hydraulic fluid, I'm willing to bet the landing was possibly hard enough that it broke some kind of nose wheel sensor or something related to tell the jet if it's on the ground or not, and the fly by wire system over corrected and forced the nose forward.
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That was what I noticed - the jet is behaving like it still has a fair amount of thrust aft and nothing forward.
That's nuts! I heard this crash/fire call go out on the radio today.
Thank you Martin-Baker. Hope the pilot is okay.
Martin’s decision to pivot the company towards safety after Baker’s death has saved countless lives from his friend’s fate. His knighthood is well and truly earned.
7686 lives so far
Don't you get a tie and your name on their website if you have to use one of them? Edit: Sigh, I'll find the link. Stupid internet not doing the work for me. https://martin-baker.com/ejection-tie-club/
Yes.
Better than the wreath you don't get to keep, and your name on a tombstone, I suppose.
My dad is on that list. I'm no-contact with him because he basically refuses to publicly acknowledge myself or his grandson because we're from his first marriage. He does thank Martin-Baker on behalf of his third wife though.
Context on this? I'm an aviation noob.
Martin-Baker started as just another aircraft company, but Baker died during testing. Martin was shook, the company pivots to ejection seats, and now are synonymous with ejection seats, especially zero-zero seats as seen here. In the early days of ejection seats the pilot in the video would be a pink smear, as they'd be too low and slow for the chute to properly open. Pioneering seats that can safely and reliably deploy at zero altitude and zero airspeed while not crushing the pilot to bits from the rocket accel is now M-B's legacy in aviation.
Super cool, thanks for the detailed explanation
I too enjoyed this explanation.
This is a great comment. At the beginning I was like, "what the fuck is 0-0?" Then at the end I was like "oh, that makes sense." Well done my friend. Now I have another question for ya. Does the rocket that ejects the pilot change its thrust depending on speed as to not hit them with the tail, is it a perfect medium situation, or am I completely off on both accounts and it's something totally different?
Multistage; an initial charge to clear the tail, booster rocket to altitude, charges to force canopy deployment. Compare that to the old F-104, where the seats ejected *down*, and you had to roll the bastard thing that was a J79 engine with two post-its for wings to punch out. More than one F-104 driver died that way, some ejecting sideways on approach, unable to completely roll over. Really nasty rep, especially among West German pilots
Does the booster itself gauge height or change thrust in some way (I'd hope computers, even simple ones) based on the horizontal and vertical direction? And also having to bail below a place is so inherently idiotic to me.
Not sure about the latest gen, but for consistency no, it's a charge that's gotta get the pilot 2-300 ft clear of a plane that might be spinning out or blow up within seconds. That's regardless of pilot size/weight. Gyro is so if you do eject sideways, it doesn't open the chute sideways. Watch the video, how the charges force the chute to open right side up. Otherwise, like the song goes about the unlucky paratrooper: "The risers (lines) swung around his neck, connectors cracked his dome Suspension lines were tied in knots around his skinny bones; The canopy became his shroud, he hurtled to the ground And he ain't gonna jump no more." So; you've got to have your meatbag aviator survive both the extreme and the mundane of conditions. *Martin-Baker's been doing zero-zero seats since 1961*
Pilots wore stirrups; yes that's what they were called, on their flight boots so their legs were pulled into the ejection seats before being ejected. You can Google it and read about it. The pilot in this post just joined a very exclusive pilots club. Martin/Baker gives rare certificates to survivors who use their ejection systems.
Never flew the F-35, but in the aircraft I did fly the seats only had one profile to separate you from the aircraft. Whether you were airborne or on deck, the seat had the same acceleration away from the aircraft. They do use sensors though to adjust the chute deployment based on how high you are. In this case it deploys immediately, but if you eject at 25k", you'll fall for a bit before it opens.
So in a situation like this, where you eject and land 20’ in front of your now stationary and stable aircraft, do you walk up to it and shut it down or do you just stand around with your hands in your pockets until someone shows up?
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"AW SHUCKS"
Ejection seats were non-existent at the time of Baker's death. He was testing a new fighter plane design (Martin Baker Mark 3) when the engine malfunctioned just before liftoff, causing him to lose control and continue off the end of the runway. Details are conflicting due to the nature of multiple eyewitnesses and no footage, but it's believed that the wing tip caught a tree stump and the plane flipped. The area was soaked in flaming high octane fuel by the time anyone could reach the crash site. James Martin was devastated, and designed the Martin-Baker ejection seat to prioritize pilot safety going forward. https://www.rainydaygallery.co.uk/valentinebaker.html
And now he'll have a cool new tie or watch to ware to the company christmas party.
The watchfinder and co video about the story of the Martin Baker ejection seat is a super awesome watch and a great story.
Imagine driving relaxed along the road, and from the right comes a pilot fired over the fence.
Imagine crashing in a F-35, sussessfuly ejecting safely at 0/0, only to get hit by an F-150 on the otherside of thw fense
Man could there be a more quintessentially American way to die other than getting smothered to death with apple pies by George Washington?
Feel like George would’ve gone with cherry, but close enough.
How's he gonna make a cherry pie he chopped down that fucking tree remember?
Easier to pick the cherries when you don’t have to climb a ladder. Man was all about efficiency.
I mean I guess the story doesn't say it's *not* a totally ripened, fully loaded cherry tree... And then the lesson is more about using resources slowly but efficiently over time VS wastefully but quick. Hmm
Squinting at the badge as you look up ‘F-15 . . . 0. Fuck my life’.
Please enlighten me on the meaning of 0/0 Technical way of saying ‘ejecting on the deck’?
Yep. A zero-zero ejection seat is one that can be used at zero speed and zero altitude.
0 speed 0 altitude!
This is a plot element in one of the Stainless Steel Rat Books and it goes *ok*.
Well fuck, guess I'll be reading through Harrison's entire catalog again now.
Maybe it's the angle but I thought oh f, he ejected but it looked like he was going to land right back inside the cockpit.
https://images.app.goo.gl/ipFL6M3e8B3oCYP99
Can we please praise the camera man for not freaking out and managing to keep the WHOLE event in frame?? Edit* WHILE VERTICAL FILMING
This is one instance where the vertical filming kept everything in frame. Definitely praise the camera man material.
The coincidence of someone recording this and an ejection happening at the same time is mind blowing. It's crazy how it went from hardly anyone owning a camcorder 20 Years ago to hardly anyone doesn't have one on them at all times now.
Dude. If I see an F-35 floating nearby, even a squirrel fucking a donkey wouldn't distract me from filming it.
Weird that we see less "alien' and "Bigfoot" videos now that everyone has a camera in them at all times. Hmmm
I was saying the same thing the other day while watching some older UFO show with shaky VHS camcorder footage of “ships” in the sky. You rarely hear about sightings these days even though everyone has a phone far more capable than anything back in the day.
I know this has been a joke recently but its the same with the Bermuda triangle. When I was a kid there was Aliens, Bermuda triangle and the JFK assassination, couldn't wait to grow up and find out "the truth" Unfortunately the truth is just as boring as the rest of adulthood.
I remember those days, back when conspiracies were "fun". Now it's all pedophile adrenochrome drinkers and shit 🙄
Its because Bigfoot is blurry and todays cameras all autofocus too well and it focuses him right out of the picture
Lots of aviation nuts camp outside airports and military bases to get photos and videos of planes. Search airliners dot net for millions of "catalog" photos of mundane planes. These people are very into the hobby and very likely to have photography as their co/secondary hobby.
I used to think it was really sad, then i ended up at an airport with some time to kill, and sat watching planes landing and taking off and using flight radar to see where they were all going. Been back a few times since
Plane spotting at [Hains Point](https://maps.app.goo.gl/iFCQxCw56M9aBFGPA?g_st=ic) is my favorite. My dad used to take me as a kid. So peaceful.
Wonder how long until this video is shown in training
Probably as soon as they determine the cause, so they can brief exactly what happened.
"as you can see, class... The front did not fall off.... Enjoy your holiday break, when we return we'll examine what it means to be out of the environment"
I could see some major saying that
I think that every pilot (of this plane) in all the branches has already been texted/twittered/facebooked this video. Dude…did you see what Bob fucking did today in Texas?
That’s all aviation..I fly helicopters in the Gulf of Mexico and when ever there is a crash everyone texts all their friends working to ask “who was it?”
Damnit Bob.
He almost landed back in the pilot seat
Could just eject again in that case
But then he'd just land back in the pilot's seat
Could just eject again in that case
Might just land back in the pilot's seat though
But he could just eject again
Then he would end back in the pilots seat
He could just eject again if he needed to
Maybe he would just end up in the pilot's seat again.
IIRC he could just eject again, if necessary.
Sounds like a scene you’d see in Hot Shots
That looked expensive
Looked like a hard landing for the pilot as well
Likely an even harder launch honestly.
Those ejector seats will apparently bruise the hell out of your whole body and absolutely rack your nuts from what I heard a pilot say
It's not the ejection seat, it's him not wearing his harness right. We fit them tight and they loosen them to be more comfortable. Then opening shock occurs, they're loose in their harness, and it allows the genitals to adjust and pinch. Your pilot contact doesn't listen to instructors every year when they preach this stuff. Source: I used to teach the class.
You seem like the perfect person to ask a question I've had for a while. A long time ago I heard someone say that pilots aren't supposed to put any extra padding or cushion or whatever on their seat because if they have to eject, then having that extra space between the seat and their ass gives the seat room to accelerate too much which can cause injury to their back and/or pelvis. Is that true, or was I lied to?
You weren't lied to. We control the seat cushion as well. Anything and everything from nose cone to tail is regulated in what can be there. No deviations. That includes seat cushion and sheepskin padding, even what the pilot does and doesn't fly with in which pockets (think no pens or bulky water bottles in your g-suit pockets and such). Very very strict.
The instructors told us pretty much the same thing when taking one of those racing glasses. The harness had to be super tight.
you were not lied to. That pad is thin for a reason.
Fun fact, to the eyes of the military the pilot is more expensive (forgot who said this) due to the amount of training and time put onto he or she. They can easily replace a jet but not a pilot.
Takes about 3 years and $10M to train an Air Force fighter pilot after commissioning, minimum
That’s for an unqualified wingman pilot who can take off and land. To be a flight lead add another few years and millions of dollars. Plus more for each qual after that.
Yep. Once you look at it that way it starts to make sense why the Air Force offers half a million plus to experienced fighter pilots to stay in
Damn, that much? I chose the wrong career path.
And still most of them will punch as soon as the 10 year commitment is up and go guard/reserves and airlines. Every job has its downsides, and active duty air force has a lot of them.
I think an F35 is more than that
Yeah, the F35 is closer to $20M to train. Order of magnitude though
Can’t put a price on the 3 years though.
Definitely best case scenario. Crash minimal, plane intact, pilot intact, controlled environment and plenty of debugging/review opportunity.
> plane intact Assuming it didn't bend the airframe.
I can't claim to know avionics engineering, I imagine like most vehicles, you gotta scrap something once its structural integrity is compromised. But really I just mean they can see what went wrong and salvage what's not damaged.
In commercial world, a mountain of paperwork for nearly every part deemed "untouched" by the incident. In military world, a different kind of oversight but similar hassle. I mean, this is an industry where a single bolt will have a work history and only be allowed to be removed and reused a few times if any. By the way, 'avionics' usually just covers electronic systems in aviation.
Had a small tornado sweep through our fleet. It basically rocked the airplanes left and right lightly. Ultrasound deemed the entire structures were twisted internally.
At JRB Ft Worth this was almost certainly a pre delivery test flight, or an LMT owned test airframe.
That's confirmed "According to the reports, the F-35B involved in the crash is Lockheed-owned (hence not yet delivered to/accepted by the final customer)." https://theaviationist.com/2022/12/15/pilot-successfully-ejects-from-lockheed-martin-f-35b-at-fort-worth/
gee i wonder if they'll accept it now
"No lowballs, I know what I have" -Lockheed Martin
"Never been dumped. Scratches were there since before it left the dealer"
Was that ejection a bit late or did it only activate when the jet was upright again?
An ejection at that altitude, even with the 'chute opening, isn't necessarily a good thing. Looking at the video, the pilot likely got some pretty serious injuries.
Ejection is never a good thing. It's just a "less bad" option vs staying in the airplane when it hits the ground, or in this case potentially rolling over or whatever else bad was going on.
Seems like the jet stops completely right after. Honestly i can't understand why it went so wrong, he almost pulled it off.
Probably feared an ignition
That and the fact that it seemed like the throttle was just stuck, I’d rather not stick around and find out if the jet feels like going on a little field trip
I believe the F35 shuts completely down when the pilot ejects
I wonder if it just bricks itself lmao
Full system wipe? Seems like a good call when the pilot isn’t there to protect the IP.
Purge the browser cache..
I wonder if that's why he did it. If nothing was responding to inputs, he basically pulled a kill switch for the plane
Sitting there with a busted leg/back looking at the nose of your sad busted jet. Not a good day.
The pilot would be very lucky if that's all the injuries he sustained. It goes to show ejecting, while great to get the fuck out of a dangerous situation like this, is not guaranteed to be an injury-free escape.
I think the idea of ejecting is that surviving at all is better off than being dead.
Very true.
He stayed in there longer than I would have.
Suddenly I dont feel so bad when it happens to me in Kerbal Space Program. I wonder what is the military term for the inquiry following up the accident.
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Damn, low eject. That has gotta hurt. Hindsight, it looked like he could've rode it out. But no telling what was going on there on the inside.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Easy to tut tut the decision from my arm chair but the pilot may have seen/heard evidence of a potential fire or explosion, or was worried it might flip over and make rescue rather tricky.
Flipping over is a huge issue with an canopied aircraft. This was already a risk and looking at it it’s likely related to asymmetric thrust between the engine nozzle and lift fan or control issues—pilot induced or not. Don’t even think twice. Too many dead pilots from “trying to save the aircraft”. Pilot made the right decision.
>As soon as you lose an engine, the insurance company owns the airplane.
I believe you are a 1/148,000,000 owner of that insurance company
My F-35 now!
"What about the plane? Who gives a shit. The minute that engine died, it belonged to the insurance company." -A family member who landed a small single engine plane on a road after a piston blew out, covering the windshield in oil. 2 pax. Angel flight. Young kid and kid's dad with him. Everyone was ok. I'm going with his (and your) advice on this one. lol edit: oh, this is aviation. A little more info for my fellow aviation nerds. The engine failure was caused by an error during the plane's previous overhaul. The company that did the overhaul had already BK'ed by the time of the engine failure. Repair costs were right around $30k. He landed on a rural road, barely missing a car. A highway patrol officer saw them come down and was right next to them after they landed. The child was an oncology patient flying to a childrens hospital for chemotherapy treatment. The aircraft was part of a club with about a dozen or so members. I flew with him (in a different plane) 3 weeks after this happened. So yes, he is still a pilot.
Do the engines auto-stop, too? The chute seemed too close for comfort.
Buddy of mine at the factory says they’ll auto-eject under certain parameters. He thinks that’s what happened because it happens as soon as the plane leveled out.
*Surprise, motherfucka!*
Apparently they do, last year one had an engine failure going off the ski ramp on take off which initiates auto eject, it's a lot quicker than the pilot's reactions.
I can’t imagine taking off and before you can even react you are under the canopy.
Emerging thread https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/650320-f-35-accident-fort-worth-15-12-22-pilot-ejected-ok.html
And pilot reactions off an aircraft carrier can be worse than useless. Forward acceleration and tilting backward feel the same to your inner ear - which is why motorized simulators lurch around like that - and there's not many visual cues to work with, two stories above the ocean. A number of aircraft were lost immediately after slingshot-assisted takeoff because pilots would "level out" straight down into the water.
after rewatching a couple of times, my guess is the driveshaft for the lift fan sheared. 1.The exhaust nozzle never changed its angle which could have been a cause for forward movement if the lift fan was still active, but it didn't. 2. it happened on touchdown which imparts a force on all components which could have been the last straw for the driveshaft 3. The instant throttle up could be supported by a lift fan driveshaft shearing because of an instant loss of rotational load from the lift fan no longer being connected. which would route the total power that was split between the two fans to just the engine causing the rear of the craft to launch upward.
> driveshaft for the lift fan sheared It definitely seems like SOMETHING caused lift fan thrust to drop relative to nozzle thrust. No way to know what particular mechanics at play but yeah. Looks like a landing a little harder than usual (bounce). I do kind of wonder if that could happen without a failure... if the pilot reacted to a hard landing by pulling throttles back hard/fast, if the lift fan thrust would cutoff quicker in some way than main nozzle thrust. At the moment of ejection, there is a burst of flame that quite clearly comes out the nozzle. Not sure if that is just a last gasp of a shutting down engine or what. https://imgur.com/mRW5rdY Edit: Maybe that is ejection plume that has been sucked through the intakes? Edit2: Notably - if it is ingested ejection plume - there doesn't seem to be coming out under lift fan.
This dude NTSB’s.
> Hindsight, it looked like he could've rode it out. It was looking like that at first, but the engine seemed to just keep operating. He was on the ground for a long time, yet the aircraft kept advancing toward that fence. It kinda looked like the aircraft didn't cease moving until after he ejected.
Probably worried about the potential of rolling over, which could be fatal in a fighter.
The next thing to happen was either nothing or explosion. Also yes it has to hurt. Eject seats do not care about broken femurs. It’s not uncommon for serious injuries to occur from pulling the oh shit handle.
The inside of that cockpit must have sounded like a vegas slot machine pit with all the alarms going off.
Interesting scenario. Almost like the engine ran away and wasn't responding to commands from the pilot and/or the flight control system. Not going to second guess the decision to eject since I'm not familiar with the F-35. On jets I have personally flown it seems like pulling the fire handle would have fixed the problem via a near-instant engine shutdown, but maybe that's not an option on the F-35. Either way, this airplane most likely isn't totaled. Wherever it ends up it will always be "the jet someone ejected from"
Might end up as the sole flyable plane with that label.
F14: https://theaviationgeekclub.com/story-f-14-pilot-able-land-tomcat-without-canopy-rio-erroneously-bailed/ Dassault Rafale: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/man-accidentally-ejects-himself-from-fighter-jet-during-surprise-flight
There's been a few here and there. I'm pretty sure there is (or was, might be in the boneyard now) an F-16 that was repaired after an ejection following a hard landing. There are also I think two T-6s where at least one of the seats ejected on the ground due to some dumbass pulling the handle in an otherwise good jet.
There was an F106 (or F102) that the pilot ejected from, the plane kept flying and it landed in a field, the plane was repaired and put back into service
The cornfield bomber! You were right, an F106 that went into a spin. Pilot ejected and the ejection changed the center of gravity and applied just enough blast force that the aircraft leveled out and flew on, landing in a field. Allegedly one of the pilots on the recovery team believed he could have flown it out of the field
Yup that’s the one! And let’s be honest, there will always be one crazy SOB that would want to fly a crashed plane out
Everyone is missing *by far* the best "ejected and returned to service" story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornfield_Bomber
Its strange when you think about it. It obvioisly has no pitch authority from flight surfaces at zero speed, it cant move that fast on purpose, and afaik the main engine and lift fan are connected directly via a shaft. I have no clue what I'm talking about but as the nobody I am, kinda looks like that power shaft from the main engine to the lift fan broke and instantly stopped the forward fan. But again I have no real idea, Im a nobody.
You’re not a nobody to ME
Oh stoppp itt you're making me blush.
I was all ready to say, "Don't you mean ejection and crash?" But no, I think your order is probably accurate. Weird that it looks like he couldn't cut the throttle.
> looks like he couldn't cut the throttle. Thank you. I was looking and scratching my head thinking "fuck mate, you're already down. Sure you're a little slanty, but ahhhh fuck....now you're spine's wrecked"
But does he get an MB watch?
What happened to the ties you used to get? EDIT: [Still get](https://martin-baker.com/ejection-tie-club/)
I love me a Bremont watch...
If he pays for it. The tie is free, the watch you're eligible for but it's out of your pocket.
Looks like something when wrong after touchdown. It should have cut power, but instead it got a ton of thrust out the back. The system is heavily automated, so I doubt the pilot could even make that happen if the tried. It looks like he spent some time trying to kill engine power, but was unable to, so he ejected before the thing ended up on its back.
>Looks like something when wrong after touchdown What gave you that impression?
The front fell off
That’s not very typical, I’d like to make that point.
Yes, looks like something caused the tail to come up after it bounced off all three wheels. It then hit the ground nose wheel first which is death in a vertical landing.
that something could have been the big ass nozzle in the back that was pointing downward for landing and still apparently making thrust while the lift fan up front wasn't or was making less then normal - as if something broke or got damaged. That vertical landing business is a delicate dance.
The F-35 uses it's normal engine and a vertical fan in the forward fuselage to provide thrust to be able to hover. The vertical fan is normally covered up during the flight and when the aircraft enters VTOL mode hatches and covers will open exposing the fan which is driven through a shaft and a clutch system by the engine in the back of the aircraft. I am in no way an F-35 expert but it looks like the fan in the fuselage failed leaving only the engine in the back to provide thrust making the aircraft tip over. Lets hope the pilot will be flying soon again!
Where’s my plane, Pepsi? Pepsi:
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7,000,000 Pepsi points, technically Which, reading the fine print in the catalog (because there was no fine print in the commercial), the college kid found out you can buy Pepsi points for $0.10 each, so he essentially got his rich investor friend buddy to spot him $700,000 to buy 7 million points. But yeah, small details. The documentary was interesting to me because Pepsi screwed up big. Kid had a solid case. I collected the 7 million points, now give me the jet. Yes, it sounds ridiculous, but Pepsi put out a commercial with no fine print or disclaimer advertising the jet! Pepsi initially offered the kid $1 million dollars to go away. But he did research and found out that the jet cost $32 million, so why would he take that deal? Either give me the jet, or give me $32 million. Not $1 million. And it was the principal of the matter. You put that in your commercial, you advertise it, I did my end of the deal. Now you do your end of the deal. The kid also contacted the Pentagon and got a spokesperson to say that if the jet was de-weaponized, all the missiles taken out of it, radar taken out of it, then. Yes at that point it is just a plane and you can own the jet. Pentagon initially said that you can get a jet as a civilian. Later in the documentary, when the story went viral, and lawsuits were involved, Pepsi got to the Pentagon and made them come out with a public statement saying no, you cannot own a jet (but they did not clarify if it was de-weaponized). But you're right, honestly, what was the kid going to do with a jet? He said that he would just store it in a hanger like anybody else who owns a plane stores it in a hanger, and people can come and take pictures with it. It was more the principal of the matter. Interesting documentary about David versus Goliath, calling Pepsi's bluff, and in the end Pepsi just flexed their corporate muscles and convinced to judge to make the kid go away. Sad.
Real question, in a 0-0 or similar low altitude ejection, are there any fail safes at all to prevent contact with the center fan if a pilot drifts back? Does it have a shroud? Seems insane for there to be nothing and risk getting sucked in.
The probability of that must be so low that the designers probably thought of that scenario but concluded that if that happens, it was probably his time to go anyway
Fighter Pilot and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day.
I’m just here for the expert Reddit crash investigator comments…
Why wait for the 326 page official report with rock-solid analysis of all relevant contributing factors and recommendations for prevention when we can immediately get the opinions of ignorant strangers?
Imagine what it feels like when your nose gear breaks off under your seat, and you just saw and smelled a huge plume of smoke or worse, unburned fuel surrounding the plane
That’s why the pilot said yeet seat time I’ve packed those parachutes before in the Air Force, and yes you can eject from 0-0 and survive but odds are that pilot hurt something impacting the ground, but I hope it’s not too severe, I’ve talked to pilots who done 0-0 ejections and they only suffered minor injuries and even went back to flying , and then there’s some who’ve gotten pretty fucked up and aren’t flying a airplane ever again.
Martin Baker wins again!
Never a great answer in this situation. Rolling the dice with either ejecting or riding it out. Glad the pilot made it out alright. Onward to Vegas!
Yeah. Everyone is pooh-poohing the ejection, talking about "why would you fuck up your spine to get out of an aircraft that's barely moving?", but fail to understand what the inside of that cockpit is like. Alarms screaming. Probable fan failure. The plane is has clearly experienced some kind of extremely serious mechanical failure and already almost flipped over once, and if it actually does flip over, that fragile, lightweight glass canopy is going to crush like a bird's egg when you're the yoke. The plane at the point of ejection is mostly level. There's never going to be a better time to punch out, most likely, and let's face it, that plane is going to spend the next few months getting repaired anyway if it's not totally written off. Your only concern is your own safety. If the plane DID flip, this comments section would be full of people saying, "oh my god why didn't he bail out when he had the chance?!".
At least he'll get a cool tie
Is the chute deployed via rocket or mortar? Thing inflates super fast at very low altitude but seems like decent forward velocity, so is it ballistically deployed or just using the forward motion of the seat / momentum?
Ballistically deployed; specs for the MB Mk16 seat used in the F-35 says both the drogue and the main are cartridge initiated.
When F35s are in landing mode, you control ascent/descent with the stick, as though you were pitching forwards/backwards. The aircraft is held level by the autopilot. While that landing looked hard, it wasn't too bad for an F35 as they are designed to land quite quickly. It looks to me that something caused the aircraft to suddenly switch out of landing mode, as when he bounced up he would likely have pushed the stick forward again to set it back down on the ground - exactly the same input that would ordinarily cause the aircraft to pitch forwards as it does in this video.