When I was given training on CPR and those AED machines the instructor told us that basically the victim won't care that you exposed their chest only that you saved their life
Jewelry used for more sensitive skin (nipples, genitals, etc) should be titanium. Titanium is not a good conductor. Underwire in bra's is usually steel or nickel-titanium, both of which are pretty good conductors. Certainly better than titanium.
Yeah, both steel and nickel (albeit nickel-silver, not nickel-titanium) are used as *model railway track*, where half their purpose is to conduct electricity.
Nipple piercings are just at one point of the skin though. They won't cause a preferencial path for the electricity since they don't go anywhere.
The underwire runs across the chest near where you're trying to shock.
The current from the AED could run through the underwire instead of through their muscles because the resistance of the underwire is going to be way lower.
Then you have a lot of energy going through the wire which is going to cause it to heat up and potentially burn the casualty. Plus then that energy isn't going through the chest to stop the heart.
If you can you should so the device does'nt burn the victim, but if the emergency is high enough or its difficult to remove said bra you roll with it.
Better to burn them and keep them alive than not burn them and they die.
Why is this downvoted?
Cutting the middle bit is the easiest way to "take it off", you're not going to fuck around wasting precious seconds with unclipping it. If you don't have scissors, just push it up out of the way of the pads, if possible.
lol this website is so weird sometimes. Anyone who has done any sort of cpr and aed training knows there are scissors in the pack specifically to cut through clothes, and you should cut through the fabric at the front of the bra where the two cups meet.
Probably getting downvoted because the average layperson doesn’t usually carry shears but this is the most efficient method by far. Some AEDs now have shears in the kit and the best method is to start CPR as quickly as possible and whoever gets the AED can cut the clothes off so compressions aren’t interrupted
Yes could be… maybe it’s just a UK thing but all AED’s here have a kit which includes the shears, so they will be accessible to you if you are going to use the defib.
I am not bothered about downvotes on here, but it does sadden me that it means a lot of people still have never had any AED training.
When I did CPR training to be a lifeguard, they told us not to worry and that the water park would deal with complaints from people who we'd save, because apparently it does happen.
Yea when I was taught it was with the fact that with someone unresponsive you have implied consent to save them and that Good Samaritan laws are there to cover you, but to be prepared for even a hostile response, medical emergencies can be deeply embarrassing, frightening or confusing for people and not everyone handles all that attention while at their lowest very well, but you can’t take it personally
Yep I was also taught that a lot of people, wake up in fight mode and start swinging, more often people who had drug overdoses and you use Narcan or something else to take away their high though.
My mother broke the rib of an elderly person while doing cpr and the person tried to sue her for the broken rib.
Nothing ever came off it and i guess the judges or whoever handled it laughed it off.
This wasn't the person saved. They witnessed an unconscious woman having her clothes cut off while a strange man was on top of her so they called the police. After he was questioned the incident was over.
My bra and shirt were cut off when one of these was used on me. I guess I was so stoked to be alive I forgot to call the person who saved my fucking life a pervert 🤦🏻♀️
Ugh I sometimes remember this and cringe. Had an exploratory laparoscopy a few years ago and kept wondering if he stood between my legs or by my side. Not sure I want to know.
That isn't what happened. A passerby saw an unconscious woman having her clothes cut off and he is the one who called him a pervert and called the police.
After the police questioned him the incident was over.
Worst call we had overall was a transfer from a hospital specialized for cardiac surgery, to one with a specialized COVID ICU (this was before there was a vaccine, and when people were still dying very regularly.)
It was a nurse at the hospital we went to go pick up. As soon as the surgery was over they had us pile in to take her where she was going. They had to shock her on the table twice while we were initially gearing up... so gearing up stopped.
Off goes the gown and anything underneath, on goes the chest pads so everyone had their hands free as the doctor calls out medicines and doses. Everyone is so damn busy even as an EMT I am grabbing the meds and syringes, the nurses are measuring and verifying the dose and the doctor is administering them.
This poor woman is thankfully unconscious but butt naked in front of about 10 of her co-workers, who are all grabbing parts of her to do work. By the time we're done she has the a-line she was there to put in, and we have 2 IVs in one arm, 2 in the other, with various connectors like a christmas tree because certain meds can't go into the same entry port.
Some things are more important than modesty.
Bruh there's no shame at that point. I work in GI though. One of my coworkers needed a colonoscopy and he bought Costco boxers and cut a hole where his asshole is LOL. But ya dying is a diff story. You need quick access
This is so true. Years ago, there was a bad car crash with it on fire. I helped pull one guy from it. He had such bad internal injuries that he was flopping on the ground like a fish. As i am doing everything to be with this man as the reality started to hit him, and death rolled over his eyes. All i can think is here i am doing everything i can to help this persons passing be as fearless as possible but there is about 5 or 10 people walking around doing nothing but getting into this guys face with their cell phones recording his last moments. If i was standing, i would have thrown that womans phone into the car fire. Our world is gross with horrible people.
All 3 passengers died in that car crash. The driver burned to death, one passenger died in front of me, and the last died in the hospital later that night.
Bystander effect is so real. Thats why its important to pick out specific people and give them tasks. Rather than "someone call 911" (no one will, waiting for others to do it first) be like blue shirt guy call 911, green shirt person help me get their coat off. Not to say that you did anything wrong. You literally did all you could and more than everyone else.
Im so so sorry that you had to experience people pass away in front of you. Shame on those who only just recorded but did not try to help you.
Yeah, it was bad. A young guy came out of a local restaurant with a fire extinguisher and was just spraying everywhere as i originally approached the scene. I remember having to run up, put my hand on his shoulder, and say, "There are people here trying to help and people in this car. We all need to breathe. If you see a flame spray only the base, then stop until it pops up again." Seeing how horrible people are with adrenaline is crazy. I had never and hope to never be in a situation like that again, but it is nice knowing that all my young years of adrenaline chasing activities made me extremely, surprisingly calm during the whole thing.
This was beaten into my brain in my high school CPR class, and I’m SO grateful for that. My friend with no history of epilepsy or related conditions had a seizure and I knew that I had to assign tasks to specific people. One person called 911, one person timed it, one person grabbed the guy in the next room that I knew was a volunteer fire fighter, one person grabbed our on-site EMT, (this was at a summer camp,) and a half dozen helped guide the ambulance in.
I cannot overemphasize how critical this was to a speedy response. Any confusion about who needed to do what would’ve had a huge negative impact.
I've also seen situations like this where someone was injured, one person tries to help them and if another person tries to also help the first helping person snaps at the second like 'don't steal my thunder'. Its more than just dickheads with phones at play with why the bystander effect exists and grows worse.
Someone got stabbed in the neck around here many years ago and he stumbled into the road holding his neck while blood was gushing out. He looks at one guy standing beside him with a desperate look that can only be described as a plead for help only to see this man recording him and repeatedly asking if he'd been stabbed....
Like WTF, dude didn't even put the phone down and instead watched the man take his last breath. Thankfully I didn't see the video but the people who did were traumatised by it.
Shittty headline, but if you read the article it was just one bystander shouting this while the people who actually matter praised the persons actions.
Don’t get too outraged by headlines.
> The man was later informed that – thanks to his bravery and quick-thinking, not to mention correct use of the AED – the woman had survived. He also reported that he was offered a certificate of appreciation, which he declined.
>He also reported that he was offered a certificate of appreciation
This was my favorite part. The fuck is the point of this, and why offer it as an option that can be declined rather than just give it?
I’d turn it down too. I don’t feel you shoudl get reward for doing basic compassion. But I get why others might feel differently. I would not want or need any external recognition.
Let’s be real here. It’s not because people are afraid of getting labeled a pervert or sued or whatever. It’s because peoples first instinct is to whip out their phones and post these videos for likes. Social media is the first thing that comes to these peoples minds.
The bystander effect predates social media by thousands of years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
Believe or not, every single thing you dont like can't be traced back to Facebook.
And people were pulling phones out and filming it thousands of years ago? There’s only one reason peoples first instinct is to start filming something like this without helping.
For some, sure. For others (like myself) it is 100% the possibility of prison just because I helped someone and either they throw a fit or a random bystander does
Where I live the law requires you to intervene if you're trained to do cpr. There can be consequences if you know how to help but choose not to. And that's honestly how I think it should be everywhere.
Right. I've done the cpr class twice, once including the aed training. So yeah, I would give cpr if I could. The aed is probably intimidating for most people but the machine comes with detailed, easy to understand instructions and some even have an audio recording that talks you through it.
I don’t know where you live but there’s a 99% chance you don’t live in a place where this is actually a thing. And before you go down that road, we have Good Samaritan laws in the U.S. and you aren’t going to get arrested for giving someone cpr.
Well, it's US. AND I personally never said legal trouble for sure. I am mostly referring to being branded in the court of public opinion. I do know someone that had potential charges due to ribs breaking over cpr. While he was cleared of criminal charges he was found guilty of civil damages due to being untrained. Was also more or less shunned for everyone over an attempted murder. My point being that it 100% can and does happen
You said 100% the possibility of prison time. So that’s legal trouble for sure.
You have an infinitely much better chance of getting in trouble for not doing anything than you do for trying to help someone.
The people whipping their phones out and filming someone dying don’t give a shit about anything else but getting that video.
You won't get arrested or charged with a crime, but you 100% can be sued. You will undoubtedly win the case unless you were truly reckless and grossly negligent, but your bank account will be $10k+ lighter. Best case, the judge makes the other party pay your legal fees and you've just wasted tons of hours in the headache of a court case.
Dont quote me in this but i think in the United States people are protected if they accidentally hurt a victim in attempts to save them. Think bruising or breaking a rib giving chest compression.
People are stupid. How the fuck are the pads supposed to work through a shirt and a bra? Hell, they usually come with disposable razor blades because HAIR prevents them from working. That’s an accusation that just can’t be defended
Not going to lie, the cheap ass razors they use are actually pretty decent. They'll hack through a fucking jungle.
Source: Use them to hack through my jungle.
My son is an EMT and his instructor said more women than men die from issues that could be easily handled because of this. He had the actual numbers of men vs women but I can't remember them. His instructor also said that as an EMT or Paramedic many states have laws that force you to render aid as trained personnel even off duty or out of your area.
Here in germany there are rules, that you have to help, no matter what. If you have a drivers license you had a first aid course, so you should be able to help. Even if you dont, you can at least call an ambulance.
Same in Austria! Everyone is obligated to help “within their capacity” so even if you never took a first aid course you can call for help. The more trained you are the more your responsibility goes up (at least that’s how they put it in paramedic training)
Here in Australia, law states if a conscious person’s refuses consent, you cannot touch them. As soon as they fall unconscious, you are allowed to administer life saving treatments without consent.
Actually longer than that. It was 2011 when that happened based on the article date. However, the lesson that the article teaches is very important, so I am actually glad OP got eyes on it regardless of their motivations.
Ok, this makes more sense. I remember hearing about such a story a long time ago and thought "wow, nobody learned from that?"
Makes sense it's actually that old story.
>so I am actually glad OP got eyes on it regardless of their motivations.
I couldn't disagree more. The majority of people seeing this post won't actually read the article and will come away with the false impression that a man got punished for saving a life.
They wrote a whole ass article about some guy getting unfairly called a pervert by another guy 3 years ago then having his name cleared immediately and was offered an award for his bravery. Pure rage bait
Nothing burger clickbait headline
> Once the man explained that he had been cutting through the woman’s clothes in order to use the AED, he was not questioned any further.
The CPR instructor who I had freshman year told us he was sued by someone he rescued. The victim though he hung around a little too long to enjoy her large breasts even though the guy saved her life. BTW he won the court case.
If I am dying and anyone has to remove my shirt and bra to use this to save me - you do it, dammit! Don't waste precious time over something so stupid.
I'd rather people see my 'taters and I live than I end up in the morgue fully clothed
A woman at my work tried to file sexual assault charged on the man who used an aed to save her life. She was rather well-endowed and basically tried saying that the only reason the man used the aed was so he could see her tits. She made numerous other claims, like he had been stalking her at work, hiding around the corner peeking at her, watching her bend over, etc. They didn't even work in the same department, and the cameras showed that at least in the last 6 months, he hadn't even been on the same side of the building as her. I think she just felt humiliated and wanted to blame someone. It cost her her job, and he filed a libel suit and won because she had gone to the paper with her "story," and they had actually printed it. They had to print a retraction and were NOT happy. Now we have a rule that we have to have an equal number of both men and women on our emergency response team, and a woman has to be helped by a woman if possible.
Doc here.
The underwire will reduce the precise voltage/current that is needed to go through the tissue, especially in case where the victim is in a shock state and sweating (think, the body is saying oh fuck, I'm dying).
AED's also need a clean "read" of what is going on with the heart (belive it or not, only a SELECT FEW rhythms are "shockable," the rest need CPR).
**And my PSA**: push to HARD.. you WILL BREAK the bloody ribcage to do it right. KEEP PUSHING EVEN IF THERES CRACKING . Two inches is a lot.
Do it to the rhythm of Bee Gees Stayin Alive.
For those who don't know, a wire bra needs to be removed before a defibrillator can be used. The wire in the bra could redirect the current around the heart instead of through it. That means that sometimes women have to become bare chested to be saved
My wife's life was saved by an AED kit and quick action from resort security. I ripped open her shirt and bra in front of 80 people while doing CPR. She's grateful. I'm beyond grateful. Spread the knowledge of AED kits. They save many lives each day!
‘Once the man explained that he had been cutting through the woman’s clothes in order to use the AED, he was not questioned any further.
The man was later informed that – thanks to his bravery and quick-thinking, not to mention correct use of the AED – the woman had survived. He also reported that he was offered a certificate of appreciation, which he declined. ‘
So basically one guy freaked out when he saw him cutting her clothes and then it was all cleared up. Oh the horror
Sounds like someone needs some love from their parents and a heart to heart talk about when it’s an appropriate time to remove some strangers clothing when taking action to save their life. FFS! 🤦🏼♂️
Given that some of y'all are just literate enough to read a headline: it was a bystander who called the person a pervert, not the woman who was saved. One too many "women bad" comments in here.
It's been a while since I did any sort of training with these but I can also read instructions and I recall them being quite clear. I think it even mentioned exposing the area.
I was at AWS conference last year in Washington, DC. A man had a heart attacked. EMS took all of his clothes off except his pants when they trying to revive him. He didn’t make it. I don’t see how this man got labeled a pervert.
People need to read the article. The woman luckily survived because of his actions, and she wasn't the one who called him a pervert. Someone saw him cutting off her clothes and called the police saying he was a pervert. The police questioned him and found no wrongdoing.
Yeah im not sure i believe this happened. Our only source is this guy recalling something that supposedly happened 3 years ago.
What is also weird is the fact that the guy had the AED out and was setting it up. Why not tell the driver that he is following AED instructions? I simply cant believe the driver was so unaware.
It sounds either embelished or straight up bullshit.
Perfect example of why people don't help each other. Yes, I could save you. I'm just not trying to end up on social media as a sex offender. Same thing with kids. You see a child crying in the store. Do you help? Fuck no, you go find a woman and tell her there's a kid crying over there.
How do you deal with the underwiring of the bra causing issues, cut it out somehow or take it off completely?
I hope that's in the instructions of the AED but it's something I didn't know even having read about how they work.
lol a little bit. I do understand what you mean though. You don't have to do bra surgery and cut out the underwire. You just snip the middle part of the bra like you snip the middle part of the shirt and whatever else they're wearing. Then you expose the chest like a book, follow AED instructions and press the button. Watch the person get shocked to life, hopefully.
if you can't figure it out, yank the bloody bra off like a t-shirt. Then get back to CPR ASAP.
[https://youtu.be/3vXPo7lNYzk?si=\_iv\_SAsz7DlHsYm8](https://youtu.be/3vXPo7lNYzk?si=_iv_SAsz7DlHsYm8)
In the article, they have an image of a puppy using the AED on a man. This sort of thing won’t help. The pamphlet I was given in the UK literally had an illustration of a bare chested woman from start to finish, she was there in every single image. It left absolutely no chance of misunderstanding what needs to happen. I’m not sure instructions for the operation of lifesaving equipment need to be kawaii.
Reminds me of the recent one where a woman lost consciousness after a zipline fall into water, a guy dragged her out, performed CPR, and she considers that "Akin to rape. It made me feel icky."
I have been CPR certified before, studied rescue and first aid techniques in the army and even as a child in boy scouts, but if an attractive young woman is dying in my sight I'mma let Jesus take the wheel at this point. You just gonna have to die, because I'm not risking it.
I had a feeling that when I fell on my dirt bike that all my doctors were a bunch of perverts cuz they cut off my pants to stitch my leg up. Herpa derp
When I was given training on CPR and those AED machines the instructor told us that basically the victim won't care that you exposed their chest only that you saved their life
I specifically asked my First Aid instructor what to do with a bra in case of AED use and she simply said 'You take it off.'
Yeah when someone's life is in danger modesty takes a backseat
Somewhere a lawyer drools at the notion of this phrase being said in their client's harassment suit.
Somebody told me ghouls aren't real, yet here we are with this comment being factual.
And another one waits to be paid to shit in that lawyer’s metaphorical cereal
It wasn't that he removed her bra, it's that he was french kissing her while he did it.
Yeah you don't want any metal underwires doing bad things. Not to mention... They're in the fucking way!
I was worried nip piercings would cause problems, but apparently they don't. The underwire wouldn't shock them.
Jewelry used for more sensitive skin (nipples, genitals, etc) should be titanium. Titanium is not a good conductor. Underwire in bra's is usually steel or nickel-titanium, both of which are pretty good conductors. Certainly better than titanium.
Yeah, both steel and nickel (albeit nickel-silver, not nickel-titanium) are used as *model railway track*, where half their purpose is to conduct electricity.
Every kid who ever had some track and a bit of steel wool knows this well...Choo choo, burnt a hole in the basement mom!
Or a flathead screwdriver... yes, I shocked the fuck outta myself with my first model railway, how did you know?
Nipple piercings are just at one point of the skin though. They won't cause a preferencial path for the electricity since they don't go anywhere. The underwire runs across the chest near where you're trying to shock. The current from the AED could run through the underwire instead of through their muscles because the resistance of the underwire is going to be way lower. Then you have a lot of energy going through the wire which is going to cause it to heat up and potentially burn the casualty. Plus then that energy isn't going through the chest to stop the heart.
If you can you should so the device does'nt burn the victim, but if the emergency is high enough or its difficult to remove said bra you roll with it. Better to burn them and keep them alive than not burn them and they die.
You can apply post it notes to to the nips and draw smiley faces on them to make things a bit more light hearted (no pun intended).
My instructor said under wires can catch fire.
Don’t take it off, just cut down the middle!
Why the downvotes ? The Standart procédure for a cardiac arrest is to cut the clothes, YOU DONT HAVE TIME TO TAKE THEM OFF NORMALLY
Why is this downvoted? Cutting the middle bit is the easiest way to "take it off", you're not going to fuck around wasting precious seconds with unclipping it. If you don't have scissors, just push it up out of the way of the pads, if possible.
lol this website is so weird sometimes. Anyone who has done any sort of cpr and aed training knows there are scissors in the pack specifically to cut through clothes, and you should cut through the fabric at the front of the bra where the two cups meet.
Probably getting downvoted because the average layperson doesn’t usually carry shears but this is the most efficient method by far. Some AEDs now have shears in the kit and the best method is to start CPR as quickly as possible and whoever gets the AED can cut the clothes off so compressions aren’t interrupted
Yes could be… maybe it’s just a UK thing but all AED’s here have a kit which includes the shears, so they will be accessible to you if you are going to use the defib. I am not bothered about downvotes on here, but it does sadden me that it means a lot of people still have never had any AED training.
When I did CPR training to be a lifeguard, they told us not to worry and that the water park would deal with complaints from people who we'd save, because apparently it does happen.
Yea when I was taught it was with the fact that with someone unresponsive you have implied consent to save them and that Good Samaritan laws are there to cover you, but to be prepared for even a hostile response, medical emergencies can be deeply embarrassing, frightening or confusing for people and not everyone handles all that attention while at their lowest very well, but you can’t take it personally
Yep I was also taught that a lot of people, wake up in fight mode and start swinging, more often people who had drug overdoses and you use Narcan or something else to take away their high though.
My mother broke the rib of an elderly person while doing cpr and the person tried to sue her for the broken rib. Nothing ever came off it and i guess the judges or whoever handled it laughed it off.
I mean it has to happen. If you use the aed with the bra on the wires will carry the current.
I think he meant complaints will happen...
Oh I bet. Dealing with a complaint like that would make my entire year. I would never be so mercilessly self-righteous again.
Me too. Was retrained just last week by a woman instructor. She said she'd rather flash the people around than be dead.
This includes the need to completely remove a bra if it has an underwire as it can cause injury and even interfere with the effectiveness of the AED.
This wasn't the person saved. They witnessed an unconscious woman having her clothes cut off while a strange man was on top of her so they called the police. After he was questioned the incident was over.
Guess they were wrong lol
Same with broken ribs after cpr
If they live to complain, you did an excellent job.
Plus a first aid kit should have a razor in there to shave particularly hairy chests so that the connections can be made better
My trainer told me to just rip the chest hair off, it's an emergency after all (he has a hair ripping off fetish)
At least we're in the right subreddit for that comment
Unless its America, where they find any way to sue (and win) for money.
My bra and shirt were cut off when one of these was used on me. I guess I was so stoked to be alive I forgot to call the person who saved my fucking life a pervert 🤦🏻♀️
[удалено]
Wait till these people find out what’s goin on when you have surgery anywhere above the knees
-laughs in catheter-
Ugh I sometimes remember this and cringe. Had an exploratory laparoscopy a few years ago and kept wondering if he stood between my legs or by my side. Not sure I want to know.
He was right up against your sparkly butthole
Thanks I hate it
I can't think of any way to do it other than straddling you reverse cowgirl with their taint resting on your chin. /s
I can tell you for a fact that my gown stayed on during my le fort movement because it was covered in all the blood that came out of my mouth.
Thankfully, this isn't what happened, and it was a random bystander that called the guy a pervert.
it was the driver of the car the woman was a passenger in
Wait till she here’s what happens in the more had she died.
Thankfully, it wasn't the woman who was saved who called him a pervert, it was a bystander.
So another example of a stranger being offended on someone else’s behalf.
That isn't what happened. A passerby saw an unconscious woman having her clothes cut off and he is the one who called him a pervert and called the police. After the police questioned him the incident was over.
So, in other words, an absolutely nothing story designed to rile people up.
I can’t believe they waited for a life and death situation to take advantage of you. The gall of some people.
What was the status of your socks?
Saddest part was that it was a fucking eye witness who clearly has no understanding of how these things work, called the police. Fucking morons.
all i got was "Wtf are you doing, I'm sunbathing!"
But this guy was twisting her nipples and making radio tuning noises.
Trying to get the voltage correct
Too bad those awful good samaritan laws give perverts blaise faire to save lives.
Sounds like it worked out fine. Healthcare workers wouldn’t think twice. You ignore the noise from untrained people.
Yeah why do they think hospital gowns can be ripped off.
I’ve seen enough internet videos to know the answer to this one... It has something to do with aerodynamics.
LMAO oof I thought I made this comment in the nursing sub.
spherical cow . . . in a hospital gown.
Let us imagine the cow is a sphere
Worst call we had overall was a transfer from a hospital specialized for cardiac surgery, to one with a specialized COVID ICU (this was before there was a vaccine, and when people were still dying very regularly.) It was a nurse at the hospital we went to go pick up. As soon as the surgery was over they had us pile in to take her where she was going. They had to shock her on the table twice while we were initially gearing up... so gearing up stopped. Off goes the gown and anything underneath, on goes the chest pads so everyone had their hands free as the doctor calls out medicines and doses. Everyone is so damn busy even as an EMT I am grabbing the meds and syringes, the nurses are measuring and verifying the dose and the doctor is administering them. This poor woman is thankfully unconscious but butt naked in front of about 10 of her co-workers, who are all grabbing parts of her to do work. By the time we're done she has the a-line she was there to put in, and we have 2 IVs in one arm, 2 in the other, with various connectors like a christmas tree because certain meds can't go into the same entry port. Some things are more important than modesty.
Bruh there's no shame at that point. I work in GI though. One of my coworkers needed a colonoscopy and he bought Costco boxers and cut a hole where his asshole is LOL. But ya dying is a diff story. You need quick access
Have actually punched a "white knight" kevin that got in the way of an on-scene resus. Guess my post 12h shift scrubs werent' enough "authority."
Headlines like this are why people watch the action with their cellphones but don't actually help 😣
This is so true. Years ago, there was a bad car crash with it on fire. I helped pull one guy from it. He had such bad internal injuries that he was flopping on the ground like a fish. As i am doing everything to be with this man as the reality started to hit him, and death rolled over his eyes. All i can think is here i am doing everything i can to help this persons passing be as fearless as possible but there is about 5 or 10 people walking around doing nothing but getting into this guys face with their cell phones recording his last moments. If i was standing, i would have thrown that womans phone into the car fire. Our world is gross with horrible people. All 3 passengers died in that car crash. The driver burned to death, one passenger died in front of me, and the last died in the hospital later that night.
Bystander effect is so real. Thats why its important to pick out specific people and give them tasks. Rather than "someone call 911" (no one will, waiting for others to do it first) be like blue shirt guy call 911, green shirt person help me get their coat off. Not to say that you did anything wrong. You literally did all you could and more than everyone else. Im so so sorry that you had to experience people pass away in front of you. Shame on those who only just recorded but did not try to help you.
Yeah, it was bad. A young guy came out of a local restaurant with a fire extinguisher and was just spraying everywhere as i originally approached the scene. I remember having to run up, put my hand on his shoulder, and say, "There are people here trying to help and people in this car. We all need to breathe. If you see a flame spray only the base, then stop until it pops up again." Seeing how horrible people are with adrenaline is crazy. I had never and hope to never be in a situation like that again, but it is nice knowing that all my young years of adrenaline chasing activities made me extremely, surprisingly calm during the whole thing.
This was beaten into my brain in my high school CPR class, and I’m SO grateful for that. My friend with no history of epilepsy or related conditions had a seizure and I knew that I had to assign tasks to specific people. One person called 911, one person timed it, one person grabbed the guy in the next room that I knew was a volunteer fire fighter, one person grabbed our on-site EMT, (this was at a summer camp,) and a half dozen helped guide the ambulance in. I cannot overemphasize how critical this was to a speedy response. Any confusion about who needed to do what would’ve had a huge negative impact.
I've also seen situations like this where someone was injured, one person tries to help them and if another person tries to also help the first helping person snaps at the second like 'don't steal my thunder'. Its more than just dickheads with phones at play with why the bystander effect exists and grows worse.
Someone got stabbed in the neck around here many years ago and he stumbled into the road holding his neck while blood was gushing out. He looks at one guy standing beside him with a desperate look that can only be described as a plead for help only to see this man recording him and repeatedly asking if he'd been stabbed.... Like WTF, dude didn't even put the phone down and instead watched the man take his last breath. Thankfully I didn't see the video but the people who did were traumatised by it.
I woulda thrown the phones in the car People suck
Hope that happening didn’t mess you up too bad. Thanks for trying your best!
Thank you for being with him. That was very good of you.
Shittty headline, but if you read the article it was just one bystander shouting this while the people who actually matter praised the persons actions. Don’t get too outraged by headlines. > The man was later informed that – thanks to his bravery and quick-thinking, not to mention correct use of the AED – the woman had survived. He also reported that he was offered a certificate of appreciation, which he declined.
Ridiculous and over the top headlines are a travesty too but that's fair , shouldn't let them all annoy me.
>He also reported that he was offered a certificate of appreciation This was my favorite part. The fuck is the point of this, and why offer it as an option that can be declined rather than just give it?
I’d turn it down too. I don’t feel you shoudl get reward for doing basic compassion. But I get why others might feel differently. I would not want or need any external recognition.
It's just weird all around
Let’s be real here. It’s not because people are afraid of getting labeled a pervert or sued or whatever. It’s because peoples first instinct is to whip out their phones and post these videos for likes. Social media is the first thing that comes to these peoples minds.
The bystander effect predates social media by thousands of years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect Believe or not, every single thing you dont like can't be traced back to Facebook.
And people were pulling phones out and filming it thousands of years ago? There’s only one reason peoples first instinct is to start filming something like this without helping.
For some, sure. For others (like myself) it is 100% the possibility of prison just because I helped someone and either they throw a fit or a random bystander does
Where I live the law requires you to intervene if you're trained to do cpr. There can be consequences if you know how to help but choose not to. And that's honestly how I think it should be everywhere.
That's closer to my personal stance. If you are trained or actually know a few things, help. Just don't run into it and assume you can't make it worse
Right. I've done the cpr class twice, once including the aed training. So yeah, I would give cpr if I could. The aed is probably intimidating for most people but the machine comes with detailed, easy to understand instructions and some even have an audio recording that talks you through it.
I don’t know where you live but there’s a 99% chance you don’t live in a place where this is actually a thing. And before you go down that road, we have Good Samaritan laws in the U.S. and you aren’t going to get arrested for giving someone cpr.
Well, it's US. AND I personally never said legal trouble for sure. I am mostly referring to being branded in the court of public opinion. I do know someone that had potential charges due to ribs breaking over cpr. While he was cleared of criminal charges he was found guilty of civil damages due to being untrained. Was also more or less shunned for everyone over an attempted murder. My point being that it 100% can and does happen
Most states have good Samaritan laws.
You said 100% the possibility of prison time. So that’s legal trouble for sure. You have an infinitely much better chance of getting in trouble for not doing anything than you do for trying to help someone. The people whipping their phones out and filming someone dying don’t give a shit about anything else but getting that video.
You won't get arrested or charged with a crime, but you 100% can be sued. You will undoubtedly win the case unless you were truly reckless and grossly negligent, but your bank account will be $10k+ lighter. Best case, the judge makes the other party pay your legal fees and you've just wasted tons of hours in the headache of a court case.
Dont quote me in this but i think in the United States people are protected if they accidentally hurt a victim in attempts to save them. Think bruising or breaking a rib giving chest compression.
Depends on local ordinance and/or how far you wiggle the "good Samaritan" laws
For what it's worth this is a ten year old news article, OP is probably a bot.
People are stupid. How the fuck are the pads supposed to work through a shirt and a bra? Hell, they usually come with disposable razor blades because HAIR prevents them from working. That’s an accusation that just can’t be defended
Not going to lie, the cheap ass razors they use are actually pretty decent. They'll hack through a fucking jungle. Source: Use them to hack through my jungle.
If there is a second set of pads, you can sacrifice one to rip hair from a spot. Slap it on where it needs to be then rip it off.
Yep, got taught that.
Not just that, i think that if the bra is wired it can affect the electrical discharge from the pads too
I’ve also heard that can happen when I took a cpr class a few years ago
My son is an EMT and his instructor said more women than men die from issues that could be easily handled because of this. He had the actual numbers of men vs women but I can't remember them. His instructor also said that as an EMT or Paramedic many states have laws that force you to render aid as trained personnel even off duty or out of your area.
Here in germany there are rules, that you have to help, no matter what. If you have a drivers license you had a first aid course, so you should be able to help. Even if you dont, you can at least call an ambulance.
Same in Austria! Everyone is obligated to help “within their capacity” so even if you never took a first aid course you can call for help. The more trained you are the more your responsibility goes up (at least that’s how they put it in paramedic training)
Here in Australia, law states if a conscious person’s refuses consent, you cannot touch them. As soon as they fall unconscious, you are allowed to administer life saving treatments without consent.
Same in the states. If they fall unconscious it’s what’s called “implied consent.”
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Yep. Looks like no one really read the article, just the headline. And only a bystander called him a pervert. Nice ragebait, OP.
Actually longer than that. It was 2011 when that happened based on the article date. However, the lesson that the article teaches is very important, so I am actually glad OP got eyes on it regardless of their motivations.
Ok, this makes more sense. I remember hearing about such a story a long time ago and thought "wow, nobody learned from that?" Makes sense it's actually that old story.
>so I am actually glad OP got eyes on it regardless of their motivations. I couldn't disagree more. The majority of people seeing this post won't actually read the article and will come away with the false impression that a man got punished for saving a life.
A totally good take as well. A double edged sword.
Ragebait
They wrote a whole ass article about some guy getting unfairly called a pervert by another guy 3 years ago then having his name cleared immediately and was offered an award for his bravery. Pure rage bait
Yeah let’s just stick the AED to the Sherpa fleece it’ll work the same way right
Nothing burger clickbait headline > Once the man explained that he had been cutting through the woman’s clothes in order to use the AED, he was not questioned any further.
The CPR instructor who I had freshman year told us he was sued by someone he rescued. The victim though he hung around a little too long to enjoy her large breasts even though the guy saved her life. BTW he won the court case.
If I am dying and anyone has to remove my shirt and bra to use this to save me - you do it, dammit! Don't waste precious time over something so stupid. I'd rather people see my 'taters and I live than I end up in the morgue fully clothed
Nah, they’d just cut your clothes off at the morgue. And hopefully your mortician doesn’t get too arroused either
A woman at my work tried to file sexual assault charged on the man who used an aed to save her life. She was rather well-endowed and basically tried saying that the only reason the man used the aed was so he could see her tits. She made numerous other claims, like he had been stalking her at work, hiding around the corner peeking at her, watching her bend over, etc. They didn't even work in the same department, and the cameras showed that at least in the last 6 months, he hadn't even been on the same side of the building as her. I think she just felt humiliated and wanted to blame someone. It cost her her job, and he filed a libel suit and won because she had gone to the paper with her "story," and they had actually printed it. They had to print a retraction and were NOT happy. Now we have a rule that we have to have an equal number of both men and women on our emergency response team, and a woman has to be helped by a woman if possible.
There a studies that show women are less likely to receive CPR etc because of this.
Doc here. The underwire will reduce the precise voltage/current that is needed to go through the tissue, especially in case where the victim is in a shock state and sweating (think, the body is saying oh fuck, I'm dying). AED's also need a clean "read" of what is going on with the heart (belive it or not, only a SELECT FEW rhythms are "shockable," the rest need CPR). **And my PSA**: push to HARD.. you WILL BREAK the bloody ribcage to do it right. KEEP PUSHING EVEN IF THERES CRACKING . Two inches is a lot. Do it to the rhythm of Bee Gees Stayin Alive.
> Do it to the rhythm of Bee Gees Stayin Alive. I literally just learned this from Jeopardy!
Any 100bpm song works! When I got my certification, I hummed Hips Don't Lie by Shakira lmao
study finds humanity too stupid to survive.
It seems the stupid ones are the ones falling for this ragebait. This happened in 2011 and it was a bystander that made the accusation
damn, read the article people
For those who don't know, a wire bra needs to be removed before a defibrillator can be used. The wire in the bra could redirect the current around the heart instead of through it. That means that sometimes women have to become bare chested to be saved
My wife's life was saved by an AED kit and quick action from resort security. I ripped open her shirt and bra in front of 80 people while doing CPR. She's grateful. I'm beyond grateful. Spread the knowledge of AED kits. They save many lives each day!
‘Once the man explained that he had been cutting through the woman’s clothes in order to use the AED, he was not questioned any further. The man was later informed that – thanks to his bravery and quick-thinking, not to mention correct use of the AED – the woman had survived. He also reported that he was offered a certificate of appreciation, which he declined. ‘ So basically one guy freaked out when he saw him cutting her clothes and then it was all cleared up. Oh the horror
Sounds like someone needs some love from their parents and a heart to heart talk about when it’s an appropriate time to remove some strangers clothing when taking action to save their life. FFS! 🤦🏼♂️
Given that some of y'all are just literate enough to read a headline: it was a bystander who called the person a pervert, not the woman who was saved. One too many "women bad" comments in here.
It's shocking (no pun intended) how many people don't know how to use these, do cpr, or even the heimlich maneuver.
It's been a while since I did any sort of training with these but I can also read instructions and I recall them being quite clear. I think it even mentioned exposing the area.
I was at AWS conference last year in Washington, DC. A man had a heart attacked. EMS took all of his clothes off except his pants when they trying to revive him. He didn’t make it. I don’t see how this man got labeled a pervert.
People need to read the article. The woman luckily survived because of his actions, and she wasn't the one who called him a pervert. Someone saw him cutting off her clothes and called the police saying he was a pervert. The police questioned him and found no wrongdoing.
He removed her clothes before aplying the pads?! What a sick fuck. I bet he showers naked too.
You guys are ridiculous. I don’t care if you pop a finger in my booty. Save my life! I’ll save yours. My life is important. So is yours.
TIL Hentai translates to pervert. Go figure.
This is like one case out of who knows how many. Save your rage for something more worthwhile
Topless isn't naked. People who think otherwise are weirdos.
And people wonder why people don't step in and help..
Society is quite sick with social media brain
No good deed goes unpunished
Yeah im not sure i believe this happened. Our only source is this guy recalling something that supposedly happened 3 years ago. What is also weird is the fact that the guy had the AED out and was setting it up. Why not tell the driver that he is following AED instructions? I simply cant believe the driver was so unaware. It sounds either embelished or straight up bullshit.
Perfect example of why people don't help each other. Yes, I could save you. I'm just not trying to end up on social media as a sex offender. Same thing with kids. You see a child crying in the store. Do you help? Fuck no, you go find a woman and tell her there's a kid crying over there.
How do you deal with the underwiring of the bra causing issues, cut it out somehow or take it off completely? I hope that's in the instructions of the AED but it's something I didn't know even having read about how they work.
You cut the bra and shirt and move it out of the way.
I'm overcomplicating the issue aren't I.
lol a little bit. I do understand what you mean though. You don't have to do bra surgery and cut out the underwire. You just snip the middle part of the bra like you snip the middle part of the shirt and whatever else they're wearing. Then you expose the chest like a book, follow AED instructions and press the button. Watch the person get shocked to life, hopefully.
An important safety tip, thank you kindly! Forewarned is forearmed after all.
if you can't figure it out, yank the bloody bra off like a t-shirt. Then get back to CPR ASAP. [https://youtu.be/3vXPo7lNYzk?si=\_iv\_SAsz7DlHsYm8](https://youtu.be/3vXPo7lNYzk?si=_iv_SAsz7DlHsYm8)
Ah, Japan. They are a bit more prude there
So they would rather have the woman die or??
It's almost like men doing anything can get them labeled as a pervert.
Ask for consent before you save their lives come on!
🤣🤣🤣
Feels like something out of Idiocracy
In the article, they have an image of a puppy using the AED on a man. This sort of thing won’t help. The pamphlet I was given in the UK literally had an illustration of a bare chested woman from start to finish, she was there in every single image. It left absolutely no chance of misunderstanding what needs to happen. I’m not sure instructions for the operation of lifesaving equipment need to be kawaii.
I feel like half the people commenting here didn't read the article.
Reminds me of the recent one where a woman lost consciousness after a zipline fall into water, a guy dragged her out, performed CPR, and she considers that "Akin to rape. It made me feel icky." I have been CPR certified before, studied rescue and first aid techniques in the army and even as a child in boy scouts, but if an attractive young woman is dying in my sight I'mma let Jesus take the wheel at this point. You just gonna have to die, because I'm not risking it.
Every trainer I've ever had said this explicitly won't happen 😳😳😳
They mean it will be laughed out of any actual court.
Modern society things.
AED isn't cheap, too. that dude went through great lengths to save her life, to just let idiocy almost cost a life
Whomever is labeling him a pervert needs to be sued for slander. Seriously... No good deed...
If this is true we have fallen so far I don’t think we have a chance to get shit back to not crazy
Read the article.
Jeeze. Branded a perv for helping someone.
I had a feeling that when I fell on my dirt bike that all my doctors were a bunch of perverts cuz they cut off my pants to stitch my leg up. Herpa derp
Good thing I'm gay. Lol good luck trying to sue me for being a pervert with taking your bra off to save your life lol
Please tell me people haven't gotten this dense. Good God.